NationStates Jolt Archive

Our population grows, but the ammount of fresh water is dwindling. Mexico city is sinking because they're draining the ground water out from under it. The water table is getting lower and lower under the US great plains due to pumping it out for agriculture. In Jordan and other Middle Eastern countries water shortages are chronic. http://www.uswaternews.com/archives/arcglobal/2watsho9.html

So will we be seeing wars over water rights soon? Are we facing a global water shortage?



Of a population of roughly 6.1 billion, more than 1 billion lack access to potable water. The World Health Organization says that at any time, up to half of humanity has one of the six main diseases -- diarrhea, schistosomiasis, or trachoma, or infestation with ascaris, guinea worm, or hookworm -- associated with poor drinking water and inadequate sanitation. About 5 million people die each year from poor drinking water, poor sanitation, or a dirty home environment -- often resulting from water shortage http://whyfiles.org/131fresh_water/

well, if the population exceeds earths carrying capaicty, then either a) we develope technology to make our consumption more efficient b) adapt/evolve to accomadate or c) the population will shrink back to a level the earth can support

i'm not really all too worried about it.

salt water distillation is the answer you seek...

I have actually read somewhere (I forget where) that this is the most likely thing to spark a war with Canada. Canada has the largest amount of fresh water...The US would need that in the case of a water shortage.

salt water distillation is the answer you seek...
Yeah, but after peak oil and without a new technology to replace fossil fuels? How does that work?

Our population grows, but the ammount of fresh water is dwindling. Mexico city is sinking because they're draining the ground water out from under it. The water table is getting lower and lower under the US great plains due to pumping it out for agriculture. In Jordan and other Middle Eastern countries water shortages are chronic. http://www.uswaternews.com/archives/arcglobal/2watsho9.html

So will we be seeing wars over water rights soon? Are we facing a global water shortage?

The situation is already bad here in the South East of England. We haven't had average rainfall for years, and the Government keeps building more and more houses down here to further drain the supply. Most of the region already has hosepipe bans in force and have done for most of the winter, and there is talk of standpipes this summer as the supplies run out.

Couple this with the fact that the water companies lose 25% of supplies to leaks in their pipes, and then cheerfully say they won't fix it because "it's cheaper for us not to," then we have a real problem for the future.

Yeah, but after peak oil and without a new technology to replace fossil fuels? How does that work?

what about solar distillation plants?

Here in South East Queensland we have 1,500 new people every week. They come from overseas, but mainly from Sydney, Melbourne and so on, because property prices are lower here.

But the infrastructure hasn't kept up. Roads, Electricity, Hospitals and so on are all in an increasingly desperate state.

And to top it all off, formerly subtropical Brisbane can now increasingly be described as "arid". It doesn't rain that much anymore, and when it does, it seems to always miss the reservoirs and dams.

We've been on water restrictions for months now.

what about solar distillation plants?
That's liberal commie talk. :p

Nuclear desalination plants. That's more like it. :)

what about solar distillation plants?
Great if it works efficiently enough to provide the proper ammount of water.

Yes!

Oh, hang on, no!

I just found a glass by my bed I had forgotten about.

People, you may now disperse.

Thank you, my good sirs.

Damn, now I'm thirsty. AFK.

Great if it works efficiently enough to provide the proper ammount of water.
what about inland areas? Are they going to have to ship it in? because that would give a distinct advantage to coastal regions (shipping water, even by pipe would cost. That would be reflected in prices the further you got from the source)

This is why people need to drink more beer.

This is why people need to drink more beer.

Beer, pfft. Cider is where it's at.

No we're just running out of free drinking water. As long as you morons keep buying the bottled stuff...

So will we be seeing wars over water rights soon? Are we facing a global water shortage?




I am sure there was a movie about that somewhere...like the total opposite of waterworld...Ill give someone 15 e-bucks if the can tell me the name of that movie...it bothers me to not know it.

This is why people need to drink more beer.
I think you've figured out how to get people interested in water conservation.
Water is the main ingredient in alcoholic drinks.
therefore, if we run out of water, we run out of alcohol.
I could deal with no water, but no beer? What are we, savages?

So will we be seeing wars over water rights soon? Are we facing a global water shortage?


Ripper: Mandrake?
Mandrake: Yes, Jack?
Ripper: Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?
Mandrake: Well, I can't say I have.
Ripper: Vodka, that's what they drink, isn't it? Never water?
Mandrake: Well, I-I believe that's what they drink, Jack, yes.
Ripper: On no account will a Commie ever drink water, and not without good reason.
Mandrake: Oh, eh, yes. I, uhm, can't quite see what you're getting at, Jack.
Ripper: Water, that's what I'm getting at, water. Mandrake, water is the source of all life. Seven-tenths of this earth's surface is water. Why, do you realize that seventy percent of you is water?
Mandrake: Uh, uh, Good Lord!
Ripper: And as human beings, you and I need fresh, pure water to replenish our precious bodily fluids.
Mandrake: Yes. (he begins to chuckle nervously)
Ripper: Are you beginning to understand?
Mandrake: Yes. (more laughter)
Ripper: Mandrake. Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure-grain alcohol?
Mandrake: Well, it did occur to me, Jack, yes.
Ripper: Have you ever heard of a thing called fluoridation. Fluoridation of water?
Mandrake: Uh? Yes, I-I have heard of that, Jack, yes. Yes.
Ripper: Well, do you know what it is?
Mandrake: No, no I don't know what it is, no.
Ripper: Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?

Gen. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?
Group Captain Mandrake: No. No, I don't, Jack. No.

Gen. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty six. Nineteen forty six, Mandrake! How does that coincide with your postwar commie conspiracy? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard core commie works.

Mandrake: Jack . . . Jack, listen, tell me, ah . . . when did you first develop this theory?
Ripper: Well, I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love.

Mandrake: (Sighs fearfully.)
Ripper: Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

Mandrake: Yes . . .
Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake, but I do deny them my essence.

Mandrake: Heh heh . . . yes.

I have actually read somewhere (I forget where) that this is the most likely thing to spark a war with Canada. Canada has the largest amount of fresh water...The US would need that in the case of a water shortage.

If it comes down to a war for water, we'll give it to the States. In large chunks, flung from trebuchets and dropped from (with) Sea Kings.

This is why people need to drink more beer.
Whaddaya mean... You're not allowed to drink it anyways ya damn jewmuzzie! ;)

That, and ya stole ma joke. Fie on you! :p

Water's for washin' & Beer's fer drinkin'. Who needs potable well water anyway?

I think you've figured out how to get people interested in water conservation.
Water is the main ingredient in alcoholic drinks.
therefore, if we run out of water, we run out of alcohol.
I could deal with no water, but no beer? What are we, savages?
Um... if I've got to boil it anyway, I may as well use seawater. Run it through a few mineral beds to simulate that "Rocky Mountian Sprinwater" mineral content and you are... "Golden". :p

We should be chopping chunks off glaciers and dropping them in resovoirs.

Yeah, but after peak oil and without a new technology to replace fossil fuels? How does that work?
By killing lots of people who won't need to drink water anymore. You could even distill the people, like in Dune.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Iwimi.jpg

This is projected to be the cause of some serious conflicts in the future. More so than oil.

Water shortages will leave world in dire straits (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-01-26-water-usat_x.htm)
Global Water Shortage Looms In New Century (http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/awr/dec99/Feature2.htm)
Water shortages 'foster terrorism' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2859937.stm)

Yes. And this has all been discussed before on these fora. But I'm sure you knew that, DCD.

I have actually read somewhere (I forget where) that this is the most likely thing to spark a war with Canada. Canada has the largest amount of fresh water...The US would need that in the case of a water shortage.

You mean it would be a war of the United States vs. Canada and the Great Lakes states. We're certainly not going to let you bastards take our water just so you can live in the middle of some godforsaken desert. If you want the water, you'll just have to brave the cold like us.

You mean it would be a war of the United States vs. Canada and the Great Lakes states. We're certainly not going to let you bastards take our water just so you can live in the middle of some godforsaken desert. If you want the water, you'll just have to brave the cold like us. :rolleyes:

We're already running out of water where I live. It's been over 100 days since last measurable precipitation, it rained relatively good last week and a little bit today, but it wasn't enough to register officially. Because of the lack of rain during the winter, this summer is going to be especially difficult. There are talks that we may have to institute water rationing possibly starting next month or in May. Unlike the rest of the world, we realize how scarce water is and we do our best to conserve as much as possible.

:rolleyes:

We're already running out of water where I live. It's been over 100 days since last measurable precipitation, it rained relatively good last week and a little bit today, but it wasn't enough to register officially. Because of the lack of rain during the winter, this summer is going to be especially difficult. There are talks that we may have to institute water rationing possibly starting next month or in May. Unlike the rest of the world, we realize how scarce water is and we do our best to conserve as much as possible.

Where do you live?

There are a lot of places that just aren't capable of supporting the sort of populations they have. I'd think rather than spending billions of dollars to make these places habitable it would make more sense to simply live where the environment can support it.

Where do you live?

There are a lot of places that just aren't capable of supporting the sort of populations they have. I'd think rather than spending billions of dollars to make these places habitable it would make more sense to simply live where the environment can support it.
So tell that to all the northerners that take all of our heating oil. Besides, I laugh whenever I see them complaining that their car won't start or they have to shovel snow for three hours so they can get out of their driveway. Why don't they move to a place where they don't have to do that? Same reason I stay here. Until August when I move to Illinois, at least...

So tell that to all the northerners that take all of our heating oil. Besides, I laugh whenever I see them complaining that their car won't start or they have to shovel snow for three hours so they can get out of their driveway. Why don't they move to a place where they don't have to do that? Same reason I stay here. Until August when I move to Illinois, at least...

Shoveling snow is an annoyance, not having water to drink is a bit more serious.

Fair point on the heating oil thing, though. Although we buy the heating oil, and extremely large scale diversions from the Great Lakes system would cause a great deal of damage to the economies of the states on the lakes.

I didn't realize how dry the Southwest was until I was stationed in Colorado Springs a couple of years ago. Growing up in Michigan, I took the vast amounts of water we have for granted until I moved out west. And from what I understand Colorado gets more precipitation that a great deal of the other states out there.

Shoveling snow is an annoyance, not having water to drink is a bit more serious.

Fair point on the heating oil thing, though. Although we buy the heating oil, and extremely large scale diversions from the Great Lakes system would cause a great deal of damage to the economies of the states on the lakes.

I didn't realize how dry the Southwest was until I was stationed in Colorado Springs a couple of years ago. Growing up in Michigan, I took the vast amounts of water we have for granted until I moved out west. And from what I understand Colorado gets more precipitation that a great deal of the other states out there. Yeah, a lot of our water, Phoenix and surrounding farms to be specific, get their water from the Colorado river. Tucson uses mainly ground water, but with the unexpected drought, they may need to use more colorado river water. Every region has its pros and cons, there are very few places that are well balanced. What really gets me though, is Vegas. That city is in the middle of the stinkin' desert with nothing surrounding it, virtually the only power is from the Hoover dam and it soaks up water like nothing else.

This is projected to be the cause of some serious conflicts in the future. More so than oil.

On the upside, we'll be the ones swimming in it. Take that ayatollah.

Umm... bump?

There will be serious water shortages. There are already semi-serious shortages.

I seem to recall that only 1% of all the water on the surface of the planet is avaliable drinkable water.

And, 20% of ALL the freshwater in the world, is in the Great Lakes.

It seems crazy, but if our population keeps climbing, and if the temperature increases year-on-year as it is doing currently, just another few years are going to see some real hard decisions being made about water.

An example of 'hard' decisions - at the moment (in most places, I don't know about ALL places) wastewater is processed and then released back into the environment, where it re-enters the water cycle and disperses. A better form of water stewardship, would be to run treated wastewater STRAIGHT back into the water treatment facilities that supply drinking water - after all - by the time wastewater has been treated, it's 'cleaner' than most natural sources.

Unfortunately, people don't like the idea that the water they drink today, was 'potty water' yesterday.

This water will be an excellent bargaining chip for the West, though. We don't get their oil, our economies crash. They don't get our water, they die. Who need who more now?

There will be serious water shortages. There are already semi-serious shortages.

I seem to recall that only 1% of all the water on the surface of the planet is avaliable drinkable water.

And, 20% of ALL the freshwater in the world, is in the Great Lakes.

It seems crazy, but if our population keeps climbing, and if the temperature increases year-on-year as it is doing currently, just another few years are going to see some real hard decisions being made about water.

An example of 'hard' decisions - at the moment (in most places, I don't know about ALL places) wastewater is processed and then released back into the environment, where it re-enters the water cycle and disperses. A better form of water stewardship, would be to run treated wastewater STRAIGHT back into the water treatment facilities that supply drinking water - after all - by the time wastewater has been treated, it's 'cleaner' than most natural sources.

Unfortunately, people don't like the idea that the water they drink today, was 'potty water' yesterday.That's technically still plenty of water. The problem is mainly that it's unevenly distributed, so there will be more "local" water shortages, and not a big "global" water shortage.

That's technically still plenty of water. The problem is mainly that it's unevenly distributed, so there will be more "local" water shortages, and not a big "global" water shortage.

Well, there are factors to consider... DIRECT access to drinking water is only part of the problem.

Our food requires water, in some form or another, at points throughout it's entire production... whether we are talking meat or vegetable matter.

If our water is heavily localised, our agriculture is similarly localised OR we have to transport our water, which has it's own inherent losses and risks as a process.

The US is already having problems with drying watersheds, especially in areas like Colorado, due to warmer temperatures, lower precipitation levels, and less ground water.

The logical endpoint of that curve, is that most of our farmland in this country, will become progressively 'dry'... and will have to have water 'imported' from areas that HAVE water. We will end up with two main sources - the Great Lakes, and coastal water (with the added problem of salt-intrusion or salinity)...

So, even in this nation, with 20% of all the 'drinking water'... agriculture is starting to suffer, and will continue to suffer, from water shortage.

Our lack of water may cause us to starve, before we have to worry about thirst.

And then, there are the health ramifications of lack of good drinking water...

Our population grows, but the ammount of fresh water is dwindling. Mexico city is sinking because they're draining the ground water out from under it. The water table is getting lower and lower under the US great plains due to pumping it out for agriculture. In Jordan and other Middle Eastern countries water shortages are chronic. http://www.uswaternews.com/archives/arcglobal/2watsho9.html

So will we be seeing wars over water rights soon? Are we facing a global water shortage?



http://whyfiles.org/131fresh_water/
The carrying capacity for the Earth, assuming a European standard of living, is 2.5 billion humans. We have (obviously) well exceded that. What this means is that we are currently depleting natural resources significantly faster than they can be replenished. Objectively speaking, we are "running out" of every natural resource, including drinking water. The only question is how fast we are running out. Most people are ok with the idea that we won't run out in their own life time, no matter what kind of Earth their children and grandchildren will be inheriting.

*snip*True. However, the US might not be the best example for this, since they are so big and cover both desert and well watered areas. Europe, for instance, has no deserts, and trends being as they are, certain parts are suffering from flooding while others suffer from droughts. In all, there is enough water around, the problem is getting it where it needs to. Even if worst comes to worst, there will be plenty of places that will have more than enough water.

A couple of snippets from The Independent 28/02/06.

The basic water requirement per person is 50 litres per day (but can go as low as 10 litres in some cases)

The average US citizen uses 500 litres a day, and the average Briton uses 200.

In the West it takes -
- 8 litres to brush your teeth
- 10 to 35 litres to flush the toilet
- 100 to 200 litres to have a shower

Litres of water need to produce a kilo of:
Potatoes - 1,000
Maize - 1,400
Wheat - 1,450
Chicken - 4,600
Beef - 42,500

It also a list of conflicts and some potential conflicts
- Israel, Jordan and Palestine (1967 Arab-Israeli war)
- Angola and Nambia
- Turkey and Syria
- Ethiopia and Egypt
- Bangladesh and India
and most worrying of all
- India and China

True. However, the US might not be the best example for this, since they are so big and cover both desert and well watered areas. Europe, for instance, has no deserts, and trends being as they are, certain parts are suffering from flooding while others suffer from droughts. In all, there is enough water around, the problem is getting it where it needs to. Even if worst comes to worst, there will be plenty of places that will have more than enough water.

The same thing still applies, though.

A flood is not a good form of irrigation, and most of the water it generates will be little or no use for agriculture, bathing or drinking..

The actual water that we use everyday, whether for washing our selves, washing our cars, or for drinking, is a carefully controlled substance... and much different to the content of a floodplain.

So will we be seeing wars over water rights soon? Are we facing a global water shortage?
I think it's going to happen, and the place where it's most likely to happen is around the Nile. Ethiopia have a growing population and want to get more water from the Nile, which is the only major fresh water source around. The trouble is, Egypt also have a growing population and they've made no secret that they'll see any attempt from Ethiopia to get what they see as too much water from the Nile as an act of war.

One possibility is desalination, but it requires huge amounts of energy to do, and it's never a good idea to put all our eggs in one basket. Unfortunately, I can't see an ideal solution to the problem. The population will eventually fall to sustainable levels, but a lot of people will suffer in the process.

We could certainly make much better use of our water. The water we use to shower, wash, or cook could be collected and used again to flush the toilet, maybe after some filtering and making sure the toilets can handle the impurities.

Vegetables can be produced using hydroponics, which ironically uses less water because it can be constantly recycled instead of just letting it evaporate or drain into the ground as in traditional farming.

Desertic areas in Chile are now using water traps. Sheets of mylar extended over a hillside trap the little air moisture there is and collects it in tanks that the town can use.

We could certainly make much better use of our water. The water we use to shower, wash, or cook could be collected and used again to flush the toilet, maybe after some filtering and making sure the toilets can handle the impurities.

Vegetables can be produced using hydroponics, which ironically uses less water because it can be constantly recycled instead of just letting it evaporate or drain into the ground as in traditional farming.

Desertic areas in Chile are now using water traps. Sheets of mylar extended over a hillside trap the little air moisture there is and collects it in tanks that the town can use.
Those are all good ideas. Here in the desert southwest of the US, a lot of people have a device installed so that we can get hot water without actually wasting water for it to get hot. That saves many, many gallons/year. I think those should be mandatory for all new houses/apartments if they're not already.

We need to drain water from the sea, desalinate it, preferably through Evaporation and condensation, doen't have to be drinkable, and then ship it inland, as far away from the sea as possible, and return most of the Salt to the sea in the Gulf Streams. This'll do three things, if it is done on a large enough scale.

1. Reduce the damage done by rising seas (if enough of the water can be used for agriculture and especially forestry, therfore trapping it in wood)

2. help create food and water stability in drought prone countries. If the sea water is used for agriculture, it produces food and subsiquent evaporation and rain fall produces drinkable water

3. This water would evaporate and fall as rain - the more rain that falls the cleaner the atmospher should be, in theory.

If the countries most at risk from rising sea water put money into a Un programm that produced these desalination plants all along the Africa and South American Coasts we could produce enough water to prevent conflict over water in the short term. Ultimately, population control is the only true solution to the world's water problems

We need to drain water from the sea, desalinate it, preferably through Evaporation and condensation, doen't have to be drinkable, and then ship it inland, as far away from the sea as possible, and return most of the Salt to the sea in the Gulf Streams. This'll do three things, if it is done on a large enough scale.

1. Reduce the damage done by rising seas (if enough of the water can be used for agriculture and especially forestry, therfore trapping it in wood)

2. help create food and water stability in drought prone countries. If the sea water is used for agriculture, it produces food and subsiquent evaporation and rain fall produces drinkable water

3. This water would evaporate and fall as rain - the more rain that falls the cleaner the atmospher should be, in theory.

If the countries most at risk from rising sea water put money into a Un programm that produced these desalination plants all along the Africa and South American Coasts we could produce enough water to prevent conflict over water in the short term. Ultimately, population control is the only true solution to the world's water problems

If we noticably increased the salinity of sea-water, we'd kill things... so dropping massive amounts of desalination waste might not be an environmentally sound premise.

I have to point out, also, we are actually reducing our forestry, year on year, not increasing it. And, that's the pattern for as long as finance is allowed to dominate over ecology. So - no forest 'water-traps', I'm afraid.

Also - I don't think you are realising how much energy is required for efficient desalination, or how much for transporting water over long distances.

It is not unusual, either, for a town water system to lose something like 25% of it's produced value, through basic leakage and waste... and that is without having to worry about relocation of millions of gallons of water over hundreds of miles.

A couple of snippets from The Independent 28/02/06.

The basic water requirement per person is 50 litres per day (but can go as low as 10 litres in some cases)

The average US citizen uses 500 litres a day, and the average Briton uses 200.

In the West it takes -
- 8 litres to brush your teeth
- 10 to 35 litres to flush the toilet
- 100 to 200 litres to have a shower


I'm not sure where these numbers came from, but they're talking smack.

I'd be shocked if it took more than a pint (.45 or so) litres to brush my teeth, unless I left the faucet on FULL, left, turned on the radio, brushed, left, started cooking breakfast, and came back.

My toilet takes 11 litres. BTW, most toilets on Earth take about that much. The average person uses the toilet 5-8 times a day.

My shower's rate is 1.9-5.6 liters per minute. A 10 minute shower (at worst) would be 56 litres.

500 liters a day? Yeah, right. More like 150, using these examples.

Can you cite a link for those absurd numbers?

For examples to the contrary:
http://www.aquacraft.com/Publications/resident.htm - cites 226 litres per day per person

http://www.washoecounty.us/water/wtrconservation/usage.htm?PHPSESSID=ac19ba17717a8620ff2ae20b70f92b9e - cites 241 liters per day per person

And, perhaps most interestingly: 70% of all fresh water is used for agriculture, and 70% of that is used... in Asia.
www.maff.go.jp/nouson/keikaku/ kikaku_syoiinkai/mizusigen/150314iinkai_e.pdf

Beer, pfft. Cider is where it's at.

No, we must start recycling our urine.

I'm not sure where these numbers came from, but they're talking smack.

I'd be shocked if it took more than a pint (.45 or so) litres to brush my teeth, unless I left the faucet on FULL, left, turned on the radio, brushed, left, started cooking breakfast, and came back.

My toilet takes 11 litres. BTW, most toilets on Earth take about that much. The average person uses the toilet 5-8 times a day.

My shower's rate is 1.9-5.6 liters per minute. A 10 minute shower (at worst) would be 56 litres.

500 liters a day? Yeah, right. More like 150, using these examples.

Can you cite a link for those absurd numbers?

For examples to the contrary:
http://www.aquacraft.com/Publications/resident.htm - cites 226 litres per day per person

http://www.washoecounty.us/water/wtrconservation/usage.htm?PHPSESSID=ac19ba17717a8620ff2ae20b70f92b9e - cites 241 liters per day per person

And, perhaps most interestingly: 70% of all fresh water is used for agriculture, and 70% of that is used... in Asia.
www.maff.go.jp/nouson/keikaku/ kikaku_syoiinkai/mizusigen/150314iinkai_e.pdfI did provide you where I got the infomation from. Unfortunately you can't view it unless you have a subscription to the newspaper. Though the stats are atributed to Mike McCarthy. I would have liked it if you read all of my post.

Please read your own sources properly. The source cites the US uses 650.3 litres per capita - higher than my own quote. For your second source it clearly states that the number does not include outside use. Where is this water going? Can it be reused with 100% efficiency? I think not. Better include it in the stats then.

I am sure there was a movie about that somewhere...like the total opposite of waterworld...Ill give someone 15 e-bucks if the can tell me the name of that movie...it bothers me to not know it.

Dune? That would seem to fit the bill.

I did provide you where I got the infomation from. Unfortunately you can't view it unless you have a subscription to the newspaper. Though the stats are atributed to Mike McCarthy. I would have liked it if you read all of my post.

"The Independent"? WTF? A quick search in Google comes up with:
http://www.independent.co.uk/ -- Britain
http://www.theindependent.ca/ -- Newfoundland
http://www.indyeastend.com/ -- New York
http://www.missoulanews.com/ -- Montana
http://www.independentng.com/ -- Nigeria
...and scores more. Am I to GUESS where you are?

Oh, I see! You have a location of London next to your name. So I'll *assume* you're in England then.
Oddly enough, I found your "unreadable article" in about 12 seconds, here:
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article348195.ece

Heck, I even found a free re-post of the whole text in a couple of minutes:
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=environment&Number=455041&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

PS: Mike McCarthy? He lives about 20 miles from me.
http://www.mikemccarthy.org/homev3.htm
...while New Haven has problems, I seriously doubt he's comparing International water usage.
Don't assume I know or care who your local newspeople are.

BTW: I *did* read your post. I was challenging your not posting any source to back what you said up. You could have pretty easily posted the entire article even though IT ITSELF doesn't say where it got the numbers from.
Are they from "Stop Climate Chaos" or "Greenpeace"? If so, then I also must cite the Markreich fact that 97% of all SCC members have an IQ of less than 82. :D

Please read your own sources properly. The source cites the US uses 650.3 litres per capita - higher than my own quote. For your second source it clearly states that the number does not include outside use. Where is this water going? Can it be reused with 100% efficiency? I think not. Better include it in the stats then.

I cited actual sources, and did so properly.
As for 630 litres: that's counting outdoor use and leaks. Look slightly above for the indoor total. Are you telling me the average Brit uses 200 litres of both indoor and outdoor water? Can you cite ANY reputable source with a link for these numbers you're purporting, or are they just punditry? :rolleyes:

<snip>Well done for finding the article. Though I did say you wouldn't be able to read it. I was quoting the article directly from the paper that I bought, not an internet source.

As far as I am concerned I have properly referenced my source (author, publication name and date). Which seems to be backed up by the fact that you managed to find a complete copy of the article in about 5 minutes. Unfortunately the author doesn't reference his sources.

Here are some alternative sources of infomation.
A water company in the South-East of the UK (says about 150 litres a day)
http://www.cambridge-water.co.uk/community/efficiency.asp
It also states that the average amount of water used per shower is just shy of 100 litres (close to the lower bound of the article's statement)

See also the UK environment agency's report
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/commondata/acrobat/b74_final_1237677.pdf

The report states that in the period 04/05 that the average consumption of water per household capita was 154 litres/day.

Neither source state whether this figure includes outside use.

However, the government source also states that total water delivered in this period was 12,698 million litres of water (both household and non-household). With an assumed population of 60 million for the UK this gives a gives a figure of 212 litres per day per capita (note the difference between simple per capita and per household capita).

But the government source doesn't say whether the total water delivered includes the figures for leaks or not. If leaks are included as extra then this gives a figure of 272 litres per day per capita. Giving an ambigious range of 118 litres per day per capita.

Happy?

272 is still considerably less than 630 in any case. :p

I am sure there was a movie about that somewhere...like the total opposite of waterworld...Ill give someone 15 e-bucks if the can tell me the name of that movie...it bothers me to not know it.

"Tank Girl", maybe?