NationStates Jolt Archive

I was looking at the pole results on the "Ireland come back" thread and was astonished to discover that the vast majority on the forum (at this stage in the thread anyway) wish that Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland should reunite. However currently, the majority of N.Ireland residents want to remain part of the UK so I cant see why people think in this manner. Also, we all know what will happen to the Protestant community in N.Ireland if they were to reunite. Most likly they would be treeted to the same instiutional discrimination against them that the Catholics were in N.Irealnd during the 50's up to the late 80's. The Protestants have got better in N.Irleand now and stoped that but there are still many Catholics from the days of discrimination feeling very bitter and wishing to enact revenge on the Protestants for what they did. All I can see is if N.I wishes to remain part of the UK why shouldnt they be?

Oh, those poor protestants. My heart weeps for them.

If the whole peace process collapses again, I'd rather there were unionists bombing Ireland than republicans bombing England. So I guess my answer is 'shameless self-interest'.

Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales should all be given independance from England.

This is my firm position. The whole idea of 'union' is silly in light of the EU.

-snip-
It's time Great Britain people decided they don't want Ulster. In fact, most British government could've done without it. Protestant paranoia and Cromwellianism are embarassing for any state.
Make it point that way, and you'll have a solution. I'm sure most people in Burkina would want their country to be a US state, but it takes two to tango.

Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales should all be given independance from England.

This is my firm position. The whole idea of 'union' is silly in light of the EU.

these nations arent under the oppression of england!

Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales should all be given independance from England.

This is my firm position. The whole idea of 'union' is silly in light of the EU.

where is the reasoning behind that technically Scotland owns England

Also independence from England wtf?

I'm in favour of a United Ireland. Obviously through politics alone, dont let the name fool you. I think that peace must come first, but that whilst many protestants in the north wish to remain part of the Union, the UK discriminates against them. No company offers include northern ireland, and economic dependances on the UK that are no longer neccessary because of the European Union can be safely gotten rid of. Ulster is Irish, it is protestant Irish, but Irish none the less, the language, the culture etc. I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt to the Catholic community, and say that should a Union be invoked, they wont treat the Prods badly. Otherwise a crazy distrust and hatred is allowed to be cultivated.

Its never black and white though, so the process wouldnt be easy.

It's time Great Britain people decided they don't want Ulster. In fact, most British government could've done without it. Protestant paranoia and Cromwellianism are embarassing for any state.
Make it point that way, and you'll have a solution. I'm sure most people in Burkina would want their country to be a US state, but it takes two to tango.

are you suggesting we ditch NI because it has problems?

I'm in favour of a United Ireland. Obviously through politics alone, dont let the name fool you. I think that peace must come first, but that whilst many protestants in the north wish to remain part of the Union, the UK discriminates against them. No company offers include northern ireland, and economic dependances on the UK that are no longer neccessary because of the European Union can be safely gotten rid of. Ulster is Irish, it is protestant Irish, but Irish none the less, the language, the culture etc. I think we have to give the benefit of the doubt to the Catholic community, and say that should a Union be invoked, they wont treat the Prods badly. Otherwise a crazy distrust and hatred is allowed to be cultivated.

Its never black and white though, so the process wouldnt be easy.

But if the N.Irish want to remain British, why should then not be allowed to be.

Theres no reason why not, it is a free country after all, but i think that because of the growing catholic population (about 40% and rising in that Province) that soon enough, if another refurendum is held, the population will vote to Unify with ireland. Not for decades probably, but it is an inexorable slide.

Theres no reason why not, it is a free country after all, but i think that because of the growing catholic population (about 40% and rising in that Province) that soon enough, if another refurendum is held, the population will vote to Unify with ireland. Not for decades probably, but it is an inexorable slide.

why do you think all Catholics want to unify Ireland?

Sooner or later the catholics will be in the majority and they will push for a referendum which they will win.As for Paisley and the (un)Democratoic Unionists well they can go to the special prt of hell that has been reserved for them(just beside the bit where all the Popes are according to Dante)

as a Catholic living in Dublin i think ireland should reunite , but i am not in favour of orange order marching in dublin, seems i am not the only one .........

But if the N.Irish want to remain British, why should then not be allowed to be.
Because they don't all want to remain British. Some do, some don't and some couldn't care less.

I wouldn't wish the North upon the Republic, to be honest. It is a desolate land where the greatest goal a young person has is to leave, one way or another.

Sooner or later the catholics will be in the majority and they will push for a referendum which they will win.As for Paisley and the (un)Democratoic Unionists well they can go to the special prt of hell that has been reserved for them(just beside the bit where all the Popes are according to Dante)

see post 12

are you suggesting we ditch NI because it has problems?
I'm suggesting you ditch it because you have no reason being there to begin with.
First of all, the "religious" problem was created in the weirdest fashion. England dumped its unconfortable Jesus freaks in there, as much as it did in America. Those people were very arguably "loyal" to the British monarchy until the Orange dinasty took over. They have always been benefitting from immense privilege, and ruled over a marginalized Catholic majority.
In spite of this, the movement for independence and then Home Rule were transconfessional - Parnell was Protestant, so was Wolfe Tone. People fought together against British rule.
The one thing that the UK did for a full century afterwards was to sever the links, and they introduced the concept that Protestant zones should have separate functions in the future. This role as a fifth column became more important, and well included with the protestant community after the IRA turned itself more and more catholic, and especially after the split with Michael Collins, the coming to power of Valera, and the terrorism of the Provisional Irish Republican Army. This would be an excuse, because the protestants have continued to be privileged, and have just as well turned violent. At the same time, nationalism and socialism - which are inclusive ideals - have never left the plans of the republicans. It's not really "catholics" opposed to "protestant" - it's "Irish identity" vs. "Protestant identity".

In the last decades, the stupid imperial policy of the British government has turned against itself. Not to mention that it doesn't serve any purpose anymore. Britain doesn't want, doesn't need, and will never get, a foothold in Ireland.
The Protestants better think about how they'll fit in the Republic.

why do you think all Catholics want to unify Ireland?
Why do you think all Protestants don't?

Can NI have a referendum to see whether the majority want to be independent or part of the republic? Scotland had two (70's and 90's) but all we got was devolution (and what a puppet parliament we have now!)
Really when it comes down to it, it should be the nations decision whether they become part of the republic or part of britain. And once that's done, it's done, stop the fighting and move on

where is the reasoning behind that technically Scotland owns England

Also independence from England wtf?

Much as I like the idea, how exactly does Scotland own England?

Much as I like the idea, how exactly does Scotland own England?

James the VI of scotland took england and became James I of england, but really the whole of england is run by germans aren't they?

James the VI of scotland took england and became James I of england, but really the whole of england is run by germans aren't they?

The royal line of the Stuarts was ended when the English called in William of Orange from the Netherlands to rule England/Scotland though.

Why do you think all Protestants don't?

where did I post that?

Most people in Great Britain don't want Northern Ireland. Most people in the Republic are not as concerned as you might imagine.

It's time Great Britain people decided they don't want Ulster. In fact, most British government could've done without it. Protestant paranoia and Cromwellianism are embarassing for any state.
Make it point that way, and you'll have a solution. I'm sure most people in Burkina would want their country to be a US state, but it takes two to tango.

Because they don't all want to remain British. Some do, some don't and some couldn't care less.

I wouldn't wish the North upon the Republic, to be honest. It is a desolate land where the greatest goal a young person has is to leave, one way or another.


?

..erm, I assume that is humour?

where did I post that?
If you didn't say that, then what was the point of your question? Won't Catholics against union be compensated by Protestants in favor of it?

In the last decades, the stupid imperial policy of the British government has turned against itself. Not to mention that it doesn't serve any purpose anymore. Britain doesn't want, doesn't need, and will never get, a foothold in Ireland.
The Protestants better think about how they'll fit in the Republic.

so your saying that though NI's people want to remain in the U.K we should kick them out anyway

also even if we are cruel enough to kick them out what makes you think they will join EIRE or even co-exist with the nation?

The royal line of the Stuarts was ended when the English called in William of Orange from the Netherlands to rule England/Scotland though.

Yeah but the queen is windsor now, but was sax-choen-berg or somethin' until WW2 - they changed it so they wouldn't look stoopid fighting against their own people

If you didn't say that, then what was the point of your question? Won't Catholics against union be compensated by Protestants in favor of it?

I was stating that religion no longer has a place in Irish politics and so the growing catholic population (that you stated would lead to more support for unification) isn't the case at all

so your saying that though NI's people want to remain in the U.K we should kick them out anyway

also even if we are cruel enough to kick them out what makes you think they will join EIRE or even co-exist with the nation?
Why did you kick White Rhodesia or the Cape? They sure didn't want to go. Why the hell is it that you have the Commonwealth around? Is it not so that you still have ties with your former subjects?

I have posted why I think they could co-exist. Again, it is only stupid assumptions that keep them apart. If the NI want to stick to that, let them. What I said is that the UK should get out. If the NI don't wanna be part of the EU, don't have a UK economy to parasite, and express their national wealth only in unemployment figures, I say "Ireland is the way". If they still don't wanna believe me, I couldn't care less.

I was stating that religion no longer has a place in Irish politics

Yeah, and I'm the new pope.

and so the growing catholic population (that you stated would lead to more support for unification) isn't the case at all


Actually, that was not me.

Yeah, and I'm the new pope.

:eek: really! how do you find the time to post on here?

the commonwealth consists of the former British empire because the Queen is still the head of state to most of the nations and that its a select club were we look out for each other (much like the E.U)

you seem to have very harsh views of what goes on in N.I I suggest you visit it sometime

:eek: really! how do you find the time to post on here?

the commonwealth consists of the former British empire because the Queen is still the head of state to most of the nations and that its a select club were we look out for each other (much like the E.U)

you seem to have very harsh views of what goes on in N.I I suggest you visit it sometime

If you will excuse my pedentry, are there not a couple of countries in the Commonweath that were not part of the Empire? Mozambique springs to mind.

Anyway, yes Ireland and the American colonies can rejoin GB if they like; both are equally likely.

As long as we never lose India, eh?

:eek: really! how do you find the time to post on here?

the commonwealth consists of the former British empire because the Queen is still the head of state to most of the nations and that its a select club were we look out for each other (much like the E.U)

you seem to have very harsh views of what goes on in N.I I suggest you visit it sometime
Thank you, I know perfectly well what the Commonwealth is. I don't see why NI wouldn't fit in there. Perhaps, condition Eire's taking over of affairs with its rejoining the Commonwealth (if anyone cares as much).

If you will excuse my pedentry, are there not a couple of countries in the Commonweath that were not part of the Empire? Mozambique springs to mind.
Actually, no. It's not.

I was looking at the pole results on the "Ireland come back" thread and was astonished to discover that the vast majority on the forum (at this stage in the thread anyway) wish that Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland should reunite


the reason why this occured was because very few of the people voting had any idea about why britain had ni or why some n irelanders wanted to remain british which led to a flam war it was fun i was there:D

Actually, no. It's not.

Yes it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique

Yes it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique
Sorry. I did not know that. It is certainly a shock.
Mea culpa.

Because they don't all want to remain British. Some do, some don't and some couldn't care less.

I wouldn't wish the North upon the Republic, to be honest. It is a desolate land where the greatest goal a young person has is to leave, one way or another.

And if the majority want to? What then?

listen, the whole point of a northern ireland is that we have a place to dump all the dickheads and assholes in ireland/britian together. Living in northern ireland, i can see that nobody really cares about whether ireland unites or not, only if they're on the 'right side' people will just argue for the sake of arguing. paisley will probably be one of the first flying the fucking tricolor over his door when the day comes. people are assholes, unionists, loyalists, nationalists and republicans are all asses, we argue for the sake of beinh right, if we win a united ireland they wont care, theyll find something else to bitch about. My friend adds 'schnorgin'

Also, i dont want americans going on about 'the irish revolution' or how great the IRA is, the IRA, UDA, UVF, UFF its all the same fucking thing, people dealing drugs, shooting innocents, vote rigging, terrorising, arse-licking, nose-picking twats fucking around not for some great almighty aim, but for the sheer hard cash they get for it. Brothels, crac houses, loan sharks, its all good ot them so long as they get their percentage.

Can someone fill me in with an idiots guide. I know who the basic parties are (Sinn Fein, IRA, British) and the roles that they play. But how much violence has broken out in Belfast or NI in the past 8 years or so. Were there reprocussions from Omagh. It doesn't seem like the IRA is a violent faction any longer, but has abandon its arms for the political faction of Sinn Fein. Please correct me if I am wrong.
If NI became part of Ireland they would have to adopt the Euro which may or may not adversely effect the economy. Do they carry the British pound there now? A lot of times these decisions can be enonomical shrouded in politics, further shrouded in religion. I may be wrong on that too. Like I said, I do not know much about the region. Just guessing. Please fill me in.

by the way, im not being nasty, just realistic. A united ireland would be in our best interest economically, but politically....well....nobody really gives a shit, its all about who wants their spot in the sun, paisley, adams and all the other poiliticians all just take the piss, claiming to represent the two communities, but none really do, if there were parties that fairlyt represented everyone the summer riots last year wouldnt have happened in unionist areas and the nationalists would have shut down the IRA ages ago. Anyways, just a little note for you to think about :sniper:

hey maya, just so you know, the IRA hasnt officially disbanded, so the unionists refused to co-operate, also, like i said, all the political parties are wankers. minority parties ( Alliance, Green, Socialist, etc.) are the only truly fair ones, as they have no one sided, simplistic view on northern ireland, they realise that we're likely to stay in the hsit for a while, so we better get used to it.:headbang:

How much violence has broken out in Belfast or NI in the past 8 years or so.

Apart from a few sporadic riots in the north of the city around marching season in the summer?

None.

It certainly makes geographic sense for there to be a united Erin.

Britain's old boundaries made sense:

Saxons and vikings and Normans drove many of the English Celts into Wales and Scotland (right?)... so you had heavily Celtic (Irish were Celts, and Scotch-Irish came to Scotland from Ireland) Scotland to the north and Wales to the west... while England became a real melting pot with Saxons, Normans, Angles, Jutes, Vikings (call them northern scandinavians -- or Norse -- as Normans were from southern scandinavia, probably Denmark), and the remains of the English Celts and Britons who survived the Saxon/Viking/Norman onslaught.

why do you think all Catholics want to unify Ireland?
Garden variety nationalism.

It certainly makes geographic sense for there to be a united Erin.

Britain's old boundaries made sense:

Saxons and vikings and Normans drove many of the English Celts into Wales and Scotland (right?)... so you had heavily Celtic (Irish were Celts, and Scotch-Irish came to Scotland from Ireland) Scotland to the north and Wales to the west... while England became a real melting pot with Saxons, Normans, Angles, Jutes, Vikings (call them northern scandinavians -- or Norse -- as Normans were from southern scandinavia, probably Denmark), and the remains of the English Celts and Britons who survived the Saxon/Viking/Norman onslaught.


Umm..the Normans were from northern France weren't they,Normandy-Normans?.

I didn't pay much attention in history.:)

Interestingly there's never been an Irish ruled united Ireland. Pre-British invasion (incidentally sanctioned by the erstwhile Pope) Ireland was a number of kingdoms under separate kings, usually warring. Occasionally one was powerful enough to be recognized as the High King of All-Ireland, but this was a bit like being called Bretwalda in 8th century England, you weren't really king of the whole caboodle, just acknowledged as being the strongest.

Northern Ireland will remain British so long as there is a majority who want to remain so. If the demographics shift to >50% wanting to join the Irish Republic I bet there will be a boundary redraw, because the Irish Government will not want a few hundred thousand seriously peed off Unionists with access to guns and whatnot.

Also, we all know what will happen to the Protestant community in N.Ireland if they were to reunite. Most likly they would be treeted to the same instiutional discrimination against them that the Catholics were in N.Irealnd during the 50's up to the late 80's.
No, I don't believe that would happen. We have moved on from that.

I think that Northern Ireland should be a part of whatever country the majority of the people in NI want it to be a part of.

Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales should all be given independance from England.

This is my firm position. The whole idea of 'union' is silly in light of the EU.

Maybe they should. But scotland would crumble, Protestants in N.I. would be harshly oppressed and Wales would revert to that ancient language. Gaellic, is that what it's called?

Personally I believe that the Whole of Ireland should join the UK. The Uk should leave the EU. The scottish and Welsh parliaments should be dissolved and replace our countries current mockery of Devolution with Evolution to progress forward into society.

Maybe they should. But scotland would crumble, Protestants in N.I. would be harshly oppressed and Wales would revert to that ancient language. Gaellic, is that what it's called?

You're... an... idi...

Personally I believe that the Whole of Ireland should join the UK. The Uk should leave the EU. The scottish and Welsh parliaments should be dissolved and replace our countries current mockery of Devolution with Evolution to progress forward into society.

Definately... a... moro...

Wales would revert to that ancient language. Gaellic, is that what it's called?



People in Wales speak Welsh.

You're... an... idi...



Definately... a... moro...

Shall I finish your sntences for you?

You're... an... idi...ot!



Definately... a... moro...n!

Now you can continue the self-hating:p

Umm..the Normans were from northern France weren't they,Normandy-Normans?.

I didn't pay much attention in history.:)
Yes, but they were of norse decent having been given the land by the frankish king, I think it was Charles the Bald or Charles the Fat though I'm blanking on that a bit so if someone knows the correct name I'll bow to that, to keep out other vikings. Their was also a fair amount of viking involvment in Scotland with Danes' settling in the Orkeneies(sp) and at times trying to take control of more of Northern Scotland.

Maybe they should. But scotland would crumble,
Why?
Protestants in N.I. would be harshly oppressed and Wales would revert to that ancient language. Gaellic, is that what it's called?
Why is Wales swiching to Welsh a bad thing?

Personally I believe that the Whole of Ireland should join the UK.
Why?
The Uk should leave the EU. The scottish and Welsh parliaments should be dissolved...
Why?

Why?

Why is Wales swiching to Welsh a bad thing?


Why?

Why?

Use CAPS for tags.

Maybe if the world spoke the more popular languages and important languages we wouldn't have to revive a failing language.

Because I think it should, and it'd be more effective I personally believe.

We should just cut the tax burden on the people and avoid these horrendous assemblies. The houses of parliament are there if you ned dicussion. And it's not a English parliament like the SNP think, it's a British parliament. And I'd like them to stop campaigning for seperation and start working to actually make the country a better place.

Umm..the Normans were from northern France weren't they,Normandy-Normans?.

I didn't pay much attention in history.:)

Normans were descended from southern vikings... North Men

some of them went down to France and founded Normandy in maybe 800-something AD... I think it was either Rollo of Norway who led them down to France or maybe his father. At any rate, William I was a direct descendant of Rollo.

We should just cut the tax burden on the people and avoid these horrendous assemblies. The houses of parliament are there if you ned dicussion. And it's not a English parliament like the SNP think, it's a British parliament. And I'd like them to stop campaigning for seperation and start working to actually make the country a better place.

But they, like the Irish, have had the British "working to actually make the country a better place" for centuries. In the case of Ireland it involved systematic brutal destruction of a way of life, language, and the disenfrachisment of an entire people. No thanks.

Normans were descended from southern vikings... North Men

some of them went down to France and founded Normandy in maybe 800-something AD... I think it was either Rollo of Norway who led them down to France or maybe his father. At any rate, William I was a direct descendant of Rollo.
I'm pretty sure Haold the Walker was one of the ones who set it up the deal with the Frankish king.

edit: Whoops ust looked it up on Wiki it was Hrolf, knew Harold sounded funny, who was also called Rollo and the French king was Charles the Simple, I knew it was Charles and an unflatering descriptor.

I'm pretty sure Haold the Walker was one of the ones who set it up the deal with the Frankish king.

edit: Whoops ust looked it up on Wiki it was Hrolf, knew Harold sounded funny, who was also called Rollo and the French king was Charles the Simple, I knew it was Charles and an unflatering descriptor.

just looked it up:

"Rolf the Ganger" AKA "Rollo of Norway" (Rollo Ragnvaldsson, 870-932) was the First Duke of Normandy.

just looked it up:

"Rolf the Ganger" AKA "Rollo of Norway" (Rollo Ragnvaldsson, 870-932) was the First Duke of Normandy.
Yep with Ganger meaning Walker a name he got because he was suposedly to tall to ride a horse.

Yep with Ganger meaning Walker a name he got because he was suposedly to tall to ride a horse.

someone in that family was called Longsword... wonder what that referred to.

someone in that family was called Longsword... wonder what that referred to.
The size of his... feet?;)

just looked it up:

"Rolf the Ganger" AKA "Rollo of Norway" (Rollo Ragnvaldsson, 870-932) was the First Duke of Normandy.
Ah, Rollo. One of my ancestors :)

Ah, Rollo. One of my ancestors :)
Do you have big feet?;)

Do you have big feet?;)
No :p

I was looking at the pole results on the "Ireland come back" thread and was astonished to discover that the vast majority on the forum (at this stage in the thread anyway) wish that Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland should reunite. Got a link for that POLL ?

I think that they should but it should be done progressively. If it were a qiuck one day switch than more roits would ensue. I say more because there was a riot earlier today in Dublin. Well, actually it was yesterday but you know what I mean.