NationStates Jolt Archive

Leon, look at the thing. It may be small and puny, but I could hurt you badly.Very badly. I could stab you in the main artery in the groin area and youd bleed to death before anyone could call 911.
It seems there are many different styles, some more dangerous than others.

They range from this:
http://www.mef.qc.ca/images/kirpan.gif

to this:
http://photos.waheguroo.com/data/media/39/12.jpg

And Wiki says:
The kirpan is the ceremonial dagger carried by Sikhs, as a reminder to fight for justice and against oppression. It is one of the five khalsas, or dress rituals. The word kirpan has the literal meaning of weapon of defence, as opposed to the talwar, the weapon of offence.

Typically made from iron, kirpans range in size from large ceremonial swords to tiny knives worn around the neck. It is required that all Sikhs wear the kirpan at all times. To Sikhs, it is a highly important religious symbol; it is never used as a weapon. Nevertheless, the requirement that baptised Sikhs wear the kirpan has caused problems for believers in many areas, especially where the custom clashes with local ordinances against carrying weapons. In cases where safety regulations conflict with wearing the kirpan, such as boarding an airplane or entering a prison, Sikhs are usually advised to comply with authorities.

It was first established as a principle that one must fight for peace. A Sikh should never use the Kirpan in anger or for a malicious attack. However, a Sikh may use it in self-defence or to protect a person in need. Some Sikhs choose to learn the art of Gatka. This is a martial art devised by the Sikh Gurus' that uses circular movements to effectively swing a sword.

And if we start this case by case basis thing with 'weapons(yes i said weapons) then what if some yahoo gets a small gun approved in school? Then what? Derringers are ok but not 9mm? Where exactly are the lines?
Then we still look at it on a case-by-case basis. And there was a thread recently about a school in the States that now had a shooting range for the students to fire a few rounds when they felt like it.

Would you do me a favor and find out if the Sikhs in your Uni wear it or not?
No problem.

I might be a little bit ignorant too...are Sikhs the only group that always wears the turban on their head? And all of the dudes I see usually also have a beard.

I know when I see their name is "Singh", but usually they don't wear name tags...

Guns being carried religiously reminds me of the old legend of the Danites, Mormon gunslingers who supposedly enforced the Prophet's edicts.

I wonder if their pistols carried any kind of religious relevance. I remember something in some of the Mormon scripture about a "steel bow" being relevant. Not that I'd put too much stick in Mormon scripture, but its a parallel.

I mean if its so symbolic, why should they wear it hidden away?

It is a bit complex.

The reason for the kirpan is for it to remind a Sikh of his duty to protect righteousness even if that means he has to fight.

It is not to flaunt to others that he is a fighter.

You would have to understand the circumstances in which the Gurus lived and the Sikh Khalsa was formed to understand the symbolism.

Would 2 to 2.5 inches meet "pendant sized", and if they so choose to wear it on a belt, in a scabbard, and conceal it as a matter of preference, could that be allowed?

My concern is, I don't want to tell them, "We wear our symbols around our necks as pendants, you must do the same".


Right , thats a good point.

are Sikhs the only group that always wears the turban on their head? And all of the dudes I see usually also have a beard.


Baptised Sikhs are required not to cut hair (any body hair). Hence the turban and the beard.

Other Indian ethnicities like certain Rajasthani hindus and muslims also wear turbans, but not as a religious requirement. It is only that the turban is handy in those desert areas. So it is safe to assume that the turban+beard guys at your Uni would be a Sikh

There is an off chance that one of them could be Osama :eek:

The French approach of banning *all* religious symbols is certainly the best! http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
However, sadly not all are smart enough to realize this yet... :rolleyes:

Well, at least the Sikh aren't a violent religion like the Islam...


Why is it in every religion debate there is random Islam Bashing?

Here is just a thought if wearing these ceremonial daggers is such a massive security threat and by wearing them lethal violence is sure to break out wouldn't the public school in a sikh community have a civil war every week?

Here is just a thought if wearing these ceremonial daggers is such a massive security threat and by wearing them lethal violence is sure to break out wouldn't the public school in a sikh community have a civil war every week?


No, cause that would imply that the Sikh's are the primary concern of threat. The other students could be riled up by their new found freedom to carry a weapon, although a religous symbol, the other students might take things into their own hands and start bringing kitchen knives and hunting knives or whatever just to be defiant. It would be a sad day for a mild mannered Sikh to get cut to pieces by some bullies who dont agree with this allowance of religious freedom. An act of defiance of the school, not the actual Sikh.

Good for the Sikhs and good for the Supreme Court for standing up for the Constitution.

As for the potential danger the Kirpan and its wearer pose? Lets bring some logic to the table:

The OP quoted an article stating that of the about 250 000 Sikhs in Canada, 10% were Orthodox; Orthodox Sikhs being the only ones required to have a Kirpan on their person. 10% of 250 000 Sikhs is 25 000. So we can safely assume that approximately 25 000 people in Canada are permitted to carry a knife for their religion. That is a very small number when you look at it. Yes it is much larger than 2, but think about it; it is much, much smaller than 32 472 665. And of these 25 000 Orthodox Sikhs, how many are actually in school, where this issue takes place? Odds are not all 25 000.

As for this opening doors to allow outrageous suggestions of religious symbolism, did they not say the same for gay marriage; that it would open the door to such things as incest bestiality? I have yet to hear of anyone bringing such issues to the Supreme Court of Canada. When we get right down to it people, the majority of the population is bound be some form of common sense; don’t blow up the issue more than needed.

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither"
-Who said that? oh well

I think the whole issue is a wee bit overblown its impossible to live your life without any sort of risk and i seem to remember a story on CNN about two Hockey fathers who got into an argument about "rough housing" during the game by the time the police arrived one of the men was mortally wounded by the other's fists

so if a grown man can kill another grown man with his bare hands shouldn't we handcuff the teachers to their desks?

No, cause that would imply that the Sikh's are the primary concern of threat. The other students could be riled up by their new found freedom to carry a weapon, although a religous symbol, the other students might take things into their own hands and start bringing kitchen knives and hunting knives or whatever just to be defiant. It would be a sad day for a mild mannered Sikh to get cut to pieces by some bullies who dont agree with this allowance of religious freedom. An act of defiance of the school, not the actual Sikh.

Weren't we here before I went off to eat? If bllies want to beat someone up, they'll beat someone up, get stricter policies on bullying, not ban anything that might provoke a bully (Which, by the way, includes grades, glasses, skin color, clothes, lunch, money, lunch money, walking funny, looking at them too long, talking, teachers, etc.)

Weren't we here before I went off to eat? If bllies want to beat someone up, they'll beat someone up, get stricter policies on bullying, not ban anything that might provoke a bully (Which, by the way, includes grades, glasses, skin color, clothes, lunch, money, lunch money, walking funny, looking at them too long, talking, teachers, etc.)

Not you again. *stabs you with a kirpan*

Not you again. *stabs you with a kirpan*

Okay, so know there's been one count of violence with a kirpan. Still below staplers.

A dagger is a weapon isnt it? Symbolic or not...it is what it is. What if a religious group stated that they must carry 5 things on them at all times...a rope, a bar of soap, a toothpick,a religious book of their choosing and a loaded gun(oh but just a small one...a Derringer)? Whats the difference?
You are thinking in your own terms, not in the terms of another culture. Different cultures have different beliefs, mannerisms, and lifestyles. The difference is cultural attitudes. You find me one instance of any Sikh using a Kirpan in an assault and I will yield to your knee-jerk reactionism. What is the difference between the wearing of the Kirpan by a Sikh and the wearing of a crucifix by, frankly, everyone. Crucifixion was a manner of execution by the Roman Empire, what kind of ludicrous religious symbol is that? Then they are worn around the necks on a necklace. A symbol of death and torture carried around on a necklabe - a potential weapon to an enterprising individual? Sound ridiculous? That is how your argument sounds to me.


You cant have it both ways. It is important to them because it reminds them to fight against oppression and injustice.....fight....clearly meaning the Kirpan is to be viewed as a weapon.
Then you arn't trying to compromise.
The Crucifix supposedly reminds Christians that Jesus died for them and to keep the tenants of the faith. Frankly, I don't know what they are for, and I was raised Christian. They should've stayed on Rosaries.
Symbols are just that - symbols. The Kirpans is symbol of those beliefs you listed. Oh no, fight against injustice! Like the life and death battles in the gladiatorial courtrooms across the country. And the fight against oppression through peaceful marches.

You find me one instance of any Sikh using a Kirpan in an assault and I will yield to your knee-jerk reactionism.

Now she'll tell you she isn't worried about Sikhs using it, but if other people take it and use it.

Now she'll tell you she isn't worried about Sikhs using it, but if other people take it and use it.


I've said that before so I'm sure he's read that. As a parent, I have the right to feel that weapons shouldnt be allowed in schools... I have the right to be concerned that while the Sikhs may never use them as a weapon, someone else could or someone else could decide to bring their own *dagger* to school and hurt someone with it. I care about the safety of people. If you want to fault me for that then go ahead.

I've said that before so I'm sure he's read that. As a parent, I have the right to feel that weapons shouldnt be allowed in schools... I have the right to be concerned that while the Sikhs may never use them as a weapon, someone else could or someone else could decide to bring their own *dagger* to school and hurt someone with it. I care about the safety of people. If you want to fault me for that then go ahead.

...


-_-

What is your definition of weapon exactly? "Anything that looks like a gun or knife"?

...


-_-

What is your definition of weapon exactly? "Anything that looks like a gun or knife"?
"Anything that could be used as a weapon but that isn't already a required piece of school equipment."

I've said that before so I'm sure he's read that. As a parent, I have the right to feel that weapons shouldnt be allowed in schools... I have the right to be concerned that while the Sikhs may never use them as a weapon, someone else could or someone else could decide to bring their own *dagger* to school and hurt someone with it. I care about the safety of people. If you want to fault me for that then go ahead.
Red Herring. What does the fact other people might bring daggers to school have to do with the Sikhs bringing their own daggers to school? Completely irrelevant. Every single day of the year some kid could bring a knife, dagger, gun, mace, axe, great sword, etc to school, the fact Sikhs are now able to carry on their person a part of their religion does in no way manipulate the chance of the former occurring.

I've said that before so I'm sure he's read that. As a parent, I have the right to feel that weapons shouldnt be allowed in schools... I have the right to be concerned that while the Sikhs may never use them as a weapon, someone else could or someone else could decide to bring their own *dagger* to school and hurt someone with it. I care about the safety of people. If you want to fault me for that then go ahead.

This has nothing to do with Sikhs having daggers. Some kids will bring knives to school regardless of whether or not Sikhs are allowed to carry ceremonial daggers.

Besides, what would be easier, fighting a Sikh to get ahold of one of his prized possessions or just grabbing a protractor from someone (and those things have bloody sharp corners) and slashing/stabbing away?

This has nothing to do with Sikhs having daggers. Some kids will bring knives to school regardless of whether or not Sikhs are allowed to carry ceremonial daggers.

Besides, what would be easier, fighting a Sikh to get ahold of one of his prized possessions or just grabbing a protractor from someone (and those things have bloody sharp corners) and slashing/stabbing away?

See, Kiwi said corners, might actually be talking about a protracter this time.
http://www.thursdaysclassroom.com/13oct00/protractors.html

Compass:
http://www.iit.edu/~smart/sheajan1/Compass.gif

I'm not against religious symbols or anything, but I think they should be outlawed because a kid could use religion as an excuse to carry a weapon which they could use to seriously hurt someone.

I'm not against religious symbols or anything, but I think they should be outlawed because a kid could use religion as an excuse to carry a weapon which they could use to seriously hurt someone.

I could use writng as an excuse to carry a pen which I could use to seriously hurt someone.

...


-_-

What is your definition of weapon exactly? "Anything that looks like a gun or knife"?

An instrument used with the strict intent of fighting. Weapons arent always tangible things. Brain washing,intimidation and even words are forms of weaponry. If it seems threatening, then most likely its a weapon. A knife,sword, gun, grenade,tank, baton.....all of those things are synonymous with weaponry. Pecils, pens,staples, flip flops arent. Can they be used as a weapon....sure they can. You keep disecting this and splitting it into very fine hairs when my stance is that guns and knives should never be allowed in schools. When you get out of school and go out into the real world, then do what you like. I shouldnt have to worry about kids carrying knives of any size to school. Youve illustrated how much violence already exists....why add to it?

Do you deny the possibility of other students disproving of this and potentially doing some of the things I've mentioned? bringing other knives to school out of defiance,getting into fights,etc?

"Anything that could be used as a weapon but that isn't already a required piece of school equipment."


Red Herring. What does the fact other people might bring daggers to school have to do with the Sikhs bringing their own daggers to school? Completely irrelevant. Every single day of the year some kid could bring a knife, dagger, gun, mace, axe, great sword, etc to school, the fact Sikhs are now able to carry on their person a part of their religion does in no way manipulate the chance of the former occurring.

New laws and new rules mean controversy. Some of the students who were just potentially violent could now choose to "Rise up" or bring a knife to school just because they feel "if he can so can i." Of course they could bring knives to school any given day of the year. But this is something that provokes thought and you either agree with it or disagree with it. So it is not irrelevant. Not all students are model citizens or respect their fellow peers.

An instrument used with the strict intent of fighting. Weapons arent always tangible things. Brain washing,intimidation and even words are forms of weaponry. If it seems threatening, then most likely its a weapon. A knife,sword, gun, grenade,tank, baton.....all of those things are synonymous with weaponry. Pecils, pens,staples, flip flops arent. Can they be used as a weapon....sure they can. You keep disecting this and splitting it into very fine hairs when my stance is that guns and knives should never be allowed in schools. When you get out of school and go out into the real world, then do what you like. I shouldnt have to worry about kids carrying knives of any size to school. Youve illustrated how much violence already exists....why add to it?

Do you deny the possibility of other students disproving of this and potentially doing some of the things I've mentioned? bringing other knives to school out of defiance,getting into fights,etc?

I kirpan is used by being worn, and it's intent is to show something important to their religion. Why exactly aren't "Pecils [sic], pens,staples, flip flops " weapons? I've used a pencil "with the strict intent of fighting" before, but it's not a weapon, so obviously pontential can't make something (like say, a kirpan) a weapon either...


Alright, here's what I have from you....
Kirpan = Knife
Knife = Not allowed in school
Therefore, Kirpan=Not allowed in school.

The problem here, is that kirpan =/= knife, even if it looks like one to you. And If you'd like to bring up a definition of knife that now includes kirpan, you must realize that this paticular "knife" is generally dull, and has never *except maybe on me by you, so once* been used for violence in a school, and not even outside of a school for what I assume to be a rather long time. There's a difference between kirpan and knife.

Not all students are model citizens or respect their fellow peers.
Certainly not. You know, there was a time when I brought a butterfly knife to school. Everyone did it.

Then someone got caught by the teachers, and got into gigantic trouble. So most people, including me, left them at home.

But the point is: a butterfly knife is not ceremonial. It has one purpose - to be an easily conceilable weapon that can do a lot of damage in a fight.

Carrying a curvy and fancy-looking "dagger" that never leaves the sheith anyway, for everyone to see, is something else entirely. And that is pretty obvious to the kids as well - particularly if the Sikh in question is already wearing a turban and so on as part of traditional dress.

New laws and new rules mean controversy. Some of the students who were just potentially violent could now choose to "Rise up" or bring a knife to school just because they feel "if he can so can i." Of course they could bring knives to school any given day of the year. But this is something that provokes thought and you either agree with it or disagree with it. So it is not irrelevant. Not all students are model citizens or respect their fellow peers.

Failing a class could get a "potentially violent" student to rise up. Not something special to kirpans.

New laws and new rules mean controversy. Some of the students who were just potentially violent could now choose to "Rise up" or bring a knife to school just because they feel "if he can so can i." Of course they could bring knives to school any given day of the year. But this is something that provokes thought and you either agree with it or disagree with it. So it is not irrelevant. Not all students are model citizens or respect their fellow peers.
Which goes back to the red herring. They could do this any day of the year, there is no reason to throw it is as some sort of bs proof that allowing the Sikhs to do it is dangerous to everybody else, because it isn't.

I kirpan is used by being worn, and it's intent is to show something important to their religion. Why exactly aren't "Pecils [sic], pens,staples, flip flops " weapons? I've used a pencil "with the strict intent of fighting" before, but it's not a weapon, so obviously pontential can't make something (like say, a kirpan) a weapon either...


Alright, here's what I have from you....
Kirpan = Knife
Knife = Not allowed in school
Therefore, Kirpan=Not allowed in school.

The problem here, is that kirpan =/= knife, even if it looks like one to you. And If you'd like to bring up a definition of knife that now includes kirpan, you must realize that this paticular "knife" is generally dull, and has never *except maybe on me by you, so once* been used for violence in a school, and not even outside of a school for what I assuming to be a rather long time. There's a difference between kirpan and knife.


Yes you have it correct. It's really that simple. I do not feel that knives should be allowed at school. Do you really think that just because something hasnt happend yet means it never will? The difference between a knife and the kirpan is that one has a religious sentiment.It doesnt change the fact that its a knife, just what kind of knife. If I stab you with a kitchen knife or a kirpan, you'll bleed either way. If we lived in a society that wasnt so violent, then I wouldnt take issue. But we dont and its sad.

People have been stabbed over a pair of Nikes......dont be naive enough to think this couldnt potentially lead to harm.

Which goes back to the red herring. They could do this any day of the year, there is no reason to throw it is as some sort of bs proof that allowing the Sikhs to do it is dangerous to everybody else, because it isn't.

Youre right.....with todays youth, its possible for them to go to school and slit someones throat simply because the ran out of their favorite hair gel.

Yes you have it correct...
What's your stance on gun control, by the way?

And how does barring people from expressing their religion prevent bullies from bringing a knife to school?

Yes you have it correct. It's really that simple. I do not feel that knives should be allowed at school. Do you really think that just because something hasnt happend yet means it never will? The difference between a knife and the kirpan is that one has a religious sentiment.It doesnt change the fact that its a knife, just what kind of knife. If I stab you with a kitchen knife or a kirpan, you'll bleed either way. If we lived in a society that wasnt so violent, then I wouldnt take issue. But we dont and its sad.

People have been stabbed over a pair of Nikes......dont be naive enough to think this couldnt potentially lead to harm.

Just because my school has never exploded doesn't mean it never will, we shouldn't go to school, because, even though it's never happened, there's no reason it couldn't. As far as Nikes, well, that's just it, anything can and will lead to harm, and if you're going to ban kirpans for that, you may as well ban everything else over which someone might get harmed.

Youre right.....with todays youth, its possible for them to go to school and slit someones throat simply because the ran out of their favorite hair gel.
BAN HAIR GEL

It doesnt change the fact that its a knife, just what kind of knife.
In context it does. I assume you are digging through years of news articles looking for me a single article on an assault carried out by a Sikh with a Kirpan.

In context it does. I assume you are digging through years of news articles looking for me a single article on an assault carried out by a Sikh with a Kirpan.

And failing, until wait! Here's one! The ancient war that's the basis for wearing them in the first place!

What's your stance on gun control, by the way?

And how does barring people from expressing their religion prevent bullies from bringing a knife to school?

If they want to bring a bible or a hat or a robe, then fine. I'm not trying to supress anyones religion, I'm saying alllllllllllllllllllllllll knife looking thingys should be left at home.

As for gun control, are we talking straight 2nd amendment or present day? I dont think just any yahoo off the street should be carrying a gun, thats for sure.

See, Kiwi said corners, might actually be talking about a protracter this time.
http://www.thursdaysclassroom.com/13oct00/protractors.html

Compass:
http://www.iit.edu/~smart/sheajan1/Compass.gif

I meant the degree measuring piece of plastic, I did. I swear I've hurt myself with one of those before. :( And they'd be way easier to get ahold of than a Sikh boy's Kirpan. In fact, I'd say that things like protractors are more dangerous due to the fact that I've hurt myself with common school objects many a time, whereas I find it unlikely for an accident to occur with a bound, sheathed, dull knife.

If they want to bring a bible or a hat or a robe, then fine. I'm not trying to supress anyones religion, I'm saying alllllllllllllllllllllllll knife looking thingys should be left at home.


How about those kinfe looking plastic things in our cafeterias? I've personally seen them do waaay more than any kirpan, they must need to be banned even more urgently.

If they want to bring a bible or a hat or a robe, then fine. I'm not trying to supress anyones religion, I'm saying alllllllllllllllllllllllll knife looking thingys should be left at home.

As for gun control, are we talking straight 2nd amendment or present day? I dont think just any yahoo off the street should be carrying a gun, thats for sure.

"All knife looking thingys"... does that include fake plastic knives of the sort that you buy at Halloween? That's most certainly a knife looking thingy.

In context it does. I assume you are digging through years of news articles looking for me a single article on an assault carried out by a Sikh with a Kirpan.

well you know what happens when we assume dont you? No I dont need to. There is no me being right and you being wrong. Its a question of what we feel/think about this law and I have stated my reasons(over and over). You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. I guess you two enjoy poking fun at someone just for expressing their opinions.Very mature.

I'm done.

If they want to bring a bible or a hat or a robe, then fine. I'm not trying to supress anyones religion
Of course you are. You know that a Kirpan-wearing Sikh is not dangerous, and that there is no evidence that they could lead to more violence.

I'm saying alllllllllllllllllllllllll knife looking thingys should be left at home.
I agree with Dinaverg about the plastic knifes at the cafeteria.

As for gun control, are we talking straight 2nd amendment or present day? I dont think just any yahoo off the street should be carrying a gun, thats for sure.
Well, what you are doing is saying "Because some stupid person could get hold of a gun, no hunter should have one."

If they want to bring a bible or a hat or a robe, then fine. I'm not trying to supress anyones religion, I'm saying alllllllllllllllllllllllll knife looking thingys should be left at home.

May we say then that its the potential reaction to the imagery or abstract suggestion of a weapon that you object to?

(I believe we've established that the Kirpan can be rendered such that the actual risk of it being used as a weapon is marginal.)

Are these conceptual implications of weaponry only dangerous when manifested as a tangible symbol, like the pendant-sized Kirpan?

Would a song with weaponry or fighting also make this "fighting" implication?

well you know what happens when we assume dont you? No I dont need to. There is no me being right and you being wrong. Its a question of what we feel/think about this law and I have stated my reasons(over and over). You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine. I guess you two enjoy poking fun at someone just for expressing their opinions.Very mature.

I'm done.

I poke fun at your what your opinions are, not at you. You I respect, which is why your opinion suprises me, what with your automatic reaction to "knife-looking thingys"

Of course you are. You know that a Kirpan-wearing Sikh is not dangerous, and that there is no evidence that they could lead to more violence.


I agree with Dinaverg about the plastic knifes at the cafeteria.


Well, what you are doing is saying "Because some stupid person could get hold of a gun, no hunter should have one."

Woohoo! Someone important agrees with me!

Woohoo! Someone important agrees with me!
I'm hardly important. :p

I'm hardly important. :p

Well...I bet more people remember you. :P


Hmm....I know lots of people say "I'm done" then just come back and respond but....maybe Peech is one of the few who actually stick to it?

And failing, until wait! Here's one! The ancient war that's the basis for wearing them in the first place!
Still, they probably wore a full sized sword to war, and kept a dagger as symbolism. Nobody is going to rush into war with a dagger.

Still, they probably wore a full sized sword to war, and kept a dagger as symbolism. Nobody is going to rush into war with a dagger.

Except Hugo Weaving, who has the God of Digital Effects Rendering on his side, giving unto him the Blessing of the Slow-mo Action Sequence.

Still, they probably wore a full sized sword to war, and kept a dagger as symbolism. Nobody is going to rush into war with a dagger.

True, so that's like.....Never?

Except Hugo Weaving, who has the God of Digital Effects Rendering on his side, giving unto him the Blessing of the Slow-mo Action Sequence.

I prefer the Blessing of Unkillable Main Character. but Hollywood's been violating that recently, mostly in books and webcomics now.

How about those kinfe looking plastic things in our cafeterias? I've personally seen them do waaay more than any kirpan, they must need to be banned even more urgently.
Yeah, I mean seriously, I got killed by one.

True, so that's like.....Never?
I don't quite get what you mean by that.

Yeah, I mean seriously, I got killed by one.

ZOMBIE! DIE UNDEAD EVIL! *re-kills with stapler*

I don't quite get what you mean by that.

Well, never in our recorded news, not even in that acient war....I suppose you could say there must have been a kirpan attack sometime in history, but eh. As far as we know, never.

ZOMBIE! DIE UNDEAD EVIL! *re-kills with stapler*

Why do people always assume zombification when people state their being dead? Whatever happened to ghosts? Somebody think of the disembodied spirits!

Why do people always assume zombification when people state their being dead? Whatever happened to ghosts? Somebody think of the disembodied spirits!

How would an ethreal being communicate with the computer? Unless he phased inside the eletronitcs...

Why do people always assume zombification when people state their being dead? Whatever happened to ghosts? Somebody think of the disembodied spirits!

Let's agree that, under most rules, you would be effected by the Turning abilities of a Cleric, or the half-assed Turning of a Paladin.

Anyway, to stay on topic, a Kirpan wielded by a devout believer could certainly be argued as having some kind of Blessed status, or at least a "+1" pity modifier.

Course, we've established that the ones allowed in school will do 1d6-6 damage...

Let's agree that, under most rules, you would be effected by the Turning abilities of a Cleric, or the half-assed Turning of a Paladin.

Anyway, to stay on topic, a Kirpan wielded by a devout believer could certainly be argued as having some kind of Blessed status, or at least a "+1" pity modifier.

Course, we've established that the ones allowed in school will do 1d6-6 damage...

Should I be more worried that you can talk lke that, or that I understood you?

How would an ethreal being communicate with the computer? Unless he phased inside the eletronitcs...

Hey man, when I die I'm haunting the internet.

And uh... maybe they could be some sort of poltergeist-ish thing. That can type into computers. Ooh! Or maybe they can possess people and force them to go on NationStates.

Should I be more worried that you can talk lke that, or that I understood you?

You should be worried that one day, "There will be no more room in Hell, and the Dead shall walk the earth, and yea, verily, also incorporeal cyberwraiths like Kiwi-kiwi"...

And you might not have any friends who carry around blessed weapon icons, and then you've got to convince the drunk, de-frocked catholic priest down the hall to bless your pump-action shotgun, and there will be a big argument over whether he should bless the gun or the shells.

And the whole thing will be directed by Tim Burton, with no help from George Romero or Tom Savini.

And then you'll be fucking sorry.

EDIT: On topic, how many would agree with a 2 1/2 inch, blunt Kirpan, sheathed and not to be brandished at anybody, as being a reasonable concession?

You should be worried that one day, "There will be no more room in Hell, and the Dead shall walk the earth, and yea, verily, also incorporeal cyberwraiths like Kiwi-kiwi"...

And you might not have any friends who carry around blessed weapon icons, and then you've got to convince the drunk, de-frocked catholic priest down the hall to bless your pump-action shotgun, and there will be a big argument over whether he should bless the gun or the shells.

And the whole thing will be directed by Tim Burton, with no help from George Romero or Tom Savini.

And then you'll be fucking sorry.

Well.....that sucks.....(bless the shells)

EDIT: On topic, how many would agree with a 2 1/2 inch, blunt Kirpan, sheathed and not to be brandished at anybody, as being a reasonable concession?

Well, the first concession that would come to mind for me is simply have the sheaths sewn shut, they really aren't supposed to come out anyways, and they could find a much better weapon than their kirpan should they truely need to defend righteousness.

Why is it in every religion debate there is random Islam Bashing?

Mostly because Buddists, Christians, Confuscians, Hindus, Jainists, Jews, Rastas, Shintoists, Taoists, or Zoroastrians rarely blow people up or run fanatical terrorist training schools.

Wahabbism took away Islam's message of tolerance and *has* turned a branch of it into a violent religion. :(

Mostly because Buddists, Christians, Confuscians, Hindus, Jainists, Jews, Rastas, Shintoists, Taoists, or Zoroastrians rarely blow people up or run fanatical terrorist training schools.

Wahabbism took away Islam's message of tolerance and *has* turned a branch of it into a violent religion. :(

There's a Taoist group that runs a terrorist school, but the students are taught wei wu wei, blow up the building by not blowing it up.

At my old school the technology rooms had 12 inch long, inch wide, metal chisels designed to slice through hardwood; we had large pairs of scissors which were vicously sharp and pointed; we had electric drills which were battery operated and could be carried around; the food tech room had enormous knives as long as your forearm. I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten. With the exception of the scissors, any of these items could have been stolen with ease (no locks, nobody watching the rooms at break and lunch time).

Compared to this, why would anyone worry about a kid carrying a two-inch long, blunt, ceremonial dagger for religous reasons?

Compared to this, why would anyone worry about a kid carrying a two-inch long, blunt, ceremonial dagger for religous reasons?

Because it's knife looking.

At my old school the technology rooms had 12 inch long, inch wide, metal chisels designed to slice through hardwood; we had large pairs of scissors which were vicously sharp and pointed; we had electric drills which were battery operated and could be carried around; the food tech room had enormous knives as long as your forearm. I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten. With the exception of the scissors, any of these items could have been stolen with ease (no locks, nobody watching the rooms at break and lunch time).

Compared to this, why would anyone worry about a kid carrying a two-inch long, blunt, ceremonial dagger for religous reasons?

:confused: umm, have you SEEN kids today? The inner-city idiots would stab each other with a thumbtack given the chance!:rolleyes:

:confused: umm, have you SEEN kids today? The inner-city idiots would stab each other with a thumbtack given the chance!:rolleyes:

Then ban thumbtacks, earth is full, go home.

:confused: umm, have you SEEN kids today? The inner-city idiots would stab each other with a thumbtack given the chance!:rolleyes:

Your point being? Incidently I only left last year so I'm not out of touch if that's what you mean.

Because it's knife looking.

Yes, knifeyness is to be avoided at all costs! :)

Ok, listen. It's a public school. There are children there. No weapons should be allowed.

Would you be this tolerant if it was a Christian of Jewish issue?
Because the idea of a no weapon zone around schools has worked out SO WELL in the past.