NationStates Jolt Archive


Career mothers face uphill battle.

Eutrusca
02-03-2006, 15:24
COMMENTARY: Women who have careers and children often have a tough time. Pre-school children with working mothers often have a rough time as well. My younger son and his wife are working toward the point where she can work from home, and are almost there. She has reached the point in Arbonne (http://www.arbonne.com/index_home.asp) where she qualifies for one of their signature white Mercedes,' and will soon quit her job with a large corporation. This is one solution, although there are others. Your thoughts on this ( particularly if you're a working mom! )?


Stretched to Limit, Women Stall March to Work (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/02/business/02work.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin)


By EDUARDO PORTER
Published: March 2, 2006
For four decades, the number of women entering the workplace grew at a blistering pace, fostering a powerful cultural and economic transformation of American society. But since the mid-1990's, the growth in the percentage of adult women working outside the home has stalled, even slipping somewhat in the last five years and leaving it at a rate well below that of men.

While the change has been under way for a while, it was initially viewed by many experts as simply a pause in the longer-term movement of women into the work force. But now, social scientists are engaged in a heated debate over whether the gender revolution at work may be over.

Is this shift evidence for the popular notion that many mothers are again deciding that they prefer to stay at home and take care of their children?

Maybe, but many researchers are coming to a different conclusion: women are not choosing to stay out of the labor force because of a change in attitudes, they say. Rather, the broad reconfiguration of women's lives that allowed most of them to pursue jobs outside the home appears to be hitting some serious limits.

Since the 1960's, tens of millions of women rejiggered bits of their lives, extracting more time to accommodate jobs and careers from every nook and cranny of the day. They married later and had fewer children. They turned to labor-saving machines and paid others to help handle household work; they persuaded the men in their lives to do more chores.

At the peak in 2000, some 77 percent of women in the prime ages of 25 to 54 were in the work force.

Further changes, though, have been proving harder to achieve, stretching the daily challenge facing many mothers at nearly all income levels toward a breaking point.

"What happened on the road to gender equality?" said Suzanne M. Bianchi, a sociologist at the University of Maryland. "A lot of work happened."

Consider Cathie Watson-Short, 37, a former business development executive at high-technology companies in Silicon Valley. She pines to go back to work, but has not figured out how to mesh work with caring for her three daughters.

"Most of us thought we would work and have kids, at least that was what we were brought up thinking we would do — no problem," Ms. Watson-Short said. "But really we were kind of duped. None of us realized how hard it is."

Professor Bianchi, who studies time-use surveys done by the Census Bureau and others, has concluded that contrary to popular belief, the broad movement of women into the paid labor force did not come at the expense of their children. Not only did fathers spend more time with children, but working mothers, she found, spent an average of 12 hours a week on child care in 2003, an hour more than stay-at-home mothers did in 1975.

Instead, mothers with children at home gained the time for outside work by taking it from other parts of their day. They also worked more over all. Professor Bianchi found that employed mothers, on average, worked at home and on the job a total of 15 hours more a week and slept 3.6 fewer hours than those who were not employed.

"Perhaps time has been compressed as far as it will go," she suggested. "Kids take time, and work takes time. The conflicts didn't go away."

Indeed, the research suggests that women may have already hit a wall in the amount of work that they can pack into a week. From 1965 to 1995, Professor Bianchi found, the average time mothers spent doing paid work jumped to almost 26 hours a week from 9 hours. The time spent on housework fell commensurately, to 19 hours from 32.

Then the trend stalled. From 1995 to 2003, mothers, on average, spent about the same amount of time on household chores, but their work outside the home fell by almost four hours a week.

"Looking toward the future," said Francine D. Blau, a professor of economics at Cornell University, "one can question how much further increases in women's participation can be had without more reallocation of household work."

This is having broad repercussions for the economy. Today, about 75 percent of women 25 to 54 years old are either working or actively seeking a job, up from around 40 percent in the late 1950's. That expansion helped fuel economic growth for decades.

But the previous trend flattened in the early 1990's. And since 2000, the participation rate for women has declined somewhat; it remains far below the 90 percent rate for men in the same age range.

[ This article is two pages long. To read the rest of the article, go here (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/02/business/02work.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&th&emc=th). ]
Von Witzleben
02-03-2006, 15:27
Well, your daughter in law at least has a husband. Single mothers on the other hand have an even harder time.
Eutrusca
02-03-2006, 15:31
Well, your daughter in law at least has a husband. Single mothers on the other hand have an even harder time.
Indeed! Two of my daughters have been single mothers, and one of them still is. The rest of the family tries to help her as much as possible. Fortunately for her ( in some ways ), she's an RN ( Registered Nurse ) so she seldom needs financial assistance.
The Nazz
02-03-2006, 15:37
There are a lot of challenges--probably the biggest is that for a lot of men, women are still supposed to fill their traditional gender roles while working outside the home. It's a struggle for me to make sure that I pull my weight around the house--fortunately, my girlfriend and I both have a high tolerance for sloppiness, so it's not like she's running around behind me picking up, and I've never been one to bitch about doing certain types of housework--laundry, taking out the trash, cleaning litterboxes, etc--so it works out. Plus, we work together, so we know what the other's going through--no way to play the "I work harder than you do outside the home" card.
Bottle
02-03-2006, 15:42
Um, forgive me, but does this come as a surprise to ANYBODY?
Von Witzleben
02-03-2006, 15:42
Indeed! Two of my daughters have been single mothers, and one of them still is. The rest of the family tries to help her as much as possible. Fortunately for her ( in some ways ), she's an RN ( Registered Nurse ) so she seldom needs financial assistance.
The problems single parents face seem to be universal in western societies. For single mothers in particular. And they also seem to be at least part of the reason why the birthrate in western countries is at such a low.
Von Witzleben
02-03-2006, 15:44
Um, forgive me, but does this come as a surprise to ANYBODY?
No. Absolutely not.
Eutrusca
02-03-2006, 15:46
There are a lot of challenges--probably the biggest is that for a lot of men, women are still supposed to fill their traditional gender roles while working outside the home. It's a struggle for me to make sure that I pull my weight around the house--fortunately, my girlfriend and I both have a high tolerance for sloppiness, so it's not like she's running around behind me picking up, and I've never been one to bitch about doing certain types of housework--laundry, taking out the trash, cleaning litterboxes, etc--so it works out. Plus, we work together, so we know what the other's going through--no way to play the "I work harder than you do outside the home" card.
Sounds like you two are well-matched. :)
The Nazz
02-03-2006, 15:47
Um, forgive me, but does this come as a surprise to ANYBODY?
Nope. I've said it elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating--there is no greater inherent advantage to building a career in the US than being a white male.
Eutrusca
02-03-2006, 15:48
The problems single parents face seem to be universal in western societies. For single mothers in particular. And they also seem to be at least part of the reason why the birthrate in western countries is at such a low.
I tend to agree. Each of my married children has two children of their own, but the one daughter still single has just the one child. My older son is divorced and has none.
The Nazz
02-03-2006, 15:49
Sounds like you two are well-matched. :)
We are. We've been together five and a half years, which is almost as long as I was married, but these have certainly been happier years.
Eutrusca
02-03-2006, 15:50
Nope. I've said it elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating--there is no greater inherent advantage to building a career in the US than being a white male.
Sad, but probably true, although not quite as true as it was say, 20 years ago.
Eutrusca
02-03-2006, 15:52
We are. We've been together five and a half years, which is almost as long as I was married, but these have certainly been happier years.
Good! Things are tough enough without adding conflict at home to the list. :(
Bottle
02-03-2006, 15:55
No. Absolutely not.
I'm just amazed at a lot of the "news" stories running these days about women and working and motherhood. All these dingbats look at their statistics and say, "Hmm, women are 'opting out' and not advancing in their own careers...gee, why could that be?" There are all these lovely pieces about how *shock* it's a little bit difficult to be a working woman these days, and all these fuzzy-headed writers trying to puzzle out why women might be getting a bit tired of the non-stop, thankless series of lose-lose situations that are thrust at them.

Golly, women are having a hard time getting ahead professionally? Working mothers are facing some problems? Stop the goddam presses!

Forgive me, but I have trouble believing that men really are this clueless. If there actually are still people who need to be TOLD this kind of shit, and if those people are considered competant enough to vote or drive cars or own guns, then we're in serious trouble.
Von Witzleben
02-03-2006, 16:05
I'm just amazed at a lot of the "news" stories running these days about women and working and motherhood. All these dingbats look at their statistics and say, "Hmm, women are 'opting out' and not advancing in their own careers...gee, why could that be?" There are all these lovely pieces about how *shock* it's a little bit difficult to be a working woman these days, and all these fuzzy-headed writers trying to puzzle out why women might be getting a bit tired of the non-stop, thankless series of lose-lose situations that are thrust at them.

Golly, women are having a hard time getting ahead professionally? Working mothers are facing some problems? Stop the goddam presses!

Forgive me, but I have trouble believing that men really are this clueless. If there actually are still people who need to be TOLD this kind of shit, and if those people are considered competant enough to vote or drive cars or own guns, then we're in serious trouble.
Maybe so. But this way the problem at least gets adressed. Every now and then.
Von Witzleben
02-03-2006, 16:07
I tend to agree. Each of my married children has two children of their own, but the one daughter still single has just the one child. My older son is divorced and has none.
And because of that many people don't even consider having children at all. Especially women. Since they often are forced to choose between family or a career.
Eutrusca
02-03-2006, 16:10
And because of that many people don't even consider having children at all. Especially women. Since they often are forced to choose between family or a career.
Knowing what I know now, I would have worked two jobs if that's what it took to give my wife the option of staying home to take care of our kids, which is something she wanted to do anyway. I hate "forced choices" like "children or job!" :(
Eutrusca
02-03-2006, 16:13
I have trouble believing that men really are this clueless.
Most of us aren't. It's just easier to ignore the problem unless someone objects most strenuously. :(
Von Witzleben
02-03-2006, 16:14
Knowing what I know now, I would have worked two jobs if that's what it took to give my wife the option of staying home to take care of our kids, which is something she wanted to do anyway. I hate "forced choices" like "children or job!" :(
Yeah. Me too. Well, at least the politicians finally are starting to get that too. At least in the Netherlands and Germany. I don't know about the rest.
Von Witzleben
02-03-2006, 16:16
Most of us aren't. It's just easier to ignore the problem unless someone objects most strenuously. :(
The only ones which are clueless are the politicians. Both male and female. They are the ones that should be adressing the problems and come up with ways to clear the problems that exist.
Eutrusca
02-03-2006, 16:20
The only ones which are clueless are the politicians. Both male and female. They are the ones that should be adressing the problems and come up with ways to clear the problems that exist.
Why? Is that an appropriate function of government? I definitely believe in "equal pay for equal work," but why should goverenment become even more involved in our lives by making even more of our choices for us?
Bottle
02-03-2006, 16:22
Most of us aren't. It's just easier to ignore the problem unless someone objects most strenuously. :(
No offense, but that really bothers me. That's like somebody saying that it's easy to ignore Jim Crow laws, unless the blacks object most strenuously. That borders on blaming the victim, by implying that they ought to speak louder if they expect anybody to care that they're being abused.

Nobody should have to "object most strenuously" to make you angry about the injustice around you. If you see 51% of your country's population being discriminated against, nobody should have to scream in your face to make you do something about it. If the majority of men actually need to be reminded to give a shit about the women in their lives, then we're pretty well fucked to begin with.
Sinuhue
02-03-2006, 16:28
The problems single parents face seem to be universal in western societies. For single mothers in particular. And they also seem to be at least part of the reason why the birthrate in western countries is at such a low.
I wonder if this comes with a lack of community? Single parents have it hard all over the world, but in many cases, family members are still close by (whereas many Westerners tend to move apart), and the community as a whole helps out. Not in all cases of course...but I remember in Bolivia, a man telling me, "Even if the woman is a bad mother, drinking, spending her time with many men, letting her child run around alone...even then, the child has a good family, because we all take care of her."

In this town I currently live in, for example, there is still a very tight-knit system of family and community. I would guess that the rates of single-parenthood are lower here that in other places, but I could be wrong. In any case, people here really take care of one another. When someone is sick, a neighbour will come, wash dishes, make food for the kids, or just keep that person company. It's almost *gasp* aboriginal of them:)
Von Witzleben
02-03-2006, 16:28
Why? Is that an appropriate function of government? I definitely believe in "equal pay for equal work," but why should goverenment become even more involved in our lives by making even more of our choices for us?
No. Not making your choices for you. But to combat the often blatant discrimination young parents or single mothers face.
You wanna live here? And you have children? Sorry. Children are noisy. Find something else.
I'm sorry Sandra. We can't hire you. We are looking for someone flexible and you have a pre-school child. We can't depend on you.
Sinuhue
02-03-2006, 16:30
There are a lot of challenges--probably the biggest is that for a lot of men, women are still supposed to fill their traditional gender roles while working outside the home. It's a struggle for me to make sure that I pull my weight around the house--fortunately, my girlfriend and I both have a high tolerance for sloppiness, so it's not like she's running around behind me picking up, and I've never been one to bitch about doing certain types of housework--laundry, taking out the trash, cleaning litterboxes, etc--so it works out. Plus, we work together, so we know what the other's going through--no way to play the "I work harder than you do outside the home" card.
My husband and I have had a lot of fights about this over the years...the cleaning, cooking and 'my job is more important than yours'. He comes from a very macho culture. Well, all I had to do is get desperately ill, and have him be the one to watch the kids, clean the house, and cook the meals:). It nearly drove him insane...unlike you, he's an anal-retentive clean freak, but he soon came to the conclusion that kids=mess, and learned to live with it.
Von Witzleben
02-03-2006, 16:30
I wonder if this comes with a lack of community?
Thats probably also one of the reasons.
The Nazz
02-03-2006, 16:31
No offense, but that really bothers me. That's like somebody saying that it's easy to ignore Jim Crow laws, unless the blacks object most strenuously. That borders on blaming the victim, by implying that they ought to speak louder if they expect anybody to care that they're being abused.

Nobody should have to "object most strenuously" to make you angry about the injustice around you. If you see 51% of your country's population being discriminated against, nobody should have to scream in your face to make you do something about it. If the majority of men actually need to be reminded to give a shit about the women in their lives, then we're pretty well fucked to begin with.
I think casual sexism is even more prevalent that casual racism--and that there are a lot of women who aid it by continuing to buy into traditional gender roles. Men ought to be more observant about it, and ought to do more to work toward equality between the sexes, but the stereotypes are reinforced in entertainment and in society. I wish I could say I was amazed by the recent poll that had something like a quarter of the people surveyed--both sexes, remember--saying that they thought being POTUS was a man's job, and that they'd never vote for a woman. That's frightening.

But if the recent abortion politics has shown anything, it's that there are a lot of men who still believe a woman's primary capacity is breeder, and anything else she does is superfluous.
Carnivorous Lickers
02-03-2006, 16:43
I still cant believe the energy and effort my wife puts into the family.

She works 30 to 40 hours per week from home. She fits work in when the 2 yr old is napping and the others are at school. Then she works several hours at night after dinner. She doesnt "have" to work. But her pay makes a big difference to us and our future.
We dont have any expected roles here, though she is better at helping the kids with their homework. We both contibute to the cooking, cleaning and shopping and all the other household functions.

So- yeah- three kids, all doing well. And a house in good order. With a well paying job on top.

I have my cake and I'm eating it too.