NationStates Jolt Archive

Bikers drown out funeral protesters


By Ryan Lenz
Associated Press
FORT CAMPBELL, Ky. — Wearing leather chaps and vests covered in military patches, a band of motorcyclists rolls from one soldier’s funeral to another in hopes their respectful cheers and revving engines will drown out the insults of protesters.

The motorcycle club members calling themselves Patriot Guard Riders are trying to shield mourners from cruel jeers by adherents of a tiny fundamentalist church who picket military funerals to reflect their belief that U.S. combat deaths are a sign God is punishing the United States for harboring homosexuals. Some protesters’ signs said, “Thank God for IEDs,” the improvised explosive devices, or homemade bombs, that kill many U.S. soldiers.

“The most important thing we can do is let families know that the nation cares,” said Don Woodrick, the biker group’s Kentucky captain. “When a total stranger gets on a motorcycle in the middle of winter and drives 300 miles to hold a flag, that makes a powerful statement.”

Across the nation, Patriot Guard Riders number more than 5,000. They show up at soldiers’ funerals to chant patriotic slogans and wave red, white and blue flags in hopes of overshadowing backers of a Kansas clergyman named the Rev. Fred Phelps.

Phelps and members of his Westboro Baptist Church have caused such a fuss that at least 14 states are considering laws aimed at the funeral protests. During the 1990s, church members were known mostly for picketing funerals of AIDS victims, and they have long been tracked as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Project in Montgomery, Alabama.

The project’s deputy director, Heidi Beirich, said other groups have tried to counter Phelps’ message, but none have been as organized as the Patriot Guard.

“I’m not sure anybody has gone to this length to stand in solidarity,” she said. “It’s nice that these veterans and their supporters are trying to do something. I can’t imagine anything worse, your loved one is killed in Iraq and you’ve got to deal with Fred Phelps.”

At a recent memorial service at Fort Campbell, church protesters and sang vulgar songs condemning homosexuals and soldiers. The Patriot Guard was also there, cheering to support mourning families across the street as community members came in a freezing rain to chant “U-S-A, U-S-A” alongside the bikers.

“This is just the right thing to do. This is something America didn’t do in the ’70s,” said Kurt Mayer, the Patriot Guard’s national spokesman, referring to the era when protests against the Vietnam war were common. “Whether we agree with why we’re over there, these soldiers are dying to protect our freedoms.”

Shirley Phelps-Roper, a daughter of Fred Phelps and an attorney for the Topeka, Kansas-based church, said neither state laws nor the Patriot Guard can silence their message that God killed the soldiers because they fought for a country that embraces homosexuals.

“The scriptures are crystal clear that when God sets out to punish a nation, it is with the sword. An IED is just a broken-up sword,” Phelps-Roper said. “Since that is his weapon of choice, our forum of choice has got to be a dead soldier’s funeral.”

The church, which is not affiliated with a larger denomination, is made up mostly of Phelps’ extended family. A small group of them appeared last month in West Virginia outside a memorial for the 12 men killed in the Sago Mine disaster. They held signs reading “Thank God for Dead Miners” and “Miners in Hell.”

Kentucky, home to sprawling Fort Campbell, was among the first states to attempt to deal with Phelps legislatively. Its House and Senate have each passed bills that would limit people from protesting within 300 feet of a funeral or memorial service. The Senate version would also keep protesters from being within earshot of grieving friends and family members.

The Indiana Senate has passed a bill intended to prohibit protests within 500 feet (150 meters) of funerals. The House is considering the measure.

The bills were written to protect families of soldiers such as Pvt. Jonathan R. Pfender, 22, of Evansville, Indiana, a soldier from Fort Campbell’s 101st Airborne Division who was killed in January by a roadside bomb in Beiji, Iraq.

Westboro church members protested at Pfender’s funeral, screaming profanities at mourners as they passed. Family members were shielded from the insults by the rumble of Patriot Guard motorcycles.

“We were glad that the Patriot Guard Riders were there,” said Jackie Pfender, the soldier’s stepmother. “This group of protesters wanted to put something negative on Jonathan’s funeral. In actuality, it became a positive thing because of the support we had.”

Patriot Guard members only show up at funerals if invited by family. Richard Wilbur, a retired police detective, said his Indiana Patriot Guard group came to the Pfender funeral at the family’s request after protesters announced they planned to attend.

“No one deserves this,” Wilbur said. “If I were burying my loved one and they were out there yelling anything close to what they yell to the families of these soldiers, I know my temperament. I probably would not handle it very well.”

Thanks for posting that. :)

The bikers did a good thing. But I note they could care less when Phelps appears at the funerals of AIDS victims with signs that say "God Haates Fags" and "Fags burn in Hell."

good.

I agree with the article and their purpose, but I differ on this statement:

these soldiers are dying to protect our freedoms.”

Because quite clearly they're dying to protect Iraqi freedoms, not ours.

@BitchKitten
That is because they are a Veteran's group, not an anti-Fred Phelps group. That is like saying "I see you gave to charity, but why do you still have a shirt on?"

Go the bikers! ^__^

Actually, I think I can see an incredibly lucrative financial opportunity on the Phelps speech circuit. People would pay to come and jeer/hurl abuse/tomatoes at this guy. Perhaps I should get in touch with him...

I agree with the article and their purpose, but I differ on this statement:

Snip please.

God bless the Patriot Guard Riders.

Isn't that trying to stop someones freedom of speech? I thought you were against people trying to stop other people from saying or doing offensive things.

Isn't that trying to stop someones freedom of speech? I thought you were against people trying to stop other people from saying or doing offensive things.
They're not stopping him from saying anything. They're just stopping other people from listening.

Isn't that trying to stop someones freedom of speech? I thought you were against people trying to stop other people from saying or doing offensive things.

Why are you against the Patriot Guard Riders freedom of speech? Don't they have every right to express what they feel?

Isn't that trying to stop someones freedom of speech? I thought you were against people trying to stop other people from saying or doing offensive things.

No, it doesn't prevent them from saying anything.

It does make it difficult to *hear* them, but there's no Constitutional guarantee of having anyone listen to you.

Isn't that trying to stop someones freedom of speech? I thought you were against people trying to stop other people from saying or doing offensive things.

The funeral attenders could hear what he has to say by going to his website. They're not denied anything. As for the revving, that's a statement itself.

They're not stopping him from saying anything. They're just stopping other people from listening.


Okay, it's still stifling someones message so that others wont be offended.

“I’m not sure anybody has gone to this length to stand in solidarity,” she said. “It’s nice that these veterans and their supporters are trying to do something. I can’t imagine anything worse, your loved one is killed in Iraq and you’ve got to deal with Fred Phelps.”

...these soldiers are dying to protect our freedoms.”

Patriot Guard members only show up at funerals if invited by family.

“No one deserves this,” Wilbur said. “If I were burying my loved one and they were out there yelling anything close to what they yell to the families of these soldiers, I know my temperament. I probably would not handle it very well.”

They seem pretty cool guys (the bikers).

But no, those soldiers aren't dying to protect your freedoms. If you want to protect your freedoms, I suggest doing so at home, not abroad.

And people should start being less rude and only show up on invitation, or if they're really well-liked.

And I agree, No one deserves what Fred Phelps and his supporters are doing.

Why are you against the Patriot Guard Riders freedom of speech? Don't they have every right to express what they feel?

I never said I was. I was merely asking a question. Aren't these bikers actions an attempt to stifle the protesters message?

Oh please can Phelps start somthing.I would pay good money for just 3mins alone with that guy.These bikers are doing a good thing what ever their reasons or motives..

Now, you need a group of Former Soldiers (preferably former Snipers) armed with Paint ball Guns to make a mess of their signs.

sigh... but we can dream...

I never said I was. I was merely asking a question. Aren't these bikers actions an attempt to stifle the protesters message?

Well, yeah. They're stifling their message with a message of their own; there's nothing that says you can't do that and there's nothing at all wrong with using free expression as a counter to another demonstration...they're using their freedom of expression as much as Phelps is.

Opposing crowds of protesters try to do it all of the time.

I never said I was. I was merely asking a question. Aren't these bikers actions an attempt to stifle the protesters message?
nope, for the protesters can speak as long and as loud as they want. none of the bikers are telling them to shut up. just giving the funeral guests something else to listen to. you know. an alternative to Phelps message.


In other words, providing the people a right to excercise another Freedom. the Freedom of Choice.

respect for the bikers
*takes off hat*

I think that if you applaude the actions of someone who drowns out someone elses message, because you think that message is disgraceful or hurtful or wrong or whatever, that you are not truely for freedom of speech.

Yes I think Phelps and his crew are dispicable human beings with a truely contemptable message, but I think shouting matches (which is basicalaly what this is *who can be louder? - lalalala I can't hear you*) are childish at best. Next we'll see Phelps bring a PA system.

If I were at a funeral I wouldn't want to hear loud obnoxious revving nor would I want to hear protesters, though I do think they both have the right to do what they were doing as long as it was legal. There are noise ordinances though that the bikers may have broken though, aren't there?

Isn't that trying to stop someones freedom of speech? I thought you were against people trying to stop other people from saying or doing offensive things.
Nope. They just drown them out, not stop them from speaking. :D

Lets just ban public protests altogether. People can shout at the top of their lungs from their home. Noone is stopping them from speaking or holding signs. They just wont be allowed where we can see or hear them.

I think that if you applaude the actions of someone who drowns out someone elses message, because you think that message is disgraceful or hurtful or wrong or whatever, that you are not truely for freedom of speech.

Yes I think Phelps and his crew are dispicable human beings with a truely contemptable message, but I think shouting matches (which is basicalaly what this is *who can be louder? - lalalala I can't hear you*) are childish at best. Next we'll see Phelps bring a PA system.

If I were at a funeral I wouldn't want to hear loud obnoxious revving nor would I want to hear protesters, though I do think they both have the right to do what they were doing as long as it was legal. There are noise ordinances though that the bikers may have broken though, aren't there?

Well, the protesters have the right to protest, but come on, protesting at someone's funeral and sayiong that someone will go to hell because he is bad....
You have the right to do so, but do you have to?
If those people would show up at the funeral of someone I loved, I would lose it and probably start attacking them. The right of free speech also needs a certain maturity about what you can and can't say.

Now, I could be wrong, but didn't this happen months ago? I seem to recall that being the case.

Lets just ban public protests altogether. People can shout at the top of their lungs from their home. Noone is stopping them from speaking or holding signs. They just wont be allowed where we can see or hear them.

Ah, but that would be a violation of the Constitutional right to free assembly.

Well, the protesters have the right to protest, but come on, protesting at someone's funeral and sayiong that someone will go to hell because he is bad....
You have the right to do so, but do you have to?
If those people would show up at the funeral of someone I loved, I would lose it and probably start attacking them. The right of free speech also needs a certain maturity about what you can and can't say.

I agree that what they did was assholish. Still I there is a double standard being displayed here personally, but I understand that it is just IMO. Besides... I would hope that the funeral goers would be allowed to hear the protesters and then get pissed and beat the snot out of those protesters. :D

I agree that what they did was assholish. Still I there is a double standard being displayed here personally, but I understand that it is just IMO. Besides... I would hope that the funeral goers would be allowed to hear the protesters and then get pissed and beat the snot out of those protesters. :D

No double standard at all, the bikers are paying respect to the mourning family

Ah, but that would be a violation of the Constitutional right to free assembly.


Of course, thats why we have free spech zones set up for Bush rallies. I guess my point is just being lost on everyone. I admit it's my fault for not being a very good writer or perhaps my point just sucks :p

Why don't we just allow the govt to place giant dark sound-proof bubbles over all public protests... this way they will get to demonstrate publically but we wont have to hear or see them. Better? Someone might get offended... oh noes.

I agree that what they did was assholish. Still I there is a double standard being displayed here personally, but I understand that it is just IMO. Besides... I would hope that the funeral goers would be allowed to hear the protesters and then get pissed and beat the snot out of those protesters. :D
while that would be fun to watch and even better to participate in. Physicallity is against the law.

and it's not a double standard. Basically think of it this way. Phelps group is excercising their right to Free Speech, and so are the bikers. Can't shut one up without good exscuse to shut the other up. now, IMHO, if the bikers played appropriate music blaring from loudspeakers... Hymnals for Christian Soldiers... ect... then that might be a better screen than Reving bikes.

By Ryan Lenz
Associated Press
FORT CAMPBELL, Ky. — Wearing leather chaps and vests covered in military patches, a band of motorcyclists rolls from one soldier’s funeral to another in hopes their respectful cheers and revving engines will drown out the insults of protesters.

The motorcycle club members calling themselves Patriot Guard Riders are trying to shield mourners from cruel jeers by adherents of a tiny fundamentalist church who picket military funerals to reflect their belief that U.S. combat deaths are a sign God is punishing the United States for harboring homosexuals. Some protesters’ signs said, “Thank God for IEDs,” the improvised explosive devices, or homemade bombs, that kill many U.S. soldiers.

“The most important thing we can do is let families know that the nation cares,” said Don Woodrick, the biker group’s Kentucky captain. “When a total stranger gets on a motorcycle in the middle of winter and drives 300 miles to hold a flag, that makes a powerful statement.”

Across the nation, Patriot Guard Riders number more than 5,000. They show up at soldiers’ funerals to chant patriotic slogans and wave red, white and blue flags in hopes of overshadowing backers of a Kansas clergyman named the Rev. Fred Phelps.


I'm not sure if the article is partisan, or just very selective.

Through a family friend, I loosely know one of the PGR's... and the Fred Phelps thing is incidental... they do the same thing to ANY protestor, and, indeed, turn up to funerals where NO protests are held, also.

I recall an interview....

Here, I tracked it down... let's post this, for balance:

"When our military men and women are killed in Iraq or Afghanistan, a rapidly growing group back home hopes to send an important message to their families.

The Patriot Guard Riders is made up of thousands of motorcyclists. Their goal is to honor fallen soldiers at funeral services across the nation.

News on 6 anchor Craig Day talked with their executive director who lives in Green Country.

When a fallen soldier is brought home, chances are members of the Patriot Guard Riders will be there. Their goal is to show respect for fallen heroes and their familes.

Executive Director Jeff Brown says, "You don't even have to ride a motorcycle to the patriot guard riders. The only prerequisite is that you do have an unwavering respect for our men and women in uniform."

Patriot Guard Riders started with a loose group of motorcyclists. It is now an organized and coordinated effort which has grown to more than 2,500 members in all 50 states and Puerto Rico.

"It's just unbelievable the support that we're getting across the country," says Brown.

Brown lives in Broken Arrow. He says the group is not a protest or counter-protest organization. But riders will work to
protect mourning family and friends from interruptions created by protestors if the family asks them to.

"I can't think of any circumstance that is any more personal than burying a loved one," says Brown. "And any type of protest is absolutely incredible to me. That someone could do that."

In a few cases, the motorcycle riders have revved their engines to drown out protestors.

"These young men and women have fought and died for the right of these people to demonstrate and we recognize that and we appreciate that, but it's just not the time and place," Brown answers.

They say it is a time for respect, and a place for a solemn tribute to those who've served and died for their country."

No double standard at all, the bikers are paying respect to the mourning family


No, Euts double standard I meant. Sorry I wasn't clear.

He posted an article where some guy got fired for printing the Muhammed cartoons and poo-poo'd the paper for firing him saying that noone has a right not to be offended basically and that it's bullshit that people should be considerate instead of saying whatever they want. He believes in freedom of speech but only if the US military isn't involved.

Of course, thats why we have free spech zones set up for Bush rallies. I guess my point is just being lost on everyone. I admit it's my fault for not being a very good writer or perhaps my point just sucks :p

Why don't we just allow the govt to place giant dark sound-proof bubbles over all public protests... this way they will get to demonstrate publically but we wont have to hear or see them. Better? Someone might get offended... oh noes.


I know what you're saying, I just don't see counter-protesting as a violation of freedom of speech.

Government imposed sound-proof bubbles is different, since I'm pretty sure the State itself doesn't have a right to free speech; and that would eliminate, not just reduce, the range of the "speech." One is just making it more difficult to hear the message (though not interfering with reading their placards), the other is making it impossible to hear OR see the message.

A fine line perhaps, but solid enough.

You will note in the article that the Patriot Guard only shows up if asked to do so by the mourners. In this case, it is not the Patriot Guard attempting to 'stifle' the message of Phelps and company, as they are simply carrying out the wish of the slain soldier's family to stuff a muffler down Phelps' throat (figuratively of course).

In asking the Patriot Guard to come, the mourners are allowing Phelps and co to keep his right to free speech, but also exercising their own right to hit the metaphorical mute button.

I know what you're saying, I just don't see counter-protesting as a violation of freedom of speech.

Government imposed sound-proof bubbles is different, since I'm pretty sure the State itself doesn't have a right to free speech; and that would eliminate, not just reduce, the range of the "speech." One is just making it more difficult to hear the message (though not interfering with reading their placards), the other is making it impossible to hear OR see the message.

A fine line perhaps, but solid enough.

Good point. Damn it's hard being the devils advocate

You will note in the article that the Patriot Guard only shows up if asked to do so by the mourners. In this case, it is not the Patriot Guard attempting to 'stifle' the message of Phelps and company, as they are simply carrying out the wish of the slain soldier's family to stuff a muffler down Phelps' throat (figuratively of course).

In asking the Patriot Guard to come, the mourners are allowing Phelps and co to keep his right to free speech, but also exercising their own right to hit the metaphorical mute button.


Another good point.

Good point. Damn it's hard being the devils advocateYep... but by doing so, one can see things that are both wrong and right in any endevor. the problem occurs when you abandon Logic just to be contrary.

Yep... but by doing so, one can see things that are both wrong and right in any endevor. the problem occurs when you abandon Logic just to be contrary.


Yes... it's nice to have the people countering my arguments be level-headed in their presentation and not put me or my points down as being stupid instead, as is so often the case here on NS.

Still I was not arguing that counter-protesting was a violation of free-speech laws... I only see problems with allowing one group to drown out another, or rather applauding it as a good thing as showing that you are not truely for free speech. Godular made a good point that the bikers were invited so I can no longer fault them but what if this sets a precedent for future protests?

What if there are other groups out there that take this as an opening to go disrupt all protest rallies that they dont agree with by taking ultra loud noise generators to drown out speeches, or chants or whatnot? It seems like it sets up a slippery slope into things that could cause greater conflict between groups.

Isn't that trying to stop someones freedom of speech?

Nope. Noone is stopping Phelps from preaching in his church. Noone is stopping Phelps from petitioning to get a permit to organise a march through town proclaiming his message without interruption from others. Nobody is forbidding him to say things on national tv. Those things fall under the protection free speech - but forcing your words down other peoples throats does not. People at the funeral can not leave and stop listening to Phelps when they no longer wish to listen-they are after all there to have a funeral.

You are allowed to say whatever you want, but you may not force others to listen. No 15 metre high loudspeakers at midnight proclaiming your message. No tying people up in chairs and preaching them for hours on end. And no disturbing of funerals just because you know the people won't be able to simply walk away.

Ok let's kill this debate.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

And bolded


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So unless the Patriot Guard has congress men in it they are doing nothing illeagal.

So unless the Patriot Guard has congress men in it they are doing nothing illeagal.

You are confusing "freedom of speech" with "freedom to force others to listen".

Ok let's kill this debate.

And bolded

So unless the Patriot Guard has congress men in it they are doing nothing illeagal.


I'm not sure I saw anyone in here argue that the patriot Gaurd was doing anythign illegal.


Edit: ooops, actually I did, it was me asking if they perhaps were violating noise ordinances.

How childish.

Not that I agree with Phelps’s message, but anything to protest this foreign war is okay in my book, even if that means disgracing the family members of the soldiers, who are little more than tools anyway.

I wonder if I spray holy water on Phelps if he would burn. Hmmm...

How childish.

Not that I agree with Phelps’s message, but anything to protest this foreign war is okay in my book, even if that means disgracing the family members of the soldiers, who are little more than tools anyway.

Do you REALLY want the protestors who are actually protesting the war to be assoicated with this nut job? He's not protesting the war, he's just going around insulting our men and women in uniform. Fred Phelps is not a good man, he's not a Christians and I think that when he dies he's going to have a little suprise waiting for him in the after life.

Do you REALLY want the protestors who are actually protesting the war to be assoicated with this nut job? He's not protesting the war, he's just going around insulting our men and women in uniform.
All the protestors should be insulting those who give their lives to the state. They are traitors to the people and they should be made to feel ashamed for it.

There is only one way to respond to these bikers: Hells yeah.

The bikers did a good thing. But I note they could care less when Phelps appears at the funerals of AIDS victims with signs that say "God Haates Fags" and "Fags burn in Hell."
Aren't these bikers some kind of militarist group? AIDS victims, unless soldiers, wouldn't be very relevant to their cause.

All the protestors should be insulting those who give their lives to the state. They are traitors to the people and they should be made to feel ashamed for it.

How are they traitors? You know, you may not like it, but those fine men and women put their LIVES on the line so that you can sit your ass at home and talk shit about them. They are the one protecting our country, protecting our consitutional rights. They are in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries fighting the terrorist there, so that we don't have to fight them here. I don't know about you but I'm ill prepare to take on terrorist. If you think you can do better, then why don't you get off your lazy ass and sign up?

Oh, don't want to?

'nuff said.

How are they traitors? You know, you may not like it, but those fine men and women put their LIVES on the line so that you can sit your ass at home and talk shit about them. They are the one protecting our country, protecting our consitutional rights. They are in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries fighting the terrorist there, so that we don't have to fight them here. I don't know about you but I'm ill prepare to take on terrorist. If you think you can do better, then why don't you get off your lazy ass and sign up?

Oh, don't want to?

'nuff said.
*sigh*
First of all, I never asked anybody to die for me.
Second, our standing army makes it harder to assert our freedoms. Can’t very well have a proper revolution (“which is the fertilizer of liberty” according to Jefferson) if the military has tanks and the people have been legislated down to handguns or less.
Third, the terrorist, or at least the ones that brainwash them, only hate s because we are constantly meddling in their affairs, especially in their dealing with Israel. If we stopped that, we would have nothing to fear. Does not anyone else notice that they only started having a problem with us after our neo-imperialism got into full swing?

How childish.

Not that I agree with Phelps’s message, but anything to protest this foreign war is okay in my book, even if that means disgracing the family members of the soldiers, who are little more than tools anyway.
And YOU call HIM "childish?" You're little better than a frakking terrorist yourself! Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, I ever hear of who disgraces the family members of any of my brothers and sisters is going to have a lot more to worry about than just being fucking stupid. Anyone who advocates this sort of extremism should be tried for treason and shot!

You're a disgrace. Get the hell out of my Country!

*sigh*
First of all, I never asked anybody to die for me.
Second, our standing army makes it harder to assert our freedoms. Can’t very well have a proper revolution (“which is the fertilizer of liberty” according to Jefferson) if the military has tanks and the people have been legislated down to handguns or less.
Third, the terrorist, or at least the ones that brainwash them, only hate s because we are constantly meddling in their affairs, especially in their dealing with Israel. If we stopped that, we would have nothing to fear. Does not anyone else notice that they only started having a problem with us after our neo-imperialism got into full swing?

Its not the point, Undelia.

These are issues to take up with politicians. The uses our armed forces are put to are issues we deal with as voters and as americans.

The men and women in our military are servants of our will and our nation. Even in times of relative peace, they sacrifice years of their lives and sometimes, by accident, their lives to maintain the security and staility of our country. They remain vigilant in the hopes they never have to be called to war, but in full readiness to defend the country and the ideals of the country at any moment. They make an oath to do as their military superiors direct and as they are told are in the best interest of their country.

If you disagree with what our military men and women are told, take it up with the ones doing the telling. But to attack the servants of our nation's will is to mock and disgrace the sacrifice they make on all our behalf.

Frankly, I'm offended by your misdirected criticism.

And YOU call HIM "childish?" You're little better than a frakking terrorist yourself! Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, I ever hear of who disgraces the family members of any of my brothers and sisters is going to have a lot more to worry about than just being fucking stupid. Anyone who advocates this sort of extremism should be tried for treason and shot!
And here I thought these soldiers died for my "freedom". Yet you want to limit my free speech. Good thing you lost your credibility when you joined the Military, otherwise, you would have just lost it.
You're a disgrace. Get the hell out of my Country!
Your country? Hmm. Sorry, this country belongs to nine old men, two exclusive clubs made up of power hungry self-serving members, and a rather dull man consumed by the ideology of violence of those around him.
As for leaving, every place else is just as bad, if not worse.

Good job of those Bikers. Too bad they can't run over the church people.

And here I thought these soldiers died for my "freedom". Yet you want to limit my free speech. Good thing you lost your credibility when you joined the Military, otherwise, you would have just lost it.
What you think of me or my "credibility" is a matter of complete indifference to me.

How childish.

Not that I agree with Phelps’s message, but anything to protest this foreign war is okay in my book, even if that means disgracing the family members of the soldiers, who are little more than tools anyway.

Phelps isn't protesting the war. He's just being an attention whore by getting press for being a jackass.


The motorcycle club members calling themselves Patriot Guard Riders are trying to shield mourners from cruel jeers by adherents of a tiny fundamentalist church who picket military funerals to reflect their belief that U.S. combat deaths are a sign God is punishing the United States for harboring homosexuals. Some protesters’ signs said, “Thank God for IEDs,” the improvised explosive devices, or homemade bombs, that kill many U.S. soldiers.

If he were protesting the war, he could at least be civil and let mourners be. As it is, it looks like he and his supporters just want to pick a fight for publicity.

Good job of those Bikers. Too bad they can't run over the church people.
You ever try to run over someone while riding a bike? Heh!

Not that I agree with Phelps’s message, but anything to protest this foreign war is okay in my book, even if that means disgracing the family members of the soldiers, who are little more than tools anyway.
These people are protesting nothing. They are publicity-hunters, leaping on the back of every opportunity to spread their influence.

Phelps has but one goal for what little remains of his life - he wants to turn the Church into an unstoppable feeding machine such that his legacy will live on long after he has gone and his entire life in devotion to God will not have been in vain. To achieve this aim, he is merely stealing the limelight from the very people he claims to represent.

His words have no meaning - neither protest nor support - nor need they to get the necessary effect. He's just abusing you and those like you by luring you into sympathy for his cause.

What you think of me or my "credibility" is a matter of complete indifference to me.
The fact that you claimed to fight for freedom while wishing to deny me freedom of speech is a great disturbance to me. I wonder if most in the military are as irrational as you.
Recent events point to the affirmative.

I wonder if I spray holy water on Phelps if he would burn. Hmmm...

Regular water would probably do the job...

Hate to invoke Godwin's Law, but I think that Phelps would like nothing more than to be the next Hitler. He's just not very good at it.

Hate to invoke Godwin's Law, but I think that Phelps would like nothing more than to be the next Hitler. He's just not very good at it.

He lacks Hitler's charm and he doesn't know how to get the people he's speaking to motivated. One of the reason Hitler was able to rise to power was that well, he was a good public speaker. He spent HOURS on not only on what he would say, but how his face would look doing it. Phelps lacks all of this.

When Phelps dies, I wonder how many homos will show up to protest his funeral.:D

Whether you agree with someone or not, you don't picket a fucking funeral.

Bikers drown out Fred Phelps! Yayyyy!
I'd much prefer it if they just drowned Phelps. In a bucket of his own bile and urine.

When Phelps dies, I wonder how many homos will show up to protest his funeral.:D
Protest?
Don't you mean celebrate?
Have a huge Mardi gras street parade ending with a pissing and sodomy contest on Phelp's grave.

Protest?
Don't you mean celebrate?
Have a huge Mardi gras street parade ending with a pissing and sodomy contest on Phelp's grave.

They probably would protest his body desecrating hallowed ground by its mere presence.

And YOU call HIM "childish?" You're little better than a frakking terrorist yourself! Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, I ever hear of who disgraces the family members of any of my brothers and sisters is going to have a lot more to worry about than just being fucking stupid. Anyone who advocates this sort of extremism should be tried for treason and shot!

You're a disgrace. Get the hell out of my Country!

Speaking of childish...

Seriously man, drop the dogma level down a little bit. I think he's unfairly judgemental of soldiers, but he sounds downright sane compared to how this sounds. We should shoot people for not agreeing with your view on the military? Be careful, your bias may show. :rolleyes:

Me, I don't like armys and I don't like wars, but I think that Phelps and his cronies are in the wrong for celebrating anyone's death, and while I may have little respect for patriots, I think that these bikers are doing a good deed for the families of those mourning their dead children. The dead, no matter what they did in life, deserve to not have their death celebrated.

The sword is gods weapon of choice, eh?......So if someone killed Phelps with one, and said it was a message from God would they (that group) all just shut up? Or would it be God "testing" the church members?

Kudos to the PGR. If a loved one of mine died in service, they would be welcome at the funeral. Especially if Phelps was in the state. Or in a neighboring state.

respect for the bikers
*takes off hat*
You said it.

And YOU call HIM "childish?" You're little better than a frakking terrorist yourself! Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, I ever hear of who disgraces the family members of any of my brothers and sisters is going to have a lot more to worry about than just being fucking stupid. Anyone who advocates this sort of extremism should be tried for treason and shot!

You're a disgrace. Get the hell out of my Country!

Excuse me? Get the hell out of your country? Tried for treason and shot for disgracing the family members of military soldiers? So, you should be tried for treason and shot for all the times you've called me dweeb and such.