NationStates Jolt Archive

I tend to avoid going to the doctor...not pathologically, and not out of any fear, but simply because I feel that most minor ailments can be dealt with sans the help of medicine. Seems obvious, but I have a sister-in-law that takes her kids to the emergency room for colds, so I guess it isn't as obvious as it should be.

However, I do go to my yearly check-ups, and get help when and if I need it. What has bothered me a lot over the years is that often, quite drastic, surgical 'solutions' are pushed over simpler ones. I'll give you some examples:

- I've seen three doctors about my bunion, and all have tried to schedule me for surgery. The most extreme treatment suggested was actually breaking my toe, cutting pieces of bone out and straightening the bone with a metal wire. The others involved going under, and getting part of the bone shaved off. I've since found out that a toe spacer would work quite well, considering my bunion is not very severe.

- My niece had a lazy eye when she was about 8. The specialist told us she wanted to pop her eye out, and examine the eye that way. I'm fucking serious. Pop her eye out of the socket. We said no. The eye is now fine.

- My daughter was born with a small, non-cancerous lump by her eyebrow. It was not dangerous, not infected, and again, non-cancerous. At six months, they wanted to put her under, and carve it out. Considering the slight, but real chance of her dying while under anesthesia, I said we'd wait. She's 'grown out' of the lump and it's no longer an issue.

These are hardly the sum of my experience with doctors jumping to surgical solutions. It's gotten to the point that I question every prescription, every treatment. Things like...finding out my mother-in-law was given codeine pain-killers when we clearly told her doctor she was severely allergic to codeine! Rar!

Anyway, my question is: what are your experiences having 'drastic' treatments suggested to you, rather than simpler, non-invasive methods?

Clearly, not all doctors push for surgery. Still...finding the ones that don't reach automatically for the prescription forms or for surgical solutions is becoming harder for me. Case in point...for both my pregnancies, one doctor insisted I would need a C-section. I ignored him and talked to other doctors about it, and delivered both children naturally. The C-section happy doctor had a 96% rate of C-sections among his patients. Gee. I wonder why.

I haven't really had too much experience, personally. I have trouble getting doctors that want to do anything, in fact once one told me that my pain from gall stones was caused by anxiety and if I would just take a bubble bath, it would fix my gallbladder.

I also ripped the tendons from the bone in my knee once and the doctor said "well it's not broken, so it should be fine"

EDIT:oh, and after being in labor with my first kid for over 60 hours my OBGYN wanted to send me home instead of doing a C-section because she wanted to give me a "good trial of labor"

I fired her, and hubby got me a new doctor in about 30 minutes. The new doc said that 63 hours was way too long to be in labor without progress and that we needed to do a c-section before the baby got sick.

Aaargh! Smunkee, my mom has had similar problems getting necessary operations for her hearing. So yes, there is the flip side of this coin that is also bad. It's very frustrating, because you need to become very educated about your problems so you can push for the proper treatment...but it's hard not to just accept what the professionals say about your condition. I had finally agreed to get this foot surgery done in two weeks...but a friend of ours who practices medicine talked me out of it, and told me to try other options first. Why wasn't that ever suggested before? I had no idea there WERE other options!

It's very confusing. I never know what advice to take, and what to ignore...and it's become worse since I had kids, because if it were just me, I'd rarely see the doctor for colds or flus...but with them, it can turn more serious and I do end up taking them in more often.

Smunk: 63 hours of labor??? Jesus, I've never heard of a doctor letting it go that long. Thats dangerous to not only the mother, but the child as well.

Smunk: 63 hours of labor??? Jesus, I've never heard of a doctor letting it go that long. Thats dangerous to not only the mother, but the child as well.
That is friggin' insane! Good for you to fire her, Smunk! I imagine it was a difficult decision to make, especially being in that vulnerable position...my first pregnancy, I felt so bloody lost, even with all the intellectual prep I'd had...if the doctor then had said, 'we're going to do *x*', I would've just done it.

Smunk: 63 hours of labor??? Jesus, I've never heard of a doctor letting it go that long. Thats dangerous to not only the mother, but the child as well.
yeah. The nurses were afraid of my dr. I had moved cross country at 8 months pregnant and didn't really research all that well who I was getting. After I banned her from my room a nurse came in and said "I was so scared for you and your baby"

I found out after, from the new doc. that I had pre-eclampsia and that my blood pressure at one point during the labor had gotten up to 160/130 so the nurses quit giving me the induction drugs, and that's why I didn't progress, I was still having strong contractions but my body wasn't working right. Everything worked out well though.

I was only in labor with my second for like 20 hours then got a c-section, it wasn't too bad of a labor though, they kept trying to stop the contractions, and mag sulfate is yucky stuff.

Anyway, my question is: what are your experiences having 'drastic' treatments suggested to you, rather than simpler, non-invasive methods?
I had a pilonidal abscess recently (just over a month ago), and when the consultant surgeon looked at it his first suggestion was a 'flap'. This is a rather drastic piece of surgery that involves flattening out the top of your... er... 'crease'. Fortunately he responded to my horrified expression by saying he could instead do a simple excision (which just leaves a slight scar once it's healed), but it could come back again (in reality, very few pilonidal abscesses reoccur after excision).

If you're in a system of private healthcare, that's why. It's all about money. Doctors get more of a profit for melodramatic surgical procedures than for simple prescriptions.

money + doctors + you = more money

simple really. doctors want money. how do they get money? simple yet expensive surgery.

If you're in a system of private healthcare, that's why. It's all about money. Doctors get more of a profit for melodramatic surgical procedures than for simple prescriptions.
I'm Canadian. We don't yet have private healthcare, but that doesn't mean that greed doesn't factor into things. The C-section happy doctor I spoke of made a lot of money delivering surgically compared to those doctors who didn't.

I honestly tend to trust doctors who have practiced in poorer countries first. Why? Because they made due with what they had, and primary health care is more common in poorer areas. You try a few things first, before you jump to more drastic measures.

Just because we have more technology in Canada, doesn't mean we have to use it. Same with medications. My daughter had a bout of eczema, and was given a strong cortisone cream (that contains steroids, thins the skin, and becomes 'addictive). Another doctor suggested baby oil in the bath, and pointed out that such flare ups are usually stress-induced, which made sense because I had been taking a three week course, and had hardly seen my daughter. I used the oil, made an effort to spend my evenings just playing with the kids, and the eczema cleared right up.

money + doctors + you = more money

simple really. doctors want money. how do they get money? simple yet expensive surgery.It seems so. Fass? Where are you? How are would you describe the Swedish approach to medicine and surgery?

I'm Canadian. We don't yet have private healthcare, but that doesn't mean that greed doesn't factor into things. The C-section happy doctor I spoke of made a lot of money delivering surgically compared to those doctors who didn't.

I honestly tend to trust doctors who have practiced in poorer countries first. Why? Because they made due with what they had, and primary health care is more common in poorer areas. You try a few things first, before you jump to more drastic measures.

Just because we have more technology in Canada, doesn't mean we have to use it. Same with medications. My daughter had a bout of eczema, and was given a strong cortisone cream (that contains steroids, thins the skin, and becomes 'addictive). Another doctor suggested baby oil in the bath, and pointed out that such flare ups are usually stress-induced, which made sense because I had been taking a three week course, and had hardly seen my daughter. I used the oil, made an effort to spend my evenings just playing with the kids, and the eczema cleared right up.

I am going to try that Sin, thanks. My daughters isnt going away despite 4 scripts of creams @ $45 each.

Let me start with america's health care system IT SUCKS! Sure, we may have advanced medical technology and shit, but you know, that does not mean shit if you have no health Insurance, and the doctor's in this country are corrupt as hell, im speaking from experiance here, it is so hard to get anything treated with out health insurance, the bills are fucking insane, its like 800 for some stitches. What the hell? So the past few times i even got hurt majorly like getting my head split open and getting really sick (dunno what it was but i was in bed for a month) i just didnt go and hoped i would live, Now, the Doctor's are the same, they are evil, seriously, I dont know about the rest of the world but here (wisconsin) they are ALL in on like some conspiracy, they Diagnose people totally wrong, The often tell people with major problems they have nothing and then they die and nothing is done about it. We need to get rid of them, Permanently, and then get a Socialist health care system.
:sniper: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mp5: :gundge: :mad:

(...) Anyway, my question is: what are your experiences having 'drastic' treatments suggested to you, rather than simpler, non-invasive methods?

Ewww .... there seem to be a lot of Doctors like that.
My last experience I had was with dentists.

I lost an inlay.
I have to say that I was new in this city and therefore had visited no doctors at all.
So I went to the first dentist downtown and asked him for replacing my inlay.
So he started the common examination WITHOUT replacing the inlay but telling me something like: "Oh, Jesus ... how long haven't you been at a dentist. Your teeth are ruined. We need to do this and that and ... oh .. here this one has to be corrected as well, Sir. Please ask the receptionist for an appointment." The conversation ended up with him saying: "The costs? Hm ...
You have to calculate with about 4,500 Euros".

Fine, I thought. You guy will not make a fool out of me!
So I decided to consult another dentist to hear a different opinion.
Almost the same story there, only difference: His estimate of costs was only some 2,000 Euros.

Not with me!!!! I mean ... being new somewhere does not automatically mean that you are foolish! I knew I had very good teeth!

So I decided to go to a dentist in the countryside. This appointment lasted 45 minutes. The doctor was very friendly and I can still hear her saying: "I'll replace your inlay it's synthetic and the cost is 94 Euros."
"That's all?" I asked. "That's all. You have brilliant teeth, Sir!"

Yes .... lawyers and doctors ...:rolleyes:

I am going to try that Sin, thanks. My daughters isnt going away despite 4 scripts of creams @ $45 each.
Cortisone cream is really strong stuff. I think, even more than the baby oil, what helped my daughter is realising that she was under a lot of stress because I wasn't around as much. Just holding her more, playing with her, seemed to help.

My first daughter had terrible oral thrush...I got these expensive, strong medicines to 'kill it off'. It didn't work, and it made her really sick to the stomach. Another doctor told me I needed to use cool, boiled water and a clean cloth, and just wipe her mouth out three times a day. The thrush went away.

I don't give my kids any medication now unless I've tried simpler solutions first (barring of course serious situations where there isn't the luxury of time).

Now, the Doctor's are the same, they are evil, seriously, I dont know about the rest of the world but here (wisconsin) they are ALL in on like some conspiracy, they Diagnose people totally wrong, The often tell people with major problems they have nothing and then they die and nothing is done about it. We need to get rid of them, Permanently, and then get a Socialist health care system.

Um. I wouldn't go as far as to say doctors are evil, and that private health care is the ultimate reason for overprescriptions and such. If these things happen in a system of public health care too, then your theory kind of flies away. One thing I can say is that doctors are crazy overworked, and overbooked. You have a ten minute appointment with them, and what can they really find out or discuss with you in that time? Most of the doctors I've seen end up working 90 hour weeks...and that's NORMAL for them. I'm sorry, but when you work like a dog, see hundreds of patients a week, you're not going to be functioning at your peak. Plus, many patients DEMAND medication/surgery etc, and don't want the simpler solutions. It's not just the medical profession that needs to reprioritise, it's us as patients as well.

You know, the only way things are gonna seriously change is if we send a drastic message, all over the world. By blowing up parts hospitals that have no patients in them (let the staff die), Publicly execucting Doctors that are known to be fraudulent, and have the masses storm anything that is Health care/goverment/corperate that has to do with the healthcare system. Thats how things have changed in the past, and thats how they'll change threwout all of time. Unfortunetly.
Now that the government is montiring this probably
They'll send some sort of SS like unit after me.
And then have me "suicided"
America Has changed we are no longer close to a democracy or a rebublic or anything. We are a Police state, and we need to do something about it.:sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :mad:

Yes .... lawyers and doctors ...:rolleyes:
Hey! I'm going into Law, and I resent that remark:)

I do notice that health care tends to be better in rural areas. Why? I think there is a more personal connection with the patients, and on average, your appointments last longer than in the city. What does this say to me? It says that just as teachers with smaller classes tend to have better results than those with 40 odd students...doctors that are not overbooked, overworked, and overused tend to have better results.

Dentists...oh, there is another one. Sheesh. My family and my husband's family have had such terrible, terrible experiences with unecessary or botched treatments that we are actually planning to take my mother-in-law to her dentist in Chile in three weeks time. Why? She has a cleft palette, and needs a plate, and some fairly extensive work on her teeth. She hasn't found a dentist in Canada that hasn't f*cked up her treatment, so she is willing to pay to visit her dentist back home. In some ways, I think it's foolish, but really...I can't blame her. The last time she got her plate adjusted in Canada, it cut her so badly, she couldn't eat. They pulled teeth that were good, and left the rotten one behind. So when she gets a bit paranoid about going back to a dentist in Canada, I guess I understand.

You know, the only way things are gonna seriously change is if we send a drastic message, all over the world. By blowing up parts hospitals that have no patients in them (let the staff die), Publicly execucting Doctors that are known to be fraudulent, and have the masses storm anything that is Health care/goverment/corperate that has to do with the healthcare system. Thats how things have changed in the past, and thats how they'll change threwout all of time. Unfortunetly.
Now that the government is montiring this probably
They'll send some sort of SS like unit after me.
And then have me "suicided"
America Has changed we are no longer close to a democracy or a rebublic or anything. We are a Police state, and we need to do something about it.:sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :mad:
Okay, you need to tone it down. I'm pretty sure that death threats, and threats of terrorist attacks violate the ToS.

It seems so. Fass? Where are you? How are would you describe the Swedish approach to medicine and surgery?

I don't know - I've never met anyone who just jumps for surgery or who just refuses surgery like that. "Conservative" (i.e. non-surgical) treatment is preferred, but there are guidelines and evidence based indications to most treatments where once you "score" on different scales, you "qualify" for surgery.

I spent some time last week talking a woman out of surgery because her goiter was benign, quite small and having it removed would only have slight cosmetic advantages, and that compared to the risks (mostly damage on the recurrent laryngeal nerve, but also among others the risk of having her parathyroid injured) surgery was not optimal (one does not want to risk something for a slight benefit, is my motto) but she had managed to have one of the symptoms for surgery - pressure on her trachea. This was only noticeable with the aid of a fibrescope and she herself had never had any trouble breathing at all, but since she had that and she wanted the surgery, she got it. Had she not had the tracheal involvement, she would not have gotten the surgery, as it would not have been covered and she would have had to pay for it herself.

It's always a balance.

It's always a balance.
I just wish I could find a doctor I could trust to discuss all the options with me. Unfortunately, the good ones I have found have tended to be busy enough that they weren't accepting new patients:(. The truth is, we need more doctors and nurses, and FUNDING for health-care, but the political desire to prove that public healthcare is 'bad'...but gutting the system and MAKING IT BAD...seems to trump the obvious solution of actual support for the system.

I cracked the 'ball' at the top of my left leg when i was 12 playing rugby and weakened the one on the right side aswell so had to have a 5in screw through each of them.

I had them taken out last january and now my right leg muscles make it turn outwards which i have to correct by turning it back in.I went to see the surgeon about it and have to go for physiotherapy to try and correct the muscle posture(sp?), but if that fails i have to have my leg broken to try and align it properly.:(

My first daughter had terrible oral thrush...I got these expensive, strong medicines to 'kill it off'. It didn't work, and it made her really sick to the stomach. Another doctor told me I needed to use cool, boiled water and a clean cloth, and just wipe her mouth out three times a day. The thrush went away.

I don't give my kids any medication now unless I've tried simpler solutions first (barring of course serious situations where there isn't the luxury of time).

No doubt. My daughters get thrush fairly frequently, and one doctor prescribed these drops that would cost about 95$ for a 50 ml bottle. After finally looking around for other solutions, an elderly pharmacist told us to use gentian violet, which ismade from flowers and costs about 3$ for the same size bottle. Yogourt also helps.

I just wish I could find a doctor I could trust to discuss all the options with me.

I'm worried when I hear that people can't. I always try to present patients with different courses of actions, telling them the risks and the benefits, and feel that it is not my job as a doctor to treat you - it is my job as a doctor to agree with you on a plan of action that you yourself find most attractive. I can advise and I can recommend (or malign :P) certain things, but ultimately it is the patient's choice. I'm big on autonomy. It's also nice to be financially free in the sense that I don't make extra money whatever it is that the patient in the end goes with.

I'm rambling a bit here, but my philosophy in these matters is quite fresh and I guess I don't have enough of a god complex to be a "real" doctor yet.

I was informed that the only times they do surgery for broken collarbones is when it's strictly necessary (i.e. the risk is smaller than the benefit, such as life-threatening or unable to feel your arm).

I'm worried when I hear that people can't. I always try to present patients with different courses of actions, telling them the risks and the benefits, and feel that it is not my job as a doctor to treat you - it is my job as a doctor to agree with you on a plan of action that you yourself find most attractive. I can advise and I can recommend (or malign :P) certain things, but ultimately it is the patient's choice. I'm big on autonomy. It's also nice to be financially free in the sense that I don't make extra money whatever it is that the patient in the end goes with.I wonder if this is the motivating factor for doctors in Canada and the US to go for straight for surgical options? I don't quite understand the funding formula here, but from what I understand, surgeons DO make more money than other doctors....perhaps percentage-wise, here, and full-blown fees in the US, I'm not sure. But I really would like to see a system where the options don't increase your paycheck. If there are any Canadian doctors on board here that could give me more information (or disprove me on the funding issue), I would really welcome it!

I'm rambling a bit here, but my philosophy in these matters is quite fresh and I guess I don't have enough of a god complex to be a "real" doctor yet.
Well, the 'good doctors' I've found vary in age. Some young doctors are great, and take the time to explain, and discuss. Some young doctors like the fancy options and push you toward them. Same with the older doctors. I don't think there is a certain group that is better. If you go into medicine with a certain set of priorities, I suspect you will maintain them.

I'm rambling a bit here, but my philosophy in these matters is quite fresh and I guess I don't have enough of a god complex to be a "real" doctor yet.
Please don't, if everything goes according to plan, you could very well be my doctor one of these days. No, you'll never know either!

I don't trust doctors, ever. Especially in Finland. Just because I'm not a natural citizen ... their not taking my insurance that I had purchased just for this occasion ... and back in the States, don't get me started. Its drugs up front. Prescriptions give so many side-effects, ones that we can't predict, its rediculous the way they prescribe them. My entire family, except my father and myself who are very suspicious about the whole thing, have been on drugs that should not be taken together at one point.

I've had a number of surgeries, and all have gone fine, I guess. I was rather small. I'm very weary to go under the knife nowadays. Anyhow, my problem isn't surgery, its prescription drugs. Got a problem? Here you go!

Anyhow, I've found horseradish works well to clear up a cold. Makes me feel better any time, spices that is. I've kind of taken my health into my own hands, as I have a number of relatives who are professionals, but live far away. So, I go to the doctor, talk to family, and just do my best to stay healthy. Its just something too big and unpredictable, as unlike Fass, my doctors (except one, they moved out West though) never talk it over with us. We gotta press for alternatives. Its so bloody stressing!

I myself live in a rural area(I live between 2 villages:one has a stop light, the other doesn't)in the U.S. and have never really had problems with the medical community personally. Then again, I'm young and don't go to the dentist as much as I should, so that's neither here nor there. However, I remember when my sister had to go up to Cleveland due to medical problems(later to be determined to be mono). First, she got referred to Cleveland(better facilities), then she got referred to Columbus. I don't remember if she ended up getting referred back to Cleveland again or not(I was like, 8 or 10 at the time), but I remember that it was a huge, and somewhat expensive, hassle. I mean, jeez, mono is a fairly common thing. You'd think it would've been simply,"Hmmm... We think you have mono, but since we're not quite sure, we're sending your blood samples up to Cleveland and will get back to you."; NOT,"Hmmm... We think you might have mono, but since we're not quite sure and too cheap to buy stamps, we're sending YOU up to Cleveland. Have a nice trip!" Sheesh. Needless to say, my parents lost a bit of respectfor the Cleveland Clinic/Cleveland Metroparks(whichever it was, I get them confused, though I do think it was the latter). Then, just within the past few years, an aunt of mine had a stroke. It just so happens that at the time of this occurence, she was on a prescription(or, at least, doctor recommended)medication for menopausal symptoms that has been found to cause-you guessed it-strokes. There's even been some class action lawsuits against the maker of this drug because they weren't exactly forthcoming on this very dangerous side-effect. And don't even get me started on my(paternal)grandpa's meds :sniper:.... Ooo, and I also have a grandma(maternal)who lives in Florida. Sarcasm{The medical system down there is real fun. It's so fun, my dad has threatened on more than one occasion(and may have actually done so once, but not sure)to go down there and straighten things out with the wonderful doctors down there.}End sarcasm. Does anyone here have anything nice to say about Floridian doctors' treatment of the elderly?

As for docs being over worked and patients going psycho over every little runny nose(which will inevitably create a super bug)... Yup, totally agree with you there. What really doesn't help is that doctors are scared that if they don't give what the patient wants(whether it be unneeded surgeries or the most powerful drugs on the market), said patient will at the very least stop seeing them, and at the very worst sue them for malpractice. Of course, if they do go with the surgery the patient wants, then they'll probably get sued for malpractice anyway-not because they were bad doctors, but because the hospital wouldn't let them leave even when they became so tired that they had fullfledged conversations with a coatrack that they thought was some random famous person! Not that I'm saying that's always the case-there are some pretty bad doctors out there that deserve to be sued into a cardboard box(prison's too good for them). However, as is the case in my state of Ohio, when the good doctors are forced to leave because they can no longer afford to pay for the malpractice costs of whomever got sued in the first place(a system I don't get:Why don't the people getting sued have to pay for it themselves, rather than whatever hospital system spreading the costs to all the medical professionals that work for them? Seems rather unfair to the non-screwups.), then one must ask: WTF!? Either the doctors in the state really suck, or it's the medical system(and their dumb custome-I mean patients)that sucks. *Puts on tinfoil hat* I think it's a conspiracy between the health insurance industries, HMOs, pharmaceuticals, the FDA(watch the news-the organization approves drugs at random, even when side-effects include death), and evil lawyers. And by "evil", I don't mean the "Champions of Justice" to which you will surely belong, Sinuhue :p(congrats on making it to law school btw).

Heh, I can relate to that...

One of my teeth is slightly pushed behind another - there isn't quite enough room in my mouth for all my teeth, but it doesn't really give me any problems, and at worst is only a niggling annoyance. It can't be removed, because they'd have to take out a canine and i'd probably end up talking with a lisp or something.

One possible solution the dentist gave was breaking my jaw and extending it slightly with a piece of bone from my shin.

...

No thanks.

I've never actually had this kind of problem personally. Of course, I only go to the doctor when I feel bad enough that I'm about to keel over and for my yearly check-up and birth control prescription (and, in truth, the pills are the only reason I go to that).

As for your toe, Sin, I'd definitely try other measures before going for surgery. I've seen that surgery - it looks pretty brutal and has to be painful afterwards. Meanwhile, my mother has something similar on her toe - what is it that you guys are trying exactly? I'd like to suggest it to her.

I've never actually had this kind of problem personally. Of course, I only go to the doctor when I feel bad enough that I'm about to keel over and for my yearly check-up and birth control prescription (and, in truth, the pills are the only reason I go to that).

As for your toe, Sin, I'd definitely try other measures before going for surgery. I've seen that surgery - it looks pretty brutal and has to be painful afterwards. Meanwhile, my mother has something similar on her toe - what is it that you guys are trying exactly? I'd like to suggest it to her.
I'm going to be trying a bunion spacer (http://www.myfootshop.com/detail.asp?ProductID=710) on both feet during the day, a bunion splint (http://www.shopping.com/xPC-Bunion_Night_Splint_Right_Medium) at night, and I'm going to have my doctor check the width of my shoes out. They say that 90% of bunions are caused by wearing shoes too small for you...but I've never been one to be uncomfortable for fashion, and heels are something I only wear when I don't mean to actually be on my feet. Looking at my father's mother's feet, I suspect genetics is at play here.

One possible solution the dentist gave was breaking my jaw and extending it slightly with a piece of bone from my shin.

...

No thanks.
Cripes! Talk about drastic! I had a jaw injury when I was younger, (the main reason I stopped boxing, actually), and my orthodontist back when I was a teen thought that because of the injury, my jaw would grow to jut out. He suggested that we break my jaw, then cut a piece of bone out of my jaw so that it would stay in place and not grow out. Yeah right! I didn't do it, thank goodness, and my jaw is still delicate by definitely not jutting. In fact, if anything, I have a slight under, not overbite.

Cripes! Talk about drastic! I had a jaw injury when I was younger, (the main reason I stopped boxing, actually), and my orthodontist back when I was a teen thought that because of the injury, my jaw would grow to jut out. He suggested that we break my jaw, then cut a piece of bone out of my jaw so that it would stay in place and not grow out. Yeah right! I didn't do it, thank goodness, and my jaw is still delicate by definitely not jutting. In fact, if anything, I have a slight under, not overbite.


Your jaw seems fine now as its always flapping.

If not-I could fix that and your bunion. I have tools.

:p

You have to look at it from the doctor's point of view sometimes-if they are surgeons, they can correct everything with surgery.

These days, you need to get a second opinion and talk to others with similar experiences, as well as research it yourself.

And ask a lot of questions. You also need an advocate when you go for any procedure- one whom is close and interested and can ask a nurse what their giving you or tell them what you're waiting for if your still in an anestesia fog.
Ever see someone get the wrong medication? Ever see someone unconscious have a meal delivered, then the untouched meal taken away an hour later?

You know what I think should really stop being asked of women after giving birth? "Are you going to have a tubal ligation today?" I wonder how many say yes, traumatised by what they've just been through? What a vulnerable time to suggest such a thing!

You know what I think should really stop being asked of women after giving birth? "Are you going to have a tubal ligation today?" I wonder how many say yes, traumatised by what they've just been through? What a vulnerable time to suggest such a thing!

Its a small window of opporotunity to catch a woman capable of rational thought. :p

really-six months later, nature has almost erased memory of how awful labor and delivery may have been and you suddenly "need" to have more.

what better time to offer? especially if you have to make your next jaguar payment.

*OP snip*

It's because of things like this that I have an assortment of various medical, law, engineering, etc, books laying around here. I try to make certain that I know at least something about the things I have to rely on other people for. I may not be a doctor, but I sure as hell am not willing to take ones word as God's just because he makes a living off of it.

As for personal experience, I had a joint effusion in my right knee when I was younger and they wanted to push for surgery. I turned them down, went with physical therapy, and now there is no pain at all and my knee is stronger then it ever was. While there are certainly times that surgery IS actually necessary, I’d rather have some insight on the matter before making any sort of decision.