NationStates Jolt Archive

In the US, speaking from personal experience - yes, I believe it is.

I believe, and I know some of you will perhaps violently disagree with me, that psychologists and psychiatrists are not perfect. I don't believe the DSM-IV is a 100% accurate model of the mind and it's disorders, nor that psychological diagnoses are 100% accurate. Furthermore, I believe that the placebo effect, and psychosomatic responses in general, play a much larger part in our society than is otherwise accredited.

It's a common belief, for example, that sugar and sugar-containing foods "makes" people and/or children act "hyper." I disagree. I think the BELIEF ITSELF is providing an excuse for it through the power of a placebo effect.

Ironically, the placebo effect was originally tested by giving sugar pills instead of the real medication. To test my pet theory here, I'd have to give children what is ostensibly a sugary substance but in fact, contains little or no sugar content. I'd tell them that it's reallllly full of sugar and that you can only have one, else you'd go bonkers and run around the house like a crazy kid.

I haven't performed my experiment yet, but what do you think? Do you think that kids would be just as "hyper" in response to my non-sugary pill as they would be in response to a whole lot of sugar? I think so. That's my untested hypothesis.

Hence with sugar, I believe that parents, and the media, and children's peers, perpetuate a belief which itself causes 'hyperactivity.' Hence why, when I was growing up, I could eat sugary crap yet behave myself, and why today, a kid can't eat a bowl of ice cream without mysteriously becoming 'hyper' and running around.

Where is this going, you ask? Well, ADHD. All these 'hyper' kids (cuz of the sugar, wink wink) are having difficulties in school and being difficult for parents (who have increasingly long work-weeks and decreasing time for their children) and eventually, are sent to a school counselor, a psychiatrist or somesuch. The end result? Diagnosed with ADD or ADHD?

Why not? And of course, the diagnosis itself reinforces the behavior - legitamizes it. It's a positive reinforcement because having a 'disorder' in this country is rarely punished - you often get more lenience in school, you are seen as in a way special or cool by your peers, you are seen as needing special care. And psychologically, the brain loves having a seemingly external (as in, beyond one's control) reason for one's behavior - it lifts the burden of responsibility from one's stress load.

Hence, I believe that the reasons for an increased rate (http://pibhs.uams.edu/ADHD/ADHD_rates.asp) of ADHD diagnoses is not because of an increased rates of the possible genetic/physiological factors involved in the disorder, but because of the social and psychological factors involved in both the symptoms and the diagnosis itself.

Commence flaming about how I'm insensitive to the needs of our nation's attention- and hyperactivity- afflicted victims now.

EDIT: Here's how the DSM-IV-RT defines the symptoms and outlines the criteria for diagnosing ADHD:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/symptom.htm

Note the amounts of judgement calls: "often" does this or that, "present for at least 6 months" (but does this mean, once in the January check-up and once again in the July check-up?). Note also that although brain differences are cited, brain scans or any other neurology seems to be necessary to make the diagnosis.

*smokes ritalin*

ADHD is misdiagnosed but...HEY A PLASTIC BAG!

Actually ADD is more misdiagnosed than ADHD.

Probably most of us at least know one person with ADD or ADHD, and probably most of the times you know it's not quite well diagnosed. It would appear that American Consumists love to solution any kinds of problem with something that includes buying - Like, Ritalin in this case - rather than facing the real trouble IF there is such.

I'd say that ADD and ADHD excessive diagnosis are a symptom (Spelling? This isn't my mother tongue) of the f'ked society we inhabit - And ultimately form.

i believe there is some misdiagnosing going on...but I would like to know youre qualifications and degrees which give you the experience and knowledge to make these self serving statements. Neurologists are called in as well to make the diagnosis of add or adhd. Tests are performed on these children to see if they have it. Its not just oh he has ants in his pants...hes add. Until you have a medical degree and have done research into this area why not keep your big mouthed opinion to yourself.

Actually ADD is more misdiagnosed than ADHD.

I was actually gonna make this about ADD/ADHD. The sugar thing relates to hyperactivity and therefore the latter, but I'm sure I can think of things that also serve as artificial factors for the creation of attention-deficit style behavior. Like for example, studies that show that the attention span overall in our society is decreasing, possibly due to TV and the internet and the increasing work week. Would that mean attention deficit disorder is actually on the rise, or just that our behavior is itself becoming de-focused as it were and we're labeling this a disorder?

Because personally, I've seen that psychiatrists are often apt to label behavior as a symptom. If you're sad, you're depressed, if you're happy, you're manic, if you have sex, you hate your father and have a pathological desire to claim your mother...

I'm not implying there's a conspiracy, btw. Just that medical people sometimes tend to see everything as a disease... probably comes with the job. But society itself is accepting this tenency as well. For example, I don't smoke cigarettes - I'm an addict.

Even if it is a legitimate disorder, is it just me or are we a as a country popping way too many pills like Ritalin for our problems?

Even if it is a legitimate disorder, is it just me or are we a as a country popping way too many pills like Ritalin for our problems?

I personally believe it is a legitimate disorder.

As for the prescriptions... well that's indicative of our whole problem as a society. We can't do anything unless there's a drug involved. Can't wake up without caffeine in teh coffee, can't have fun without drinking alcohol, can't even quit smoking without nicotine patches. At some point someone ripped out the human will wholesale and replaced it with chemical dependency.

Well a child is constantly moving around in class, and being disruptive and will not obey the rules or cannot and all avenues are exhausted then medical intervention may e necessary. why should everyone else suffer because of one?

The whole ADD/ADHD thing makes me sick. Your kid is misbehaving?! Who'd have ever thought it? Surely there's gotta be something wrong with his mind. It's couldn't possibly be the fact that he's just a misbehaving little shit, could it?

It could. Kids get into trouble. Kids don't pay attention. That's kind of what being a kid is all about. Fucking up alot and learning from your mistakes as you grow.

I've known alot of people who were genuinely geekers, who couldn't sit still or concentrate, even if they truly tried. And then, I've met a whole mob of kids who were just undisciplined little shitheads. Forcing rydalin and other drugs down these kids isn't the answer.

When I started school in maybe 88 or 89, I remember getting my ass busted for being a shit. Fond memories, those, and I had alot of thrashings. Was I a bad kid? No. Was I ADD? No. I was simply a kid. After a good thrashing, I was sure to behave myself after that. Through the years, I guess society changed, and by the time I quit school in February of '00 it was considered a fucking national emergency if a kid screwed up and got thrashed for it. Parents mobbing the schools in protest because their angels got punished for breaking the rules.

People don't hit their children enough. It sounds fucked, but I think it's truth. I say it half-jokingly, as well, but the argument remains. I don't think kids should get pounded on or even spanked if you can keep from it, but goddamnit, instead of blaming some half-assed disorder, we need to put the blame where it belongs: Ineffective parenting and teaching.

That's my take on the whole thing. There -are- genuinely troubled kids, but then there are also alot of kids who are just mischievous and these kids don't need to be drugged. They need their asses busted or their Xbox's thrown out the window.

It is certainly not misdiagnosed in the way that you are thinking. ADD and ADHD are two very real diseases. They are not connected with sugar intake, or food additives. They are neurological disorders. Hence why amphetamines like ritalin have the opposite effect on children with ADHD than on the rest of the population.

Yes sometimes the disease can be overdiagnosed, though this is often due to "doctor shopping" by unscrupulous parents (I live in the ADHD capital of Australia, believe me, parents do this.).

*snip*

Now your point without all the cussing in it or do you have a point?

Do you believe in ADD or ADHD?

It is certainly not misdiagnosed in the way that you are thinking. ADD and ADHD are two very real diseases. They are not connected with sugar intake, or food additives. They are neurological disorders. [b]Hence why amphetamines like ritalin have the opposite effect on children with ADHD than on the rest of the population.

That's a gross understatement.

*remembers what he was like while on retilin and shudders at the memory*

Yes sometimes the disease can be overdiagnosed, though this is often due to "doctor shopping" by unscrupulous parents (I live in the ADHD capital of Australia, believe me, parents do this.).

This I can agree with to a point.

It is certainly not misdiagnosed in the way that you are thinking. ADD and ADHD are two very real diseases. They are not connected with sugar intake, or food additives. They are neurological disorders. Hence why amphetamines like ritalin have the opposite effect on children with ADHD than on the rest of the population.

I didn't say they weren't "real." But if they're purely neurological, what's your explanation for the rising rates of ADD/ADHD in the population? Increased head trauma? Mysteriously bad genetics?

And who says amphetamines have the opposite effect on children with ADHD? How would we know, given that ritalin isn't a "cure" it's a "treatment" and plenty of kids on ritalin are just as hyperactive as they are otherwise?

And who says amphetamines have the opposite effect on children with ADHD? How would we know, given that ritalin isn't a "cure" it's a "treatment" and plenty of kids on ritalin are just as hyperactive as they are otherwise?

Here's something for you to chew on.

When I was on Ritalin, I was worse on it than I was off of it. It is why I'm no longer on Ritalin. Believe me, it has the opposite affect of those with ADHD because an Amphetamines is a stimulent I believe. Care to tell me what a stimulent does to a person who is already revved up?

Do you believe in ADD or ADHD?

Sure I do. Of course there are kids with real problems, what I was getting at is that the kids with real afflictions are doubtlessly a fraction of those that are diagnosed with the disease. Forcing drugs down a child isn't the answer, here. That's just going to create a larger, more dangerous problem, in my opinion.

Once again: Kids aren't the most attentive beings on earth, but why step forward and do some parenting when it's so much easier to force-feed them a fistful of pills every day and turn themn loose?

Not a curse word in it. :) Sorry about being so overly vulgar on my previous post. I'm just stoked about the boxing tonight. CALZAGHE!

I believe it's misdiagnosed a lot, I have heard from a doctor that I know that the only true way to diagnose it is a CAT scan since it actually causes changes in the brain. I think that a lot of kids that are diagnosed may have something else wrong with them, but they get diagnosed with ADD/ADHD because doctors are lazy, or they think that's what the parents want to hear.

I can't claim that my opinion is backed up by anything but personal experience though.

As someone who has ADD, I can speak from my own (albeit limited, as I'm only 19 years old) experience.

ADD is a real disorder. It isn't something that is simply an example of the placebo effect. Heck, they've scanned brains of ADD and "normal" people, and there are clear differences in neural activity in certain areas.

Really, ADD is just a lost ability to focus on one thing at a time--your brain doesn't make enough of such-and-such a chemical. Ritalin is a stimulant that, well, stimulates the part of your brain that produces that chemical.

I can't say I know much about ADHD specifically, but given the above, I'd say it's safe to say that the whole sugar thing is more likely than not a load of crap. Eating a bunch of sugar, or other sources of "quick energy," is going to make anyone more active and alert, because your body suddenly has all of that fuel to burn; considering that, it's no mystery that someone with AD(H)D may seem to act more "hyper" than someone without.




As for over-diagnosis, I'll put it like this: just because the Internet is full of bizarre fetish groups doesn't mean that said fetishes didn't exist before the Internet was created.

Here's something for you to chew on.

When I was on Ritalin, I was worse on it than I was off of it. It is why I'm no longer on Ritalin. Believe me, it has the opposite affect of those with ADHD because an Amphetamines is a stimulent I believe. Care to tell me what a stimulent does to a person who is already revved up?
I don't have any more than you do to argue with here, namely, anecdotal evidence, but I had thought there was a bit of a problem with people getting Ritalin illegaly and using it to help them focus?

And I can't imagine that, as you seem to suggest, the entire medical community is dead wrong about ADD treatment. Sure, it's reasonable to claim it's misdiagnosed, but you knowing better than medical studies so far is a bit unlikely, wouldn't you think?

I don't have any more than you do to argue with here, namely, anecdotal evidence, but I had thought there was a bit of a problem with people getting Ritalin illegaly and using it to help them focus?

The Ritalin blackmarket was already in full swing prior to all of this. I do know about ADHD and the affects Ritalin has on one who has it because I LIVED IT!!!!!

And I can't imagine that, as you seem to suggest, the entire medical community is dead wrong about ADD treatment.

Did I say ADD? No, I said Ritalin for ADHD (a different disorder) is a bad idea.

Sure, it's reasonable to claim it's misdiagnosed, but you knowing better than medical studies so far is a bit unlikely, wouldn't you think?

I think you need to differentiate between ADHD and ADD.

ADD is a real disorder. It isn't something that is simply an example of the placebo effect. Heck, they've scanned brains of ADD and "normal" people, and there are clear differences in neural activity in certain areas.

Again, I haven't said it was a "fake" disorder. However, are those brain scans given to each and every one who is diagnosed with it?

Really, ADD is just a lost ability to focus on one thing at a time--your brain doesn't make enough of such-and-such a chemical. Ritalin is a stimulant that, well, stimulates the part of your brain that produces that chemical.

A stimulant, yes. Methamphetamine hydrochloride. As to whether it helps the brain produce things I don't know... I do know the effects of extensive and long-term meth use though, and it doesn't seem to be good.

I can't say I know much about ADHD specifically, but given the above, I'd say it's safe to say that the whole sugar thing is more likely than not a load of crap. Eating a bunch of sugar, or other sources of "quick energy," is going to make anyone more active and alert, because your body suddenly has all of that fuel to burn; considering that, it's no mystery that someone with AD(H)D may seem to act more "hyper" than someone without.

Ah, but it's not just a matter of being more active and alert. It's a question of whether a child is "capable" of focusing/concentrating etc etc. I've literally seen a kid eat some candy or whatever and then run around very knowingly getting in trouble - not just being more active or alert (really, the activity/alertness level observed was the same, it was the behavior that changed) - and when told to stop, said, "I can't I just had lots of sugar."

I for one don't believe sugar is some psychoactive that prevents children from functioning normally. But it's treated that way - by the children. And I know by the parents.

I'm not saying sugar is the cause of ADHD - I actually just used it as an example of how suggestion can 'cause' behavior in a self-fulfilling prophetic type way. If you believe sugar "makes" you half-destroy the house, what are the chances of you half-destroying the house after some sugar ingestion? Similarly, if you believe that having ADHD makes you hyperactive, what are the chances that you'll show the symptoms of ADHD? For that matter, if you believe you're depressed, will you act sad?

The thing is with psychological disorders is yes, they have chemical changes, but yes, they are ALSO effected by decidedly non-chemical factors - the placebo effect, in other words. This is why a positive outlook is often helpful in cancer treatment, and a negative one is counterproductive. The mind has a power over the body, and for that reason, ideas do too - and declarations from a Medical Health Professional.

I remember reading a case study where normal people (psych students actually) entered themselves into a mental health hospital, claiming one or two symptoms. AFTER that, they acted completely normal - they didn't act out the symptoms they claimed to have, they just acted as they normally did. The facility was unable to tell the difference between them and anyone else. Every normal behavior they did was labeled as some sort of symptom or sign.

All of which indicates that maybe the medical health profession isn't exactly infallible when it comes to determining whether someone does NOT have some sort of disorder... in other words they could not identify "normal" and saw the normal people as having some sort of disorder.

Damn, I rant long. Sorry for that.

The Ritalin blackmarket was already in full swing prior to all of this. I do know about ADHD and the affects Ritalin has on one who has it because I LIVED IT!!!!!
You did not address my point, namely, that Ritalin apparently helps at least some people concentrrate, if we're going to argue using anecdotal evidence.
Did I say ADD? No, I said Ritalin for ADHD (a different disorder) is a bad idea.

I think you need to differentiate between ADHD and ADD.
I had thought that some time ago, they had decided that ADD was a subtype of ADHD in the DSM?
I can't find the DSM online or anything, but I can find something from the CDC that seems to support that:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/what.htm

Perhaps somebody else knows more about this than I?

You did not address my point, namely, that Ritalin apparently helps at least some people concentrrate, if we're going to argue using anecdotal evidence.

I had thought that some time ago, they had decided that ADD was a subtype of ADHD in the DSM?
I can't find the DSM online or anything, but I can find something from the CDC that seems to support that:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/what.htm

Perhaps somebody else knows more about this than I?

ADD is Attention Deficit Disorder and ADHD is Attention Deficit HYPERACTIVE Disorder. There are also two types of ADD. There is Behavioral ADD and Learning ADD. Mine was more behavioral until they found out that I actually have ADHD. I could not sit still at all, always fidgeting in class, and very very talkative. They did put me on Ritalin and it made my condition worse. It had the EXACT OPPOSITE affect on me than it did on a friend of mine who also had ADD. He really did have ADD but come to find out, I had ADHD. You do not give a stimulent to a person who has ADHD. I shudder at the memories I have while I was on Ritalin.

Three types of ADHD have been established according to which symptoms are strongest in the individual. These types are described below:

Predominantly Inattentive Type: It is hard for the individual to organize or finish a task, to pay attention to details, or to follow instructions or conversations. The person is easily distracted or forgets details of daily routines.


Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type: The person fidgets and talks a lot. It is hard to sit still for long (e.g., for a meal or while doing homework). Smaller children may run, jump or climb constantly. The individual feels restless and has trouble with impulsivity. Someone who is impulsive may interrupt others a lot, grab things from people, or speak at inappropriate times. It is hard for the person to wait their turn or listen to directions. A person with impulsiveness may have more accidents and injuries than others.


Combined Type: Symptoms of the above two types are equally predominant in the person.

The bottom one, the combined type, is me. I am talkative, I fidget all the time and I am most definitely restless and have a trouble with impulsivity. I won't even talk about option number 1 because it describes me to a T 100%.

As for CHADD, it was worthless for my parents and me. My mom attended meeting regularly but it really didn't do much for us.

I'm still trying to see what your pointing too in regards to ADD being a subtype to ADHD. I don't see it at all in this link.

ADD is Attention Deficit Disorder and ADHD is Attention Deficit HYPERACTIVE Disorder. There are also two types of ADD. There is Behavioral ADD and Learning ADD.
Your assertions are all well and good, but do you have any sources? From what I have seen, ADD has been merged into ADHD.
http://www.add.org/ (Titled add.org, but when iyou go to FAQ or anything, it discusses ADHD)
http://www.chadd.org/ (Which states it serves people with ADHD, despite the name)
http://www.add-adhd.org/ADHD_attention-deficit.html ("ADD is officially called Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, or AD/HD")
Mine was more behavioral until they found out that I actually have ADHD. I could not sit still at all, always fidgeting in class, and very very talkative. They did put me on Ritalin and it made my condition worse. It had the EXACT OPPOSITE affect on me than it did on a friend of mine who also had ADD. He really did have ADD but come to find out, I had ADHD. You do not give a stimulent to a person who has ADHD. I shudder at the memories I have while I was on Ritalin.
Your anecdotal evidence is well and good, but you still haven't provided any evidence towards the entire medical community being wrong in all their studies with attention disorders.
The bottom one, the combined type, is me. I am talkative, I fidget all the time and I am most definitely restless and have a trouble with impulsivity. I won't even talk about option number 1 because it describes me to a T 100%.

As for CHADD, it was worthless for my parents and me. My mom attended meeting regularly but it really didn't do much for us.

I'm still trying to see what your pointing too in regards to ADD being a subtype to ADHD. I don't see it at all in this link.
What I'm pointing to is that fact that it descriibes a disorder in attention alone as a subtype of ADHD.

Your anecdotal evidence is well and good, but you still haven't provided any evidence towards the entire medical community being wrong in all their studies with attention disorders.

I"M LIVING PROOF!!! The docs had to take me off of it because it was doing the exact OPPOSITE of what it was INTENDED TO DO!!! I said it three damn times. How many more before you actually believe it?

What I'm pointing to is that fact that it descriibes a disorder in attention alone as a subtype of ADHD.

The website doesn't depict that.

I"M LIVING PROOF!!! The docs had to take me off of it because it was doing the exact OPPOSITE of what it was INTENDED TO DO!!! I said it three damn times. How many more before you actually believe it?
You can keep yelling it until you're blue in the face, and it won't change the fact that it is anecdotal evidence. It doesn't matter whether I believe your claim about your personal experiences or not, and that isn't the issue. What the issue is, is that clinical trials have shown Ritalin to be effective in at least some people. If that hadn't happened, why would the medical community be using it at all?
The website doesn't depict that.
I'll not bother with that website, and I'll concede on the point of what that specific website says, as it isn't essential.
Look at the other links, specifically the third in my list.

You can keep yelling it until you're blue in the face, and it won't change the fact that it is anecdotal evidence.

How is being living proof and having the docs, the docs mind you not me, take me off of ritalin anecdotal evidence? Ritalin does not work for everyone and they are finding that out. It works in some but not all cases.

It doesn't matter whether I believe your claim about your personal experiences or not, and that isn't the issue. What the issue is, is that clinical trials have shown Ritalin to be effective in at least some people. If that hadn't happened, why would the medical community be using it at all?

You said it yourself. SOME OF THE TIME! Meaning NOT ALL THE TIME. About time you actually stated something truthful.

Whatever. I'll not bother with that website. Look at the other links, specifically the third in my list.

I did. I'm not impressed.

Look, yes, there are a lot of children diagnosed with ADD or ADHD that don't have it, because their parents simply want an excuse for their behaviour. Now, naturally, Ritalin is not going to work on these kids, because OMG guess what? THEY DON'T HAVE ADD OR ADHD!!! But for children who do actually have these problems, who have been properly tested, Ritalin works. It really does. They are less restless, able to focus their energy on single aspects or tasks, able to concentrate on one idea or task.

Thanks to people like you, and lazy parents and teachers, there is an incredible stigma associated with this disorder. Which is why many real cases of it go undiagnosed and untreated.

Thanks to people like you, and lazy parents and teachers, there is an incredible stigma associated with this disorder. Which is why many real cases of it go undiagnosed and untreated.

Who is this last part directed too?

How is being living proof and having the docs, the docs mind you not me, take me off of ritalin anecdotal evidence? Ritalin does not work for everyone and they are finding that out. It works in some but not all cases.
That claim makes sense. If you're only arguing that Ritalin works in some cases and not in others, then of course that's true.

However, it sure didn't look like you were arguing that it only works some of the time earlier, what with quotes like this:
"You do not give a stimulent to a person who has ADHD."
You said it yourself. SOME OF THE TIME! Meaning NOT ALL THE TIME. About time you actually stated something truthful.
Yes, I did say that it worked some of the time. Did I claim that it worked all the time before then? I had thought my entire argument so far was that Ritalin works as it is supposed to on at least some people.
"my point, namely, that Ritalin apparently helps at least some people concentrrate" -me
I did. I'm not impressed.
What will settle this, then? Would the standards from the DSM do it?
Here you go. (http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/dsm4TRclassification.htm#Impulse-Control) The DSM.
The appropriate page being this one:
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/adhd.htm
And the bit that supports my argument being that there isn't a page for ADD, and that it is listed under ADHD:
"Also: ADD, ADHD, hyperkinetic child syndrome, hyperkinetic reaction of childhood, minimal brain damage, minimal cerebral dysfunction, minor cerebral dysfunction"
Does that settle the argument over terminology, or is there some other problem with what I said about that?

That claim makes sense. If you're only arguing that Ritalin works in some cases and not in others, then of course that's true.

Thanks.

However, it sure didn't look like you were arguing that it only works some of the time earlier, what with quotes like this:
"You do not give a stimulent to a person who has ADHD."

They are noticing that Ritalin doesn't work for those with ADHD.

Yes, I did say that it worked some of the time. Did I claim that it worked all the time before then? I had thought my entire argument so far was that Ritalin works as it is supposed to on at least some people.
"my point, namely, that Ritalin apparently helps at least some people concentrrate" -me

For ADD but not for ADHD.

As to your last part, no it doesn't.

As to your last part, no it doesn't.
What must I post for you to consider it accurate? I just posted a link to the very standards that the psychiatrists are using. If that isn't enough, what will be?

What must I post for you to consider it accurate? I just posted a link to the very standards that the psychiatrists are using. If that isn't enough, what will be?

I have ADHD. I know what it is, I know what it does to me and right now, I feel myself getting revved up which is not good considering I'm close to going to bed and if I'm revved up, I know I won't get any sleep.

No research in the world can tell you everything that someone with ADHD is going through. The only way to know what someone goes through with ADHD is to have it yourself. I can tell if someone has ADHD or ADD and I'm mostly right. You can test for it but to really know what it does is all but impossible.

I'm going to pull out of this before I really get going and say something that is going to get me forumbanned.

Who is this last part directed too?

the OP.

ADHD is *absolutely* overdiagnosed.

I have a B.A. in Psychology, and I believe strongly in Psychology's ability to scientifically measure human behavior.

But modern Psychiatry functions like a fracking racket! Pharmaceutical companies give psychiatrists incentives to push their products. And pills are the first place their mind jumps, without fully explaining the effects, side effects, or the addictive qualities of the drugs. They figure 'This may help a bit..or not. What the hell?'

Meanwhile only about a fifth of ADHD diagnosed kids are shown by MRIs to actually have the neurological qualities associated with ADHD.

It's the same with SSRIs. They're used to treat temporary, mild depression when usually in that case the cure is worse than the disease. Do you know that SSRIs are almost as hard to quit cold turkey as opiates?! And they stop working, abruptly, for no known reason, so you have to keep cycling to new drugs. But psychiatrists don't tell people that. They say 'Take this magic pill and feel better'. When in reality SSRIs should only be used to treat severe, suicide level, chemical depression.

Thanks to people like you, and lazy parents and teachers, there is an incredible stigma associated with this disorder. Which is why many real cases of it go undiagnosed and untreated.

Why is it thanks to "people like me?" All I'm doing is saying the disorder is probably incorrectly diagnosed.

You seem to say the same thing:

Look, yes, there are a lot of children diagnosed with ADD or ADHD that don't have it,

So it should be thanks to people like me and you, no?

But I don't think so. I have absolutely nothing to do with the diagnostics or treatment or statistical studies of ADHD. I don't have a kid who's on ritalin and I'm not a member of any school administration. Blame someone else please. :)

Coming from a psych-in-training, I fully believe it's a legitimate disorder. However, I do believe that it's also misdiagnosed, and very overdiagnosed.

ADHD may very well be receiving more blame than it deserves. Lack of parenting is certainly the culprit in some cases. I'm sorry, but when you send your kid to school with a bag of Doritos and 5 Blow Pops for lunch, there's something going on...

ADHD may very well be receiving more blame than it deserves. Lack of parenting is certainly the culprit in some cases. I'm sorry, but when you send your kid to school with a bag of Doritos and 5 Blow Pops for lunch, there's something going on...

And the bolded has what to do with ADD/ADHD?

Coming from a psych-in-training, I fully believe it's a legitimate disorder. However, I do believe that it's also misdiagnosed, and very overdiagnosed.


coming from a pyscho-in-training, I would agree.

Yes, it's way over-diagnosed.

A lot of children only act that way to get more attention from their parents (and others).

And the bolded has what to do with ADD/ADHD?


That was in reference to the lack of parenting comment I made. I actually saw a little girl in a kindergarten class with just that in her lunch bag. When I asked the mother about it, she looked at it and told me it was the girl's lunch. A PARENT doesn't feed their kid junk food and candy, and then expect the child to be healthy and pay attention. Of course, this was the same child we had to call DFACS about because she hadn't bathed in two weeks. Her mother was having her tested for ADHD. The girl was only five years old, and rather malnourished --- personally, I think anyone in that situation would have some trouble paying attention in class. Don't you?

Sorry, I just get rather angry thinking about parents who'll drug their children into complacency, but won't feed, bathe, or clothe them properly. I know not all parents are like that, obviously, but the fact that there are so many just upsets me -- especially when I've seen some of these children firsthand.

I am the parent of an ADD/ADHD child, I was very and I do mean VERY reluctant to put my child on medication. To be sure his diagnosis was correct i took him to several doctors, got several opinions without suggesting previous ones. It took a YEAR of testing both in and out of school before I relented. Even now he is on the minimal amount of medication possible to control his symptoms. Yes he is on Ridalin, have i tried to get him on something else? Yes actually, even though I know it helps him the thought of having my kid on what amounts to speed is disturbing. But my doctor tells me that more then likely since what he is on works so well for him changing could be detremental.... as for a medication not working for you how old are you? believe it or not Ridalin was not meant for those past puberty, the chemecal changes caused by that usually renders ridalin ineffective. Why do you think they dont prescribe it for adults? Well as far as I know anyway....

believe it or not Ridalin was not meant for those past puberty, the chemecal changes caused by that usually renders ridalin ineffective. Why do you think they dont prescribe it for adults? Well as far as I know anyway....
I hadn't heard that before.

"Methylphenidate is a valuable medicine, for adults as well as children with ADHD."
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/Ritalin.html

I hadn't heard that before.

"Methylphenidate is a valuable medicine, for adults as well as children with ADHD."
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/Ritalin.html


Just going by what I was told by several medical professionals *smiles*

I am the parent of an ADD/ADHD child, I was very and I do mean VERY reluctant to put my child on medication. To be sure his diagnosis was correct i took him to several doctors, got several opinions without suggesting previous ones. It took a YEAR of testing both in and out of school before I relented. Even now he is on the minimal amount of medication possible to control his symptoms. Yes he is on Ridalin, have i tried to get him on something else? Yes actually, even though I know it helps him the thought of having my kid on what amounts to speed is disturbing. But my doctor tells me that more then likely since what he is on works so well for him changing could be detremental.... as for a medication not working for you how old are you? believe it or not Ridalin was not meant for those past puberty, the chemecal changes caused by that usually renders ridalin ineffective. Why do you think they dont prescribe it for adults? Well as far as I know anyway....

I started Ritalin when I was in the 5th Grade. I was taken off it midway through 6th grade if I remember correctly.

I am the parent of an ADD/ADHD child, I was very and I do mean VERY reluctant to put my child on medication. To be sure his diagnosis was correct i took him to several doctors, got several opinions without suggesting previous ones. It took a YEAR of testing both in and out of school before I relented. Even now he is on the minimal amount of medication possible to control his symptoms. Yes he is on Ridalin, have i tried to get him on something else? Yes actually, even though I know it helps him the thought of having my kid on what amounts to speed is disturbing. But my doctor tells me that more then likely since what he is on works so well for him changing could be detremental.... as for a medication not working for you how old are you? believe it or not Ridalin was not meant for those past puberty, the chemecal changes caused by that usually renders ridalin ineffective. Why do you think they dont prescribe it for adults? Well as far as I know anyway....


This may be a moot point, but if your kid is on a medication, wouldn't you know how to spell it? (along with detrimental, and chemical)

Sorry, I've got the spellcheck bug going off in my head right now...

The whole ADD/ADHD thing makes me sick. Your kid is misbehaving?! Who'd have ever thought it? Surely there's gotta be something wrong with his mind. It's couldn't possibly be the fact that he's just a misbehaving little shit, could it?

It could. Kids get into trouble. Kids don't pay attention. That's kind of what being a kid is all about. Fucking up alot and learning from your mistakes as you grow.

I've known alot of people who were genuinely geekers, who couldn't sit still or concentrate, even if they truly tried. And then, I've met a whole mob of kids who were just undisciplined little shitheads. Forcing rydalin and other drugs down these kids isn't the answer.

When I started school in maybe 88 or 89, I remember getting my ass busted for being a shit. Fond memories, those, and I had alot of thrashings. Was I a bad kid? No. Was I ADD? No. I was simply a kid. After a good thrashing, I was sure to behave myself after that. Through the years, I guess society changed, and by the time I quit school in February of '00 it was considered a fucking national emergency if a kid screwed up and got thrashed for it. Parents mobbing the schools in protest because their angels got punished for breaking the rules.

People don't hit their children enough. It sounds fucked, but I think it's truth. I say it half-jokingly, as well, but the argument remains. I don't think kids should get pounded on or even spanked if you can keep from it, but goddamnit, instead of blaming some half-assed disorder, we need to put the blame where it belongs: Ineffective parenting and teaching.

That's my take on the whole thing. There -are- genuinely troubled kids, but then there are also alot of kids who are just mischievous and these kids don't need to be drugged. They need their asses busted or their Xbox's thrown out the window.


I know this post is old, but all I have to say about this is the following:

YOU ARE A GENIUS! I simply couldn't agree more!

I love how those of you without ADD/ADHD are quick to advise those of us with the disorder about how to cope with it or treat it (or tell us it doesn't exist.)

I don't have time to link every study proving that ADD/ADHD is real or to correct every mistatement about the disorder in thie thread.

The science of AD/HD is well-documented. It is a real disorder.
The Science of AD/HD (http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/science)
Myths and Misconceptions About AD/HD: (http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/myths)

I'd like to see some facts rather than pure speculation about ADD being overdiagnosed and treated. ADD/ADHD is very real. Rather than face overdiagnosis or an overwillingness to medicate, I've encounter resistance to the diagnosis and a reluctance to medicate from several medical professionals.

The last time I researched the subject for these forums the scientific evidence was overwhelming that -- while ADD/ADHD is sometimes overdiagnosed in some areas -- it is more frequently underdiagnosed. Overall, it is neither overdiagnosed or overtreated. See here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8324366&postcount=138).

For those that aren't trying to be deliberately ignorant, here a couple of helpful resources from the National Institute of Mental Health:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/helpchild.cfm

Fools lost in the woods and refusing maps as unnatural.
Maps don't do any good in the woods if you don't know where you are in the first place, don't know how to orient them, or have a compass. My advice is back-tracking.

Maps don't do any good in the woods if you don't know where you are in the first place, don't know how to orient them, or have a compass. My advice is back-tracking.

Ha, ha. Still your advice is better than insisting the woods is just a figment of imagination and bad parenting and continuing to march on obliviously.

Stop giving the kids the soda pop!

Ha, ha. Still your advice is better than insisting the woods is just a figment of imagination and bad parenting and continuing to march on obliviously.
It seems as if the woods were a metaphor for two completely different things.

Stop giving the kids the soda pop!

Studies have proven that sugar intake and soda pop are not the causes of ADD/ADHD.

Studies have proven that sugar intake and soda pop are not the causes of ADD/ADHD.

That was a bit tongue in cheek. They don't cause ADD. Just all sorts of other behavioural problems!

I love how those of you without ADD/ADHD are quick to advise those of us with the disorder about how to cope with it or treat it (or tell us it doesn't exist.)

I don't have time to link every study proving that ADD/ADHD is real or to correct every mistatement about the disorder in thie thread.

The science of AD/HD is well-documented. It is a real disorder.
The Science of AD/HD (http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/science)
Myths and Misconceptions About AD/HD: (http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/myths)

I'd like to see some facts rather than pure speculation about ADD being overdiagnosed and treated. ADD/ADHD is very real. Rather than face overdiagnosis or an overwillingness to medicate, I've encounter resistance to the diagnosis and a reluctance to medicate from several medical professionals.

The last time I researched the subject for these forums the scientific evidence was overwhelming that -- while ADD/ADHD is sometimes overdiagnosed in some areas -- it is more frequently underdiagnosed. Overall, it is neither overdiagnosed or overtreated. See here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8324366&postcount=138).

For those that aren't trying to be deliberately ignorant, here a couple of helpful resources from the National Institute of Mental Health:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/helpchild.cfm

*Quoted for truth*

Keep up the good work Cat-Tribe.

Okay I personally have ADD. I know other people with this. I believe it is misdiagnosed but so are most disorders. So it is not overly done.:mp5:

This may be a moot point, but if your kid is on a medication, wouldn't you know how to spell it? (along with detrimental, and chemical)

Sorry, I've got the spellcheck bug going off in my head right now...

Is that all the fault you could find with the post? Pretty pathetic if you ask me, so I misspelled something get over it...

I love how those of you without ADD/ADHD are quick to advise those of us with the disorder about how to cope with it or treat it (or tell us it doesn't exist.)

Quick question, do the psychiatrists who hand out diagnoses on it have ADD or ADHD all the time?

No?

Yet they are quick to advise about it, how to cope with it or treat it...

I mean, yeah. Sure. They're psychological health professionals. The same crowd who once called homosexuality a disorder, right?

Is that all the fault you could find with the post? Pretty pathetic if you ask me, so I misspelled something get over it...

What? You want me to find more? You want me to find something else to harp on and say that you were lying? ..or that you're a giant purple alien with twelve eyes and sixteen green toes?

I already said the spellcheck/grammar Nazi in my head was going nuts, so back off.

It's pretty pathetic that many of the people one encounters on the internet can't spell worth a shit, if you ask me..

I'm sorry. I'm still horrified that many of the people I interact with on other forums are completely incapable of conjugating a verb. That revelation left my brain in a state of complete and utter WTF.

I love how those of you without ADD/ADHD are quick to advise those of us with the disorder about how to cope with it or treat it (or tell us it doesn't exist.)

I don't have time to link every study proving that ADD/ADHD is real or to correct every mistatement about the disorder in thie thread.

The science of AD/HD is well-documented. It is a real disorder.
The Science of AD/HD (http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/science)
Myths and Misconceptions About AD/HD: (http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/myths)

I'd like to see some facts rather than pure speculation about ADD being overdiagnosed and treated. ADD/ADHD is very real. Rather than face overdiagnosis or an overwillingness to medicate, I've encounter resistance to the diagnosis and a reluctance to medicate from several medical professionals.

The last time I researched the subject for these forums the scientific evidence was overwhelming that -- while ADD/ADHD is sometimes overdiagnosed in some areas -- it is more frequently underdiagnosed. Overall, it is neither overdiagnosed or overtreated. See here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8324366&postcount=138).

For those that aren't trying to be deliberately ignorant, here a couple of helpful resources from the National Institute of Mental Health:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/helpchild.cfm

All of this is true, but I nevertheless have a great many reservations about the way AD/HD is diagnosed and treated. Granted some of my reservations may be based on lack of understanding, but essentially they come down to the strong suspicion that there is a built-in selection bias in the study process itself.

Essentially, there are flaws in the research process at all stages that lead me to believe that overdiagnosis is at least possible if not likely. First, the pharmaceutical industry has a vested interest in finding illnesses that it can treat with drugs. Second, there tends to be a strong bias in journals of many disciplines toward studies that say there is a relationship between X and Y, on the grounds that no one wants to read a paper that concludes there is no relationship. Third, the advertising industry has a vested interest in making its target demographic as wide and expansive as possible.

Put them together, and it suggests to me that something like AD/HD is going to be treated not as a disease afflicting a few select and unfortunate individuals, for whom treatment would be a godsend, but exactly the way Viagra has morphed from a necessary treatment to save Bob Dole's marriage into a way for forty-something boomers and X-ers to feel like they're pornstars again. The very structure that makes academia and capitalism work make it likely that in the face of unruly children, fears about their future competitiveness on the part of parents, and a potential quick-fix, somebody somewhere out there got the bright idea to put two and two together for fun and profit.

Now granted, I don't have a lot of evidence for this. I don't know how much of the research was done by government agencies and by people with no ties to the pharmaceutical company. I don't know if being able to only get one or two erections a day is really a reason for a drug prescription; maybe it is. But I do think that the structure of industry that makes and markets it, as well as the structure of the professional society that is supposed to research whether AD/HD is a problem, a widespread problem, and whether drugs comprise the best treatment for it are all geared towards overprescription.

Care to tell me what a stimulent does to a person who is already revved up?
In the case of methylphenidate, it stimulates the part of the brain responsible for filtering out distractions.

ADD and ADHD are only disorders in the Western World. In other countries, if the kid is acting up, he gets smacked and he learns that if he acts up again at the wrong time, he's going to get smacked again.

I'm speaking as a person who's been diagnosed with ADHD, and I'll tell you what I think about all of this.

a) ADHD/ADD is seriously overdiagnosed. A lot of these kids are just goddamn LAAAAAZY, and it's not ADHD or anything. They just don't give a shit.

b) Stimulants don't work for me, just like they don't work for Corneliu. Stimulants just make me into even more a batshit insane person.

c) Strattera, however, does work for me. And the thing I can say is "it makes time more even". If you don't have ADHD or ADD, this statement doesn't make any sense at all, from what I understand, but most ADD people know completely what I'm talking about. You know the old saying, "time flies when you're having fun"? It's like that to an extreme. Time SLOWS DOWN SO MUCH when you're bored, and GOES SO FAST when you're having fun. It literally does not seem like that much time has occured. Time's more steady now.

ADD and ADHD are only disorders in the Western World. In other countries, if the kid is acting up, he gets smacked and he learns that if he acts up again at the wrong time, he's going to get smacked again.

:rolleyes:

c) Strattera, however, does work for me. And the thing I can say is "it makes time more even". If you don't have ADHD or ADD, this statement doesn't make any sense at all, from what I understand, but most ADD people know completely what I'm talking about. You know the old saying, "time flies when you're having fun"? It's like that to an extreme. Time SLOWS DOWN SO MUCH when you're bored, and GOES SO FAST when you're having fun. It literally does not seem like that much time has occured. Time's more steady now.

I've been looking into Strattera and hopefully I'll be able to get in to see my doctor about it.

I've been looking into Strattera and hopefully I'll be able to get in to see my doctor about it.

It works. It seriously works. I'm able to focus without hyperfocusing now, and I'm able to focus instead of dis-focusing now.

It works. It seriously works. I'm able to focus without hyperfocusing now, and I'm able to focus instead of dis-focusing now.

So I've been hearing. I'll be talking with my parents about it.

Question -- has anyone else noticed students who are not diagnosed with ADHD taking Adderall? It's midterm week here and, just like last year, people are passing it around like it's candy.

Why do they do this? What kind of damage does this stuff cause?

Question -- has anyone else noticed students who are not diagnosed with ADHD taking Adderall? It's midterm week here and, just like last year, people are passing it around like it's candy.

Why do they do this? What kind of damage does this stuff cause?

I wouldn't know!