NationStates Jolt Archive

>_>

Never thought about it until today.

Does he keep it for showbusiness? Or does he just speak alot of German? My mom speaks to my grandma about once a month, and she has no trace of an accent.

It's not as bad as it was. Try watching Conan sometime. His problem is that not only is English his second language, he didn't even learn it as a child, or in high school, or college. He was already mr. universe or whatever before he even started learning it.

I'm guessing he learned it rather late in life. Linguistic theories assume that there is a window between being born and approximately your 10th year, in which you have the ability to learn to speak a language without accent. After that, your accent will stay with you, no matter how long you exclusively speak the 2nd language.

But that only accounts for an accent being there. Not for how thick it is.
How thick it is has to do with two factors : Your own ear (as in, how far you are able to distinguish between different sounds in order to imitate them), and the pressure put on you to get the pronounciation right.
I'm not going to make a guess on Arnold's hearing abilities, but there is very little pressure indeed for him to lose the accent. American society is used to a large variety of accents, it is not necessarily a disadvantage to speak accented English, the way it would be in France to speak accented French.
And his accent has become a trademark by now. He would lose much of his public image if he got a language trainer and acquired an all-American accent all of a sudden.

I'm trying to remember what it's called, but there's an innate/psychological thing in some people where they literally cannot replicate the accents in other languages and thus continue to speak a heavily accented form of that language for most of the rest of their life. And there's nothing they or anyone else can do about it.

Hmm, interesting thing about linguistics psych. Does that make my mom an anomaly? She came here in her 20s with no English, but is now completely accentless >_>

I'm guessing he learned it rather late in life. Linguistic theories assume that there is a window between being born and approximately your 10th year, in which you have the ability to learn to speak a language without accent. After that, your accent will stay with you, no matter how long you exclusively speak the 2nd language.
I've been speaking Swedish for six months and apparently I have a Norweigan accent. Better than American in my opinion.

I've been speaking Swedish for six months and apparently I have a Norweigan accent. Better than American in my opinion.

I've been speaking Dine (Navajo) for a few years, and have been told more than once that I speak it with an Apachee accent. Weird how that works.

Hmm, interesting thing about linguistics psych. Does that make my mom an anomaly? She came here in her 20s with no English, but is now completely accentless >_>
That could be the case. But seeing as it is your mom, you are probably so used to her accent that you can barely notice it.

Hmm, interesting thing about linguistics psych. Does that make my mom an anomaly? She came here in her 20s with no English, but is now completely accentless >_>

Well, that linguistic theory is nothing more but a theory. And heavily disputed, too.
Personally, I think it does depend almost exclusively on a person's musicality, i.e. the ability to distinguish different sounds and to reproduce them.

I've been speaking Dine (Navajo) for a few years, and have been told more than once that I speak it with an Apachee accent. Weird how that works.Some Americans ask me if I'm from from Chicago due to my accent. I've never been to Chicago though...

I've been speaking Dine (Navajo) for a few years, and have been told more than once that I speak it with an Apachee accent. Weird how that works.
I actually know what Dine is! Thank you BSA!
I really don't much care what accent I have, as long as its not my actual mother tongue! Whenever I attempt to pronounce German, people say that one cannot say "ich" as "ick". But, apparently, there's a place around Berlin where people say it that way. Gotta go there to learn me my German, should that day ever come.
Ahnold, why don't you get a Mexican accent? Or a French one?
Personally, I think it does depend almost exclusively on a person's musicality, i.e. the ability to distinguish different sounds and to reproduce them.
Yeah, I've realized I'm more musical than most people. I've never even learned how to read music or play anything. I'm jumping around with Spanish, Japanese, German, Swedish, English, and Finnish over here. Freakin' Åland, you'd think the population would be homogenus, but no! That just won't happen! Or maybe its just me. Anyhow, the main language is Swedish over here. The rest are merely dabbled in on a more or less non-daily basis.

Some Americans ask me if I'm from from Chicago due to my accent. I've never been to Chicago though...

When I was in Canada, people kept asking me if I was British.... and in France I was told I speak with a Breton accent. Funny how that works...

I actually know what Dine is! Thank you BSA!
I really don't much care what accent I have, as long as its not my actual mother tongue! Whenever I attempt to pronounce German, people say that one cannot say "ich" as "ick". But, apparently, there's a place around Berlin where people say it that way. Gotta go there to learn me my German, should that day ever come.
Ahnold, why don't you get a Mexican accent? Or a French one?

That would be "icke", and it's the accent/dialect spoken in Berlin and Brandenburg. But don't fall for it, you'd just trade one difficulty for another ;)

Just like some people pick up accents easily, some people lose their accent easily while others don't. I've met locals here in HK who have no Cantonese accent whatsoever while some Canadian born Chinese have quite strong HK accents.

As for myself, no-one thinks I'm from NZ. I even had an Aussie ask me what part of England I come from! I thought surely an fellow antipodean can spot a similar accent. And just last week I met a fellow kiwi who's just moved here and she assumed I'd been here for years because my accent is so minimal. Yet I lived in NZ for my entire life before coming here 18 months ago. I haven't even been to Oz.

Funnily enough, even though I'm pretty dreadful at imitating accents and am totally hopeless at learning languages, I find I'm really good at noticing differences in accents. e.g. The kiwi I met last week I told her she sounded like she had either a Waikato or Wellington accent, which freaked her. Turns out she grew up in Wellington but spent the last 5 years teaching in Hamilton (it's in the Waikato). To most people (including kiwis) our accent sounds the same thru-out the entire country. I can also hear the difference between Chinese speakers and can guess where they're from, even though I have no idea what they're talking about. That really freaks some out.

Also, Arnie's accent was part of what made him famous. So he never had a reason to ditch it. If he had lost his accent, I doubt he would have been so popular.

Whenever I attempt to pronounce German, people say that one cannot say "ich" as "ick". But, apparently, there's a place around Berlin where people say it that way. Gotta go there to learn me my German, should that day ever come.

Dialects and stuff. Proper High German uses "ich."

That would be "icke", and it's the accent/dialect spoken in Berlin and Brandenburg. But don't fall for it, you'd just trade one difficulty for another.
Hmm...accent and dialect. While I won't bother looking those terms up in a dictionary, I'll just define them myself.

"Accent" is a way of speaking that has come from one's mother tongue while speaking a differnet language. It fiddles with grammar and pronunciation in the other language, if it cannot be hidden. I personally think that one can never fully "lose" and accent, but merely rewire how one thinks.

"Dialect" is way of speaking your mother tongue, but can also be learned while acquiring another language. Again, its grammar and pronunciation, but there can also be other terms for things and ideas.

However, both can be thought of as the other.
I'm was just thinking that maybe the "icke" dialect's way of going about things would compliment my thought patterns. As I looked at "ich" and said "icke". :p
Dialects and stuff. Proper High German uses "ich."
I know. But, I myself have never spoken "proper English" so why should I start with another language? That's rehtorical.

Hmm...accent and dialect. While I won't bother looking those terms up in a dictionary, I'll just define them myself.

"Accent" is a way of speaking that has come from one's mother tongue while speaking a differnet language. It fiddles with grammar and pronunciation in the other language, if it cannot be hidden. I personally think that one can never fully "lose" and accent, but merely rewire how one thinks.

"Dialect" is way of speaking your mother tongue, but can also be learned while acquiring another language. Again, its grammar and pronunciation, but there can also be other terms for things and ideas.

However, both can be thought of as the other.
I'm was just thinking that maybe the "icke" dialect's way of going about things would compliment my thought patterns. As I looked at "ich" and said "icke". :p



Slightly different in German.

Accent is the correct, official language, with a regional or otheriwse changed pronounciation.

Dialect is a regional variation of the official language, using different words and grammar, and accented pronounciation.

I know. But, I myself have never spoken "proper English" so why should I start with another language? That's rehtorical.

Because there's no such thing as "proper English". There's no one agreed way of pronounciation, nor of vocabulary. It varies regionally, and most versions are accepted and "English".

With German, there is one agreed, official language with one agreed, official pronounciation. Accents are a bit of a social issue, because the general understanding is that the heavier the accent of a speaker is, the less the speaker is able to speak to official language, the lower the speaker's education and therefore social status.
Dialects are the lowest form in a social ranking.

Dialects and stuff. Proper High German uses "ich."
How is "Ich" pronounced though?

How is "Ich" pronounced though?

Hard to explain...

Slightly different in German.
That's due to the nature of Germany. The English term doesn't express Germany all that well, as I've had many a Germans get into a discussion on how Germany is a band of "like speakers" so to say. Then, the usual trend of the conversation is to say they like the French equivilant of "Alemania" is better, as it means with interpretation (not direct translation here) "the land of German speakers".

Kudos to them for defining it so well.
Because there's no such thing as "proper English". There's no one agreed way of pronounciation, nor of vocabulary. It varies regionally, and most versions are accepted and "English".
"Proper English" had an implied "proper American-English". Also, the question was rehtorical.
With German, there is one agreed, official language with one agreed, official pronounciation. Accents are a bit of a social issue, because the general understanding is that the heavier the accent of a speaker is, the less the speaker is able to speak to official language, the lower the speaker's education and therefore social status.
That's rather archaic.
Dialects are the lowest form in a social ranking.
Know that as well. Family is eight generations away from Saxony these days, and to this day the Polish side of the family makes fun of "Hawk Deutch" and "High German Beatles" (stink-bugs). Correction of grammar would be appreciated.

How is "Ich" pronounced though?

Phonetic transcription is ɪtʃ

You can produce this sound if you press the sides of your tongue upwards against your palate, leaving an opening in the middle, and then exhale.

the French equivilant of "Alemania" is better, as it means with interpretation (not direct translation here) "the land of German speakers".

Actually, Alemannia is the land of the Alemanni, who are the Germanic people in southern Baden-Wuerttemburg, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Vorarlberg and Alsace. If there's another meaning of Alemannia, I don't know it.

That's rather archaic.


Well, yes and no.
Social ranking in itself is, that's true. But people are conditioned to do that, I guess.
The thought behind classifying people by the way they speak is simply based on the assumption that people who do get good education, go to grammar school and university, need to have mastered the official language, whereas others with lower education don't.
The thing is, everybody understands the official German language, but not everybody is able to speak it. To be honest, I was more than a little surprised when I was working in a factory in my home town during vacation, and I saw how regular workers there struggled to make themselves understood to a fellow-student-employee there who happened to be from a different region of Germany, and try as he might, he couldn't understand their dialect. And they simple weren't able to speak anything but their dialect.

Actually, Alemannia is the land of the Alemanni, who are the Germanic people in Southern Baden-Wuerttemburg, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Vorarlberg and Alsace. If there's another meaning of Alemannia, I don't know it.
I got it from a German first.
Swedish, Danish, and Norweigan: Germany = Tyskland / Finnish: Germany = Saksa / Spanish: Germany = Alemania / French: Germany = Allemagne (I can't spell French) / German: Germany = Deutschland

I can see how the Finnish relates to a Germanic tribe, but nothing else. Apparently Spanish does.

Actually, Alemannia is the land of the Alemanni, who are the Germanic people in southern Baden-Wuerttemburg, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Vorarlberg and Alsace. If there's another meaning of Alemannia, I don't know it.

Italians, Spanish, French, Turkish and some other languages refer to Germany as Allemania/Allemagne

That would be "icke", and it's the accent/dialect spoken in Berlin and Brandenburg. But don't fall for it, you'd just trade one difficulty for another ;)"Icke" if you're referring to "me". "Ick" would be the equivalent of "I".

Actually, Alemannia is the land of the Alemanni, who are the Germanic people in southern Baden-Wuerttemburg, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Vorarlberg and Alsace. If there's another meaning of Alemannia, I don't know it.It gets used to refer to soccer teams (Alemannia Aachen) but the same goes for Prussia (Borussia Dortmund), Bavaria (Bayern München), or the Hanseatic cities (Hansa Rostock).

"Icke" if you're referring to "me". "Ick" would be the equivalent of "I".

So sue me! :D
I'm form Franken, my knowledge of Northern accents and dialects is admittably limited.

He kept it for the Terminator series...
Sarra Canna

So sue me! :D
I'm form Franken, my knowledge of Northern accents and dialects is admittably limited.Ach. It's all "Icke" Häßler's fault. Can't blame you for not knowing the difference if you don't live there :D

The thought behind classifying people by the way they speak is simply based on the assumption that people who do get good education, go to grammar school and university, need to have mastered the official language, whereas others with lower education don't.
I can't understand most Southerners and some Northern East-Coasters, known to some as the Newfie dialect and its variants, but to think less of people on basis of their dialect is archaic. In Sweden and Finland, the Swedes mingle and deal with the differences between dialects. Now, in America and Canada, those are not good examples, per se, as we don't have an "official English". In Sweden, there is standard Swedish, but dialects are encouraged. In Finland, Swedish speakers can run with anything for the most part, as its mostly left up to themselves to regulate thier language. In my opinion, Spain deals well with the diversity of languages. However, most Iberians wouldn't say so. Also, I've never understood why Germany has to say "High German" when a more fiendly term like, "Standard German" works just as well. Unless, of course, it already does.

Is Austrian and Swiss really all that different? Maybe its not German, its Austrian!

I can't understand most Southerners and some Northern East-Coasters, known to some as the Newfie dialect and its variants, but to think less of people on basis of their dialect is archaic. In Sweden and Finland, the Swedes mingle and deal with the differences between dialects. Now, in America and Canada, those are not good examples, per se, as we don't have an "official English". In Sweden, there is standard Swedish, but dialects are encouraged. In Finland, Swedish speakers can run with anything for the most part, as its mostly left up to themselves to regulate thier language. In my opinion, Spain deals well with the diversity of languages. However, most Iberians wouldn't say so. Also, I've never understood why Germany has to say "High German" when a more fiendly term like, "Standard German" works just as well. Unless, of course, it already does.

Is Austrian and Swiss really all that different? Maybe its not German, its Austrian!

Again, you don't think less of a person because he/she can speak dialect. It's a sign of poor education when they can't speak anything else.
Yes, dialects are encouraged locally, but trying to run a country with the Northern half not understanding the Southern half might be a bit tricky. The official language is a cultural necessity.

To translate "Hochdeutsch" as "High German" is actually wrong. "Hoch" in this context doesn't refer to "high", but to "South". Hochdeutsch is based on the Southern variants of German dialects, which in fact belong to a different language group than those of the North, which are referred to as "Plattdeutsch", "low" or "North German".
If you want to translate "Hochdeutsch" into English, go with "official" or "standart" rather than "high".

Actually, he may not be intentionally speaking that way. A few months ago, he actually said something in a speech that was not what he meant and the speech recieved a totally different reaction than was anticipated. As a matter of fact, a negative reaction(:headbang: ). It is hard to tell if this was just an accident or he actually didn't realize he messed up. On something as important as a speech, one would think he would correct himself or not make the mistake to begin with. The media's response,however,was that Arnold needed to refresh on his english. As already mentioned, it's like the guy's trademark, so maybe he is just using his accent now for publicity. It's hard to tell what is going on with the Governator sometimes.

To translate "Hochdeutsch" as "High German" is actually wrong. "Hoch" in this context doesn't refer to "high", but to "South". Hochdeutsch is based on the Southern variants of German dialects, which in fact belong to a different language group than those of the North, which are referred to as "Plattdeutsch", "low" or "North German".
If you want to translant "Hochdeutsch" into English, go with "official" or "standart" rather than "high".Dutch, for instance, is a "low German" language. North German dialects are very similar to the Dutch accented German.

Phonetic transcription is ɪtʃ
No it isn't. That spells "itch". 'Ich' is pronounced with short 'ee' as in 'beep' followed by 'h' as in British English 'huge'.

Hmm...accent and dialect. While I won't bother looking those terms up in a dictionary, I'll just define them myself.

"Accent" is a way of speaking that has come from one's mother tongue while speaking a differnet language. It fiddles with grammar and pronunciation in the other language, if it cannot be hidden. I personally think that one can never fully "lose" and accent, but merely rewire how one thinks.

"Dialect" is way of speaking your mother tongue, but can also be learned while acquiring another language. Again, its grammar and pronunciation, but there can also be other terms for things and ideas.

However, both can be thought of as the other.
You're way off. Accent applies to pronunciation only. It has nothing to do with grammar. And with sufficient training people can lose an accent. Wether or not people succeed in losing an accent has nothing to do with 'rewiring how one thinks', it has to do with (trained) pronunciation and perception of speech.

Dialect is a 'sub-language' which differs from the official language sufficiently to have grammatical differences, or different words (i.e. more than just a different pronunciation of the official language).

So a dialect cannot be thought of as an accent or vice versa. Accent is a property of dialects as it is of any variations of official languages.

To translate "Hochdeutsch" as "High German" is actually wrong. "Hoch" in this context doesn't refer to "high", but to "South". Hochdeutsch is based on the Southern variants of German dialects, which in fact belong to a different language group than those of the North, which are referred to as "Plattdeutsch", "low" or "North German".
If you want to translate "Hochdeutsch" into English, go with "official" or "standart" rather than "high".
That's true, but that doesn't explain the terms "high" and "low". The "Hoch" in Hochdeutsch identifies the geographical south of Germany because this region is at a higher altitude than the "low lands", like the Northern part of Germany or the Netherlands. The terms Plattdeutsch (lit. Flat German) and Nederlands (Dutch for "Dutch", lit. Netherlandish/Lowlandish) both refer to low altitude.

Dutch, for instance, is a "low German" language. North German dialects are very similar to the Dutch accented German.
That should be Low Germanic. I think In English the only name for this group of languages is West Germanic. And Dutch is a Germanic language rather than "Dutch accented German". Dutch and German have way too many linguistic differences to be called eachother's 'dialects' or even 'accents'. They're separate languages from the same language family. It's true that North German dialects are akin to Dutch and Frysian; also Southeastern Dutch dialects are akin to German. Along the German/Dutch border, dialects from both countries are mutually intelligible.

Italians, Spanish, French, Turkish and some other languages refer to Germany as Allemania/Allemagne

Yes, that's probably because the early contact they had with the Germanics would have been with the Alemanni.

To translate "Hochdeutsch" as "High German" is actually wrong. "Hoch" in this context doesn't refer to "high", but to "South". Hochdeutsch is based on the Southern variants of German dialects, which in fact belong to a different language group than those of the North, which are referred to as "Plattdeutsch", "low" or "North German".
If you want to translate "Hochdeutsch" into English, go with "official" or "standart" rather than "high".

Sort of. It's because southern Germany is the highlands. Mountains and such. So, it does actually mean "high," referring to the highlands in B-W, Bavaria, Switzerland, Austria...

No it isn't. That spells "itch". 'Ich' is pronounced with short 'ee' as in 'beep' followed by 'h' as in British English 'huge'.

"beep" has a long "ee", or "i:". The "ee" in "ich" would be short, as in "pit", phonetically spelled "ɪ".
I took the transcript from a web page, personally I would have transcribed it as ɪʃ, a short "ee" followed by a voiceless hissing sound like the first sound in "chin", but without the "t" sound at the very begining.

Wasn't/weren't the Allemania/Allemagne a tribe of Germans North of the Danube who were rather warlike and liked to get in the Romans face abit?

Wasn't/weren't the Allemania/Allemagne a tribe of Germans North of the Danube who were rather warlike and liked to get in the Romans face abit?

They were a German tribe, correct. Like the Bajuvars, the Frankonians, the Saxons, the Cherusks, the Angles, and many, many more ;)
The Franconians gave France its name, the Angle-Saxons gave England its name... Confusing times. Tribes all over the place

Wasn't/weren't the Allemania/Allemagne a tribe of Germans North of the Danube who were rather warlike and liked to get in the Romans face abit?

Yeah, something like that.

They were a German tribe, correct. Like the Bajuvars, the Frankonians, the Saxons, the Cherusks, the Angles, and many, many more ;)
The Franconians gave France its name, the Angle-Saxons gave England its name... Confusing times. Tribes all over the place

Chatti, Marcomanni, Suebi, Jutes... Awesome times.

"beep" has a long "ee", or "i:". The "ee" in "ich" would be short, as in "pit", phonetically spelled "ɪ". I took the transcript from a web page, personally I would have transcribed it as ɪʃ, a short "ee" followed by a voiceless hissing sound like the first sound in "chin", but without the "t" sound at the very begining.
That's why I said short ('ee' as in beep). In English all occurrences of the 'ee' sound are long (as you said). "Ich" doesn't have the /ɪ/ sound as in 'pit', but the short variant of the sound phonetically transcribed as /i/ (not /i:/). The difference between /ɪ/ and /i/ is in frontness and closure, not in length. I suppose /ʃ/ is as close as the transcription allows for "ch"; actually it's not a labiodental sound like English /ʃ/, but a palatal fricative. Agree with /iʃ/?

Pedantics anonymous out. ;)

That should be Low Germanic. I think In English the only name for this group of languages is West Germanic. And Dutch is a Germanic language rather than "Dutch accented German". Dutch and German have way too many linguistic differences to be called eachother's 'dialects' or even 'accents'. They're separate languages from the same language family. It's true that North German dialects are akin to Dutch and Frysian; also Southeastern Dutch dialects are akin to German. Along the German/Dutch border, dialects from both countries are mutually intelligible.You misunderstood me. When Dutch people speak German, it sounds like North Germans speaking German.

And Dutch is a Germanic language rather than "Dutch accented German". Dutch and German have way too many linguistic differences to be called eachother's 'dialects' or even 'accents'.
You tell me whether a third party could actually tell the difference though between this (http://www.plattmaster.de/) (which is recognised as a kind of German by most people) and Dutch.

That's why I said short ('ee' as in beep). In English all occurrences of the 'ee' sound are long (as you said). "Ich" doesn't have the /ɪ/ sound as in 'pit', but the short variant of the sound phonetically transcribed as /i/ (not /i:/). The difference between /ɪ/ and /i/ is in frontness and closure, not in length. I suppose /ʃ/ is as close as the transcription allows for "ch"; actually it's not a labiodental sound like English /ʃ/, but a palatal fricative. Agree with /iʃ/?

Pedantics anonymous out. ;)

I agree with the palatal fricative, which is why I first tried to describe how to produce the sound, rather than finding a similar sound in the English language.
Regarding the "i"-sound, in everyday spoken language it might even be pronouced "ə", as it is a very short "i", the stressed part of the word is the "ʃ"
But yes, we can agree on "iʃ" ;)

You tell me whether a third party could actually tell the difference though between this (http://www.plattmaster.de/) (which is recognised as a kind of German by most people) and Dutch.

I can.

When you speak it, it sounds more like German than Dutch.

I can.

When you speak it, it sounds more like German than Dutch.

Keep in mind that this is a German transcript and does not show you the correct pronounciation, especially not of the vowels. If you pronounce it by Standard German rules, it will sound German. If you pronounce English by standard Spanish pronounciation rules, it will sound Spanish.

Well, duh ... it's because "don't be a girly man" sounds foppish in any other accent.

They were a German tribe, correct. Like the Bajuvars, the Frankonians, the Saxons, the Cherusks, the Angles, and many, many more ;)
The Franconians gave France its name, the Angle-Saxons gave England its name... Confusing times. Tribes all over the place
Yes and the Franks are decended from Paris the Prince of Troy.:)

When you speak it, it sounds more like German than Dutch.
Believe me, if you hear someone really speak it (like my grandma), you will not understand a thing. Even I have trouble following sometimes, and I've known her for 20 years.

Yes and the Franks are decended from Paris the Prince of Troy.:)

*rolfmao

That took a moment....
I always knew that Orlando Bloom has to be one of my anscestors. In a very twisted way.

*rolfmao

That took a moment....
I always knew that Orlando Bloom has to be one of my anscestors. In a very twisted way.
I was being serious.

I'm guessing he learned it rather late in life. Linguistic theories assume that there is a window between being born and approximately your 10th year, in which you have the ability to learn to speak a language without accent. After that, your accent will stay with you, no matter how long you exclusively speak the 2nd language.Really? If I get emersed in another accent then I find myself unconciously imitating it. Within hours of meeting my Australian cousins (when they came over the other month) my sister picked me on speaking with an Australian accent.

I also learnt Castilian Spanish at school. I've forgotten most of it, but when I tried to relearn some of it with a friend who learnt South American Spanish I noticed that there were differences. Around her I pronounced words like she would, but when alone I'd go back to prouncing them how I'd learnt at school.

Again, you don't think less of a person because he/she can speak dialect.
You misinterpret.
It's a sign of poor education when they can't speak anything else.
Its this. You're saying that they have recieved a "poor education" which infers low socio-economic standing.
Yes, dialects are encouraged locally, but trying to run a country with the Northern half not understanding the Southern half might be a bit tricky. The official language is a cultural necessity.
Of course its a necessity, but I'm getting an entirely other vibe from reading your posts with the whole "poor education" thing.
To translate "Hochdeutsch" as "High German" is actually wrong. "Hoch" in this context doesn't refer to "high", but to "South". Hochdeutsch is based on the Southern variants of German dialects, which in fact belong to a different language group than those of the North, which are referred to as "Plattdeutsch", "low" or "North German".
Doesn't the same thing go for "über", as it can denote "higher/super" in a physical and abstract sense? While "Hoch" may imply South (where the Alps are, you could just say that instead of South), it does mean "high", in altitude or elevation. What I'm doing is merely translating, and not interpreting.
You're way off. Accent applies to pronunciation only. It has nothing to do with grammar. And with sufficient training people can lose an accent. Wether or not people succeed in losing an accent has nothing to do with 'rewiring how one thinks', it has to do with (trained) pronunciation and perception of speech.
Training with assume that we are rewiring how we think, as a certain vowel or consonant in ones mother tongue can have a different sound in the language being learned. Training isn't just practicing the obivious, its creating new connections in the brain, and in a very physical sense. As far as grammatical, I think that "accent" can include certain minor grammatical flaws, however it can still be perfectly understood.
Dialect is a 'sub-language' which differs from the official language sufficiently to have grammatical differences, or different words (i.e. more than just a different pronunciation of the official language).
Which is what I said, only you didn't take it that way.
So a dialect cannot be thought of as an accent or vice versa.
Just wait until someone confuses the term, and you'll see.

How is "Ich" pronounced though?
Phonetically it would be "iç" (and certainly *never* "itʃ", it's no English word!).

The German "ch" in "ich" sounds pretty much like the palatized "h" in "huge" or "human", so English speakers should have no problems pronouncing it.

You misinterpret.

Its this. You're saying that they have recieved a "poor education" which infers low socio-economic standing.

Of course its a necessity, but I'm getting an entirely other vibe from reading your posts with the whole "poor education" thing.



I didn't mean to say that I agree with the social stigma, I merely stated that it is there, and gave the reasons for why it exists.
I can't change the fact that people who are not able to speak Standard German just never learned it....

>_>

Never thought about it until today.

Does he keep it for showbusiness? Or does he just speak alot of German? My mom speaks to my grandma about once a month, and she has no trace of an accent.
Hmm, before he became governor, I read somewhere that he actually did consciously keep his strong accent as a trademark thing for his acting career (they said his English improved a LOT away from the cameras...).

But seeing how now that he is governor the accent is, if anything, hurting him more than helping him, that story may not have been true.

I guess he's just not very good at hearing/imitating accents. Some people are, some aren't.

Personally, my spoken English is a pretty good American English. Well, not so very good now, without much practice, but when I lived in the US for a year, I volunteered at the local animal shelter for a couple months, and on the very last day, it turned out that most of the employees had no idea I was German. They could tell that I wasn't from the area, but they just placed me in some other state, nothing specific. I was all proud, until I remembered how incredibly stupid I must have looked all those times when I couldn't think of the word for something stupid like, say, "bowl". Great. :rolleyes:

On the other hand, there was this fellow German student there, who was one of the most impressively intelligent people I've ever met. His English was terrible. Or rather, his English accent was terrible, with all the typical German inflections. His command of the language, however, was flawless.

So yeah, I'm not sure what's better - flawless English with a terrible accent, or a really good accent with the dangers of being assumed to be dim-witted. :p

Isn't the man half deaf?

Isn't the man half deaf?


No- I think you're thinking of Lou Ferrigno.

I havent lived in Brooklyn in a long time, but still carry the accent. Its part of the person.

>_>

Never thought about it until today.

Does he keep it for showbusiness? Or does he just speak alot of German? My mom speaks to my grandma about once a month, and she has no trace of an accent.

It's for publicity. Or it could be the same reason my Mexican coworker, who married an English-speaking man and has lived in the US for roughly 20 years, is still incomprehensible. That is to say, we don't know.

Some people can get rid of the accent fairly easily, some people can't. On his first movie in the US Arnold had to be dubbed because it was impossible to understand him.

Some people can get rid of the accent fairly easily, some people can't. On his first movie in the US Arnold had to be dubbed because it was impossible to understand him.

The really funny thing is that until some years ago, he would never give interviews in German. He insisted in giving them in English and having somebody do a voice-over.

Serioulsy, people in Germany had little to no idea that he had such a strong Austrian accent, and he didn't seem to want them to know about it either. :D

Because Maria wont let him give it up. She likes to hear it in the bedroom.

My dad has lived in America for 20 years and he doesn't have an accent, and he didn't really know English before. Only one person has ever noticed an accent during that entire time, and that was a waiter at Red Robin.