NationStates Jolt Archive


Religion as pretext for carnage.

Eutrusca
24-02-2006, 16:10
COMMENTARY: "Tragic" is hardly a strong enough term to describe this sort of thing. Yet the perversion to violent ends of religions which claim they preach peace is nothing new. Will people never learn?


Nigeria Counts 100 Deaths Over Danish Caricatures (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/24/international/africa/24nigeria.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin)


By LYDIA POLGREEN
Published: February 24, 2006
ONITSHA, Nigeria, Feb. 23 — Dozens of charred, smoldering bodies littered the streets of this bustling commercial center on Thursday after three days of rioting in which Christian mobs wielding machetes, clubs and knives set upon their Muslim neighbors.

Rioters have killed scores of people here, mostly Muslims, after burning their homes, businesses and mosques in the worst violence yet linked to the caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad first published in a Danish newspaper. The violence in Nigeria began with attacks on Christians in the northern part of the country last week by Muslims infuriated over the cartoons.

Now old ethnic and political tensions between Muslims in the north and Christians here in the south have been reignited, with at least 33 bodies still visible on the streets of Onitsha on Thursday and a local organization that has tried to collect the scattered corpses reporting that it has already picked up 80 others.

The cycle of tit-for-tat sectarian violence has pushed the death toll in the last week well beyond 100, making Nigeria the hardest-hit country so far in the caricature controversy.

The main thoroughfare leading into the city across the Niger River was covered in bodies of Muslim Hausas who had tried to flee rampaging bands of youths, witnesses said. Many of the victims appeared to have been beaten to death; most of the bodies had been doused with gasoline and burned.

Residents combed through the destroyed shops and homes of Muslims, looting whatever the flames had not carried away.

"These things belong to Igbos," said Sunday Tagbo, 25, referring to the dominant ethnic group of this region, more commonly known worldwide as Ibos, as he helped himself to sooty car parts left behind by fleeing merchants. "This is Igbo land. No more Muslims can live here."

City and state officials urged calm, and a semblance of the ordinary returned to the city's streets on Thursday, with markets open and heavy traffic on the streets. But the damage of three days of carnage was evident. At the central mosque, rioters burned the building and hacked down trees surrounding it.

Someone wrote in chalk on a charred wall, "Jesus is Lord." The message went on to warn that "from today" there would be no more Muhammad. Thousands of Muslim residents fled the city, some on foot over the bridge leading to Delta State, taking refuge in neighboring cities. Thousands more huddled in police and army barracks in Onitsha and surrounding towns.

"What has become of us?" lamented the Rev. Joseph Ezeugo, pastor of Immaculate Heart Parish. "This cannot be Nigeria today. We have been living side by side with our Muslim brothers for so long. Why should a cartoon in Denmark bring us to civil war?"

But the cartoons, many political analysts say, were simply a pretext to act on very old grievances rubbed raw by political tensions. Nigeria is entering a period of great political uncertainty in which it must elect a new president to replace Olusegun Obasanjo, who is barred by term limits from running for re-election. Speculation has been rife that he may try to amend the Constitution to run again.

"At the end of the day it is all politics," said Kayode Fayemi, a political scientist and the director of the Center for Democracy and Development, an advocacy group in Nigeria. "Everything else is just pretext."

Conflicts between religious and ethnic groups are common and deadly in Nigeria. In 2002, riots over a beauty contest held in Kaduna in northern Nigeria left more than 200 people dead, and thousands of others have died in such clashes in the last few years.

The most recent cycle began in Borno State, where riots broke out over the Danish cartoons, killing at least 18 people. Muslim rioters burned churches and the homes and businesses of Christians.

In Bauchi State, riots were set off last week when a Christian teacher took a Koran away from a Muslim student who was reading it without permission in class, according to Nigerian newspaper accounts. Muslims were incensed because it is considered a desecration to touch the Koran without performing ritual ablutions. Twenty-five people were killed.

The riots in Onitsha were ignited when a busload of the bodies of Ibo victims of violence in the north returned home earlier this week.

The violence has picked at a very old wound, one inflicted by Nigeria's civil war in the late 1960's, in which Ibo-led insurgents tried to form an independent country called Biafra. The war and the mass starvation it caused killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Some Ibo leaders still nurse a hope that Biafra will be resurrected, and the government recently arrested the leaders of a militant group advocating the re-establishment of an Ibo state. An echo of that sentiment could be seen in graffiti scrawled on a wall here. "This is Biafra," it read. "Rejoice."

The Ibo claim to self-governance is but one of many of the fraying threads in Nigeria's complex quilt of 200 ethnic groups. Tensions between northerners and southerners, and Muslims and Christians, are a staple of Nigeria's contentious political scene, and the nation has always struggled to make sense of its vast diversity.

Its population of roughly 140 million is evenly split between Christians and Muslims, and while most Muslims live in the north and Christians in the south, large numbers of both groups have settled all over the country.

But Ibos nurse particular grudges, making the conflict between them and the Hausas, Muslims who are the dominant group of the north, particularly violent.

"Since 1970 the northerners have been stealing our wealth and ruling us like we are slaves," said Innocent Okafor, a motorcycle taxi driver who brought his 12-year-old son, Jindo, to see the carnage in Onitsha on Thursday, so that he might "know our history and our struggle."

"Thousands of Igbos have died in the north," he said. "So why should some northerners not die here? We must avenge our brothers."
Willamena
24-02-2006, 16:11
It's not religion that does that, it's people. Religions don't kill people; people kill people.
Eddalonia
24-02-2006, 16:13
and bears. bears kill people too
Eutrusca
24-02-2006, 16:13
It's not religion that does that, it's people. Religions don't kill people; people kill people.
Did you read the highlighted portions of the article? That's one of the things it pointed out.
DubyaGoat
24-02-2006, 16:16
It's not religion that does that, it's people. Religions don't kill people; people kill people.

/signed


It's not religion at all. It is however proof of the old adage (Twain I think?)that said, "good fences make for good neighbors," this community didn't have good fences, this is a war looking for a place to start.
Willamena
24-02-2006, 16:16
Did you read the highlighted portions of the article? That's one of the things it pointed out.
Sorry, I didn't get that from the article at all.

But I was just trying to head off the vast numbers who will flock to this thread to blame religion.
DubyaGoat
24-02-2006, 16:18
Did you read the highlighted portions of the article? That's one of the things it pointed out.

/signed this too.

The title is a little deceptive but your point is well made.
Saint Dutchington
24-02-2006, 16:23
I agree that it's definately people and not the religions themselves. It's so sad because such violence gives religions a bad name.....

Crusades, anyone?
Argesia
24-02-2006, 16:28
Did you read the highlighted portions of the article? That's one of the things it pointed out.
Yeah, you'll only point it out for Christianity. You previously said that Islam means to exterminate us. Now, that peace-loving Christians (and Protestants, oh me! Charismatic Protestant, even!) engage in subjectively-motivated violence, it's "people" that do it. Whatever works to make Protestants the summit of civilization.
Teh_pantless_hero
24-02-2006, 16:29
It sounds more like a cultural thing going back far before they were Christian or Muslim.
Kamsaki
24-02-2006, 17:01
It sounds more like a cultural thing going back far before they were Christian or Muslim.
Religion is just another subset of culture. I'd have thought the last five years or so would have made that more obvious.
Kossackja
24-02-2006, 17:07
Religion as pretext for carnage.imo religion is the cause, not the pretext. the danish cartoons, they are a pretext.
Eritrita
24-02-2006, 17:08
It's not religion that does that, it's people. Religions don't kill people; people kill people.
Religion gives people an excuse to kill people, and with the excuse, they grow far more, dangerously more, willing to do so.
The Black Forrest
24-02-2006, 19:31
Not surprised especially after the killing spree the Muslims went on after that beauty pagent a year or two ago.

Some of the worst acts of inhumanty have been done in the name of God.

Religion with little or no education is always a volitile mix.
Luporum
24-02-2006, 19:34
Religion with little or no education is always a volitile mix.

Actually there's a university in Tehran that has a suicide bombing course. So Religion + Education = Effecient in murdering innocents?
DrunkenDove
24-02-2006, 19:38
Actually there's a university in Tehran that has a suicide bombing course. So Religion + Education = Effecient in murdering innocents?

You kid, right?

I would love to write on my CV: "I majored in experimental physics and minored in suicide bombing."
Santa Barbara
24-02-2006, 19:38
Actually there's a university in Tehran that has a suicide bombing course. So Religion + Education = Effecient in murdering innocents?

I wonder how anyone passes that course alive.
Kryozerkia
24-02-2006, 19:40
Actually there's a university in Tehran that has a suicide bombing course. So Religion + Education = Effecient in murdering innocents?
That is extremely fucked up.
Luporum
24-02-2006, 19:41
I wonder how anyone passes that course alive.

I imagine there's no field experiment. It probably goes over the mentality and necessary steps to become a successful suicide bomber. (As if they weren't simple enough). I might take it for the easy A.

Step 1: Set us up the bomb
Step 2: Wear bomb
Step 3: Find a clump full of people
Step 4: Mutter prayer
Step 5: Collect on your Al Queda pension plan
The Black Forrest
24-02-2006, 19:42
Actually there's a university in Tehran that has a suicide bombing course. So Religion + Education = Effecient in murdering innocents?

Hmm my BS alarm is sounding.

Sorry but you will have to provide proof on the claim.
Ekland
24-02-2006, 19:45
You know, slaughter is so much more fulfilling when you say "Eh, fuck that" with the excuses and do it for the sake of doing it. These dumbasses are really cheating themselves. :rolleyes:
Bodinia
24-02-2006, 19:47
You should have highlighted the first few paragraphs, where it says that first came the muslim protest killing 20. I don't think the "christian" "protesters" made any innuendo to religion, they just went on a violence spree against their aggressors, now if for some high seated priest it's an occasion to take an even higher moral ground he may may see fit to call those murderers christian: religion wins, justice/state lose.
Lacadaemon
24-02-2006, 19:48
Hmm my BS alarm is sounding.

Sorry but you will have to provide proof on the claim.

From what I can remember hearing, it wasn't actually a course in sucide bombing per se, but a recruitment drive for suicide bombers set up by a student group at terhan university.

Edit: It appears I was kind of right. Here's a link. link (http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=1641344)
Luporum
24-02-2006, 19:57
Hmm my BS alarm is sounding.

Sorry but you will have to provide proof on the claim.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1581481/posts

There are more sites following this issue if you just google it up.

In actuallity it was a seminar on suicide bombing by a professor of modern warfare tactics. It also doesn't surprise me that young college students would be interested in this because, correct me if I'm wrong, but a good majority of the terrorists involved at the Russian playhouse were young college students as well. Hmm
THE LOST PLANET
24-02-2006, 20:31
It's not religion that does that, it's people. Religions don't kill people; people kill people.You're quite right.



It's just that they do it quite often in the name of religion.
Saladador
24-02-2006, 20:59
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=1641344

I think this must be what they're talking about.

Guess everything has a grain of truth to it.

BTW, there is a website called snopes.com, that searches up on urban myths like this one.
Kibolonia
24-02-2006, 21:53
and bears. bears kill people too
Remember some helpful tips:
23: Don't have honey
24: Bicycle kick
25: Hum
Syniks
24-02-2006, 22:22
Of course, "Islamic Terrorisim" is less about Islam (the Religion) than Islam/Sharia - the theopolitical system/worldview of the 3rd-world Islamic States.

Unfortunately, because Islam in the East is a political system as well as a religion, it becomes both fair, and unfair to call the sectarian and anti-west violence an "Islamic" problem.

Tim Cavanaugh puts much of this into perspective in his article about the Intoonfada. http://www.reason.com/cavanaugh/022206.shtml

Theopolitical Islam is not Islam, but a political system that, like its facist cousin, relies on violence and threats of violence to accomplish its goals - locally and on a global scale. That is why there are few radical Muslims in the US, but many and vocal ones elsewhere. It's not their religion, but it IS their political system.

Just as I oppose any violent dictatorship, I oppose Theopolitical Islam.
CrimsonPermntAssurance
24-02-2006, 22:40
Religion gives people an excuse to kill people, and with the excuse, they grow far more, dangerously more, willing to do so.

That's bullschnikey! Basic human emotions like greed, fear of change, and inherent distrust of those not like you are the real reasons for these crimes. Blaming it on religion (the pretext) instead of the above reasons is committing an argumentative error.

Your thread of logic yields these conclusions:

Remove religion and you'd have a more peaceful world.

Atheists are less prone to violence than those with faith (ask Stalin about that one)

Think about it.