NationStates Jolt Archive

Tell me people what is the thoughts on pupil teacher relations?

i no someone who had a relation with a sort of teacher and nothing bad came about from it but then there are some people who are completly against the idea of it.

Personally i think its ok as long as people dont do it in the school/college and they dont mess each other up!

What do you think?

I bet there are some cases where it works out fine, but it seems irresponsible

even if no one knows about it and they do like each other?

and what if the pupil isnt taught by the teacher?

It would be ok to me if it was a teacher from a school other than the one the student attended. Possibly tolerable if the teacher didn't teach the student.

well aside from the issue of the age of consent it presents a couple of ethical problems. first is the power dynamic, the teacher is generally perceived as an authority figure they have the ability to use their position to manipulate or even force the student into the relationship or control the nature of the relationship once it begins, thus rendering it non consentual on some level. the other obvious problem is that it creates an uneven dynamic between the other students in the class, where the sexual relationship creates a biased dynamic that would be difficult to overcome. it is generally considered the peek of unprofessionalness for such are relationship to occur and is almost always a termination offense. i believe that this is a wise policy.

ok but think about it - if there are no teacher bonds between the two, like he is employed by the school but he is not a teacher, a cleaner or technician for example, is that ok? or does that follow your same rules??

Don't change this to suddenly include non-teachers. In the case of teacher-student...there should only be a professional relationship. It's a breach of ethics (and often law) to engage in a physical relationship with a student. There is a power inequity there, and as a teacher...it's just ewww.

ok but think about it - if there are no teacher bonds between the two, like he is employed by the school but he is not a teacher, a cleaner or technician for example, is that ok? or does that follow your same rules??


Are you schtooping the gym coach?

Don't change this to suddenly include non-teachers. In the case of teacher-student...there should only be a professional relationship. It's a breach of ethics (and often law) to engage in a physical relationship with a student. There is a power inequity there, and as a teacher...it's just ewww.
yeah, its not the same dynamic if you are in college and date someone who works in the college book store. the teacher student relationship is different, it is fundimentally corrupted even if the student is of age.

Are you talking strictly about a student and a teacher, or about a student of a teacher? It seems to me that the power dynamic goes away if I have a relationship with someone whom I'm not attending class, but that may be a misconstrual of the argument.

Tell me people what is the thoughts on pupil teacher relations?

i no someone who had a relation with a sort of teacher and nothing bad came about from it but then there are some people who are completly against the idea of it.

Personally i think its ok as long as people dont do it in the school/college and they dont mess each other up!

What do you think?
I don't believe a teacher should ever engage in a relationship with one of their students. That creates a conflict of interest, as well as a lousy power imbalance. If someone who happens to be a teacher wants to date someone who happens to be a student then there's no real problem, but dating your own student is as lousy an idea as dating your own employee.

And, of course, all this is assuming that both parties are consenting adults. If any adult, teacher or otherwise, sleeps with a minor then they are a rapist and should be regarded as such.

Are you schtooping the gym coach?


no im not!

i just think that if anyone who likes someone whether they are taught by them or not they should go for it! and if they happen to teach them aslong as their grades dont change, which could be a reason for it happening then it should be perfectly ok surely??

no im not!

i just think that if anyone who likes someone whether they are taught by them or not they should go for it! and if they happen to teach them aslong as their grades dont change, which could be a reason for it happening then it should be perfectly ok surely??

So, you are only trying to schtoop the gym coach.

And no, a realtionship in which one person has direct authority over the other should never become romantic, for the reasons stated.

So, you are only trying to schtoop the gym coach.

And no, a realtionship in which one person has direct authority over the other should never become romantic, for the reasons stated.


No im not!! lol

but surely if things are left to fate and all that then if two people like each other that much then its different!??

No im not!! lol

but surely if things are left to fate and all that then if two people like each other that much then its different!??

No, its not different at all. A teacher/student realtionship cannot turn romantic. It doesn't matter if the "sorta like each other" , "like-like each other", or "reeeeaaaaalllllyyyyyy like each other" IT IS WRONG!

do whatever you need to do to pass the class :D

If the teacher isn't currently teaching the student then there's no reason not to assuming they're both of age to consent.

do whatever you need to do to pass the class :D

Im liking it!!!

in response to the other one, is it wrong if you are seeing someone who works at the school u are at but you were there first?? i have a friend like that - coz the guy used to go to the school he went there to work and she is still there, they are both adults but does that apply to the theories that you have set up??

If the teacher isn't currently teaching the student then there's no reason not to assuming they're both of age to consent.

The vast majority of people who carry the title "student" are under the age of 18.

Im liking it!!!

in response to the other one, is it wrong if you are seeing someone who works at the school u are at but you were there first?? i have a friend like that - coz the guy used to go to the school he went there to work and she is still there, they are both adults but does that apply to the theories that you have set up??


If he is a teacher and she is a student at the same school, it is unethical.

The vast majority of people who carry the title "student" are under the age of 18.

there are loads of people over 18 who are classed as "students"!!!!!

The vast majority of people who carry the title "student" are under the age of 18.
I'm a student and I'm over 18. I'm thinking of college/university students more than elementary/secondary school students. And believe me, there are a lot of people over the age of 18 who are students.

when i started this topic i was refering to students who are over 18 so its not like they are doing anything wrong!

It's about principles :D, Ever heard of a doctor operating on his/her love one or a jail gaurd falling in love of a criminal she/he supposed to gaurd, it's supposed to be odd, but at the same time, the chances of it happening are great.

it can happen and it does happen. Apparently at my school there was once one of the teachers who fell in love with his pupil and they ended up getting married! it can work out and it does happen!

I'm a student and I'm over 18. I'm thinking of college/university students more than elementary/secondary school students. And believe me, there are a lot of people over the age of 18 who are students.


Ys, I went through college, but still the vast majority (see the word majority?) of "students" are under 18.

It oesn't matter the age, its freakin wrong. The age thing just makes it more wrong and illegal.

it can happen and it does happen. Apparently at my school there was once one of the teachers who fell in love with his pupil and they ended up getting married! it can work out and it does happen!

The fact that you are unaware of any of their problems does not make it ethical.

The fact that you are unaware of any of their problems does not make it ethical.

i am not unaware of any of the problems! i have some first hand experience to be completly honest!

Ys, I went through college, but still the vast majority (see the word majority?) of "students" are under 18.

It oesn't matter the age, its freakin wrong. The age thing just makes it more wrong and illegal.
How is it wrong if I, as a physics student who never takes history classes starts to date a history prof?
Or hell, if I take a class with a prof and then after the class is over, begin to see him romantically?

How is it wrong if I, as a physics student who never takes history classes starts to date a history prof?
Or hell, if I take a class with a prof and then after the class is over, begin to see him romantically?

Any professor at your school is an authority figure.

Any professor at your school is an authority figure.
Not my authority figure if I'm not taking a class with them or looking for a letter of reccomendation from them.

Not my authority figure if I'm not taking a class with them or looking for a letter of reccomendation from them.

Yes he is. He is faculty and has power over you.

If you graduate or leave the school for some other reason and want to date him, thats fine, but as long as he is a member of the faculty of the school you are studying at, you two cannot have a relationship.

Yes he is. He is faculty and has power over you.

If you graduate or leave the school for some other reason and want to date him, thats fine, but as long as he is a member of the faculty of the school you are studying at, you two cannot have a relationship.
No, he really doesn't have power over me.

Yes he is. He is faculty and has power over you.

If you graduate or leave the school for some other reason and want to date him, thats fine, but as long as he is a member of the faculty of the school you are studying at, you two cannot have a relationship.


but if he doesnt have power over you then why cant you have a relationship??

if you are in the school as a student and he doesnt teach you but is still employed by the school then he doesnt have the power over you as he is not your personal teacher!

but if he doesnt have power over you then why cant you have a relationship??

if you are in the school as a student and he doesnt teach you but is still employed by the school then he doesnt have the power over you as he is not your personal teacher!
Exactly!

No, he really doesn't have power over me.

Yes, he does. It really doesn't matter what you think, or feel, or realize. This is not up for debate or an opinion. Its a fact, faculty members have power over students. What if you have friends in his class? There is a conflict of interest.

Its like someone in sales messing around with the VP of Marketing. It doesn't matter they are in different departments, he is a VP.

but if he doesnt have power over you then why cant you have a relationship??

if you are in the school as a student and he doesnt teach you but is still employed by the school then he doesnt have the power over you as he is not your personal teacher!


1) Please don't tell me you are an English major.

2) Teachers are authority figures. Its very well defined.

3) STOP SCHTOOPING THE GYM COACH!

Yes, he does. It really doesn't matter what you think, or feel, or realize. This is not up for debate or an opinion. Its a fact, faculty members have power over students. What if you have friends in his class? There is a conflict of interest.

Its like someone in sales messing around with the VP of Marketing. It doesn't matter they are in different departments, he is a VP.
Why would a relationship that I would have with a prof affect how my friends do in his class in any way shape or form, exactly? Hell, I could not be a student and have friends who are students in his class, what makes that situation any different?

Does this thing extend to teaching assistants too? Am I not allowed to date another student or a grad student on the off chance that one of the people they have in tutorial is a good friend of mine? I think your reasoning is stupid and lacking.

2) Teachers are authority figures. Its very well defined.
Teachers are authority figures to the students they teach, not to society as a whole.

1) Please don't tell me you are an English major.

2) Teachers are authority figures. Its very well defined.

3) STOP SCHTOOPING THE GYM COACH!


1. Why would you think that i am an English Major?
2. Teachers are authoritive but when they are not your teacher there is a difference in authority
3. Im not schtooping the gym coach!!!

No, they are authority figures in the schools they teach.

TAs are a different matter since they are not a profession and they are a lot more abundant than professors. This means its alot easier to avoid the scenarios you mentioned.

Professors, however, are harder to avoid and have a lot of weight at their schools.

I know you find the music/english professor really hot. All the underclassmen girls did when I was in college. But, you can't have him. Or atleast, you shouldn't. Its way too explosive a situation to chance.

If you really need to settle the creepy jones you have for a daddy figure, go after the guest speakers the bussiness school brings in. They will be older than you, successful and rich. And best of all, they won't be faculty.

No, they are authority figures in the schools they teach.

TAs are a different matter since they are not a profession and they are a lot more abundant than professors. This means its alot easier to avoid the scenarios you mentioned.

Professors, however, are harder to avoid and have a lot of weight at their schools.

I know you find the music/english professor really hot. All the underclassmen girls did when I was in college. But, you can't have him. Or atleast, you shouldn't. Its way too explosive a situation to chance.

If you really need to settle the creepy jones you have for a daddy figure, go after the guest speakers the bussiness school brings in. They will be older than you, successful and rich. And best of all, they won't be faculty.

ok let me put this forward - I AM NOT CRUSHING ON ANY OF THE STAFF

and even if i was the only ones that i wud even look at wud be the younger ones. but still if someone likes there teacher that much then its going to happen if the teacher likes them too!

No, because both of them should be adult human beings capable of controling themselves.

And just how young do you think most professors are?

ok so maybe i am referring to a couple of the people that i work with knowing how young they are - im not on about the people who have been working at an istitution for 20 years or so, im meaning the younger teachers who are in their late 20's.

You aren't going to run into too many college professors in their late 20s.

Some, sure, but it takes a long time to get that PhD.

Tell me people what is the thoughts on pupil teacher relations?

i no someone who had a relation with a sort of teacher and nothing bad came about from it but then there are some people who are completly against the idea of it.

Personally i think its ok as long as people dont do it in the school/college and they dont mess each other up!

What do you think?
It's detrimental to the education of at least the student involved if not other students. It should not be allowed.

Students should be comfortable around teachers and teachers should be comfortable around students.

Therefore, everyone should be on first-name terms and just generally be willing to treat each other like they treat a friend.

If a student is of age (18+), then having a more intimate relationship with a teacher should not be a problem. The issue arises though, that the teacher will be baised towards said student.

If a student is 17-, then there is a problem with getting intimate. Especially in secondary school. Friendly terms - yes, intimate - no.

You aren't going to run into too many college professors in their late 20s.

Some, sure, but it takes a long time to get that PhD.

i am not on about college professors, how about general teachers at sixth form colleges??

Students should be comfortable around teachers and teachers should be comfortable around students.

Therefore, everyone should be on first-name terms and just generally be willing to treat each other like they treat a friend.

If a student is of age (18+), then having a more intimate relationship with a teacher should not be a problem. The issue arises though, that the teacher will be baised towards said student.

If a student is 17-, then there is a problem with getting intimate. Especially in secondary school. Friendly terms - yes, intimate - no.

No, they are not friends, they are teacher and student. Completly different relationship.

While I don't find the firt name basis thing morally or ethically wrong, I found it uncomfortable and now I see it as a step in the wrong direction.

No, they are not friends, they are teacher and student. Completly different relationship.

While I don't find the firt name basis thing morally or ethically wrong, I found it uncomfortable and now I see it as a step in the wrong direction.

I know all my danish teachers by their first names. I call them by their first.

I know all my english teachers by their first names. I call them by their last.

I know all my french teachers only be their last names. I only call them by their last.

Can you guess which subjects I did better in? Can you guess which subjects I was more motivated in?

A teacher is a person, a student is a person. People in the same environment have to be able to work together. The most effective relationship is one where the teacher and student are friends. It's one of mutual respect: You respect them and they respect you.

You still have to realize they are teachers and they still have to realize that you're a student, but both have to realize that they are not enemies: they are friends, where the teacher is providing the student with knowledge and the student is studying, thus providing the teacher with a job.

Also, you will naturally have a greater chance of falling in love with the people that you work with. A teacher works a lot with other teachers and students and are most likely to fall in love with them (if they haven't already.)

hang on they can be friends tho - i was very friendly with a lot of my teachers and i classed them as friends! i even had one call me a friend! ok so the relationship is different but it can also be very close!

hang on they can be friends tho - i was very friendly with a lot of my teachers and i classed them as friends! i even had one call me a friend! ok so the relationship is different but it can also be very close!
The problem with being a friend to my students is that sometimes I have to also take those same students to task. I have a few students I am very fond of, I like them a lot. A few of them, however, are not exactly my best students (far from it). I cannot have a friendship with them because the next class period I may have to ride heard on them to get them to do the asignment. I cannot allow my personal feelings to interfear with that.

Sorry, I am their teacher, I can never be their friend until after they leave my school.

As for romantic relationships between adult students and teachers... it's a very thin line to walk. The teacher may not be teaching the student directly, but they probably know the teacher who is. It is really hard to not try to use your influance to help your loved one. My answer is that it is possible, but it has so many pitfalls that it might not be worth it.

Or as my professor told me when this was brought up in my education coursework, "Unless this is true love of the type the poets write about, don't."

*Walks away whistling "Don't Stand So Close to Me"*

Or as my professor told me when this was brought up in my education coursework, "Unless this is true love of the type the poets write about, don't."



ok so this is the point that i have tried to say - if it is true love then can it not happen??

ok so this is the point that i have tried to say - if it is true love then can it not happen??

If you can't have an open relationship, which a techer and student can't, then it can't become true love.

That is someting that takes time and energy.

You aren't going to run into too many college professors in their late 20s.

Some, sure, but it takes a long time to get that PhD.

You don't have to have a PhD in order to be hired on as staff. You can become an associate professor with as little as a masters. You can get your masters at age 24, if you're really studious. A college professor will regularly have students in their class in the 18-22 age range. So, if I'm Professor Billings, age 24, in the history department, and I go out to a club and meet Suzie, age 21, biochemistry major. Why shouldn't I date her again? Because I have absolutely no ability to affect her position at the university as long as she's not taking one of my classes or a class in my department.

You don't have to have a PhD in order to be hired on as staff. You can become an associate professor with as little as a masters. You can get your masters at age 24, if you're really studious. A college professor will regularly have students in their class in the 18-22 age range. So, if I'm Professor Billings, age 24, in the history department, and I go out to a club and meet Suzie, age 21, biochemistry major. Why shouldn't I date her again? Because I have absolutely no ability to affect her position at the university as long as she's not taking one of my classes or a class in my department.

You need a PhD and regularly published in a recognized periodical or book to be a professor.

What you are refering to is a Teaching Assistant.

And again, if you are a authority figure in the school (which the entire faculty is) YOU CANNOT DATE A STUDENT! Even if they are not in your class, you have power over them.

and that student will go through your department (thats why universities have core curriculums).

Why is it so difficult for some of you to understand? And why do you seemed intent on pushing a situation that just screams "BAD IDEA"?

ok so this is the point that i have tried to say - if it is true love then can it not happen??
It can happen, but as I noted, it would be very difficult to do so. It is better for it not to happen in the first place, how about that?

You need a PhD and regularly published in a recognized periodical or book to be a professor.
No you don't. Or rather, it depends a great deal upon the college/university in question. Universities tend to hold out for the Ph.D., but you can get published at any time regardless of degree and some colleges will, and have, hired professors with just a masters.

You need a PhD and regularly published in a recognized periodical or book to be a professor.

What you are refering to is a Teaching Assistant.

And again, if you are a authority figure in the school (which the entire faculty is) YOU CANNOT DATE A STUDENT! Even if they are not in your class, you have power over them.

and that student will go through your department (thats why universities have core curriculums).

Why is it so difficult for some of you to understand? And why do you seemed intent on pushing a situation that just screams "BAD IDEA"?

No, what I am referring to is a Associate Professor. A teaching assistant is a grad student working on his/her masters degree. An associate professor, or the corresponding title at whatever universities you're familiar with, is the lowest level of professor. I think they might not even be able to call themselves professor. They might have to put "Associate Professor" on their name.

And there is nothing wrong with it as long as there is no conflict of interest. A 21 year old biochem major most likely took her one history gen ed requirement three years ago.

What you seem to have difficulty understanding is that just because you think it's bad and wrong doesn't make it so. If both individuals are mature and responsible enough to handle the dynamic of their relationship, and as long as it never becomes a direct conflict of interest, there is nothing inherently wrong with a teacher dating a student (of legal age).

No you don't. Or rather, it depends a great deal upon the college/university in question. Universities tend to hold out for the Ph.D., but you can get published at any time regardless of degree and some colleges will, and have, hired professors with just a masters.


That isn't a professor. Anyone who has not fulfilled the criteria and refers to him or herself as a professor is a fraud and certainly not someone you should be starting a realtionship with anyway.

That isn't a professor. Anyone who has not fulfilled the criteria and refers to him or herself as a professor is a fraud and certainly not someone you should be starting a realtionship with anyway.

Get this through your head. You are wrong. You can be a professor without having your doctorate. You can be a professor without having your doctorate. Need I repeat myself again?

Pay attention to the bold, kid.

Main positions
Assistant professor: the entry-level position, for which one usually needs a Ph.D. or other doctorate, sometimes only a masters degree, often a terminal master's, (at some schools/colleges and exceptions* such as Clinical Professorship). In some areas, such as the natural sciences, it is uncommon to grant assistant professor positions to recently graduated Ph.D.s, and nearly all assistant professors will have completed some time as Postdoctoral fellows. The position is generally not tenured, although in most institutions, the term is used for "tenure-track" positions; that is, the candidate can become tenured after a probationary period – anywhere from 3 to 7 years. Rates for achieving tenure vary, depending on the institutions and areas of study; in most places about 50% of assistant professors are tenured and promoted to associate professors after the 6th year; however, this number can be as low as 10% in natural sciences departments of top-10 universities such as Princeton, or over 70% in non-PhD granting schools. In unusual circumstances it is possible to receive tenure but to remain as an assistant professor, typically when tenure is awarded early.

Associate professor: the mid-level position, usually awarded (in the humanities and social sciences) after the "second book" — although the requirements vary considerably between institutions and departments. Generally upon obtaining tenure, one is also promoted to associate professor. In relatively rare circumstances, a person may be hired at the associate professor level without tenure. Typically this is done as a financial inducement to attract someone from outside the institution, but who might not yet meet all the qualifications for tenure. If awarded to a non-tenured person, the position is almost always tenure-track with an expectation that the person will soon qualify for tenure.

(Full) professor: the senior position. In a traditional school this is always tenured. However, this may not be the case in a for-profit private institution. The absence of a mandatory retirement age contributes to "graying" of this occupation. The median age of American full professors is currently around 55 years. Very few people attain this position before the age of 40. This position is well paid — the annual salary of full professors averages around $90,000, although less so at non-doctoral institutions, and more so at private doctoral institutions (not including side income from grants and consulting, which can be substantial in some fields). Full professors earn on average about 70% more than assistant professors in the same institution. However, particularly in scientific and technical fields, this is still considerably less than salaries of those with comparable training and experience working in industry positions.

I was mistaken. It's called assistant professor.

That isn't a professor. Anyone who has not fulfilled the criteria and refers to him or herself as a professor is a fraud and certainly not someone you should be starting a realtionship with anyway.
Hate to tell you this, but the academic rankings are set by the schools and/or the higher education system they are a part of. Different schools call people different things.

My journalism professor was a full professor who not only retired with tenure, but also was given Professor Emertis status only held an MA.

Nice guy, I enjoyed his class a lot.

What you seem to have difficulty understanding is that just because you think it's bad and wrong doesn't make it so. If both individuals are mature and responsible enough to handle the dynamic of their relationship, and as long as it never becomes a direct conflict of interest, there is nothing inherently wrong with a teacher dating a student (of legal age).

No, you don't understand. As I have already said, this is not about opinion, taste, or personal morality. The teaching profession has specific ethics and is very clear about relationships with students.

i think one of my teachers wants me, to be totally honest, the idea isn't THAT unappealing, aside from the fact that i'm a minor and all those awkward issues that pop up. but, i can always fantasize.