NationStates Jolt Archive

A lot of people seem to think that colleges and their students are a lot more left-leaning than the general population. Is this true, and why (poll coming)?

PROTESTOR: "What do we want?"
OTHER PROTESTORS: "Free education"

First, you need to figure out where you are looking. In some countries or places, colleges might indoctrinate students into fascists thoughts and the like.

Second, realise that students are usually idealist. They are usually smart too. Combine idealism with intelligence and a feeling of solidarity with your fellow students and you get a type of socialism. Of course, student-type socialism tends to be unrealistic, except for the ones who develop it further.

Eh, waiting for polls is for sissies. :p

It's true here - university students in general are a LOT more left than the average citizen.

From what I saw at a large midwestern University, I'm not so sure about this being the case in the US, to put it mildly...

young people tend to be more liberal.

Left-Leaning colleges are like that cos.
QUANTUM DAMMIT!
If there are right-leaning colleges, there must be lefts.

Because people in college tend to be more knowledgeable than people who aren't.

Because people in college tend to be more knowledgeable than people who aren't.




:rolleyes:

Which colleges? And how are colleges able to be political?

:rolleyes:

What? No white text to hide sarcastic comments?

how could you!? I mean, seriously, white text rocks!

Which colleges? And how are colleges able to be political?

Colleges in general. I was referring in particular to the US, but those in any Western country, too. And I'm not saying that the actual building or something has a political leaning, but that the average leaning of the students/professors is further to the left than the national average.

Which colleges? And how are colleges able to be political?

Fass, I don't think it's so much the colleges as the students and teachers within them.

There usually tends to be a communist or socialist student group, whereas fascist groups tend not to exist as blatantly (though they probably do).

Come to think of it, I have never heard of any local communist or socialist student group, just individual communist and socialist students.

It's because the students in general become more liberal, i.e. they think they can change the world 'n shit. And the professors used to be college students themselves.

But it also tends to be based on which field of study you're in. My Economics prof. is certainly more conservative then, for example, my World Ecological Problems one :D

Second, realise that students are usually idealist. They are usually smart too. Combine idealism with intelligence and a feeling of solidarity with your fellow students and you get a type of socialism. Of course, student-type socialism tends to be unrealistic, except for the ones who develop it further.

All types of socialism are unrealistic. Some are just more unrealistic than others.

A lot of people seem to think that colleges and their students are a lot more left-leaning than the general population. Is this true, and why (poll coming)?

Define "left-leaning." Edit: ...and "liberal."

Because people in college tend to be more knowledgeable than people who aren't.

Wow...thats a rather presumptious comment dont you think? One of the smartest men i know only made it to his sophmore year in high-school, and dropped out. at the age of 26, he took the SAT's, and scored nearly 1300 on them. I'm well aware of the fact that this isnt a genius accomplishment, but it illustrates how college attendance is totally seperate from intelligence.

Define "left-leaning." Edit: ...and "liberal."

I didn't mention liberals, just those who lean politically leftwards. I don't know how to define it exactly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#Left-wing_Ideologies

On a side note, try looking up "left-leaning" on dictionary.com. It will give you a quite humorous suggestion.

Wow...thats a rather presumptious comment dont you think? One of the smartest men i know only made it to his sophmore year in high-school, and dropped out. at the age of 26, he took the SAT's, and scored nearly 1300 on them. I'm well aware of the fact that this isnt a genius accomplishment, but it illustrates how college attendance is totally seperate from intelligence.I said "tend to be". I realize that not everyone who isn't in college is dumb, and not everyone who is in college is smart. I do realize that it would be elitist to think that the trend is true for everyone.

Because people in college tend to be more knowledgeable than people who aren't.


:rolleyes:

Actually, the social/political science literature does identify a corelation between level of education and engagement in the political process. Those with higher levels of education tend to vote more often than those with lower levels. Then again, the literature also identifies age and income as relevant factors; the younger and those earning smaller incomes tend to vote less.

At any rate, being knowledgable is not necessarily being correct.

I didn't mention liberals,


Yes you did:


Because rich, snotty (or something similar) people tend to be liberal.
Because smart (or something similar) people tend to be liberal.
Because college-age people tend to be more liberal than others



I don't know how to define it exactly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#Left-wing_Ideologies


That link to Wikipedia demonstrates the problem with your question. What meaning does "left-leaning" have where there are obviously any number of different ways one can "lean" within the context of "left" ideologies. Obviously, different populations are going to have differing opinions about what qualifies. As such, a more precise definition of "left-leaning" is required.

*it's because of left-leaning professors mostly. 18-22 year olds are impressionable and programs such as poli sci and philosophy are full of liberal democrats trying to, rather than show the merits of different points of view, try to pawn their ideas off on said impressionable minds*

there is no reliable study showing that liberals are smarter than conservatives, or vice-versa


most rich people are republicans (for obvious reasons)

most business people (MBAs) are republicans (for obvious reasons)

most lawyers are democrats (for obvious reasons)



most people who made $50K or more annually (or some such figure) voted for Bush in 2004

more people with a bachelor's degree as their terminal degree voted for Bush

slightly more Master's and PhDs voted for Kerry

Smart people are liberal. Dumb people are republicans. Young people are dilinquents. Old people all need Depends. Independents are all bi-sexual. Priests all rape little boys.

Smart people are liberal. Dumb people are republicans. Young people are dilinquents. Old people all need Depends. Independents are all bi-sexual. Priests all rape little boys.

I'm a republican, and my IQ is 146 and I have a Master's degree. Your statement is patently false.

i'm sorry to stomp around like a prideful ogre, but sheesh, such blanket statements that a person's political ideology is a valid/reliable indicator of his intelligence is, frankly, moronic.

#5

i'm going to the university of kansas next year, apparently it's pretyt liberal for being in a red state.

i'm sorry to stomp around like a prideful ogre, but sheesh, such blanket statements that a person's political ideology is a valid/reliable indicator of his intelligence is, frankly, moronic.

Somehow I don't think your reaching that potential if you think this is a serious post:Smart people are liberal. Dumb people are republicans. Young people are dilinquents. Old people all need Depends. Independents are all bi-sexual. Priests all rape little boys.
I want to say something else but I'm awestruck that you even made that reply.

#5

i'm going to the university of kansas next year, apparently it's pretyt liberal for being in a red state.

are you buying season football or basketball tickets?

the football program is on the rise with Mangino and basketball at KAnsas, well I don't need to remind you of the status of the program.

I'm a republican, and my IQ is 146 and I have a Master's degree. Your statement is patently false.
Well Duh With an IQ of 146 you can not detect sarcasm?

Somehow I don't think your reaching that potential if you think this is a serious post:
I want to say something else but I'm awestruck that you even made that reply.

i have on my serious face today. hehe

point made... i'll try to relax a bit.

From my recent experiences at a state university, I think there is a leftist trend for some colleges. But I emphasize colleges. I graduated with a degree in engineering. None of my engineering professors cared about your politics, and didn't push their own. There was some talk about Christianity, but that was twice in 5 years.

My classes for 'general education', involving BA degree courses, did include more in the way of political and social commentary on the part of professors and teachers.

Astraeus']From my recent experiences at a state university, I think there is a leftist trend for some colleges. But I emphasize colleges. I graduated with a degree in engineering. None of my engineering professors cared about your politics, and didn't push their own. There was some talk about Christianity, but that was twice in 5 years.

My classes for 'general education', involving BA degree courses, did include more in the way of political and social commentary on the part of professors and teachers.

i hear that

the trend in my social science and journalism undergrad classes at UW was toward a USian democrat's point of view... but once i got into B school, those tables turned.

Yes you did:

Oops, I didn't notice that. I guess I use liberal and left-leaning interchangeably. Sorry about that, it should have said left-leaning.

As such, a more precise definition of "left-leaning" is required.

Just use your definition of it. Or if they have more in common with left ideologies than right ones.

meh, depends on what college it is... mine was def left leaning...

The profs had a rep for being more liberal and that attracted more "liberal" students... there were a few hardcore conservatives, but very few

Colleges in the U.S. are predominately liberal because the more intelligent that one becomes, the more liberal he or she votes.

*it's because of left-leaning professors mostly. 18-22 year olds are impressionable and programs such as poli sci and philosophy are full of liberal democrats trying to, rather than show the merits of different points of view, try to pawn their ideas off on said impressionable minds*

What a load of groundless bullshit. You know that college students tend to be more liberal because they are young and compassionate. It doesn't mean they're right, I'm just pissed off at these "lefty brainwashing conspiracy" theories.

most rich people are republicans (for obvious reasons)

most business people (MBAs) are republicans (for obvious reasons)

most lawyers are democrats (for obvious reasons)

Not all these reasons are so obvious to me. Please explain them, especially the one about lawyers. I think you are so pro-Republican that everything you don't like must = Democrat. :rolleyes:

I'm a republican, and my IQ is 146 and I have a Master's degree. Your statement is patently false.
With such a large IQ one would think that spotting sarcasm that obvious would be easy!

Just use your definition of it. Or if they have more in common with left ideologies than right ones.

Results of the poll or discussion do not mean much if those participating are injecting their own personal bias (Edit: "they're liberal/left-leaning because smart people are liberal/left-leaning" potentially means nothing more than "I want people to think I'm smart"; note how the discussion is quickly moving away from "campus politics" to "who's more stupid"). And again, there are any number of possible ways to define "right..."

Colleges in the U.S. are predominately liberal because the more intelligent that one becomes, the more liberal he or she votes.
I assume that by "intelligent" you mean "knowledgable" (you don't become more intelligent). If so, this is not true. Democrats attract the most educated and the least educated of voters. Republicans tend to attract voters who have a middle-of-the-road level of education.

I'm sorry to disagree with you people here. But the whole "all college students are liberals" doesn't really make sense. I live in East Grand Forks, MN, right next to Grand Forks, ND (a college town). I can tell you from experience that the people up around these parts (college students too) are more conservative than anyone else i've ever met.

There is a big debate about the schools logo. Many people, including the Native Americans of the area, want the logo changed. This debate about the logo being changed has brought about major racism and conservativism in this area, including Natives being called "Prarrie ******s" (won't put the word due to the possibility of being warned). This also includes posters that have stated "If we give up the name, then you give up your free schooling" (which only one known reservation has free schooling, and it is thousands of miles from here), "Go back to the Rez", and "Why don't you go drinkin some fire water", amoung other things.



So, in my personal oppinion, it doesn't matter on IF the person is in college, it depends on WHERE they go to college and how they were raised.



EDIT: For clarification, the schools logo is a Decapitated Native American Head and the schools athletic name is the "Fighting Sioux".

This makes me laugh. Wealth, education and intelligence can make a person more intellectual? I beg to differ. Intellectuality can lean both to Left and Right, and anywhere in between. There is this association of the bourgeois elite with the Left, but if anything I find this construction idiotic. Right-wing intellectuals are often no less capable than their Left-wing equivalents. The Left is by no means some haven for intellectuality. Either wing can espouse members of intellectual tendencies.

Wealth, intelligence and education can lead a person to lead either way. Any associations with Left and possessing the said traits is deplorable and small-minded. :rolleyes:

What a load of groundless bullshit. You know that college students tend to be more liberal because they are young and compassionate. It doesn't mean they're right, I'm just pissed off at these "lefty brainwashing conspiracy" theories.

Fine, I wouldn't call it a conspiracy... their bias simply shades their explanations sometimes. And yeah, idealism is one thing that contributes to the overall liberal bent of Average Joe College.


Not all these reasons are so obvious to me. Please explain them, especially the one about lawyers. I think you are so pro-Republican that everything you don't like must = Democrat. :rolleyes:

Why would businesses be more economically conservative? Rather than make a huge list, I'll simply summarize by saying that republicans generally tax businesses less, regulate less, and are less likely to side with unions.. which can be the bane of a business owner.

As for lawyers... defense lawyers, at least... repubs tend to be a bit more stodgy in terms of law enforcement and the court system (throw him behind bars and toss the key!). Repubs are also a bit less free with some civil liberties.

With such a large IQ one would think that spotting sarcasm that obvious would be easy!

Yeah, today has sucked and as always, I have one eye here and the other on the programs we use for work. I didn't spot the sarcasm, and even if I had, I was probably pissed-off about something work-related and would have reacted ogreishly anyway. hehe

I do not mean to be an ass, so please accept my apology.

are you buying season football or basketball tickets?

the football program is on the rise with Mangino and basketball at KAnsas, well I don't need to remind you of the status of the program.

probably but i have no idea how much they cost

education and intelligence can make a person more intellectual? I beg to differ.

Huh? Intelligence and education can't make a person more intellectual? :confused:

i hear that

the trend in my social science and journalism undergrad classes at UW was toward a USian democrat's point of view... but once i got into B school, those tables turned.
That's precisely what I was thinking when I read the topic title--which college inside the university system are you talking about? Nursing? Engineering? Business? Liberal Arts (that one'e easy :D )?

The only general rules I've discovered--and these are full of exceptions--are that Business schools tend to be more economically conservative (and corporate minded, which translates to "Republican" these days), and that Liberal Arts colleges are politically liberal, especially in the Fine Arts, which again, ought to be expected.

Personally, I don't see how a creative person can be anything but liberal-minded, since the nature of creativity is to push boundaries. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be politically liberal or politically active, though that does tend to happen--just that the idea of looking to the past seems, to me at least, to be the antithesis of creativity.

Eh, waiting for polls is for sissies. :p

It's true here - university students in general are a LOT more left than the average citizen.

From what I saw at a large midwestern University, I'm not so sure about this being the case in the US, to put it mildly...
Oh, it's definitely the case here...

probably but i have no idea how much they cost

take this for what it's worth (i have no idea):

probably football tickets are pretty cheap for KU students.... maybe something like $10 per game. My freshman year at Wisconsin -- the year after they won the 1994 Rose Bowl -- tickets were $6 apiece.


as for basketball tickets, well there are more games and KU is a big program... so the price might be at least as much per game and way more for all games, in terms of aggregate cost.

Huh? Intelligence and education can't make a person more intellectual? :confused:
Perhaps I should have clarified for it seems I didn't. Wealth, intelligence and education are by no means only catalysts for left-wing intellectualism. Now it is clear. It irritates me when people think that espousing right-wing views is incompatible with any of the aforementioned catalysts, as well as with intellectuality itself.

That's precisely what I was thinking when I read the topic title--which college inside the university system are you talking about? Nursing? Engineering? Business? Liberal Arts (that one'e easy :D )?

The only general rules I've discovered--and these are full of exceptions--are that Business schools tend to be more economically conservative (and corporate minded, which translates to "Republican" these days), and that Liberal Arts colleges are politically liberal, especially in the Fine Arts, which again, ought to be expected.

Personally, I don't see how a creative person can be anything but liberal-minded, since the nature of creativity is to push boundaries. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be politically liberal or politically active, though that does tend to happen--just that the idea of looking to the past seems, to me at least, to be the antithesis of creativity.

Right on. Great post.

*it's because of left-leaning professors mostly. 18-22 year olds are impressionable and programs such as poli sci and philosophy are full of liberal democrats trying to, rather than show the merits of different points of view, try to pawn their ideas off on said impressionable minds*

there is no reliable study showing that liberals are smarter than conservatives, or vice-versa


most rich people are republicans (for obvious reasons)

most business people (MBAs) are republicans (for obvious reasons)

most lawyers are democrats (for obvious reasons)



most people who made $50K or more annually (or some such figure) voted for Bush in 2004

more people with a bachelor's degree as their terminal degree voted for Bush

slightly more Master's and PhDs voted for Kerry
I would hardly hold out the american political parties to be the definition of liberal and conservative.

I've seen a number of studies done in Canada where they correlated higher level of education with more liberal votes.

Eh, waiting for polls is for sissies. :p

It's true here - university students in general are a LOT more left than the average citizen.

From what I saw at a large midwestern University, I'm not so sure about this being the case in the US, to put it mildly...
I know and worked alot with students in my hometown. The city of Groningen in the Netherlands. And I found most students to be more right. Mainly the male students. Although the female students also tend to be more right. Just not as strongly as the males.

I would hardly hold out the american political parties to be the definition of liberal and conservative.

I've seen a number of studies done in Canada where they correlated higher level of education with more liberal votes.

yah, i've since tempered that post. what i meant by "liberal" was US Democrat (IE, liberal in the American political context, knowing full well that both Repubs and Democrats are classical liberals in the larger sense)

The only reason their so left is
Most democrates are young and hip. Democrates want to have fun and live in a (Hippi World). Thee collage professors probaly want to be hip to,
Unlike repubilcans we tend to get of track sometimes but thats alright!

The only reason their so left is
Most democrates are young and hip. Democrates want to have fun and live in a (Hippi World). Thee collage professors probaly want to be hip to,
Unlike repubilcans we tend to get of track sometimes but thats alright!
Maybe you haven't seen the new right-wing intellectual, alternative chic developing as a response. The Left has no monopoly on being vogue (although, perhaps it does on being vague).

Colleges are obviously more left-leaning than the general population. Stastics show a correlation between education and being liberal.

The reason? Here are my guesses.

-Educated people are more likely to be progressive and go against the status quo.

-Educated people are more likely to tolerate other lifestyles and other points of view.

-Areas of the country that are conservative put less value on higher education and more value on staying within the community and staying within the family.

Of course, that's not to necessarily put more value on liberal ideas. Right-wing libertarian folks tend to be extremely educated.

Generally most left learning colleges tend to be the best U's in the area. Take for instance Emory Univerisity in Atlanta is one of the top rated U's in the U.S.(#20). If you want to go into more right wing institution, I would go to a Business U. May I suggest Devry?

Of course, that's not to necessarily put more value on liberal ideas. Right-wing libertarian folks tend to be extremely educated.
Indeed. Even other members of the Right can be extremely well educated and intellectual. It's just that people look at the loonies and seem to think that the Right is incapable of rational thought.

Indeed. Even other members of the Right can be extremely well educated and intellectual. It's just that people look at the loonies and seem to think that the Right is incapable of rational thought.

That has to due to that many right-wingers bitch about higher education institutes except the real elitist ones like Harvard, Yale, & Princeton. It has to to due with that many of this U's eccept people from diffrent backgrounds and can be flexible with their admissions. For Example this right-wing talk show host out of the ATL constantly bitiches about Emory U's so called liberal bias based on the fact that it has flexibility in classes and with admins. To theese people only Ivy league schools should exist to serve the highest elites of the nation. BTW....This guy is a big ass hippocrite. He has a law degree from Emory.

That has to due to that many right-wingers bitch about higher education institutes except the real elitist ones like Harvard, Yale, & Princeton. It has to to due with that many of this U's eccept people from diffrent backgrounds and can be flexible with their admissions. For Example this right-wing talk show host out of the ATL constantly bitiches about Emory U's so called liberal bias based on the fact that it has flexibility in classes and with admins. To theese people only Ivy league schools should exist to serve the highest elites of the nation. BTW....This guy is a big ass hippocrite. He has a law degree from Emory.
So in other words you are saying that they present these institutions as being biased to the Left, even if it's not so?

So in other words you are saying that they present these institutions as being biased to the Left, even if it's not so?

No, I am sure their are as many Conservative/Right Professors in the Biz,Econ and Law Departments and even in others. I think that it is Extreme right-wingers bitching due to the fact that many of these U's have adopted a open system to allow egalitarinism into the student body.

Kennesaw State U is a bastion of Conservative/Right bias.

No, I am sure their are as many Conservative/Right Professors in the Biz,Econ and Law Departments and even in others. I think that it is Extreme right-wingers bitching due to the fact that many of these U's have adopted a open system to allow egalitarinism into the student body.
If you mean this in terms of wealth, I see it as a good thing. If, however, it's in terms of actual performance and ability, and good unis are dropping their standards, then there is indeed cause for bitching.

I would argue that our entire society is liberal, and Universities simply reflect that. The motto of my University was:

"Understanding the Past,
Challenging the Present,
Shaping the Future"

Most research conducted at Universities is done for the purpose of progression in our world. Progress by its very nature is "liberal" in that it challenges conservatism.

On the other hand liberalism as it relates to 'socialist' tendencies, this is common for another reason. Most University students did not have to work particularly hard to support themselves or their families whilst growing up. In Middle Class Western culture child labour is discouraged. Kids become very well educated but lack a fundamental understanding of the value of work, the dollar, and a working day. Once they leave University and actually start working 40+ hour weeks, they realize that it is not just the working class that have to work hard to achieve their goals, everyone does.

This makes me laugh. Wealth, education and intelligence can make a person more intellectual? I beg to differ. Intellectuality can lean both to Left and Right, and anywhere in between. There is this association of the bourgeois elite with the Left, but if anything I find this construction idiotic. Right-wing intellectuals are often no less capable than their Left-wing equivalents. The Left is by no means some haven for intellectuality. Either wing can espouse members of intellectual tendencies.
I agree. I don't know about elsewhere, but come to Ireland and you'll find so many left-wing morons. It's sometimes embarrassing to agree with these people.

As for lawyers... defense lawyers, at least... repubs tend to be a bit more stodgy in terms of law enforcement and the court system (throw him behind bars and toss the key!). Repubs are also a bit less free with some civil liberties.
Surely very few Republicans think that criminals should have no right to get a lawyer?

I agree. I don't know about elsewhere, but come to Ireland and you'll find so many left-wing morons. It's sometimes embarrassing to agree with these people.
Sadly. And likewise you can find many brilliant right-wing intellectuals. The sad thing is you can also find redneck idiots who tarnish the meaning of the word.

If you mean this in terms of wealth, I see it as a good thing. If, however, it's in terms of actual performance and ability, and good unis are dropping their standards, then there is indeed cause for bitching.


You would think so......but Emory U. is a great institution. Their standards are extremly high. Average undergraduate SAT is about 1650.

www.emory.edu
I would argue that our entire society is liberal, and Universities simply reflect that. The motto of my University was:

"Understanding the Past,
Challenging the Present,
Shaping the Future"

Most research conducted at Universities is done for the purpose of progression in our world. Progress by its very nature is "liberal" in that it challenges conservatism.

On the other hand liberalism as it relates to 'socialist' tendencies, this is common for another reason. Most University students did not have to work particularly hard to support themselves or their families whilst growing up. In Middle Class Western culture child labour is discouraged. Kids become very well educated but lack a fundamental understanding of the value of work, the dollar, and a working day. Once they leave University and actually start working 40+ hour weeks, they realize that it is not just the working class that have to work hard to achieve their goals, everyone does.

U's have challenged the status quo since the begining of the middle ages. Problem right now with the american eduacation system is that they don't want people challanging the status quo.

I said "tend to be". I realize that not everyone who isn't in college is dumb, and not everyone who is in college is smart. I do realize that it would be elitist to think that the trend is true for everyone.

At least at the under-graduate level it has been my experiance that most college students aren't more intelligent than their peers but simply better at regurgitation and rote memorization. High schools in this country do not teach students to think, they train students to parrot facts. I cannot tell you how many times as an undergraduate I heard someone complain that the teacher was "cheating" by giving an essay exam rather than a multiple choice or fill in the blank exam. "How am I supposed to study for a test if I don't know exactly what is going to be asked and exactly what answer is expected" was a question I've heard all too often.

The sad reality is that while university students tend to be very good at first order thinking(remembering names, dates, places, etc) they are woefully inadequate at any kind of second order thought (synthesizing information, taking multiple primary sources and understanding what they mean, correctly identifying the cause of a given efect, etc). I believe that it is partially this problem that causes a great degree of the liberalism seen on most college campuses. To form a coherant politcal framework on one's own requires that the individual do an extensive amount of reasearch and decide which theories and mechanisms they find most persuasive. On the other hand, it is quite easy(and more instinctual for these kinds of minds) to simply memorize and regurgitate what someone perceived as more knowledgable says.

Sheep need a shepherd.

You would think so......but Emory U. is a great institution. Their standards are extremly high. Average undergraduate SAT is about 1650.

www.emory.edu
Which would indicate that any cause for bitching about it is pretentious. So you're probably right about that guy.

So, yeah, as a student at Ohio State, I don't really seem to see a particular leftward slant. Even in my political science courses. I've had a liberal free trader and realists as instructors, but no leftists. In fact, they all seem to have discarded leftist ideologies as inconsistent with the rest of the social sciences. That isn't to say that they're rabid republicans. The faculty does tend to lean towards the democrats, but it is by no means leftist.

I think it may be more due to the fact that during that age, you're still exploring who you are and where you fit, you're also challenging the rest of the world for your place in it (and honestly, being a college student is rather on the bottom the heap, no wonder many fight to raise the status of the poor when they've been eating ramen for months). Also, at that time, college is usually the first time to encounter very different ideals and idologies that you previously have. Conservatism seems to be more about preserving your place in the world against those who would remove or demand an equal share.

The high school I went to had, maybe, 10 Blacks in it. It DID have 5 Asians (I knew all of them) and about 75 Latino/Latina students. The rest of the 2,000 student body was white and very conservative.

My university was very mixed with very active minority groups and more liberal than my high school ever was.

It was a very new experiance and one that I rather liked.

So, yeah, as a student at Ohio State, I don't really seem to see a particular leftward slant. Even in my political science courses. I've had a liberal free trader and realists as instructors, but no leftists. In fact, they all seem to have discarded leftist ideologies as inconsistent with the rest of the social sciences. That isn't to say that they're rabid republicans. The faculty does tend to lean towards the democrats, but it is by no means leftist.
Thats what we tend to see here

Though once you get out of your freshman strech and into your major it could matter less what lean your profs have... Somehow politics never came up in my High Speed Network Design course

I'm a republican, and my IQ is 146 and I have a Master's degree. Your statement is patently false.


You know, a high IQ is like a large penis. It'll come in useful when its necessary, but if it was really as large as you say it is, you wouldn't feel the need to wave it around in public...

Colleges are obviously more left-leaning than the general population. Stastics show a correlation between education and being liberal.


Citation?

Well, I'm doing both a business and an economics degree, so I suppose by some people's logic that should make me a rabid right-winger, taught by more senior rabid right-wingers.

Not so.

All the people I have worked with have been objective and analytical in their analyses of problems. My business subjects have largely stepped around political issues anyway, simply calling for an analyses of government policies as part of a larger SWOT-Analysis.

And in Econ, we learn to deal with the real world, to investigate and make decisions neutrally, based on the numbers. Yes, some of my tutors have been leaning one way, others another. But none of them has made a big deal of it (except maybe one dude who was slightly Schumpeterian-Austrian in outlook, and who would occasionally drop a few hints as to the problems with traditional supply and demand models. Nobody minded, I found it interesting).

So my rule of thumb is: If they are scientists, they will stay neutral when they investigate, and they are required to cover the whole spectrum of issues and views, if only because the head of the school will check the exam papers later on for whether they cover everything.

Maybe you haven't seen the new right-wing intellectual, alternative chic developing as a response. The Left has no monopoly on being vogue (although, perhaps it does on being vague).

I think being vague comes with the territory when you start discussing your political views, of any kind. Not always, but there do seem to be a large number of people on any side that aren't terribly clear.

Exit strategy for Iraq, anyone? :rolleyes:

I think being vague comes with the territory when you start discussing your political views, of any kind. Not always, but there do seem to be a large number of people on any side that aren't terribly clear.

Exit strategy for Iraq, anyone? :rolleyes:
I know, sometimes it does pay to be vague. Not always though, as you said.

I've always been a fan of the "rough outline of an idea and let people do what they will with what you say" way of speech. I don't think that's always appropriate for getting things done, though. Unless you want to come off as something similar to a more confused and less slapstick member of the Three Stooges, I guess.

i'm so fucking sick of arrogent mother fucking liberals thinking they're smarter than conservatives. i'm in the center politically, but i always find myself pushed towards the right by my disgust with the arrogant left.

If you want to go into more right wing institution, I would go to a Business U. May I suggest Devry?
There are some pretty good right-wing schools out there such as Texas A&M, Southern Methodist University, Baylor, Wheaton, Hillsdale, Brigham Young University, Hampden Sydney College, Auburn, Clemson, Thomas Aquinas and Wofford are all good colleges according to the US news and they are the most right wing colleges in the nation. There are plenty of intelligent right-wingers, and the 3 smartest kids in my high school seemed to be on the right wing to some extent.

There are plenty of intelligent right-wingers, and the 3 smartest kids in my high school seemed to be on the right wing to some extent.
Most of my friends tend to be intelligent intellectuals, and of them the majority is right-wing. I don't quite get this prejudiced view that being right-wing is mutually exclusive of being an intelligent intellectual.

Most of my friends tend to be intelligent intellectuals, and of them the majority is right-wing. I don't quite get this prejudiced view that being right-wing is mutually exclusive of being an intelligent intellectual.
Exactly, the most liberal guy in my classes is an undisciplined moron(he is smart but has a horrible work ethic and is the joke of the class) and some of the smartest in my classes are right-wingers. I just don't think that intelligence is a quality that is exclusive to any political position.

Exactly, the most liberal guy in my classes is an undisciplined moron(he is smart but acts like a complete moron) and some of the smartest in my classes are right-wingers. I just don't think that intelligence is a quality that is exclusive to any political position.
Indeed. I am shocked by how many believe the contrary. I am right-wing mostly, as well as intellectual and intelligent. I find it arrogant and idiotic to presume that the terms are exclusive of each other.

I just don't think that intelligence is a quality that is exclusive to any political position.
Of course not. If anything, if people go and pursue a career of rational thought and actually use their intelligence, they tend to reject extremes and become a little more pragmatic.

Of course there are plenty of exceptions - but I usually get the idea that the most radical voices are usually those with their fingers in their ears.

Of course not. If anything, if people go and pursue a career of rational thought and actually use their intelligence, they tend to reject extremes and become a little more pragmatic.

Of course there are plenty of exceptions - but I usually get the idea that the most radical voices are usually those with their fingers in their ears.
Agreed; radicalism is usually the result of an unwillingness to listen. Or, in some cases, mere abject stupidity.

Exactly, the most liberal guy in my classes is an undisciplined moron(he is smart but has a horrible work ethic and is the joke of the class) and some of the smartest in my classes are right-wingers. I just don't think that intelligence is a quality that is exclusive to any political position.

Of course, there are also different types of intelligence. I know a very smart computer scientist who got his Ph.D. from the top Romanian university, yet he honestly believes we should nuke the entire Middle East. So scoring well on SATs and the like does not necessarily mean you make the right choices politically.

The smarter one is and the more one learns about the world, the more likely one is to be liberal. did you know something like 13 of 15 states in the states with an average IQ of over 100, voted democrat last election.

Indeed. I am shocked by how many believe the contrary. I am right-wing mostly, as well as intellectual and intelligent. I find it arrogant and idiotic to presume that the terms are exclusive of each other.
It is pretty stupid. There have been many many intelligent right wingers and they can be seen today as well. Dr Condoleezza Rice(not sure if the name is right) has a doctorate obviously and was a member of the Stanford faculty, and she finished her bachelors degree when she was 19, which is much younger than average. Henry Kissinger was a republican and he is considered to be pretty smart as well, he graduated from Harvard summa cum laude and his doctoral thesis was so long that there is now a rule limiting thesis length. Heck, I am certain that there are other really smart conservatives out there too. Maybe many of them choose not to get doctorates out of the impracticality of such an achievement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissinger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleeza_Rice

Of course, there are also different types of intelligence. I know a very smart computer scientist who got his Ph.D. from the top Romanian university, yet he honestly believes we should nuke the entire Middle East. So scoring well on SATs and the like does not necessarily mean you make the right choices politically.
I did not say that high SAT scores meant that people made the right political choices. I only was attacking the idea that right wingers must be idiots. There are plenty of intelligent right-wingers in the world and also plenty of stupid left-wingers, after all, there are always the people that are on the left wing because they can't understand an economy and there are people on the right wing who cannot understand that different people have different points of view.

It is pretty stupid. There have been many many intelligent right wingers and they can be seen today as well. Dr Condoleezza Rice(not sure if the name is right) has a doctorate obviously and was a member of the Stanford faculty, and she finished her bachelors degree when she was 19, which is much younger than average. Henry Kissinger was a republican and he is considered to be pretty smart as well, he graduated from Harvard summa cum laude and his doctoral thesis was so long that there is now a rule limiting thesis length. Heck, I am certain that there are other really smart conservatives out there too. Maybe many of them choose not to get doctorates out of the impracticality of such an achievement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissinger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleeza_Rice
There are no doubt many intellectual powerhouses out there bearing the right-wing banner. As you said, political affiliation has nothing to do with intelligence and intellect.

The smarter one is and the more one learns about the world, the more likely one is to be liberal. did you know something like 13 of 15 states in the states with an average IQ of over 100, voted democrat last election.
Maybe out of frustration with Bush?

I did not say that high SAT scores meant that people made the right political choices.

I wasn't trying to contradict you. I was just giving an example of what you were saying (kind of).

The smarter one is and the more one learns about the world, the more likely one is to be liberal. did you know something like 13 of 15 states in the states with an average IQ of over 100, voted democrat last election.

cash money says this is a bullshit claim. what's your source for that information?

I wasn't trying to contradict you. I was just giving an example of what you were saying (kind of).
Sorry, I guess I just sort of construed this as an attack. Meh, that's the internet for ya. Right, there are always people that are smart but have no clue on good policies, nobody said that KKK members were necessarily stupid or anything of that nature but I sure as heck would not want to see what a KKK member would want in our government.

At least at the under-graduate level it has been my experiance that most college students aren't more intelligent than their peers but simply better at regurgitation and rote memorization. High schools in this country do not teach students to think, they train students to parrot facts. And facts = a kind of knowledge. This doesn't mean that knowledge = intelligence.

I cannot tell you how many times as an undergraduate I heard someone complain that the teacher was "cheating" by giving an essay exam rather than a multiple choice or fill in the blank exam. "How am I supposed to study for a test if I don't know exactly what is going to be asked and exactly what answer is expected" was a question I've heard all too often.really? How creepy.

The sad reality is that while university students tend to be very good at first order thinking(remembering names, dates, places, etc) they are woefully inadequate at any kind of second order thought (synthesizing information, taking multiple primary sources and understanding what they mean, correctly identifying the cause of a given efect, etc). I believe that it is partially this problem that causes a great degree of the liberalism seen on most college campuses. To form a coherant politcal framework on one's own requires that the individual do an extensive amount of reasearch and decide which theories and mechanisms they find most persuasive. On the other hand, it is quite easy(and more instinctual for these kinds of minds) to simply memorize and regurgitate what someone perceived as more knowledgable says.

Sheep need a shepherd.On the surface I could agree with you, but this doesn't explain why people tend to become more centrist as they get older. They are for the most part no longer getting first order facts, but also for the most part don't do research to figure out what theories are right for them.

I honestly expected this to turn into a flamer's paradise, but most posters have thankfully kept it civil.

Faith in humanity +
Respect for forumites +

On the surface I could agree with you, but this doesn't explain why people tend to become more centrist as they get older. They are for the most part no longer getting first order facts, but also for the most part don't do research to figure out what theories are right for them.

Pragmatism? As people get older they have to think more about their opinions. I know quite a few people who became more fiscaly conservative when they first began to live on their own and think about a budget, and I've known a lot of socialists who suddenly start to question Marx when they see how much of their paycheck goes to taxes (I know that in Chicago you can kiss away close to 50% after you take into account state and federal income tax, social security/medicare tax, sales tax, taxes on gasoline, taxes associated with owning a vehicle, etc) and how few services are actually provided with that money. Being out in the world forces people to experiance real life as opposed to academic theory. The university is a sheltered enviornment.

Pragmatism? As people get older they have to think more about their opinions. I know quite a few people who became more fiscaly conservative when they first began to live on their own and think about a budget, and I've known a lot of socialists who suddenly start to question Marx when they see how much of their paycheck goes to taxes (I know that in Chicago you can kiss away close to 50% after you take into account state and federal income tax, social security/medicare tax, sales tax, taxes on gasoline, taxes associated with owning a vehicle, etc) and how few services are actually provided with that money. Being out in the world forces people to experiance real life as opposed to academic theory. The university is a sheltered enviornment.
Sheltered how? Not only do I have to earn house payments car payments taxes fuel and all that other stuff but I also have to cough up 10-15 grand for school a year

I know not all are like me but at my collage there is a LARGE percent (though we are full of more non traditional students then the average collage)

Pragmatism? As people get older they have to think more about their opinions. I know quite a few people who became more fiscaly conservative when they first began to live on their own and think about a budget, and I've known a lot of socialists who suddenly start to question Marx when they see how much of their paycheck goes to taxes (I know that in Chicago you can kiss away close to 50% after you take into account state and federal income tax, social security/medicare tax, sales tax, taxes on gasoline, taxes associated with owning a vehicle, etc) and how few services are actually provided with that money. Being out in the world forces people to experiance real life as opposed to academic theory. The university is a sheltered enviornment.I disagree. Once people are out of college, they don't experience the real world, they experience their own world, which is quite different. There is knowledge to be gained from experience, however most of the people who are outside of college are limited to their own experiences, which limits the knowledge that can be gained from comparing one's own experiences to another person's.

Sheltered how? Not only do I have to earn house payments car payments taxes fuel and all that other stuff but I also have to cough up 10-15 grand for school a year

I know not all are like me but at my collage there is a LARGE percent (though we are full of more non traditional students then the average collage)


I would say that you are in the minority as far as most university students go. Every non-community college I have visited is attended primarily by students who are either living of their parent's dime, taking loans, living off scholarships, or working a minimum number of hours. These are not people who are out in the world, they are children on an extended vacation. I have encountered very few truely independent university students.

I disagree. Once people are out of college, they don't experience the real world, they experience their own world, which is quite different. There is knowledge to be gained from experience, however most of the people who are outside of college are limited to their own experiences, which limits the knowledge that can be gained from comparing one's own experiences to another person's.

The experiance of living on ones own and supporting a family is a fairly widespread thing. Having to budget your money, come up with rent, save for a home, deal with the realities of a daily nine to five, cook dinner, shop for groceries, these are the things that create the base experiance of our society. Yes, individuals will have different experiances and interests, but the cast majority of society will have more in common than not.

The experiance of living on ones own and supporting a family is a fairly widespread thing. Having to budget your money, come up with rent, save for a home, deal with the realities of a daily nine to five, cook dinner, shop for groceries, these are the things that create the base experiance of our society. Yes, individuals will have different experiances and interests, but the cast majority of society will have more in common than not.That's true, but I didn't mean that. In college, you have to be trying to avoid opinions other than your own in order to not hear any. After college, you have to actively seek out opinions other than your own.

Winston Churchill once said that anyone under thirty who's not a liberal has no heart, anyone over thirty who's not a conservative has no brains.

Winston Churchill once said that anyone under thirty who's not a liberal has no heart, anyone over thirty who's not a conservative has no brains.

So you can either have a heart or brains, but not both? :(

So you can either have a heart or brains, but not both? :(
Of course. That's why the scarecrow and the tin man are seperate entities.