NationStates Jolt Archive

Noone responded about this on The Pointlessness Of Richness (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=471111) thread, but I would like input on it. What would you do to make this idea work, or do you see it failing completely no matter what?

Or if you don't care about the idea one way or another and just want to bring up your own idea for a charity, feel free to do so as I would be interested in hearing how you would like to improve the world for others.

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I want to start a rehabilitation center (mainly for the homeless but maybe later for junkies, gangsters, go-nowhere dropouts and ex cons) where residents would be given shelter, food, medical care, psychiatric care and schooling in the trade of their choice. The Shelter itself would be it's own mostly (if not completely) self sufficiant city (using as many green enviro-friendly methods I can), without the use of cars (mostly bikes and walking).

There would be farms and factories for the residents to work at. Many of the goods produced would be sold in the city economic center as these cities would become tourist attractions because of the concept and beauty as well as the low priced goods being created for their consumption.

To speak of the concept and beauty, these cities will be big but layed out in a distance-friendly manner that is vertical rather than horizontal, I kind of envision it looking like a mountain (with a lot of indoor area but also outdoors), having a very artisitic look as well as many parks.

I think that with enough brilliant minds working on this project, I bet something like this could be workable and help a lot of people as well as make it's own money, and perhaps become a model for others around the world to copy.

I've left a lot of the more intricate details out like rules, how many chances someone gets, how much supervision they are given, if they are allowed even alcohol that it might just be allowed in moderation. The security forces it would need and things like that. It's an idea I've been building on for a while.

I know without a doubt if I was rich, I would help as many people as I can. I see these big lotteries going on and I say "if I won that, I would do something to make a difference." I actually sit and think about it and talk to people about it. The last big lottery I saw was over 300 million dollars. If I had that, I would sit down with a financial consultant and figure out how I could turn that money into an endless pool of funds. Put it in some high interst yield and have the money go into a charity via annuity checks or whatever.

And while we are on the subject of lotteries, I know that some of them help to pay for college grants and things like that. But since people are so wild about the lottery, why cant we have a lottery that benefits a needy cause like cancer,AIDS,abused children, poverty stricken nations.....the list goes on. I bet the government would squash that. So say if this weeks lottery had reached 50 million, why not give the winner 5-10 million and then appropriate the rest to help aid the needy?

Then I hope you get rich! I'd love to see lottery revenues go to help the homeless and the sick.

So noone with any critisism or input on my original idea?

So noone with any critisism or input on my original idea?

Yes: You'd need a fuckload of cash. And the way most charities are calling out for cash, I don't think you'd be able to raise it.

Then I hope you get rich! I'd love to see lottery revenues go to help the homeless and the sick.

So noone with any critisism or input on my original idea?

I think its an excellent idea. Maybe if we work together, my lottery concept could raise the funds to get your cities started until they are self sufficeint. We could develop new cities all over the place. Perhaps some wealthy tycoons would want to invest in such an idea and help fund more cities.

Yes: You'd need a fuckload of cash. And the way most charities are calling out for cash, I don't think you'd be able to raise it.


Yeah it would be a huge investment. I'm thinking that maybe with the right pitch one might be able to do it though. Pitch it to govts of different countries or even states as well as the biggest companies around the world .

Perhaps offer shares in it as a business investment.

Perhaps people would be fighting to have in or right next to their city because it would rid their streets of the homeless as well as create a tourist attraction.

I think its an excellent idea. Maybe if we work together, my lottery concept could raise the funds to get your cities started until they are self sufficeint. We could develop new cities all over the place. Perhaps some wealthy tycoons would want to invest in such an idea and help fund more cities.

Thanks - I've told people of my idea and many like it but some say that it wouldn't make enough money.

I think that with enough careful planning it could sustain the people and make the money. If you are giving people room and board while providing them jobs you don't have to pay them as much, especially if you are offering medical care and schooling/job training as well. And they can keep their savings in the shelter/city's bank which could gain interest and whatnot.

ok i have a few thoughts on your idea

its an interesting idea. a "model city of the disfunctional"

doesnt it ghetto-ize the people you are trying to help?

one of the big problems that led to the failure of highrise public housing was that it grouped the poor and the disfunctional together without the mitigating influence of the middle class and the fully functional.

the other problem was that without ownership, there was little pride in keeping the place nice. there was just no incentive for people with little left over for "luxuries" like taking good care of someone elses property.

so i feel that anyone coming to your charity city would need to buy into it. even if its much less than the value of what they are getting.

You would only need money to buy land in the first place and something to generate electricity, after that it could be money free and self sufficient if you get people with the right skills.

ok i have a few thoughts on your idea

its an interesting idea. a "model city of the disfunctional"

doesnt it ghetto-ize the people you are trying to help?

one of the big problems that led to the failure of highrise public housing was that it grouped the poor and the disfunctional together without the mitigating influence of the middle class and the fully functional.

the other problem was that without ownership, there was little pride in keeping the place nice. there was just no incentive for people with little left over for "luxuries" like taking good care of someone elses property.

so i feel that anyone coming to your charity city would need to buy into it. even if its much less than the value of what they are getting.

Furthermore, what means of social advancement does he intend to proffer the interned?

ok i have a few thoughts on your idea

its an interesting idea. a "model city of the disfunctional"

doesnt it ghetto-ize the people you are trying to help?

one of the big problems that led to the failure of highrise public housing was that it grouped the poor and the disfunctional together without the mitigating influence of the middle class and the fully functional.

the other problem was that without ownership, there was little pride in keeping the place nice. there was just no incentive for people with little left over for "luxuries" like taking good care of someone elses property.

so i feel that anyone coming to your charity city would need to buy into it. even if its much less than the value of what they are getting.

well there would be strict rules to abide by. people have to keep themselves and their habitat clean. if someone doesnt want to live by the rules to help better themselves then they dont have to and are welcome to go back to living on the street.

it's not a housing project, its a whole system of living.

Furthermore, what means of social advancement does he intend to proffer the interned?


What kind of social advancement have I not mentioned that you have in mind? I am offering job skills, education, pride in ones work, there will be sports and games available. We'll offer outside job placement and I imagine some would like to stay and give back to teh place that gave back to them a chance at life.

I think that if one was started and it was shown to be successful in helping others as well as generate cashflow that they would be a success and would certainly spring up in places all around the world.

well there would be strict rules to abide by. people have to keep themselves and their habitat clean. if someone doesnt want to live by the rules to help better themselves then they dont have to and are welcome to go back to living on the street.

it's not a housing project, its a whole system of living.
people only value what they earn, not what is given to them.

people only value what they earn, not what is given to them.


If making people work for their room, board, education and medical care is not earning it, then I don't know what is. I've actually lived on the street a couple of times so I can say with absolute certainty that many people do appreciate chances to get out of their situation when they are downtrodden (so those would be the ones who got help and contributed to the countries economy while they are getting that help).

Do you wish to offer any of your own ideas on how to make things better for other people or do you only worry about yourself because nobody appreciates help so you don't feel the need to give it?

If making people work for their room, board, education and medical care is not earning it, then I don't know what is. I've actually lived on the street a couple of times so I can say with absolute certainty that many people do appreciate chances to get out of their situation when they are downtrodden (so those would be the ones who got help and contributed to the countries economy while they are getting that help).

Do you wish to offer any of your own ideas on how to make things better for other people or do you only worry about yourself because nobody appreciates help so you don't feel the need to give it?

Actually, I have a multitude of ides of helping the degenerates of the streets, involving: compulsory labour schemes, public works, compulsory military service and other such niceties.

If making people work for their room, board, education and medical care is not earning it, then I don't know what is. I've actually lived on the street a couple of times so I can say with absolute certainty that many people do appreciate chances to get out of their situation when they are downtrodden (so those would be the ones who got help and contributed to the countries economy while they are getting that help).

Do you wish to offer any of your own ideas on how to make things better for other people or do you only worry about yourself because nobody appreciates help so you don't feel the need to give it?
nope. i was only doing you the favor of contributing to your thread in hopes that it would encourage other people to do the same

if a helping hand were the only thing needed to take care of homelessness and drug addiction there would be no long term homeless or drug addicts. your idea while interesting needs more work because of the things ive already mentioned. i dont know why you wouldnt take them seriously.

Actually, I have a multitude of ides of helping the degenerates of the streets, involving: compulsory labour schemes, public works, compulsory military service and other such niceties.


So nothing to help the downtrodden, just ideas on how to force them into roles that serve society without giving the downtrodden any benefit out of it?

I thought you were concerned about their social advancement? Did you just mean how they can advance society? I also provided ways in which this could do that as wll as help the individuals.

nope. i was only doing you the favor of contributing to your thread in hopes that it would encourage other people to do the same

if a helping hand were the only thing needed to take care of homelessness and drug addiction there would be no long term homeless or drug addicts. your idea while interesting needs more work because of the things ive already mentioned. i dont know why you wouldnt take them seriously.


And I addressed your concerns seriously so I can't imagine why you would say otherwise.

In terms of ownership, they would be able to buy shares in the company as well as save money while getting educated or learning a trade. There would be a sense of community as well as there would be games and gatherings and rallies.

And like I said they would be working for their keep and so in earning it they will have pride in themselves and the organization giving them the opportunities.

In a group that large, you're bound to have people setting up gambling rings, drink smuggling and drug trafficing as a means of making money. Have you considered how you might police such a community as a way of explicitly preventing them from engaging in the activities that they resort to on the streets at the minute?

In a group that large, you're bound to have people setting up gambling rings, drink smuggling and drug trafficing as a means of making money. Have you considered how you might police such a community as a way of explicitly preventing them from engaging in the activities that they resort to on the streets at the minute?

Yes I have, I was thinking regular testing for drugs. As for drinking I havent thought too much about it. I think maybe there should be bars available but limit what they are allowed to drink and reprimand them if they can't do their duties or keep up with class work. I'm not so sure I have a problem if people want to gamble with their money.

After so many infractions they would either no longer be allowed to stay or there would be a stricter area for them if they chose to try that perhaps.

I know without a doubt if I was rich, I would help as many people as I can. I see these big lotteries going on and I say "if I won that, I would do something to make a difference." I actually sit and think about it and talk to people about it. The last big lottery I saw was over 300 million dollars. If I had that, I would sit down with a financial consultant and figure out how I could turn that money into an endless pool of funds. Put it in some high interst yield and have the money go into a charity via annuity checks or whatever.

And while we are on the subject of lotteries, I know that some of them help to pay for college grants and things like that. But since people are so wild about the lottery, why cant we have a lottery that benefits a needy cause like cancer,AIDS,abused children, poverty stricken nations.....the list goes on. I bet the government would squash that. So say if this weeks lottery had reached 50 million, why not give the winner 5-10 million and then appropriate the rest to help aid the needy?
The lottery in my state goes to the towns and towards schooling and stuff. But that bitch Rell wants it to go towards no property or auto tax.

After so many infractions they would either no longer be allowed to stay or there would be a stricter area for them if they chose to try that perhaps.
Hrm. This is where I see your idea ultimately failing. The inevitable result of people having easy access to this stuff is that they will simply abuse your system. If you throw them out then, you'll be making people homeless again, thus invalidating your mission statement.

Without the perfect rehabilitation environment, people will not just struggle to overcome their difficulties but possibly even strengthen them through the handouts you give them. There are really two kinds of environment that it has been shown to work in; one that has already been established as a community of peer pressure (eg, the AA) or a militaristic one.

I'd suggest, if you were on the verge of starting it, hiring social workers and actors (possibly even a celebrity of some sort) to pose as fellow patients and develop a sense of community early on, as well as some less personal individuals to take care of issues with border controls and so on.

i've toyed with the idea of buying a large house and allowing homeless people to stay there for a few weeks, until they were able to find a job and/or get back on their feet.

What I'd provide free of charge:

- One person per bed, 2-4 beds per room (bunk style, so 1-2 bunk modules), depending on the size of the rooms

- Clothing and shoes to wear around (jeans, t-shirts, etc.) or for job interviews (shirts/ties/slacks, dresses/female suits for the ladies, etc.)

- Toiletries (basics: soap, shampoo, toilet paper, deodorant, toothpaste, tooth brush, comb/brush, nail clippers... woman stuff for the women)

- Linens for the beds and towels for use in the bathroom

- Seperate bathrooms/showers for women and men (necessary, imo)

- Meals served at 7am, 1pm and 6:30 pm

- Snacks available (if, for instance, you miss breakfast... grab an apple)

- Television (with digital cable... gotta have some form of in-house entertainment), one in the guys' room and one in the girls' room (hehe, so the guys can watch football and the women can watch figure skating)

- Computer room (of sorts)... so people can look for jobs online... with printer/copier/fax

- Telephones (got to have at least two or three seperate lines, maybe more depending on how many are staying there)

- Security on the premises

- House van(s) to act as a free taxi service for the guests

- Front desk staff to help people with their job/apartment searches

It would be free of charge. I'd write grants to try to get some donations, and cover the rest with my own money.

This would be a place where people who want to work and get on with life -- but are stuck -- may come for a little while to get their lives back on track. I think it'd be a worthy concept.

Hrm. This is where I see your idea ultimately failing. The inevitable result of people having easy access to this stuff is that they will simply abuse your system. If you throw them out then, you'll be making people homeless again, thus invalidating your mission statement.

Without the perfect rehabilitation environment, people will not just struggle to overcome their difficulties but possibly even strengthen them through the handouts you give them. There are really two kinds of environment that it has been shown to work in; one that has already been established as a community of peer pressure (eg, the AA) or a militaristic one.

I'd suggest, if you were on the verge of starting it, hiring social workers and actors (possibly even a celebrity of some sort) to pose as fellow patients and develop a sense of community early on, as well as some less personal individuals to take care of issues with border controls and so on.

It depends on the person and what they are being rehabed from. At first I think they could be in a strict environment where they wont have the freedom to go anywhere they choose and will be under constant supervision and have lots of support.

Plus they aren't getting handouts in the long run, they are working for a chance to make something of themselves. Those who don't want to work for it are not obligated to work for it and of course there will be those who don't want to so they can go back out to their old way of living.

In the rehab environment though, the more progress they show the more freedom they are given. Sure people will try to abuse it or get away with things but they get reprimanded as things are found out and those that comply with the program are still benefitting themselves and the rehab/company.

It may not work for every single person but it wont contribute to homelessness, it will reduce it while helping the economy.

Border security will be tight actually and rule breakers will be reprimanded.

This isn't about solving all the worlds poverty problems, its about helping those who WANT to be helped and are willing to do what is necessary to make somethign of themselves provided they get the chance. This is about offering chances to people who need them and will use them, not about forcing change on those who dont want it.

i've toyed with the idea of buying a large house and allowing homeless people to stay there for a few weeks, until they were able to find a job and/or get back on their feet.

What I'd provide free of charge:

- One person per bed, 2-4 beds per room (bunk style, so 1-2 bunk modules), depending on the size of the rooms

- Clothing and shoes to wear around (jeans, t-shirts, etc.) or for job interviews (shirts/ties/slacks, dresses/female suits for the ladies, etc.)

- Toiletries (basics: soap, shampoo, toilet paper, deodorant, toothpaste, tooth brush, comb/brush, nail clippers... woman stuff for the women)

- Linens for the beds and towels for use in the bathroom

- Seperate bathrooms/showers for women and men (necessary, imo)

- Meals served at 7am, 1pm and 6:30 pm

- Snacks available (if, for instance, you miss breakfast... grab an apple)

- Television (with digital cable... gotta have some form of in-house entertainment), one in the guys' room and one in the girls' room (hehe, so the guys can watch football and the women can watch figure skating)

- Computer room (of sorts)... so people can look for jobs online... with printer/copier/fax

- Telephones (got to have at least two or three seperate lines, maybe more depending on how many are staying there)

- Security on the premises

- House van(s) to act as a free taxi service for the guests

- Front desk staff to help people with their job/apartment searches

It would be free of charge. I'd write grants to try to get some donations, and cover the rest with my own money.

This would be a place where people who want to work and get on with life -- but are stuck -- may come for a little while to get their lives back on track. I think it'd be a worthy concept.


I think that would be a very noble thing to do and I am sure that it would help many people who need it.

I think that would be a very noble thing to do and I am sure that it would help many people who need it.

yeah, now i couldn't do it now... it might take quite a lot of money out of my pocket depending on how much i'd be able to secure in grants, but if i were ever able to do it, it'd be cool.

yeah, now i couldn't do it now... it might take quite a lot of money out of my pocket depending on how much i'd be able to secure in grants, but if i were ever able to do it, it'd be cool.


Plus, as is often seen, people who get help from charities while they get back on their feet become steady contributors to those charities. SO as you secure funding from grants and such, you could also get a growing base of individual contributors and perhaps build more and more of these houses.