NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm curious to see the answer. Please vote from the poll and explain why you picked the choice you did, but feel free to mention any others that pop into your mind.

I made a simple mistake in the poll question. The question is still which one you MOST respect.

And for fun, why not state which one you least respect (and why, of course)? :p

whoa!
what about us artists out there?

Nurses for me. Long hours, low pay and abusive patients aren't compensated for by cute uniforms:)

Worst - unscrupulous people in any trade (workers who rip off old ladies etc)

I most respect Mathematicians. The brave people who set out to answer some of the most difficult questions posed to mankind. The artists who create beautiful equations that conect two seemingly unrelated things. Mathematicians find truth in it's purest form, and for that, I respect them, because I value truth above all else.

I made a simple mistake in the poll question. The question is still which one you MOST respect.

Well done! *applauds you* :D

Clerg.. uh, I mean labourers, definately! I can't see why anyone would make an active choice to become a maid, for example. It's just another way to make ends meet, only just barely, and you'll have a broken back at 48, and won't be able to afford the latest Toyota, and so on.

Well done! *applauds you* :D

lol. Why?

Clerg.. uh, I mean labourers, definately! I can't see why anyone would make an active choice to become a maid, for example. It's just another way to make ends meet, only just barely, and you'll have a broken back at 48, and won't be able to afford the latest Toyota, and so on.

Hm, interesting.

whoa!
what about us artists out there?

Now now, as a wannabe musician myself, we both know that artists don't earn money. :p

Teachers - low pay and horrible job managing all those children.

LAST = Pollies.

Now now, as a wannabe musician myself, we both know that artists don't earn money. :p

Sure can't argue with that.
But artist are the true visionaries.
We have the idea's for science to build.

None of the above, i'd say the emergency services gain the most respect from me, low pay but high risk jobs.

Actually, sod my own argument.
I respect firemen.

No paint brush will kill me. Unless...

lol. Why?

Well, you set out to create a pretty interesting survey, but buggered it up completely (:p) in the headline. I thought you'd made yourself well deserved of a roaring laughter, so there you are. :)

Out of that list I most respect educators, and least respect soldiers.

Not that it is soldiers fault, or that I don't see the need for them. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the govermnet and the armed forces. For taking perfectly well ajusted kids, and turning them in to complete wankers.

When an ordaniry solder gets de-mobbed, there should be a period of de/re-conditioning, so that they can come back into society as normal people, and not trained killers.

I respect the entire medical profession. Those who dedicate their lives to helping others get well. Not the money hungry,apathetic, ones who are thinking about their golf score while they are asking you to turn your head and cough, but the ones who truly care about peoples wellness. Pediatric nurses especially...I cant imagine working around sick children day in day out. :(

damn you, I made a wrong choice thanks to you, I put politicians (that I respect least)

I most respect educators, and least respect athletes, not because I don't recognize the skill it takes to be a professional athlete, but because I view them as being the least useful. I view educators as being the most useful, so I respect them most.

No "other" option?

The profession I respect the most are nurses. They have to put up with crap from both doctors and patients, work their a**es off and receive a pittance for it.

I have no special respect for any of the professions mentioned in the poll.

Well, you set out to create a pretty interesting survey, but buggered it up completely (:p) in the headline. I thought you'd made yourself well deserved of a roaring laughter, so there you are. :)

Eh, I have a cold. I'm not thinking perfectly. Sorry.

damn you, I made a wrong choice thanks to you, I put politicians (that I respect least)

Not my fault you can't read bold text. :p

No "other" option?


No, because I specifically wanted to see out of this list and didn't want 70% of the votes being the "other" option.

No, because I specifically wanted to see out of this list and didn't want 70% of the votes being the "other" option.

I did notice there was no "Myrth" option. :)

No, because I specifically wanted to see out of this list and didn't want 70% of the votes being the "other" option.

you should at least have put a "none" option in, then :p

I most respect the soldiers out there, considering the amount of work and exhausting hours they have to endure on the field. From the soldiers, the Corpsmen are who I really, really respect. They risk their lives trying to save another through barrages of enemy bullets.

plasterer..has anyone try to plaster a wall ???

I was tied between politicians and soldiers for most respect (Presidents like to point out their not politicians, so logically they get no share of the respect for them). Politicians do one of the hardest jobs and get the most trouble (even when they're actually doing the right thing). Soldiers get my respect for doing something nearly as dangerous as driving on Western Australian roads.

My least respect is for used cars salesmen and drug dealers; but since they aren't on the list Tradesmen/Labourer/Clerks. Its not that I disrespect them; simply that they aren't people that capture my heart or mind.

engineers, architects, designers, creative artists, all more then those listed so i pict labourers/tecnicians. all though educators are probably most important of the options given, them and doctors i suppose. but those i mentioned you didn't list even more so. also scientiests.

especialy those finding/creating tecnologies to build infrastructure to support our comfort zones in ways that DON"T require trashing the environment which the very basics of all existence ultimately come from, like air, food, water and materials to build shelter.

=^^=
.../\...

Looking at that list again, and considering the question above it (I know it's wrong, but I'm still going to answer it, just try and stop me! :p ), I'd have to say the profession I respect least of all are soldiers.
Taking money for killing people just doesn't rank very high in my book.

Closely followed by professional athletes, for sheer uselessness.

Of the list, Educators, as it's the one I can twist easily, and with the right reforms, wouldn't need twisting :p ie, instead of teaching people what to think, they taught people HOW to think, like Plato. As it stands, even regardless, they still perform the most important function, in my view.


As for least... I don't know, and I forgot the list. I might give it later.

FYI, due to the mistake in wording, I voted Journalists, whom I actually respect the least.

Looking at that list again, and considering the question above it (I know it's wrong, but I'm still going to answer it, just try and stop me! :p )

Well, originally I had included both questions in the OP, but the "most respect" was what I wanted to see on the poll.

Gah. I'm not having much luck. This is the third time i've tried to start this thread.

FYI, due to the mistake in wording, I voted Journalists, whom I actually respect the least.

And why might that be?

(just curious. I took a journalism course at university, and most people were extremely rude when I asked for interviews and the like. I don't understand the animosity.)

And why might that be?

(just curious. I took a journalism course at university, and most people were extremely rude when I asked for interviews and the like. I don't understand the animosity.)

Well, surely it'd be because of the negative image of journalists as tabloid paparazzi who sensationalise and trivialise everything, making a story to sell papers than to report facts.

Well, surely it'd be because of the negative image of journalists as tabloid paparazzi who sensationalise and trivialise everything, making a story to sell papers than to report facts.

I guess, but considering I was doing a report on child soldiers in the third world, I don't see how that was really relevant in my case.

Teachers.

Most respect: Soldiers
Least Respect: Lawyers & Professional Atheletes

Cabara, do you think that all we do is kill people? Look at africa, we are the only medical resource that they have. I dont know, i've been on three deployments to afghanistan and i have never shot a man. Killing the enemy is not our number one priority. Our number one is helping the local population. We only kill the enemy to prevent them from doing harm to us and/or the local population so that we can fulfil our number one priority. I am worried that some poeple believe that we are just mindless killing machines. We have families that we love just like everyone else. I think that most people that believe that have never met a solder, airmen, sailor or marine in their lives and just believe the stereotype given to us by hollywood. And just a sidenote, a soldier is some one who is in the army. This excludes airmen, sailors and marines.

Looking at that list again, and considering the question above it (I know it's wrong, but I'm still going to answer it, just try and stop me! :p ), I'd have to say the profession I respect least of all are soldiers.
Taking money for killing people just doesn't rank very high in my book.

Closely followed by professional athletes, for sheer uselessness.


I think you forget that you and I and everyone else on here are protected by them. Do you know what a soldier gets paid? Its a joke.

Cabara, do you think that all we do is kill people? Look at africa, we are the only medical resource that they have. I dont know, i've been on three deployments to afghanistan and i have never shot a man. Killing the enemy is not our number one priority. Our number one is helping the local population. We only kill the enemy to prevent them from doing harm to us and/or the local population so that we can fulfil our number one priority. I am worried that some poeple believe that we are just mindless killing machines. We have families that we love just like everyone else. I think that most people that believe that have never met a solder, airmen, sailor or marine in their lives and just believe the stereotype given to us by hollywood. And just a sidenote, a soldier is some one who is in the army. This excludes airmen, sailors and marines.

No, I don't think all you do is kill. If I thought that, I would have no respect whatsoever for any person who chose this profession. As it is, I tend to have a little less than, say, for a nurse, but there's still some left.

I do realise that armies and therefore soldiers can be employed to actually help the population. However, this is not why countries have armies. The first purpose of any army is to be a combat force, thus killing enemy soldiers or civilians, depending on the specific case.
If the first purpose of an army was medical assistance, the Red Cross and Doctors without Borders might do a better job.

I don't believe that soldiers are mindless, or killing machines (although I've met a few that made me seriously doubt that position). But that doesn't change the fact that they are trained to kill, and that killing or destruction is the first purpose of their profession. If you were lucky enough never to have killed, good for you. Yet when you joined you agreed to eventually shoot at people and kill them. I can't respect a decision like that.

I think you forget that you and I and everyone else on here are protected by them. Do you know what a soldier gets paid? Its a joke.

Protected from what?

Since all of my role models have been systamitcally destroyed other than the tradesmen/laborers, they are the only one's left. Someday, there will be none.

Do you think that a country goes to war to kill people? No. It goes to war to complete its objectives. You can't fight a war where the purpose is to kill. The Marine Corps doctrine specifically states that we are to bypass the enemy to complete our stated objectives, not trap and kill the enemy.

Protected from what?


Well lets see. I know that if my city were the target of a bomb or bio war or a flood or hurricane etc, the military would be dispatched and attempt to save people, get them out. Who do they send to rescue civilian hostages? Civilians? I've seen pictures of soldiers carrying children in their arms and on their backs to get them out of hostile territory. They dont just "kill people for money" (your words not mine), they also save people for money.

Do you know what a soldier gets paid? Its a joke.

Over here, I believe for an enlisted soldier, it's some $70,000 a year for overseas service (hazard pay and all that), plus benefits. More than i'll ever earn.

Protected from what?
Are you kidding? You have no idea how good you have it in the U.S. If you were ever to visit a place like africa then you would know what you are being protected from. Our enemies stated goal is to bring an end to the U.S.'s existence or at the very least status of superpower. If we are to decline into a state of existence as is very common in africa then i would like to see how much you ask what we are protecting you from.

Over here, I believe for an enlisted soldier, it's some $70,000 a year for overseas service (hazard pay and all that), plus benefits. More than i'll ever earn.
You're not going to earn more than 70,000 Austrailian dollars in your entire life?! :eek:

Over here, I believe for an enlisted soldier, it's some $70,000 a year for overseas service (hazard pay and all that), plus benefits. More than i'll ever earn.

I'm sure Captains, Generals and hgh ranking officers here make that too. But the average soldier makes squat. Like $2000 or less per month. I had a bf in the Army and he got $ 1450 per month plus housing. Thats$17400 per year.

Kanabia, you are severely misinformed. Base pay for an E-1 is about 20,000. With combat hazard pay i would estimate about 22,000 to 25,000. At best a third of what you say.

Are you kidding? You have no idea how good you have it in the U.S. If you were ever to visit a place like africa then you would know what you are being protected from. Our enemies stated goal is to bring an end to the U.S.'s existence or at the very least status of superpower. If we are to decline into a state of existence as is very common in africa then i would like to see how much you ask what we are protecting you from.

Take a look at my location.... I'm nowhere near the US.

I'm sure Captains, Generals and hgh ranking officers here make that too. But the average soldier makes squat. Like $2000 or less per month. I had a bf in the Army and he got $ 1450 per month plus housing. Thats$17400 per year.

I can see why the most disadvantaged become soldiers in the USA, then. I was talking about that wage for an enlisted soldier (not officer) here.

You're not going to earn more than 70,000 Austrailian dollars in your entire life?! :eek:

If I died tomorrow, it would be around the range of $15,000... :p

Do you think that a country goes to war to kill people? No. It goes to war to complete its objectives. You can't fight a war where the purpose is to kill. The Marine Corps doctrine specifically states that we are to bypass the enemy to complete our stated objectives, not trap and kill the enemy.

Of course it fights for its objectives. Unless it sets out to fight a "total war", with the objective to exterminate the enemy entirely. Has been tried and done in the past, and not only by Germany, either.

Sure you are to bypass the enemy, it saves resources. But honestly, what do you think a soldier gets a gun for? What do you think tanks are build for?
An army is used to force through the objective of one country by using violence against another.

Kanabia, you are severely misinformed. Base pay for an E-1 is about 20,000. With combat hazard pay i would estimate about 22,000 to 25,000. At best a third of what you say.

I'm not American. I am from Australia.

Peechland, as an 0-2(1st Lt.) i make about 47,000 a year with combat pay.

Take a look at my location.... I'm nowhere near the US.


Then it's kind of easy for you to sit back and make statements about how the military just kills people for money. I'm sure you would welcome their presence if your country was ever attacked.

In all honesty, they are built primarily to protect troops while completing their objectives.

Well lets see. I know that if my city were the target of a bomb or bio war or a flood or hurricane etc, the military would be dispatched and attempt to save people, get them out. Who do they send to rescue civilian hostages? Civilians? I've seen pictures of soldiers carrying children in their arms and on their backs to get them out of hostile territory. They dont just "kill people for money" (your words not mine), they also save people for money.

Well, in my home country, evcuation and protecting civilian population would be the job of specific government groups. The military might occasionally be employed in an emergency situation, but it would definitely not be their first objective.

Peechland, as an 0-2(1st Lt.) i make about 47,000 a year with combat pay.


How long have you been in? You agree that soldiers dont make squat the first 5 years or so right? I guess I am saying that money certainly isnt an incentive for someone to become a soldier and risk their life for a few bucks. Good medical benefits though.....if they live long enough to use them.

Then it's kind of easy for you to sit back and make statements about how the military just kills people for money. I'm sure you would welcome their presence if your country was ever attacked.

Actually, no. It would be quite the other way around. I'd hope they'd stand down soon enough, avoiding more damage and casualties.

I have respect for many policemen, soldiers.

Actually- I respect those in many professions that do their best with good intentions, that help others, that set good examples and are good role models.

These people can be found in any profession. For some you deal with, its clear they arent in it for the money or status- they have a true desire to do whats good. There are many in all professions that are just in it for the money. I know drunken lazy firemen that put their coworkers in danger that make $60,000.00 to sit in a fire house playing video games and cards, I also know car salesmen that steer unwitting people away from lemons into cars that better suit them and their budget, even if it means a lesser commision.

So-I'll say that its the individuals who strive to be the best they can, not the profession. Its the ones that make a positive difference in people's lives that I admire.

I've been in a little over 3 years

In all honesty, they are built primarily to protect troops while completing their objectives.

Protect them by doing what, hm? Shooting those that would try to hinder your troops from completing their objectives.







I think we are slowly getting there....

damn you, I made a wrong choice thanks to you, I put politicians (that I respect least)
Yeah, me as well. D'oh!

Actually, no. It would be quite the other way around. I'd hope they'd stand down soon enough, avoiding more damage and casualties.

It's a fact that war=soldiers and war also = death. It's a sad sad fact of life. But there are a lot of soldiers who have lost their lives defending countries, both theirs and those who give them zero respect. It would be wonderful if we could live in a world where there was no need for a military, no need for any loss of lives, but thats just not how it is. So I respect soldiers for risking their lives to make sure me and my children can sleep a little better at night. For knowing if a bomb hit, that they would be bringing us water and food and taking us to safe ground. The police and fire depts dont always have enough resources to do that.

I can see why the most disadvantaged become soldiers in the USA, then. I was talking about that wage for an enlisted soldier (not officer) here.



Lets not overlook the education and training benefits that come with soldiering too. Many come out of their military service much better than they went in with some self respect and a skill. Not to mention health care.

Its an intelligent choice for many people, not just the poor.

Some kids go to college for four years, wasting time and their parent's cash partying, to get a meaningless degree in bullshit and go on to be the assistant manager at a fast food place.

Cabara, exactly. We are not out to kill enemies, but if they come to us then we will protect ourselves with our weapons. In a war like the one we are fighting in iraq, killing the enemy is actually counterintuitive. Because according to their honor system, the whole family of the individual who was killed is obligated to take up arms against the people that killed him. So we only kill when absolutely necessary.

Cabara, exactly. We are not out to kill enemies, but if they come to us then we will protect ourselves with our weapons. In a war like the one we are fighting in iraq, killing the enemy is actually counterintuitive. Because according to their honor system, the whole family of the individual who was killed is obligated to take up arms against the people that killed him. So we only kill when absolutely necessary.


Same with the British army/royal marines, they are trained to use force as a last resort only, if the enemy can be disarmed by other means then it is attempted first.

In most professions there are those who are truly dedicated and who approach their job as a calling, more than just as a means to make money. If the member of a profession is truly dedicated, here are a few I greatly respect:

* Military personnel

* Medical personnel ( doctors, nurses, emergency medical personnel, etc. )

* Emergency personnel ( police, firefighters, etc. )

* Educators

* Small business owners

* Scientists

Cabara, exactly. We are not out to kill enemies, but if they come to us then we will protect ourselves with our weapons. In a war like the one we are fighting in iraq, killing the enemy is actually counterintuitive. Because according to their honor system, the whole family of the individual who was killed is obligated to take up arms against the people that killed him. So we only kill when absolutely necessary.



Many of us count on you to protect yourselves. You have the respect and support of millions.
Dont let a few make you feel any differently.

I made a simple mistake in the poll question. The question is still which one you MOST respect.

Yes, you really made a balls up of this didn't you. How can I change my vote?

Yes, you really made a balls up of this didn't you. How can I change my vote?

*grumbles* You don't. Now go away and leave me alone :p


....maybe if I make it bigger...

Cabara, exactly. We are not out to kill enemies, but if they come to us then we will protect ourselves with our weapons. In a war like the one we are fighting in iraq, killing the enemy is actually counterintuitive. Because according to their honor system, the whole family of the individual who was killed is obligated to take up arms against the people that killed him. So we only kill when absolutely necessary.

I understand, and I understand the situation.
But you are willing to kill if you find that it's necessary in a given situation. And I don't agree with that. To me, there is no situation ever that could justify to kill another person.
And I'm neither willing nor able to respect a person for that attitude.
There's nothing to say that I wouldn't be able to respect a soldier for other qualities of his personality, but I'll never be able to respect anybody for demonstrating a willingness to kill. Sorry.

I understand, and I understand the situation.
But you are willing to kill if you find that it's necessary in a given situation. And I don't agree with that. To me, there is no situation ever that could justify to kill another person.
And I'm neither willing nor able to respect a person for that attitude.
There's nothing to say that I wouldn't be able to respect a soldier for other qualities of his personality, but I'll never be able to respect anybody for demonstrating a willingness to kill. Sorry.


If someone was threatening your life or the life of a loved one, and it was kill or be killed, would you protect yourself/loved one or stand there and let them kill you/loved one?

Are you telling me that you wouldnt kill a man if it would save the lives of 50 children? If that is true than i truly have no respect for you. Beat me to it peechland.

I understand, and I understand the situation.
But you are willing to kill if you find that it's necessary in a given situation. And I don't agree with that. To me, there is no situation ever that could justify to kill another person.
And I'm neither willing nor able to respect a person for that attitude.
There's nothing to say that I wouldn't be able to respect a soldier for other qualities of his personality, but I'll never be able to respect anybody for demonstrating a willingness to kill. Sorry.


With all due respect-keep one thing in mind- Experience might make you feel differently. I'm not saying it has to, or it will-but it might.

If someone was threatening your life or the life of a loved one, and it was kill or be killed, would you protect yourself/loved one or stand there and let them kill you/loved one?

Me, I'd let myself be killed. Would save me the trouble, eventually.
A loved one... I don't know. But better not count on me there.

Me, I'd let myself be killed. Would save me the trouble, eventually.
A loved one... I don't know. But better not count on me there.


wow Cabra.

With all due respect-keep one thing in mind- Experience might make you feel differently. I'm not saying it has to, or it will-but it might.

CL, it is experience that makes me feel this way. If I felt any other way, I'd be a murderer by now. If I felt I could compromise on that principle of mine, I would have killed someone when I was 13.

Are you telling me that you wouldnt kill a man if it would save the lives of 50 children? If that is true than i truly have no respect for you. Beat me to it peechland.

That's too hazy a question to let you come to that conclusion...

Is the man innocent, or is he holding the children to hostage? Are they in immediate danger? If the man is holding the children to hostage, is there a way to resolve the situation without violence?

In most situations, violence is not the only option.

Crap, I voted for clergymen cause I thought it was asking about the profession I least respect. Can I change my vote?

Me, I'd let myself be killed. Would save me the trouble, eventually.
A loved one... I don't know. But better not count on me there.

So you'd be happy to let a murderer get away and kill someone else, that makes you just as bad as the murderer themselves.

In most professions there are those who are truly dedicated and who approach their job as a calling, more than just as a means to make money.
That's exactly what I was thinking when reading through the poll. E.g. I was close to vote for journalists, but then I thought about the guys writing for some sleazy yellow-press rag, so, um, no.

In the end, I voted for educator. Though I have to say, I'm more talking about professors than teachers (sorry to all teachers). I guess I just really respect intelligence and knowledge, so if you have those two, paired with the ability to teach really well, you definitely have my respect. (Again, excluding the lame-ass professor regurgitating the same lecture for the past 10 years).

If someone was threatening your life or the life of a loved one, and it was kill or be killed, would you protect yourself/loved one or stand there and let them kill you/loved one?


Hypothetical questions are a total waste of time unless asked AFTER the subject has had the experience. You cant expect any accurate meaningful answer of someone- you cant ask someone what they think they would do, if they havent had the experience- and expect a true answer.

Some might swear they would kill if they were in this situation, then freeze or change their mind when it came to fruition. Others might swear they wouldnt, and then act reflexively at the moment it happened.

wow Cabra.

Don't get me wrong, I would still try and fight, I guess. And I might hurt a person.
But I would never ever touch a weapon, and without one, it's highly unlikely indeed that I would end up killing someone.

You would let yourself die? Sorry but i can't respect someone who was no desire to live. If it wasn't natural to want to live then we wouldn't have the human race or any other organsim in case you forgot. And yes, i believe that once that first bullet flies over your head you would feel quite differently.

So you'd be happy to let a murderer get away and kill someone else, that makes you just as bas as the murdeder themselves.

I never said I was a good person.

Crap, I voted for clergymen cause I thought it was asking about the profession I least respect. Can I change my vote?


Its ok. The mix up forces people to actually discuss their choice in order to straighten out their vote. I think Kanabia intended on that *raises eyebrow*;)

You would let yourself die? Sorry but i can't respect someone who was no desire to live. If it wasn't natural to want to live then we wouldn't have the human race or any other organsim in case you forgot. And yes, i believe that once that first bullet flies over your head you would feel quite differently.

If you make me decide if it's my life or that of another person?
Trust me, that other person is sure to have more to offer to the human race than I do.

Its ok. The mix up forces people to actually discuss their choice in order to straighten out their vote. I think Kanabia intended on that *raises eyebrow*;)

Hahaha....nope...i'm not feeling that malicious tonight. :p

Hypothetical questions are a total waste of time unless asked AFTER the subject has had the experience. You cant expect any accurate meaningful answer of someone- you cant ask someone what they think they would do, if they havent had the experience- and expect a true answer.

Some might swear they would kill if they were in this situation, then freeze or change their mind when it came to fruition. Others might swear they wouldnt, and then act reflexively at the moment it happened.

I'm pretty sure if someone was about to kill our children CL, that both you and I would have no trouble ending their life before they ended our childs life. Hypothetical or not.

Its ok. The mix up forces people to actually discuss their choice in order to straighten out their vote. I think Kanabia intended on that *raises eyebrow*;)
Oh yes, Kanabia the master puppeteer with only our best interest in mind.


Yeah right. :p

CL, it is experience that makes me feel this way. If I felt any other way, I'd be a murderer by now. If I felt I could compromise on that principle of mine, I would have killed someone when I was 13.

Well- I'll say I'm sorry to hear that you do have this experience. Especially as a child. You opinion carries weight with me know.
I'm different-you know that. But I'm not saying you're wrong or foolish.

Now I know I dont have to worry if next time you have me handcuffed-I can just talk my way out of it. :D

Kanabia, i was refering to a situation that i was in while in afghanistan. We were giving out "goodies" to a local school of children when gun fire erupted. We estimated it was about 20 enemy forces against out 30 so they were pretty stupid to attack us. It is just instinctive to fire back at an enemy that is trying to kill children, your men and yourself.

If you make me decide if it's my life or that of another person?
Trust me, that other person is sure to have more to offer to the human race than I do.


Cabra dont say that about yourself. :(

Where's the voting option for Engineering/Technical?

Well- I'll say I'm sorry to hear that you do have this experience. Especially as a child. You opinion carries weight with me know.
I'm different-you know that. But I'm not saying you're wrong or foolish.

Now I know I dont have to worry if next time you have me handcuffed-I can just talk my way out of it. :D

*lol
Well, let's just say you can use your tongue to get out of it, anyway ;)

Kanabia, i was refering to a situation that i was in while in afghanistan. We were giving out "goodies" to a local school of children when gun fire erupted. We estimated it was about 20 enemy forces against out 30 so they were pretty stupid to attack us. It is just instinctive to fire back at an enemy that is trying to kill children, your men and yourself.

Well that comes under "immediate danger" then, doesn't it?

I'm pretty sure if someone was about to kill our children CL, that both you and I would have no trouble ending their life before they ended our childs life. Hypothetical or not.

I figured you might have an inkling...

Cabra dont say that about yourself. :(

Whyever not?
No need to feel sad about me... feel happy for the other 6.5 billion people :D

*lol
Well, let's just say you can use your tongue to get out of it, anyway ;)

some might consider it a deadly weapon. I know from experience, I wouldnt hesitate to use it on you if forced.
with extreme prejudice.

Closely followed by professional athletes, for sheer uselessness.

Whilst I would not consider Proffessional athletes as the most respectable proffession. How can you not respect what they have achieved?

Proffession sports is probably the only field out there where pure skill, hard work, and dedication count for 95% of achievement, and only 5% is based on who you know or how much money daddy has.

For god's sake any old idiot can be a doctor if daddy pays for medical school. Many athletes come from poor broken homes and have achieved everything through hard work, practice and dedication. But hard work is not enough, you also have to have incredible natural ability too. In fact so many athletes out there were sooo good, worked sooo hard but just did not make the cut at the highest proffessional level and consequentially they have nothing to show for it now.

Micheal Jordan, Eric Koston and Zinedine Zidane are each worth 100 doctors or lawyers. Not a single laywer or doctor could ever do what they do with all the training in the world, yet if they had been trained and educated in law or medicine they could have easily achieved what 99% of doctors or lawyers have achieved.

Cabra, one of the main reasons that you dont hear about troops not shooting at the enemy in this war as in past wars, is that the enemy wants to die. They want to die for allah, otherwise they would never attack our superior forces. I think you might use deadly force to protect yourself if the enemy did not want to live anyway.

I'm pretty sure if someone was about to kill our children CL, that both you and I would have no trouble ending their life before they ended our childs life. Hypothetical or not.
In my case, add "grandchildren" to that. :D

Whyever not?
No need to feel sad about me... feel happy for the other 6.5 billion people :D

Some of us have come to like you. We see your clever,creative,playful and meaningful side.

We dont like to know you hold a low opinion of yourself when we have a higher regard for you. Even when disagreeing on certain things.

That's exactly what I was thinking when reading through the poll. E.g. I was close to vote for journalists, but then I thought about the guys writing for some sleazy yellow-press rag, so, um, no.

In the end, I voted for educator. Though I have to say, I'm more talking about professors than teachers (sorry to all teachers). I guess I just really respect intelligence and knowledge, so if you have those two, paired with the ability to teach really well, you definitely have my respect. (Again, excluding the lame-ass professor regurgitating the same lecture for the past 10 years).
LOL! I understand perfectly. I was thinking about adding Journalist myself, but IMHO entirely too many of them are in it for the money. I recall a quote from Mark Twain: "That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons
who failed at ditching and shoemaking and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poorhouse." :D

Some of us have come to like you. We see your clever,creative,playful and meaningful side.

We dont like to know you hold a low opinion of yourself when we have a higher regard for you. Even when disagreeing on certain things.


exactly.

Some of us have come to like you. We see your clever,creative,playful and meaningful side.

We dont like to know you hold a low opinion of yourself when we have a higher regard for you. Even when disagreeing on certain things.

I guess I shouldn't start talking about these things in the first place. Sorry. I didn't mean to bring anyone down....

:fluffle:

Micheal Jordan, Eric Koston and Zinedine Zidane are each worth 100 doctors or lawyers. Not a single laywer or doctor could ever do what they do with all the training in the world, yet if they had been trained and educated in law or medicine they could have easily achieved what 99% of doctors or lawyers have achieved.

Are you seriously suggesting that those athletes could do the work of 99 doctors if they had gone to medical school?

Wow.

....maybe if I make it bigger...

I dont think it makes any difference how big you write it, because if i remember correctly, when you answer the poll you dont get to see the first thread. At least i dont remember it grabbing my attention when I voted.

I guess I shouldn't start talking about these things in the first place. Sorry. I didn't mean to bring anyone down....

:fluffle:


You are just as entitled to your opinion as anyone else. Some may not agree with you, but dont apologize for the way you feel.

:fluffle:

LOL! I understand perfectly. I was thinking about adding Journalist myself, but IMHO entirely too many of them are in it for the money. I recall a quote from Mark Twain: "That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons
who failed at ditching and shoemaking and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poorhouse." :D

On the other hand, it's only the very top echelons of journalism that actually make a lot of money. Many of them work extremely hard, at irregular hours to meet their deadlines and get interviews, and earn a pretty basic wage. Your average reporter isn't that well off, and yet it seems that they're among the most disrespected.

I dont think it makes any difference how big you write it, because if i remember correctly, when you answer the poll you dont get to see the first thread. At least i dont remember it grabbing my attention when I voted.

Oh well. It makes other people look dumber than me, and that's all that matters. :p

On the other hand, it's only the very top echelons of journalism that actually make a lot of money. Many of them work extremely hard, at irregular hours to meet their deadlines and get interviews, and earn a pretty basic wage. Your average reporter isn't that well off, and yet it seems that they're among the most disrespected.
Perhaps it falls under the old rubric of "you can't please all of the people all of the time?" :)

Are you seriously suggesting that those athletes could do the work of 99 doctors if they had gone to medical school?

Wow.

No, but their abilities have each inspired at least 100 other younger athletes to achieve what they are achieving today.

And each one of thos athletes could also easily do what most lawyers do if they had had the right educational background.

So their contribution to sports is worth 100 times any individual lawyers contribution to law.

Whilst I would not consider Proffessional athletes as the most respectable proffession. How can you not respect what they have achieved?

Proffession sports is probably the only field out there where pure skill, hard work, and dedication count for 95% of achievement, and only 5% is based on who you know or how much money daddy has.

For god's sake any old idiot can be a doctor if daddy pays for medical school. Many athletes come from poor broken homes and have achieved everything through hard work, practice and dedication. But hard work is not enough, you also have to have incredible natural ability too. In fact so many athletes out there were sooo good, worked sooo hard but just did not make the cut at the highest proffessional level and consequentially they have nothing to show for it now.

Micheal Jordan, Eric Koston and Zinedine Zidane are each worth 100 doctors or lawyers. Not a single laywer or doctor could ever do what they do with all the training in the world, yet if they had been trained and educated in law or medicine they could have easily achieved what 99% of doctors or lawyers have achieved.

I recognise the discipline this takes. However, it's not a profession that's marked by it's extreme usefulness, is it?

Educators teach and train, doctors heal, clergymen comfort, soldiers protect parts of society, clerks keep the finances going, politicians decide on behalf of society, lawyers uphold the legal system and defend, journalists keep people informed, and tradesmen and labourers construct keep the economy going.
What do professional athletes do?

La cienga, anyone will work hard for millions of dollars, its those that work hard for little money that deserve the most respect.

Right, in order of most respect to least respect:

educators
tradesmen
doctors
journalists
soldiers
clerks
clergymen
professional athletes
lawyers
politicians

What do professional athletes do?

Sell Nike's

You are just as entitled to your opinion as anyone else. Some may not agree with you, but dont apologize for the way you feel.

:fluffle:

Oh, I don't apologise for my opinion of soldiers. I apologise if I made anyone feel bad...

Gift-of-god, just a question but why do you place journalists so high?

Oh, I don't apologise for my opinion of soldiers. I apologise if I made anyone feel bad...


fair enough.

On the other hand, it's only the very top echelons of journalism that actually make a lot of money. Many of them work extremely hard, at irregular hours to meet their deadlines and get interviews, and earn a pretty basic wage. Your average reporter isn't that well off, and yet it seems that they're among the most disrespected.

Yes, I agree. In fact many Journalist are out in some of the most dangerous places in the world, such as Iraq, and they aren't there for the oil. They are there because they are deicated to trying to allow everybody in their home countries to get some view of the truth, however distorted from the comfort of their own home.

Some of those guys are actually out there on the frontline with the soldiers, or even ahead of the soldiers (John Simpson), except they do not carry weapons to protect themsleves. How many journalists have been kidnapped in Iraq??

How can you not respect that?

I voted "Doctors" as in Doctors of Medicine

I guess I shouldn't start talking about these things in the first place. Sorry. I didn't mean to bring anyone down....

:fluffle:


You cant bring me down. Thats something only I can do. You do make me want to make you appreciate yourself more, though.

Oh, I don't apologise for my opinion of soldiers. I apologise if I made anyone feel bad...
You mean other than making me wonder if most of my life has been wasted? ( Just kidding! ) :D

Yes, I agree. In fact many Journalist are out in some of the most dangerous places in the world, such as Iraq, and they aren't there for the oil. They are there because they are deicated to trying to allow everybody in their home countries to get some view of the truth, however distorted from the comfort of their own home.

Some of those guys are actually out there on the frontline with the soldiers, or even ahead of the soldiers (John Simpson), except they do not carry weapons to protect themsleves. How many journalists have been kidnapped in Iraq??

How can you not respect that?

Yeah, that's my line of thought too. :)

Yes, I agree. In fact many Journalist are out in some of the most dangerous places in the world, such as Iraq, and they aren't there for the oil. They are there because they are deicated to trying to allow everybody in their home countries to get some view of the truth, however distorted from the comfort of their own home.

Some of those guys are actually out there on the frontline with the soldiers, or even ahead of the soldiers (John Simpson), except they do not carry weapons to protect themsleves. How many journalists have been kidnapped in Iraq??

How can you not respect that?
I would respect them a lot more if they would do completely factual reporting without filtering it through their liberal looking-glasses. I realize that sensationalism sells more newspapers, etc., but sometimes I find myself wondering just which war they're covering, the real one or the one they would like everyone back home to protest against.

La cienga, anyone will work hard for millions of dollars, its those that work hard for little money that deserve the most respect.

Yes, you are right. But most proffesional athletes do not make millions, granted those in top echelons of American sports leagues, and the first divisions of say 7 European nations football leagues are millionaires. The vast majority of proffessional athletes; minor league baseball players, South American Football Players, Indian Cricketers, etc. dont make much.

Even those that do make millions did not start out in the sport to try to get rich, they did it for the love of the game.

If you measure the amount of hours of training put in divided by the actual chance of success, athletes on the whole probably have a low hourly wage.

La Cienga, the reason that i can not respect journalists is that A) They get the story so wrong that its not even funny. B) They just get in the way of our completing the mission. C) They will do anything just to get the story and make the money(just from personal experience)

Yes, you are right. But most proffesional athletes do not make millions, granted those in top echelons of American sports leagues, and the first divisions of say 7 European nations football leagues are millionaires. The vast majority of proffessional athletes; minor league baseball players, South American Football Players, Indian Cricketers, etc. dont make much.

Even those that do make millions did not start out in the sport to try to get rich, they did it for the love of the game.

If you measure the amount of hours of training put in divided by the actual chance of success, athletes on the whole probably have a low hourly wage.
Are you kidding? Over in afghanistan and iraq we have 16-18 hour work days. Your telling me that they put in a lot of hours. Yeah they have been training in their sport for a long time but i think that most kids train in their sports a lot also while not ever making millions of dollars doing it.

*Sigh* And once again, researchers and scientists don't even make the list. I know we're not respected. I know we aren't liked. But could we at least get a MENTION? Just a word or two to indicate that people at least remember we exist?

*Sigh* And once again, researchers and scientists don't even make the list. I know we're not respected. I know we aren't liked. But could we at least get a MENTION? Just a word or two to indicate that people at least remember we exist?
"Scientists" were on my list. :p

*Sigh* And once again, researchers and scientists don't even make the list. I know we're not respected. I know we aren't liked. But could we at least get a MENTION? Just a word or two to indicate that people at least remember we exist?

ah, Scientists fit in my loose definition of educators... but then I'm not the OP, so I guess my opinion doesn't count. But anyone who contributes to gaining knowledge scores highly for me.

ah, Scientists fit in my loose definition of educators... but then I'm not the OP, so I guess my opinion doesn't count. But anyone who contributes to gaining knowledge scores highly for me.
Yeah, that's what I voted for because it was the closest thing to "scientist" on the list. But many brilliant and wonderful scientists would resist being classified as "educators" because they don't actually work to educate anybody per se...for instance, many of us are exclusively researchers, and while our work may add to a growing body of knowledge we really aren't spending any of our time "educating" anybody else. They have to learn it themselves, by reading and studying the work we do, so it would be a bit rude of us to take credit by claiming that we educated them.

OK, this is my order:

Scientists
Educators
Doctors
Journalists
Proffessional Athletes
Tradesmen/Labourers
Soldiers
Politicians/Other Government
Lawyers
Clerks
Clergymen

*Sigh* And once again, researchers and scientists don't even make the list. I know we're not respected. I know we aren't liked. But could we at least get a MENTION? Just a word or two to indicate that people at least remember we exist?


I tried to include you in people that do their best with good intentions. I find it very hard to pick one profession when there are many people doing god things in all.
We know you're out there. And some of us are well aware that we are enjoying the fruits of your labor.

Teachers, but I'm completely biased (about 75% of the females in my life- friends and family- are teachers)

Yes, you are right. But most proffesional athletes do not make millions, granted those in top echelons of American sports leagues, and the first divisions of say 7 European nations football leagues are millionaires. The vast majority of proffessional athletes; minor league baseball players, South American Football Players, Indian Cricketers, etc. dont make much.

Even those that do make millions did not start out in the sport to try to get rich, they did it for the love of the game.

If you measure the amount of hours of training put in divided by the actual chance of success, athletes on the whole probably have a low hourly wage.


I'd say Derek Jeter of the New York Yankees is a great example of someone to be admired and respected. He plays the game-he gives it his all and does so with respect and dignity. He makes a fortune, but doesnt flaunt it or behave badly.

Yes-baseball is just a game, but I think he is the ultimate good example of an ideal role model. He's a respectful gentleman on and off the field and he is involved in many worthwhile charity organizations.

None. I respect individual people. You have asshats and great people in any of those professions.

I find it interesting that most of the more highly respected professions we've listed here require either considerable education or some form of personal sacrifice, or both.

Engineers... Definitely engineers.

None. I respect individual people. You have asshats and great people in any of those professions.
Very true, but this poll is actually more about our percetions of specific professions, not individuals.

*Sigh* And once again, researchers and scientists don't even make the list. I know we're not respected. I know we aren't liked. But could we at least get a MENTION? Just a word or two to indicate that people at least remember we exist?

Not forgotten. I just wanted a specific list out of these examples for my own curiousity. I screwed it up after I messed up the poll, but whatever. If I could have, I would have fit 15 options, but there's that simple rule that no matter what you put on a poll, SOMEONE will bitch about a missing option.

The reason I picked these specific examples however is because all of them have animosity geared towards them in some way - even doctors and educators have their share of detractors: a lot of people don't trust doctors, being suspicious of them caring more about money (or their golf game, as a previous poster mentioned) than their patients, and some conservatives who see academia in general as being a hotbed of left-wing thought. I've heard arguments against every one of these professions at one time. I couldn't think of anyone that had a specific dislike of engineers or scientists, though.

I chose to ask the question "Which do you most respect" to see which people respected these professions in particular and why - i'd heard the arguments against them, I wanted to see the other side. I knew doctors and educators would win out, but even so, some of the other responses have been interesting - and I also wanted to see how the responses matched up to the political views of the posters (If I know them well enough to judge.).

Engineers... Definitely engineers.
Why is that?

I respect dogs most.

Not forgotten. I just wanted a specific list out of these examples for my own curiousity. I screwed it up after I messed up the poll, but whatever. If I could have, I would have fit 15 options, but there's that simple rule that no matter what you put on a poll, SOMEONE will bitch about a missing option.

Fair enough. I will freely admit that I have a chip on my shoulder about science being ignored or marginalized, so I'm sorry if it spilled unfairly onto you :).


The reason I picked these specific examples however because all of them have animosity geared towards them in some way - even doctors and educators have their share of detractors: a lot of people don't trust doctors, being suspicious of them caring more about money (or their golf game, as a previous poster mentioned) than their patients, and some conservatives who see academia in general as being a hotbed of left-wing thought. I've heard arguments against every one of these professions at one time. I couldn't think of anyone that had a specific dislike of engineers or scientists, though.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!

Other than brown people, uppity women, and Teh Gays, I can't think of a single group that is more reviled in America than scientists. Our current government does everything in its power to destroy, ignore, insult, and degrade science. We've got active movements all over the country that are geared at portraying scientists as evil wizards bent on destroying the world.

Hell, look at our movies. Count up the number of times that a villain is a scientist. Now count up the number of times that a scientist is portrayed pityingly as a geek, a goofy sidekick, or a pet nerd for the meathead hero. Count up the number of times that scientists are portrayed as arrogant snobs or as cold and heartless killjoys. Count up the number of times that the hero saves the day only by rejecting reason and science, and by embracing "faith" or "heart." Count up the number of movies in which science creates catastrophe, whether as a crazy mutated virus, a horde of evil zombies, a super-intelligent piece of equipment, or some other outpouring of forces-they-couldn't-control.

People fear what they cannot understand. Pretty much anybody can understand teaching, playing basketball, running for office, being a clerk, or even being a doctor (in the most general sense). But most of science is, by definition, inaccessable to the majority of people because it requires a particular level of study. As a result, science is, in many ways, more feared than any of the professions you listed. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. You see where I'm going with this.


I chose to ask the question "Which do you most respect" to see which people respected these professions in particular and why. I knew doctors and educators would win out, but even so, some of the other responses have been interesting - and I also wanted to see how the responses matched up to the political views of the posters (If I know them well enough to judge.).
That's fair enough, and I can see why you picked the way you did.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!

Other than brown people, uppity women, and Teh Gays, I can't think of a single group that is more reviled in America than scientists. Our current government does everything in its power to destroy, ignore, insult, and degrade science. We've got active movements all over the country that are geared at portraying scientists as evil wizards bent on destroying the world.

Hell, look at our movies. Count up the number of times that a villain is a scientist. Now count up the number of times that a scientist is portrayed pityingly as a geek, a goofy sidekick, or a pet nerd for the meathead hero. Count up the number of times that scientists are portrayed as arrogant snobs or as cold and heartless killjoys. Count up the number of times that the hero saves the day only by rejecting reason and science, and by embracing "faith" or "heart." Count up the number of movies in which science creates catastrophe, whether as a crazy mutated virus, a horde of evil zombies, a super-intelligent piece of equipment, or some other outpouring of forces-they-couldn't-control.

People fear what they cannot understand. Pretty much anybody can understand teaching, playing basketball, running for office, being a clerk, or even being a doctor (in the most general sense). But most of science is, by definition, inaccessable to the majority of people because it requires a particular level of study. As a result, science is, in many ways, more feared than any of the professions you listed. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. You see where I'm going with this.

That's certainly an interesting take on things, thanks...I hadn't noticed that before, but I think that prejudice is possibly more of an American thing, because it certainly feels over here that the bias is strongly towards science rather than other fields of work.

Over here, generally humanities professions like many listed on the poll here are scorned, but science seems left untouched. I honestly can't recall a single person badmouthing anyone for being in a science related profession or study, but humanities students get it all the time. Science graduates earn a lot more, and are virtually guaranteed a job upon completion of their degree. Maybe the prejudice in America is due to the stronger religious community...or maybe you're right, and it's here too, but I haven't noticed. I'll keep an eye out for it now. :p

Why is that?


Erm.... 'cause I r one :D

Seriously. Most engineers I have met have been extreamly ethical people.

I knew doctors and educators would win out, but even so, some of the other responses have been interesting

Many of the other responses may have been because voters voted for their least respected proffession as instructed. I dont mean to keep going on about your mistake Kanabia, I just wanted to remind you taht you cannot take the results as accurate.

For example, I would imagine that a lot of the votes for Clergy and pro athletes, and almost all of the votes for clerks and lawyers, this was the case.

Many of the other responses may have been because voters voted for their least respected proffession as instructed. I dont mean to keep going on about your mistake Kanabia, I just wanted to remind you taht you cannot take the results as accurate.

For example, I would imagine that a lot of the votes for Clergy and pro athletes, and almost all of the votes for clerks and lawyers, this was the case.

I know that, I was only trying to satisfy a personal curiosity anyway...it's not a serious survey or anything. (and if it was, I wouldn't post it here anyway :p) I'm more interested in the individual replies than the poll results, so it doesn't really bother me.

I'm curious to see the answer. Please vote from the poll and explain why you picked the choice you did, but feel free to mention any others that pop into your mind.

I made a simple mistake in the poll question. The question is still which one you MOST respect.

And for fun, why not state which one you least respect (and why, of course)? :p
I voted in the poll before reading your first post. Fuck you. This is one poll I would love to get right. I most respect educators (torchbearers of civilisation), and least respect professional athletes (overpaid useless bastards).

All right. I voted clergymen, because I respect them THE LEAST... Why? Not because I detest religion (I can be religious a times, though philosophic, I think, describes the state of mind I am in at those times better.). The thing is, I don't believe that Religion should be something with leaders and set doctrines. I mean all OFFICIAL churches are complete screw-ups, teaching a dogmatic one-sided view on religion. I mean come on, if it weren't for the dogma, one could rise above it all and see that, e.g. Protestantism, Catholisism, Orthodoxism, Islam and last but not least, Jewdom (or what the the religion of the Jews is called in English), is really the same view of life, the universe and everything; I mean, not in specific details, but in the ground principles (Love your fellow man, don't steal, don't kill, don't this, don't that...).

So my conclution is, clergymen get the LEAST respect from me, as I do not believe in their function and position, which has been thouroughly misused over the past millennia were religion has been uniform and dogmatic.

My respect, on the other hand, goes to all hardwork men and women that want something with their life, and that work for the good of society and others, as well as themselves. Hopefully, that still includes a lot of people in this age explotion and egoism.