NationStates Jolt Archive

Should nations draft people into the military? Consider the options hard, and think of the economic benefits to some.

And don't say spending too much on the military is a waste of money, Switzerland has a 300,000 man military and they don't even use it. At the same time they are one of Europe's most successful economy of all time.

Oh...this kind of drafting. I was hoping you meant draughting.


I think it depends on the nation. For the Swiss, it works well--I don't think a reinstatment of the draft would be good in the US though.

A draft that has conditions and exemptions is a bad idea. On the other hand, compulsory national service might have some merit. Especially if the service weren't limited to military service. Maybe 2 years of non-military and one year of military service?

Why not have a draft, but not make it mandatory (I know some will argue it's not really a draft then). The government may send out notices to all the currently unemployed people of legal age informing them that they have been chosen for the armed forces. Give them a time (like a month) to respond. If no answer is recieved then it is assumed they don't want to join. If they do accept, then they have to stay for a short period of time (year or so) to complete their training, get used to being in the military, etc... After that they have the oppurtunity to sign up for something like a five year contract. If they get called up to go overseas before the first year is up then they would have to finish that tour of duty before being given the oppurtunity to sign the five year contract.

A draft that has conditions and exemptions is a bad idea. On the other hand, compulsory national service might have some merit. Especially if the service weren't limited to military service. Maybe 2 years of non-military and one year of military service?

I think I should of added more options in.

Some other options could be:
*Drafted into Reserves only
*Drafted into support/supply positions(such as cooking, driving, administation)
*Drafted into defensive positions only(they will never go overseas unless they want to)

Or a mixture of all of these

Why not have a draft, but not make it mandatory (I know some will argue it's not really a draft then). The government may send out notices to all the currently unemployed people of legal age informing them that they have been chosen for the armed forces. Give them a time (like a month) to respond. If no answer is recieved then it is assumed they don't want to join. If they do accept, then they have to stay for a short period of time (year or so) to complete their training, get used to being in the military, etc... After that they have the oppurtunity to sign up for something like a five year contract. If they get called up to go overseas before the first year is up then they would have to finish that tour of duty before being given the oppurtunity to sign the five year contract.


So targeted recruitment rather than a draft then?

I don't think the idea of drafting everyone at a certain age is a bad one...
Having a year or two of military experience would teach some discipline, which, let's face it, a lot of people lack these days...
Maybe not as a full time thing, but just to have basic training once or twice a week, instead of physical education classes...
That way when the US decides to invade your country, everyone of every age knows how to use a gun and can cause them all kinds of grief! ;)

I'd be all for mandatory military service from 18-22. Exemption: College. However, if you drop out during those four years, then it's into the military with you!

It would definitely increase military spending, but it would be a good way get some discipline into hardheaded teenagers that think that just because they graduated high school, they know it all.

Not to forget that compulsory military service creates a closer connection between the general populace and the military. It prevents the military from becoming its own independent parallel society, and constantly keeps military culture under review.

I don't think the German system is so bad, although it is becoming more and more of a token thing.

Not to forget that compulsory military service creates a closer connection between the general populace and the military. It prevents the military from becoming its own independent parallel society, and constantly keeps military culture under review.then how do you explain all the instances, where draft armies were used against the population? the only thing that will happen is that citizens become trained in following orders by officers, which are professional soldiers anyway. this makes the army more of a threat to society, not less.

The German system is excellent

But I love the Swiss system much more. And I believe every Swiss citizen has a rifle in their house(some stat like that). Not just a hunting rifle, I mean an actual assault rifle from the military lol

Switzerland is an amazing nation, and I think Canada should follow their example.

then how do you explain all the instances, where draft armies were used against the population? the only thing that will happen is that citizens become trained in following orders by officers, which are professional soldiers anyway. this makes the army more of a threat to society, not less.
There is a difference though between simply forcing a whole bunch of farmboys into a truck and giving them a gun, and a conscription like it is practiced in Germany, or even Israel.
It's probably true that the connection could go both ways and civil society could become more militaristic, but to be honest, I don't think I've seen that happen.

So you would have to give me a very specific case of a draft army doing something to their own people if we are to investigate this any further.

There is a difference though between simply forcing a whole bunch of farmboys into a truck and giving them a gun, and a conscription like it is practiced in Germany, or even Israel.
It's probably true that the connection could go both ways and civil society could become more militaristic, but to be honest, I don't think I've seen that happen.

So you would have to give me a very specific case of a draft army doing something to their own people if we are to investigate this any further.
Didn't a drafted army support the Nazi imprisonment of German citizens during the Hitler years?

I'd be all for mandatory military service from 18-22. Exemption: College.


And where, pray tell, would the money come from for all of this?

So you would have to give me a very specific case of a draft army doing something to their own people if we are to investigate this any further.


Tiannemen Square good enough an example for you?

you are right, Myrmidonisia, stalins army were draftees as well, the chinese peoples liberation army, that liberated thousands of souls on tienamen square from their earthly shells too.


edit: oh, Bodies Without Organs was quicker on the post.

And where, pray tell, would the money come from for all of this?


I have no idea to be honest. I figure with the defense budget the way it is, they build one less cruise missle and they could afford to conscript about 5,000 of them. Money for college? Well, then people are on their own.

I have no idea to be honest. I figure with the defense budget the way it is, they build one less cruise missle and they could afford to conscript about 5,000 of them. Money for college? Well, then people are on their own.

Cost of cruise missile: $1.1 - 1.4 million (source: FAS)

1400000/5000= 280

You are suggesting they support and pay troops for 5 years at a total cost of $280 per head? Works out at $56 dollars a year.

Didn't a drafted army support the Nazi imprisonment of German citizens during the Hitler years?
Until later in the war, I'm not sure how many people were actually drafted. But the Nazi society was insane as it was anyways.

The actual crimes against German citizens though were definitely committed by police or SS units, which would have been volunteer-based with a lot of indoctrination.

Tiannemen Square good enough an example for you?
I suppose so.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pla-training.htm

The PLA has always been something of a seperate unit, that was how Mao had started it. Nonetheless, it did (not sure whether it still does, I think it's pretty much all volunteer today) consist of many conscripts (although only 10% of eligible people were actually chosen), so I guess my theory does not always hold.

It would be important to know I suppose which units in particular were used, and what sort of political indoctrination they would have had.

Fuck no. Never.The people who do choose to serve are despicable. The last thing we need is more people in service to the state. Besides that, it is a violation of people’s right to live their life in the way they see fit.

No draft, ever. Anything else is fascism.

People should not be forced to serve their country in any militant manner. Just because you are born to a country doesn't mean you have to love it. Especially now with all of our political conlicts in America, it would be all to awkward for a liberal to be fighting Dubyah's wars. It would just destroy the nation, the people would revolt. If they're forced to fight, they're gonna fight back.

People should not be forced to serve their country in any militant manner.
That's not the only option we're considering though. We're not only talking draft, we're also talking conscription.

Two methods are these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Germany
http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-6841.html

During a DEFENSIVE war and ONLY if the survival of the nation is at stake

i dont want there to be drafts because i really dont feel like getting shot. :mp5:

No. Never.

The draft is despicable and acts both as means of killing children for the dissagreements of adults (if old people want a war fought, they can get their wrinkled little assess out there and fight it themselves.), but also as a base violation of the personal right to choose what you are willing to fight for or support. Not even a "conscription" system, in which you force people to "serve their nation" is acceptable, because some people don't want to serve their nation. Guess what? That's their choice.

No. Never.

The draft is despicable and acts both as means of killing children for the dissagreements of adults (if old people want a war fought, they can get their wrinkled little assess out there and fight it themselves.), but also as a base violation of the personal right to choose what you are willing to fight for or support. Not even a "conscription" system, in which you force people to "serve their nation" is acceptable, because some people don't want to serve their nation. Guess what? That's their choice.

Ditto that. It might actually get the US executive brach to follow the laws of the nation, and not try to declare war (because the executive branch doesn't have that authority) on things like terrorism, so they can just pursue their own agenda--since they'd have fewer recruits for bullshit assignments.

Maybe if we drafted the unemployed it would worka lot better. It's cut down on paying out welfare benefits in Britain. So we could rebuld our crumbling Military.

Who voted labour last election?

A universal (actually, really universal) draft serves the admriable goal of democratizing the military and explosing elements who would be insular in a society with a volunteer military to a wider range of ideas.

Not to forget that compulsory military service creates a closer connection between the general populace and the military. It prevents the military from becoming its own independent parallel society, and constantly keeps military culture under review.

I don't think the German system is so bad, although it is becoming more and more of a token thing.

this is the one thing that would even make me consider supporting the draft/conscription.... professional armys don't mutiny nearly enough..... and though there is tienaman square, there's also Spain 36, Hungrey 56, and USSR 91.

While a universal draft has allowed the small nation of Switzerland to remain free during the two World Wars, It would be impractical, unconstitutional, and is unnecessary to institute such a program in the US, or any large industrial nation. Consript troops make good cannon fodder, but are not suitable to make up the bulk of any army expected to win. Read Heinlein's Starship Troopers for a discussion of drafting and citizenship, and also because it is a great book.

No. If a war isn't fought by volunteers, then the war doesn't need to be fought at all.

I'm agreeing on the basis that the draft might not be for the military only, but, perhaps for public services such as the fire service, or the NHS.

If you're smart enough and fit enough to learn to kill and be trusted with a gun, you're smart enough and fit enough to run into a burning building, or transport blood donations, medicines, that kind of hospital porter work.