NationStates Jolt Archive

Was 170 years ago today that Texas declared it's independence from the motherland. No I'm not talking England either.

http://www.lsjunction.com/docs/tdoi.htm

Santa Anna was pounding the Alamo. Things didn't look good for Texas. Who would have thought that at the battle of Jacinto Santa Anna would get his ass handed to him. Forever changing the political and geographical map of N. America.

http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batsanjacinto.htm

What would it have been like if Santa Anna would have won?


ps: I know I misspelled the headline.... :cool:

I live in Texas and I didnt even remember this, nor was anyword of it spoken in my school!

Is that why TCM is showing the Alamo tonight?

'Tis a proud day for me. I am Texan first, American second.

'Tis a proud day for me. I am Texan first, American second.
You Texans are all the same :p

'Tis a proud day for me. I am Texan first, American second.

That is what people in Quebec say too, until they start asking for money at least.

What type of government did the Independent State of Texas have?

Was it like the US one at they time or a dictatorial one?

Also, do Texans consider themselves as culturally different from other Americans?

Are there any political groups that advocate Texan independence?

You Texans are all the same :p
He must be from west texas... Up here in Dallas area we are a jumble of people from all over the Unites States, and I bet you can take a wild guess where I am from.

I live in Texas and I didnt even remember this, nor was anyword of it spoken in my school!

Its a State Holiday no less, I used to get it off all the time when I worked for the Texas State Government.

What type of government did the Independent State of Texas have?

Was it like the US one at they time or a dictatorial one?

Also, do Texans consider themselves as culturally different from other Americans?

Are there any political groups that advocate Texan independence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas

Its a State Holiday no less, I used to get it off all the time when I worked for the Texas State Government.
We had five tests... not much of a holiday. But spring break starts tomorow at 1:15(halfday) !!!

What type of government did the Independent State of Texas have?

Was it like the US one at they time or a dictatorial one?

Same as the US government, although considerably poorer.

Also, do Texans consider themselves as culturally different from other Americans?

To give a short answer.... obviously superior. (chuckle)



Are there any political groups that advocate Texan independence?

Nothing mainstream, just occasional kooks and militia type groups

heh. When I was in Europe and people asked where I was from, I'd automatically say, "Texas" instead of the U.S. :p

Yes, I did know it was independence day today. :)

Yay!

Slavery wins out over the American Napoleon!

Yay!

Slavery wins out over the American Napoleon!

I don't know if getting your ass kicked by a bunch of farmers is very Napoleonic.

I thought we exchanged Texas at the counter because it wasn't the right size.

I don't know if getting your ass kicked by a bunch of farmers is very Napoleonic.

What? You don't remember the guerillas (farmers, teachers, hunters, &c.) who handed Napoleon his men's heads on a platter? What about the Cossacks (bandits, free-livers) who harried him all the way back to France? Or the Prussians (huntsmen) and British (criminals) who broke his conscript army at Waterloo?

Also, do Texans consider themselves as culturally different from other Americans?

That used to be the case, but is rapidly changing. The majority of Texans today don't have roots here. Most of us are either recent transplants or the decendants of those who came here during massive migration that has been taking place since the late 50s/early 60s (right about the same time air conditioning became common...hmmm). Even President Bush is originally from Conneticut. He just likes to play "Texan." A lot of new commers like to play "Texan." But it's just a veneer.

I thought we exchanged Texas at the counter because it wasn't the right size.

How about you give Texas back to Mexico, Canada gives you Alberta, and we Canadians get Alaska & Hawaii.

What would it have been like if Santa Anna would have won?




"Broad, sunlit uplands."

'Tis a proud day for me. I am Texan first, American second.

Amen!

heh. When I was in Europe and people asked where I was from, I'd automatically say, "Texas" instead of the U.S.

Yes, I did know it was independence day today.

I still do that here after 14 years and 11 months in Japan.

BTW, M3rcenaries, both Ker and i are from the Houston area. I lived through the early years of the GDY invasions that Texoma Land is talking about. And yes, Bush is a GDY.

Yay freedome to enslave!

What would it have been is Santa Anna had won? Pretty much the same, the US would have invaded Mexico sooner or later under one pretext or another.

Yay freedome to enslave!

What would it have been is Santa Anna had won? Pretty much the same, the US would have invaded Mexico sooner or later under one pretext or another.

Well some say the whole settlement issue in Texas with them being mostly Americans was a roundabout way to spark a war. Although the reason most agree is when Texas and Mexico were looking at another war. Texas then looked for statehood to solve the problem of Mexican claims on it's territory. US of course agreed to statehood. Mexico laid down the gauntlet if Texas was annexed then there was a war with the US. Then of course the outcome was the fall of Mexico city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Mexico_City

The one missed opportunity in the area is the offer of The Republic of Yucatan to join with the US. Cancun would have been in American territory. If that would have happened back then I would think that Mexico would not exist today. A second Mexican-American war would have most likely broke out.

That used to be the case, but is rapidly changing. The majority of Texans today don't have roots here. Most of us are either recent transplants or the decendants of those who came here during massive migration that has been taking place since the late 50s/early 60s (right about the same time air conditioning became common...hmmm). Even President Bush is originally from Conneticut. He just likes to play "Texan." A lot of new commers like to play "Texan." But it's just a veneer.I'm glad I'm a 2nd generation Texan then. My grandparents were fakers. :p

Well some say the whole settlement issue in Texas with them being mostly Americans was a roundabout way to spark a war. Although the reason most agree is when Texas and Mexico were looking at another war. Texas then looked for statehood to solve the problem of Mexican claims on it's territory. US of course agreed to statehood. Mexico laid down the gauntlent if Texas was annexed then there was a war with the US. Then of course the outcome was the fall of Mexico city.
It was a very heated debate in the US to accept Texas when there was a claim by Mexico over the whole thing, and even more since the borders recognized by Mexico were not those claimed by Texas, and although Mexico had threatened with war it wasn't them who made the initial hostile moves. Most historians agree that the US started the war by sending troops into disputed territory. This was a calculated move by Polk who had a very aggressive expantionist policy.

Even after the initial skirmish that sparked the war a few Congressmen doubted the necessity of it, including Lincoln, by noting that it had occured, at best, in disputed territory. The USA declared war, nevertheless, Mexico reciprocated 10 days later.

What surprised the US military the most was how easy and quick Mexico fell. It doesn't look too surprising now that we know that Mexico was in a state of internal upheaval, even fighting sublevated generals at the same time as the foreign army. Not only that, but many Mexicans received the US with open arms and it was even considered by many in Mexico that joining the US would not be a bad idea. The US Congress eventually rejected the idea of total annexation.

Another interesting story is that of the Mexican Batallón de San Patricio, formed by Irish dessertors who saw what was happening in Mexico as a repetition of what was happening to Ireland at the hands of England. Many of their descendants still live in the area.

The one missed opportunity in the area is the offer of The Republic of Yucatan to join with the US. Cancun would have been in American territory. If that would have happened back then I would think that Mexico would not exist today. A second Mexican-American war would have most likely broke out.
Actually that came a few decades later. At the time Yucatán had declared itself independent from Mexico for the second or third time and was in the middle of the Mayan wars. When the white elite of Yucatán felt they were just about to lose they asked for help from other powers in exchange of annexation, including Britain, France, and the US. When they found out that a European power might get territory in the continent the US seriously thought about it, but later realized that Britain and France were not even considering the issue.

The Mayan rebels just retreated when they thought they had made their point, and Mexico took over again a few years later.

I am a Texan forever and always. Personally I already have a comprehensive plan for the secession of Texas from the Union, including military plans for regaining our former greatness (I.E. the original Boundaries of The Republic of Texas) Too bad they will never be carried out...

Yay!

Slavery wins out over the American Napoleon!
Yeah, I think the only manner in which General Santa Anna was a Napoleon was in his general pompous attitude. He didn't have the military successes of a Napoleon against other states, nor did he conquer the vast bulk of a continent. He never showed any tactical or strategic brilliance, and was routinely defeated by smaller, less powerful forces. Namely the Texans and General Scott.

You texans crack me up.:p

I am a Texan forever and always. Personally I already have a comprehensive plan for the secession of Texas from the Union, including military plans for regaining our former greatness (I.E. the original Boundaries of The Republic of Texas) Too bad they will never be carried out...
Oh, really? I hope they don't clash with my plan to regain the Mexican 1821 borders. They don't seem to be going anywhere soon, though.

Sometimes I envy Texans. Here it's considered sort of odd to show any excessive state pride. Since I have no faith at all in the US, Michigan gets my patriotism, but people seem to think it's a bit odd. When I was in Iraq most people had US flags in the top of their helmets, but the only people who had state flags were a few Texans and me.

I live in Texas and I didnt even remember this, nor was anyword of it spoken in my school!

Is Texas History no longer a required high school subject? It was when I lived there, but there was no way of not knowing about it because I lived right next to the San Jacinto battlefield.

Sometimes I envy Texans. Here it's considered sort of odd to show any excessive state pride. Since I have no faith at all in the US, Michigan gets my patriotism, but people seem to think it's a bit odd. When I was in Iraq most people had US flags in the top of their helmets, but the only people who had state flags were a few Texans and me.

the yoopers have a bit of nationalism going for them. as does the entire state of wisconsin. but they don't seem to care about the state flags per se, probably because most state flags are just silly.

He must be from west texas...

Nope! But my family has been here since long before the Republic. I'm a very proud Texan. From the NE part (Cass County, specifically) and live near Houston now.

Although I live in New York now, I will always be a proud Texan!

Heres to the largest state in the union!

*I know somebodies going to mention Alaska now. Please. Alaska was created as the largest state in the union, to cure the Texans of their egos. It didn't work*

Sometimes I envy Texans. Here it's considered sort of odd to show any excessive state pride. Since I have no faith at all in the US, Michigan gets my patriotism, but people seem to think it's a bit odd. When I was in Iraq most people had US flags in the top of their helmets, but the only people who had state flags were a few Texans and me.
So, did you find that pleasant peninsula yet?

the yoopers have a bit of nationalism going for them. as does the entire state of wisconsin. but they don't seem to care about the state flags per se, probably because most state flags are just silly.

Yeah, and we got caught up in that unfortunate trend of having a crest on a blue background. Maryland has a nice flag, but most states have crap flags.

Alaska was created as the largest state in the union

Yep ... and who the fuck wants to live there? It's like Canada lite. Everyone lives along the southern border because nobody wants to wake up every morning with the snot frozen in their nose.

Not to mention at least 100 songs have been written about Texas. How many about Alaska?

Texas gave the world ZZ Top, Buddy Holly, and Janis Joplin. What did Alaska give us? Jewel. Blargh.

I say give Alaska back to the Russians and annex Cuba as a Texas county.

Yeah, and we got caught up in that unfortunate trend of having a crest on a blue background. Maryland has a nice flag, but most states have crap flags.

i want to know what the state's were thinking on most of them - it's like every flag was designed by a committee. a committee which lacked any competent designers for some reason.