NationStates Jolt Archive

Click on the link below. On that page you will find the question "why do the Iraqis hate us?". Click on the Internet explorer or Netscape navigator below it and view the animation. Please tell me if you agree or disagree with the analysis presented by the animation.

http://www.bigbangtango.net/website/index.htm

That was too long and too unfunny to be worth it. Also historically incorrect.

That was too long and too unfunny to be worth it. Also historically incorrect.
It wasn't intended to be funny. I was just wondering if anyone agreed or disagreed with it and why.

Iraqi and French hatred of America is nothing more than externalised self-hatred.

Why does America hate freedom? :confused:

It wasn't intended to be funny. I was just wondering if anyone agreed or disagreed with it and why.

Oh. Well, I disagree with it. People "hate" you because you do shitty things and claim them not to be shitty, insisting on being the "good guys", just like they "hate" the French for doing shitty things and claiming them not to be shitty, while hogging the "good guys" label. Not because of status, because who the fuck cares if you're the top dog du jour? You'll go the way of France eventually, anyway.

yeah... that was a few minutes of my life I'll never get back again, and I'm not happy about it.

It is extremely ignorant to compare the "hatred" the French for us with the hatred the Iraqis have for us. I wouldn't even say the French hate Americans (I have friends who are French and I have been to France and they treat you and get along with you quite well as long as you don't act like the typical boistorous pig-headed American) as much as they hate our government, which is largely about status but also because of differences in values (which is intensified by American's insistence in spreading our culture to the rest of the world). The real hate Iraq has for us is only slightly because of status, more because of huge differences in values, and primarily because of our history over the past several decades of fucking around with their country. We helped Saddam Hussein rise to power and supported him during the 1980s as he commited the various "crimes" that we later condemned him for; then we got involved in a conflict that they believe that we shouldn't have in the first Gulf war and killed tens of thousands, crippled their nations infrastructure, polluted their nation with radioactive uranium, and imposed embargos, and imposed trade restrictions that caused a lack of medication that caused hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children to die. Then we stepped in again in the name of helping the Iraqi people toppled their government (which many did see as a good thing), killed tens of thousands of people, caused further damage to their infrastructure, used even more depleted uranium, led to a complete destablization of their society, and are still occupying their nation killing and terrorizing their people. So no, the Iraqis do not hate us because of status and the French do not hate us in any meaningful way.

Anybody want to give me a quick summary?

Why does America hate freedom? :confused:
Because we've patented it. Other nations using "Freedom" without paying us royalties are violating our intellectual property rights.

Anybody want to give me a quick summary?

Long animation that tries to say that everyone "hates" the US because the US is top dog, and everyone always hates the "top dog," thus not dealing at all with real reasons for the "hatred," such as misdeeds and general crappy behaviour.

It is extremely ignorant to compare the "hatred" the French for us with the hatred the Iraqis have for us. I wouldn't even say the French hate Americans (I have friends who are French and I have been to France and they treat you and get along with you quite well as long as you don't act like the typical boistorous pig-headed American) as much as they hate our government, which is largely about status but also because of differences in values (which is intensified by American's insistence in spreading our culture to the rest of the world). The real hate Iraq has for us is only slightly because of status, more because of huge differences in values, and primarily because of our history over the past several decades of fucking around with their country. We helped Saddam Hussein rise to power and supported him during the 1980s as he commited the various "crimes" that we later condemned him for; then we got involved in a conflict that they believe that we shouldn't have in the first Gulf war and killed tens of thousands, crippled their nations infrastructure, polluted their nation with radioactive uranium, and imposed embargos, and imposed trade restrictions that caused a lack of medication that caused hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children to die. Then we stepped in again in the name of helping the Iraqi people toppled their government (which many did see as a good thing), killed tens of thousands of people, caused further damage to their infrastructure, used even more depleted uranium, led to a complete destablization of their society, and are still occupying their nation killing and terrorizing their people. So no, the Iraqis do not hate us because of status and the French do not hate us in any meaningful way.

Paragraphing is your friend:)
But I pretty much afree with you

Click on the link below. On that page you will find the question "why do the Iraqis hate us?". Click on the Internet explorer or Netscape navigator below it and view the animation. Please tell me if you agree or disagree with the analysis presented by the animation.

http://www.bigbangtango.net/website/index.htm
It is obvious why Iraqis hate the US and I don't believe that it has anything to do with status.

As far as the French are concerned, who knows? I had heard that the French disliked Americans because of their perceived arrogance? On an 8 hour stop over in Paris, I took a bus from the airport to the Eiffel Tower. While on the bus, I struck up a conversation with a French man, and part of the discussion was about Americans. He confirmed what I had heard before, stating that most French people don't like the arrogance of Americans.

Why do Americans hate the French and the Iraqis?

It is obvious why Iraqis hate the US and I don't believe that it has anything to do with status.

As far as the French are concerned, who knows? I had heard that the French disliked Americans because of their perceived arrogance? On an 8 hour stop over in Paris, I took a bus from the airport to the Eiffel Tower. While on the bus, I struck up a conversation with a French man, and part of the discussion was about Americans. He confirmed what I had heard before, stating that most French people don't like the arrogance of Americans.

Why do Americans hate the French and the Iraqis?
The vast majority of Americans don't hate Iraqis.

A fairly large minority of Americans hat the French because they percieve France as being a second-rate power, not particularly good at anything, that still wants to act like an authority on the world stage and looks down at Americans as ignorant barbarians.

Why do Americans hate the French and the Iraqis?
Because the smell funny and they're here. Well, not "here" in a here sense, but here in the global sense, meaning that they need to get off of my fucking planet! What good is cultural imperialism and being evil and nasty if you can't get the foriegners to go away?
Well, except for Turkey, as they need to stick around until I can get a proper bootleg of 'Valley of the Wolves.'

The vast majority of Americans don't hate Iraqis.

A fairly large minority of Americans hat the French because they percieve France as being a second-rate power, not particularly good at anything, that still wants to act like an authority on the world stage and looks down at Americans as ignorant barbarians.

I think "hate" is too strong a word

true, there are Americans whom France irks, but when you get right down to it, they're one of our strongest allies. So we occasionally have catty ideological/political/diplomatic feuds... but what're those between friendly cousins? In the end, France is still one of our top friends.

It wasn't intended to be funny. I was just wondering if anyone agreed or disagreed with it and why.I disagreed that Babylon was islamic at the time it was at the top...

Other than that, I hate it when people pronounce "status" like that...

I disagreed that Babylon was islamic at the time it was at the top...

Other than that, I hate it when people pronounce "status" like that...

...were they known as Chaldeans when they were strongest?

Funny, I thought it was the Americans who hated the French.

The Iraqis don't like us because we've just fucked them over for the second time in twenty years. The French don't like us because they feel that they would dominate Europe if we weren't around; the sad part being that these days, that would actually be the Germans.

We helped Saddam Hussein rise to power

-Not true, actually. The US had nothing to do with the Baathist coup against the monarchy, or Saddam's rise in the party. We did aid him in the war against Iran, but given the situation, that was probably justified.

the reason everyone (yes everyone, not just france and iraq) hates america has nothing to do with so-called status in the world, no-one minds china who are clearly the up and coming next superpower, the list of reasons you get on everyones nerves is too long but shall give you a taster,

The obvious one is how the american foreign policy seems to be "everyones business is our business" where you repeatedly start wars and leave drastically unstable ruins behind you, the video mentioned how if you stay in iraq they are angry, but if you leave ther will be civil war BUT IF YOU HAD NEVER GONE THERE, THEY WOULD BE MUCH BETTER OFF. saddam was bad, but you dont understand what you have done.

NO SUICIDE BOMBERS EVER ATTACKED SADDAM, wonder why? because they didnt want him dead as much as they want your troops.

but no, wait the list goes on!

(there will be some generalisaions, ok quite alot, but i'm sure you can understand, or even relate to, what i'm getting at here)

2. The russians won the war.

3. Your ridiculously emphatic degradation of society. Everything is about making money. If you slip on a banana skin in some shop, why should they pay you millions of dollars, you didnt lose millions of dollars, so why are you entitled to it!

4. America is so inward looking, you dont seem to care about anywhere else in the world, its true that 15% of U.S. school children cant find america on a world map! everything done on an international stage by the US is purely for its own benefit (or more recently, to keep George W. amused)

5. You drive everywhere, why drive to your neighbours, why drive 400m metres, do you even knoe the names of those spiney things coming out of your hips?

6. you voted for G. W. Bush, you actually drove down to a polling station, and said you would vote for what is possibly one of the stupidest men alive ot be put in charge of not only your country but one of the worlds largest armed forces, why, why would you do thst, why?

7. Obesity, you have issues if you can sit and eat so much that you have rolls of fat. Why dont you just stop eating? you can ramble on about genetics and big bones all you like, but the odds are if you are tellin the truth at least two of your parents and/or granparents will also have the same problem (and thats assuming that the obese gene is not dominant)

8. Its just a flag, get over it, i'll burn what i wanna burn

9. Racial and National sterotypes, you just make them constantly, not everyones the same you know... i know that, and i realise that whjat i'm saying won't apply to all americans, but it applies to enough to put me off going there.

10. Racism 1 in 3 black people go to jail? thats ridiculous,thats appaling america is a terribly racist country, its terrible, black people do not commit any more crimes with custodial sentences that white people.

11. You ruin the enviroment, big cars etc. yes i know the theories for global warmong arent watertight, but is that a risk you are willing to take!?

12. You but in on the rest of the worlds business, leave us alone, we dont like you.

13. You hate everyone else, why shouldnt we hate you

14. Arrogance, your not the civilised country im the world, so dont kid yourselves.

Not true, actually. The US had nothing to do with the Baathist coup against the monarchy, or Saddam's rise in the party. We did aid him in the war against Iran, but given the situation, that was probably justified.
Here is how it really went down.

Iraq was under a PM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Karim_Kasim) who had achieved independence and sovereignty. Everyone liked him, except some in the military and the CIA. Because this PM at the time looked at the developing world and they were doing well with Socialism. So he decided the Soviets would be good friends.
At that time, Ba'ath was a movement of nationalistic socialists (not Nazis), who would beat up and intimidate. Saddam was a henchman there, usually used for nasty things like interrogation.

Cue military coup, getting in a bunch of military leaders. I think it's pretty clear that the CIA was involved with that. Ba'ath had helped with the coup, and for a few months was part of government. But their violent hunt for commies (again, probably with lists of names provided by the CIA) became so savage that the military leaders distanced themselves from Ba'ath, and Saddam went to jail for a while.

But again the military leaders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_ar-Rahman_Arif) turned to the Soviets moreso than being a willing helper/puppet of the US in their "war on communism". So again there was a revolution (the connection between this one and the CIA is probably weaker, but it is clear they weren't exactly being fond enough of the Generals to help them) and Ba'ath came out on top. Saddam was now vice-president.

Then he got the leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Hassan_al-Bakr) out of the way and took over himself, playing a very clever game of not being a puppet of either side. He was being nasty to his people, but neither the Russians nor the Americans cared very much, because he always played it to look like he was on their side.

Then the USSR collapsed, Iran was contained and all of a sudden Saddam wasn't useful anymore. Some say Kuwait was a US-orchestrated trap, but whatever it was, it was a justification for the US to try and get that guy out of the way. But they didn't. That time.

So I'm pretty sure the US was involved, although they didn't install him as such.

I disagreed that Babylon was islamic at the time it was at the top...

What? Just because it was on top somewhere between 1000-2000 years (a mere 1000-2000 years, I might add) before Muhammad even was born, you don't think it was islamic?! Clearly, someone is lacking in their knowledge of history. :p And it ain't Laerod, I can tell you...

And on the link: Oversimplified and incorrect. 'nuff said.

5. You drive everywhere, why drive to your neighbours, why drive 400m metres, do you even knoe the names of those spiney things coming out of your hips?
That was way too funny!!! :D

Here is how it really went down.

Iraq was under a PM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Karim_Kasim) who had achieved independence and sovereignty. Everyone liked him, except some in the military and the CIA. Because this PM at the time looked at the developing world and they were doing well with Socialism. So he decided the Soviets would be good friends.
At that time, Ba'ath was a movement of nationalistic socialists (not Nazis), who would beat up and intimidate. Saddam was a henchman there, usually used for nasty things like interrogation.

Cue military coup, getting in a bunch of military leaders. I think it's pretty clear that the CIA was involved with that. Ba'ath had helped with the coup, and for a few months was part of government. But their violent hunt for commies (again, probably with lists of names provided by the CIA) became so savage that the military leaders distanced themselves from Ba'ath, and Saddam went to jail for a while.

But again the military leaders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_ar-Rahman_Arif) turned to the Soviets moreso than being a willing helper/puppet of the US in their "war on communism". So again there was a revolution (the connection between this one and the CIA is probably weaker, but it is clear they weren't exactly being fond enough of the Generals to help them) and Ba'ath came out on top. Saddam was now vice-president.

Then he got the leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Hassan_al-Bakr) out of the way and took over himself, playing a very clever game of not being a puppet of either side. He was being nasty to his people, but neither the Russians nor the Americans cared very much, because he always played it to look like he was on their side.

Then the USSR collapsed, Iran was contained and all of a sudden Saddam wasn't useful anymore. Some say Kuwait was a US-orchestrated trap, but whatever it was, it was a justification for the US to try and get that guy out of the way. But they didn't. That time.

So I'm pretty sure the US was involved, although they didn't install him as such.
I believe there is a lot of revelance to this story.....also nice song by Bing Crosby:

Thanks For the Memories (http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html)

Thanks For the Memories (http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html)
That's neat.

When will you stop beating your wife?

-Not true, actually. The US had nothing to do with the Baathist coup against the monarchy, or Saddam's rise in the party. We did aid him in the war against Iran, but given the situation, that was probably justified.
I like how CH's since-provided video link clearly reduces this bit of verbal wankery to rubble.

Oh boy. Once again the "why do you hate us" idiotic question that pressuposes that there IS a hatred (Dubya's plan of making disagreement = hatred at work) causes people to ask this kind of stupid, specious question that pressuposes lies. Very well, to those that ask us why do we hate America, I reply:

Why don't you stop raping your 4-year old sister?

My 2 cents on the hatred:

We don't hate Iraqis. We DO hate suicide bombers!

We don't really hate the French, but we're annoyed because they're the only people more arrogant than we are.

The French probably don't really hate us, but they miss being important. We ARE important and we rub their faces in that fact, since we're almost as obnoxious as the French.

The Iraqis probably have mixed feelings about us. We kicked Saddam out of power, but we made many mistakes in the process. Many of the Iraqis percieve us as a bunch of foriegners, unjustly occupying their country (I can't imagine why).

Why do the Iraqis and French hate the US?If I was Iraqi I would hate the US.. If I was Afghan I would hate the US.. If I was Palestinean I would hate the US.. If I was Bolivian I would hate the US.. etc,etc,etc

If I was French.. I would NOT "hate" any particular country.
I Woult think US citizens are idiots.. for reelecting the Chimp.. but I would not "hate"

If I was Iraqi I would hate Bush.. and the USians for reelecting him...

If I was French.. I would not "hate" any particular country.If I was human, I'd hate US forign policy. If I was an American, or had the slightest bit of sympathy for Americans, I'd hate everything about US government.

I'm human, and I do have some sympathy for Americans.

I don't think it is a stretch, but Bush reminds the French of their own problems at home. They have a very strong racist right-wing party in their country, that I am sure that a majority of the French find embarassing.

When they see right-wing bigotry they point to the US as an example of why it should not be implemented at home. (The right in France is probably further than Pat Buchanan).

Also why haven't the Americans learnt from Frances struggles with religion and how it ruined their government.


(=America the second most religious nation in the world=)

the reason everyone (yes everyone, not just france and iraq) hates america has nothing to do with so-called status in the world, no-one minds china who are clearly the up and coming next superpower, the list of reasons you get on everyones nerves is too long but shall give you a taster,

The obvious one is how the american foreign policy seems to be "everyones business is our business" where you repeatedly start wars and leave drastically unstable ruins behind you, the video mentioned how if you stay in iraq they are angry, but if you leave ther will be civil war BUT IF YOU HAD NEVER GONE THERE, THEY WOULD BE MUCH BETTER OFF. saddam was bad, but you dont understand what you have done.

NO SUICIDE BOMBERS EVER ATTACKED SADDAM, wonder why? because they didnt want him dead as much as they want your troops.

but no, wait the list goes on!

(there will be some generalisaions, ok quite alot, but i'm sure you can understand, or even relate to, what i'm getting at here)

2. The russians won the war.

3. Your ridiculously emphatic degradation of society. Everything is about making money. If you slip on a banana skin in some shop, why should they pay you millions of dollars, you didnt lose millions of dollars, so why are you entitled to it!

4. America is so inward looking, you dont seem to care about anywhere else in the world, its true that 15% of U.S. school children cant find america on a world map! everything done on an international stage by the US is purely for its own benefit (or more recently, to keep George W. amused)

5. You drive everywhere, why drive to your neighbours, why drive 400m metres, do you even knoe the names of those spiney things coming out of your hips?

6. you voted for G. W. Bush, you actually drove down to a polling station, and said you would vote for what is possibly one of the stupidest men alive ot be put in charge of not only your country but one of the worlds largest armed forces, why, why would you do thst, why?

7. Obesity, you have issues if you can sit and eat so much that you have rolls of fat. Why dont you just stop eating? you can ramble on about genetics and big bones all you like, but the odds are if you are tellin the truth at least two of your parents and/or granparents will also have the same problem (and thats assuming that the obese gene is not dominant)

8. Its just a flag, get over it, i'll burn what i wanna burn

9. Racial and National sterotypes, you just make them constantly, not everyones the same you know... i know that, and i realise that whjat i'm saying won't apply to all americans, but it applies to enough to put me off going there.

10. Racism 1 in 3 black people go to jail? thats ridiculous,thats appaling america is a terribly racist country, its terrible, black people do not commit any more crimes with custodial sentences that white people.

11. You ruin the enviroment, big cars etc. yes i know the theories for global warmong arent watertight, but is that a risk you are willing to take!?

12. You but in on the rest of the worlds business, leave us alone, we dont like you.

13. You hate everyone else, why shouldnt we hate you

14. Arrogance, your not the civilised country im the world, so dont kid yourselves.
I think I'm going with this being the actual reasons.:p

I don't think it is a stretch, but Bush reminds the French of their own problems at home. They have a very strong racist right-wing party in their country, that I am sure that a majority of the French find embarassing.

When they see right-wing bigotry they point to the US as an example of why it should not be implemented at home. (The right in France is probably further than Pat Buchanan).

Also why haven't the Americans learnt from Frances struggles with religion and how it ruined their government.


(=America the second most religious nation in the world=)Good point. Though I'm neither French nor living there, I feel the same.

Pray tell, which is the most religious nation? - I could have sword it was America.

Good point. Though I'm neither French nor living there, I feel the same.

Pray tell, which is the most religious nation? - I could have sword it was America.

Iran & Saudi Arabia are both more religious than America. I suspect a lot of Muslim countries are more religious than we are.

Pray tell, which is the most religious nation? - I could have sword it was America.OK.. allow me to add my 2 cents.. (God knows I hate to talk about religion)

I have traveled world and the seven seas.. and this I can tell you:

I would not call the US "the most religious nation".. the not even the most Christian nation (That would be the Philippines)

But I would say US citizens are the most passionate about Religion issues.. to the ridicule..
Hell even atheists are passionate about their "religion".. Can you fucking believe that???

(=America the second most religious nation in the world=)

We are almost certainly the most religious first world nation in the world; but when all nations are considered we are far from the top.

Iran & Saudi Arabia are both more religious than America. I suspect a lot of Muslim countries are more religious than we are.Do you have some sort of source you can share?

- A few years ago, a study listed America as both the most religious nation & the most orthodox. I'll see if I can find it soemwhere online, and I'm completely aware things might have changed since then.. But I would expect they'd changed towards more religion in the US & less elsewhere. I'm a bit surprised by your claim, really - but hope you're right about it.

Edit: Aha! I have debunked myself :p

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/wtwtgod/3490490.stm

I disagree with the analysis presented in the animation. I also think the overall presentation style was a poor choice for this particular point of view.

To limit it to France and Iraq is racist, you forgot most of the middle east, all of Asia and Mexico too.Muslims hate us because the country is 87% Christian and Christians put Jews back on "Muslim land" after WWII.

Muslims hate us because the country is 87% Christian and Christians put Jews back on "Muslim land" after WWII.There is countries with 90-99% Christian pops..
But (unlike the US)those Countries do not pay for the Jewish Tanks and Bombs.. So the Palestineans do not hate those "Christian" states..

The French don't like us because they feel that they would dominate Europe if we weren't around; the sad part being that these days, that would actually be the Germans.

Not really; The germans already tried that twice, and failed, remember?

The Germans don't have the airforce to do any such thing. No signifigant aircraft or aircraft munitions industry, no mentionable pilot training(first world standard... thats about it), No extensive real life training, decent numbers(but F-4's and Tornado's are hardly world class). The germans don't have AWACS, no strong aircraft inventors, and could be blocked off from most shipped parts from the west, as their navy is quite weak as well.

Through naval and airpower, the german military could be beat by the French, British, Russians, and Israeli's, if they could land their planes somewhere in range. This doesn't mention militaries who are in asia(other than israel), or the US(Or probably Australia, for that matter).

I disagree with the analysis presented in the animation. I also think the overall presentation style was a poor choice for this particular point of view.
How about some text then?

Regime Change: How the CIA put Saddam's Party in Power (http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html)

The Germans don't have the airforce to do any such thing...
It's all fully NATO integrated, as was German policy since 1955. The transformation is going on, but still always to be used in a framework of going along with allies. It's not meant to be the sort of rule-the-world military that the US, Britain or France have.

How about some text then?

Regime Change: How the CIA put Saddam's Party in Power (http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html)
:confused: I'm confused as to what your point is:confused:

Evidently I dont have a problem with the use of animation to present a point, rather the particular style used in this animation to present the particular point was (in my opinion) a poor one.

It's all fully NATO integrated, as was German policy since 1955. The transformation is going on, but still always to be used in a framework of going along with allies. It's not meant to be the sort of rule-the-world military that the US, Britain or France have.

Nor am I saying they would try.

I was simply saying germany doesn't have the capability to do it, if it had the ambition. The german army is quite good, but I think that until it gets the full eurofighter compliment, an AWACS of some sort, and more and/or better training, it won't have an airforce worthy of the name luftwaffe ^_^

The german army is quite good, but I think that until it gets the full eurofighter compliment, an AWACS of some sort, and more and/or better training, it won't have an airforce worthy of the name luftwaffe ^_^
It should be noted though that NATO's European AWACS forces are actually partly under German command, based on a multinational airbase in Germany, and I heard that at least a third of the personnel is German.

http://www.e3a.nato.int/html/organizations2.htm

:confused: I'm confused as to what your point is:confused:

Evidently I dont have a problem with the use of animation to present a point, rather the particular style used in this animation to present the particular point was (in my opinion) a poor one.
The point is why Iraqis hate the US. First they help Saddam obtain power at the cost of many lives and then they take Saddam away again at the cost of many lives.

The point is why Iraqis hate the US. First they help Saddam obtain power at the cost of many lives and then they take Saddam away again at the cost of many lives.
What are you bashing him for?:confused:
He just said he didn't agree with the reasons in the animation and that it was in poor taste.

I for one hate Spain.

What are you bashing him for?:confused:
If you think that is bashing, then you must be a noob? Actually it is called clarification. He made a statement and I merely presented a different format.

He just said he didn't agree with the reasons in the animation and that it was in poor taste.
Actually, he didn't say that at all. What he said is:

I disagree with the analysis presented in the animation. I also think the overall presentation style was a poor choice for this particular point of view.

The point is why Iraqis hate the US. First they help Saddam obtain power at the cost of many lives and then they take Saddam away again at the cost of many lives.
I understood that your post was probably to draw attention to a possible alternative analysis, I just dont get why you quoted my earlier post. Usually one does so due to some specific logical connection between their post and the one they are quoting...mine isnt the only post citing disagreement with the POV/analysis presented in the animation, mine was not the most recent post, so I couldnt figure out your rationale for quoting me...which is why I asked. I still dont see the reason why you quoted my particular comments, (although I have no objection - I just want to make sure I'm not missing some particular point that you intended).

The problem with USA is that they run all this covert operations and sometime the results come back and bite them. They backed Osama and Saddam, who turned on them on the end.

The problem with USA is that they run all this covert operations and sometime the results come back and bite them. They backed Osama and Saddam, who turned on them on the end.

We turned on Saddam, not the other way around.

snip

Sounds all correct. Peopl really think the French hate us? I'm sure they dislike Bush and all he stands for but they can't have anything against us as a people.

Those of us who don't act as the epitome of the Ugly American that is and anyone who used the term "Freedom Fries" that is.:rolleyes:

Click on the link below. On that page you will find the question "why do the Iraqis hate us?". Click on the Internet explorer or Netscape navigator below it and view the animation. Please tell me if you agree or disagree with the analysis presented by the animation.

http://www.bigbangtango.net/website/index.htm


dont u see??? if it so hard to look at it? if your a american and u like bush yes its hard to see but if your fro ma different place OUSIDE of america u would see that not only the french and iraq ppl hate u but its nearly every1, im not sayin all americans are bad but people have gotten the bad image of america from the decisions bush has made and movies such as Bowling For Columbine and Farenhight9/11... there is alot of phsycological stuff here...

for the people who have wathced those 2 movis u would see what im talking about.. IF U DIDNT WATCH IT GODAMIT!:p

Would this be the same France whose leading patriotic newspaper not long ago lead with the headline of We're All American Now'?

There are many people who disagree with George Bush in many ways. Many of them, like myself, are rather pro-Americans. That we are dismissed as anti-American reflects how many with a Republican viewpoint tend to see Republicanism and Americanism as synonymous.

Iraqi and French hatred of America is nothing more than externalised self-hatred.

While on the bus, I struck up a conversation with a French man, and part of the discussion was about Americans. He confirmed what I had heard before, stating that most French people don't like the arrogance of Americans.

The irony! Most other, smaller countries don't like France or America because we see the same arrogance in both countries.

(=America the second most religious nation in the world=)
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Nepal, etc etc?

But I would say US citizens are the most passionate about Religion issues.. to the ridicule..
Hell even atheists are passionate about their "religion".. Can you fucking believe that???
That's because US culture appears to emphasise pride. Americans think they should be proud of everything about themselves, even if its something they didn't personally do anything to create.

Do you have some sort of source you can share?
I'm a bit surprised by your claim, really - but hope you're right about it.

Edit: Aha! I have debunked myself :p

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/wtwtgod/3490490.stm
You know that in Iran and Saudia Arabia, the government is largely made up of Muslim leaders, right? That's much more religious than anything America has.

Your BBC study is also pointless, because they only surveyed ten nations, not every country in the world.

I imagine that my own country has as high if not higher levels of Christian belief in God than the USA. Irish people just have less of a tendency to throw hissy fits about religion than Americans and various Muslims.

It is interesting that Nigeria has such high levels of belief. Nigeria is one of the most religiously divided countries in the world.

It is extremely ignorant to compare the "hatred" the French for us with the hatred the Iraqis have for us. I wouldn't even say the French hate Americans (I have friends who are French and I have been to France and they treat you and get along with you quite well as long as you don't act like the typical boistorous pig-headed American) as much as they hate our government, which is largely about status but also because of differences in values (which is intensified by American's insistence in spreading our culture to the rest of the world). The real hate Iraq has for us is only slightly because of status, more because of huge differences in values, and primarily because of our history over the past several decades of fucking around with their country. We helped Saddam Hussein rise to power and supported him during the 1980s as he commited the various "crimes" that we later condemned him for; then we got involved in a conflict that they believe that we shouldn't have in the first Gulf war and killed tens of thousands, crippled their nations infrastructure, polluted their nation with radioactive uranium, and imposed embargos, and imposed trade restrictions that caused a lack of medication that caused hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children to die. Then we stepped in again in the name of helping the Iraqi people toppled their government (which many did see as a good thing), killed tens of thousands of people, caused further damage to their infrastructure, used even more depleted uranium, led to a complete destablization of their society, and are still occupying their nation killing and terrorizing their people. So no, the Iraqis do not hate us because of status and the French do not hate us in any meaningful way.

Thank you for your words. It proves to me that its not the american people as a whole who are idiots only those we too often hear voicing their double standard bullshit to themselves and the rest of the world. Actually theres idiots in every country, its just that the US is more visible than any other nation.

I do not hate Americans, but I do hate your president and the international politics that the US government has run for the last fifty or so years.
And yeah, I am not French nor Iraqi, theres many more countries in the world, where the average person hate the (at least current) regime of the US.