NationStates Jolt Archive

i have been toying with isolationism for awhile now....i like helping people..alot,but everyone hates us and seems that we can do no good,even when we try(aside from our imperialistic oil foraging)so whats the point?

on one hand,i think the strong should help the less fortunate..and gasp..even intervene when people are being abused..
but on the other hand...why help people that spit in your face,and like some on this forum think..we can do no good...so why bother?

it is pretty obvious to me,that the u.s. could give all it's money to the third world,take them in,feed them,and most would appreciate it...but some,not even the recipients,would claim there is a zionist plot or we have ulteriour motives!
some people just cant get their head around the fact that there are decent americans that are trying to do good in the world..and gasp again..even the government types.

maybe i am getting sour,but it is tiresome to hear nothing but negative about my country,when we do good in the world,cause it doesnt fit into someones preconcieved attitude that america is the "great whore" evil and their politics wont allow them to see beyond their notion of america =evil
yet are the first to complain that americans consider muslim =evil...which i would say most dont.

i guess it would be easier to close our doors,maintain trade with countries..and cut aid/the un/everything!

let everyone find a new boogie man to hate,with the added bonus of us not wasting money/lives and effort to help people that hate us anyhow..let alone the america haters no matter what we do!

rant off...sorry

Robin William's Peace Plan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You gotta love Robin Williams......
Even if he's nuts! Leave it to Robin
Williams to come up with the perfect
plan. What we need now is for our
UN Ambassador to stand up and
repeat this message.

Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to
argue with this logic!)

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace
but I have not heard of a plan for
peace. So, here's one plan."

1) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past &present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those "good ole boys", we will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave.We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available
to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort
to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while .

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given
to the army. The people who need
it most get very little, if anything.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer
saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "

Some of those ideas are quite interesting. Of course all those illegal aliens are the maids of wealthy people and the grunts of companies so they might actually complain...

Disreguarding just how stupid isolation would be, and how quickly the US would fall if it tried to do so, you're quoting an urban legend:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp

Disreguarding just how stupid isolation would be, and how quickly the US would fall if it tried to do so, you're quoting an urban legend:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp
As good as he was in Good Will Hunting, he's always been an overrated comedian. Good to know that he is not an idiot.

Disreguarding just how stupid isolation would be, and how quickly the US would fall if it tried to do so, you're quoting an urban legend:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp
Yeah, that didn't seem like Williams at all...


7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
Up until they get a fair market price from India or China or...

The only thing on that whole list that Robin Williams wrote is the Statue of Liberty joke at the end. You lose.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace.
It is already in Manhattan, what else do you want?

It is already in Manhattan, what else do you want?

Maybe we could move it to Hong Kong or Singapore or some other isolated island.

I've been an isolationist for quite some time now, and I agree with Robin Williams completely. Except the 90 days thing, it should be changed to no time at all. They will be too hard to keep track of if we let them in. I think we should bring our citizens home, kick out the immigrants, legal or illegal, and just declare everyone in the world is now and forever not American (besides the American citizens of course). No one comes into the country, unless they are willing to be escorted by a police officer and/or soldier at all times and have a tracker placed on them. Foreign Aid in any way, shape, and form is done. Trade is shut down to the greatest possible extent, especially with areas like the middle east that like to bitch and moan about "American presence". When they lose their biggest market and starve because they are getting no aid we'll see who wants to call us "meddlers". Even if they renounce their claims against us, we still don't trade with them, because they already had their chance and it's too late now. Tough cookies to everyone who relied on us, you should have been more self-sufficent.

I've been an isolationist for quite some time now, and I agree with Robin Williams completely. Except the 90 days thing, it should be changed to no time at all. They will be too hard to keep track of if we let them in. I think we should bring our citizens home, kick out the immigrants, legal or illegal, and just declare everyone in the world is now and forever not American (besides the American citizens of course). No one comes into the country, unless they are willing to be escorted by a police officer and/or soldier at all times and have a tracker placed on them. Foreign Aid in any way, shape, and form is done. Trade is shut down to the greatest possible extent, especially with areas like the middle east that like to bitch and moan about "American presence". When they lose their biggest market and starve because they are getting no aid we'll see who wants to call us "meddlers". Even if they renounce their claims against us, we still don't trade with them, because they already had their chance and it's too late now. Tough cookies to everyone who relied on us, you should have been more self-sufficent.

If we do that China assume our previous role within 15 minutes.

I've been an isolationist for quite some time now, and I agree with Robin Williams completely. Except the 90 days thing, it should be changed to no time at all. They will be too hard to keep track of if we let them in. I think we should bring our citizens home, kick out the immigrants, legal or illegal, and just declare everyone in the world is now and forever not American (besides the American citizens of course). No one comes into the country, unless they are willing to be escorted by a police officer and/or soldier at all times and have a tracker placed on them. Foreign Aid in any way, shape, and form is done. Trade is shut down to the greatest possible extent, especially with areas like the middle east that like to bitch and moan about "American presence". When they lose their biggest market and starve because they are getting no aid we'll see who wants to call us "meddlers". Even if they renounce their claims against us, we still don't trade with them, because they already had their chance and it's too late now. Tough cookies to everyone who relied on us, you should have been more self-sufficent.

This plan would make it very hard to play NHL games down there.

I've been an isolationist for quite some time now, and I agree with Robin Williams completely. Except the 90 days thing, it should be changed to no time at all. They will be too hard to keep track of if we let them in. I think we should bring our citizens home, kick out the immigrants, legal or illegal, and just declare everyone in the world is now and forever not American (besides the American citizens of course). No one comes into the country, unless they are willing to be escorted by a police officer and/or soldier at all times and have a tracker placed on them. Foreign Aid in any way, shape, and form is done. Trade is shut down to the greatest possible extent, especially with areas like the middle east that like to bitch and moan about "American presence". When they lose their biggest market and starve because they are getting no aid we'll see who wants to call us "meddlers". Even if they renounce their claims against us, we still don't trade with them, because they already had their chance and it's too late now. Tough cookies to everyone who relied on us, you should have been more self-sufficent.
Did you bother to read the rest of the posts on here? That was NOT (for 90 percent of it) Robin Williams

I think the biggest wake up call would not be how much the world depends on us, but on how much we depend on the rest of the world...
kick out the immigrants, legal or illegal,
That'll make the Native Americans happy...but where's everyone else going to go? Do I go to Norway, or Ireland?

Maybe we could move it to Hong Kong or Singapore or some other isolated island.
Hong Kong kicks ass, I would never inflict the UN on them. And since we're looking for desolate islands, well, Manhattan has:

Desolate wasteland on which nothing will grow - Check
Filled with angry locals who aren't too fond of anything - Check
Mechanized death waiting to strike at any minute - Check
Disease filled miasma, breeding plagues by the dozen - Check
Isoloated from the rest of the world, by both geography and culture - Check

They *gestures south* are just perfect for each other.

That'll make the Native Americans happy...but where's everyone else going to go? Do I go to Norway, or Ireland?
Well, if well-meaning people thought that former slaves of all origins would feel at home in Liberia, we could give you plot somewhere in Eurasia. Antwhere, it don't matter. And then you could become our ruling elite, causing inter-communal tensions that would require the intervention of the US government.

I've been an isolationist for quite some time now, and I agree with Robin Williams completely. Except the 90 days thing, it should be changed to no time at all. They will be too hard to keep track of if we let them in. I think we should bring our citizens home, kick out the immigrants, legal or illegal, and just declare everyone in the world is now and forever not American (besides the American citizens of course). No one comes into the country, unless they are willing to be escorted by a police officer and/or soldier at all times and have a tracker placed on them. Foreign Aid in any way, shape, and form is done. Trade is shut down to the greatest possible extent, especially with areas like the middle east that like to bitch and moan about "American presence". When they lose their biggest market and starve because they are getting no aid we'll see who wants to call us "meddlers". Even if they renounce their claims against us, we still don't trade with them, because they already had their chance and it's too late now. Tough cookies to everyone who relied on us, you should have been more self-sufficent.
Heh. Fuck that, I'm an american citizen and I'm not leaving Canada to go live in the states. Especially if I'm being forced to stay there.

Some of those ideas are quite interesting. Of course all those illegal aliens are the maids of wealthy people and the grunts of companies so they might actually complain...
All those illegals are actually the backbone of the American economy. Ship them out and industry collapses.

All those illegals are actually the backbone of the American economy. Ship them out and industry collapses.
There is always a tacit implication involve with this that has never sat easy with me. It in essence means that we need a second class of citizen with fewer rights, less pay and the hovering threat of deportation in order to maintain our society-that we could not pay the people who do these jobs a more competitive rate and actually allow them full participation in our society. I know there are more complexities and intricacies involved, but it is implied and has never sat easy with me.

Maybe we could move it to Hong Kong or Singapore or some other isolated island.
I vote for Haiti. Cuba is a good second choice.

I vote for Haiti. Cuba is a good second choice.
And let them enjoy the climate and thriving sex trade? I don't think so.

All those illegals are actually the backbone of the American economy. Ship them out and industry collapses.
You do realize we have millions of unemployed American citizens right? I think they could quite easily fill the void.

Heh. Fuck that, I'm an american citizen and I'm not leaving Canada to go live in the states. Especially if I'm being forced to stay there.
You don't have to come, it's just you won't be able to come back in, like ever.

That'll make the Native Americans happy...but where's everyone else going to go? Do I go to Norway, or Ireland?
I didn't mean it like that. I meant all "foreigners" or "non-citizens" something along those lines. Not literally everyone besides the aboriginals.

Did you bother to read the rest of the posts on here? That was NOT (for 90 percent of it) Robin Williams
I was already replying before that information came in.

This plan would make it very hard to play NHL games down there.
I think we might be able to live with the NHL excluding the Canadian teams. Just barely, but I bet we'll stick it out.

If we do that China assume our previous role within 15 minutes.
Yes, I can definitely see China's population spending the money we do. Surrre. And wages in China will magically jump 2000% as soon as we go into isolation? Yeah that seems likely. :rolleyes: Seriously think things through a bit.

Disreguarding just how stupid isolation would be, and how quickly the US would fall if it tried to do so, you're quoting an urban legend:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp

i read it else where,and copied it,for discussion purposes,if it is not accurate..i apologise.

however,i thought it raised interesting points...whether attributed to robin williams or my dumb ass.

but my question still remains...everyone hates us..so why bother?

i am not saying i agree with isolationism,but i am also curious as to others points of view..especially everyone that hates america and wish's us ill will,when we do good and get spit on for it.
we do bad also,i know that..show me a country that does not do things in there best interest,we just do it on a grander scale.because we are bigger and economically more persuasive.

it's like the lord of the flies or communism...works great with a small group(read family/tiny country)but in the grander scheme of things...it does not..human nature and all...you may be the most eglatarian person in the world..i bet some jerk down the street will use you and take advantage of your good nature..has happened to me.

but too the point...would the world be more tolerant or happy if america withdrew from the world and just left everyone to there own devices?

and the argument about global economy is fallacious...as much as we need you..you need us more.
we did not get where we are by being dependant on others...the oposite is actually true..and yes that sounds cocky..not meant that way..just that,america could fold up it's tents and we will survive...but others...especialy china would drop like a glass jawed boxer without our biz...our only achilles heal is oil....and i have a feeling we allready know that.

and as far as illegalls go,it would probably benefit the average guy if they were not here..the corporations..nope..but average joe..yep.
and america's strongest suit is it's ability to adapt and over come,let alone our ability to make do attitude and work ethic...actually that would light a fire under some of the lazy mtv kids asses..lol

I think we might be able to live with the NHL excluding the Canadian teams. Just barely, but I bet we'll stick it out.
Good luck having an NHL composed of only american players. lol.

Good luck having an NHL composed of only american players. lol.
Perhaps we should weigh relative values.

Hmm, hockey vs national safety...err this is a tough one, but I think I let the NHL die so thousands of Americans can live. I sure do hope I made the right decision on this one...

This is the... 5th time (IIRC) that this has shown up in the year I've been on General, and it still just shows how people don't understand just how connected the US is to the rest of the globe. So let me try, again.

but my question still remains...everyone hates us..so why bother?
Because we need the rest of the globe, and we want the rest of the globe at the same time. The US, as it has been noted, is like a big friendly dog in a small room, everytime it wags its tail, it knocks a chair over. We've done a lot of good, we've also done a lot of bad, and a lot of things that are hypocritical considering that we have no qualms about forcing other countries to addopt our rules.

The main reason we're getting attacked is because we're the biggest and strongest, we make a handy target. When we were smaller, we did the same against the UK. When we fall, we'll go back to the same, only our target will be whoever replaces us. World politics in action.

and the argument about global economy is fallacious...as much as we need you..you need us more.
Bull. The US imports tons of products and manufatured goods. We also import raw materials that we are unable to produce ourselves, or at cost. You cut that off, prices go sky high. Wal*Mart closes, and people are very, VERY unhappy.

We may be able to survive, but not with the lifestyle Americans have come to know and demand. We may have come to this place largely on our own (which is also false, nation of immigrants and all that), but we're in a connected world.

Oil as our weakness? Bullshit, MONEY is our weakness. Our debt, that national timebomb being run up by President Bush is bought and held by... China! And Japan. And a whole lot of other countries. They keep the nation running by buying that stuff, and we average Americans keep our economy running by buying junk from China, Japan, and Korea. You shut that pipeline off, they call in our debts... well, the Great Depression would sound like fast times with a high standard of living.

We also have no manufactoring any more. Shut off China and the rest... who's going to make the stuff you want to buy?

No, we are fully dependant upon them to give us stuff to buy as they are dependant upon us to buy their stuff. The notion of the United States as a self-sustaning country is woefully out of date. It has been a very long time since that was the case, a very long time.

and as far as illegalls go,it would probably benefit the average guy if they were not here..the corporations..nope..but average joe..yep.
and america's strongest suit is it's ability to adapt and over come,let alone our ability to make do attitude and work ethic...actually that would light a fire under some of the lazy mtv kids asses..lol
Get rid of illegal immogration, same thing. The cost of your orange just went through the roof. The last serious attempt at such brought howls of outrage by growers from California to Florida, they lost all the folks willing to pick YOUR bloody tomatoe for just a $1 an hour. Washington quickly backtracked in the face of the protests from buisness.

Get rid of legal immigration, and the US slowly dies. It'll start doing what Japan is currently doing, stop having kids. The families producing the most kids are... immigrants! That's been the only reason the US maintains such good growth is through those immigrants coming in and having lots of babies.

Oh, and we also lose the best source of technical degree holders as the average American kid doesn't seem to care too much about math and science these days. Pitty.

This is the... 5th time (IIRC) that this has shown up in the year I've been on General, and it still just shows how people don't understand just how connected the US is to the rest of the globe. So let me try, again.


Because we need the rest of the globe, and we want the rest of the globe at the same time. The US, as it has been noted, is like a big friendly dog in a small room, everytime it wags its tail, it knocks a chair over. We've done a lot of good, we've also done a lot of bad, and a lot of things that are hypocritical considering that we have no qualms about forcing other countries to addopt our rules.

The main reason we're getting attacked is because we're the biggest and strongest, we make a handy target. When we were smaller, we did the same against the UK. When we fall, we'll go back to the same, only our target will be whoever replaces us. World politics in action.


Bull. The US imports tons of products and manufatured goods. We also import raw materials that we are unable to produce ourselves, or at cost. You cut that off, prices go sky high. Wal*Mart closes, and people are very, VERY unhappy.

We may be able to survive, but not with the lifestyle Americans have come to know and demand. We may have come to this place largely on our own (which is also false, nation of immigrants and all that), but we're in a connected world.

Oil as our weakness? Bullshit, MONEY is our weakness. Our debt, that national timebomb being run up by President Bush is bought and held by... China! And Japan. And a whole lot of other countries. They keep the nation running by buying that stuff, and we average Americans keep our economy running by buying junk from China, Japan, and Korea. You shut that pipeline off, they call in our debts... well, the Great Depression would sound like fast times with a high standard of living.

We also have no manufactoring any more. Shut off China and the rest... who's going to make the stuff you want to buy?

No, we are fully dependant upon them to give us stuff to buy as they are dependant upon us to buy their stuff. The notion of the United States as a self-sustaning country is woefully out of date. It has been a very long time since that was the case, a very long time.


Get rid of illegal immogration, same thing. The cost of your orange just went through the roof. The last serious attempt at such brought howls of outrage by growers from California to Florida, they lost all the folks willing to pick YOUR bloody tomatoe for just a $1 an hour. Washington quickly backtracked in the face of the protests from buisness.

Get rid of legal immigration, and the US slowly dies. It'll start doing what Japan is currently doing, stop having kids. The families producing the most kids are... immigrants! That's been the only reason the US maintains such good growth is through those immigrants coming in and having lots of babies.

Oh, and we also lose the best source of technical degree holders as the average American kid doesn't seem to care too much about math and science these days. Pitty.


good points...i am to tired to rebute you...but you do make valid points..so i will concede

yes a cocky american actually saying you may have a pont...but your wrong on the economic issue...especially about china...think a minute.

i am too tired too go point by point...i am drunk listening to desree..crazy maze..i am afraid we our all living in a crazy maze..lol

thanks for your input though....i will think about your points..as any rational person would.

and i will confess ...you did make valid points.

let me see the sunrise and maybe rebut your points..but now..i am kinda agreeing with you..except the whole china analogy;)

It is a hoax...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp