NationStates Jolt Archive

that anyone on the opposite of the political aisle from George W. Bush who criticizes him is a Bush-hater, while anyone from the same side of the political aisle as him is lauded as being courageous?

What makes Bruce Bartlett, Paul O'Neill and Paul Pillar (conservative economist and analyst, former Secretary of the Treasury, and 28-year CIA veteran, respectively), who have all written books critical of the Bush administration, courageous, while Joe Conason, Eric Alterman, and Al Franken are all easily dismissed as Bush haters?

I'm just looking for some enlightenment on this. Someone, anyone, help me out on this.

By the way, I'm referring to this article (http://www.slate.com/id/2136717/) in Slate by John Dickerson when I ask these questions--he's not asking them; he's simply calling the above-mentioned conservatives courageous while calling opposition writers "lefty hacks." And this is a guy who's a fairly regular guest on Al Franken's show, mind you.

Well I think anyone who defects from the Administration or speaks out against is branded as an anti-American traitor. Remember how FOX launched the major smear campaign against Richard Clarke after he published his book? Or when they (Karl Rove Inc.) smeared John McCain in the 2000 presidential race merely for running against Bush?

Well I think anyone who defects from the Administration or speaks out against is branded as an anti-American traitor. Remember how FOX launched the major smear campaign against Richard Clarke after he published his book? Or when they (Karl Rove Inc.) smeared John McCain in the 2000 presidential race merely for running against Bush?
Okay, granted that it's more difficult to turn against your own, so while I think courageous is a bit of a stretch, I can see the argument.

But why, then, is it automatic that anyone critical is automatically a hater? I'd really like some conservatives to weigh in on this.

that anyone on the opposite of the political aisle from George W. Bush who criticizes him is a Bush-hater, while anyone from the same side of the political aisle as him is lauded as being courageous?

What makes Bruce Bartlett, Paul O'Neill and Paul Pillar (conservative economist and analyst, former Secretary of the Treasury, and 28-year CIA veteran, respectively), who have all written books critical of the Bush administration, courageous, while Joe Conason, Eric Alterman, and Al Franken are all easily dismissed as Bush haters?

I'm just looking for some enlightenment on this. Someone, anyone, help me out on this.

By the way, I'm referring to this article (http://www.slate.com/id/2136717/) in Slate by John Dickerson when I ask these questions--he's not asking them; he's simply calling the above-mentioned conservatives courageous while calling opposition writers "lefty hacks." And this is a guy who's a fairly regular guest on Al Franken's show, mind you.


i suppose some of it is the whole "more joy over a sinner repenting" thing. And other bits is down to the fact that even when there are issues of truth, probity and national security on the line, even when they are handed undeniable killer evidence that they can't suppress, some political pundits can't stop themselves from playing party political games over the issues.

People who hate Bush are going to play up the "Republican with a heart of gold, fleeing the power of the Fourth Reich to bring the Heroic truth to the people" angle as much as possible. When the other guy's crew starts bailing on him, it is hard not to gloat.
People who like Drama are going to play up the same angle, remember all that racket about Jim Jeffords? He left the Republican party and was all over the news as a prominent Senator bailing out. Now? Nobody really gives a damn about him, and nobody cared about him before the controversy.
The writers are going to play to whatever controversy will help them flog more books. If they can claim to have crossed enemy lines and seen the light, and if that claim earns them another few minutes in the spotlight, then they'll go for it.
People who like Bush are going to ignore them, as they ignore all other evidence that Dear Leader might be failing horribly.
People who like cheese sandwiches won't be terribly impressed either way, unless they belong to an earlier mentioned group.

The thing that bothers me sometimes is what they do to Paul Krugman. That man is a very good economist. He's done some real work in the discipline.

And yet people just dismiss him like nothing he says has any weight.

But why, then, is it automatic that anyone critical is automatically a hater? I'd really like some conservatives to weigh in on this.
Is it not mind-glaringly obvious? People would ather call names than admit they might be wrong.

As soon as you get a broad spectrum of conservatives that say this I'll answer the question fully. As to why he specifically does it, I ain't psychic. Although Al Franken most certainly is a lefty hack. Hell, he's just a hack period. I thought that when I was in 9th and 10th grade and politically a democrat, and it still applies today, even though my political affiliation has majorly changed, mainly because I stopped listening to the mainstream news as my main source of political information. Heh, Baens bar is a useful forum.

As soon as you get a broad spectrum of conservatives that say this I'll answer the question fully. As to why he specifically does it, I ain't psychic. Although Al Franken most certainly is a lefty hack. Hell, he's just a hack period. I thought that when I was in 9th and 10th grade and politically a democrat, and it still applies today, even though my political affiliation has majorly changed, mainly because I stopped listening to the mainstream news as my main source of political information. Heh, Baens bar is a useful forum.

What? Are you drinking again? ;)

Is it not mind-glaringly obvious? People would ather call names than admit they might be wrong.

And that goes to both sides of the aisle in my opinion.

And that goes to both sides of the aisle in my opinion.
no doubt

What? Are you drinking again? ;)
Do you consider ingesting 240 mg of caffeine in the past 45 minutes to be drinking? If so, then yes. God I love Bawls.

No., They're all Bush haters. ;)

As soon as you get a broad spectrum of conservatives that say this I'll answer the question fully. As to why he specifically does it, I ain't psychic. Although Al Franken most certainly is a lefty hack. Hell, he's just a hack period. I thought that when I was in 9th and 10th grade and politically a democrat, and it still applies today, even though my political affiliation has majorly changed, mainly because I stopped listening to the mainstream news as my main source of political information. Heh, Baens bar is a useful forum.


Funny. The less I listen to the "mainstream media" (it really should be called the "fast food media",) and instead do my own research and compare and contrast myriad sources, the more I see that the Republicans (and to a lesser extent the Dems, but still up there,) are cronyistic corporate asshats.

Funny. The less I listen to the "mainstream media" (it really should be called the "fast food media",) and instead do my own research and compare and contrast myriad sources, the more I see that the Republicans (and to a lesser extent the Dems, but still up there,) are cronyistic corporate asshats.
Would you care to back up that clearly biased and inflammatory statement with factual information?

Would you care to back up that clearly biased and inflammatory statement with factual information?
It's opinion. The same thing that makes you think his statement is biased. It's also how FOX news gets off reporting their "news" because it is mainly opinion, and as you're seeing now, impossible to disprove.

It's opinion. The same thing that makes you think his statement is biased. It's also how FOX news gets off reporting their "news" because it is mainly opinion, and as you're seeing now, impossible to disprove.

ALL stations have opinions, but Fox News does actually report the news then provide the commentary to go with the news. That is why Fox News kills CNN and MSNBC in the ratings month after month.

ALL stations have opinions, but Fox News does actually report the news then provide the commentary to go with the news. That is why Fox News kills CNN and MSNBC in the ratings month after month.
Not to mention they have Bill O Reilly, who either makes people hate the people he hates, or makes people hate him. Very constructive man, I must say!

Not to mention they have Bill O Reilly, who either makes people hate the people he hates, or makes people hate him. Very constructive man, I must say!

Should see some of his email. He gets hate letters from both sides of the aisle. It really is quite funny.

ALL stations have opinions, but Fox News does actually report the news then provide the commentary to go with the news.
Who says "commentary" forms part of the service of providing the news?

Only an American would assume this to be in any way normal. And that's only 'cause there's no longer a Soviet Union, a Fascist Spain, or a Nazi Germany.

that anyone on the opposite of the political aisle from George W. Bush who criticizes him is a Bush-hater, while anyone from the same side of the political aisle as him is lauded as being courageous?

Because, Nazz, anyone from Bush's side of the aisle is probably guaranteeing his own political doom by speaking up. Even when you disagree with your party's leadership, saying so in public is shooting yourself in the foot. You need your party members' support to get your bills passed, to get yourself positioned on the committees you want, to get invitations to the best gigs, to get any sort of favor at all... because God knows the other party won't give you any. A democrat gets a pat on the back from his team for making a legitimate gripe about prez & co. A republican gets stabbed in his.

That... well... it takes courage.

Because, Nazz, anyone from Bush's side of the aisle is probably guaranteeing his own political doom by speaking up. Even when you disagree with your party's leadership, saying so in public is shooting yourself in the foot. You need your party members' support to get your bills passed, to get yourself positioned on the committees you want, to get invitations to the best gigs, to get any sort of favor at all... because God knows the other party won't give you any. A democrat gets a pat on the back from his team for making a legitimate gripe about prez & co. A republican gets stabbed in his.

That... well... it takes courage.
Looks and logic too??? I think I'm in love! :D

that anyone on the opposite of the political aisle from George W. Bush who criticizes him is a Bush-hater, while anyone from the same side of the political aisle as him is lauded as being courageous?

Don't know. Don't care.

I am a proud Bush-hater. I will have "Bush sucks donkey dick" on my tombstone. I've hated him since he first set foot in the Texas Governor's mansion. He and I go way back.

However, it is expected that I hate him. I am, after all, a pinko liberal. So no pats on the back for me.