NationStates Jolt Archive

Following the logics of diverse people, claiming Islam to be a violent religion because some use it as a blanket to cover their actions, I hereby claim Christianity to be an equally violent religion.
Link?
Link. (http://allafrica.com/stories/200602210761.html)

OMG! YOU RACIST!! YOU BIGOT!!! HOW COULD YOU SUGGEST THAT!!!!


Ahem.

Carry on. BTW -- not the best example, given that since Nigerian Muslims had attacked Christians immediately before, it's likely reprisals and not religious hatred in and of itself that sparked the attacks. Perhaps you should find an example relatively unmuddied by a "he started it?"

Following the logics of diverse people, claiming Islam to be a violent religion because some use it as a blanket to cover their actions, I hereby claim Christianity to be an equally violent religion.
Link?
Link. (http://allafrica.com/stories/200602210761.html)
You're wrong ... period. :p

You're wrong ... period. :p

No, he/she isn't.

Following the logics of diverse people, claiming Islam to be a violent religion because some use it as a blanket to cover their actions, I hereby claim Christianity to be an equally violent religion.
Seems to be a correct notion.

Heck, most religions are violent in some aspect or another - I read there are even a few violent Buddhists a few days ago on here, which surprised me. I doubt there are more than a few violent religions.

Well, maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

And the Mormons...

EDIT: I mean 'aspects' as in some groups/extremists etc. Not the whole religion. Christianity/Islam etc are all peace-based religions.

By violence, I assume you mean of a physical nature; in which case, I narrowly disagree. The Christian name is less used in the current age as a flag for violence than the Islamic name - most westerners use other words and ideas for their excuses.

If, however, you meant "aggression", then I certainly would agree with you. The two labels are equally aggressive.

Yes, it is. Oh sure, been some problems with certain Christians and their groups - Fred Phelps, Saddam's 2nd in command, Slobodan Milošević, etc - but they don't paint the picture of what Christianity is, what it means, or that for which it stands: Peace, Brotherhood, Love.

No, he/she isn't.
Heh! :p

might be correct but i think its too general. like you said SOME use religion as a cover...is that the religions fault? Well that probably sounds like rubbish, but alot of religious people just use there religion to be good people. So it depends how you think it matters in the Big Scheme Of Things :)

Since religions are built of people who need no proof to devote their lives, and indeed, very souls to an ideal, it is not hard to imagine a charismatic leader bending the ears of the "believers" with whatever sort of mistruth/halftruth and creating an army of people who would do anything and everything necessary to keep their immortal souls out of harm's way.

So in that respect, I think any religion that is populated with truly religous people has a possibility of being violent, though that is not the will or the intent of the religion at large.

You're wrong ... period. :p
Just because you don't agree with something, it isn't automatically incorrect. You are not (excuse the irony) God (I am). As far as I'm concerned, the basis of pretty much every religion (short of Satanism) is love all other people, regardless. Christianity adhears to this stanard, but, like Islam, is abused and used as a weapon. For example, one of the most basic teachings of the Bible is 'Love thy neighbor,' not 'All gay people should go to hell,' yet Christianity is used to support hatred of people based on sexual orentation. A more clear example is this: just because an item (let's say a nail file) has the potential to kill, wat males it a true weapon is the person holding (if a manacurist is holding a nail file, it's a tool of the trade; if a sociopath attemps to stab someone with it, the nail file is a weapon).

You are not (excuse the irony) God (I am). As far as I'm concerned, the basis of pretty much every religion (short of Satanism) is love all other people, regardless.
Ooh, self-contradiction.

If the basis for all religion is other people then he is God.

Crusades, anyone? :p

yay religious debate! *places a bucket to catch the dripping sarcasm*

It's not really the religion in essence being a religion of hate. it's the way people chose to interpret it which is where the problem lies. Fundamentally most (generalisation alert!) religions are the same just written differently with different names and stuff. And yet there are warring fueds between different groups of the same religion? The problem lies with extremeists and those who have just decided to blow things out of proportion and use the religion as an excuse for their actions. There are people like this in most (alert alert!) religions. It's silly to say that all Muslims are hate fuelled killing machines and it's also silly to say that all Christians are bigotted gay-bashers.

Bring on freedom of speech yea! People just need to get over their arrogant pride and learn tolerance. :)

Crusades, anyone? :p

You don't have to go that far back.

Heh! :p

Excellent counterpoint.

By violence, I assume you mean of a physical nature; in which case, I narrowly disagree. The Christian name is less used in the current age as a flag for violence than the Islamic name - most westerners use other words and ideas for their excuses.

If, however, you meant "aggression", then I certainly would agree with you. The two labels are equally aggressive.

anything an arab does the media will depict as either islamic extreamism or baathist.... they just can come to grips with the fact that iraqi's don't like being bombed, shelled, tortured, raped, beaten, humiliated, and puppeted around by a foreign invading army, and the general lack of simularitys between arabic and english makes it very easy to manipulate translations.

Excellent counterpoint.
To what you posted? Definitely! :D

Just because you don't agree with something, it isn't automatically incorrect. You are not (excuse the irony) God (I am). As far as I'm concerned, the basis of pretty much every religion (short of Satanism) is love all other people, regardless.

depends on what type of Satanism you're talking about, Levy [sp?] Satanism would probably be a noted exception....... and I'm not sure how much other brands of Satanism exsist, or if they are just mythes perpetrated by fear mongering priest and politicians.

To what you posted? Definitely! :D

How did you put it?
Just giving as good as I get, old boy.

You post a little snide response, you get one in return. Then you follow with "Heh".

Preety much any religion can be used to justify pretty much anything, or to say something isnt right.

Hell, there have been violent buddhists even.

So, yes Christianity is as violent as all other religions

And at the same time, it is as peaceful as other religions.

Christianity isn't violent. Islam isn't violent. Both of these are concepts. Regardless of whether they are true or not, both of them for all intents and purposes only exist on this planet as ideas. I have never been punched by a Bible, nor verbally abused and/or set on fire by a Koran.

It's people that are violent.

Following the logics of diverse people, claiming Islam to be a violent religion because some use it as a blanket to cover their actions, I hereby claim Christianity to be an equally violent religion.
Link?
Link. (http://allafrica.com/stories/200602210761.html)
You know what? You're absolutely right.
Christianity is no less violent. Look at all the vicious crusades and witch burnings that happened when it still had power. also, the Jew extremination in the Third Reich was officially condoned by the church! (I think they might have even suggested to the Nazis to use the Jews as their main target.)

Luckily, we have the separation of church and state over here, which renders the chruch rather powerless - and this is the *only* reason why it doesn't appear as violent as the Islam! It simply doesn't have the power to do so, but if it had, it would probably act no different.

yeah its a religion of peace...idealistically. [if thats a word] and its not nice to single out religions cause there supposed to be violent. Religions are like different theories or ideas, we have theories and ideas without any religion, theres violence anyway, if it religion wasn't the cover something else would be. But mostly, so far as I know, christianity aims to create peace. i mean 'love one another'...says it all, don't it?

Christianity isn't violent. Islam isn't violent. Both of these are concepts. Regardless of whether they are true or not, both of them for all intents and purposes only exist on this planet as ideas. I have never been punched by a Bible, nor verbally abused and/or set on fire by a Koran.

It's people that are violent.
Thank you. Had you not made this post, I would have made a comment similiar to it. People always want to find a reason behind violence when the answer is very simple. It is the people involved, nothing else.

Christianity isn't violent. Islam isn't violent. Both of these are concepts. Regardless of whether they are true or not, both of them for all intents and purposes only exist on this planet as ideas. I have never been punched by a Bible, nor verbally abused and/or set on fire by a Koran.

It's people that are violent.

Amen! I go to church, and the people I know there arn't bloodthirsty people. We help each other and the community. Other religous group I know don't put blame on people or condem them for actions, but they pray for those hurt in there path.

Edit: I should also mention groups that are blood thirsty and religous but I think you know they exist...

You know what? You're absolutely right.
Christianity is no less violent. Look at all the vicious crusades and witch burnings that happened when it still had power. also, the Jew extremination in the Third Reich was officially condoned by the church! (I think they might have even suggested to the Nazis to use the Jews as their main target.)

Luckily, we have the separation of church and state over here, which renders the chruch rather powerless - and this is the *only* reason why it doesn't appear as violent as the Islam! It simply doesn't have the power to do so, but if it had, it would probably act no different.
Are you unaware that christians were also a target by the Nazis?

And how the hell can you say that we have separation of church and state. On paper we do, but in reality, they are very tightly packed together.

All religions suck. The sooner people admit this the better.

[QUOTE=Zylonom]. . . Other religous group I know don't put blame on people or condem them for actions, but they pray for those hurt in there path.[QUOTE]

Precisely, the only exception to this is individuals who believe that they can take their religion into their own hands and speak for everyone as a spokesperson. Perfect example, Pat Robertson. If anyone has heard what he has said about people in New Orleans or about Homosexuals then you know what I am talking about.

You know what? You're absolutely right.
Christianity is no less violent. Look at all the vicious crusades and witch burnings that happened when it still had power. also, the Jew extremination in the Third Reich was officially condoned by the church! (I think they might have even suggested to the Nazis to use the Jews as their main target.)

Luckily, we have the separation of church and state over here, which renders the chruch rather powerless - and this is the *only* reason why it doesn't appear as violent as the Islam! It simply doesn't have the power to do so, but if it had, it would probably act no different.
i think you'v got it wrong, the bible doesn't say 'go burn witches' or 'kill jews' or what have you...and in this day and age has the church been burning witches? And since when has Islam been a violent religion anyway, maybe muslims have been but that doesn't mean the Qu'ran told them to be. tut.

It is and it isn't. I mean there was the time when Christians used religion for greed and such. Plus God has been known to have a temper before, annais and caphria(sp on both..its in acts), hell, etc...Plus if you look at the OT which christians use as part of the bible, there is nothing but warfare. Even the most beloved king of Israel, David, was a brutal warrior. So yes Christianity might have some peace to it ie love and sacrifice for others, but it has a violent part as well.

EDIT: I mean 'aspects' as in some groups/extremists etc. Not the whole religion. Christianity/Islam etc are all peace-based religions.

Well I think thats the debate. Peole know that Christians and Muslims have viloent pasts, but the question is, are their doctrines viloent. For me having the phrases "slay them [non believers] where you find them" and "Allah loves not agressors" in the same verse seems very contradictory.

Are you unaware that christians were also a target by the Nazis?
Those were rather the exception than the rule, especially with the higher ups - the higher you got, the more were condoning it at that time.

And how the hell can you say that we have separation of church and state. On paper we do, but in reality, they are very tightly packed together.
In the US the separation is quite weak indeed and growing weaker constantly (resulting in ugly things like an often highly puritan populace, disallowing same-gender marriages and abortions), but over here we actually have a working separation (ok, not the best either, but certainly working much better).

Oh my goodness....

Firstly, everyone should stop judging everyone and just do what they believe to be right.

Don't dog other religions, etc. because you don't agree with them. I myself am a Christian. I believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of my Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. Just because I don't believe or follow the Muslim, Buddhist, etc. doesn't mean I have the right to judge them.

When our time is up on this earth, we will all be judged. In my faith, you have to choose to serve the Lord. He doesn't force it on you. If you ask me about it, I will tell you what I believe and what the Lord has done for me and how he's changed me. Just because someone is not like you or believe the same things gives you absolutely no right to judge. Leave it God.

All religions have the potential to be twisted to justify violence - yes, even the often venerated buddhism has had very violent followers.

Theoretically, anyone following Christianity should be a pacifist. The commandment was "Thou shalt not kill", not "Thou shalt not kill unless you have a good reason for it" And then there's the whole thing about turning the other cheek. Yet it's very rarely the fundamentalist christians you see opposing the death penalty, wars and so on - the only killing they stand against is fetus killing.

I, as a born-again Christian (which is the only type of Christian), plead complexity on this issue.

The Crusades weren't the brightest moment in the history of the church, and people do continue to use the name of God as an excuse for military action.

With that said, Christianity wasn't intended to be a violent faith in the physical realm. We don't battle flesh and blood, but principalities of the dark. This means that there is an unseen battle between angels and demons for the souls of the human race.

If you want to know what I believe, I believe that the Bible is true from the front cover to the back cover, and that it's the true word of God and wasn't made by man. It's the very truth of God and not the invention of any man, and I know that some of you might tend to disagree with that.

The Bible does say that the greatest thing that God gave us is love.

Christianity isn't a religion, by the way. It is separated from religions in the sense that there is this concept of grace, or unmerited favor, which means that I don't have to do anything to earn my salvation.

I do realize that some of you might think that by views are incorrect about the existence of God, but that's to be expected.

Christianity isn't a religion, by the way. It is separated from religions in the sense that there is this concept of grace, or unmerited favor, which means that I don't have to do anything to earn my salvation.
I do not reject your opinion on other matters, but:
-only Protestantism* believes in grace as you described it (and not necessarily with the sense you gave it)
-the concept is not unique, and I could easily find its parallels in Sufism or Buddhism



----
*and, arguably and by default, the Eastern Orthodox

Oh my goodness....

Firstly, everyone should stop judging everyone and just do what they believe to be right.

Don't dog other religions, etc. because you don't agree with them. I myself am a Christian. I believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of my Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. Just because I don't believe or follow the Muslim, Buddhist, etc. doesn't mean I have the right to judge them.

When our time is up on this earth, we will all be judged. In my faith, you have to choose to serve the Lord. He doesn't force it on you. If you ask me about it, I will tell you what I believe and what the Lord has done for me and how he's changed me. Just because someone is not like you or believe the same things gives you absolutely no right to judge. Leave it God.


Religion is a matter of faith.

What do you believe about your faith? How well do you beliefs hold? Are they reasonable?

Extremism is just blindly answering "yes" to all of the above [except the first question, which isn't a yes/no question...]

I believe that I have the sanctioned right from God to go persecute/kill/maim/eradicate/annihilate/ignore/disturb/affect negatively any person who does not follow my faith!
My beliefs hold up because my faith is the only true faith and all people should be punished for it!
It is unreasonable not to believe in my faith; die all infidels!

How stupid does that sound? And just note that I didn't even differentiate between Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Atheism, and the lot...

[noting further that I didn't mention that the individual decisions regarding the choice of extremism as a means of faith are usually more detailed and complex than the above stated...]

IMHO there's only one religion of peace and that's Buddhism. All the other religions call themselves peaceful and then go out to kill people to prove it.

Not the Church og FSM, of course.

If you want to know what I believe, I believe that the Bible is true from the front cover to the back cover, and that it's the true word of God and wasn't made by man. It's the very truth of God and not the invention of any man, and I know that some of you might tend to disagree with that.

The Bible does say that the greatest thing that God gave us is love.

Christianity isn't a religion, by the way. It is separated from religions in the sense that there is this concept of grace, or unmerited favor, which means that I don't have to do anything to earn my salvation.

I do realize that some of you might think that by views are incorrect about the existence of God, but that's to be expected.

I likewise believe that the Bible is the word of God. My problem is that men wrote the actual book, so I do not trust the hands that wrote them...

If you say that Christianity isn't a religion, what is it then? Heck, secularism is a religion of the state; atheism is a religion of the non-existence of God; what is Christianity if it isn't a religion?

IMHO there's only one religion of peace and that's Buddhism. All the other religions call themselves peaceful and then go out to kill people to prove it.

Not the Church og FSM, of course.

In Korea, there were violent sects of Buddhism that tried to run a military state. Even in Tibet, the Buddhists were well-trained militants who sacked the capital of Tang China in the 9th Century.

And religion isn't about peace or war; it's about faith.

In Korea, there were violent sects of Buddhism that tried to run a military state. Even in Tibet, the Buddhists were well-trained militants who sacked the capital of Tang China in the 9th Century.

Don't forget the Samurai. The Bushido is a Zen code.

And religion isn't about peace or war; it's about faith.

Good point.

Not another religion thread...

*starts fire in trash bin under the curtains*

BURN BABY BURN

I'm christian, and though i don't believe that everything in the bible actually happened, i believe what it says (mostly) about the way we should live and treat eachother. The only reason religion causes violence is because of the contrast, but say for example a christian actually followed what the bible said, the contrast wouldn't matter. i mean the parable of the good samaritan, where the samaritan helps another dude (see im not exactly devoted, sorry)even though he has slightly different beliefs and other people robbed and rejected him. And once again 'LOVE ONE ANOTHER', it doesn't say 'love your fellow christians'! does it? i'm so repetitive.

IMHO there's only one religion of peace and that's Buddhism. All the other religions call themselves peaceful and then go out to kill people to prove it.

Not the Church og FSM, of course.
oh yeah, the religion goes out and kills people. And no person who belongs to Busshism has killed anybody. come off it! nobodys perfect. I'm not defending christians, i'm defending christianity...if you get my meaning.

It's a religion. So it actively promotes irrational thought. This often leads to pointless violence. Especially because it - like islam - claims a monopoly on ultimate truth - of course there is no proof for this, it is a matter of faith :rolleyes: - which applies to everyone.

This is bound to lead to violence sometimes. (Hell not so long ago in the UK the christians were still trying to get people jailed for blasphemy. plus ca change :rolleyes: ).

As far as I'm concerned, the basis of pretty much every religion (short of Satanism) is love all other people, regardless. Christianity adhears to this stanard, but, like Islam, is abused and used as a weapon. ).[/QUOTE]

alright, christanity can be abused just like islam. the crusades, and the irsh militants, 2 examples...

Christianity at its core has the teachings of Jesus. Jesus was a peaceful man, and these are reflected in the things he has said, such as "love thigh neighbour". When Jesus was put on trial, and then put up for execution, he did not even fight then.

Jesus was not a man that tried to conquer different cities to spread his religion. He did not wage a war from Medina in order to conquer Medina. He did not raid many caravans as they were travelling to different cities. He did not behead all the adult males of the Jewish tribe Banu Qurayza.

Jesus was not a man that tried to conquer different cities to spread his religion. He did not wage a war from Medina in order to conquer Medina. He did not raid many caravans as they were travelling to different cities. He did not behead all the adult males of the Jewish tribe Banu Qurayza.

Mmmmm ... building up your religion by denegrating another. How .... Christian. ;)

Christianity is good because it is good, not because others are bad. Learn to have it stand on its own merit or your faith is proven to be weak and false.

Christianity is good because it is good, not because others are bad. Learn to have it stand on its own merit or your faith is proven to be weak and false.

Well he does have a right to criticise, compare and contrast.

well george bush attacked iraq whilst keeping his cirizens sweet through the cover of christianity

so there is a lot which can be said about this topic


dont forget the crusades

um and the whole ireland catholic protestamt stuf thing thats also christian violence

Just because you don't agree with something, it isn't automatically incorrect. You are not (excuse the irony) God (I am). As far as I'm concerned, the basis of pretty much every religion (short of Satanism) is love all other people, regardless. Christianity adhears to this stanard, but, like Islam, is abused and used as a weapon. For example, one of the most basic teachings of the Bible is 'Love thy neighbor,' not 'All gay people should go to hell,' yet Christianity is used to support hatred of people based on sexual orentation. A more clear example is this: just because an item (let's say a nail file) has the potential to kill, wat males it a true weapon is the person holding (if a manacurist is holding a nail file, it's a tool of the trade; if a sociopath attemps to stab someone with it, the nail file is a weapon).

the two greatest commandments in the Bible are:

1) Love your neighbor as yourself.

and

2)Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. (or three of the four... i forget).


nowhere is there a commandment or other such mandate or suggestion to go out and hate people, despise them, kill them, harm them, or lie to them.

If there are bad Christians, blame it on vanity and/or sociopathy (in varying degrees, of course), not Jesus or the Bible itself. And don't worry, if they're really bad and totally unChristian, they'll get theirs when they kneel before God.

Oh wow, we attacked Muslims after they torched us. I mean, that must make us so much more violent then those fanatics with bombs strapped to their backs blowing up anything that moves doesn't it?

well george bush attacked iraq whilst keeping his cirizens sweet through the cover of christianity

so there is a lot which can be said about this topic


dont forget the crusades

um and the whole ireland catholic protestamt stuf thing thats also christian violence

The Crusades? Those were centuries ago. Were talking about pricks saying that people should be executed for drawing a cartoon.


And what I don't understand is how people follow a man who destroyed a city when people didn't want to worship his God.

Christianity is a religion of peace. "Christians" who attack Muslims are as about as Christian as Mohommad Atta was Muslim.

"Hey, if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death! Has been for thousands of years. Hindus, jews, muslims, christians all taking turns killing eachother because God told them it was a good idea. The Sword of God, the Blood of the Land, Vengeance is mine. Millions of dead motherfuckers. Millions of dead motherfuckers all because they gave the wrong answer to the 'God Question':

'Do you believe in God?' 'No.' Boom. Dead.
'Do you believe in God?' 'Yes.' 'Do you believe in MY God?' 'No.' Boom Dead. 'My God has a bigger dick than your God!' "-George Carlin

Christianity is a religion of peace. "Christians" who attack Muslims are as about as Christian as Mohommad Atta was Muslim.

John O'Hurley, may I have your autograph per favore?

The Crusades? Those were centuries ago. Were talking about pricks saying that people should be executed for drawing a cartoon.

You twist history to your convenience. It is way too tiring to point out on how many levels you're wrong, and you strike me as a guy who'd not understand regardless.

Let me give you more recent examples of "Christians":
Tim McVeigh
Matthew F. Hale
Robert Jay Mathews
Miroslav Filipović

Google them. I could give many other examples.

And what I don't understand is how people follow a man who destroyed a city when people didn't want to worship his God.

Who that? Jesus, who endorsed the destruction of Jerusalem? The Byzantines, who massacred its Jewish population? And, in case you're referring to Muslims, wouldn't this too have been centuries ago?


Most religions are peaceful. Most have to be interpreted by morons.

Following the logics of diverse people, claiming Islam to be a violent religion because some use it as a blanket to cover their actions, I hereby claim Christianity to be an equally violent religion.
Link?
Link. (http://allafrica.com/stories/200602210761.html)

I thought that the claim that Islam is not a "religion of peace" was based on quotes from their holy book, directing people to go and kill the infidels.

On that basis, there are no quotes from the Bible directing any Christian(NT) to go out and kill anyone.

And if we were to follow the Jewish laws(OT), we would still have to have a trial before killing the false prophets, witches, adulterers, etc.

You twist history to your convenience. It is way too tiring to point out on how many levels you're wrong, and you strike me as a guy who'd not understand regardless.

Let me give you more recent examples of "Christians":
Tim McVeigh
Matthew F. Hale
Robert Jay Mathews
Miroslav Filipović

Google them. I could give many other examples.



Who that? Jesus, who endorsed the destruction of Jerusalem? The Byzantines, who massacred its Jewish population? And, in case you're referring to Muslims, wouldn't this too have been centuries ago?


Most religions are peaceful. Most have to be interpreted by morons.


Jesus endorsed what? Quote please.

Just because someone belongs to a religion and commits violence, does not mean that the religion "made him do it." Did each of the above examples claim that Christianity/Jesus made them do it?

Or can we use that for other groups? If a Democrat kills someone, does that mean the Democrat Party is violent? If a footballer kills someone, does that mean--whoops, bad example.

Following the logics of diverse people, claiming Islam to be a violent religion because some use it as a blanket to cover their actions, I hereby claim Christianity to be an equally violent religion.
Link?
Link. (http://allafrica.com/stories/200602210761.html)

The difference is that Islam sanctions such violence.

Although even if you were right, what difference would it make? Would Christianity being violent somehow absolve Islam of its wickedness (this is a question that no-one answers, ever)?

Jesus endorsed what? Quote please.

Don't Christians jubilate that J. was spot-on about the destruction of the Temple? Isn't that a confirmed prophecy? Lemme ask: wasn't it the Romans who confirmed it, by whiping out the City's original population?
I'm not saying this is what's to be read into the event. I'm saying that, if you take things out of context (which has been done for Islam), you easily get to such a point.

Just because someone belongs to a religion and commits violence, does not mean that the religion "made him do it." Did each of the above examples claim that Christianity/Jesus made them do it?
Or can we use that for other groups? If a Democrat kills someone, does that mean the Democrat Party is violent? If a footballer kills someone, does that mean--whoops, bad example.

I didn't just pick Christians, you know. I picked activist Christians (including a Franciscan priest). Wether you approve of it or not, you would have to concede that White Supremacy sees itself as a Christian doctrine (and a huge number of its leaders were clergy). Also, Apartheid was based on the doctrine of the South African Dutch Reformed Church (of little surprise, considering the dogma of Calvinism).
I do not endorse that a religion is violent (as opposed to another, or on its own). I think Islam and Christianity are religions of peace (in most cases, I would even consider "religion of peace" a tautology - even though I practice none).

Mmmmm ... building up your religion by denegrating another. How .... Christian. ;)

Christianity is good because it is good, not because others are bad. Learn to have it stand on its own merit or your faith is proven to be weak and false.


It's a shame for your theory I guess, since, I'm not Christian ;)

The OPs implied point of this topic was to contrast Christianity with Islam. I was simply pointing out the differences.

Christianity at its core has the teachings of Jesus. He preached love and peace. The early Christians wanted Christianity to be spread throughout the world. Jesus possibly wanted his message to be spread throughout the world.

However, in contrast, Mohammed clearly wanted to spread his religion. His method to spread his religion was war.

Christianity may have been hijacked during the Middle Ages by people who used Christianity as an excuse to wage war, but the Messiah himself would not lift a finger to harm anyone. Infact, he would only ever lift a finger against someone to raise them from the dead.
People claim that Islam has been hijacked by extremists. But at it's core Islam has the teachings of Mohammed, a warrior.

Don't Christians jubilate that J. was spot-on about the destruction of the Temple? Isn't that a confirmed prophecy? Lemme ask: wasn't it the Romans who confirmed it, by whiping out the City's original population?
I'm not saying this is what's to be read into the event. I'm saying that, if you take things out of context (which has been done for Islam), you easily get to such a point.



I didn't just pick Christians, you know. I picked activist Christians (including a Franciscan priest). Wether you approve of it or not, you would have to concede that White Supremacy sees itself as a Christian doctrine (and a huge number of its leaders were clergy). Also, Apartheid was based on the doctrine of the South African Dutch Reformed Church (of little surprise, considering the dogma of Calvinism).
I do not endorse that a religion is violent (as opposed to another, or on its own). I think Islam and Christianity are religions of peace (in most cases, I would even consider "religion of peace" a tautology - even though I practice none).

Biblical prophesies are not endorsements, they are prophesies. Jesus and other prophets in the Bible spoke of what was to come, not making suggestions or commands.

And yes, there are various groups that claim that the Bible directs them to be white supremacists or to hold slaves or discriminate or whatever, but they don't have any Biblical basis. In other words, they have no clear commands from the Bible or Jesus to do those things. And they have no example of Jesus doing those things. In fact, Jesus went out of his way to speak to non-Jewish women and foreigners. He even said that the faith of a Roman soldier was greater than He had found in Israel!

So these groups are going against the clear teachings of the Bible, and inserting their own interpretations as justification for anti-Christian actions.

With regards to the OT, has any Muslim source claimed the same for terrorists claiming that they are acting in the name of Islam?

Following the logics of diverse people, claiming Islam to be a violent religion because some use it as a blanket to cover their actions, I hereby claim Christianity to be an equally violent religion.
Link?
Link. (http://allafrica.com/stories/200602210761.html)

How violent a religion is all depends on the people who follow it and how they interpret its teachings.

Heck, most religions are violent in some aspect or another - I read there are even a few violent Buddhists a few days ago on here, which surprised me. I doubt there are more than a few violent religions.

Well, maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

And the Mormons...

EDIT: I mean 'aspects' as in some groups/extremists etc. Not the whole religion. Christianity/Islam etc are all peace-based religions.


Well your 80% right.
The 20% your wrong about is the Jiha. ther all abot killinig.

-Snip-
Christianity was hijacked way before the middle-ages. Lots of literature has been written on the role of Paul in the early Church, and the extent of his influence might surprise you.

Incidentally, the Old Testament Scriptures are pretty warlike themselves. If you want to make the statement that Jesus is a direct personification of the God of the OT (which I wouldn't), then you've got quite a history of violent spread of culture there too.

Oh wow, we attacked Muslims after they torched us. I mean, that must make us so much more violent then those fanatics with bombs strapped to their backs blowing up anything that moves doesn't it?
we'r talking bout being equal to islam religion, plus it says in the bible basically if someone hits your cheek, 'turn the other cheek', and let them hit it. hence turn the other cheek sayingy thing. So really we should have forgiven them, you know 'forgive those who trespass against us'. yeah well there ya go. even though its obviously wrong.

Biblical prophesies are not endorsements, they are prophesies. Jesus and other prophets in the Bible spoke of what was to come, not making suggestions or commands.

But Jesus, as God, made it so... Well, theology would get the best of as if we get into that dispute. Read again what I have said: it is not about it being so, it is about it being interpretable as such. Your answer comes from one side of the barricade. I don't disrgeard, but you know very well who contradicts you and why. Which brings us here:

And yes, there are various groups that claim that the Bible directs them to be white supremacists or to hold slaves or discriminate or whatever, but they don't have any Biblical basis. In other words, they have no clear commands from the Bible or Jesus to do those things. And they have no example of Jesus doing those things. In fact, Jesus went out of his way to speak to non-Jewish women and foreigners. He even said that the faith of a Roman soldier was greater than He had found in Israel!

Fact is that they claim they do. Again, you say they do not, but that's because you want to preserve your own version. I'd tend to favor you, of course, but you are not the one reading the Gospel to all of us. Fact is that, using the same logic people apply to the "always unitary and enemy-like Islam", I could say all of you are Christian.

So these groups are going against the clear teachings of the Bible, and inserting their own interpretations as justification for anti-Christian actions.

You just described the relation between the Wahhabis and Islam. Most of what people consider "textbook Islam" is actually the modern apostasy of the Wahhabis (including Osama's version). There are more things to add about what's going on now, but I've already done it to death on other forums.

With regards to the OT, has any Muslim source claimed the same for terrorists claiming that they are acting in the name of Islam?

If we're talking about terrorist acts, you can bet your ass. There has not been one Muslim community except for extremist Wahhabis to not have clearly condemned Al Quaida. Not only that, but most consider his interpretations to have nothing to do with the Quranic message.
With other organizations such as Hamas, it's more nuanced. But check it out: very soon, Israel itself might come to consider that Hamas can walk into a room and talk (me, I will continue thinking that Hamas is pure shit).

Jesus endorsed what? Quote please.

Just because someone belongs to a religion and commits violence, does not mean that the religion "made him do it." Did each of the above examples claim that Christianity/Jesus made them do it?

Or can we use that for other groups? If a Democrat kills someone, does that mean the Democrat Party is violent? If a footballer kills someone, does that mean--whoops, bad example.
You are right but it can influens it.For example the crusad.

Christianity was hijacked way before the middle-ages. Lots of literature has been written on the role of Paul in the early Church, and the extent of his influence might surprise you.

Incidentally, the Old Testament Scriptures are pretty warlike themselves. If you want to make the statement that Jesus is a direct personification of the God of the OT (which I wouldn't), then you've got quite a history of violent spread of culture there too.

I'm well aware of Pauls influences on Christianity, and many Pagan influences which helped shape what the religion has become today - but this still does not effect Christianity at its core.

Jesus is clearly not a direct personification of the God of the OT. Jesus claims "love thy neighbour". God of the OT claims "kill all the amorites". etc..

xtianity is one of the leading corrupt enterprises of the world today.

All organized religion is corrupted. Individuals can be spiritual if they choose to be, but once you start forming any religious faction, of any type, you have dishonored what religion is supposed to be.

Religion is personal. Once it becomes public, it becomes useless. In many cases, those bubble to the top get rich over it. Religion is a cancer on society when taken out of the individual. It justifies all kinds of adverse behavior and denegrates others.

This world has enough problems with merely cultural differences, much less beheading people for believing in the wrong invisible diety or dieties.

But Jesus, as God, made it so... Well, theology would get the best of as if we get into that dispute. Read again what I have said: it is not about it being so, it is about it being interpretable as such. Your answer comes from one side of the barricade. I don't disrgeard, but you know very well who contradicts you and why. Which brings us here:



Fact is that they claim they do. Again, you say they do not, but that's because you want to preserve your own version. I'd tend to favor you, of course, but you are not the one reading the Gospel to all of us. Fact is that, using the same logic people apply to the "always unitary and enemy-like Islam", I could say all of you are Christian.



You just described the relation between the Wahhabis and Islam. Most of what people consider "textbook Islam" is actually the modern apostasy of the Wahhabis (including Osama's version). There are more things to add about what's going on now, but I've already done it to death on other forums.



If we're talking about terrorist acts, you can bet your ass. There has not been one Muslim community except for extremist Wahhabis to not have clearly condemned Al Quaida. Not only that, but most consider his interpretations to have nothing to do with the Quranic message.
With other organizations such as Hamas, it's more nuanced. But check it out: very soon, Israel itself might come to consider that Hamas can walk into a room and talk (me, I will continue thinking that Hamas is pure shit).

I stand corrected.;)

from CAIR, a collection of Islamic statements about 9/11/01 (http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.html)

The people who believe that Christianity is oh-so-perfect seem to be lisening to too much Michael Savage. As I said before, I don't believe there is a true "religion of peace." For those fundamentalists who think Christianity hasn't had its problems, just take a look at history. What the Christian Nazi extremists did to the millions of innocents in the holocaust is much worse than these so-called beheadings the terrorists do. Let's not forget the Crusades, witch burnings, treatment of Pagans, Natives, and gays over the years. So no, Christianity is not a religion of peace in that sense. Neither is Islam thanks to the extremist terrorists who want to blow up anyone who disagrees with them.

HOWEVER, I believe that all religions can one day become a religion of peace. If believers followed the true teachings by people such as Jesus and Muhammed, they would exist as non-judgemental, forgiving, hateless, and open-minded people in a world where all are equals. That is true Christianity, Islam, and other religions.

Though there is a religion of peace now, and that is Kantoranity. The nations that embrace it can boast how the people are united behind the holiness of Kantor.