NationStates Jolt Archive


Humans to decipher the DNA of God and clone another Christ

Zilam
06-03-2006, 17:33
Cloning may help terrible prophecies come true: another Christ or antichrist

It seems that one of the prophecies made by St. John the Baptist is coming true. “When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth.” And this has nothing to do with mysticism. Researchers say they would like to clone Christ. But with this good intention they on the contrary may get an antichrist. Famous chemist Alan Adler who studied samples of the shroud of Turin, the legendary burial cloth into which Jesus Christ was wrapped after crucifixion, made a sensational statement not long ago.

The researcher said there was blood on the shroud and it was shed by a man who died a violent death.

The University of Texas Center for Advanced DNA Technologies, USA, analyzed the DNA of the bloodstains. Head of the Center Victor Tryon confirmed that was human genetic material. It was divided into several samples and sent to different laboratories for further analysis.

No results of the research have been published yet but there are certainly some. Dr. Leoncio A. Garza-Valdes, one of the few researchers allowed to touch the shroud of Turin is working on his book that will have a shocking name, The DNA of God.

The very abbreviation DNA seemed to be rather common for majority of people a couple of years ago. But today it is a serious cause for anxiety. Indeed, DNA gives researchers an opportunity to produce clones, a copy of any creature whose DNA is available for experiments. Experiments of this type have been already made public: Dolly the sheep became an absolute cloned copy of a sheep whose genetic material, DNA, was available.

Soon, it became clear that cloning humans was also possible. Professor Richard Seed declared he would solve the human cloning problem by the end of the millennium. He said he was seeking a fitting candidate for cloning. Finally, researchers supposed that blood found on the shroud of Turin might be used as genetic material for cloning.

Last year, in an interview to The Time Dr. Leoncio A. Garza-Valdes summed up the decade-long dispute about the authenticity of the shroud of Turin. The researcher said he had no doubts that the shroud of Turin had been Christ’ burial cloth and that it was his blood that stained the cloth.

In 1988, three laboratories from England, Switzerland and the US conducted a radiocarbon analysis and made a conclusion that the fabric of which the shroud was made was produced in the 14th century. In other words, the laboratories stated the shroud was a fake. And it was just recently that the erroneous conclusions were disproved. Russian researchers removed the cause of the doubts.

Russia’s Doctor of chemistry Dmitry Kuznetsov conducted several experiments to persuade his colleagues that they were mistaken when determined the cloth dated back to the 14th century. He said the results of the radiocarbon analysis were distorted with excessive carbon that the fabric absorbed during a fire that the shroud had stood. He stated that in fact the shroud was older than traditionally believed and was at least 2,000 years old.

No so long ago, the Pope who is known for his absolute honesty also answered ‘Yes’ to the question if the shroud was genuine or not.

Some of the prophecies of the past sound particularly mysterious today. It was predicted that there would be another coming of Christ. At the same time it is known there was a prediction telling that an antichrist in the appearance of Christ and in his flesh would come too. In other words, this antichrist may be a fake double of Christ. And this may actually happen thanks to cloning. The prophecy says the antichrist will first of all kill two witnesses of his appearance. Researchers who decided to clone Christ are highly likely to fall the first victims of the antichrist. And then, the usurper and impostor under the guise of Christ, “the man of sin” will personify the absolute negation of God’s commandments and set nations on to deadly fights.

John the Baptist associated coming of an antichrist with the Number of the Beast: “ Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast : for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.” It was for a long period of time that the rebus was a mystery for people. Some even believed a man would come with the Number of the Beast, 666, written on his head.

Today, researchers suppose that the Number of the Beast may be somehow connected with the genetic code indicated in figures. The number 666 may be the sequence of DNA genetic signals or DNA fragments necessary for successful cloning.

It is a proven fact that the image of a human body on the shroud is not a fake. No significant trace of ink, dye or paint has been discovered on the cloth. What is more, it is not clear how the image in the form of a photographic negative appeared at all.

Physics Doctor John Jackson from the US Air Force Academy and the head of the Shroud of Turin Research Project says the fibers of the image were charred to the depth of 15 micron only and just from one side. He adds that hard X-radiation may produce a similar effect. And it is a great mystery what could probably be the source of such strong radiation two thousand of years ago.

There are many things about the shroud that would prove that it was the burial cloth of Christ, such as a Roman coin over the both eyes minted between 29 to 33 AD. The Wounds are consistent with the Gospel account of Christ's ordeal. A) Crown of thorns. B) Bruising of face. C) Shoulder abrasions D) Knee abrasions E) scourage marks F) nail wounds in hands and feet G) wound in side. H ) Legs NOT broken !

People who doubt that the shroud is authentic suppose that probably some hoaxer used the Gospel account of Christ’ sufferings to draw the image on the shroud. And made some mistakes at that. A hole on one of the palms of the image on the shroud allegedly made with a nail evoked much suspicion. It was thought that crucified people had their wrists nailed otherwise palms were not believed to bear the body weight. An experiment conducted on dead bodies revealed that when palms of dead people were nailed exactly at the spot marked on the shroud of Turin the palms could bear the body weight. This is a spot having particular bones protecting the flesh from tearing and the palms from deformation.

Researcher Alan Adler says not log ago researchers discovered traces of exuding liquid blood material right on the shroud. Doctors learnt about the existence of such liquid only in the 20th century. It proves that even a highly-proficient hoaxer had no notion of such liquid and thus could not paint it on the shroud. So, the cloth actually contacted with a human body.

It is important that the liquid analysis confirmed the human who had been wrapped in the cloth died of dehydration and pain shock. Earlier, experts denied the hypothesis that crucified people inevitably died of asphyxia. An experiment conducted involving volunteers proved that the pose of a crucified man caused no problems to breathing and allowed victims stay alive for several days.

The shroud of Turin is a linen sheet into which Christ was wrapped after being taken from the Cross. The ancient linen cloth 14 ft 3 in. long and 3 ft 7 in. wide is kept with special care in a special metal casket in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist, Turin, Italy. Earlier it was believed that the first record of the shroud dated back to 1354. But a recent research conducted by Ian Wilson confirmed that there were earlier records dating back to 1200. These records mentioned a cloth that by many features resembled the shroud of Turin. At that time, the relic was known as the Holy Cloth of Edessa as it was kept in the Turkish city of Edessa.

Secundo Pia of Turin, a lawyer and amateur photographer photographed the Shroud using glass plates for the first time. When he washed the negative plates he was overwhelmed to find a positive image, and realized he was watching the body of the Crucified Jesus!

The shroud of Turin was damaged in a fire in 1532 and stood another fire in April 1998.

Recent studies of the image on the shroud allowed researchers determine the height if Christ; he was about 180cm.

A little-known relic kept in a monastery in Oviedo, Spain, is a swath of an ancient fabric with bloodstains. Recent expertise has revealed that the blood on the cloth is identical to the blood on the shroud of Turin. The cloth of 83x53 cm in size is called Sudarium which means “face cloth” in Latin. Researchers believe it is the cloth with which Christ’ face was covered after he was crucified and was kept folded up in a coffin together with the dead body. Chronicles say that the cloth was removed out of Jerusalem during the war against Persia in 614 A.D. It came to Oviedo in 1113.

Im sorry, but when I saw this I laughed my anus off. Are these people for real? Well in keep with the spirit of things let us argue this point. Can someone clone Jesus? why or why not?
Santa Barbara
06-03-2006, 17:38
If they did clone someone using that blood, AND people believed it was a clone of Jesus (aka Christ aka the Anti-Christ), then what people do based on that belief would become the problem. Religious hysteria + worshipped, divine central figure + end of the world hysteria + widespread fundamentalism = dangerous.
Zilam
06-03-2006, 17:41
If they did clone someone using that blood, AND people believed it was a clone of Jesus (aka Christ aka the Anti-Christ), then what people do based on that belief would become the problem. Religious hysteria + worshipped, divine central figure + end of the world hysteria + widespread fundamentalism = dangerous.


:eek: all the plus signs! math! -runs and hides- but seriously IF it happened, then i agree with you. What people do would determine really what state the world would be in. all i know is that i have to lose my virginity before all the end of the world crap happens. :p
Heron-Marked Warriors
06-03-2006, 17:43
Can someone clone Jesus?

No.

why or why not?

Because.
Megaloria
06-03-2006, 17:45
If they did clone someone using that blood, AND people believed it was a clone of Jesus (aka Christ aka the Anti-Christ), then what people do based on that belief would become the problem. Religious hysteria + worshipped, divine central figure + end of the world hysteria + widespread fundamentalism = dangerous.

Don't forget what'll happen to the icon industry when they get proof that he's not white.
Zilam
06-03-2006, 17:46
No.



Because.
thanks for the insight
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
06-03-2006, 17:50
Don't forget what'll happen to the icon industry when they get proof that he's not white.
Since most experts agree that the shroud is from Middle Ages Europe, "he" probably will turn out white.
The Infinite Dunes
06-03-2006, 17:53
Yes, about the religious relics... they tend to have the ability to clone themselves anyway. In the middle ages they found enough pieces of the one true cross to make a large boat or something similarly absurd. The shroud of Turin is very probably just some a piece of material with the blood of monk from an impoverished monastery.
Letila
06-03-2006, 17:56
Wouldn't DNA that old be rather low quality (especially since the shroud was almost burnt IIRC)?
The Infinite Dunes
06-03-2006, 17:59
Wouldn't DNA that old be rather low quality (especially since the shroud was almost burnt IIRC)?Well since most human DNA is the same all they really need is the important bits that make up less than 1% of the total. Though if he can't make water into wine then we can just say that the god gene got burnt.
Citta Nuova
06-03-2006, 18:00
Don't forget what'll happen to the icon industry when they get proof that he's not white.

Just the hope that he might come out black (or even better: female), would make me say YES, GO FOR IT!

But obviously: No bloody way... We have enough problems as it is, lets not add something like this to it!!!
Call to power
06-03-2006, 18:14
what would Jesus do?
Kroblexskij
06-03-2006, 18:21
Christians wouldn't believe it was jesus anyway, because they think cloning is evil
Kevlanakia
06-03-2006, 18:23
No so long ago, the Pope who is known for his absolute honesty also answered ‘Yes’ to the question if the shroud was genuine or not.

I guess that pretty much settles it. Might as well stop arguing and convert to catholicism, because I've heard he supports the authenticity of that religion too.
Szanth
06-03-2006, 18:30
It's a moot point - there's not only no evidene to suggest it was the shroud Jesus was buried in, but in fact there's evidence against it! Destroyed completely.

Besides, if he was Jesus, he wouldn't have DNA. God wouldn't give his son (or himself, if you're one of those people) a genetic makeup when he could just be there. Genetics gives you the ability to become sick, and ties you down to the laws of the universe. Obviously Jesus isn't tied down to anything, so I highly doubt he'll have ~98% genetic similarities with a chimpanzee, such as we do.
Compuq
06-03-2006, 18:35
Just because he is a clone of Jesus doesnt mean he IS Jesus. The clone could turn out to be nothing like the Jesus in the bible. It all depends on the environment he is raised in. He could become an athest or buddist.

If you cloned Hitler would he try to take over the world? Probably not...
The Infinite Dunes
06-03-2006, 18:37
It's a moot point - there's not only no evidene to suggest it was the shroud Jesus was buried in, but in fact there's evidence against it! Destroyed completely.

Besides, if he was Jesus, he wouldn't have DNA. God wouldn't give his son (or himself, if you're one of those people) a genetic makeup when he could just be there. Genetics gives you the ability to become sick, and ties you down to the laws of the universe. Obviously Jesus isn't tied down to anything, so I highly doubt he'll have ~98% genetic similarities with a chimpanzee, such as we do.So essentially you're saying Jesus wasn't of this universe, and so probably a mass figment of humanities collective imagination? I'm not sure the Pope would be very happy with you suggesting that.
The Infinite Dunes
06-03-2006, 18:39
I guess that pretty much settles it. Might as well stop arguing and convert to catholicism, because I've heard he supports the authenticity of that religion too.I know. He also said condoms were full of little holes that let the HIV virus through. I always knew Durex had a hidden agenda. *nod*
Szanth
06-03-2006, 18:54
So essentially you're saying Jesus wasn't of this universe, and so probably a mass figment of humanities collective imagination? I'm not sure the Pope would be very happy with you suggesting that.

I don't like the pope, or his position.

He wasn't of this universe, and neither is god. Obviously. They're off somewhere else, where we can't comprehend/find/whatever.

Point being, he was there in form, but not in the human sense.
Stolen Dreams
06-03-2006, 18:59
I am an agnostic (I suppose.. or perhaps atheist. IF this arsey god character happens to exist, I want nothing to do with it whatsoever!), but I would definitely like to see someone use the DNA in that shroud to make a new person!

Hopefully they'll end up with either a rather short north african looking woman, or a hunchback, or a person with a congenial mental illness.. or a..
Kroisistan
06-03-2006, 19:18
what would Jesus do?

http://static.flickr.com/6/6312799_58eeca7daf_t.jpg
Deltara
06-03-2006, 19:28
Maybe the cloned Jesus would crush every belief (such as anti-cloning, anti-homosexual etc.), and everything he is supposed to be!

for this reason he should be:

Female
Lesbian
Black
Criminal
Outlaw
Pagan (or even better Catholic)

And so the list could grow.
Stolen Dreams
06-03-2006, 19:30
..or born with an unexplainable mental retardation.
Dicax
06-03-2006, 19:30
Wouldn't DNA that old be rather low quality (especially since the shroud was almost burnt IIRC)?

Red blood cells dont even contain DNA in the first place. Who says the Turin Shroud is even stained with human blood. It could be cow's blood, or red dye. The idea is less plausable than Jurassic Park.
Randomlittleisland
06-03-2006, 19:42
Have these people realised that if they brought Jesus back he'd be jewish? ;)
Letila
06-03-2006, 19:54
Is it just me, or does the idea of cloning Jesus sound a bit like something from Neon Genesis Evangelion?
Endangered
06-03-2006, 20:18
Except that was Adam, not Christ. Great show though : )

As on this matter, there is good evidence that the cloth really IS genuine, if you think about it.

Also, you say would he be the same as Jesus? No, he would be a copy, lets say, he never knew of God or anything, and lived with a family, would he be the same? Thats a tough issue, and one not compaiible with Hitler, as Hitler was a man, not the Son of God.
Randomlittleisland
06-03-2006, 20:29
As on this matter, there is good evidence that the cloth really IS genuine, if you think about it.

Like?
Ruloah
06-03-2006, 20:33
Since Jesus DNA came from Mary, it would just be a continuation of Mary's line.

You can't clone God, since the divine part is not physical, but spiritual. And the clone would have its own unique soul/spirit, just like everyone else...

Matthew 3 (NIV):

16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."


And I would be willing to bet that cloning will always have problems, because we are made to reproduce sexually. Otherwise, we would bud.
Dancing Tree Dwellers
06-03-2006, 20:35
Just because he is a clone of Jesus doesnt mean he IS Jesus. The clone could turn out to be nothing like the Jesus in the bible. It all depends on the environment he is raised in. He could become an athest or buddist.

I find it hard to believe that people still believe in these quirky stories from the bible. There wasn't a Jesus, if there's any truth to this story at all, I'm sure you'd find that the guy was influential to people at that time (much like some cult leaders recently) but with none of the powers he has been credited with. These individuals can create the illusion of being omnipotent and magical (like Copperfield) and their stories be blown up out of all proportion. There'll be nothing magical about this guy should they clone him.
CSW
06-03-2006, 22:06
Since Jesus DNA came from Mary, it would just be a continuation of Mary's line.

You can't clone God, since the divine part is not physical, but spiritual. And the clone would have its own unique soul/spirit, just like everyone else...

Matthew 3 (NIV):

16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."


And I would be willing to bet that cloning will always have problems, because we are made to reproduce sexually. Otherwise, we would bud.

Small hint: A human embryo won't develop, period, without a pair of each chromosomes. Either his count is normal, or he doesn't live.

Besides, the virgin birth is just a catholic myth steming from a mistranslation way back when.
Good Lifes
06-03-2006, 22:16
Is it just me, or does the idea of cloning Jesus sound a bit like something from Neon Genesis Evangelion?
I'm sure there was a "Star-Trek" where they brought back a Klingon God this way.
Luporum
06-03-2006, 22:16
Bring on the apocolypse!

This should be very interesting.
Good Lifes
06-03-2006, 22:22
Small hint: A human embryo won't develop, period, without a pair of each chromosomes. Either his count is normal, or he doesn't live.

Besides, the virgin birth is just a catholic myth steming from a mistranslation way back when.
I understand there are XXY females. And it has been speculated that there is a remote possibility that a split could occur which would cause an XX egg and a Y egg OR an XY egg and a X egg. Either the XX or the XY could cause virgin birth.

Before you argue, I'm not a biology major and don't know this to be true, but have seen such speculation.
CSW
06-03-2006, 22:26
I understand there are XXY females. And it has been speculated that there is a remote possibility that a split could occur which would cause an XX egg and a Y egg OR an XY egg and a X egg. Either the XX or the XY could cause virgin birth.

Before you argue, I'm not a biology major and don't know this to be true, but have seen such speculation.
No. Sex chromosomes are a different game then somatic chromosomes. You'd need a massive nondisjunction to get a complete pair of chromosomes, which would be...rare. On the order of next to impossible. And I'm pretty sure such a child would never come to term, as it still needs a male set of genes to at least get started.

(That is, genes from a male. Imprinting. Not too sure, as fetal genetics isn't my forte, but what you've suggested is most likely impossible)
Anarchic Conceptions
06-03-2006, 22:26
Is it just me, or does the idea of cloning Jesus sound a bit like something from Neon Genesis Evangelion?

Well the whole thing sounds very similar to The Brentford Chain-store Massacre by Robert Rankin

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/055214357X/qid=1141680281/sr=8-15/ref=pd_ka_15/202-0596736-4170266

Synopsis
There is nothing more powerful than a bad idea whose time has come. And there can be few ideas less bad or more potentially apocalyptic than that hatched by genetic scientist Dr Stephen Malone. Using DNA strands extracted from the dried blood on the Turin Shroud, Dr Malone is cloning Jesus.
Ifreann
06-03-2006, 22:33
Unless I missed something big, isn't cloning humans illegal? So if this substance turns out to be blood and has DNA, then there won't be any Clone Jesus' running round. Not for a while anyway.

And I can see huge numbers of Christians throwing aside their differences to stop Jesus being desacrated by being born of someone who isn't a virgin and free of sin and most likely being stillborn with horrible disfigurations, like internal organs being external.
Forfania Gottesleugner
06-03-2006, 22:46
I think they should definately clone Jesus. Then we can pretend to love him and when he isn't paying attention we'll nail his ass back up to the fucking cross and laugh about it. All this so thousands of years later people can murder eachother over desputes of how cool he really was. Sign me up.
Letila
06-03-2006, 22:53
I'm sure there was a "Star-Trek" where they brought back a Klingon God this way.

Oh yeah, good point. Now I remember.
Etothepitimesiplusone
06-03-2006, 23:24
Why clone Jesus when you can clone an ARMY of Jesuses (Jesui?)?! :D
San haiti
06-03-2006, 23:37
An experiment conducted involving volunteers proved that the pose of a crucified man caused no problems to breathing and allowed victims stay alive for several days.

They crucified people for research? please tell me I misunderstood that.
Dinaverg
06-03-2006, 23:42
Why clone Jesus when you can clone an ARMY of Jesuses (Jesui?)?! :D

Jesi.
Anarchic Conceptions
06-03-2006, 23:42
They crucified people for research? please tell me I misunderstood that.

There are limit to the things that you can test with monkeys. ;)
Etothepitimesiplusone
06-03-2006, 23:45
Jesi.
Thank you. Anyway, an army of Jesi, that would be cool.
San haiti
06-03-2006, 23:48
There are limit to the things that you can test with monkeys. ;)

The monkeys volunteered? well at least they gave them a choice. Unless they were "volunteered".
Ifreann
06-03-2006, 23:53
Thank you. Anyway, an army of Jesi, that would be cool.

Think how much wine we could make.......


Think how much Christians would pay for it!!!!

And we could sell some Jesus blood to vampires.....

And some bodies to cannibals.....
Etothepitimesiplusone
06-03-2006, 23:57
There could be enough for everyone to have their very own crucifixion!
Smag and Smog
07-03-2006, 00:10
Some of the prophecies of the past sound particularly mysterious today. It was predicted that there would be another coming of Christ. At the same time it is known there was a prediction telling that an antichrist in the appearance of Christ and in his flesh would come too. In other words, this antichrist may be a fake double of Christ. And this may actually happen thanks to cloning.

Just a thought, but maybe the antichrist is coming anyway, and cloning Jesus is humanity's final test: to produce our own saviour. Isn't it great how differently you can read prohecies...

We could even start another religion overit.
Demonsthenes II
07-03-2006, 00:27
Im sorry, but when I saw this I laughed my anus off. Are these people for real? Well in keep with the spirit of things let us argue this point. Can someone clone Jesus? why or why not?

They can clone the body. But the body is only the temple. The spirit is the most important part of any person's body. Therefore they cannot clone Jesus the Divine Christ but they can clone Jesus the Man.
Kyronea
07-03-2006, 01:32
I'm sure there was a "Star-Trek" where they brought back a Klingon God this way.
It was actually a Klingon warrior-hero, who ended up becoming idolized as the founder of the current Klingon culture.

BUT THAT'S BESIDE THE POINT.

On the subject: Was there a man named Jesus? Yes. Was he the son of God? No. Because God does not exist. In fact, there were a large number of peeps around the same time claiming to be Messiahs and all that jazz. Jesus just happened to be lucky enough to be idolized. I'll betcha, if there is an afterlife, everytime someone goes up to the dead Jesus and asks him if he's the son of God or some such crap he laughs his head off.

'Course there's no proof of an afterlife, so that probably doesn't exist either.