NationStates Jolt Archive

I was thinking about this, being a student.
Should there be bias, especially in history and spanish (Highly culture-oriented spanish -.-)? Yes, it is difficult to teach WITHOUT bias, but.. it shouldn't be too damn obvious what the bias is, right?
Should there be left (Liberal/Democratic) or right (Conservative/Republican) bias? Both? Neither?

Edit: To clarify.
Public high schools, the united states, the average teacher, specifically, I am on the west coast, but anywhere.

Which schools? Where? What kind of schools? What kind of teachers? What kind of culture?

Having said that, neither. Teachers and schools should never be baised, but allow students to think for themselves. In fact, they should teach students to think for themselves.

If teachers want to give their own opinion that is fine, as long as they allow students to share their opinions too. But the teacher should make it clear that it is their own opinion.

Well it's like this. I'm a leftist, and I believe I'm correct in my opinions. But it's morally wrong to bias the teachings of a school no matter how correct you may believe yourself to be. Facts should be taught at school, and students should be taught how to form, express and defend arguments based on those facts. A proper school is not an agent of indoctrination, left or right, but a place to develop one's reasoning skills, and to gain a basic level of factual knowledge.

If teachers want to give their own opinion that is fine, as long as they allow students to share their opinions too. But the teacher should make it clear that it is their own opinion.

Students are too susceptible to lean towards the same view as the teacher, for fear of lower marks.

Or they will blame the teacher for opposing their personal views.

Just avoid anything left/right unless it's directly relevant.

Well it's like this. I'm a leftist, and I believe I'm correct in my opinions. But it's morally wrong to bias the teachings of a school no matter how correct you may believe yourself to be. Facts should be taught at school, and students should be taught how to form, express and defend arguments based on those facts. A proper school is not an agent of indoctrination, left or right, but a place to develop one's reasoning skills, and to gain a basic level of factual knowledge.

I agree completely. I'm asking this because I actually (accidently, but oh well) began a discussion about this today in class, and I was wondering about other peoples' opinions.

Students are too susceptible to lean towards the same view as the teacher, for fear of lower marks.

Or they will blame the teacher for opposing their personal views.

Just avoid anything left/right unless it's directly relevant.

OBJECTION!! (http://ssv.jaccinc.com/media/ds/phoenixwright1.jpg)

A teacher has no right to award marks based on how the students' views mesh with his/hers!

And any student who blames his teacher for that kind of reason deserves low marks!

And students need to be exposed to both sides of an arguement in order to think for themselves!

But isn't it difficult to consider how to present things without a slant? Sometimes facts are just facts, and a lot of those facts might prove (Left opinion) is true and (Right opinion) is wrong, or vice-versa. How do you avoid that in a lot of situations? And if the solution is not to teach about that opinion is at all, how will students be educated? There are already a lot of things people should know and don't.

Teachers should be forced to teach with a leftist bias.

Teachers should be forced to teach with a leftist bias.
No, it should be the opposite. That way lefties can claim that the education system is failing becasue of right wing policies being taught in school.

Teachers should be forced to teach with a leftist bias.
Especially in Kansas.

No, it should be the opposite. That way lefties can claim that the education system is failing becasue of right wing policies being taught in school.

Uh.. how about the education system doesn't fail so we don't have anything to complain about in the first place? >.>

Teachers should be forced to teach with a leftist bias.

How about they teach with no bias?

Neither, it would be a libertarian bias :p
No seriously - try to stay unbiased but readily admit that there will be some biases to how things are. Essentially how my US I teacher taught history.

But keep bias out of non-history/philosophy related subjects. My French teacher last year was basically your 'omfg bush suxxorz lol socialism good' type, and he made me want to do this -> :headbang:

How about they teach with no bias?

No. Teaching with no bias will imply that Conservativism and Capitalism are ok. They are not. Our children should not be allowed to think such vile things are alright to thing well of.

No. Teaching with no bias will imply that Conservativism and Capitalism are ok. They are not. Our children should not be allowed to think such vile things are alright to thing well of.
Reminds me of the time that a kid put civil disobediance in a bad light on a poster assignment about Ghandi and failed. What fool would trifle with the grandness that is civil disobediance!

Left or right? Goddamn I guess we libertarians, socialists, fascists, and anarchists just don't exist in that oh-so-perfect left-right spectrum.

Left or right? Goddamn I guess we libertarians, socialists, fascists, and anarchists just don't exist in that oh-so-perfect left-right spectrum.
You fall in the "other" or "none of the above"

Reminds me of the time that a kid put civil disobediance in a bad light on a poster assignment about Ghandi and failed. What fool would trifle with the grandness that is civil disobediance!
Of course. The Indian Nazi government was bad. Anyone that fails to see that, or not hold that opinion, does not deserve to be in school.

how can you honestly say that you think children should have your views programmed into them? Are you really that scared that rational adults who can think for themselves will disagree with you're views?

Obviously, if you have so little faith in the validity of your beliefs and views that you do not believe they can stand on merit alone, then perhaps you should reconsider them.

The school system should NOT be the place for anything other than the skills that are needed for an adult to make their own decisions. Logic, Reason, and a basic grasp of how to read through the bullshit that is politics.

Anything beyond that has no place in an education system, and should not be tought in ANY form of school. This includes private religious schools, and the like.


(edit) also, i dont think that you should fail based on what position you take. Taking the position of the devil's advocate should in fact be required, because it helps in developing the basic skills to successfully argue a position. For example, arguements can be made that infantacide is acceptable, along with the one that ghandi is not someone to be looked up to, since he was inciting civil disobediance.

No. Teaching with no bias will imply that Conservativism and Capitalism are ok. They are not. Our children should not be allowed to think such vile things are alright to think well of.
Whoa, when did you get so anticapitalist? I turn around one mintue here and it's a whole new ballgame! :eek:

Devils advocate is not nessesary when we all hold the right opinions and views.

And some people simply don't know logic and reasoning. People need to tell them the proper thoughts.

Whoa, when did you get so anticapitalist? I turn around one mintue here and it's a whole new ballgame! :eek:

I am not Anti-Capitalist, per se, I'm just anti-badness.

Shhhh! I'm attempting to end this thread before it gets bad.

In the basic courses, there should be as much objectivity as possible. In more advanced ones, the focus should be on providing a plurality of views instead.

The one place where I would keep to one perspective is bigotry - every textbook should be unequivocally against it.

Objectivity SHOULD NOT be taught!

We would get people with Nazi or Conservative or Capitalist ideals!

Imagine! A society of Nazi Conservative Capitalists! The Horror!

No bias. Let them learn to form their own opinions.

This reminds me of my cousin's elementary school in the 2004 elections (remember Kerry, the flip-flopper?). The day before election day, teachers told all their students that the next day was "flip-flop day" and everyone should wear their flip-flops (sandals for you Northerners, but those are the words they used.) Right-wing, anyone?

Devils advocate is not nessesary when we all hold the right opinions and views.

And some people simply don't know logic and reasoning. People need to tell them the proper thoughts.

But we don't all have the right opinions and views. Especially if we aren't educated well enough. And in educating, it is hard not to be biased, especially if you have to choose what to teach and what not to teach. What is more important, learning about the nice things someone has done or the things they have done that have brought down nations? If you choose one over the other, than you might give the children you teach a bias toward that fact. Both might be statements of truth but, still..

Also.. Anarchist person that I'm paraphrasing...
We don't exactly have an Anarchist party in the House of Reps, do we? Sorry :( But we do have Democrats and Republicans, and I was trying to give some idea of what left and right is, when at first I was trying to be general. o_O; It confused people. Echh.. Can't please everyone.

And, South Islands: If you learned about WWII and what the Nazis did, without anyone elses' opinion, wouldn't you come to the conclusion that they suck? In that particular scenario, at least.

And, South Islands: If you learned about WWII and what the Nazis did, without anyone elses' opinion, wouldn't you come to the conclusion that they suck? In that particular scenario, at least.

That's why we, the good people, should make the next generation hold the right(left) views. We cannot let history repeat itself.

Imagine! A society of Nazi Conservative Capitalists! The Horror!
Like the Libertarian National Socialist Green Party? :D

Also, here's my thought..
Do you select neither because you find it morally offensive?
Do you select both because you don't see how there can't be bias?
Do you select the left because YOU think you are right?

I would choose the left, after a lot of thought, although there are a lot of ideas that some liberals have that are stupid. Stupid. However, there are more ideas that the right has had-- and implemented- that has fucked up our country. So I'd prefer the left. However, in trying to be fair, because we SHOULD be fair to impressionable young people when they have yet to form their own opinions, I'd say neither. Since neither is not possible, I'd say both-- but, the right is.. pretty evil at this point. I don't want to suggest that people should jump into war and lie to the people and destroy social security. o_O; So.. I'm back at the left.
Buuuut..
See the predicament here?

Also, here's my thought..
Do you select neither because you find it morally offensive?
Do you select both because you don't see how there can't be bias?
Do you select the left because YOU think you are right?

I would choose the left, after a lot of thought, although there are a lot of ideas that some liberals have that are stupid. Stupid. However, there are more ideas that the right has had-- and implemented- that has fucked up our country. So I'd prefer the left. However, in trying to be fair, because we SHOULD be fair to impressionable young people when they have yet to form their own opinions, I'd say neither. Since neither is not possible, I'd say both-- but, the right is.. pretty evil at this point. I don't want to suggest that people should jump into war and lie to the people and destroy social security. o_O; So.. I'm back at the left.
Buuuut..
See the predicament here?

NO! Look what free opinions have given us! CONSERVATIVISM!

Do you want another generation of conservatives!? NO! We must take charge now, and learn from the past! Ensure that conservativism goes the way of polio!

If I taught a social studies class I might end up coming across as somewhat conservative. This is because even though teaching should be based on facts teachers still end up interpreting some of those facts therefore making bias a naturally occuring thing to some extent. Of course, I would probably not be a right idealist or high holy conservative or anything and would hopefully seem centrist-leaning right more than anything else.

Leftness is not considered absolutely true by the government and should not be purposefully taught to children because of that fact, the same as right wingedness.

NO! Look what free opinions have given us! CONSERVATIVISM!

Do you want another generation of conservatives!? NO! We must take charge now, and learn from the past! Ensure that conservativism goes the way of polio!

Lmao..
And no. Good god(dess) no. I do NOT want any more republicans. I do not assume that EVERY single republican is an asshole, but almost every single one with power in this country is, and the ones who vote those assholes back into power should..
Go the way of polio :D
and I don't think so many people would join that party if they had a more thorough education of what they've done to this place.

How the hell did we let Reagan and Bush Senior run this country for SIXTEEN YEARS!?

Oh, and holyawesomeness, you said "Leftness is not considered absolutely true by the government and should not be purposefully taught to children because of that fact, the same as right wingedness."
It isn't really a matter of what's true by the government. THEY would choose right, and we know it. It's what YOU would choose. And the left has its flaws, a lot, but the right.. has a lot more. o_o

A government employee should try to reduce bias when teaching other people's children. If the parents want to instill a political belief then that is their right but for an employee of the government to use a position of authority to cause children to think in the same way of that employee seems to have some amount of wrongness to it. If the government decides on a right wing or left wing curriculum then the teacher being an employee of the government must offer some amount of compliance, however, centrism is preferable because teachers are supposed to educate other people's kids on how to think and give them knowledge, not to teach them what to think and give them bias.

OBJECTION!! (http://ssv.jaccinc.com/media/ds/phoenixwright1.jpg)

A teacher has no right to award marks based on how the students' views mesh with his/hers!

And any student who blames his teacher for that kind of reason deserves low marks!

And students need to be exposed to both sides of an arguement in order to think for themselves!
A teacher has no right to do that , but the are physically able to, and some will. It's hard to fire a bad teacher, hard to hire a good one. Stupid bureaucracies...

If a student blames his teacher for that, it might me true, it might be false. Again, teachers are physically able to do that. Some are rotten and corrupt.

As for the last part, that's true.

How the hell did we let Reagan and Bush Senior run this country for SIXTEEN YEARS!?

That's twelve years, but I can see how you got sixteen. Time seems to lag when we have a bad leader.

Of course. The Indian Nazi government was bad. Anyone that fails to see that, or not hold that opinion, does not deserve to be in school.
Indian Nazi government??? Ha ha. Very funny. Show me proof that Ghandi led India against a Nazi government.

Left or right? Goddamn I guess we libertarians, socialists, fascists, and anarchists just don't exist in that oh-so-perfect left-right spectrum.
Yay, socialists!!!!!!!!

That's twelve years, but I can see how you got sixteen. Time seems to lag when we have a bad leader.


Thank you for the correction, but when you look back, it seems like they did 16 years of damage in those 12.

Thank you for the correction, but when you look back, it seems like they did 16 years of damage in those 12.

Only 16?

Eh. I didn't mean to imply the damage has stopped.
They just aren't presidents anymore.
Why do our presidents seem to be sucking harder and harder? Is that just me? I thought Clinton was okay, but damn. The graph of success of republican presidents in particular has been doing a nose dive toward hell.

South Islands - please tell me that you're only joking. All people are allowed to believe what they wish to believe. There should be absolutely no bias taught in public schools. If you want to have an issue with far-right bias in teaching, target Christian private schools. In public schools, students should be taught to think for themselves; they should not be programmed with ANY agenda. If people were allowed to actually think for themselves, there would likely be LESS conservatism, just by default.

Odd. I read the question in the OP as 'what would you do?', not 'what should you do?'. I think we can all agree that we would do our best to remove bias altogether from the classroom. However, I don't think this is possible. Now, I'm a 'leftist/progressive/socialist' type, so my bias would be in that direction, and no matter how hard I try to be fair and balanced, I would still end up teaching with a leftist bias. That's why I picked 'left' in the poll.

Mind you, I would probably end up teaching something very technical, so the concept of political bias wouldn't have much to do with the subject material, so your kids ar probably safe with me.:)

Yay, socialists!!!!!!!!

DAMN YOU commies/socialists!!! :upyours: :D

I say neither. Because BOTH right and left are wrong. ;) :D

DAMN YOU commies/socialists!!! :upyours: :D

I say neither. Because BOTH right and left are wrong. ;) :D
quick, name some centrist views!

Students should be able to form their own arguments and opinions instead of adopting the views of others...so neither.

quick, name some centrist views!

For one Abortion shouldnt be illegal, because itis a personal choice.
Government should be limited in what it does in our lives, for instance it should be involved in transportation, protection(military, police and other emergency services), involved in that our childern should be provided education or an equal chance at it, making sure that the laws set up in the constitution are not broken.

I'd be the devils advocate. I'd always take an opposite position to the student I'm dealing with, so as to make the student think.

Devils advocate is not nessesary when we all hold the right opinions and views.

And some people simply don't know logic and reasoning. People need to tell them the proper thoughts.
:rolleyes:
Some people should not be put in any sort of authority position, or allowed to exert undo influence on youth, or even allowed to breed.

I'd be the devils advocate. I'd always take an opposite position to the student I'm dealing with, so as to make the student think.

Yes, but a lot of people are stupid, yet cunning. I know quite a few people who would calmly switch sides within two or three exchanges.

Objectivity SHOULD NOT be taught!

We would get people with Nazi or Conservative or Capitalist ideals!

Imagine! A society of Nazi Conservative Capitalists! The Horror!
What about the Commie-Nazis!:eek: *cookie to anyone that gets the ref*

:rolleyes:
Some people should not be put in any sort of authority position, or allowed to exert undo influence on youth, or even allowed to breed.
Well my social studies teacher last year had a left-bi-ist, but he said that he did and told us that we were meant to makes choices for ourselves.

:rolleyes:
Some people should not be put in any sort of authority position, or allowed to exert undo influence on youth, or even allowed to breed.

People that believe in conservativism and Capitalism?

What about the Commie-Nazis!:eek: *cookie to anyone that gets the ref*

McBain on the Simspons. *Recieves cookie.*

People that believe in conservativism and Capitalism?
No, you.

I put "neither" but I wish to clarify what I mean by "bias."

One is biased when one privileges one's own views in a way that treats opposing views unfairly, e.g. by setting up easily defeated straw men... or, for a teacher, "punishing" students who disagree with you.

However, treating students fairly and avoiding bias does not mean that one must pretend to an "objective" standpoint that does not, in all likelihood, exist. Indeed, to pretend to objectivity is to invite your own bias to intrude without your realizing it.

I prefer that teachers feel comfortable expressing "partisan" views--that is, that where facts/perspectives are disputed, they present a coherent version of their "best guess" as to what the truth is, with accompanying arguments and explanations. To be fair, however--which is not the same as "objective"--they should also be honest about the weaknesses in their arguments, and the best arguments of opposing parties. They should also welcome well-thought challenges from students.

This is how I teach (university, not high school), and I have never been accused of bias. Indeed, students who are my ideological/intellectual opponents seem to genuinely enjoy the challenging spirit of debate that my classroom generates... and being that some of them have been among my best students, whatever unconscious biases I may have do not seem to be translated into their grades.