NationStates Jolt Archive

According to Europe's Biggist Security organization it is!

New York Times on the Web
March 6, 2006

Guantanamo Better Than Belgian Prisons - OSCE Expert


BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Inmates at Guantanamo Bay prison are treated better than in Belgian jails, an expert for Europe's biggest security organization said on Monday after a visit to the controversial U.S. detention center.

But Alain Grignard, deputy head of Brussels' federal police anti-terrorism unit, said that holding people for many years without telling them what would happen to them is in itself ''mental torture.''

``At the level of the detention facilities, it is a model prison, where people are better treated than in Belgian prisons,'' said Grignard.

He served as expert on a visit to Guantanamo Bay last week by a group of lawmakers from the assembly of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's (OSCE).

Grignard's comments came less than a month after a United Nations report said that Guantanamo prison detainees faced treatment amounting to torture.

Many of the 500 inmates in the prison at the U.S. naval base in Cuba have been held for four years without trial. The prisoners were mainly detained in Afghanistan and are held as pat of President George W. Bush's ``war on terror.''

Grignard told a news conference that prisoners' right to practice their religion, food, clothes and medical care were better than in Belgian prisons.

``I know no Belgian prison where each inmate receives its Muslim kit,'' Grignard said.

Grignard said that while Guantanamo was not ``idyllic,'' he had noticed dramatic improvements each time he visited the facility over the last two years.

The head of the OSCE lawmakers in the delegation said she was happy with the medical facilities at the camp, adding she believed they had been improved recently.

Anne-Marie Lizin, chair of the Belgian Senate, told reporters at the same news conference she saw no point in calling for immediate closure of the detention camp.

``There needs to be a timetable for closure,'' said Lizin, but asking for immediate closure would have been unrealistic.

U.N. investigators last month demanded that the U.S. government close the prison without further delay, alleging a host of violations of human rights and torture.

They did not visit the site because they were not allowed to conduct interviews with the prisoners.

Lizin said the OSCE parliamentary delegation was also unable to talk to prisoners but had discussed the situation with the International Red Cross which has access to them.

The OSCE plans to prepare a report by the end of May, touching on the delegation's concerns including the legal situation of detainees, Lizin added.

The United States is a member of the 55-country OSCE.

So what do the rest of you think about htis?

Doesn't change the fact they are being held illegally without trial.

It doesn't matter if I'm at the Hilton or in Abu Ghraib, if I'm being held without cause I shouldn't be there.

Doesn't change the fact they are being held illegally without trial.

It doesn't matter if I'm at the Hilton or in Abu Ghraib, if I'm being held without cause I shouldn't be there.

Which isn't the purpose of the thread. The thread is about Guantanamo being a better prison than Belgian jails.

"and on your left are the areas used to beat our illegitimately held captives to within an inch of their lives. step right this way so we can see where the magic happens. and by magic i mean torture. hurry now, do keep up."

Which isn't the purpose of the thread. The thread is about Guantanamo being a better prison than Belgian jails.

Belgian jails hold people through due process of law.

Also, I haven' heard international outcry over Belgium. Mostly because it's an issue only to criminals in Belgium.

However, belgian prisons do not practise torture.

And nobody gets a prayer kit. Not buddhist, not muslims and not christians. It's government property. Religion and state are so very seperate that religion is practically forbidden from being taught in schools (and must be done so privately on your own cost).

Other than that, let me get in trouble with my local police and then let me get in trouble with US "soldiers" and then when I finally get released from Guantanamo (after a decade or two of no trial), I will tell you which is worse.

Also, in a belgian jail, I know that I will get a trial fairly rapidly.

Which isn't the purpose of the thread. The thread is about Guantanamo being a better prison than Belgian jails.

A gilded cage is still a cage.

I bet Corny would make a lousy songbird though :p

What's to make us think they didn't just clean up the place for the scheduled inspection?

What's to make us think they didn't just clean up the place for the scheduled inspection?
You mean like...

-"And through this door is the relaxation rooms with baths, where the inmates can get fresh fruit every day."
-"What's through that door, the one with the 'Danger, electricity!' sign on it? Where the screams are coming from?"
-"Oh, that. That's classified, so I'm afraid I can't tell you. Anyway, over there is the state-of-the-art hospital wing. I can show you half of it if you like, but don't talk to any inmates you might meet there..."

Was it the second paragraph of the article that stated: But Alain Grignard, deputy head of Brussels' federal police anti-terrorism unit, said that holding people for many years without telling them what would happen to them is in itself ''mental torture.''

So, if you like... actually tried them, I guess you could put them in your equivalent of a Belgian prison...

How nice to see people that care about the rights of Guantanamo prisoners against torture and human rights
not care about Cuban political prisoners under torture by Fidel Castro's dictatorship government.

Not care about government organised mobs against Cuban political dissidents.

How nice to see people that care about the rights of Guantanamo prisoners against torture and human rights
not care about Cuban political prisoners under torture by Fidel Castro's dictatorship government.

Not care about government organised mobs against Cuban political dissidents.You gathered that from the article..?

How nice to see people that care about the rights of Guantanamo prisoners against torture and human rights
not care about Cuban political prisoners under torture by Fidel Castro's dictatorship government.

Not care about government organised mobs against Cuban political dissidents.


So whenever Americans talk about how they dislike the way their own govt are treating people they are obliged to mention Cuba as well or else the only conclusion is that they just don't care?

Which isn't the purpose of the thread. The thread is about Guantanamo being a better prison than Belgian jails.


Yes folks please.... the purpose of this thread is to bad mouth Belgium and praise America. Sheesh, get with the program people!

How nice to see people that care about the rights of Guantanamo prisoners against torture and human rights
not care about Cuban political prisoners under torture by Fidel Castro's dictatorship government.

Not care about government organised mobs against Cuban political dissidents.

Cubans are evil godless commie heathens and are expected to torture and imprison eachother.

Americans are honorable freedom-loving capitalists that hug puppies and children. We shouldn't be acting like cubans. :p

I think I'll start taking bets on how long it will be until "Guantanamo; still not as bad as a concentration camp"

I think I'll start taking bets on how long it will be until "Guantanamo; still not as bad as a concentration camp"
I'm waiting for Belgian illegal combatants from Afghanistan - who are also ex-cons from Belgium - to release their memoirs. I just can't trust this Alain Grignard -bloke. What kind of an expert is he anyway..? How many years has he spent in these places, and why was he set free!?!

Guantanamo loses again.

Despite its supporters best efforts (well, maybe not the best).

Wow, I have never had such a big response to one of my posts, LOL.

To all, just an observation, it seems that most of my fellow NS nations dont care anything against Fidel the dictator while they care about every other problem in the world.

I am tired to see many deny, defend and excuse Fidel for his dictatorship government.

I wish I had time to respond directly to all who have quoted me, since each post deserves a direct exact response based on the post, not this general post.

I have to go now and torture political prisoners and dissidents protestors in my democratic nation of La Habana Cuba, LOL.

Perhaps another post later.

Gracias for your posts.

Which isn't the purpose of the thread. The thread is about Guantanamo being a better prison than Belgian jails.
So the point of the thread is propaganda spam?

I bet Guantanamo Bay is better than more than 3/4 of the world's jails. Hell, it's probably better than the Don Jail in Toronto. Isn't China a member of the UN? Lets check out their prisons. The ones they don't want us to see, I mean.

As for "a gilded cage still being a cage", well, would you prefer Interment Camps? Maybe the government should have said, screw imprisoning people based on the results of subterfuge, known associates and background checks to nab a few select people on suspicion of terrorism - lets just get every Arabic and Muslim in the country and throw them in camps. Or would you prefer them to let them carry out long investigations while they roam free, plotting, planning, and even committing terrorist attacks?

This is war. Your countrymen's lives are at stake. If even one person walked out of Guantanamo Bay a free man and then blew himself up shouting Jihad in front of the White house, you'd be all over the Administration for not holding him longer.

The safety of thousands, maybe even millions is at stake. If even 50 innocent men are in Guantanamo Bay due to being associated to terrorism without knowing it, I think that's a small price to pay to prevent the deaths of more innocent people.

Yes folks please.... the purpose of this thread is to bad mouth Belgium and praise America. Sheesh, get with the program people!
The title of the thread says it all.

Wow, I have never had such a big response to one of my posts, LOL.

To all, just an observation, it seems that most of my fellow NS nations dont care anything against Fidel the dictator while they care about every other problem in the world.

I am tired to see many deny, defend and excuse Fidel for his dictatorship government.

I wish I had time to respond directly to all who have quoted me, since each post deserves a direct exact response based on the post, not this general post.

I have to go now and torture political prisoners and dissidents protestors in my democratic nation of La Habana Cuba, LOL.

Perhaps another post later.

Gracias for your posts.Again...
How many times that happened in this thread, chief?