NationStates Jolt Archive

What are your views on the Black Panthers, I just read an article stating that Chicago may name a street after a slayed black panther. Do you think its right to honor these people, or do you beleive they are just another black militant cop killing hate group. Aka, the Black KKK.

Black Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panthers)

The article I was just talking about

Da Article (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/NATION/603050388/1020/rss09)

So, as this group was a notorious cop killer, the Chicago police station is obviously against this movement. The question is, how do you see them?

Was the police slaughtering and violence justifiable?

Damn the man! Power to the people!

The idealogy was excellent on some points, decent on others, and understandable even at the worst.

The practice fell noticeably short, however.

I have never heard of the Black Panters. You have a link or shall I just Google it?

I have never heard of the Black Panters. You have a link or shall I just Google it?

I'm gonna post links to the article im talking about and the black panthers....so if you want to wait, wait...if not happy goOoOogling.

I have never heard of the Black Panters. You have a link or shall I just Google it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panthers

The idealogy was excellent on some points, decent on others, and understandable even at the worst.

The practice fell noticeably short, however.

noticeably short?

They fought an all out war against the American police force....lol.!?!?

They fought an all out war against the American police force....lol.!?!?

The peons of an apartheid state.

The peons of an apartheid state.

Yeah but come on, your a Swedish pacifist....should violence be the answer?

Espeacily if its directed at your nations police force?

Damn anarchists is what they were. :p

Yeah but come on, your a Swedish pacifist....should violence be the answer?

Espeacily if its directed at your nations police force?

I see no problem with kicking segregationist ass when so warranted.

Damn anarchists is what they were. :p

They scared whitey good.

I have only one thing to say about this:

I once lamented that I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet.

Enjoy.

The Black Panthers were very violent and very militant and pushed the boundaries of morality in their killings. But, the black populace of America had been being killed, murdered, lynched, subjugated, demeaned and tortured for hundreds of years. The oppression of minority groups througout history is shameful and shows the hate and predjudice that humans can live with and call right.

The Goddess created us all, in every type - from crazy to genius - from barely capable of survival to highly able to do anything.

If you like quoting parables - fight fire with fire, and eye for an eye, in the name of (insert deity name) - anything can be justified.

I see no problem with kicking segregationist ass when so warranted.



They scared whitey good.

Uh...the North was hardly segregationist.....:rolleyes:

So no, it was NOT warranted.

Eh...we managed, whos around still...our police force, or them? ;)

I have only one thing to say about this:

I once lamented that I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet.

Enjoy.

Dude, you come back from "being with religious people" and now your a "philosophizer"....(copy righted by Derek Zoolander)

The Black Panthers were very violent and very militant and pushed the boundaries of morality in their killings. But, the black populace of America had been being killed, murdered, lynched, subjugated, demeaned and tortured for hundreds of years. The oppression of minority groups througout history is shameful and shows the hate and predjudice that humans can live with and call right.

The Goddess created us all, in every type - from crazy to genius - from barely capable of survival to highly able to do anything.

If you like quoting parables - fight fire with fire, and eye for an eye, in the name of (insert deity name) - anything can be justified.

:p LOL...your one of those!

noticeably short?

They fought an all out war against the American police force....lol.!?!?

Hardly an "all-out war."

They understood that assimilationism would not bring out black liberation, and correctly moved from that to a broader condemnation of the US system. That is the best in their ideology, especially when it brought them (at least some of them) to make overtures to white left-wing political groupings, to the Gay Liberation Front, and to the feminist movement.

They shared with American culture a sort of phallic veneration for weaponry and violence, and that was unfortunate, because it ultimately impeded their efforts and delegitimized their insights.

In practice, they tended to lack the "unified struggle" attitude present in some strains of their ideology, and some of them were most definitely corrupt.

Uh...the North was hardly segregationist.....:rolleyes:

So no, it was NOT warranted.

The US was an apartheid state. It got what was coming to it.

Eh...we managed, whos around still...our police force, or them? ;)

Seeing as there is at least the semblance of the police not being racist now, even if US police manage to prove that presumption wrong on a regular basis, the ideas lived on. They're more important than the individuals in this case.

:p LOL...your one of those!


Is this supposed to mean something? Those ? What????

Does a persons spirituality affect the truth of their words?

The peons of an apartheid state.

Perhaps so, but aside from moral questions, violently challenging the US state apparatus was just stupid and impractical, and brought nothing but unnecessary death.

Hardly an "all-out war."

They understood that assimilationism would not bring out black liberation, and correctly moved from that to a broader condemnation of the US system. That is the best in their ideology, especially when it brought them (at least some of them) to make overtures to white left-wing political groupings, to the Gay Liberation Front, and to the feminist movement.

They shared with American culture a sort of phallic veneration for weaponry and violence, and that was unfortunate, because it ultimately impeded their efforts and delegitimized their insights.

In practice, they tended to lack the "unified struggle" attitude present in some strains of their ideology, and some of them were most definitely corrupt.

I dont care what the hell their motives were, they fought against police and the man, instead of going out to get a job and assimilating like every other ethnic group did before them. Blacks arnt unique....they dont deserve unique treatment.....They should just integrate into America like the Catholics did before them, and the Jews did before them....and the Italians did before them, and the Irish did before them.....

The US was an apartheid state. It got what was coming to it.



Seeing as there is at least the semblance of the police not being racist now, even if US police manage to prove that presumption wrong on a regular basis, the ideas lived on. They're more important than the individuals in this case.

Again, no...the North was not apartheid...the south was and the Black Panthers operated in the North.

Also...there are many regions of American, the south is just one of them. The south hardly represents the rest of America.

Oh...could it be the police fight against blacks more than other races because blacks commit more crimes....:eek:

Look it up.

Is this supposed to mean something? Those ? What????

Does a persons spirituality affect the truth of their words?

Its supposed to mean that I was refering to you refering to your female goddess.....also, it doesnt affect the truth to your words if there is no truth there to begin with.

I dont care what the hell their motives were, they fought against police and the man, instead of going out to get a job and assimilating like every other ethnic group did before them.

Which ethnic group was "before them"? The Native Americans? They didn't assimilate, they were slaughtered.

Blacks arnt unique....they dont deserve unique treatment.....

They don't want unique treatment, either. They want equality, which White America has been perpetually denying them for centuries.

Perhaps so, but aside from moral questions, violently challenging the US state apparatus was just stupid and impractical, and brought nothing but unnecessary death.

But they were oh, so rebellion chic. Extra points for that.

The left's love affair with the Black Panthers speaks legions about how phony their hatred of racism is. The left is very selective about racism. Racism against whites is tolerated, even welcomed. Racism against other ethnic backgrounds is taboo. Double standards, anyone?

But they were oh, so rebellion chic. Extra points for that.

I love you. :p

Which ethnic group was "before them"? The Native Americans? They didn't assimilate, they were slaughtered.



They don't want unique treatment, either. They want equality, which White America has been perpetually denying them for centuries.

First, way to totally ignore my point and thus prove that you had nothnig to say back to it.

Second, they do want unique treatment, its called affirmitive action and welfare.

Read about it sometime.

The left's love affair with the Black Panthers speaks legions about how phony their hatred of racism is. The left is very selective about racism. Racism against whites is tolerated, even welcomed. Racism against other ethnic backgrounds is taboo. Double standards, anyone?

I totally agree.

I wonder if its only like this in America, or if its like this everywere.

Again, no...the North was not apartheid...the south was and the Black Panthers operated in the North.

Also...there are many regions of American, the south is just one of them. The south hardly represents the rest of America.

The Northern police defended the same power structures.

Oh...could it be the police fight against blacks more than other races because blacks commit more crimes....:eek:

Look it up.

They are also much more likely to be poor and disenfranchised - the lower class that is always overrepresented in crime statistics - and are much more likely to be found guilty to crimes.

The US was an apartheid state.

Oh my God. That's so fucking retarded it's not even funny. Segregation at its worst was a paradise compared to apartheid at its least repressive. The mildest aspects of apartheid far exceeded the most extreme forms of U.S. segregation. Comparing U.S. segregation to apartheid is like comparing grapes to watermelons.

I love you. :p

You have to appreciate those black men's sense of style. Gives me a hard-on just thinking about it, with the über-hot guns and leather attire.

The Northern police defended the same power structures.



They are also much more likely to be poor and disenfranchised - the lower class that is always overrepresented in crime statistics - and are much more likely to be found guilty to crimes.

What the hell is that supposed to mean???


You know what, somehow, every other ethnic group that came to America dealt with it. Catholics were hated by Protestants, but they got it. Jews were hated by Catholics and protestants, but they got it. Irish were hated by English, but they got it.

It seems blacks just have this problem and I honestly dont know why.

Your poll doesn't cover all reasonable options, it only offers extremes. One can think that the struggle against an unjust society was good while also thinking the violent methods often used were bad. Violence (by the black panthers) as a response to violence (of centuries of slavery and segregation) merely breeds further violence. It's an endless cycle which can only be broken when someone stand up and changes things.

Oh my God. That's so fucking retarded it's not even funny. Segregation at its worst was a paradise compared to apartheid at its least repressive. The mildest aspects of apartheid far exceeded the most extreme forms of U.S. segregation. Comparing U.S. segregation to apartheid is like comparing grapes to watermelons.

A lot of USians react like you just did, excusing and minimising the suffering their nation caused to an ethnic minority, because they cannot face the true shame of their history.

It seems blacks just have this problem and I honestly dont know why.

That's exactly your problem: You don't know why.

The left's love affair with the Black Panthers speaks legions about how phony their hatred of racism is. The left is very selective about racism. Racism against whites is tolerated, even welcomed. Racism against other ethnic backgrounds is taboo. Double standards, anyone?

The Black Panthers were not really racists, at least not ideologically. They were opposed to their oppression, and struggled to end it, but they understood that the oppression of the US system was not only targeted against them.

They had the sort of unified analysis that was lacking in the Old Left "class struggle" rhetoric and is lacking in today's identity politics organizations. Martin Luther King Jr. was moving towards such an analysis when he was murdered, which is quite possibly why he was.

Second, they do want unique treatment, its called affirmitive action and welfare.

Affirmative action and welfare are both designed to counteract societal structures of oppression. If we were color-blind and class-blind, pretending that inequities didn't exist out of concern for nominal equality, we would be tolerating and legitimizing oppression.

A lot of USians react like you just did, excusing and minimising the suffering their nation caused to an ethnic minority, because they cannot face the true shame of their history.

Because only someone of cataclysmic ignorance would find the two comparable. It's like comparing Franco (who killed about 30,000) to Hitler (who killed millions).

A lot of USians react like you just did, excusing and minimising the suffering their nation caused to an ethnic minority, because they cannot face the true shame of their history.

Thats strange, what the hell are USians?

What the hell is that supposed to mean???
You know what, somehow, every other ethnic group that came to America dealt with it. Catholics were hated by Protestants, but they got it. Jews were hated by Catholics and protestants, but they got it. Irish were hated by English, but they got it.
It seems blacks just have this problem and I honestly dont know why.
No other 'ethnic' groups were kidnapped and forced to be slaves for a couple centuries, and then even after supposedly 'freed' from slavery, still treated as far less than human for another century. Are you really so unimaginative as to not be able to concieve of how that might build animosity?

Oh my God. That's so fucking retarded it's not even funny. Segregation at its worst was a paradise compared to apartheid at its least repressive. The mildest aspects of apartheid far exceeded the most extreme forms of U.S. segregation. Comparing U.S. segregation to apartheid is like comparing grapes to watermelons.

Magdha, I can see the point in you trying to refute the complete BULLSHIT Fass comes out with on this (and every other issue and thread besides) on the Black Panthers.

However, you must know, that Fass is so blind, so ignorant of reality, so warped his mind is by communist gangster propaganda, that Fass will never see sense or make any sense for that matter.

The trouble with Fass, is that he is unable to think in a logical and rational manner, thus your responses to his nonsense are just wasting your time.

But I do agree with you, the Black Panthers were either terrorists or just common gangsters who tried to give their crimes (most of which were bank robberies and stealing money/goods) a more 'repectable' agenda.

That's exactly your problem: You don't know why.

Let me guess...something that ended over 100 years ago?

Slavery.....

Well get over it.

I'm Jewish and I dont hold the world accountable for the holocaust, so I dont think blacks should hold everyone accountable for slavery.

It seems blacks just have this problem and I honestly dont know why.

For a recent example of why they obstinately maintain their "problem," see "Katrina."

The Black Panthers were not really racists, at least not ideologically. They were opposed to their oppression, and struggled to end it, but they understood that the oppression of the US system was not only targeted against them.

They had the sort of unified analysis that was lacking in the Old Left "class struggle" rhetoric and is lacking in today's identity politics organizations. Martin Luther King Jr. was moving towards such an analysis when he was murdered, which is quite possibly why he was.



Affirmative action and welfare are both designed to counteract societal structures of oppression. If we were color-blind and class-blind, pretending that inequities didn't exist out of concern for nominal equality, we would be tolerating and legitimizing oppression.

No, we should be color blind. We shouldnt make judgements based on, oh hes a cute little chocolate man, extra points for him!!!!

Let me guess...something that ended over 100 years ago?

Slavery.....

Well get over it.

I'm Jewish and I dont hold the world accountable for the holocaust, so I dont think blacks should hold everyone accountable for slavery.

Wow, you truly don't get it. Racism didn't end with slavery. It took until the end of the 1960s for your country to abolish segregation. The 1960s! And you all is fine and dandy now, when it took so long between slavery and that? Please. Get a clue.

Wow, you truly don't get it. Racism didn't end with slavery. It took until the end of the 1960s for your country to abolish segregation. The 1960s! And you all is fine and dandy now, when it took so long between slavery and that? Please. Get a clue.

Thats still almost 50 years ago!

And thats only in the South...Blacks have problems all over the country.

God, stop basing your statements of my country on what happend in the South.

No, we should be color blind. We shouldnt make judgements based on, oh hes a cute little chocolate man, extra points for him!!!!
That only works when we're not making people's live harder based on ethnicity. But, seeing are you're obviously an entirely clueless middle or upper middle class white male, it's sadly not terribly surprising that you fail to even begin to be able to comprehend the issues facing people who are treated as less based on gender or race or sexuality. Every comment you've made in this thread has shown you to be part of the problem with this culture.

Because only someone of cataclysmic ignorance would find the two comparable. It's like comparing Franco (who killed about 30,000) to Hitler (who killed millions).

And for some reason, your 30000 are worth less than those millions. You are less bad, in that you were not quite as bad as you could have been. Apart from the fact that you actually were, your minimising attempts to erase the shame of slavery and the shame of the ongoing denigration of black people that went on well into the second half of the 20th century notwithstanding. Oh, "but we weren't as bad as they were towards the end of it, and that erases what preceded it," right?

Wow, you truly don't get it. Racism didn't end with slavery. It took until the end of the 1960s for your country to abolish segregation. The 1960s! And you all is fine and dandy now, when it took so long between slavery and that? Please. Get a clue.

Abolish legal segregation. We still have a pretty segregated country, only we do it economically these days, with depressingly similar results.

A blatant failure of assimilationism, but not one most people are prepared to discuss; it's easier to blame black people for their oppression.

No, we should be color blind. We shouldnt make judgements based on, oh hes a cute little chocolate man, extra points for him!!!!

We should indeed make judgements based on context. If people are discriminated against because of their race, then we should acknowledge this in our practices, instead of pretending it doesn't exist in order to maintain the impression of fake, nominal "equality."

Wow, you truly don't get it. Racism didn't end with slavery. It took until the end of the 1960s for your country to abolish segregation. The 1960s! And you all is fine and dandy now, when it took so long between slavery and that? Please. Get a clue.


Its 2006 and racism is still so fresh in the minds of some that you can smell it. I have seen white mothers shun black children because they didnt want their precious white children playing with them on the playground. I actually heard one woman say 'we dont play with colored children." My god.

I live in a place where it is still very thick and still very ugly(Ga and several other southern states). I dont know if it's as bad in other areas of the US. Slavery may very well be over but racism has a long way to go.

Thats still almost 50 years ago!

50 years ago is a piss in the ocean. It may seem like a long time for someone whose country is only 200 years old and relatively devoid of history, but it really is a shockingly recent event for something so heinous.

And thats only in the South...Blacks have problems all over the country.

God, stop basing your statements of my country on what happend in the South.

"Waah, my country isn't my country! That happened in Helsingia, not in Angermannia!"

And for some reason, your 30000 are worth less than those millions. You are less bad, in that you were not quite as bad as you could have been. Apart from the fact that you actually were, your minimising attempts to erase the shame of slavery and the shame of the ongoing denigration of black people that went on well into the second half of the 20th century notwithstanding. Oh, "but we weren't as bad as they were towards the end of it, and that erases what preceded it," right?

You obviously know nothing about apartheid. Calling U.S. segregation "apartheid" is so completely stupid it's not even funny.

Its 2006 and racism is still so fresh in the minds of some that you can smell it. I have seen white mothers shun black children because they didnt want their precious white children playing with them on the playground. I actually heard one woman say 'we dont play with colored children." My god.

I live in a place where it is still very thick and still very ugly(Ga and several other southern states). I dont know if it's as bad in other areas of the US. Slavery may very well be over but racism has a long way to go.

I don't often agree with you Peechland, but kudos.

You obviously know nothing about apartheid. Calling U.S. segregation "apartheid" is so completely stupid it's not even funny.

Continue with the denial and trivialising. It is habitual to your kind.

Its 2006 and racism is still so fresh in the minds of some that you can smell it. I have seen white mothers shun black children because they didnt want their precious white children playing with them on the playground. I actually heard one woman say 'we dont play with colored children." My god.

I live in a place where it is still very thick and still very ugly(Ga and several other southern states). I dont know if it's as bad in other areas of the US. Slavery may very well be over but racism has a long way to go.

I live in an extremely liberal area, but it's obvious here, too.

The US is a very racist country, in a wide variety of ways. The attitudes towards the rest of the world are one blatant example, but domestic policy positions are similar. Racism is a major reason why the hatred of the welfare state is so intense here.

50 years ago is a piss in the ocean. It may seem like a long time for someone whose country is only 200 years old and relatively devoid of history, but it really is a shockingly recent event for something so heinous.



"Waah, my country isn't my country! That happened in Helsingia, not in Angermannia!"

Ok, so you just ignore my point? :rolleyes:

For a recent example of why they obstinately maintain their "problem," see "Katrina."

That's an example of incompetence, not racism.

Continue with the denial and trivialising. It is habitual to your kind.

In the South, blacks were attacked with fire hoses and dogs. In South Africa, they were attacked with guns. The U.S. never bulldozed blacks' homes and trucked them off to deserts to live in squalid, overcrowded boxes. We never forced them to carry passes, or took away their citizenship, or allocated 1/16th the amount we spent on white education on them (we did seriously underfund black education, but not to the extent S. Africa did), or banned multiracial political parties, or imposed travel restrictions on them, etc. Need I continue?

Ok, so you just ignore my point? :rolleyes:

You had none except a quite similar excuse as "oh, but the holocaust didn't happen as much in North Rhine-Westphalia as it did in Rhineland-Palatinate, and thus it really is unfair to blame Germany" for the actions of your country.

You obviously know nothing about apartheid. Calling U.S. segregation "apartheid" is so completely stupid it's not even funny.
Segregation, whether de facto or legislated, is no laughing matter. The end results are identical.

You're deluding yourself if you feel that the US is on moral high ground versus the past shame of SA.

I don't often agree with you Peechland, but kudos.

Which is odd to me because we have the same views on many things. Why even my brother is gay....


In any case, people who think black people still arent oppressed are wrong. I've overheard realtors say "I'm not renting to them, theyre black and you know what that means." I've witnessed people toss applications and resumes of black applicants the minute they laid eyes on them. (sooo illegal) The list is long of examples of racism that I've seen, and will see again tomorrow. It saddens me when black children are walking down the street or playing in the park happily until a white person walks by and they get all quiet and the laughter ceases. Yes that goes on. Today.

The trouble with Fass, is that he is unable to think in a logical and rational manner, thus your responses to his nonsense are just wasting your time.

No kidding.

Continue with the denial and trivialising. It is habitual to your kind.

Thats rich coming from you!

Is this not the same Fass who also supports the tyranny in Venezuela and the terrorist regime in Cuba, keeping in mind that Cuba has killed 10,000s in their terrorist activities across the globe, making the monster Castro, way, way, more dangerous than Bin Laden and his followers.

Ok, so you just ignore my point?]

The Atlantian islands, don't expect him to change, you will continue to be on the recieving end of Fass's ignorance, for ignorance is the only thing that makes a communist.

In the South, blacks were attacked with fire hoses and dogs. In South Africa, they were attacked with guns. The U.S. never bulldozed blacks' homes and trucked them off to deserts to live in squalid, overcrowded boxes. We never forced them to carry passes, or took away their citizenship, or allocated 1/16th the amount we spent on white education on them (we did seriously underfund black education, but not to the extent S. Africa did), or banned multiracial political parties, or imposed travel restrictions on them, etc. Need I continue?

Yes, you did. Slavery, remember? And you did have them in horrible conditions. And you did ban interracial mixing. And you did refuse them citizenship by not allowing them to vote, or when they finally could, failing them at exams only they had to take. And you did lynch them!

Thats still almost 50 years ago!

And thats only in the South...Blacks have problems all over the country.

God, stop basing your statements of my country on what happend in the South.

You make the same mistake a lot of white Americans do, the idea that somehow the law is magical. It was the cause of racism, supposedly, and now that it's gone, everything is fixed, except for the laziness and stupidity of black people.

No. Racism remains. Discrimination remains. The systems of oppression remain, only they aren't so overt anymore.

That's an example of incompetence, not racism.

Poor, black people have next to no power, and that's the only reason why incompetence like that can occur.

The same is not true for more privileged sectors.

chicago is finally getting around to embracing it's radical history. lucy parsons park, the official haymarket memorial, etc. it's quite nice actually.

now if only we could get the police union to stop whining about the fact that they murdered a whole bunch of heroes over the years who are going to be honored now.

[You make the same mistake a lot of white Americans do, the idea that somehow the law is magical. It was the cause of racism, supposedly, and now that it's gone, everything is fixed, except for the laziness and stupidity of black people.

No. Racism remains. Discrimination remains. The systems of oppression remain, only they aren't so overt anymore.

Looks like someone has been taking way too many drugs!

Thats rich coming from you!

As rich as you calling upon rationality and logic when spewing your religious and racist filth. You really are a pathetically transparent troll.

You make the same mistake a lot of white Americans do, the idea that somehow the law is magical. It was the cause of racism, supposedly, and now that it's gone, everything is fixed, except for the laziness and stupidity of black people.

well it must be that - we're god's perfect chosen people, it can't be our fault

Thats rich coming from you!

Is this not the same Fass who also supports the tyranny in Venezuela and the terrorist regime in Cuba, keeping in mind that Cuba has killed 10,000s in their terrorist activities across the globe, making the monster Castro, way, way, more dangerous than Bin Laden and his followers.



The Atlantian islands, don't expect him to change, you will continue to be on the recieving end of Fass's ignorance, for ignorance is the only thing that makes a communist.


You know, youre on a very thin line of flaming here. You dont have to attack people directly.

Yes, you did. Slavery, remember? And you did have them in horrible conditions. And you did ban interracial mixing. And you did refuse them citizenship by not allowing them to vote, or when they finally could, failing them at exams only they had to take. And you did lynch them!

I wasn't talking about slavery, though. And blacks did have the right to vote during segregation (although poll taxes, etc. prevented them from doing so, they could legally vote). If you compare slavery to apartheid, you'll get no argument from me. But comparing apartheid and segregation is much different, because however bad they both were, the former was far worse than the latter.

No kidding.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10407100&postcount=28
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10523069&postcount=3
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10515933&postcount=41

Oh, look, what nice company you keep, to help you in your denial.

now if only we could get the police union to stop whining about the fact that they murdered a whole bunch of heroes over the years who are going to be honored now.

If you were a policemen, I'm pretty sure you would be upset that taxpayers and government money is being spent on glorifying terrorists, gangsters and their ilk, when so many of your fellow policemen were the victims of Black Panther terrorism.

It's a sad day for the US, when the government has too spend money on giving public display of glory to people who spent their lives using murder and violence to overthrow the government.

I fear where the US is going, the Left is becoming way too strong in America, US government policy is yet again warped by far-left influence.

You know, youre on a very thin line of flaming here. You dont have to attack people directly.

So what? Fass does all the time.

I wasn't talking about slavery, though. And blacks did have the right to vote during segregation (although poll taxes, etc. prevented them from doing so, they could legally vote). If you compare slavery to apartheid, you'll get no argument from me. But comparing apartheid and segregation is much different, because however bad they both were, the former was far worse than the latter.

There it is again: "But the law was this. It's just that reality was different. But the law was this!" And if you want to call it apartheid lite, go ahead. We all know what it was. You just run to your anti-Semitic and racist buddy Kravania to support your belief that we don't.

I', in a school house called the black panthers...

yeah big deal, these guys shoot a few white cops. As far as I'm aware, they're nowehere near as notorious as our own KKK.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10407100&postcount=28
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10523069&postcount=3
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10515933&postcount=41

Oh, look, what nice company you keep, to help you in your denial.

FYI, I have nothing against homosexuals. Who people sleep with is of no concern to me, provided both partners are both human, both of age, and both consent.

If you were a policemen, I'm pretty sure you would be upset that taxpayers and government money is being spent on glorifying

...people that the guys on my side had murdered.


maybe. perhaps that helps explain why i'm not a policeman.

Looks like someone has been taking way too many drugs!

Your speculations about my lifestyle have pretty much all been false since the first time you did this, though I would probably be a lot happier if some were true.

Give it up; you have no idea who I am, what I do, and how I behave, and you certainly cannot tell by my political views.

I fear where the US is going, the Left is becoming way too strong in America, US government policy is yet again warped by far-left influence.

What particular US are you talking about? It can't be the one on Planet Earth.

FYI, I have nothing against homosexuals. Who people sleep with is of no concern to me, provided both partners are both human, both of age, and both consent.

"Don't watch that poor excuse of a 'film' called Munich.
What do you expect, coming from a lying Jew like Speilberg. He is hardly a source to use in this is he?
The best thing America can do is to overturn the Jewish lobby that holds hostage your nation and government and cut your ties with that cesspool called 'Israel'.
Why should America waste it's money and the lives of it's soldiers fighting Arab nations to defend a spinless race that keeps asking for handouts and using emotional blackmail on all nations with the lies about the so-called 'genocide' that Germany did to them during WW2.
I pray for the day Iran's Ahmedinejad makes good on his promise to wipe out 'Israel'."

"along with race mixing and warping the minds of women to favour their 'careers' over their natural duty of motherhood, all of this is done to slowly wipe out the unique characteristics of each and every race, so as to create a world wide, global mongeral race"

You missed this little part? Such nice support you get...

First I'd like to take this time to mention that Fass is hardly a poster you should waste your words on; he's got such a fascination with hating America that he could never possibly form a reasonable opinion about our country or our people. Currently living in big ol' useless Sweden, there should be little doubt in anyone's mind that Fass is no where near qualified enough to speak about our nation's history, at least not accurately. I should hope that the posters currently feuding with him in this thread take that into consideration and eliminate him from the discussion altogether...he's got nothing to add but his skewed, radically left-wing tirades and his unfortunate misinformation about the United States.

With that said, I think it's safe to say that the Black Panthers Organization is a gang of terroists glorified by the left-wing media to help reconcile segregation and slavery. They were murderers; they openly refuted Martin Luther King's pleads for integration, choosing rather to fight white with violence than with reason.

On January 17, 1969, Los Angeles Panther Captain Bunchy Carter and Deputy Minister John Huggins were killed in Campbell Hall on the UCLA campus, in a gun battle with members of United Slaves, a rival black nationalist group, stemming from a dispute over who would control UCLA's black studies program. Another shootout between the two groups on March 17 led to further injuries.

Does that sound like people fighting for equality to you? The Black Panthers were nothing but a bunch of racist thugs who didn't even try to hide their racist agenda. Everybody should be able to see that, but some choose not to. You can't spell it out any better than that.

If you were a policemen, I'm pretty sure you would be upset that taxpayers and government money is being spent on glorifying terrorists, gangsters and their ilk, when so many of your fellow policemen were the victims of Black Panther terrorism.

It's a sad day for the US, when the government has too spend money on giving public display of glory to people who spent their lives using murder and violence to overthrow the government.

I fear where the US is going, the Left is becoming way too strong in America, US government policy is yet again warped by far-left influence.

all this mccarthyism has blinded you, first of all, america isnt turning to the far left, it is one of the most facsist nations around. i dont know where you get off saying its influenced by the far left, you dont even have a decent medicare program, you have no goverment social programs, tax cuts have created an even bigger gap between rich and poor.
public displays of glory? yeah like that time mumia abu jamal was protesting then he got shot by a pig, then they beat him, when he woke up in the hospital he was beaten again, then put on a sham trial for shooting a cop.
without any proof and with his witnesses disappearing he is put on death row
yup that black panther party, almost up there with the fbi's cointelpro

"Don't watch that poor excuse of a 'film' called Munich.
What do you expect, coming from a lying Jew like Speilberg. He is hardly a source to use in this is he?
The best thing America can do is to overturn the Jewish lobby that holds hostage your nation and government and cut your ties with that cesspool called 'Israel'.
Why should America waste it's money and the lives of it's soldiers fighting Arab nations to defend a spinless race that keeps asking for handouts and using emotional blackmail on all nations with the lies about the so-called 'genocide' that Germany did to them during WW2.
I pray for the day Iran's Ahmedinejad makes good on his promise to wipe out 'Israel'."

"along with race mixing and warping the minds of women to favour their 'careers' over their natural duty of motherhood, all of this is done to slowly wipe out the unique characteristics of each and every race, so as to create a world wide, global mongeral race"

You missed this little part? Such nice support you get...

Just because I agree with him on some things (communism, the absurdity of comparing apartheid to segregation) doesn't mean I share all his views. If you've read my posts before, you'd know I have nothing against Jews. Hell, I have Jewish friends myself.

What particular US are you talking about? It can't be the one on Planet Earth.

Unfortunatly, it is the one on planet Earth.

The main area of this process is in the educational system, sadly, the next generation of Americans are brainwashed in schools and universities about the course of history, giving them a warped view of the world.

US 'intellectuals' and the educational system will mininform their students of historic events like the Vietnam War, communist tyranny in Chile (claiming Allende was 'democratic') etc...

Most student's leave their education thinking the US is some sort of brutal police state, one that kills all and destroys everything in it's path.

Nothing could be futher from reality.

First I'd like to take this time to mention that Fass is hardly a poster you should waste your words on; he's got such a fascination with hating America that he could never possibly form a reasonable opinion about our country or our people. Currently living in big ol' useless Sweden, there should be little doubt in anyone's mind that Fass is no where near qualified enough to speak about our nation's history, at least not accurately. I should hope that the posters currently feuding with him in this thread take that into consideration and eliminate him from the discussion altogether...he's got nothing to add but his skewed, radically left-wing tirades and his unfortunate misinformation about the United States.

Wow, you just called me leftist and claimed I hate "America," and that I was a filthy foreigner, too. You do know that that "tactic" only works in the US on other USians? And that it only insults them because they see that as insults?

Just because I agree with him on some things (communism, the absurdity of comparing apartheid to segregation) doesn't mean I share all his views. If you've read my posts before, you'd know I have nothing against Jews. Hell, I have Jewish friends myself.

Lie down with dogs...

Wow, you just called me leftist and claimed I hate America, and that I was a filthy foerigner, too. You do know that that "tactic" only works in the US on other USians? And that it only insults them because they see that as insults?
hahaha awesome man i agree, where you from?
and to add, it unites us against them

all this mccarthyism has blinded you, first of all, america isnt turning to the far left, it is one of the most facsist nations around.

Neeeeeeeeeeeeer. You hear that? It's your credibility diving off a cliff after making an incredibly ignorant statement. Clearly you haven't been around the world. Or to America, for that matter.

i dont know where you get off saying its influenced by the far left, you dont even have a decent medicare program, you have no goverment social programs, tax cuts have created an even bigger gap between rich and poor.

Okay, bad medicare, no social programs (which again is a rather inane statement), and tax cuts. I guess you're right; we're fascist bastards. I fail to see a legit example of America being fascist here. Here, I've got something for you. A bun, some tomatoes, and some lettuce. Now eat your words.

public displays of glory? yeah like that time mumia abu jamal was protesting then he got shot by a pig, then they beat him, when he woke up in the hospital he was beaten again, then put on a sham trial for shooting a cop.
without any proof and with his witnesses disappearing he is put on death row
yup that black panther party, almost up there with the fbi's cointelpro

Should I even waste my time on this? Thanks again for your unbiased opinion.

I'd like to point out that I'm ENGLISH!

I have never even travelled to the USA.

Unfortunatly, it is the one on planet Earth.

The main area of this process is in the educational system, sadly, the next generation of Americans are brainwashed in schools and universities about the course of history, giving them a warped view of the world.

US 'intellectuals' and the educational system will mininform their students of historic events like the Vietnam War, communist tyranny in Chile (claiming Allende was 'democratic') etc...

Most student's leave their education thinking the US is some sort of brutal police state, one that kills all and destroys everything in it's path.

Nothing could be futher from reality.

Most Americans don't even know who Salvador Allende was.

The US intellectual community is astonishingly servile; just reading the US mainstream media makes this obvious. Premises that can't hold up under basic scrutiny are held up as postulates, and imperial arrogance is the rule rather than the exception.

Neeeeeeeeeeeeer. You hear that? It's your credibility diving off a cliff after making an incredibly ignorant statement. Clearly you haven't been around the world. Or to America, for that matter.



Okay, bad medicare, no social programs (which again is a rather inane statement), and tax cuts. I guess you're right; we're fascist bastards. I fail to see a legit example of America being fascist here. Here, I've got something for you. A bun, some tomatoes, and some lettuce. Now eat your words.



Should I even waste my time on this? Thanks again for your unbiased opinion.

and here should i spoon feed you your response of saying nothing at all?

Lie down with dogs...

?

They were murderers; they openly refuted Martin Luther King's pleads for integration, choosing rather to fight white with violence than with reason.

not quite right

"choosing rather to defend against racist violence with force and with reason"

and here should i spoon feed you your response of saying nothing at all?

I basically told you all your statements have no foundation and no supporting facts...you just spewed a bunch of biased garbage with no proof, no links, no support. And by posting the above response, you've basically told me I'm right.

?


The old saying "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas."

?

It's an idiom. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiom) "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas."

The US intellectual community is astonishingly servile; just reading the US mainstream media makes this obvious. Premises that can't hold up under basic scrutiny are held up as postulates, and imperial arrogance is the rule rather than the exception.

shit, it's worse than collapsing under basic scrutiny - they freely contradict themselves from one sentence to the next.

To all those with common sense, shall we even bother with this thread, the communist loonies clearly have the IQ level of a fly.

Shit, I can engage in a more intelligent debate on an issue with my dog than these crackpots.

Communists are a funny breed, they have this habit of denying historical events.

I suppose the truth hurts for them.

I basically told you all your statements have no foundation and no supporting facts...you just spewed a bunch of biased garbage with no proof, no links, no support. And by posting the above response, you've basically told me I'm right.

haha you dont see the difference between what im doing and what your doing
ever thought that i was mocking you? of course not...

haha you dont see the difference between what im doing and what your doing
ever thought that i was mocking you? of course not...

I don't know, maybe if everything you wrote wasn't a run-on sentence, there'd be more clarity between you and I.

Communists are a funny breed, they have this habit of denying historical events.

I suppose the truth hurts for them.

Said the holocaust denier. You really are a bad troll.

It's an idiom. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiom) "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas."

Ah, okay.

Say what you will, though, I do not share his views on homosexuals, Jewish people, etc. (just on communists).

I don't know, maybe if everything you wrote wasn't a run-on sentence, there'd be more clarity between you and I.

Between you and me. Prepositions take objects. If you're going to bitch about someone's language, don't hypercorrect (http://www.answers.com/topic/hypercorrect) yours.

I don't know, maybe if everything you wrote wasn't a run-on sentence, there'd be more clarity between you and I.

ohh so because every once in a while i dont put a period and a capital letter following it you cant understand what im saying, no wonder your pro USA, you dont even have simple power of deduction

Between you and me. Prepositions take objects. If you're going to bitch about someone's language, don't hypercorrect (http://www.answers.com/topic/hypercorrect) yours.

He doesn't have to be perfect. Just understandable.

ohh so because every once in a while i dont put a period and a capital letter following it you cant understand what im saying, no wonder your pro USA, you dont even have simple power of deduction

As of 11:55 PM, I've deduced that I'm probably speaking with a prepubescent child, and have thus decided to cease all communication with you. Congratulations, you've stated a bunch of bullshit and never bothered to follow it up with any sort of reasoning whatsoever. Is there anything else you'd like to get off your chest? You've proven your lack of knowledge in American politics quite thoroughly, but if you've more to say, by all means, prattle on.

Congratulations, you've stated a bunch of bullshit and never bothered to follow it up with any sort of reasoning whatsoever.

You never did, either, apart from contradicting him and thinking that enough. Then you criticised his language when you found nothing better to do, making mistakes in your own at the same time. Me, well, you just called a filthy foreigner and leftist and "America hater." So, who is acting prepubescent here, really?

As of 11:55 PM, I've deduced that I'm probably speaking with a prepubescent child, and have thus decided to cease all communication with you. Congratulations, you've stated a bunch of bullshit and never bothered to follow it up with any sort of reasoning whatsoever. Is there anything else you'd like to get off your chest? You've proven your lack of knowledge in American politics quite thoroughly, but if you've more to say, by all means, prattle on.

your vice president is pro guns but cant shoot for his life (or his friends for that matter)

What are your views on the Black Panthers, I just read an article stating that Chicago may name a street after a slayed black panther. Do you think its right to honor these people, or do you beleive they are just another black militant cop killing hate group. Aka, the Black KKK.

Black Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panthers)

The article I was just talking about

Da Article (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/NATION/603050388/1020/rss09)

So, as this group was a notorious cop killer, the Chicago police station is obviously against this movement. The question is, how do you see them?

Was the police slaughtering and violence justifiable?

they were no different then the kkk or a radical islamist movement....they killed people for their skin color/race/religion with no thought as to their lives as a human...and with callous disregard to those they left behind..kill a killer...yea,kill a person cause they are white/black etc...fuck that:sniper:

your vice president is pro guns but cant shoot for his life (or his friends for that matter)

Good God, with each post you show us you can make an even more stupid post than the last post.

V.P. Cheney has shitty shooting skills.

The President of Algeria has an awful combover, what's your point.

Show some bloody evidence for your "USA is Fascist" claim.

And no, Cheney's shooting skills (or lack of them) is something that has no correlation to your twisted view on the USA.

They were ineffective. The peaceful demonstrators brought about change, not them.
Only a fool would be unable to tell that by being violent, they would be playing right into segregationist hands.

Good God, with each post you show us you can make an even more stupid post than the last post.

Oh, the irony.

No other 'ethnic' groups were kidnapped and forced to be slaves for a couple centuries, and then even after supposedly 'freed' from slavery, still treated as far less than human for another century. Are you really so unimaginative as to not be able to concieve of how that might build animosity?

you left out the fact that they originated slavery,sold their own into it and profited greatly from the slave trade..but i guess it is as usual..ad hominem..white americas fault...really getting old.:headbang:

you left out the fact that they originated slavery,sold their own into it and profited greatly from the slave trade..but i guess it is as usual..ad hominem..white americas fault...really getting old.:headbang:

Yes, it's the slaves' fault their masters bought them and freighted them and abused them. The masters were the victims!

Good God, with each post you show us you can make an even more stupid post than the last post.

V.P. Cheney has shitty shooting skills.

The President of Algeria has an awful combover, what's your point.

Show some bloody evidence for your "USA is Fascist" claim.

And no, Cheney's shooting skills (or lack of them) is something that has no correlation to your twisted view on the USA.
dont blame me, the guy who said he was leaving challenged me to say someting stupid, and so i did
it was sarcasm
dont think im actually that low

you left out the fact that they originated slavery,sold their own into it and profited greatly from the slave trade..but i guess it is as usual..ad hominem..white americas fault...really getting old.:headbang:

those doing the selling in africa wound up as slaves in the americas? that's a shitty deal.

or were you thinking there is some sort of 'racial responsibility' for actions, powerful enough to cross oceans and historical circumstances?

they were no different then the kkk or a radical islamist movement....they killed people for their skin color/race/religion with no thought as to their lives as a human...and with callous disregard to those they left behind..kill a killer...yea,kill a person cause they are white/black etc...fuck that:sniper:

Well, they are not really the same. I mean, the KKK has one of our most prestigous leftist senators (Grand Kleagle Byrd (D)) and Radical Islam has an Iranian President. All the Black Panthers had was Hillary Clinton to defend them. Granted she was (is) a budding Leninist but she was never a Black Panther member. (Unless of course you include her involvement with the "New Haven Nine".)

Oh, the irony.

Says the man who has NOT provided ANY evidence of the US being an "aparthied" state, that the US government of President Bush is somehow racist (remember Colin Powell and Dr. Rice???) and ignore's the fact that the Black Panther killed innocent people.

But I suppose decent, hard working policemen are just 'pigs' in your eyes, oppressing those 'poor' terrorists, most of whom cannot accept that they are now free, so instead of wanting their community to intergrate and work, just want them to be detached from US society, killing policemen whilst they pick up their welfare checks from the government they claim to hate.

The Black Panthers are gangsters, no different from LA gangs or those terrorists and gangsters in the LA terrorist revolt.

They stole from banks and used violence to get rich and control 'their streets'. How are they different from the criminal gangs of today?

But of course, in typical communist fashion, you just ignore all of this.

decent, hard working policemen

a rare animal indeed

But of course, in typical communist fashion, you just ignore all of this.

Yes, I will ignore you from now on. You are such a bad troll. Really. You've no sense for subtlety, and what you spout is so obviously ridiculous that its uncleverness is magnified. So, shoo, poor troll, better ones have come before you, and easily will after you.

a rare animal indeed

Yeah, they're corrupt, racist killers until your life is danger.

a rare animal indeed

Hush now. We must fellate our fascist overlords.

a rare animal indeed

You don't know of any policemen then, if thats all you can come up with.

Funny though, if you do want to see REAL police brutality and corruption in a REAL police state, take a plane to Cuba.

But I get the feeling that you would think that those communist tourist 'guides' in Cuba, are just there to make your holiday a pleasurable experience, rather than conceal the truth about their cesspool nation and system.

Says the man who has NOT provided ANY evidence of the US being an "aparthied" state, that the US government of President Bush is somehow racist (remember Colin Powell and Dr. Rice???) and ignore's the fact that the Black Panther killed innocent people.

But I suppose decent, hard working policemen are just 'pigs' in your eyes, oppressing those 'poor' terrorists, most of whom cannot accept that they are now free, so instead of wanting their community to intergrate and work, just want them to be detached from US society, killing policemen whilst they pick up their welfare checks from the government they claim to hate.

The Black Panthers are gangsters, no different from LA gangs or those terrorists and gangsters in the LA terrorist revolt.

They stole from banks and used violence to get rich and control 'their streets'. How are they different from the criminal gangs of today?

But of course, in typical communist fashion, you just ignore all of this.


i dont think you know what communism is, every time you say something you blame it on communism. what does a bloody revolution by the proletariat to overcome the bourgeoisie have to do with anything you are saying?
colin powell was in office before bush, and as for rice, im sure there is a reson for her as well and its not because bush hand picked her either
and by the way, it takes a hell of a lot of people to run a country, (even if its done very poorly) and you can only name 2 black people, im disgusted

i dont think you know what communism is, every time you say something you blame it on communism. what does a bloody revolution by the proletariat to overcome the bourgeoisie have to do with anything you are saying?
colin powell was in office before bush, and as for rice, im sure there is a reson for her as well and its not because bush hand picked her either
and by the way, it takes a hell of a lot of people to run a country, (even if its done very poorly) and you can only name 2 black people, im disgusted

Funny you should say that, because I'm of the opinion you don't know what fascism is.

Yes, I will ignore you from now on. You are such a bad troll. Really. You've no sense for subtlety, and what you spout is so obviously ridiculous that its uncleverness is magnified. So, shoo, poor troll, better ones have come before you, and easily will after you

How am I Trolling (FYI, what is Trolling?)?

Granted I hate communism, but do just expect me to keep my views on that vile ideology quiet?

I see communism for what it is, an inhumane and barbaric ideology with it's hands soaked in blood.

Sorry if I destroyed you little fantasy that communism is this humane force of good that seeks to liberate the world.

Even if you stick to calling me a Troll, You have NOT given ANY evidence or substance to ANY of the posters who disagree with your warped view of the Black Panthers.

Even if others to show cases and evidence of Balck Pather criminality.

You don't know of any policemen then, if thats all you can come up with.

Funny though, if you do want to see REAL police brutality and corruption in a REAL police state, take a plane to Cuba.

But I get the feeling that you would think that those communist tourist 'guides' in Cuba, are just there to make your holiday a pleasurable experience, rather than conceal the truth about their cesspool nation and system.


hey how about you talk about the pig in charge before castro?
dont you think there is a reason you cant go to cuba to check it out yourself?
1. because its not that bad and your govt's first job is system sustainnig (ex: more money is spent on cops during bank robberies then what would be stolen by robbers)
2. they dont want you sneaking into guantanamo bay and seeing your country's dirty little secrets

Funny you should say that, because I'm of the opinion you don't know what fascism is.

i thought you left, be gone now

You don't know of any policemen then, if thats all you can come up with.

implying that if i did know some, i'd say even worse about them?

Yes, it's the slaves' fault their masters bought them and freighted them and abused them. The masters were the victims!

thanks for putting words in my mouth,i was kinda on the sidelines on this..but you successfully pushed me to the other side with your condescension.

the point i was making was the blacks sold their own into slavery...and had slaves themselves..which you somehow gloss over(could it be it doesnt fit with your hate white america agenda?)

i have never nor did i here..condone slavery..of ANYONE...i merely pointed out that blacks sold blacks to the us and ran the slave trade,had slaves themselves,so to bitch about slavery is sorta the pot calling the kettle black.

but i guess if you can use the emotional angle to further your agenda...true or not..then by all means...put words in my mouth...

you officially are put in the category of, knee jerk hate americans no matter what,and as well as,why bother debating because you only know "your truth" and facts be damned

good luck with your blinders.

the point i was making was the blacks sold their own into slavery...and had slaves themselves..which you somehow gloss over(could it be it doesnt fit with your hate white america agenda?)

and that has what to do with anything, exactly?

"white america may have done terrible things continuously to the black community for hundreds of years, right up to the present day, but some other africans were in on it way back at the beginning, so it's not really our fault..."

and that has what to do with anything, exactly?

"white america may have done terrible things continuously to the black community for hundreds of years, right up to the present day, but some other africans were in on it way back at the beginning, so it's not really our fault..."

never said that either..but since you bring it up...yes it does go a bit in not putting all the blame on us.

it's like the sting operations with drugs....or prostitution,some guy is walking down the street and an undercover cop solicits them...wtf is that....same thing kinda,you get a black man 200 years ago,saying he can get you people to work for food for x dollars...you being greedy buy them...wrong..absolutely,but any worse then the guy that sells them to you..?
thats the point i am making,no one has clean hands in this matter(except the slaves)but to make it a white/black thing is overlooking the fact that their own were part and parcel to the trade.

The Black Panthers are as bad as the KKK. Honoring them is beyond sickening.

They were ineffective. The peaceful demonstrators brought about change, not them.

The peaceful demonstrators brought about most of the changes they did before the Black Panthers. The Black Panthers were quite right to point out that the change was in many ways merely nominal, and the same is true, with some exceptions, to this day.

the point i was making was the blacks sold their own into slavery...and had slaves themselves..

This is archetypical bigotry. "They," an amorphous mass with collective thought and collective responsibility because they share the same skin color, are to blame for the oppression of "their own."

Why does the skin color of those who captured them and sold them to the white slave traders matter? Why are you bringing it up?

Granted she was (is) a budding Leninist but she was never a Black Panther member.

Hillary Clinton, a Leninist?

Give me a break.

While the Black panthers had some good notes in their ideology for the most part how they behaved was almost as bad as the behaviour of those they were against, this is quite like the difference between the suffragettes compared to the rest of the suffragist movement though obviously to a greater scale. In both groups while the behaviour of the group had adverse effects on the image of the movement it did bring said movement to the forefront of the collective conciousness.

The Black Panthers were brought about by an unjust society at the time.

Whoever made the comment about the Black Panther being as bad as the KKK knows about as much as the subject as a seventh grader living in Biloxi. The Black Panther never ran whites out of town, they never lynched whites, and they never burned crosses on lawns. The KKK is the result of ignorant, bigoted, and scared white men. The Black Panther were the result of this opening post.

Did some take it too extreme? Which group doesn't have members that do that?

Hillary Clinton, a Leninist?

Give me a break.

Give you a break? How about some facts. Hillary Clinton was recruited at Yale by Tommie Emerson (Tommie the Commie) to aid in the defense of the New Haven Nine under the supervision of Black Panther lawyer Charles Garry. (Minton, The First Partner: Hillary Rodham Clinton P. 34, Olsen, Hell to Pay P 55)

Her work for the Black Panthers won her an internship with noted CPUSA attorney Robert Treuhaft where in her latest book she made the mistake of disclosing that she did work in his lawfirm however she worked for another attorney in the office doing "child support cases". Had Hillary kept her mouth shut about the entire affair no one would have noticed, however her attempt to deflect her involvement lead to further investigation and public records from the time indicate that she was indeed working directly for Mr Treuhaft, who's entire legal carreer was dedicated to advancing the CPUSA, the Soviet Communist Party and the KGB as noted by David Brock, The Seduction of Hillary Rodham in 1996.
Now, armed with the information above without even having to read the books concerning her checked past, or her versions attempting to gloss it over. Any reasonable person has got to think back on her co-presidency and wonder exactly what was going on with the woman when she and her husband so egarly accepted money from the chineese military right before they so gleefully sold them classified technology enabling them to launch missles that would reach US shores.
If that is not enough, how about her trip before the grand jury to explain her illegal meetings and attempt to nationalize health care?
...not enough for you I'm sure. How about kicking in the door of private citizens in order to kidnap (at gunpoint) a little kid for her hero Fidel?
If this still is not enough for you, maybe do a bit of leg work and go find some of her work when she was an editor for the "Yale Review of Law and Social Action" which was laced with, oh my gosh, advocating cop killing!
When you get done with all that, maybe you can find out where she got the money for her latest bid for attention in winning the Senate position she now holds. Strangely enough, less than 2% of it came from New Yorkers. Hmmmm!

Give you a break? How about some facts. Hillary Clinton was recruited at Yale by Tommie Emerson (Tommie the Commie) to aid in the defense of the New Haven Nine under the supervision of Black Panther lawyer Charles Garry. (Minton, The First Partner: Hillary Rodham Clinton P. 34, Olsen, Hell to Pay P 55)

Her work for the Black Panthers won her an internship with noted CPUSA attorney Robert Treuhaft where in her latest book she made the mistake of disclosing that she did work in his lawfirm however she worked for another attorney in the office doing "child support cases". Had Hillary kept her mouth shut about the entire affair no one would have noticed, however her attempt to deflect her involvement lead to further investigation and public records from the time indicate that she was indeed working directly for Mr Treuhaft, who's entire legal carreer was dedicated to advancing the CPUSA, the Soviet Communist Party and the KGB as noted by David Brock, The Seduction of Hillary Rodham in 1996.
Now, armed with the information above without even having to read the books concerning her checked past, or her versions attempting to gloss it over. Any reasonable person has got to think back on her co-presidency and wonder exactly what was going on with the woman when she and her husband so egarly accepted money from the chineese military right before they so gleefully sold them classified technology enabling them to launch missles that would reach US shores.
If that is not enough, how about her trip before the grand jury to explain her illegal meetings and attempt to nationalize health care?
...not enough for you I'm sure. How about kicking in the door of private citizens in order to kidnap (at gunpoint) a little kid for her hero Fidel?
If this still is not enough for you, maybe do a bit of leg work and go find some of her work when she was an editor for the "Yale Review of Law and Social Action" which was laced with, oh my gosh, advocating cop killing!
When you get done with all that, maybe you can find out where she got the money for her latest bid for attention in winning the Senate position she now holds. Strangely enough, less than 2% of it came from New Yorkers. Hmmmm!


*giggle*

Your silly. I like that. Have you got anymore fairy stories for us?

never said that either..but since you bring it up...yes it does go a bit in not putting all the blame on us.

it's like the sting operations with drugs....or prostitution,some guy is walking down the street and an undercover cop solicits them...wtf is that....same thing kinda,you get a black man 200 years ago,saying he can get you people to work for food for x dollars...you being greedy buy them...wrong..absolutely,but any worse then the guy that sells them to you..?
thats the point i am making,no one has clean hands in this matter(except the slaves)but to make it a white/black thing is overlooking the fact that their own were part and parcel to the trade.

Slavery in the US was a white/black thing. Or weren't you aware of the Dredd Scott decision?

I'm not really sure about the Black Panthers, there's a lot that I'd disagree with them on but the FBI's behaviour and treatment of them as terrible..

What are your views on the Black Panthers, I just read an article stating that Chicago may name a street after a slayed black panther. Do you think its right to honor these people, or do you beleive they are just another black militant cop killing hate group. Aka, the Black KKK.

Black Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panthers)

The article I was just talking about

Da Article (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/NATION/603050388/1020/rss09)

So, as this group was a notorious cop killer, the Chicago police station is obviously against this movement. The question is, how do you see them?

Was the police slaughtering and violence justifiable?

No. The murder of a uniformed civic officer is (almost) never justified, and Black Power is racism just as much as White Power. This incident doesn't match my own personal moral standards, and these people are so far away from real heroes it's almost impossible to imagine worse human beings to honour.

It's my firm belief, and I know that proving it would require more effort to spend, that the ultimate future of the African-American is Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice. Black Panthers were a reaction that was doomed to failure, and set the cause of the African-American back probably 20 years.

Second, they do want unique treatment, its called affirmitive action and welfare.

Welfare isn't just for the black population. There are plenty of white single parents, white workers whose manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to Mexico, India and China, and others who are unable to support themselves because of disabilities or because of insufficent education or lack of skills. And it takes money to get that college education in the first place.

I dont care what the hell their motives were, they fought against police and the man, instead of going out to get a job and assimilating like every other ethnic group did before them.

I suspect it wasn't, and still isn't, quite so easy as that. Maybe black Americans were upset because they faced racial discrimination and couldn't get decent jobs in the first place. Suppose they succeeded, and found that they were only being paid a fraction of what their white counterparts were making? (Historically that has been the case, and the wage inequity continues even today.) Now imagine that their economic disadvantages led to their children having to drop out of school to help support the family, or that their children couldn't concentrate in class because they were hungry, or that they were unable to attend college due to a lack of funds. (And of course they were denied on their loan applications because they were black.) Now imagine that those children were doomed to live in the same depressed neighborhoods, only to raise a new generation of angry, hungry, uneducated blacks. Oppression of black people affected every aspect of their lives, creating a vicious cycle, and affirmative action was designed to help offset some of those disadvantages. Because even today, black folks are getting paid less, black babies are more likely to die, and black citizens of all ages are getting inferior healthcare, education, and you name it.

The Panthers had/have every right to be angry about their situation, and they didn't exactly fight the police--they fought BACK at the police, for all the beatings of innocents and for the less-than-humane treatment of blacks.

To all those with common sense, shall we even bother with this thread, the communist loonies clearly have the IQ level of a fly.

Shit, I can engage in a more intelligent debate on an issue with my dog than these crackpots.

Communists are a funny breed, they have this habit of denying historical events.

I suppose the truth hurts for them.

Denying historical events? Aren't you the chappy who denies and distorts the holocaust and says it didn't happen, or that it was all Soviet propaganda or somesuch rot?

Black Power is racism just as much as White Power.

No more than feminism is equivalent to male chauvinism, gay pride is equivalent to homophobia, or self-defense is equivalent to aggression.

Liverbreath: I do not care about your conspiracy theories. Are you at all familiar with the tenets of Leninism?

Hillary Clinton is not a revolutionary Marxist; she isn't even a socialist, or even reasonably close.

No more than feminism is equivalent to male chauvinism, gay pride is equivalent to homophobia, or self-defense is equivalent to aggression.

If we're considering feminists like Maureen Dowd and Germaine Gree, I'd agree with the first statement. If we're considering Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, I'd agree with the second. And if we're talking about how Bush invaded Iraq pre-emptively in 'defence' of the USA, I'd agree with the third statement.

Similarly, when the movement for Black Equality turns to violence and the murder of civic officials, I'm perfectly happy to call it for what it is, Racism. These are people who should be burned in effigy, not idolized. And so long as African-Americans idolize perpetrators of violence, like Tookie or Gangsta culture or the Black Panthers, they're not going to get ahead in society.

It's my firm and well-cherished belief that America's motto, and by extention that of the entire West, should be 'assimilate now'. But that wouldn't be politically correct, would it? :rolleyes:

If we're considering feminists like Maureen Dowd and Germaine Gree, I'd agree with the first statement. If we're considering Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, I'd agree with the second. And if we're talking about how Bush invaded Iraq pre-emptively in 'defence' of the USA, I'd agree with the third statement.

Similarly, when the movement for Black Equality turns to violence and the murder of civic officials, I'm perfectly happy to call it for what it is, Racism. These are people who should be burned in effigy, not idolized. And so long as African-Americans idolize perpetrators of violence, like Tookie or Gangsta culture or the Black Panthers, they're not going to get ahead in society.

It's my firm and well-cherished belief that America's motto, and by extention that of the entire West, should be 'assimilate now'. But that wouldn't be politically correct, would it? :rolleyes:

No, liberals wouldnt think it would be politically correct, but as a conservative American, I would love you for saying it just the same.

It's my firm and well-cherished belief that America's motto, and by extention that of the entire West, should be 'assimilate now'. But that wouldn't be politically correct, would it? :rolleyes:

Conformity is destructive, oppressive, and corrosive. It serves no useful purpose, but it stifles independent thought and expression, destroying freedom and crushing individualism.

All that aside, the re-framing of this issue as some sort of choice between multiculturalism and assimilation misses the point. The Black Panthers realized that their oppressors were not suddenly going to welcome them as equals just because the law said they should. Freedom is won is through struggle, it is not granted by rulers moved by whims of benevolence. That was the argument they advanced - that blacks should liberate themselves and not rely on the ruling class to do it for them by seeking nominal "equality." They have been proven right.