NationStates Jolt Archive

I just started reading this book by Tim Flannery called the Weather Makers. Not nearly half way through it and have already found many answers to questions posted on NS threads that have perplexed me on the issue of Global Warming.

Anyone else read this book?

And for those interested:
http://www.thebookstandard.com/bookstandard/news/global/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001391822

And just a little something that was extracted from the book:

It is in the US, and specifically in the Bush Administration and its industry supporters, that the opposition to reducing emissions of greenhouse gases is most virulent. The American energy industry is full of established, cashed-up businesses that use their influence to combat concern about climate change, to destroy emerging challengers and to oppose moves towards greater energy efficiency. The fact that in the 1970s the United States was a world leader and innovator in energy conservation, photovoltaics and wind technology, yet today is simply a follower, is testimony to the industry's success. It is almost impossible to overestimate the role these companies have played over the past two decades in preventing the world from taking serious action to combat climate change.

With the election of Bush, the fossil fuel lobby became even more powerful, and it has been able to corrupt processes within the US bureaucracy and the soliciting of scientific advice.

I haven't read it - I hadn't even heard of it, so thanks for the heads-up. I'll definitely check it out, it sounds like it'd be an important read.

Also, I'm more than relieved this isn't another "Fiction writer writes a stupid book about things he doesn't know anything about"-thing...

And wouldn't you know it, the writer in question is still at it:
Last month, conspiracy theorist and science-fiction writer Michael Crichton was called before a Senate subcommittee as an expert witness on climate change.
[...]
If The Weather Makers sells well in America, it could serve as a popular counter to Crichton, whose 2005 novel, State of Fear, portrays global warming as a conspiracy concocted by environmentalists.
"called before a Senate subcommittee as an expert witness on climate change" - they've got to be fucking kidding me!

I didn't even know he had written a book like that until Deep Kimchi posted about it last week, but even based on some unattributed quotes you could see it was about as "expert" and scientific as would be my take on, say, nuclear fission reactors.

Seriously. Gah.

I haven't read it - I hadn't even heard of it, so thanks for the heads-up. I'll definitely check it out, it sounds like it'd be an important read.

Also, I'm more than relieved this isn't another "Fiction writer writes a stupid book about things he doesn't know anything about"-thing...

And wouldn't you know it, the writer in question is still at it:

"called before a Senate subcommittee as an expert witness on climate change" - they've got to be fucking kidding me!

I didn't even know he had written a book like that until Deep Kimchi posted about it last week, but even based on some unattributed quotes you could see it was about as "expert" and scientific as would be my take on, say, nuclear fission reactors.

Seriously. Gah.
Here's a cool article by RealClimate that answers that senate hearing with Crichton:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=188

It's because of people like Michael Crichton that global warming is as bad as it is now, and their constant denials are only making it worse. The people who listen to him think global warming is a conspiracy theory, and are oblivious to the flashing warning signs all around them. Hopefully, some of those people will read the book and realize that it is a real problem.

It's because of people like Michael Crichton that global warming is as bad as it is now, and their constant denials are only making it worse. The people who listen to him think global warming is a conspiracy theory, and are oblivious to the flashing warning signs all around them. Hopefully, some of those people will read the book and realize that it is a real problem.
He's not even interested in the topic anymore. It's almost as if he started with an idea for a book, found some fringe scientists who agreed with that idea and then made some quick cash.

He's not even interested in the topic anymore. It's almost as if he started with an idea for a book, found some fringe scientists who agreed with that idea and then made some quick cash.

Of course. The fate of humanity pales in comparison to a few thousand dollars. Typical, and very sad. :(

I guess I need a`catchier title. Maybe something like, "Homosexuals Cause Global Warming."

My personal opinion on global warming is this: Let it happen. If the ice caps melt, then thats more beaches for me. If the winters turn into summer, good. No more below 0 mornings waiting for the bus. Sure, its slightly (ok, really) shallow, but it works for me.

My personal opinion on global warming is this: Let it happen. If the ice caps melt, then thats more beaches for me. If the winters turn into summer, good. No more below 0 mornings waiting for the bus. Sure, its slightly (ok, really) shallow, but it works for me.
Errrr...
I just hope you're not a politician.

(And it really wouldn't work that way...)

I guess I need a`catchier title. Maybe something like, "Homosexuals Cause Global Warming."
Is that why they're called flamers?

Sorry.

Errrr...
I just hope you're not a politician.

(And it really wouldn't work that way...)
Its ok. I won't.

Thats just my shallow side anyways. My political side would tell me to decrease oil consumption, decrease greenhouse gas emissions , blah blah blah.

He's not even interested in the topic anymore. It's almost as if he started with an idea for a book, found some fringe scientists who agreed with that idea and then made some quick cash.
You mean, he's acting like a commercial author? I'd never have expected Michael Crichton, author of Jurassic Park, to be an author of commercial fiction; I always figured that his numerous works, among them a hard hitting investigation into how Dinosaurs destroying a theme park, were entirely based upon hard science and true events. In fact, I have repeatedly cited his numerous works (such as Jurassic Park) in my own scientific research.
No wonder my proffesor threatened to knee cap me if I did it again.

Sheesh, climate change is so over-rated nowadays... Cosidering that the world climate changes naturally and that the effect of our increase of CO2 is minimal to what the variation of the sun's energy output can do to our climate, not to say that we can continue dumping gasses into the atmosphere like nothing is going to happen (Actually CFCs are thousands of times more effective as greenhouse gasses than CO2, besides their ozone destroying effect)

The thing is, there's not much we can do to stop climate change, since it's mostly not our fault. It's cyclical: Warm ages, Ice Ages, it's all been happening for millions of years, even before the evil humans started dumping their evil gasses to the atmosphere and killing mother earth... :p

BTW, the ice caps haven't melted in at least 1 million years, so they won't start melting any time soon.

BTW, the ice caps haven't melted in at least 1 million years, so they won't start melting any time soon.

Completely wrong. They are melting, and at an astonishing rate.

Sheesh, climate change is so over-rated nowadays... Cosidering that the world climate changes naturally and that the effect of our increase of CO2 is minimal to what the variation of the sun's energy output can do to our climate, not to say that we can continue dumping gasses into the atmosphere like nothing is going to happen (Actually CFCs are thousands of times more effective as greenhouse gasses than CO2, besides their ozone destroying effect)

The thing is, there's not much we can do to stop climate change, since it's mostly not our fault. It's cyclical: Warm ages, Ice Ages, it's all been happening for millions of years, even before the evil humans started dumping their evil gasses to the atmosphere and killing mother earth... :p

BTW, the ice caps haven't melted in at least 1 million years, so they won't start melting any time soon.
Oh, joy, the token control group-factor poster ... :rolleyes:
Enjoy. *gets out the 'shmallows, chocolate & graham*

Sheesh, climate change is so over-rated nowadays... Cosidering that the world climate changes naturally and that the effect of our increase of CO2 is minimal to what the variation of the sun's energy output can do to our climate, not to say that we can continue dumping gasses into the atmosphere like nothing is going to happen (Actually CFCs are thousands of times more effective as greenhouse gasses than CO2, besides their ozone destroying effect)

The thing is, there's not much we can do to stop climate change, since it's mostly not our fault. It's cyclical: Warm ages, Ice Ages, it's all been happening for millions of years, even before the evil humans started dumping their evil gasses to the atmosphere and killing mother earth... :p

BTW, the ice caps haven't melted in at least 1 million years, so they won't start melting any time soon.
Would a picture help?
http://www.savebiogems.org/images/polar/map.gif

Is that why they're called flamers?

Sorry.
They cuddle too much generating much too much warmth.

Last try to get this thread going.

Last try to get this thread going.
Rolling Stone had a good issue in the past year or two on this subject, with a lot of names & numbers.
I'd post it, but you might consider perusal first.

Rolling Stone had a good issue in the past year or two on this subject, with a lot of names & numbers.
I'd post it, but you might consider perusal first.
I remember reading it a while ago. It was good. They can do serious reporting when they want to (as long as it doesn't have anything to do with music).

I remember reading it a while ago. It was good. They can do serious reporting when they want to (as long as it doesn't have anything to do with music).
Agreed. *nods*
If i recall correctly, i do open it for pix and the little news blurbs in the yellow marginals. And "Get Your War On". And that's about it.
Their "National Affairs" section usually has something that grits my teeth, and whatever their focus is for the issue.
Thankfully, a lot of them are online ... i'd have already punched up the archives. As is, they've been spotty at best (for me) of late ... that and a lot of my favourite posts existed before the server swap.

Agreed. *nods*
If i recall correctly, i do open it for pix and the little news blurbs in the yellow marginals. And "Get Your War On". And that's about it.
Their "National Affairs" section usually has something that grits my teeth, and whatever their focus is for the issue.
Thankfully, a lot of them are online ... i'd have already punched up the archives. As is, they've been spotty at best (for me) of late ... that and a lot of my favourite posts existed before the server swap.
I'm not sure if this is what I read, since I don't have time to go through it right now. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/8742145/warriors__heroes/

It starts off with a list of 25 people who are leading the fight.

Arnold Schwarzenegger is on there for some reason. Maybe they forgot he drives a Hummer.

I haven't read it - I hadn't even heard of it, so thanks for the heads-up. I'll definitely check it out, it sounds like it'd be an important read.

Also, I'm more than relieved this isn't another "Fiction writer writes a stupid book about things he doesn't know anything about"-thing...

And wouldn't you know it, the writer in question is still at it:

"called before a Senate subcommittee as an expert witness on climate change" - they've got to be fucking kidding me!

I didn't even know he had written a book like that until Deep Kimchi posted about it last week, but even based on some unattributed quotes you could see it was about as "expert" and scientific as would be my take on, say, nuclear fission reactors.

Seriously. Gah.

Well, perhaps now they'll finally listen to my advice on getting testimony from Steven Segal on the issue of nuclear terrorism. :D

Well, perhaps now they'll finally listen to my advice on getting testimony from Steven Segal on the issue of nuclear terrorism. :D
I hate his acting... it really pisses me off for some reason. But have you ever seen him really kick ass?
http://www.aikidoedintorni.com/ARCAvideo/ARCAvideo.htm

Look down through a couple of the videos until you find him. Definitely worth while.

Well, perhaps now they'll finally listen to my advice on getting testimony from Steven Segal on the issue of nuclear terrorism. :D
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0221Seagal-ON.html
Steven Seagal to reign as king of Mardi Gras parade

Associated Press
Feb. 21, 2006 08:29 AM


NEW ORLEANS - Steven Seagal will reign as this year's celebrity monarch for the Krewe of Orpheus, a lavish Carnival parade that Harry Connick Jr. founded.

Seagal will be the celebrity spokesman for Rebuilding Together, the nation's largest volunteer home rehabilitation group.

Rebuilding Together has partnered with the Mardi Gras krewe to publicize the group's efforts to rebuild 1,000 Gulf Coast homes damaged by Hurricane Katrina.
The 54-year-old actor will lead the 27-float parade on Feb. 27, or Lundi Gras. Mardi Gras is Feb. 28.
----

So now there's still time to get him on record about nuclear terrorism!
Publicly!

I'm not sure if this is what I read, since I don't have time to go through it right now. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/8742145/warriors__heroes/

It starts off with a list of 25 people who are leading the fight.

Arnold Schwarzenegger is on there for some reason. Maybe they forgot he drives a Hummer.
This might be helpful as well, although it's not the bulk article i had read ...

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/8731445/global_warming_resources

and this

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6054696/diary_of_a_dying_planet

But THIS is the one i was talking about, perhaps you as well:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/5939345/crimes_against_nature
*ahem*
Crimes Against Nature
Bush is sabotaging the laws that have protected America's environment for more than thirty years

(From RS 937, December 11, 2003)

For more information on the Bush administration's environmental actions, see The Bush Record from NRDC, the Natural Resources Defense Council

http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/default.asp
---
There is *NO* way i'm going to put the entire article on here. WAAAAAYY too big. But it's worth it. *nods*

This might be helpful as well, although it's not the bulk article i had read ...

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/8731445/global_warming_resources

and this

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6054696/diary_of_a_dying_planet

But THIS is the one i was talking about, perhaps you as well:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/5939345/crimes_against_nature
*ahem*
Crimes Against Nature
Bush is sabotaging the laws that have protected America's environment for more than thirty years

(From RS 937, December 11, 2003)

For more information on the Bush administration's environmental actions, see The Bush Record from NRDC, the Natural Resources Defense Council

http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/default.asp
---
There is *NO* way i'm going to put the entire article on here. WAAAAAYY too big. But it's worth it. *nods*

Yup, that's the one.

By the way, in this book there's an interesting comparison between the Kyoto Protocol and the Montreal Protocol which lowered the use of CFCs. Many of the same criticisms against Kyoto were used against the Montreal Protocol in the 80's. It's like history repeating itself... except for the worse.

Yup, that's the one.

It's like history repeating itself... except for the worse.
Bush in a nutshell. *nods solemnly*

Bush in a nutshell. *nods solemnly*
If only I could find a shell big enough....

If only I could find a shell big enough....
...like the corporation?

*bleah*