NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: This is where it always leads. This is where it lead during the "protests" during the Vietnam war. Neither I nor thousands of other veterans will tolerate this. If you know any "protestors," you can do them a great favor by telling them in no uncertain terms that this sort of behavior could easily result in a considerably shortened life-span.


Police to protect vandalized home of fallen soldier


Associated Press
KOKOMO, Ind. — Police posted an around-the-clock security watch at the home of an Indiana soldier killed last week in Iraq after it was vandalized and his family received disturbing phone calls.

The home of Sgt. Rickey Jones was egged Saturday, three days after Jones’ family learned the 21-year-old and three other soldiers had been killed by a roadside bomb north of Baghdad. His family also received phone calls in which the caller said: “I’m glad your son is dead.”

The actions drew the attention of an Indiana congressman, Rep. Steve Buyer, a Republican who also chairs the House Veterans’ Affairs Committee.

“It is outrageous, appalling and indecent for an American citizen to commit crimes and perversions against a family grieving at the loss of their son,” Buyer said.

On Thursday, he spoke on the House floor asking his fellow lawmakers to stand and observe a moment of silence “to condemn these despicable acts.”

“A great virtue of the American character is our compassion. It is how we care for each other in good times and in difficult times,” he said. “It is our compassion and human decency that represents the very best of our nation.”

You know I don't support your stance on war, or on glorifying soldiers...but no one who has lost a relative deserves having someone call and say, "yeah, I'm glad so and so is dead". It makes me cringe.

What is the point? That some protesters are idiots? And what is the connection with Vietnam?
This is just you saying "two wrongs make a right".

That's fucking disgusting. I hope "counter-protesters" get together and start handing out beat downs to these cowardly punks. Oh, and this is coming from someone who was totally dead set against the Iraq war.

Well, whoever did these acts is a disgusting and horrible person with no compassion whatsoever. However, there seems to be no indication that the person or people who did this have anything to do with people who are protesting the war. It could just as easily be some sick, twisted fuck who had a personal grudge against the fallen soldier or his family.

Eutrusca, your condemnation of all protestors due to the acts of one person who may not even be a protestor is a generalisation. When you add that to the veiled threat in your OP, I am reminded of the police who use violence against peoplewho are merely exercising their legal rights. It is wrong, and you should know better.

What is the point? That some protesters are idiots? And what is the connection with Vietnam?
This is just you saying "two wrongs make a right".
The connection to Vietnam is that the same stuff was being done to the families of fallen soldiers in that war. Imagine what kind of self-righteous shithead it takes to call up a grieving family and gloat over their child's death. Imagine it happening to your family. It's simply unacceptable behavior.

That's fucking disgusting. I hope "counter-protesters" get together and start handing out beat downs to these cowardly punks. Oh, and this is coming from someone who was totally dead set against the Iraq war.

Where are those bikers when ya need em?

I have no particular love for the Iraq War or those who served there - but this is disgusting and immoral. I don't advocate violence, but I can easily understand where Eutrusca is coming from. It wouldn't be right, but more than understandable. Oh, I believe this sort of thing happened to Vietnam veterans as well - I read up a little on the subject a while ago.

What is the point? That some protesters are idiots? And what is the connection with Vietnam?
This is just you saying "two wrongs make a right".
I think Eutrusca had his wires crossed in Vietnam, so let's just ignore all of his posts that deal with "logical" conclusions.

The connection to Vietnam is that the same stuff was being done to the families of fallen soldiers in that war. Imagine what kind of self-righteous shithead it takes to call up a grieving family and gloat over their child's death. Imagine it happening to your family. It's simply unacceptable behavior.
I don't encorage that behaviour, but it doesn't really count as a "hate crime". I would classify it as insensitivity.
About the melodrama of the subject, I got it from the beginning. You needen't illustrate it further. What I was in fact asking was how could anyone establish a general context or a programme to "explain" such occurencies? It would either be sophistry or insanity.

Wheres the hatecrime?

The home of Sgt. Rickey Jones was egged Saturday

*shrug* No reason to get all riled up. After all, it's only eggs.

Can't get all riled up over "just a cartoon", but ...


I hope "counter-protesters" get together and start handing out beat downs to these cowardly punks.

Someone should get a beat down over eggs?

Hrmmm.

Wheres the hatecrime?

Man on House crime. Houses are a minority that should be protected.

*shrug* No reason to get all riled up. After all, it's only eggs.

Can't get all riled up over "just a cartoon", but ...




Someone should get a beat down over eggs?

Hrmmm.
Yeah, someone should get a beat down over eggs. As if a family in mourning has nothing better to do than clean the eggs off of their house. What if a woman's husband was just killed overseas. She's busy taking care of their kids, making funeral arrangements, dealing with her grief, and now some punk's splattering her house with eggs to give her one more thing to worry about.

Violence is too underutilized in our society.

Forget counter-protestors; I'd much rather see vicious dogs and tigers go after these losers.

Yeah, someone should get a beat down over eggs. As if a family in mourning has nothing better to do than clean the eggs off of their house. What if a woman's husband was just killed overseas. She's busy taking care of their kids, making funeral arrangements, dealing with her grief, and now some punk's splattering her house with eggs to give her one more thing to worry about.

Violence is too underutilized in our society.
Well, since we pulled out the sophistry gun, lemme ask: wouldn't that family rather be cleaning egg off their house than burying their son?
Anybody can sketch a soap opera, but not all do it because "Violence is too underutilized in our society". Your point is lacking.

Violence is too underutilized in our society.

I see. But weren't you against embassy burnings and whatnot?

Myself, I say ignore it. Be the better person. If someone egged my house for that reason, I'd shrug and say, "Well ... that's what they died to protect."

Not like anyone got hurt.

I see. But weren't you against embassy burnings and whatnot?

Myself, I say ignore it. Be the better person. If someone egged my house for that reason, I'd shrug and say, "Well ... that's what they died to protect."

Not like anyone got hurt.
Egging someone else's property isn't freedom of speech.

The sad fact is that it is sick and disgusting that it even happened, no matter how much you disagree witht he politics of this war, it is still sickening...:sniper:

Well, since we pulled out the sophistry gun, lemme ask: wouldn't that family rather be cleaning egg off their house than burying their son?
Anybody can sketch a soap opera, but not all do it because "Violence is too underutilized in our society". Your point is lacking.
Sorry, I'm not following you. What's that about a soap opera?

Sorry, I'm not following you. What's that about a soap opera?
All of this is sheer sentimentalism, that was my point.

Egging someone else's property isn't freedom of speech.

No, but it could be argued that since a soldier is government property and, therefore, a public figure, then such an act could be protected under freedom of expression.

Also, drawing a cartoon intentionally to incite a riot is not protected free speech either.

Egging someone else's property isn't freedom of speech.
Neither is beating them down for it.

Man on House crime. Houses are a minority that should be protected.
:D Of course. Why didn't I think of that.:D

Some people will use the anti-war stance as an excuse for vandalism when in reality they're as politically unaware as they are insensitive to the family of this soldier.

No, but it could be argued that since a soldier is government property and, therefore, a public figure, then such an act could be protected under freedom of expression.

Also, drawing a cartoon intentionally to incite a riot is not protected free speech either.

The first case is destruction of public property.

The second case is what's known as "Violence Speech" which isn't protecting under the first amendment.

The first case is destruction of public property.


What got destroyed?

What got destroyed?
Alot of potential baby chickens?

What got destroyed?

Defacing falls under destruction of public property. Hence egging a government owned building is not protected under the freedom of expression.

All of this is sheer sentimentalism, that was my point.
Well, I'm just a sweet, sentimental guy. Sorry, but I won't appologize.

Defacing falls under destruction of public property. Hence egging a government owned building is not protected under the freedom of expression.

It was a privately owned home, not a government building.

Alot of potential baby chickens?

Well I am pro-choice. :D

No, but it could be argued that since a soldier is government property and, therefore, a public figure, then such an act could be protected under freedom of expression.

Also, drawing a cartoon intentionally to incite a riot is not protected free speech either.
Damaging someone else's property is never covered under freedom of speech. Don't believe me? Go egg the local police station, or the Donut shop, whichever has more cops in it at the time.

The cartoons weren't drawn to incite a riot. They were drawn to explore the issue of self-censorship due to fear of Muslim retaliation.

Well, I'm just a sweet, sentimental guy. Sorry, but I won't appologize.
Fine, be tacky.

They should be egged right back. And then jailed.

Damaging someone else's property is never covered under freedom of speech. Don't believe me? Go egg the local police station, or the Donut shop, whichever has more cops in it at the time.

Nothing got damaged. Property damage is assessed in dollar amounts. How much does it cost to run a garden hose for 2 minutes?

The cartoons weren't drawn to incite a riot. They were drawn to explore the issue of self-censorship due to fear of Muslim retaliation.

Actually, in one of the published apologies, it was admitted that the cartoons were drawn specifically to get a reaction.

Fine, be tacky.

Whilst I agree that violence is not the answer, do you not find this to be somewhat awful? Not just the egging but the phonecalls stating that the caller is glad the bereaved family's son is dead? Even regardless of the son's status as a soldier, is this not going against decent human compassion and humanity?

The cartoons weren't drawn to incite a riot. They were drawn to explore the issue of self-censorship due to fear of Muslim retaliation.

Exactly. They were re-printed to incite riots.

They should be egged right back. And then jailed.

Throwing eggs at a person is battery and could be a felony.

It was a privately owned home, not a government building.

Then it's destruction of private property, still illegal.

Whilst I agree that violence is not the answer, do you not find this to be somewhat awful? Not just the egging but the phonecalls stating that the caller is glad the bereaved family's son is dead? Even regardless of the son's status as a soldier, is this not going against decent human compassion and humanity?

Meh ... people have the right to protest war and they have the right to not support the troops who actively participate. Just because someone passed their MEPS and spent 8 weeks standing at attention and polishing shoes doesn't mean they should be placed on a pedestal.

Then it's destruction of private property, still illegal.

Nothing got destroyed.

Violence is too underutilized in our society.
*takes a step back and examines that statement*

Hmm.

Throwing eggs at a person is battery and could be a felony.
Those shells are sharp.

Meh ... people have the right to protest war and they have the right to not support the troops who actively participate. Just because someone passed their MEPS and spent 8 weeks standing at attention and polishing shoes doesn't mean they should be placed on a pedestal.

You'll notice I never said such a thing. I asked that, regardless of the son's status as a soldier, is this not going beyond human decency and basic morals? The son could be a doctor, lawyer or any such profession, it doesn't matter.

Nothing got destroyed.

Their home was defaced and devalued, they can press charges if they please and be reinbursed for any damages. Petty but still illegal.

I'm not arguing against protesting the war by any means, but there are more peaceful legal means of doing so. Like flag burning. (depending on the county you live in and the local fire safety laws and as long as it is your flag.)

Those shells are sharp.

I suppose it could be Assault With a Tastey Weapon.

Whilst I agree that violence is not the answer, do you not find this to be somewhat awful? Not just the egging but the phonecalls stating that the caller is glad the bereaved family's son is dead? Even regardless of the son's status as a soldier, is this not going against decent human compassion and humanity?
Haven't I already posted that I did think it did just that?
If this thread aims to be a way for people to pay their respects or whatever, then let me point out that the message had bias added to it from the very beginning. We wouldn't even be taliking about this if not to deplore the "follies of peace activism". And the tone of it was pure melodrama.

Nothing got damaged. Property damage is assessed in dollar amounts. How much does it cost to run a garden hose for 2 minutes?



Actually, in one of the published apologies, it was admitted that the cartoons were drawn specifically to get a reaction.
1) It's considered vandalism. Once again, if you dont' believe me do it and see if you win the resulting court case.

2) I'd agree that it was wrong if they were drawn on the walls of a mosque. As it was they were drawn in a newspaper.

I don't go around picking fights with Nation of Islam members because some of their publications depict white people as devils. Actual Muslims shouldn't go around starting shit because a Danish publication insults them.

Defacing falls under destruction of public property. Hence egging a government owned building is not protected under the freedom of expression.

Egging a house falls under vandalism, which is a crime.

You'll notice I never said such a thing. I asked that, regardless of the son's status as a soldier, is this not going beyond human decency and basic morals? The son could be a doctor, lawyer or any such profession, it doesn't matter.

Oh I dunno ... depends, doesn't it?

Doctors who abort fetuses get egged all the time. Lawyers who defend serial child rapists get egged. Politicians get pied. The prom queen gets her house tp'd.

I'd say it's harmless.

Throwing eggs at a person is battery and could be a felony.
Why? How much medical attention does some egg white and yolk require? It only takes a couple of minutes in the shower to wash it off?

Egging a house falls under vandalism, which is a crime.

I am ashamed of my ignorance.

*goes to commit Seppeku*

Oh I dunno ... depends, doesn't it?

Doctors who abort fetuses get egged all the time. Lawyers who defend serial child rapists get egged. Politicians get pied. The prom queen gets her house tp'd.

I'd say it's harmless.

It's still a crime and prosecutable if desired.

1) It's considered vandalism. Once again, if you dont' believe me do it and see if you win the resulting court case.


Oh feh ... I couldn't tell you the number of houses I've egged, tp'd, or boot-blacked the windows. Been caught a couple of times, but never arrested. Just made to clean it up.

As I said. Defacement of property, vandalism, and other similar crimes are placed in dollar value. Two minutes with a garden hose takes care of some eggs. No value loss, no crime.

I suppose it could be Assault With a Tastey Weapon.

No, no. Eggravated Assault.

Why? How much medical attention does some egg white and yolk require? It only takes a couple of minutes in the shower to wash it off?

Depends on how hard the eggs are thrown and if they're hard-boiled or not.

We're talking about a house, not a person.

Oh feh ... I couldn't tell you the number of houses I've egged, tp'd, or boot-blacked the windows. Been caught a couple of times, but never arrested. Just made to clean it up.

As I said. Defacement of property, vandalism, and other similar crimes are placed in dollar value. Two minutes with a garden hose takes care of some eggs. No value loss, no crime.

That's just not true. It's still a crime whether or not there's a value loss, and just because you've gotten away with it in the past doesn't make it not a crime.

No, no. Eggravated Assault.

I just spit coffee on my monitor. Thanks.

Damn that's funny. I'm gonna giggle over that one for a while.

*shrug* No reason to get all riled up. After all, it's only eggs.

Can't get all riled up over "just a cartoon", but ...




Someone should get a beat down over eggs?

Hrmmm.

Eggs, if left unattended, can cause property damage. I speak from experience, having egged some farm equipment. It can eat the paint right off of things. So 'just eggs' is vandalism and illegal.

*takes a step back and examines that statement*

Hmm.
Aren't there are situations when someone's lack of driving skills or petty crime make you want to hurt him just a little. I'm not talking about hospitalizing someone, but just a quick little beating to make you feel better.;)

Depends on how hard the eggs are thrown and if they're hard-boiled or not.

We're talking about a house, not a person.

No, it doesn't matter. Egging someone with soft-boiled, hard-boiled, scrambled, over-easy, or raw eggs are all just as much against the law as one another.

Why? How much medical attention does some egg white and yolk require? It only takes a couple of minutes in the shower to wash it off?

Well, you never know. It might end up putting out an eye or something. Beside, in most cases, its intent that makes the difference between an accident and battery doesn't it? I mean, if a guy tried to punch you but could only muster a hit that wouldn't even knock down a fly, it would still count as assault if the intent was there.

No, it doesn't matter. Egging someone with soft-boiled, hard-boiled, scrambled, over-easy, or raw eggs are all just as much against the law as one another.
Don’t forget folks…assault can be defined as loosely as someone feeling threatened by violence. So if you slam a pile of books onto the desk of a fellow co-worker and make a mean face, and he really believes you are about to do him violence, that can be considered assault.

So, I tried to find the article on the internet, but couldn't find the exact one that Eutrusca quoted.

However, I did find this:
http://www.perutribune.com/articles/2006/03/02/state_news/1state.txt

KOKOMO, Ind. (AP) - Police posted an around-the-clock security watch at the home of an Indiana soldier killed last week in Iraq after it was vandalized and his family received disturbing phone calls.

The home of Sgt. Rickey Jones was egged Saturday, three days after Jones' family learned the 21-year-old and three other soldiers had been killed by a roadside bomb north of Baghdad. His family also received phone calls in which the caller said: ‘‘I'm glad your son is dead.''

Now, Jones' relatives and police are bracing for the possibility that a Topeka, Kan.-based group will protest at his funeral Monday.

Members of the Westboro Baptist Church have protested at military funerals across the nation, including shouting insults at soldiers' surviving relatives and holding signs that read ‘‘God Made IEDs'' - a reference to roadside bombs.

The group claims American soldiers are dying in Iraq due to divine intervention because the United States harbors homosexuals.

It would appear that these actions have more to do with Phelps than with any real protest movement.

Why? How much medical attention does some egg white and yolk require? It only takes a couple of minutes in the shower to wash it off?
Eggshells are sharp. Shows what you know.

Now, if it was hardboiled eggs, that would be awesome. You could replace waterballoon fights with that shit.

Eggshells are sharp. Shows what you know.

Now, if it was hardboiled eggs, that would be awesome. You could replace waterballoon fights with that shit.
I've never managed to cut myself on an egg shell.

So, I tried to find the article on the internet, but couldn't find the exact one that Eutrusca quoted.

However, I did find this:
http://www.perutribune.com/articles/2006/03/02/state_news/1state.txt

It would appear that these actions have more to do with Phelps than with any real protest movement.
No. They just mentioned Phelps because he and his idiot church are in the news. Pure hypothesizing on the part of the reporter. Possibly wishful thinking as well.

No. They just mentioned Phelps because he and his idiot church are in the news. Pure hypothesizing on the part of the reporter. Possibly wishful thinking as well.

Yes. When I read the article that I linked to, there seemed to be no connection between the Westboro Baptist Church and the vandalism. However, these despicable actions seem, to me, more of a product of Phelpslike hate than anti-war sentiment.

I would also like to point out that your article (where did you find that anyway?) does not relate the vandalism and phone call to the anti-war movement either.

Yes. When I read the article that I linked to, there seemed to be no connection between the Westboro Baptist Church and the vandalism. However, these despicable actions seem, to me, more of a product of Phelpslike hate than anti-war sentiment.

I would also like to point out that your article (where did you find that anyway?) does not relate the vandalism and phone call to the anti-war movement either.
The full article is here: http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1571393.php

Note that it's the Army Times quoting The Associated Press.

This is the sort of incident we use to hear about on an almost daily basis during Vietnam, in addition to soldiers being spat upon and called "baby-killers," both of which happened to me personally.

Well, whoever did these acts is a disgusting and horrible person with no compassion whatsoever. However, there seems to be no indication that the person or people who did this have anything to do with people who are protesting the war. It could just as easily be some sick, twisted fuck who had a personal grudge against the fallen soldier or his family.

Eutrusca, your condemnation of all protestors due to the acts of one person who may not even be a protestor is a generalisation. When you add that to the veiled threat in your OP, I am reminded of the police who use violence against peoplewho are merely exercising their legal rights. It is wrong, and you should know better.
If you re-read his post you'll notice he said "this sort of behavior." He is not talking about protesting teh war. He is talking specifically about vandalizing the homes of soldiers and making harrasing phone calls to the families of fallen soldiers. I'm against the war, but I'd like to kick the shit out of any pussy that would do something like this.

Neither I nor thousands of other veterans will tolerate this. If you know any "protestors," you can do them a great favor by telling them in no uncertain terms that this sort of behavior could easily result in a considerably shortened life-span.
Who gives a damn what you and thousands of other willful dupes won't tolerate?

And if you happen to know anybody else who routinely soft-pedals war to impressionable young people, do them a great favour by telling them to shut the Hell up before I plant my foot up their lower intestines.

No, no. Eggravated Assault.

you win the thread.

Violence is too underutilized in our society.

*adds to sig*

If you re-read his post you'll notice he said "this sort of behavior." He is not talking about protesting teh war. He is talking specifically about vandalizing the homes of soldiers and making harrasing phone calls to the families of fallen soldiers. I'm against the war, but I'd like to kick the shit out of any pussy that would do something like this.

If Eutrusca feels that I am putting words in his mouth, I am sure he is capable of telling me himself.

While I don't think egging the FAMILY'S house is right, I have to ask what's worse: Invading a country to kill people and blow up houses or invading a lawn to insult people and egg houses...

While I don't think egging the FAMILY'S house is right, I have to ask what's worse: Invading a country to kill people and blow up houses or invading a lawn to insult people and egg houses...

You sound like you feel they deserve this just because they had a family member in the military. If you want to hate, hate Bush, not the soldiers. They sign up and sometimes they save lives and sometimes they take lives. If it were you a soldier was carrying to safety from a hostile zone, saving your life, you might be a little less judgemental.

You sound like you feel they deserve this just because they had a family member in the military. If you want to hate, hate Bush, not the soldiers. They sign up and sometimes they save lives and sometimes they take lives. If it were you a soldier was carrying to safety from a hostile zone, saving your life, you might be a little less judgemental.

Read the very beginning of my sentence. And if a soldier carried me out of a war zone from a war that HIS SIDE started, I'd laugh at the irony of the situation and file a complaint for their government to pay me back for all my stuff that they destroyed. There would be no war if they didn't show up for it.

Read the very beginning of my sentence. And if a soldier carried me out of a war zone from a war that HIS SIDE started, I'd laugh at the irony of the situation and file a complaint for their government to pay me back for all my stuff that they destroyed. There would be no war if they didn't show up for it.


You wouldnt laugh, youd be shitting your pants as each bullet whizzed by your head. You wouldnt care if it was a soldier or the tooth fairy, as long as you got out alive, youd be grateful.

COMMENTARY: This is where it always leads. This is where it lead during the "protests" during the Vietnam war. Neither I nor thousands of other veterans will tolerate this. If you know any "protestors," you can do them a great favor by telling them in no uncertain terms that this sort of behavior could easily result in a considerably shortened life-span.

I'm sure that about 99.7% of anti-war activists are as disgusted by this as you are.

I'm sure that about 99.7% of anti-war activists are as disgusted by this as you are.
Yeah, I know I am. But the solution is not to kill them as Eutrusca so delicately advocates. And who says Iraq isn't becoming like Vietnam? This is just another sick example.

I'm sure that about 99.7% of anti-war activists are as disgusted by this as you are.

Yeah, but he doesn't care. Straw-manning caused by (supposed) trauma, you know. I'm sure he'd be just as "but I didn't do this" if confronted by someone from My Lai...

You wouldnt laugh, youd be shitting your pants as each bullet whizzed by your head. You wouldnt care if it was a soldier or the tooth fairy, as long as you got out alive, youd be grateful.

I'm not sure I'd be thankful for someone saving me from something they caused...

I'm not sure I'd be thankful for someone saving me from something they caused...


So a bank robber and his bandits come in to rob a bank while youre in line to cash your check. Things go wrong and bullets start flying. Are you saying youd be mad if one of the bank robbers pulled you down to the ground and shielded you from the bullet? I mean, they started it.

So a bank robber and his bandits come in to rob a bank while youre in line to cash your check. Things go wrong and bullets start flying. Are you saying youd be mad if one of the bank robbers pulled you down to the ground and shielded you from the bullet? I mean, they started it.

I'd be mad at him for staging the bank robbery that created the need for him to save me in the first place. Then I'd get a good look at his face and describe him to the police to get a nice reward. It'd teach them not to rob banks.

I'd be mad at him for staging the bank robbery that created the need for him to save me in the first place. Then I'd get a good look at his face and describe him to the police to get a nice reward. It'd teach them not to rob banks.

Thats not what I asked. I asked would you be happy that someone saved you from a bullet that could have ended your life in 2 seconds flat....despite who they were.

Thats not what I asked. I asked would you be happy that someone saved you from a bullet that could have ended your life in 2 seconds flat....despite who they were.

I'd be HAPPY, yes. Wether or not I'd be THANKFUL TOWARDS THEM would depend on what they did to cause the bullet.

I'd be HAPPY, yes. Wether or not I'd be THANKFUL TOWARDS THEM would depend on what they did to cause the bullet.

Thats all I was looking for. I'll leave you be now.

I'm going to guess that it's not the anti-war protestors doing that one. I'm guessing it's the god hates fags people who did that. Remember, the ones who are protesting the funerals of soliders too?

Oh, I believe this sort of thing happened to Vietnam veterans as well - I read up a little on the subject a while ago.

I lived it. We were also called "baby killers" and were spit on. No American soldier, sailor, marine, or airman deserves that king of treatment. No family deserves the treatment that family is getting.

Perhaps what we need to do is get a group, a large group of vets to go to Kansas and raise hell in front of that church when they are having services. Maybe those very patriotic bikers will join us and rev those engines up to the maximum. I have my Culpepper flag and am ready to go as soon as I get this cast off my leg Monday.

I think Eutrusca had his wires crossed in Vietnam, so let's just ignore all of his posts that deal with "logical" conclusions.

Eut isn't not the only one, I'm in that group to and damn proud of it.

*shrug* No reason to get all riled up. After all, it's only eggs.

Can't get all riled up over "just a cartoon", but ...




Someone should get a beat down over eggs?

Hrmmm.

Publishing a cartoon, no matter how offensive or insensitive it may be, in a newspaper is freedom of the press and freedom of speech. Throwing eggs on someone’s house is vandalism. One hell of a big difference.

I don't mind the egging so much - on the grounds that their son was murdering Iraqis; but, the "I'm glad that your son is dead" phone call was crossing the line.

I lived it. We were also called "baby killers" and were spit on. No American soldier, sailor, marine, or airman deserves that king of treatment. No family deserves the treatment that family is getting.

Perhaps what we need to do is get a group, a large group of vets to go to Kansas and raise hell in front of that church when they are having services. Maybe those very patriotic bikers will join us and rev those engines up to the maximum. I have my Culpepper flag and am ready to go as soon as I get this cast off my leg Monday.
You know what, some people hate communism. Some people hate communism and communists. Some people hate the Bush Administration, and some people hate all Republicans because of the Bush Administration. Some people hate homosexuality, and some people hate homosexuals. Some people hate the military, and some people hate military personnel. However screwed up it is, that's how it'll be. There will always be those extremes.

Well, since we pulled out the sophistry gun, lemme ask: wouldn't that family rather be cleaning egg off their house than burying their son? SNIP

This family must now do both. :(

I see. But weren't you against embassy burnings and whatnot?

Myself, I say ignore it. Be the better person. If someone egged my house for that reason, I'd shrug and say, "Well ... that's what they died to protect."

Not like anyone got hurt.

They died to protect freedom of speech, not the freedom to vandalize a person's property.

Also, drawing a cartoon intentionally to incite a riot is not protected free speech either.

First, there is no evidence those cartoons were drawn for that purpose. In fact when those cartoons were published there was no outcry in the country they were published in. The outcry came several months later after a few people raised the issue at a religous conference in another country. So, who had the agenda? :(

No. They just mentioned Phelps because he and his idiot church are in the news. Pure hypothesizing on the part of the reporter. Possibly wishful thinking as well.
You know why they did that? Because they are the ones currently engaging in that tactic, it is a current and more likely connection than the one from forty years ago. Sorry Bob, it's the Westboro Babtists, not the peace movement. Nice attempt conflate the two, I'll try and remember that when seperating christians from the Westboro Bunch....

Just because someone passed their MEPS and spent 8 weeks standing at attention and polishing shoes doesn't mean they should be placed on a pedestal.

For that no. For putting their life on the line so that people can be free, yes. You can't build a pedestal tall enough for that.

For that no. For putting their life on the line so that people can be free, yes. You can't build a pedestal tall enough for that.
I agree completely with that...as long as you take out "so that people can be free." The righteousness of the war should have no justification as to how soldiers of the war should be treated.

As I said. Defacement of property, vandalism, and other similar crimes are placed in dollar value. Two minutes with a garden hose takes care of some eggs. No value loss, no crime.

WRONG! Maybe in your eyes, but not in the eye of the law. Vandalism is a crime and value of loss has nothing to do with it.

They died to protect freedom of speech, not the freedom to vandalize a person's property.
Yeah, I wonder where Keruvalia got the idea that people have a legal right to vandalise stuff that isn't theirs?

You know why they did that? Because they are the ones currently engaging in that tactic, it is a current and more likely connection than the one from forty years ago. Sorry Bob, it's the Westboro Babtists, not the peace movement. Nice attempt conflate the two, I'll try and remember that when seperating christians from the Westboro Bunch....

Are you trying to tell me Westboro Baptists are not a part of the "peace movement"?

Are you trying to tell me Westboro Baptists are not a part of the "peace movement"?
Are you trying to tell me they don't represent chritians?

Are you trying to tell me they don't represent chritians?

Zing.

Are you trying to tell me they don't represent chritians?

No.

COMMENTARY: This is where it always leads. This is where it lead during the "protests" during the Vietnam war. Neither I nor thousands of other veterans will tolerate this. If you know any "protestors," you can do them a great favor by telling them in no uncertain terms that this sort of behavior could easily result in a considerably shortened life-span.
You are not going to tolerate this kind of action? What are YOU going to do about it? The other day, you were going on about "freedom of speech", and about "sensitivities" in regards to some Muslim cartoons, and about the Muslims over reacting. Here you are suggesting bodily harm up to and including "a considerably shortened life-span" because some protestors targeted a dead soldier's house and an inappropriate phone call.

It would appear that as much as you want to be the defender of "freedom of speech" and "freedom of expression", you keep tripping over your "sensitivities"?

I think your "sensitivity" is showing right alongside your hypocrisy.

They died to protect freedom of speech, not the freedom to vandalize a person's property.
A very interesting quote:

"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
- 19th-century Danish Christian philosopher Soren Kierkegaard

An even more interesting story that pulls no punches, and dispels the myths that abound in these threads!!

The misplaced defense of free speech (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HB07Ak03.html)

With all due respect, I don't see how soldiers dying in Iraq are doing so to "protect freedom of speech", however, I do see how they (the soldiers) have the "freedom" to vandalize Iraqi property, and to execute those that stand in the way of their pursuits.

Here in this thread, the OP talks about the egging of a dead soldiers house as the beginning of the "hate crime". Perhaps we all need to think about that as soldiers in Iraq break down doors and we all need to think about cities such as Fallujah as they are reduced to rubble.

A very interesting quote:

"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
- 19th-century Danish Christian philosopher Soren Kierkegaard

An even more interesting story that pulls no punches, and dispels the myths that abound in these threads!!

The misplaced defense of free speech (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HB07Ak03.html)

With all due respect, I don't see how soldiers dying in Iraq are doing so to "protect freedom of speech", however, I do see how they (the soldiers) have the "freedom" to vandalize Iraqi property, and to execute those that stand in the way of their pursuits.

Here in this thread, the OP talks about the egging of a dead soldiers house as the beginning of the "hate crime". Perhaps we all need to think about that as soldiers in Iraq break down doors and cities such as Fallujah are reduced to rubble.

What I dont understand is why people have so much compasion for people in other nations... THEY DONT MATTER!!! They dont have the same rights as Americans and dont deserve to be protected by us or our millitary or our constitution. I think we should simply continue to subjugate them and profit from thier existence as we always have, its worked well so far.

what kind of real protesters egg people's houses in kinbuggery indiana, this isn't about antiwar protests, its either about teenage delinquents or crazies... who were probably responsible for the same urban legend spawning stupidity during the vietnam war.

What I dont understand is why people have so much compasion for people in other nations... THEY DONT MATTER!!! They dont have the same rights as Americans and dont deserve to be protected by us or our millitary or our constitution. I think we should simply continue to subjugate them and profit from thier existence as we always have, its worked well so far.
Well, I guess nothing is stopping you from signing up and going over there to "subjugate them", or are you going to leave the dirty work for others?

I'd be mad at him for staging the bank robbery that created the need for him to save me in the first place. Then I'd get a good look at his face and describe him to the police to get a nice reward. It'd teach them not to rob banks.


Woww, man of the day

What I dont understand is why people have so much compasion for people in other nations... THEY DONT MATTER!!! They dont have the same rights as Americans and dont deserve to be protected by us or our millitary or our constitution. I think we should simply continue to subjugate them and profit from thier existence as we always have, its worked well so far.

Come and get me, in case you don't value your life and limbs. You're no better than anyone else, and, if you ever tried to attack random foreigners, you'd be dead before leaving your town, punk.

Come and get me, in case you don't value your life and limbs. You're no better than anyone else, and, if you ever tried to attack random foreigners, you'd be dead before leaving your town, punk.


You really shouldnt feed the trolls.
It only encourages them to come back.

You really shouldnt feed the trolls.
It only encourages them to come back.

I am, as he put it, a foreigner, and I had two bad days lately, which make me want to humiliate him... I know one shouldn't feed trolls, but I'm in a bad mood, I could use some sadism...

I am, as he put it, a foreigner, and I had two bad days lately, which make me want to humiliate him... I know one shouldn't feed trolls, but I'm in a bad mood, I could use some sadism...


In that case, I say offer a homeless man a dollar for everytime he lets you kick him.


Hmm....no...maybe thats a bad idea.

In that case, I say offer a homeless man a dollar for everytime he lets you kick him.


Hmm....no...maybe thats a bad idea.

Meh. My sadism is oral, not physical. And, I'm broke, anyways...

What they need is veterans associations to secretly stand guard at the house. If somebody eggs the house, chase after them and when they're caught you put them in hospital. Problem sovled.

What they need is veterans associations to secretly stand guard at the house. If somebody eggs the house, chase after them and when they're caught you put them in hospital. Problem sovled.

I see. That nice idea fails to account for the fact that they, too, can get organized and turn the thing into a gang war. Here was I thinking the Military supported people's right for a trial, due process and so on. Silly me.

Here was I thinking the Military supported people's right for a trial, due process and so on. Silly me.

No they don't. Eutrusca proves that with this thread. And look at Gitmo and Abu Graib - where are the due process and the fair trials there? The US military couldn't give a rat's ass about freedom, rule of law and democratic principles.

No they don't. Eutrusca proves that with this thread. And look at Gitmo and Abu Graib - where are the due process and the fair trials there? The US military couldn't give a rat's ass about freedom, rule of law and democratic principles.

Hey! Grand Theft Point! You're driving MY point home!

(Jk, here are some cookies) ;)

I see. That nice idea fails to account for the fact that they, too, can get organized and turn the thing into a gang war.
Which is why there needs to be sympathetic people in organisations like the government and police. People who are willing to overlook the actions of the veterans associations while crushing the anti-military degenerates.

Wheres the hatecrime?

Vandalism is a crime, and if we know the entire story, we can assume it was carried out only because the person was a soldier.

Eutrusca is stretching the definition, but I see where he was coming from.

Which is why there needs to be sympathetic people in organisations like the government and police. People who are willing to overlook the actions of the veterans associations while crushing the anti-military degenerates.

Ah, fascism.

Isn't a hate crime any crime which is committed with hate as the motivating factor?

Isn't a hate crime any crime which is committed with hate as the motivating factor?

Not in the legal sense. I could steal your camera for no other reason than hate (assuming that I did not covet the camera) but the crime would be theft.

Isn't a hate crime any crime which is committed with hate as the motivating factor?
We have hate propaganda laws in Canada and when that was pointed out to Eutrusca in another thread, his reply was "sad". However, that was in a topic about Danish cartoons, but it appears that if it is the US military as the target, then the perpetrators should expect that "this sort of behavior could easily result in a considerably shortened life-span."

How melodramatic can one be?

Eutrusca is stretching the definition, but I see where he was coming from.
Sorry, but the man is so far out in left field, I'd need proper binoculars to see where he's coming from.

We have hate propaganda laws in Canada and when that was pointed out to Eutrusca in another thread, his reply was "sad". However, that was in a topic about Danish cartoons, but it appears that if it is the US military as the target, then the perpetrators should expect that "this sort of behavior could easily result in a considerably shortened life-span."

How melodramatic can one be?
Melodramatic enough that his head might explode?
http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW02-15-06.jpg

Melodramatic enough that his head might explode?
http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW02-15-06.jpg


I am a space-penguin and I find this cartoon offensive.

I am a space-penguin and I find this cartoon offensive.

I am offended by your mocking of the easily offended.

I am offended by your mocking of the easily offended.
I am easily mocked by the offensiveness of insensitive space-penguins.

I am easily mocked by the offensiveness of insensitive space-penguins.

How dare you imply that space-penguins are insensitive? I'll have you know they were born that way!

How dare you imply that space-penguins are insensitive? I'll have you know they were born that way!

It's sad that in the year 2006 we still have to campaign for the rights of the insensitive. One day we shall be free!

I am easily mocked by the offensiveness of insensitive space-penguins.

I'm offended by you being easily mocked by the offensiveness of insensitive space-penguins.

I'm offended by you being easily mocked by the offensiveness of insensitive space-penguins.

I am offended by the length of this running gag.

I am offended by the length of this running gag.

Me too. It should be longer.

Me too. It should be longer.
I'm offended by your bias against short-running gags.

I'm offended by your bias against short-running gags.

I'm offended...

By something. I'll get back to you on that.

I'm offended by your bias against short-running gags.
The title of this thread makes me want to gag.

The title of this thread makes me want to gag.

Thank you!

That's it, exactly! I'm offended by the title of this thread!

Thanks, Canuck!

I find it offensive when OPs create a thorough bombshell of a thread, then bugger off when the heat is on.

I find it offensive when OPs create a thorough bombshell of a thread, then bugger off when the heat is on.
This is just par for the course, though, considering the OP'er.

I find it offensive when OPs create a thorough bombshell of a thread, then bugger off when the heat is on.

I find the word "bombshell" offensive. My mother exploded to death after eating shellfish.

This is just par for the course, though, considering the OP'er.
Duly noted. This is just par for the course, though, considering the ludicrous amount of leeway & deference offered the OP on these forums, due apparently to his choice of vocation and advanced age.

I find the word "bombshell" offensive. My mother exploded to death after eating shellfish.

*slaps your momma's corpse*

*slaps your momma's corpse*

Now that's just good-natured fun.

I am offended by your ugly faces! Mwuhahahahaha

I know, I know... I run the risk of seeming repetitive, and of overplaying the 'inserted Tom Tomorrow card'... Hell, this doesn't even have anything to do with the thread - well, not directly, anyway - but it's just so much damn fun (and it'd kill me to have to wait for a truly opportune moment to use it), so...

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW03-01-06.jpg

Wow! Now I'm beginning to understand the Bizarro Conservative world that exists alongside our own...

Duly noted. This is just par for the course, though, considering the ludicrous amount of leeway & deference offered the OP on these forums, due apparently to his choice of vocation and advanced age.

Once you get to know Eut in more direct venues, you start to pay less attention to his persona here.

Once you get to know Eut in more direct venues, you start to pay less attention to his persona here.
What, did he show up at your place of work?

What, did he show up at your place of work?

I hope not, as I don't wish illness upon him. We've talked over Skype, and it's always different when you can talk talk with someone. The two of us used to be down each other's throats before that, our animosity spanning threads, but after our chats, it got hard to dehumanise enough to be able to keep up a disliking.

Well, sorry Fass, but I'm not dissuaded by your Skype rapprochement with old Truss.

Well, sorry Fass, but I'm not dissuaded by your Skype rapprochement with old Truss.

You needn't be. I just know what people show here is not what people are.