NationStates Jolt Archive

Why We Fight: A short film on the Military Industrial Complex

Our nation has become the massive military spending engine Ike predicted years ago
View the trailer: http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/
Why We Fight' is an unflinching look at the military industrial complex and the rise of the American Empire. Inspired by Dwight Eisenhower's legendary farewell speech (in which he coined the phrase "military industrial complex"), the film surveys the scorched landscape of a half-century's military adventures, asking how -- and telling why -- a nation of, by, and for the people has become the savings-and-loan of a system whose survival depends on a state of constant war. The film moves beyond the headlines of various American military operations to the deeper questions of why -- why does America fight? What are the forces -- political, economic and ideological -- that drive us to fight against an ever-changing enemy?
Review: http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/movie/_/id/6823996/rid/9166284/?rnd=1142043438317&has-player=unknown

LOLOLOL look at me I'm another group-mentality anti-Bush n00b r3publicans are de eeebil!11! boo capitalism
:fluffle: :confused: :eek: :mad: :rolleyes: :upyours: :headbang: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:


Okay, now the real message:
Yea, the whole anti-Bush thing is getting old

What are the forces -- political, economic and ideological -- that drive us to fight against an ever-changing enemy?

Money. Power. You know, the two Republican values. :p

LOLOLOL look at me I'm another group-mentality anti-Bush n00b r3publicans are de eeebil!11! boo capitalism
:fluffle: :confused: :eek: :mad: :rolleyes: :upyours: :headbang: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:


Okay, now the real message:
Yea, the whole anti-Bush thing is getting old
Its not too late to come into the Light--Join the Revolution embrace Planetary survival

Okay, now the real message:
Yea, the whole anti-Bush thing is getting old
since when does this (http://www.dubyaspeak.com/freshdubya.phtml) get old? It's kept me entertained for over five tense years.

Its not too late to come into the Light--Join the Revolution embrace Planetary survival


YAWN*** The whole planetary survival bit is getting old too. The Earth changes with or without human's. Get used to it.;)

Its not too late to come into the Light--Join the Revolution embrace Planetary survival
:rolleyes:

since when does this get old? It's kept me entertained for over five tense years.
Oh, I still get a good laugh out of Bush, but the 'lol bush suxxors' thing is kinda old

Okay, now the real message:
Yea, the whole anti-Bush thing is getting old

You can't deny that the military is a really big sinkhole for money in the US at the moment.

:rolleyes:


Oh, I still get a good laugh out of Bush, but the 'lol bush suxxors' thing is kinda old
ah, yeah. That is true indeed.

YAWN*** The whole planetary survival bit is getting old too. The Earth changes with or without human's. Get used to it.;)
if humans cant affect the planet AT ALL then how do you explain pollution?

You can't deny that the military is a really big sinkhole for money in the US at the moment.

The Military according to this website is roughly 1/3 of the US budget.

http://natprior.org/auxiliary/somePdfs/taxday2005sources.pdf

if humans cant affect the planet AT ALL then how do you explain pollution?
A liberal lie made up by Teddy Roosevelt so he could further hunt rhinos in national parks.

The Military according to this website is roughly 1/3 of the US budget.

http://natprior.org/auxiliary/somePdfs/taxday2005sources.pdf
Yup. This is big the sinkhole.

http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182
whoa, the same site...:eek:

if humans cant affect the planet AT ALL then how do you explain pollution?

Not saying that humans cannot have any effect on the planet. The simple fact I am trying to explain is that wether we are here or not the Earth will change. I would even suggest that it is not in our control. Of course we could reduce pollution. We should do that no matter what. For the simple fact that pollution is hazardous to humans. But on the grand scale of things we would have to produce massive pollution to have a real effect on the planet. Volcanoes throw out massive pollution every year. More than what humans do on a yearly basis. It is blown way out of porportion in my view. Alot of the anti-pollution talk is veiled anti-Americanism. It is always America's fault. Don't look at China or India for godssake!

A liberal lie made up by Teddy Roosevelt so he could further hunt rhinos in national parks.
Teddy Roosevelt at least knew how to deal with the corproate beast

Not saying that humans cannot have any effect on the planet. The simple fact I am trying to explain is that wether we are here or not the Earth will change. I would even suggest that it is not in our control. Of course we could reduce pollution. We should do that no matter what. For the simple fact that pollution is hazardous to humans. But on the grand scale of things we would have to produce massive pollution to have a real effect on the planet. Volcanoes throw out massive pollution every year. More than what humans do on a yearly basis. It is blown way out of porportion in my view. Alot of the anti-pollution talk is veiled anti-Americanism. It is always America's fault. Don't look at China or India for godssake!
I dont think pollution is Americas fault but Global warming is Bushs baby

Teddy Roosevelt at least knew how to deal with the corproate beast
And at least he knew how to deal with those "savage" Filipino's during the Spanish-American War as well :rolleyes:

Yup. This is big the sinkhole.

http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182
whoa, the same site...:eek:

I support the war in Iraq and against radical Islam as necessary expenditure. But when the numbers are tallied up it is not going to be cheap. The thought of a over mortgaged future is scary. Guess time to print more money! :p

I know what you mean. Military industrial complex. What a bunch of fags. :mad:

I dont think pollution is Americas fault but Global warming is Bushs baby

Only because some want to label it as such. I say it's not his baby. Let's have a paternity test on the Jerry Springer show!

And at least he knew how to deal with those "savage" Filipino's during the Spanish-American War as well :rolleyes:
yeah well it was the age of imperialism

I support the war in Iraq and against radical Islam as necessary expenditure. But when the numbers are tallied up it is not going to be cheap. The thought of a over mortgaged future is scary. Guess time to print more money! :p
actually all the war in Iraq did was turn the formerly secular Iraq into another radical Islamic country

Only because some want to label it as such. I say it's not his baby. Let's have a paternity test on the Jerry Springer show!
its his Baby cause hes letting it grow instead of aborting it

I know what you mean. Military industrial complex. What a bunch of fags. :mad:
the military industrial complex would be nothing without them

actually all the war in Iraq did was turn the formerly secular Iraq into another radical Islamic country

Not at all. The media spins it to look like this. I have talked to many buddies still in the military that have served over there. They have a very different side to it. Also don't forget that most of the crazies over there are foreign fighters that were sent there to stir trouble.
One other note on your comment. Remember powerful dictators such as Saddam only get to power because they keep a lid on ethnic fueds. Yugoslavia was a problem that Milosevic couldn't maintain forever. A good example of what happens in a dictatorship gone wild. Saddam was a better dictator than Milosevic in my opinion. His oppression is almost up there with Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler.

Not at all. The media spins it to look like this. I have talked to many buddies still in the military that have served over there. They have a very different side to it. Also don't forget that most of the crazies over there are foreign fighters that were sent there to stir trouble.
One other note on your comment. Remember powerful dictators such as Saddam only get to power because they keep a lid on ethnic fueds. Yugoslavia was a problem that Milosevic couldn't maintain forever. A good example of what happens in a dictatorship gone wild. Saddam was a better dictator than Milosevic in my opinion. His oppression is almost up there with Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph but my Revolutionary radical progressive sources of Liberation have told me that the Iraqi insurgency was primarily homegrown and in direct response to foreign occupation

Its not too late to come into the Light--Join the Revolution embrace Planetary survival

TRA?

LOLOLOL look at me I'm another group-mentality anti-Bush n00b r3publicans are de eeebil!11! boo capitalism
:fluffle: :confused: :eek: :mad: :rolleyes: :upyours: :headbang: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:


Okay, now the real message:
Yea, the whole anti-Bush thing is getting old

ROFLMAO!!!!

Skapedroe returns?

Also, I didn't know Amtrak was in league with the Military-Industrial Complex, thus forming the OP's "Military-Industrail Complex." Who would ever have guessed that our innocent-seeming trains were actually a part of this vast conspiracy! Thanks for the info.

Skapedroe returns?

Also, I didn't know Amtrak was in league with the Military-Industrial Complex, thus forming the OP's "Military-Industrail Complex." Who would ever have guessed that our innocent-seeming trains were actually a part of this vast conspiracy! Thanks for the info.

Skapenroe at least made it entertaining. And had proper spelling.

I am reminded of the infamous "Dinosaur" quote...:)

Yea, the whole anti-Bush thing is getting old[/B]
Its not Bush though. This thing is bigger than some C at yale fake texas presidential puppet. Thats the film's point

TRA?
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA
I grow increasingly confuzzled.

with knowledge comes great sadness

Its not too late to come into the Light--Join the Revolution embrace Planetary survival

Romulus: I am your father. Join the Dark Side of the Force!

As a student of the social sciences, I tend to find the entire concept of a military industrial complex quite amusing, for the fundamental reason that it's so much of an oversimplification of how the world works. Not only do the military and the arms industries play an important role, but there are loads of other interests that are out there. The obvious ones are the Printed Press, the energy industry, political interest groups, the electronic media, the internet and associated things and loads more factors. The entire concept is faulty just like the entire concept of dialectics. The world is infinitely complex, and no single pair of factors can be determined for anything.

Romulus: I am your father. Join the Dark Side of the Force!
Im scurred:(

Im scurred:(
Feel your anger! It makes you stronger!

Feel your anger! It makes you stronger!
I live my anger but in this forum strong emotions are auto-deat

I live my anger but in this forum strong emotions are auto-deat
Look at my post count. I've had plenty of strong emotions displayed in this forum. You just have to not have your strong emotions inappropriately. And if all else fails, you can always plead Myrth.

Look at my post count. I've had plenty of strong emotions displayed in this forum. You just have to not have your strong emotions inappropriately. And if all else fails, you can always plead Myrth.
this forum is over moderated

this forum is over moderated
Not (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10553453&postcount=36) according to some. I know who I prefer to believe.

Not (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10553453&postcount=36) according to some. I know who I prefer to believe.
I guess I would prolly think that way if I was a mod too--but I dont agree that only troublemakers get deated

yeah well it was the age of imperialism
Don't make excuses. You're thoroughly opposed to the military-industrial complex but you'll make excuses for Teddy's actions? By your standards he might be considered part of the proto-M.I. complex

Don't make excuses. You're thoroughly opposed to the military-industrial complex but you'll make excuses for Teddy's actions? By your standards he might be considered part of the proto-M.I. complex
TR fought the kind of corporate-fascism that plagues America today under the wicked Bush crime syndicate

It's fantastic I cannot wait for more on this very, very unique and special subject please continue to fill our minds with your extensive "links and referrals" knowledge!

I will unless they kill ,me

Since this thread just screams CONSPIRACY I'll post this:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/images/Conspiracy.jpg

I will unless they kill ,me

The agents of of the Military Industrial complex are currently busy killing off the opponents of the jewish-controlled media. Please take a ticket and be patient.

No no you're wrong! It's those blasted freemasons and their illuminati counterparts who spread mind controlling chemicals through the air and the new world order...

Blah blah blah. Don't get tangled up in your own freaky stories conspiracy junks.

Since this thread just screams CONSPIRACY I'll post this:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/images/Conspiracy.jpg
Conspiracys are REAL--thats the biggest one of them all--you honestly believe those pablum puking reporters on the TV news who are deathly afraid of offending their jackbooted owners?

The agents of of the Military Industrial complex are currently busy killing off the opponents of the jewish-controlled media. Please take a ticket and be patient.
Live Free or Die:sniper:

Conspiracys are REAL--thats the biggest one of them all--you honestly believe those pablum puking reporters on the TV news who are deathly afraid of offending their jackbooted owners?

So....the Illuminati are real? The media really is controlled by the jewish? Space lizards really are disguised as Bush and Queen Elizabeth II?

Fascinating.

What evidence do you give for your statement that conspiracies are real?

No no you're wrong! It's those blasted freemasons and their illuminati counterparts who spread mind controlling chemicals through the air and the new world order...

Blah blah blah. Don't get tangled up in your own freaky stories conspiracy junks.
its natural for people to dismiss realities they fear the most--just calling something a conspiracy doesnt make it untrue

Conspiracys are REAL--thats the biggest one of them all--you honestly believe those pablum puking reporters on the TV news who are deathly afraid of offending their jackbooted owners?

I lol at thee. You are the funniest guy since...well, Skapenroe.

Oh, and your toilet has a camera in it. Just thought I should warn you.

its natural for people to dismiss realities they fear the most--just calling something a conspiracy doesnt make it untrue

Again, I demand evidence of said conspiracies.

Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands appears to be a reptiloid, which is a shocking revelation.

So....the Illuminati are real? The media really is controlled by the jewish? Space lizards really are disguised as Bush and Queen Elizabeth II?

Fascinating.

What evidence do you give for your statement that conspiracies are real?
the existence of Pure Evil

I lol at thee. You are the funniest guy since...well, Skapenroe.

Oh, and your toilet has a camera in it. Just thought I should warn you.
paranoia is just total awareness however you shouldnt let the fear overtake you or the terrorists win

the existence of Pure Evil

...

I truly think that's the only response I can give. Forget actual concrete evidence of conspiracies. The fact that evil exists means conspiracies exist. How could I ever not have known?

Get yourself to a mental hospital on the double. It doesn't sound right at all.

Again, I demand evidence of said conspiracies.
the evidence is buried in the mass graves

the evidence is in the mass graves

And where might those be, pray tell?

Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands appears to be a reptiloid, which is a shocking revelation.
Id have to see a pic of her

the evidence is buried in the mass graves

Okay...now I'm sure you're either legally insane or a troll. More likely the latter. However, to avoid doing my essay, I'll bite.

What graves? Where? Filled with whom? Killed by whom? When? Why?

...

I truly think that's the only response I can give. Forget actual concrete evidence of conspiracies. The fact that evil exists means conspiracies exist. How could I ever not have known?
evil needs to replicate;)

Id have to see a pic of her

Looks like a nice old lady to me! But I could be wrong of course! (http://www.zuid-holland-zuid.com/images/koningin%20Beatrix.jpg)

Get yourself to a mental hospital on the double. It doesn't sound right at all.
mental health is mind control disguized as junk science

Looks like a nice old lady to me! But I could be wrong of course! (http://www.zuid-holland-zuid.com/images/koningin%20Beatrix.jpg)

Actually, she's kind of hot, in a grandmothery sort of way.

mental health is mind control disguized as junk science

You're Tom Cruise, arn't you?

evil needs to replicate;)

No, I was right. Troll/puppet, and not even very good.

I give you 2/10 for the conspiracy stuff itself. The mass graves is at least vaguely original. However on presentation a big 0/10. There should be more spelling mistakes and wilder claims, plus random capitalisation and overuse of exclamation marks. The real pros also link to sites with random conspiracy theories. Do some more research next time.

And where might those be, pray tell?
do you have any idea how many dead bodies you walk on over during the course of an average day?

What's stopping me from using a puppet and spreading some good ol' conspiracy stuff? We're gonna have a ball!

do you have any idea how many dead bodies you walk on over during the course of an average day?
Nope. Enlighten me, your Cruisiness...

Okay...now I'm sure you're either legally insane or a troll. More likely the latter. However, to avoid doing my essay, I'll bite.

What graves? Where? Filled with whom? Killed by whom? When? Why?
any one who tells the truth is accused of trollery-- or maybe the truth has always been like a sword

Looks like a nice old lady to me! But I could be wrong of course! (http://www.zuid-holland-zuid.com/images/koningin%20Beatrix.jpg)
she looks like a classic drug mule

You're Tom Cruise, arn't you?
No but hes being blackmailed by the Scientologists

Okay RO. Let's bend reality for a second and say that I want to believe you. Where's the evidence? I want links, references to books, studies. I want the dirt on events, on people, on the cults and organisations that are 'oppressing us'

No, I was right. Troll/puppet, and not even very good.

I give you 2/10 for the conspiracy stuff itself. The mass graves is at least vaguely original. However on presentation a big 0/10. There should be more spelling mistakes and wilder claims, plus random capitalisation and overuse of exclamation marks. The real pros also link to sites with random conspiracy theories. Do some more research next time.
but do you ever seriously stop to think how rediculous the "official" version of reality sounds?

but do you ever seriously stop to think how rediculous the "official" version of reality sounds?

We wish for some specific examples, Tom Cruise.

What's stopping me from using a puppet and spreading some good ol' conspiracy stuff? We're gonna have a ball!
conspiracys are fueled by the seeds of truth hiddin within them--its up to us to separate it in our minds

but do you ever seriously stop to think how rediculous the "official" version of reality sounds?

Things like gravity, y'mean? Anyway, I reiterate. Evidence, sir. Links, studies, book references, people and organisations.

Gravity is a myth! We're all floating right now!

Nope. Enlighten me, your Cruisiness...
I would like to say MILLIONs

The Illuminati is real - and that's all that's real in this thread.

Get a friggin' job you conspiracy bums.

The Illuminati is real - and that's all that's real in this thread.

Get a friggin' job you conspiracy bums.

Seconded.

Okay RO. Let's bend reality for a second and say that I want to believe you. Where's the evidence? I want links, references to books, studies. I want the dirt on events, on people, on the cults and organisations that are 'oppressing us'
yes theyre all online just pleading to be noticred:rolleyes:

well for starters have you ever heard of Bohemian Grove?

I would like to say MILLIONs

Sigh. Tom Cruise is not providing evidence. Again.

Bad Tom Cruise, BAD!

yes theyre all online just pleading to be noticred:rolleyes:

Notice that's why I asked for book references, study references that can be looked at and examined. Groups that can be investigated. People that can be examined and investigated.

EDIT: And what would Bohemian Grove be then? Badly named '80's rock band?

We wish for some specific examples, Tom Cruise.
if Cruise were to provide them he would have to be exposed as a homosexual

if Cruise were to provide them he would be exposed as a homosexual

Evidence, man, evidence!

Gravity is a myth! We're all floating right now!
I know I am

The Illuminati is real - and that's all that's real in this thread.

Get a friggin' job you conspiracy bums.
its ALL reality cloaked in a fog of half truths and a few hystercial lies to throw the unwary off the trail

Sigh. Tom Cruise is not providing evidence. Again.

Bad Tom Cruise, BAD!
Tom Cruise is Pwned and Pnamed

its ALL reality cloaked in a fog of half truths and a few hystercial lies to throw the unwary off the trail


EVIDENCE!

Just in case you didn't see it before...

I Demand Evidence!

Just for added emphasis y'know...

Notice that's why I asked for book references, study references that can be looked at and examined. Groups that can be investigated. People that can be examined and investigated.

EDIT: And what would Bohemian Grove be then? Badly named '80's rock band?
Bohemian Grove is where the Illumanti trilateralists Bilderbergers and the internalistic globalist elite gather to sodomize the kidnapped sons hardworking Americans

Bohemian Grove is where the Illumanti trilateralists Bilderbergers and the internalistic globalist elite gather to sodomize the kidnapped sons hardworking Americans

EVIDENCE

Evidence, man, evidence!
evidence is in your gut which never lies

evidence is in your gut which never lies

So....no actual evidence then? No papers, no links, no studies, no books?

ok ill get a link...brb

evidence is in your gut which never lies

Once my gut feeling told me I could take that turn at 50kmph

Then suddenly my bike slipped and I ended up with a broken rear-view mirror.

Wow, gut never lies!

Once my gut feeling told me I could take that turn at 50kmph

Then suddenly my bike slipped and I ended up with a broken rear-view mirror.

Wow, gut never lies!
your gut didnt lie--you betrayed your gut with an inner doubt

your gut didnt lie--you betrayed your gut with an inner doubt

You said that you were getting links...

your gut didnt lie--you betrayed your gut with an inner doubt

So, if Seathorn had believed in himself, he could have defied gravity and the laws of physics?

So, if Seathorn had believed in himself, he could have defied gravity and the laws of physics?
yes Totally yes

yes Totally yes

...

What?

yes Totally yes

welcome back :)

welcome back :)

Welcome Back? How long has he been gone? Was he another poster?

Welcome Back? How long has he been gone? Was he another poster?

One of many...

Why We Fight: A short film on the Military Industrial Complex

Our nation has become the massive military spending engine Ike predicted years ago
View the trailer: http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/
Why We Fight' is an unflinching look at the military industrial complex and the rise of the American Empire. Inspired by Dwight Eisenhower's legendary farewell speech (in which he coined the phrase "military industrial complex"), the film surveys the scorched landscape of a half-century's military adventures, asking how -- and telling why -- a nation of, by, and for the people has become the savings-and-loan of a system whose survival depends on a state of constant war. The film moves beyond the headlines of various American military operations to the deeper questions of why -- why does America fight? What are the forces -- political, economic and ideological -- that drive us to fight against an ever-changing enemy?
Review: http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/movie/_/id/6823996/rid/9166284/?rnd=1142043438317&has-player=unknown
Yes, fight the power! In the meantime, BAe Systems can move in and take up all the market space the US companies lost when they were destroyed by these lunatics. Alternatively, there is nothing you can do to industry, because it is full of large numbers of people who are all more intelligent than you. Sorry.

Yes, fight the power! In the meantime, BAe Systems can move in and take up all the market space the US companies lost when they were destroyed by these lunatics. Alternatively, there is nothing you can do to industry, because it is full of large numbers of people who are all more intelligent than you. Sorry.
The Mighty People united can crush the Beasts head underfoot

Yeah, sure.

Although I should point out that most people dont actually want to destroy the defence industry, because it brings jobs and economic prosperity.

they should be made to diversify for a peace time economy with jobs in the pleasure industry

LOLOLOL look at me I'm another group-mentality anti-Bush n00b r3publicans are de eeebil!11! boo capitalism
:fluffle: :confused: :eek: :mad: :rolleyes: :upyours: :headbang: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:


Okay, now the real message:
Yea, the whole anti-Bush thing is getting old

I don't know if you've seen the trailer or read the review, but I have. And I have to tell you this is much more serious and creadable than a simple Bush-bashing. This is a critique of American forigen policy and arms industries over a span of more than 40 years

they should be made to diversify for a peace time economy with jobs in the pleasure industry
wtf? How will people who've spent their lives designing guns and missiles "diversify for a peace time economy with jobs in the pleasure industry"? At the same time, do you think China is doing this? Russia? Iran, even? You are extremely naive and sadly there are far more like you. I have no doubt that such people could prove the greatest threat to democracy and liberty in our times. Leaving the liberal democracies chronically underarmed and weak will leave them open for far less savoury powers to take their place.

wtf? How will people who've spent their lives designing guns and missiles "diversify for a peace time economy with jobs in the pleasure industry"? At the same time, do you think China is doing this? Russia? Iran, even? You are extremely naive and sadly there are far more like you. I have no doubt that such people could prove the greatest threat to democracy and liberty in our times. Leaving the liberal democracies chronically underarmed and weak will leave them open for far less savoury powers to take their place.
It is important to have a check on the military industrial complex. It's important to be rational. It's important to have a debate. War is profitable and if left to itself without any sort of outside restriction, it will just continue making more money until we are dependent on it.

We can still have our Arms systems but I think its better for our nations spiritual health to conquer all enemies with devices of pleasure then devices that cause pain and suffering which cause God to turn his back on us--altho I agree my solution is kinda golden age we still should strive for better realities

wtf? How will people who've spent their lives designing guns and missiles "diversify for a peace time economy with jobs in the pleasure industry"? At the same time, do you think China is doing this? Russia? Iran, even? You are extremely naive and sadly there are far more like you. I have no doubt that such people could prove the greatest threat to democracy and liberty in our times. Leaving the liberal democracies chronically underarmed and weak will leave them open for far less savoury powers to take their place.
K, man, he was obviously joking, like what the hell, how are you so dumb

The US's defense spending is only 3.4% of GDP, an amount significantly lower
than it was at any other point in our history save during the late 90's, when it was a little bit lower.

We're farther from Ike's Military-Industrial complex now than we were when he warned about it; we'd probably need to spend around 15% of GDP (or about $1.855 trillion) to get to that level, since Ike's comments were based upon the complex as it existed in the USSR where defense spending was at least 15% of GDP at any time, and was as high as 30% during the later years of the Soviet Union.

Effectively, if defense spending is above 15% of GDP the economy will have a guaranteed collapse in the future if that rate is maintained.

K, man, he was obviously joking, like what the hell, how are you so dumb

From his earlier posts, I don't think he was joking. There was no need for such rudery, either.

The US's defense spending is only 3.4% of GDP, an amount significantly lower
than it was at any other point in our history save during the late 90's, when it was a little bit lower.

We're farther from Ike's Military-Industrial complex now than we were when he warned about it; we'd probably need to spend around 15% of GDP (or about $1.855 trillion) to get to that level, since Ike's comments were based upon the complex as it existed in the USSR where defense spending was at least 15% of GDP at any time, and was as high as 30% during the later years of the Soviet Union.

Effectively, if defense spending is above 15% of GDP the economy will have a guaranteed collapse in the future if that rate is maintained.
what better reason for the Bush Admin war cronies to create a scenario for endless war just to keep the Military Industrial complex in business

Terrorism the New Communism

The US's defense spending is only 3.4% of GDP, an amount significantly lower
than it was at any other point in our history save during the late 90's, when it was a little bit lower.

We're farther from Ike's Military-Industrial complex now than we were when he warned about it; we'd probably need to spend around 15% of GDP (or about $1.855 trillion) to get to that level, since Ike's comments were based upon the complex as it existed in the USSR where defense spending was at least 15% of GDP at any time, and was as high as 30% during the later years of the Soviet Union.

Effectively, if defense spending is above 15% of GDP the economy will have a guaranteed collapse in the future if that rate is maintained.
97% of the money allocated to science is used for Weapons Research and the Space Program.

Okay, now the real message:
Yea, the whole anti-Bush thing is getting old

Yes, only fools and heretics deny that Bush is our savior, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, hallelujah! Bush will save us from the burden of having to abstain from abortion, masturbation, and other sins using only our own will power and moral fiber. Hail Bush! Hail the Complex!

97% of the money allocated to science is used for Weapons Research and the Space Program.

The Space Program is an incredible wellspring of technological and scientific advancement, and its contributions to the US's research infrastructure is not to be understated. If possible, I'd greatly increase its funding because the technology they research is an important part of maintaining our economic competitiveness and attracting scientists to US institutions.

Generally, things deployed originally for weapons and national defense will be adapted to civilian uses; therefore, it doesn't really seem like a problem that the government's research budget goes towards military purposes. Since that type of research would be underrepresented and underfunded if left to the private sector, defense research provides a valuable research environment that doesn't exist in the private sector.

Yes, only fools and heretics deny that Bush is our savior, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, hallelujah! Bush will save us from the burden of having to abstain from abortion, masturbation, and other sins using only our own will power and moral fiber. Hail Bush! Hail the Complex!
I don't know... Bush is temporary. War is forever. Why don't we just worship the complex no matter who's in charge?

The Space Program is an incredible wellspring of technological and scientific advancement, and its contributions to the US's research infrastructure is not to be understated. If possible, I'd greatly increase its funding because the technology they research is an important part of maintaining our economic competitiveness and attracting scientists to US institutions.

Generally, things deployed originally for weapons and national defense will be adapted to civilian uses; therefore, it doesn't really seem like a problem that the government's research budget goes towards military purposes. Since that type of research would be underrepresented and underfunded if left to the private sector, defense research provides a valuable research environment that doesn't exist in the private sector.
Well, bringing it down a couple percent to fuel some stem cell research wouldn't hurt.

what better reason for the Bush Admin war cronies to create a scenario for endless war just to keep the Military Industrial complex in business Terrorism the New Communism

Well, the thing is that most of the money being allocated as part of spending increases goes to R&D; no more than 20% is spent actually buying new equipment, and the rest goes to personnel and maintenance. Now, if the spending were to be heavily slanted towards procurement, it might be different.

Well, bringing it down a couple percent to fuel some stem cell research wouldn't hurt.

Stem cell research is probably pursued by the Defense Department at some point, and the Department does provide grants to organizations that pursue such research. After all, there are military benefits to pursuing that field, and that pretty much guarantees that the DoD is working on it.

We can still have our Arms systems but I think its better for our nations spiritual health to conquer all enemies with devices of pleasure then devices that cause pain and suffering which cause God to turn his back on us--altho I agree my solution is kinda golden age we still should strive for better realities
Yes I am sure that the Chinese will be disuaded from invading Taiwan if you just throw mobile phones at them.

Yes I am sure that the Chinese will be disuaded from invading Taiwan if you just throw mobile phones at them.

Well, $200 billion in trade with them as well as billions of dollars of FDI in their economy might. Of course, it would still be incredibly foolish to dismantle any of our military...

Yes I am sure that the Chinese will be disuaded from invading Taiwan if you just throw mobile phones at them.
No, it worked on the Chinese when Britain "conquered" them with Opium. That's a device of pleasure :D

No, it worked on the Chinese when Britain "conquered" them with Opium. That's a device of pleasure :D
;)

Bring Back the Opium Bomb

Yes, only fools and heretics deny that Bush is our savior, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, hallelujah! Bush will save us from the burden of having to abstain from abortion, masturbation, and other sins using only our own will power and moral fiber. Hail Bush! Hail the Complex!
*headdesk*
I'm mocking the group anti-Bush mentality! Never said you couldn't be against him; just that you have to have a coherent argument.

*headdesk*
I'm mocking the group anti-Bush mentality! Never said you couldn't be against him; just that you have to have a coherent argument.
it boggles my mind after all we know now and all that has happened that anyone can still support Bush

Stem cell research is probably pursued by the Defense Department at some point, and the Department does provide grants to organizations that pursue such research. After all, there are military benefits to pursuing that field, and that pretty much guarantees that the DoD is working on it.
That is very hard to believe. It would also be incredibly dumb for the DOD to research stem cells without having the plentiful scientists in our universities be a part of it.

That is very hard to believe. It would also be incredibly dumb for the DOD to research stem cells without having the plentiful scientists in our universities be a part of it.

Most of the DoD's grants do go to universities or companies; the most notable is probably the SBIR grant that goes to small businesses, and embryonic stem cells are part of that research. It's also important to note that the Department of Defense funds organizations through that program that aren't accountable to shareholders, which is an excellent thing.

Most of the DoD's grants do go to universities or companies; the most notable is probably the SBIR grant that goes to small businesses, and embryonic stem cells are part of that research. It's also important to note that the Department of Defense funds organizations through that program that aren't accountable to shareholders, which is an excellent thing.
I'm having a hard time actually looking up this particular instance. I thought that if the money came from the DoD, then that is considered federal funding and you can't research stem cells with federal money.

I'm having a hard time actually looking up this particular instance. I thought that if the money came from the DoD, then that is considered federal funding and you can't research stem cells with federal money.

Well, they kind of bend the rules a little; one way is to give grants to foreign universities in friendly nations to work on projects restricted in the US:

http://www.the-scientist.com/article/display/22081/

Another one is to award grants to defense contractors:

http://www.linuxmednews.com/1106324091/index_html

Either way, the DoD gets around Bush's plans...more often than not, it seems they pursue their own goals irrespective of such restrictions.

Well, they kind of bend the rules a little; one way is to give grants to foreign universities in friendly nations to work on projects restricted in the US:

http://www.the-scientist.com/article/display/22081/

Another one is to award grants to defense contractors:

http://www.linuxmednews.com/1106324091/index_html

Either way, the DoD gets around Bush's plans...more often than not, it seems they pursue their own goals irrespective of such restrictions.
Fuck. Now I have too much to think about. Thanks a lot.

Anyway... maybe I'll open this issue back up when I'm better prepared to answer to this different track you've sent me on.

No, it worked on the Chinese when Britain "conquered" them with Opium. That's a device of pleasure :D
Yes. Sadly their new government is not so stupid.