NationStates Jolt Archive

just got this email:
Reasons why the English language is so hard to learn:
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert..
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France (Surprise!). Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat...

Quicksand works slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea or is it a pig. And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?

If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend. If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it? Is it an odd, or an end? If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and wise guy are opposites? You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out, and in which, an alarm goes off by going on.
English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all.

P.S. - Why doesn't "Buick" rhyme with "quick"?

j'aime le français.

:D Good stuff. To be fair, though, English is hardly the worst in that regard. Look at the Japanese writing system(s) or Sanskrit grammar:eek:

:D Good stuff. To be fair, though, English is hardly the worst in that regard. Look at the Japanese writing system(s) or Sanskrit grammar:eek:

ive never tried to learn Japanese, and probably never will...

:D Good stuff. To be fair, though, English is hardly the worst in that regard. Look at the Japanese writing system(s) or Sanskrit grammar:eek:

Those languages are more of a language that are gained instinctively (languages that you gain when you grow up learning them). Chinese is notorious for this:

There are over 15 different ways to say a specific word.

This is one of the reasons I love English...it's utterly crazy. I feel fortunate to have a native command of what is arguably one of the world's most beautiful languages, complete with all its eccentricities.

Other languages are also replete with sillinesses. I noticed the other day, that Classical Arabic has a verb meaning "to predict the future...or to have round breasts". There's also a verb specifically meaning "to mistake one's he-camel for a she-camel". This is not to mention the verb meaning "to insert one's finger into a chicken's anus in such a way as to ascertain whether it has laid an egg or not".

Hurrah for ridiculous words, and crazy languages. Long may they live!

After I read that, I got a migraine. Although, it was worth it.

For those that complain about homophones and puns, note that Mandarin, my native language, has words that can stand for four to five different completely things.

Those languages are more of a language that are gained instinctively (languages that you gain when you grow up learning them). Chinese is notorious for this:

There are over 15 different ways to say a specific word.
Also, English has limited use of genders. My language divides nouns in three classes, and words vary in form, both singular and plural. Verbs also have more forms than in English.
And my language is easier than 80% of what's out there.

My language divides nouns in three classes, and words vary in form, both singular and plural. Verbs also have more forms than in English.


Pray tell, what is your language? It sounds cool to me, but I am a bit of a linguo-pervert...never happier than when I'm up to my knees in optatives!

Pray tell, what is your language? It sounds cool to me, but I am a bit of a linguo-pervert...never happier than when I'm up to my knees in optatives!
Ok, get ready... *drum roll*... Romanian.

Pray tell, what is your language? It sounds cool to me, but I am a bit of a linguo-pervert...never happier than when I'm up to my knees in optatives!

French seems to fit that description.

'I', 'You', 'He/she/it/them'

Those languages are more of a language that are gained instinctively (languages that you gain when you grow up learning them).
Your average Japanese college student doesn't even understand 100% of the language.

But readin that gave me a headache.

to have fitted should be "to have fat"

and a round is circular, right? but a round of sandwiches may be square or triangular...


hooray for the english language making no sense! actually, it makes perfect sense, because i speak it... but hooray for that too! :D

though for the record, eggplant is an american word. and we call "french fries" chips. and "candies" are sweets, and sweetmeats are... well i've never heard that one before.

though there is a perfectly good explaination for that - "meat" used to mean any kind of food. thats how you get mince pies not actually having minced beef (or actual meat) in them; its minced meat, meaning minced food. don't know when meat suddenly switched to meaning animal flesh, but i learned that recently and it explains quite a few strange things :)



edit: but at least we don't have these silly and arbitary, nonsense genders for everything. why is a chair female in other languages? why god why?! :confused: :headbang:

Ok, get ready... *drum roll*... Romanian.

one of my friends from high school was from romania. i loved to hear her speak the language

French seems to fit that description.

'I', 'You', 'He/she/it/them'
Ours is indeed a Romance one, so you're almost right. Good call.

one of my friends from high school was from romania. i loved to hear her speak the language
Well they say it is the language of...
of...
I can't think of anything...

I'm just glad I'm a native (American) English speaker. I can imagine it would be difficult to learn otherwise.

I once knew a guy who had roots in ... errr... some Oriental place. :p I can't for the life of me remember which one anymore. But he was teaching me a bit of his native language on our breaks at work, and I was amazed at how, depending on how you put an inflection on a word, it meant completely different things. Just the pitch of your voice made all the difference. It was wild. :)

Well they say it is the language of...
of...
I can't think of anything...


well it sounds good. thats all that counts to me :D

edit: but at least we don't have these silly and arbitary, nonsense genders for everything. why is a chair female in other languages? why god why?! :confused: :headbang:
A chair is masculine in my languange. Unlike the fox. Or the mighty hoove.
A blockhouse is neutral.

I'm just glad I'm a native (American) English speaker. I can imagine it would be difficult to learn otherwise.

yeah. just think of trying to learn english as a 2nd language! it so much easier growing up with it...

to have fitted should be "to have fat"

and a round is circular, right? but a round of sandwiches may be square or triangular...


hooray for the english language making no sense! actually, it makes perfect sense, because i speak it... but hooray for that too! :D

though for the record, eggplant is an american word. and we call "french fries" chips. and "candies" are sweets, and sweetmeats are... well i've never heard that one before.

though there is a perfectly good explaination for that - "meat" used to mean any kind of food. thats how you get mince pies not actually having minced beef (or actual meat) in them; its minced meat, meaning minced food. don't know when meat suddenly switched to meaning animal flesh, but i learned that recently and it explains quite a few strange things :)



edit: but at least we don't have these silly and arbitary, nonsense genders for everything. why is a chair female in other languages? why god why?! :confused: :headbang:
It probably happened sometime after you the time when people only at fruits and vegtables because you ran out of meat.

Your average Japanese college student doesn't even understand 100% of the language.

But readin that gave me a headache.

Not surprised. You don't learn every single thing. It's taught to be known only the basics for what you need. You don't learn anything fancy unless it's required. It's rare to find a Japanese person to know 100% Japanese. Same with Laotians, Thais and Chinese.

English sucks because it's a bastard; an accidental trade language that tries to mix-'n-match Germanic-Scandinavian and Romantic linguistic conventions and ends up with a rough, inconsistent hybrid. Of course it's hard to learn; it's hard to figure out a puzzle whose pieces aren't even intended to match, too.

... or Sanskrit grammar:eek:
a friend of mine at uni was studying sanskrit... kinda sums up the whole university attitude and experience then:

"so, what did you learn at university mike?"
"i learned an ancient, dead language!"
"why?
"something to do i suppose"
"any use in the real world?"
"none what so ever!"

hooray for pointless academia too! [/sarcasm]


A chair is masculine in my languange. Unlike the fox. Or the mighty hoove.
A blockhouse is neutral.
yes, but it still doesn't make that much sense to me, to be frank.
or, in fact, any sense.

someone tried to explain to me once that english did, in fact, have genders for things... but i really couldn't care less when as far as i'm concerned everything is "it" and thats good enough for me :D

English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all.
This brings an interesting idea... we should let a computer invent a language and all speak that!

j'aime le français.
Tu es stupide.









Une phrase commence avec une majuscule.

yes, but it still doesn't make that much sense to me, to be frank.
or, in fact, any sense.
Mind you, I was pointing out precisely that it made no sense.
I mean, it would make some sense for, let's say, things relating to dog vs. things relating to bitch (or man/woman, stallion/mare etc). But why would cloud be especially masculine? Why is fox always feminine? Why would radio be inconclusive (a male radio vs. several female radios - that's how we count it)?

This brings an interesting idea... we should let a computer invent a language and all speak that!

Yay machine language!

public class HelloPosi extends Greeting
{
public static void main(String[]args)
{
System.out.println("Hello, Posi.");
}
}

I still stand by English 2 in all matters concerned.

www.foon.co.uk/rc/page/e2.htm - worth a read any time, I can't even count the times that's made me laugh.

Tu es stupide. Une phrase commence avec une majuscule.

une majuscule? BAH!

Mind you, I was pointing out precisely that it made no sense.


then we agree! :fluffle:


I mean, it would make some sense for, let's say, things relating to dog vs. things relating to bitch (or man/woman, stallion/mare etc). But why would cloud be especially masculine? Why is fox always feminine? Why would radio be inconclusive (a male radio vs. several female radios - that's how we count it)?

well, logically, "dog" should be neutral, "bitch" should be feminine, and whatever a male-dog is called should be masculine. that would make sense at least. and maybe thats how it is. i'm too tired to actually think about this kind of thing - i'm just sprouting off angry sleep-filled posts of drivel and nonsense here and hoping nobody notices... :p


edit: and obviously a female radio is a pink-painted radio, and a masculine one is one with lots of flashing lights and buttons... its pretty obvious really when you think about it ;) :D

well, logically, "dog" should be neutral, "bitch" should be feminine, and whatever a male-dog is called should be masculine. that would make sense at least. and maybe thats how it is. i'm too tired to actually think about this kind of thing - i'm just sprouting off angry sleep-filled posts of drivel and nonsense here and hoping nobody notices... :p
Not to tire you, but I'm pointing out that there is no "generic dog" in our language. Generic dog would be masculine. That is: dog.

Yay machine language!

public class HelloPosi extends Greeting
{
public static void main(String[]args)
{
System.out.println("Hello, Posi.");
}
}
You know, that still has the same idiocy as english, just with a bunch of jibberish around it.

Machine language would be so regular and free of double entendres that you would just want to shoot yourself.

Not to tire you, but I'm pointing out that there is no "generic dog" in our language. Generic dog would be masculine. That is: dog.
not tiring at all, just further compounding my confusion :p

i think i should give up and go to sleep :P

:D Good stuff. To be fair, though, English is hardly the worst in that regard. Look at the Japanese writing system(s) or Sanskrit grammar:eek:

The first two alphabets aren't too bad!

<.<

>.>

We won't mention Kanji here...

- snip OP -
Oh my God, this is brilliant!

It should be handed out to every student learning English in school, just to prepare them for what they are entering into.

I'll have to save this, just because it contains all those examples of irregular English pronunciation you can never remember when talking about it (maybe I should start carrying it in my wallet, just in case).

I love the English language, and I've gotten pretty good at it (not that you'd always know from my posts, sadly) but ever so often I'll be watching the Daily Show or BBC International, and be absolutely astounded to hear them pronouncing a certain word that I've read and written a hundred times before but have never heard anybody say (we're talking "big" words here) and BAM, the pronunciation is nothing like I thought it would be.

I'm going crazy trying to come up with some examples (just recently Jon Stewart said a word the pronunciation of which boggled my mind so much I actually told friends about it...) but of course - nothing.

Ok, get ready... *drum roll*... Romanian.
Ah, forte bene!

Cum te cheama?

Excuse my spelling, multumesc.

That's almost all I know in Romanian.

I don't think English is that hard. True, the spelling is a problem, but the verbs are very straightforward compared to Spanish. Most languages seem to have some odd (IMO) features that English lacks, gender being just one example.

Here's something interesting(I do believe the English language should be reformed btw)

How to spell Fish a different way

Ghoti(pronounced the exact same as Fish)

"Gh" as in "Enough"

"O" as in "Woman"

"Ti" as in "Attention"

Here's something interesting(I do believe the English language should be reformed btw)

How to spell Fish a different way

Ghoti(pronounced the exact same as Fish)

"Gh" as in "Enough"

"O" as in "Woman"

"Ti" as in "Attention"
So you would pronounce it "fooch"?

Here's something interesting(I do believe the English language should be reformed btw)

How to spell Fish a different way

Ghoti(pronounced the exact same as Fish)

"Gh" as in "Enough"

"O" as in "Woman"

"Ti" as in "Attention"


fooch sounds like fish? :confused:

fooch sounds like fish? :confused:
Well, maybe "Ghoss", then?

"Gh" as in "Enough"

"O" as in "Women"

"ss" as in "Tissue"


Ghoti would have been more impressive, though.

Well, maybe "Ghoss", then?

"Gh" as in "Enough"

"O" as in "Women"

"ss" as in "Tissue"


Ghoti would have been more impressive, though.

you just solved that problem. women and woman have two different sounds. nice work...

heh, gatta love the english language lol

Is it all that surprising that english is not as clear on some things when written and with no inflection indicated? A lot of languages use inflection a whole bunch more than english, but they use symbols to indicate that when written. English for the most part does not, hence the OP's problems. If you were talking aloud, however, I think it would be easier to understand.

Here's something interesting(I do believe the English language should be reformed btw)

How to spell Fish a different way

Ghoti(pronounced the exact same as Fish)

"Gh" as in "Enough"

"O" as in "Woman"

"Ti" as in "Attention"
Should be

O in women

and

TI in nation

French seems to fit that description.

'I', 'You', 'He/she/it/them'

Well, French is rediculous in itself; who cares if a chair, table or BBQ is male or female; a BBQ is just that, an object - four legs, wheels and a grill sitting on top; no one fucks the thing, so the necessity to make it male or female is pretty much pointless.

Now, as for languages, German - consistant and logical; and no matter what you say in German, it always comes out like a military command :D

just got this email:

English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France (Surprise!).


I only mention this because of the nature of this thread, but it should be "English muffins weren't invented in England nor French fries in France."

Also, why do people park on driveways and drive on parkways?

By the way,

Buick doesn't rhyme with quick because Buick is a proper noun in which it's creator so wished it to be pronounced like that. And it is a rule in English that qu- is prounced "kwa",

Bu can be prounced as "b-yu" or "boo"

Should be

O in women

and

TI in nation
Nation! I couldn't for the life of me think of any really "sh"-sounding "ti"s. Duh.


Well, French is rediculous in itself; who cares if a chair, table or BBQ is male or female; a BBQ is just that, an object - four legs, wheels and a grill sitting on top; no one fucks the thing, so the necessity to make it male or female is pretty much pointless.

Now, as for languages, German - consistant and logical; and no matter what you say in German, it always comes out like a military command :D
Mon dieu, you couldn't be farther from the truth. German actually has one more gender than French - feminine, masculine, and neutral.

E.g. "prostate" is feminine, "lady bug" is masculine, and "girl" is neutral.

Consistent logic much?

English is not difficult at all.

E.g. "prostate" is feminine, "lady bug" is masculine, and "girl" is neutral.


Yeah, my mom thinks that's sexist.

E.g. "prostate" is feminine, "lady bug" is masculine, and "girl" is neutral.


Mädchen was always my pet hate while learning German.

Does anybody know of a language with more than three genders? I can't think what they'd call the fourth one, but it might exist...

also does anybody speak, or know about Georgian, 'cos from what I hear it's one hell of a weird and quite exciting toungue.

French seems to fit that description.

'I', 'You', 'He/she/it/them'

I thought French only had two genders on nouns?

Oh, and English isn't all that. A few words which can be mistaken for each other if they aren't in context, that's all.

Yeah, my mom thinks that's sexist.
Yeah, there's a famous quote by Mark Twain complaining about how, in German, a turnip is feminine and a girl is neutral.
It's sexist alright, as are probably a lot more of the gender assignations. I don't really feel like it subconsciously influences the thinking of the native speakers - but of course I wouldn't, seeing how it's subconscious...
So, it stands to reason that it's not just random gender assignment but a mirror of society (well, at least the society existing back when the language was coined) and that it does influence the way you think. Damn.

I thought French only had two genders on nouns?
Okay, I suck so much at knowing the correct grammatical terms for things I shouldn't even be answering this question, but Jenrak's "I" "you" "he/she/it" is just the cases (?), not the genders you mean. You mean "la" and "le" or "une" and "un" before a noun. He means the way a verb changes depending on the subject ("I go", "He goes").

Does anybody know of a language with more than three genders? I can't think what they'd call the fourth one, but it might exist...

In Russian, the conjugation of a word depends on whether the object is considered "alive" (animative) in addition to whether it is masculine or feminine. Neuter words are never alive. So you could perhaps say the genders are masculine animative, masculine inanimative, feminine animative, feminine inanimative or neuter. I don't know if the animative/inanimative difference is considered as different grammatically different genders, though...

Anyway, in Danish, two dialects of Norwegian and possibly Swedish (I honestly am not sure what they do,) there is a grammatical monster called the utrum gender, which basically is what happens when noone remembers which words are male and which are female and just start conjugating them both in the same way. This gender replaces masculine and feminine, though, so Danish, for instance, only has utrum and neuter.

russian has 3 genders, all of which are recognisable by the sounds the words end with. objects have a sex so that the grammatical structure of the language can accomodate them, as it is designed to use genders.
my parents where born in georgia, but all i know about the language is that it has alot of sounds that most people who only speak english will never be able to pronounce

Okay, I suck so much at knowing the correct grammatical terms for things I shouldn't even be answering this question, but Jenrak's "I" "you" "he/she/it" is just the cases (?), not the genders you mean. You mean "la" and "le" or "une" and "un" before a noun. He means the way a verb changes depending on the subject ("I go", "He goes").

Ah. Verb conjugation is something else. Not even the French conjugate verbs after gender. Though they do conjugate them after person and number.

Come to think of it, does anyone know a language that conjugates verbs after gender? There's bound to be one out there...

*snipped*
I still can't figure out why we use a nine-syllable "abbreviation" for a three-syllable term (WWW for "World Wide Web").

Jenrak's "I" "you" "he/she/it" is just the cases (?), not the genders you mean.

I, you, he/she/it...etc. are 'persons', which govern the way the verb works. I think the various bits of the verb i.e. 'go' 'goes' etc. are called parts, but I'm a bit hazy on that, so would appreciate correction if I'm wrong.

'Cases', though, are things like 'nominative', 'accusative', 'dative', 'ablative' etc. Some languages have cases coming out their ears, like Latin - nominative, vocative, accusative, genetive, dative, ablative. And Armenian - nominative, accusative, genetive, dative, ablative, instrumental, locative. Others have fewer, like the Semitic languages - Nominative, accusative, and genetive. Some, like English and French don't work on formal cases. Some try to impose cases on these languages, but they're not widely accepted.

I hope that was some help

Anyway, in Danish, two dialects of Norwegian and possibly Swedish (I honestly am not sure what they do,) there is a grammatical monster called the utrum gender, which basically is what happens when noone remembers which words are male and which are female and just start conjugating them both in the same way. This gender replaces masculine and feminine, though, so Danish, for instance, only has utrum and neuter.

It's called "uter" and we have it, too. Depending on grammatical schools and traditions, Swedish only has neuter and uter, or masculine, feminine, uter and neuter. The masculine and feminine can however always be suppressed in favour of uter, but I myself still keep track of masculine and feminine and inflect accordingly most of the time. Thus, I say "store pojken" instead of "stora pojken," or call a watch or a clock "she" as in "hon är 10" for "it's 10" instead of "den är 10."

Come to think of it, does anyone know a language that conjugates after gender? There's bound to be one out there...
Google says Arabic. I wouldn't know.

I, you, he/she/it...etc. are 'persons', which govern the way the verb works. I think the various bits of the verb i.e. 'go' 'goes' etc. are called parts, but I'm a bit hazy on that, so would appreciate correction if I'm wrong.

'Cases', though, are things like 'nominative', 'accusative', 'dative', 'ablative' etc. Some languages have cases coming out their ears, like Latin - nominative, vocative, accusative, genetive, dative, ablative. And Armenian - nominative, accusative, genetive, dative, ablative, instrumental, locative. Others have fewer, like the Semitic languages - Nominative, accusative, and genetive. Some, like English and French don't work on formal cases. Some try to impose cases on these languages, but they're not widely accepted.

I hope that was some help
Yes, thanks.

It also reminded me why I keep "forgetting" this stuff. :D

Ah. Verb conjugation is something else. Not even the French conjugate verbs after gender. Though they do conjugate them after person and number.

Come to think of it, does anyone know a language that conjugates verbs after gender? There's bound to be one out there...

French does conjugate after gender - "Je l'ai vue" - "I saw her" or "Elles se sont regardées." So does, for instance, Serbo-Croatian where "Ja sam bila" and "Ja sam bio" both mean "I was" or "I have been," but the former is feminine, and the latter masculine.

It's called "uter" and we have it, too. Depending on grammatical schools and traditions, Swedish only has neuter and uter, or masculine, feminine, uter and neuter. The masculine and feminine can however always be suppressed in favour of uter, but I myself still keep track of masculine and feminine and inflect accordingly most of the time. Thus, I say "store pojken" instead of "stora pojken," or call a watch or a clock "she" as in "hon är 10" for "it's 10" instead of "den är 10."
That's interesting. One would imagine that the feminine/masculine is in the process of disappearing, until it's only still used in literature or maybe newspapers. Is that so?

French does conjugate after gender - "Je l'ai vue" - "I saw her" or "Elles se sont regardées." So does, for instance, Serbo-Croatian where "Ja sam bila" and "Ja sam bio" both mean "I was" or "I have been," but the former is feminine, and the latter masculine.
But in French, that's conjugation after the gender of the object, not the subject, then, right? (Or maybe I'm just confused)

Come to think of it, does anyone know a language that conjugates after gender? There's bound to be one out there...


Arabic does (and I think the other Semitic languages do too.

ana askun = I live (as in habiter, in french, rather than vivre)
nahnu naskun = we live

anta taskun = you (sing. masc.) live
anti taskunii = you (sing. fem.) live
antuma taskunan = you (dual neutral) live
antum taskunuun = you (plu. masc./mixed) live
antunna taskunna = you (plu. fem.) live


huwa yaskun = he lives
hiya taskun = she lives (also used of non-human plurals)
huma yaskunan = they (dual masc.) live
huma taskunan = they (dual fem.) live
hum yaskunuun = they (plu. masc./mixed) live
hunna yaskunna = they (plu. fem) live


As in French and German (and Russian and Spanish etc etc etc) nouns in Arabic take genders, either masculine or feminine, but there are certain different rules for human nouns and non-human nouns, for example, non human plurals don't take a plural verb, but the feminine singular. When a verb comes before its subject in the sentence, it stays singular, even if the subject (human or non-human) is plural. And that's just the start of it!

That's interesting. One would imagine that the feminine/masculine is in the process of disappearing, until it's only still used in literature or maybe newspapers. Is that so?

Pretty much. News papers actually favour not using masculine/feminine as it is seen as somewhat dialectical, while uter is seen as more closely adherent to "rikssvenska," the standard "national dialect" used in literature and on television, even if dialects have become acceptable on TV and radio during the last 30 years.

But in French, that's conjugation after the gender of the object, not the subject, then, right? (Or maybe I'm just confused)

First one is object, the second is subject, despite the reflexive object, as it is, logically, reflexive and thus refers to the subject. You can also say "Je suis allée" and then it becomes conjugation after pure subject gender.

Pretty much. News papers actually favour not using masculine/feminine as it is seen as somewhat dialectical, while uter is seen as more closely adherent to "rikssvenska," the standard "national dialect" used in literature and on television, even if dialects have become acceptable on TV and radio during the last 30 years.
Aha, that's actually the exact opposite of what I imagined it to be. I automatically assumed the more complicated version (i.e. with m/f genders) would be the standard/"high" Swedish, and the "easy" version was just what people were using more and more these days because nobody cared anymore about adhering to that standard/"high" Swedish. Shows what I know.

But in French, that's conjugation after the gender of the object, not the subject, then, right? (Or maybe I'm just confused)


with French it seems an iffy subject - I haven't studied french for quite a while, but as far as I remember:

In the present tense, the gender of the subject doesn't affect the conjugation of the verb.

In the perfect tense, with verbs which take 'avoir' as their auxilliary, gender has no affect (unless there's a PDO - preceding direct object).
With verbs taking 'e^tre' as their auxilliary, the past participle must decline according to gender, but seeing as it's a participle, I think it comes under declension rather than conjugation, as the bit that is conjugated (the auxilliary) is not affected by the gender of the word.

...I think...

First one is object, the second is subject, despite the reflexive object, as it is, logically, reflexive and thus refers to the subject. You can also say "Je suis allée" and then it becomes conjugation after pure subject gender.

with French it seems an iffy subject - I haven't studied french for quite a while, but as far as I remember:

In the present tense, the gender of the subject doesn't affect the conjugation of the verb.

In the perfect tense, with verbs which take 'avoir' as their auxilliary, gender has no affect (unless there's a PDO - preceding direct object).
With verbs taking 'e^tre' as their auxilliary, the past participle must decline according to gender, but seeing as it's a participle, I think it comes under declension rather than conjugation, as the bit that is conjugated (the auxilliary) is not affected by the gender of the word.

...I think...

You're right.

I can't believe I studied French for 5 years in school (granted, quite some time ago) and not remember that little fun fact.

Aha, that's actually the exact opposite of what I imagined it to be. I automatically assumed the more complicated version (i.e. with m/f genders) would be the standard/"high" Swedish, and the "easy" version was just what people were using more and more these days because nobody cared anymore about adhering to that standard/"high" Swedish. Shows what I know.

Yeah, it's easy to think so, but national/standard Swedish has become simplified in that sense because it just so happens that the dialect rikssvenska is based on is the one that was common in the valley of the lake Mälaren (Mälardalen), where Stockholm is, and itself was this "simple" when it comes to genders. Also, as we strived for that elusive equality we love so dearly, natural genders for words must have become seen as archaic. The movement has thus been towards unification, and that has meant simplification.

I can't believe I studied French for 5 years in school (granted, quite some time ago) and not remember that little fun fact.

don't be so surprised - I was only reminded of it at christmas time, 4 years after my last French lesson...it was the subject of a vicious argument with my father... we had to get my (french teacher) auntie in to sort it out...both me and my father were wrong...

I still can't figure out why we use a nine-syllable "abbreviation" for a three-syllable term (WWW for "World Wide Web").

Or why the word 'abbreviation' is so long?

Or why 'onomatopoeia' doesn't sound like anything?

Or why the word 'lisp' is impossible to say with a lisp?

Or why the word 'stutter' is so hard to say if you stutter?

Or why 'dyslexic' is so hard to spell?

One of my favourite little English language things: "The ball that he had had, had had a puncture"...

One of my favourite little English language things: "The ball that he had had, had had a puncture"...
Ooh, every schoolkid's favourite german phrase in that vein:

"Wenn hinter Fliegen Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen hinterher."

[/random interjection]

Ooh, every schoolkid's favourite german phrase in that vein:

"Wenn hinter Fliegen Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen hinterher."

[/random interjection]

Er det det det er, er det det det er.
("If that's what it is, then that's what it is." No, really.)

Ooh, every schoolkid's favourite german phrase in that vein:

"Wenn hinter Fliegen Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen hinterher."

[/random interjection]

Ah... I think I've heard that one... it's about flies?

"When flies fly behind flies, flies fly behind flies"?

While we are randomly interjecting other languages... English just can't compete with Icelandic (I think)...

I encountered this a little while back: "nagglalakka alla kakkalakka", which, I'm told, means "Treat all coackroaches with nail varnish"..

and: "Jón á Á á á á fjalli", which apprarently equates to something like "John, who lives at the riverfarm, owns a river at the mountain".

Our unweildy English pales in comparison...

i mastered English by age two. French isn't that hard to learn either.

i mastered English by age two. French isn't that hard to learn either.

Is it because you've mastered the language that you have such a relaxed attitude towards it? Two good reasons to capitalize that "i", and you leave it as it is...


(Gah! Back, grammar nazi! Back into my mind!)

speaking of english: Is it true that you must say "he put his hand in his pocket"?

english lack a total neutral word to reference to somebode or a group of people. not sure how to explain, so an example:
In danish we have the word "man" that can be used refer to yourself, somebody else, everybody, a group of people og anything like that

in danish, we have some very fun use of "not", that can be confusing even to ourself. Especialy people that have to learn danish often have the problem for some years :)

"could you not tell me something" would in way the most cases means "could you tell me something"...

Ah... I think I've heard that one... it's about flies?

"When flies fly behind flies, flies fly behind flies"?
Yes. I'm surprised anyone would know that, seeing how stupid it is. Kudos. :p

While we are randomly interjecting other languages... English just can't compete with Icelandic (I think)...

I encountered this a little while back: "nagglalakka alla kakkalakka", which, I'm told, means "Treat all coackroaches with nail varnish"..

and: "Jón á Á á á á fjalli", which apprarently equates to something like "John, who lives at the riverfarm, owns a river at the mountain".
Incredibly enough, the first one could actually be deciphered by a German speaker; here, nail varnish is "Nagellack" and cockroach is "Kakerlake".

The second one however is as foreign as can be and rather mindboggling indeed.

you realize refuse i.e. rubbish is called that BECAUSE its refused. Presents are called presents BECAUSE they are presented

you realize refuse i.e. rubbish is called that BECAUSE its refused. Presents are called presents BECAUSE they are presented
Which is the exact reason why it is so vexing that they're pronounced differently. :p

Incredibly enough, the first one could actually be deciphered by a German speaker; here, nail varnish is "Nagellack" and cockroach is "Kakerlake".


I was able to decipher it to, nowing both danish and some german
in danish, the worda are kakkerlak and negellak :P

speaking of english: Is it true that you must say "he put his hand in his pocket"?

Yup. English lacks a reflexive possessive pronoun for the third person. In Swedish for instance "Han lade handen i sin ficka" means "he put his hand in his pocket," i.e. his own pocket, while "han lade handen i hans ficka" also means "he put his hand in his pocket," but in some other man's pocket.

"Sin" = reflexive possessive pronoun, "hans" = his, i.e. someone else's than the subject's.

Yup. English lacks a reflexive possessive pronoun for the third person. In Swedish for instance "Han lade handen i sin ficka" means "he put his hand in his pocket," i.e. his own pocket, while "hand lade handen i hans ficka" also means "he put his hand in his pocket," but in some other man's pocket.

"Sin" = reflexive possessive pronoun, "hans" = his, i.e. someone else's than the subject's.

yep, exactly the same in danish :) you may have the poorest soccer team ever but the language owns ;)

english lack a total neutral word to reference to somebode or a group of people. not sure how to explain, so an example:
In danish we have the word "man" that can be used refer to yourself, somebody else, everybody, a group of people og anything like that

One might say that "one" may be used to fulfill that function.

One might say that "one" may be used to fulfill that function.

yeah, but one is not total natural, it does give som "hints" toward yourself. or, that is what I learn at my english lessons, at least.

It might be less confusing if English had an equivalent of "estar".

yeah, but one is not total natural, it does give som "hints" toward yourself. or, that is what I learn at my english lessons, at least.

I'm no English teacher, but I don't really see how "one" implies oneself anymore than "man". My advice is, in any case, to pinch your English teacher's nose and run screaming from the classroom.

Also, passive constructions can be used to avoid the whole issue. In most cases.

I'm no English teacher, but I don't really see how "one" implies oneself anymore than "man". My advice is, in any case, to pinch your English teacher's nose and run screaming from the classroom.

Also, passive constructions can be used to avoid the whole issue. In most cases.

the "man" i refered to is the danish word "man" not the english :)

And, as you can see from my posts, i really dont pay that much attentention in my english lessons :p

edit:
and please, no more passive constructs! I have no idea how many lessons we have spend on that now

the "man" i refered to is the danish word "man" not the english :)

I know. You're talking to a fellow Scandinavian;)

There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France (Surprise!). Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat...
A hamburger is prolly named after a place calle Hamburg, thats why its called that.

I know. You're talking to a fellow Scandinavian;)
Ah, I did look after some scandinavian stuff in your location, and I did miss the Tromsø line :P
jeg har faktisk altid ønsket at besøge Tromsø og resten af den side af Norge...
that line in danish to prevent that everybody kno, eh, start think im insane :)

Ah, I did look after some scandinavian stuff in your location, and I did miss the Tromsø line :P
jeg har faktisk altid ønsket at besøge Tromsø og resten af den side af Norge...
that line in danish to prevent that everybody kno, eh, start think im insane :)

Det finst ingen betre stad å vera um sumaren. Men i november kan det vera eit slit å stå opp på mandagar:p Er det ikkje kaldt, så er det vått, og myrkt som natti er det uansett kva for ei tid på dagen det er.

Rough translation of above paragraph:
Heh. I'm just glad you know where Tromsø is.

The Stupid chinese language has 300 characters in its alphabet and the Spanish has 30 or around there. In Spanish they're are 5 different words for "the". Im glad i speak English

the "man" i refered to is the danish word "man" not the english :)

And, as you can see from my posts, i really dont pay that much attentention in my english lessons :p

edit:
and please, no more passive constructs! I have no idea how many lessons we have spend on that now

I'm assuming the 'man' you're meaning is equivalent to the German 'man', or the French 'on' (is it something like 'se' in Spanish?). In English we have 'one', but it certainly wouldn't be used colloquially. It sounds either academic or posh. In normal spoken English, I would probably use 'you', and it would be clear from the emphasis in the sentence whether I meant 'you' -'man', or 'you - 'You'. Unfortunately, though, this isn't always interchangeable with 'one'. It's a grey area. I taught English in Syria and Poland, and this was one of the nasty bits to have to explain.

The other bad bit to deal with was the idea of 'too', like 'This shirt is too big for me'. It seems this is ok in European languages, but in Arabic there's no easily formed way of expressing 'too'. The kids I was teaching always confused 'too' and 'very'. How does it work in your languages?



P.S I completely get what you mean about passive constructions... in all the languages I've learned, when we get to the passive I want to scream.

Det finst ingen betre stad å vera um sumaren. Men i november kan det vera eit slit å stå opp på mandagar:p Er det ikkje kaldt, så er det vått, og myrkt som natti er det uansett kva for ei tid på dagen det er.


Hehe... den største grund til jeg aldrig er kommet afsted er, at jeg ikke kan bestemme mig for om jeg helst vil opleve 24 timers sol eller 24 timers mørke... hmm, må prøve begge dele :D

Hehe... den største grund til jeg aldrig er kommet afsted er, at jeg ikke kan bestemme mig for om jeg helst vil opleve 24 timers sol eller 24 timers mørke... hmm, må prøve begge dele :D

Midtveters er det no nordljos å sjå, og i millum tolv og to på dagen er det litt ljos å sjå komande frå Soli bak horisonten. Om ein ikkje arbeidar eller sitt på skulen då. Så heilt myrkt er det ikkje:) Diverre er det ikkje alltid så kvitt her, sjølv om veteren... Ute ved kysten kan snøen leggja seg to meter tjukt, eller han kan regna heilt bort.

Translation: Come to Norway and see our beautiful fjords. Bring your own food and beware of polar bears.

I completely understand every problem every hispanic person in my school has now.

Wow. Trippy.

A hamburger is prolly named after a place calle Hamburg, thats why its called that.

"Hamburg, Germany made the first hamburgers."

just googled that...

After I read that, I got a migraine. Although, it was worth it.

yea it was a tough read...but funny and worth it.

my contibution......why do you park on a driveway,and drive on parkway?

I'm assuming the 'man' you're meaning is equivalent to the German 'man', or the French 'on' (is it something like 'se' in Spanish?).

sorry, but it some time ago I stopped having german lessons and dont really remember the meaning of "man" in german, but i think you are correct.


It's a grey area. I taught English in Syria and Poland, and this was one of the nasty bits to have to explain.

I do believe you. my teacher said pretty much the same :)


The other bad bit to deal with was the idea of 'too', like 'This shirt is too big for me'. [snip] How does it work in your languages?

we will use "for", which can mean "too" but of cause also a lot of other things :)

arn't danish a part of the european languages, or does we have out own group labeled "scandinavian" :P


P.S I completely get what you mean about passive constructions... in all the languages I've learned, when we get to the passive I want to scream.

Nice to know that I am not alone :)



Midtveters er det no nordljos å sjå, og i millum tolv og to på dagen er det litt ljos å sjå komande frå Soli bak horisonten. Om ein ikkje arbeidar eller sitt på skulen då. Så heilt myrkt er det ikkje Diverre er det ikkje alltid så kvitt her, sjølv om veteren... Ute ved kysten kan snøen leggja seg to meter tjukt, eller han kan regna heilt bort.

Translation: Come to Norway and see our beautiful fjords. Bring your own food and beware of polar bears.


to meter sne lyder heldt vildt - her I Danmark går der aalt for mange år imellem vi har en halv meter... og troede egentlig ikke i var så glade for at folk transporterer madvarer ind i jeres land?

Translation: Come to Denmark, stay at the West Coast and use prober bathing suite, please.

just got this email:
Reasons why the English language is so hard to learn:
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert..
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France (Surprise!). Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat...

Quicksand works slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea or is it a pig. And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?

If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend. If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it? Is it an odd, or an end? If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and wise guy are opposites? You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out, and in which, an alarm goes off by going on.
English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all.

P.S. - Why doesn't "Buick" rhyme with "quick"?

j'aime le français.

Whoops. You just lost points there. French is an even MORE ridiculous language. Seriously, how many vowels do you need, anyway? ANd don't get me started on counting (99 = "four twenties plus nineteen"). ALL languages have their peculiarities. English's is homophones, mostly. The "inVALID" vs. "INvalid" thing comes from Latin, as does French. One syllable accent makes it a noun, the other makes it a verb -- not too hard to grasp, is it?

You ar my hero with that post...
uh... :headbang: (---- english makes me feel like that

I completely understand every problem every hispanic person in my school has now.

Wow. Trippy.
The Koreans at my school do not seem to have problems with it. Although, they are all in ESL and they take it seriously.