NationStates Jolt Archive

Personally i both morally disagree with nationalism but hypocritically am Extremely Nationalist.
Or at least Anti-Everyone else.
Does nationalism serve a purpose in this day and age?
My view is Internation-Nationalism.
Im all for unification, as long as its MY countries banner flying.

Personally i both morally disagree with nationalism but hypocritically am Extremely Nationalist.
Or at least Anti-Everyone else.
Does nationalism serve a purpose in this day and age?
My view is Internation-Nationalism.
Im all for unification, as long as its MY countries banner flying.

What the hell are you talking about?
I tried to think of something polite to say...

What the hell are you talking about?
I tried to think of something polite to say...

I know i shouldnt be nationalist, but i am.
Does it serve a purpose.
Im all for unification of countries and the United states of Earth or whatever, as long as my country is in charge. thats a joke.

Nationalism is only OK when it's connected to silly things like sports, where it is a kind of parodying pastiche of itself.

Im more of a Nationalism ARM THE PEOPLE MARCH ON OTHER COUNTRIES SIEG HEIL! guy.
But if i were in charge of a country itd all be good on the inside :) all equal and that. its just you dont wanna be anywhere on the other side of the border or you get :sniper:

Personally i both morally disagree with nationalism but hypocritically am Extremely Nationalist.
Or at least Anti-Everyone else.
Does nationalism serve a purpose in this day and age?
My view is Internation-Nationalism.
Im all for unification, as long as its MY countries banner flying.

Don't drink and politic.

Nationalism is stupid. What does the land on the otherside of the continent have to do with me?

Nationalism is fine if you're a citizen of one of the good nations. Nationalism in the other nations is just stupid and should be stamped out.

Personally i both morally disagree with nationalism but hypocritically am Extremely Nationalist.
Or at least Anti-Everyone else.
Does nationalism serve a purpose in this day and age?
My view is Internation-Nationalism.
Im all for unification, as long as its MY countries banner flying.

:rolleyes: Some of what you said was kind of contradictory, but I kind of understand what you are talking about.

I believe nationalism is a dying ideal, mostly because people just aren't as interested in fighting for an ideal. Nationalism gives people the drive to defend their homeland to their last drop of blood. Without that drive, whats to stop other, more aggressive and nationalistic countries from vanquishing them?

Nationalism is both a curse and a blessing, with it, you can defend your nation and have something you believe in, but with it you also lose sight of what the goal of the world actually is: peace.

Personally i both morally disagree with nationalism but hypocritically am Extremely Nationalist.
Or at least Anti-Everyone else.
Does nationalism serve a purpose in this day and age?
My view is Internation-Nationalism.
Im all for unification, as long as its MY countries banner flying.
Nationalism is a good thing. Don't confuse it with National Socialism. Theres nothing wrong with sticking up for your country and culture.

Personally i both morally disagree with nationalism but hypocritically am Extremely Nationalist.
Or at least Anti-Everyone else.
Does nationalism serve a purpose in this day and age?
My view is Internation-Nationalism.
Im all for unification, as long as its MY countries banner flying.

I'm more patriotic than nationalist, and I'm completely against unification. I'd rather see the larger states in the world break up, and have economic unions in place of larger nations.

I support my country as long as I think it's helping humanity.

You sound like an imperialist.

I say nay to Nationalism.

Ultimately people are divided more by class than by national borders.

Ultimately people are divided more by class than by national borders.
Or by anything else. Class is the ultimate divider.

Nationalism is only OK when it's connected to silly things like sports, where it is a kind of parodying pastiche of itself.
Here here!

i dunno, I recently found myself becoming more of a nationalist to, but not in a militant way... I realize that nationalism is a great causer of problems

Nationalism is only OK when it's connected to silly things like sports, where it is a kind of parodying pastiche of itself.

Agreed. When it's rooting for the national team in a sport, it's all in fun.

I hate you all.

Sorry, what I meant was:

Thank you for the interesting debate.

Sorry for any confusion.

Nationalism is fine if you're a citizen of one of the good nations. Nationalism in the other nations is just stupid and should be stamped out.

What constitutes a good nation? How can you decide which countries are "OK" to be nationalist?

There's nothing wrong with loving one's country, so long as they're ready to admit when their country is wrong and oppose their government when it's wrong.

Ultimately people are divided more by class than by national borders.

Marx lived in XIX century, Revolution in Russia happened ~90 years ago, Communism has at last fallen 17 years ago, but some people still believe in it:rolleyes:


The point is to divide Nationalism and Patriotism. Someone who acts patriotic can be far from Nationalism, and a nationalist can be far from being patriotic.

Nationalism is fine if you're a citizen of one of the good nations. Nationalism in the other nations is just stupid and should be stamped out.

I think you've summed it up perfectly. :p

I consider myself patriot. In the UK I guess this can be even more of an issue - I consider myself Scottish, and will correct anyone saying I'm British because I am fiercely proud of where I come from.

I am, however, quite happy to mock my country when appropriate, and am not blind to the problems we have in both Scotland and Britain. Magdha makes a good point there.

There was a quote that fits this thread well.

"I love my country too much to be a nationalist."

Albert Camus.

Still, if a government acts in the best interest of its citizens without trampling on their freedoms, that can only be considered "wrong" by a foreigner. Protectionism and nationalism are legitimate responses for a country that wants to develop its economy and affirm itself in the regional and international scene. Were the Romans wrong to expand their Empire? Were the British? Was Napoleon? Even though the world is definitely a better place because of it?

Still, if a government acts in the best interest of its citizens without trampling on their freedoms, that can only be considered "wrong" by a foreigner. Protectionism and nationalism are legitimate responses for a country that wants to develop its economy and affirm itself in the regional and international scene.
You talk about not trampling on freedoms, and in the very next sentence mention protectionism? Is that not a contradiction?

There's nothing wrong with loving one's country, so long as they're ready to admit when their country is wrong and oppose their government when it's wrong.
Well, that would require someone to actually know when their country is doing "wrong", and be able to accurately judge it to be so.

You know that I personally think Extraordinary Rendition is wrong, and very much something worth opposing. But tell that to those who are supposed to act (ie "patriotic Americans") and I get yelled at or dismissed as an "arrogant European".

I'm for nationalism. Theres nothing wrong with having pride in what your country does, if you beleive in it and stand by it. Theres tons of things that people should be proud of. Being proud is a good thing. Its depressing to see people who hate their country, hate themselves...etc.

Also, am I the only one wondering why a Nationalist-Communist is screaming Sieg heil? :eek: :confused:

eh...

Its depressing to see people who hate their country, hate themselves...etc.
You make the silly error of assuming a dicotomy between loving your country and hating it.

You make the silly error of assuming a dicotomy between loving your country and hating it.

I say what I see.

I say what I see.
So there are no people who don't "love their country" or who aren't "proud of their country" - and yet feel no hate for it either? Or who might even enjoy living there?

So there are no people who don't "love their country" or who aren't "proud of their country" - and yet feel no hate for it either? Or who might even enjoy living there?

No, from my experiences only the ignorant are without a real view. And they are just uniformed and have not been exposed to their view yet.

Although, I admit that my experiences come from being an American in America.

I hear that pride and love for country is at a big low in Germany, and that there is alot of depression.....But, I've never been so I'm just going by what I hear.

I say what I see.
No, you don't. The assertion that you must either love your country or hate it is ridiculous. It's lie saying that either broccoli is my favourite food, or I refuse to eat it at all.

If you actually ask people how they feel about their country rather than making baseless assumptions, perhaps your claims will mae sense next time.

No, you don't. The assertion that you must either love your country or hate it is ridiculous. It's lie saying that either broccoli is my favourite food, or I refuse to eat it at all.

If you actually ask people how they feel about their country rather than making baseless assumptions, perhaps your claims will mae sense next time.

Well, considering you dont know me and have no idea how my conversations with people go, I'd say your just trying to corner me into a wall. Anyway, my view on love thy country is this.

Love it or leave it.

No, from my experiences only the ignorant are without a real view.
See, there's your problem. I never mentioned anything about people being "without a view", so you are arguing against a strawman. My point is that there are plenty of views other than absolutely loving your country and detesting it.

No, from my experiences only the ignorant are without a real view. And they are just uniformed and have not been exposed to their view yet.
You know that I was decribing myself, my friend.

Well, considering you dont know me and have no idea how my conversations with people go, I'd say your just trying to corner me into a wall. Anyway, my view on love thy country is this.

Love it or leave it.
That may or may not be a perfectly good view, but that is not the issue. You are stating that that is what everybody else's view is as well, which is simply not true.

You know that I was decribing myself, my friend.

Of course I do, my good German buddy, but, as I said in a previous post, my experiences come from being an American in America talking with other Americans. You, being a German formerly from Germany now living in Australia dont really fit in with my assumption based on my experiences.

Hows that?

Of course I do, my good German buddy, but, as I said in a previous post, my experiences come from being an American in America talking with other Americans. You, being a German formerly from Germany now living in Australia dont really fit in with my assumption based on my experiences.

Hows that?
Still not making any sense. :p

Still not making any sense. :p

Made perfect sense to me. I was making my assumptions based of other Americans in America.

Hows that?
That's all fine and dandy, but it sorta should make you realise that there are plenty of people who aren't patriots or nationalists, yet still don't hate their country.

Furthermore, I would argue that there are people like me in the States as well. Some of them might be on this forum.

And if their number is indeed small, I might attribute that to the fact that nationalism is being forced down people's throats all the time in the US. It's always citing pledges, singing anthems, waving flags, supporting troops etc etc.
So people might be more likely to either accept it, or reject it completely. It may be more difficult to just take a middle ground if you get bombarded like that.

That's all fine and dandy, but it sorta should make you realise that there are plenty of people who aren't patriots or nationalists, yet still don't hate their country.

Furthermore, I would argue that there are people like me in the States as well. Some of them might be on this forum.

And if their number is indeed small, I might attribute that to the fact that nationalism is being forced down people's throats all the time in the US. It's always citing pledges, singing anthems, waving flags, supporting troops etc etc.
So people might be more likely to either accept it, or reject it completely. It may be more difficult to just take a middle ground if you get bombarded like that.

But people like me would say there is nothing bad with all the nationalism. They would say, if anything its a good thing we have the pledge and our anthems and everything. It promotes unity, strenght, honor, respect and pride. These are all things most of us Americans admire.

I understand that you Germans dont see it that way, because your country was leveled by these concepts, but you need to understand, just because Germany was devastated by nationalist, doesnt mean it wasnt a boon to other places. Look at Austria-Hungary. Nationalism brought the oppressed people of that country their own soverign states.

But people like me would say there is nothing bad with all the nationalism.
As long as it only looks inward, yes.

But that's not the issue. The issue is that people so often don't get to make the decision themselves. They are forced to either accept and be patriotic or be pushed into a corner in which they naturally begin to dislike the country (that being said, I think most simply hate the establishment that rules it).

You talk about not trampling on freedoms, and in the very next sentence mention protectionism? Is that not a contradiction?

Not at all. Protectionism pertains to strengenting a country's economy by taxing foreign imports and exporting as much as possible. That way, domestic consumers will more often then not buy national products boosting the economy and, since the exports are greater than the imports, generate more wealth which will increase quality of life.

Not at all. Protectionism pertains to strengenting a country's economy by taxing foreign imports and exporting as much as possible. That way, domestic consumers will more often then not buy national products boosting the economy<snip>
Exactly my point. Protectionism is coercing domestic consumers into buying domestically by raising the price of foreign goods artificially.

Protectionism pertains to strengenting a country's economy by taxing foreign imports and exporting as much as possible.
I think that would be Mercantilism, and we abandoned that a hundred years ago. Free Trade is where it's at.

Protectionism doesn't coerce anything. It "protects" national producers from potencially larger foreign producers. In other words it puts national products first. The consumer can buy whatever he likes. Besides, how strong would a country's economy be if everything (or most products) were imports? That would cause a recession.

And protectionism and mercantilism are pretty different. Check these links to see the difference between the two:

Mercantilism: http://www.answers.com/topic/mercantilism?method=22

Protectionism: http://www.answers.com/protectionism

Also, sorry about my first definition of protectionism. It is half wrong. Protectionism doesn't involve exporting, just tariffs and quotas put on imports. :)

Besides, how strong would a country's economy be if everything (or most products) were imports?
I don't know. Ask Luxembourg.

That would cause a recession.
You know what else could cause a recession? Alan Greenspan having a fart.

I'm an Econ student, I know perfectly well what we are talking about and protectionism is the reason most cars in the US are now Japanese.

Also, sorry about my first definition of protectionism. It is half wrong. Protectionism doesn't involve exporting, just tariffs and quotas put on imports. :)
Protectionism is not the way to go. Imagine it in its ultimate form. Each household decides to become self-sufficient. Theoretically, it could. What would this entail? Working itself to the bone. In other words, it would work, but the sacrifice is so high that it's not worth it. The same principle applies to a nation.