NationStates Jolt Archive

Yeah, well, is it?

If you're in another country, substitute "anti-American" with "anti-XXX" where XXX=Your Nation.

How about protesting in general?

I know some of the posters here basically see protesting as a criminal action synonymous with open rebellion against the government. But then, some protesters see the government as basically criminal actions synonymous with outright child-murdering.

I tend to disagree with both extremes.

How about being "right?" or "a right." Is it right to protest? Is it a right to protest?

It's not anti-American to protest. It's the right of every American to do so.

Protest is as American as you can get. Acting against something you think is wrong is one of the premises America was founded on.

Protesting the war, on occassion (more recent occassion) is patriotic. Protesting the soldiers, in the war, is Anti-American (or Anti-XXX).

There is a right to protest both, but that doesn't necissarily mean that they, especially the latter, is right.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

Thomas Jefferson.


Isn't protesting against something your government is doing a form of public dissent?

Yeah, well, is it?

If you're in another country, substitute "anti-American" with "anti-XXX" where XXX=Your Nation.

How about protesting in general?

I know some of the posters here basically see protesting as a criminal action synonymous with open rebellion against the government. But then, some protesters see the government as basically criminal actions synonymous with outright child-murdering.

I tend to disagree with both extremes.

How about being "right?" or "a right." Is it right to protest? Is it a right to protest?
It depends upon how far the "protestors" carry their right to protest. Some forms of protest, particularly those involving violence, are illegal. Some forms of protest, such as those involving foul language and spitting, are just nasty. And some forms of protest, such as harrassing the families of soldiers killed in battle, are totally unacceptable even though they're not technically illegal.

Only if you're a neo-fascist.

It depends upon how far the "protestors" carry their right to protest. Some forms of protest, particularly those involving violence, are illegal.

I'm in agreement, but... what if local and/or federal authorities write laws that make nonviolent protests that were legal in the past or currently, illegal in the future?

In other words, at what point does prohibiting something with bureacratic red-tape become just "the legal way to do something" (against which one is a criminal and not in the right), but actually a concerted effort against freedom (against which one is a criminal, but also in the right)?

Only if it's the war of American Independence.

It depends upon how far the "protestors" carry their right to protest. Some forms of protest, particularly those involving violence, are illegal. Some forms of protest, such as those involving foul language and spitting, are just nasty. And some forms of protest, such as harrassing the families of soldiers killed in battle, are totally unacceptable even though they're not technically illegal.
Protesting is a right. Protest using methods that are illegal is not a right. Protest methods that involve personal bullying are not right.

I usually say that, in my efforts to protest the superfluous (key word there) military actions in other countries, I'm supporting the troops in my own way, therefore nobody has has any right to tell me I'm being anti-American.

However, I haven't been protesting the current military actionin Iraq for awhile now. I recognize the right to my opinion that we shouldn't have been there in the first place, by the logic that was used.....but now that we've muddled, it would be cruel and wretched to not fulfill our obligation. Ergo, I'm no longer completely against the current operations.

"Anti-American" is devoid of all meaning, so I cannot answer that question.

America prides itself on it's having human rights, and being free. Seeing as protesting is a fundemental freedom, I would say that protesting should be an American thing. At least, it's a very Canadian thing.

Protesting the soldiers, in the war, is Anti-American (or Anti-XXX).

I disagree. If they are doing something bad, I will protest the soldiers as well. "Just following orders" didn't work in Nürnberg and it won't work with me, either. If you do something wrong, you still have a responsibility for doing it, never mind that it is the the bidding of your country.

I disagree. If they are doing something bad, I will protest the soldiers as well. "Just following orders" didn't work in Nürnberg and it won't work with me, either. If you do something wrong, you still have a responsibility for doing it, never mind that it is the the bidding of your country.
Well yeah, 99% of the soldiers, anyways. But yes, those responsible for Guantanamo, etc... shouldn't be treated with the respect as someone who served honorably.

Protesting is a right that shouldnt be abused by either law makers or the protesters themselves (getting violent). In my opinion however the traditional protesting of using picket signs and getting into huge groups is stupid and annoying. To me there are several groups of protesters...
1)Dumb protesters- The most common type. Usually college students. These people usually have nothing to do with or are not affected by what is being protested. They protest to be on the band wagon with there friends and to strike out at society. The will use anything from backing up road ways and singing rediculous songs to setting fire to vehicles and sending death threats. They will usually follow there side of the argument blindly and turn a deaf ear to the other.
2)Affected Protester- They are directly affected by whatever is being protested.
3) Smart Protester- These people look at all sides of the issue and use logic to decide which side there on. There protests usually tend not to break anything, be violent or interupt with peoples daily activities. Most of these protests are behind the scenes and are not the type you here on the news.

Well yeah, 99% of the soldiers, anyways. But yes, those responsible for Guantanamo, etc... shouldn't be treated with the respect as someone who served honorably.

There is no honour in waging an unjust war just because you got the order to.

Protesting a war, and the actions of the individuals fighting it, is perfectly OK.

Just so long as you don't turn up at a funeral with homophobic placards.

I'm in agreement, but... what if local and/or federal authorities write laws that make nonviolent protests that were legal in the past or currently, illegal in the future?

In other words, at what point does prohibiting something with bureacratic red-tape become just "the legal way to do something" (against which one is a criminal and not in the right), but actually a concerted effort against freedom (against which one is a criminal, but also in the right)?
Contest the laws in court. The courts are suppose to decide whether a particular law is contrary to the Constitution.

Is placing a comma on this spot, agrammatism?

There is no honour in waging an unjust war just because you got the order to.
Perhaps not, but who's to say which war is "unjust" and which war is "just?"

Contest the laws in court. The courts are suppose to decide whether a particular law is contrary to the Constitution.

Which worked so well for black people. Martin Luther King didn't give that speech in Washington, at all.

Perhaps not, but who's to say which war is "unjust" and which war is "just?"

me

Perhaps not, but who's to say which war is "unjust" and which war is "just?"

The protesters. That's why it's OK to protest soldiers you feel are fighting an unjust war, like say Vietnam.

Just so long as you don't turn up at a funeral with homophobic placards.

Funerals tend to be protected from protests through peace of the grave laws.

Which worked so well for black people. Martin Luther King didn't give that speech in Washington, at all.
Actually, contesting the laws did work, and quite well too. :p

The protesters. That's why it's OK to protest soldiers you feel are fighting an unjust war, like say Vietnam.
And that in turn is why, when said protestors spit and defame and revile, it's ok for those of us who don't believe it's an unjust war, to give back as good as we get. :p

Funerals tend to be protected from protests through peace of the grave laws.
Not that I've noticed here. :(

There is no honour in waging an unjust war just because you got the order to.
Yeah and what could be more unjust than removing a psychotic ba'athist tyranny from power?

No, unless it's Sindy Sheehan.

If you don't worship the US Government, you are anti-american.

Actually, contesting the laws did work, and quite well too. :p

If the laws worked, why they did need the protests? The laws did not work. They needed to be made to work. That is what the protests accomplished.

Yeah and what could be more unjust than removing a psychotic ba'athist tyranny from power?

Putting him there in the first place with the same military, and then when he no longer plays "nice puppet," lying as to why you're removing him.

And that in turn is why, when said protestors spit and defame and revile, it's ok for those of us who don't believe it's an unjust war, to give back as good as we get. :p

It is not okay to spit and defame. Revile is OK.

Protest of Government sanctioned action of any type is a fundamental right of being an American.

Anyone ignorant to suppose the spirit of this nation has no room from protest has no idea how it was founded.

I may not agree with a protestor but I defend his right to be one.

Putting him there in the first place with the same military, and then when he no longer plays "nice puppet," lying as to why you're removing him.
"America did X in the past and X was wrong. Therefore undoing X is wrong."

This argument makes no logical sense.

Yeah, well, is it?

If you're in another country, substitute "anti-American" with "anti-XXX" where XXX=Your Nation.

How about protesting in general?

I know some of the posters here basically see protesting as a criminal action synonymous with open rebellion against the government. But then, some protesters see the government as basically criminal actions synonymous with outright child-murdering.

I tend to disagree with both extremes.

How about being "right?" or "a right." Is it right to protest? Is it a right to protest?

Protesting a war is not anti-american. Protests in general are not anti-american.

I'm in agreement, but... what if local and/or federal authorities write laws that make nonviolent protests that were legal in the past or currently, illegal in the future?

That is why we have courts. It is up to the courts to decide if the laws are Constitutional or not.

If you don't worship the US Government, you are anti-american.

I don't worship the US govenrment. Does that make me anti-american?

Nope, just anti-Bush :D

(Sorry, couldn't resist such a perfect opprtunity for a crack at him hehe)

Oh and incidentally, although I think this point was made before, you need to sort that comma out.

Nope, just anti-Bush :D

(Sorry, couldn't resist such a perfect opprtunity for a crack at him hehe)

:rolleyes:

I don't worship the US govenrment. Does that make me anti-american?

Well duh :p It wasn't that difficult a rule to follow was it? :D

:rolleyes:

Oh don't give me that - I'd do it to anyone else and you know it. (Or you do now at lesat :D)

Well duh :p It wasn't that difficult a rule to follow was it? :D

huh?

"America did X in the past and X was wrong. Therefore undoing X is wrong."

This argument makes no logical sense.

Did he make that argument? It doesn't look like it.

I don't worship the US govenrment. Does that make me anti-american?
Yes.

Yes.

Then your very dillusional. Anyone who worships a government and thinks they cannot do wrong is a fool.

Oh and I love this country and am proud to be the son of a father who is still serving after 33 years in the military and a mother who has served 6 years. I am a proud nephew of many uncles who have served in the military as well.

Still think I'm anti-american?

Funerals tend to be protected from protests through peace of the grave laws.

There is no such law in the US or any of the States yet.

Then your very dillusional. Anyone who worships a government and thinks they cannot do wrong is a fool.

Oh and I love this country and am proud to be the son of a father who is still serving after 33 years in the military and a mother who has served 6 years. I am a proud nephew of many uncles who have served in the military as well.

Still think I'm anti-american?

:D
I never thought you were being anti-american in the first place. I was joking. I wasn't sure if you realised, but looks like I found out.

Oh, and I think you mean "delusional". You seem to have mixed it up with "disillusioned"

:D
I never thought you were being anti-american in the first place. I was joking. I wasn't sure if you realised, but looks like I found out.

Didn't sound like you were joking.

Oh, and I think you mean "delusional". You seem to have mixed it up with "disillusioned"

yea Delusional is what I was going for. My fingers type faster than I think.

It is not okay to spit and defame. Revile is OK.
Revile me and I shall verily smite thee hip and thigh!

Didn't sound like you were joking.

I believe that makes it deadpan? Considering my location is the UK, it seems improbable that I would make that claim. It's also a pretty absurd thing to say anyway, but considering we do occasionally get people on NS who would say stuff like that I can understand that you might take it at face value.

I believe that makes it deadpan? Considering my location is the UK, it seems improbable that I would make that claim. It's also a pretty absurd thing to say anyway, but considering we do occasionally get people on NS who would say stuff like that I can understand that you might take it at face value.

*nods*

Thank you. I didn't read your location tag that stated London, England. And you are right. There are people on here who would say stuff like what you said and why I took it face value.

Yes, protesting is wrong. People are dumb, they don't know what they want. The government has to tell the people what they want. And then not give it to them, JUST TO SHOW THEM.

/idiocy off

Protesting injustice is about as patriotic as you can get in my books. It's the same as a good friend telling you you're fucking up. You may not like it, but somebody needs to say it. A true friend doesn't let a friend fuck up, just like a true patriot doesn't let his or her government fuck up.

Protesting injustice is about as patriotic as you can get in my books. It's the same as a good friend telling you you're fucking up. You may not like it, but somebody needs to say it. A true friend doesn't let a friend fuck up, just like a true patriot doesn't let his or her government fuck up.
No, a good friend tells you if you're doing something wrong. A true friend is in the cell next to you saying, "man, that was some crazy shit!" :p

Protesting injustice is about as patriotic as you can get in my books. It's the same as a good friend telling you you're fucking up. You may not like it, but somebody needs to say it. A true friend doesn't let a friend fuck up, just like a true patriot doesn't let his or her government fuck up.
You assume the protestors are right.

What if they are wrong.

The fact is it shouldnt matter, PROTEST is not good or evil, it is simply a right.
As it should be, if it is SkinHeads goosestepping through a park in Toledo, OH

Or MLK marching on DC-----

Yes, I just compared Skinheads and MLK---get off me.

I dont care if I agree with the protestors or not, Protesting is not un-American.

huh?

Well, he said that if you don't worship the US Government then you're anti-American.

You said that you don't worship the US Government, and asked if you were anti-American.

Surely the answer is blindingly obvious?

I mean fair enough he was joking so it's all somewhat moot, but still...

That is why we have courts. It is up to the courts to decide if the laws are Constitutional or not.

Yeah, but they don't decide if something is "anti-American" or not, which was what the hypothetical question was about.

Yeah, well, is it?

If you're in another country, substitute "anti-American" with "anti-XXX" where XXX=Your Nation.

How about protesting in general?

I know some of the posters here basically see protesting as a criminal action synonymous with open rebellion against the government. But then, some protesters see the government as basically criminal actions synonymous with outright child-murdering.


I tend to disagree with both extremes.

How about being "right?" or "a right." Is it right to protest? Is it a right to protest?

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the soundbyte 'anti-American' was invented by US politicians to dupe ordinary Americans into confusing dissent/protest towards government policy with criticism/hatred of the US public in general.

How often do we hear in pre-war speeches: 'they represent the greatest threat to our freedom'. What the hell does that mean?"!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/ipalatt/die_thread_die.jpg

Protesting is not anti-American. On the other hand there are a whole lot of anti-American protesters. On the third hand there are good ways to protest and there are bad ways to protest. I would not consider those who protest in bad ways either anti-American or un-American, although I'm not one to proudly include them as "American."

Protesting in America is not anti-American. Protesting in a country that has anti-protesting laws would be anti-"whatever that country is".

The first amendment to our Constitution protects our right to free speech, which guarantees us the freedom to speak up about something we disagree with. It does not give us the right to acts of violence or other harmful acts, but peaceful protests (even ones that get loud and rowdy, so long as they are not violent) are as "American as apple pie".