NationStates Jolt Archive

Note that putting someone on the poll does not mean I endorse them, as some of the ones I'm putting on are ones I don't like.


My favorite would probably be the old Mobutu Sese Seko, i.e., in his very early days, before he turned to corruption and became a tyrant.

Since you include Sadat, I get to include Cleopatra... who actually held more power.

Idi Amin for his lunacy, Mobutu Sese Seko for his name and his hat.

Idi Amin for his lunacy, Mobutu Sese Seko for his name and his hat.

Mobutu also had the largest personality cult ever. ;)


In answer to the thread starter's question, I have several favorite African leaders.

Jomo Kenyatta- preached (and practiced) racial harmony, equality, and reconciliation; made Kenya relatively prosperous; and was one of the few people on the left to see the light. He later became a staunch anti-communist (sample quotes: "Some people try deliberately to exploit the colonial hangover for their own purposes, to serve some external force. To us, communism is as bad as imperialism," and "Don't turn to communism looking for food"). Downsides: he was autocratic, nepotistic, tribalistic, and turned a blind eye to corruption.

Félix Houphouët-Boigny- one of my favorite benevolent dictators of all time. When his people complained, he listened. He was lenient toward those who opposed him (and even befriended some people who tried to kill him). He made his country an economic powerhouse, with one of the fastest growing economies in the world. He provided peace and stability. He was also pro-Western and anti-communist (he booted out the Soviet embassy in 1969). Unfortunately, like Kenya, his country experienced massive corruption during his years in power.

Moise Tshombe- pro-Western, anti-communist, and was able to maintain peace, stability, and prosperity in Katanga while the rest of the Congo was besieged with tribalism, chaos, and civil war, until a United Nations "peacekeeping" mission brought all that to an end.

Anwar al-Safat- a moderate and a true statesman who worked to bring peace between Arabs and Israelis.

Idi Amin for his lunacy.

*heh* If you want to see a real lunatic, look at "Emperor" Bokassa! :p

Shaka. Or Hamilcar.

Mobutu also had the largest personality cult ever. ;)


In answer to the thread starter's question, I have several favorite African leaders.

Jomo Kenyatta- preached (and practiced) racial harmony, equality, and reconciliation; made Kenya relatively prosperous; and was one of the few people on the left to see the light. He later became a staunch anti-communist (sample quotes: "Some people try deliberately to exploit the colonial hangover for their own purposes, to serve some external force. To us, communism is as bad as imperialism," and "Don't turn to communism looking for food"). Downsides: he was autocratic, nepotistic, tribalistic, and turned a blind eye to corruption.

Félix Houphouët-Boigny- one of my favorite benevolent dictators of all time. When his people complained, he listened. He was lenient toward those who opposed him (and even befriended some people who tried to kill him). He made his country an economic powerhouse, with one of the fastest growing economies in the world. He provided peace and stability. He was also pro-Western and anti-communist (he booted out the Soviet embassy in 1969). Unfortunately, like Kenya, his country experienced massive corruption during his years in power.

Moise Tshombe- pro-Western, anti-communist, and was able to maintain peace, stability, and prosperity in Katanga while the rest of the Congo was besieged with tribalism, chaos, and civil war, until a United Nations "peacekeeping" mission brought all that to an end.

Anwar al-Safat- a moderate and a true statesman who worked to bring peace between Arabs and Israelis.

I have to agree with you about 80-90%, you're pretty much on the mark.

Actually, I have a personal anecdote about Moise Tshombe. My grandfather was a French Ambassador, and he worked with America during the Kennedy era. He knew that Moise Tshombe was just trying to make peace and prosperity for his people while the Marxist dictator in charge of Congo was ruining everything. He knew that the UN's mission was pretty much total BS, and that Jack Kennedy knew exactly what was going on but didn't care enough to do anything about it. I personally think that the Congo would have been perfectly fine had not the UN stepped in to help the despot trying to put everyone under his thumb, and used tactics completely similar to a dictator (bombings of schools and civilian targets, murders, assassinations, etc.)

Or Hamilcar.

Who?

Who?

Hannibal Barca's papa.

Hannibal Barca's papa.

Merci.

Queen Victoria! ;)

Queen Victoria! ;)

lol, does she even count? ;)

Ah, hell, it's okay. I guess she does. :p

Bump

Since you include Sadat, I get to include Cleopatra... who actually held more power.

Even though she was an Egyption Pharoah, she was actually more Macedonian Greek than Egyptian or African.

Even though she was an Egyption Pharoah, she was actually more Macedonian Greek than Egyptian or African.

Aye.

Octavian, because I'm an asshole.

Seeing as all the options are modern, I assume you mean the best Afriucan leader in modern times. That question assumes that there has been a good modern African leader. Honestly, I can't think of any modern African leader I could say was a good leader. Even Mandela has the taint of ANC terrorism to disqualify him.

Seeing as all the options are modern, I assume you mean the best Afriucan leader in modern times.

I do. But if you have in mind a past one, that's fine.

Seretse Khama

Seretse Khama

Hey, that's Sir Seretse Khama. Show some respect! :p

(kidding)

I like Haile Selassie, but he's not on your poll. Why? I'll choose Nkrumah, though. I heard this song on the BBC the other night (well, early in the morning actually)...

This day will never be forgotten
The sixth day of March, 1957
When the Gold Coast successfully got their independence officially

Chorus:
Ghana, Ghana is the name
Ghana, we wish to proclaim
We will be jolly, merry and gay
The sixth day of March, Independence Day

Dr Nkruma went out his way
To make the Gold Coast what it is today
He endeavored continually
To bring us freedom and liberty

The doctor began as agitator
He became popular leader
He continued to go further
And now he is Ghana's prime minister

The national flag is a lovely scene
With beautiful colors red, gold and green
And a black star in the center
Representing the freedom of Africa

Congratulations from Haille Sallaise
Was proudly received by everybody
He particularly comment
On the Doctor's move to self-government.

Note that putting someone on the poll does not mean I endorse them, as some of the ones I'm putting on are ones I don't like.


My favorite would probably be the old Mobutu Sese Seko, i.e., in his very early days, before he turned to corruption and became a tyrant.
Without a doubt it has to be Nelson Mandela.

Seretse Khama

Hell yes. He was one of the best.

Thomas Sankara. Of the ones on the list, Patrice Lumumba.

Honorable mention: Ahmed Ben Bella. Amilcar Cabral. Oliver Tambo.

Mohamed Farrah Aidid - You've got to love saying that name...it just rolls over the tounge like a piece of cheese...

The Right Honourable Alfred Milner, 1st Viscount Milner. He was a great British statesman and colonial administrator.

Define best...

Most sucsseful, most powerful, greatest contribution to the end of colonialism, advocate for democracy or reform of social equality or what? Also, while Saddat is on the list the list is dominated by black African, what about Arab and white Africans? Also it is dominated by late and post coloial leaders, what about pre-colonial and what about non-heads of state?

My vote would either Joshua Nkomo, Sir Graem Todd for trying to prevent war (and failing); Archbishol Desmond Tutu or Kofi Annan for mediation or reconciliation; Cecil John Rhodes, for shear balls. A better question would be which African leader has caused the least damage to his people, then we would have an interesting debate.

I do. But if you have in mind a past one, that's fine.

Come to think of it, I can name at least one African leader I would call good - although he's not been head of state.

The Most Reverend Desmond Mpilo Tutu is a good man and a good leader. A rare find anywhere, but especially in Africa. :(

--snip--
A better question would be which African leader has caused the least damage to his people, then we would have an interesting debate.

Good class overall, but that last bit was the best. That should be a better topic.

Joshua Nkomo

Isn't he the sick fuck who liked to shoot down civilian planes and then rush over to the scene and kill all the survivors?

Thomas Sankara. Of the ones on the list, Patrice Lumumba.

Honorable mention: Ahmed Ben Bella. Amilcar Cabral. Oliver Tambo.

Nice guys. Commies, dictators, terrorists (including Mr. Throat-Ripper), etc.

Barack Obama, our future president

Barack Obama, our future president


He's not African, he's American. Born in the great state of Hawaii. Funny how he's the democrat golden boy even though he's only served 7 years in the Illinois state senate and just over 1 year as Senator for Illinois. He doesn't stand that much of a chance in 2008. I think in 2012 after two terms as senator he would have a better shot. He seems like a nice guy and is very intelligent. I wouldn't mind seeing him as the first black president or even vice president.

Barack Obama, our future president

lol, he ain't African. :p

Cleopatra was greek, ancient busts and paintings clearly show her as european.

Cleopatra was greek, ancient busts and paintings clearly show her as european.

Firstly, the ethnic differences between North Africans and Souther Europeans is quite small and would have been smaller then. Secondly, the early busts would probably have been made by Greek or Roman artists working for the Romans, eyes of the beholder and all. Thirdly, any dipictions of Cleopatra would probably be highly stylised anyway. Lastly, being African has little to do with race, which is why so many Africans have problems with Black Americans calling themselves African Americans.

Firstly, the ethnic differences between North Africans and Souther Europeans is quite small and would have been smaller then. Secondly, the early busts would probably have been made by Greek or Roman artists working for the Romans, eyes of the beholder and all. Thirdly, any dipictions of Cleopatra would probably be highly stylised anyway. Lastly, being African has little to do with race, which is why so many Africans have problems with Black Americans calling themselves African Americans.

Right on.

In particular to that last point, let's remember that the "racial" classifications most posters consider to be accurate, are not currently considered to be scientific in the least.

My favorite would probably be the old Mobutu Sese Seko, i.e., in his very early days, before he turned to corruption and became a tyrant.
Shaka Zulu (http://www.carpenoctem.tv/military/shaka.html).

Shaka Zulu (http://www.carpenoctem.tv/military/shaka.html).

Baba Shaka (Tshaka, Tsaka or t'Shaka depending on where you comefrom) was a geoncidal.... hold on, that is greatness.

What about Samora Michele...?
Steve Biko
Emperor Tewedros (Theador) of Ethiopia

Baba Shaka (Tshaka, Tsaka or t'Shaka depending on where you comefrom) was a geoncidal.... hold on, that is greatness.

What about Samora Michele...?
Steve Biko
Emperor Tewedros (Theador) of Ethiopia

And that's the rub. When the OPer said that he had modern leaders in mind, I excluded old style leaders on the grounds that they wouldn't be "good" by modern sensibilities. Steven Biko is another good choice.

And that's the rub. When the OPer said that he had modern leaders in mind, I excluded old style leaders on the grounds that they wouldn't be "good" by modern sensibilities. Steven Biko is another good choice.


Is Biko a good choice? I listed him because his absence is notable, but, just as Mandela and all the others, can they count if their pasts are tainted with terrorism/freedom fighting and the bloody route to power. It keeps coming back to the question, what do you mean by great?