NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?

No. A bit...

??? :confused: ???

Still don't get the story.

Better?

Well, I can't really imagine doing it - but that's simply because I'm not sure if I ever even want to have kids...

I don't know anybody who has done it, so I would likely be surprised to hear about it, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. As long as both parents agree on the terms of the "relationship", why not.

No.
I don't want kids. Ever.
So I wouldn't ever consider doing something remotely like this.

What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life.

Sounds like a scene from The Big Lebowski. :p

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?

Reminds me of The Big Lebowski. Heh good movie. But yes I would enter that arrangement. Only real problem is if she would keep the kid from hunting me down.

Edit: Damnit looks like someone already posted The Big Lebowski similarity.

No. A bit...


Still don't get the story.
Please, go back and edit your post. It's ruining the formatting of the page.

Actually, I would comment on this thread ...

If some doofus hadn't made a post as wide as the frakking Mississippi River! :headbang:

huh, that's weird - formatting is all normal for me. Guess Netscape wins this one, eh? :p

No.
I don't want kids. Ever.
So I wouldn't ever consider doing something remotely like this.Likewise.

What I have considered, however, is donating my eggs. I am in touch with a fertility clinic in this regard and will probably undergo the treatment later in the year. Obviously that provides the anonymity that Sinuhue's friend doesn't want, but I suspect there may be other women in her position who would be happy with the arragement.

From what I understand, she doesn't want the father to never have contact with the child (else, had she the funds, she'd just go to a sperm bank, where the donors have waived all rights to their possible offspring). What she fears is that some day, the father might come a-calling, suddenly wanting joint custody, or full custody. (Yes, we women worry about such things too...in case you haven't noticed, just being a woman doesn't guarantee you get the kids anymore) She would welcome contact, as long as that contact didn't come with strings attached like, "let me move in or I'll try to take the kid".

I would consider it.

I've always wondered how I would be as a Father. I've babysat my neices and nephews, and found I really don't have the temperment for a family. so my desire to raise children has decreased to almost nil.

but if someone I know wants children but no father... and is willing to absolve me from any and all responsibility...


I'd seriously think about it.

I don't mind being the Jolly Uncle.... but Father... nah.

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?
no.

I couldn't accept it. Simple reason; If I do have kids, I want to play a large part in raising them myself.

Likewise.

What I have considered, however, is donating my eggs. I am in touch with a fertility clinic in this regard and will probably undergo the treatment later in the year. Obviously that provides the anonymity that Sinuhue's friend doesn't want, but I suspect there may be other women in her position who would be happy with the arragement.

No, I don't think I would consider that, either.

I don't support artificial insemination and test tube babies, as long as there are virtually millions of unwanted children and babies on the planet. You want a kid, you can't get one yourself, go out and adopt. Everything else would be selfish beyond belief and is not worth supporting in any way.

No. A bit...

??? :confused: ???

Still don't get the story.

Better?
YES! Thank you!

Okay, to break it down.

My friend is in her 30s. She wants a kid, but doesn't want to get married, or settle down with someone. So, she wants a guy to get her pregnant, and then go away, so she can raise the kid by herself. Clearer?

If the person was a friend? Sure why not?

YES! Thank you!

Okay, to break it down.

My friend is in her 30s. She wants a kid, but doesn't want to get married, or settle down with someone. So, she wants a guy to get her pregnant, and then go away, so she can raise the kid by herself. Clearer?

I take it she knows someone she can trust to do this favor for her? Finding a stranger seems risky.

YES! Thank you!

Okay, to break it down.

My friend is in her 30s. She wants a kid, but doesn't want to get married, or settle down with someone. So, she wants a guy to get her pregnant, and then go away, so she can raise the kid by herself. Clearer?
<.<

>.>



So where does she live?

I'd do it, but I would like to be more available to the child should the child itself want me to be more available. So, the contract would have to have a clause that would honour the future wishes of the child should it want more contact. This of course means that the child would know I am its father.

No, I don't think I would consider that, either.

I don't support artificial insemination and test tube babies, as long as there are virtually millions of unwanted children and babies on the planet. You want a kid, you can't get one yourself, go out and adopt. Everything else would be selfish beyond belief and is not worth supporting in any way.
Sperm bank: $10,000
Adoption: $10,000
Getting knocked up by a willing friend/stranger: free.

Plus, many people really want a biological connection with the child that they raise.

I take it she knows someone she can trust to do this favor for her? Finding a stranger seems risky.
Well, for one, she wouldn't accept a complete stranger. She's a doctor, and wants to make sure she's getting 'good genes' so she's screening for certain diseases and defects. She's not about to accept just anyone as a father. And no, she hasn't found a suitable candidate yet. It's actually more complicated that I thought, when she first talked about doing this!

Sperm bank: $10,000
Adoption: $10,000
Getting knocked up by a willing friend/stranger: free.

Plus, many people really want a biological connection with the child that they raise.

Seeing how many natural parents treat their offspring, I somehow fail to understand the concept.

I don't support artificial insemination and test tube babies, as long as there are virtually millions of unwanted children and babies on the planet. You want a kid, you can't get one yourself, go out and adopt. Everything else would be selfish beyond belief and is not worth supporting in any way.On a personal level, I agree. However, if that's how they choose to do it, that's up to them; I have no right to decide where they should or should not get their children from. Since my eggs serve no useful purpose whatsoever to me, I am not concerned about getting rid of them and letting people use them for a thing they were going to do anyway.

I'd do it, but I would like to be more available to the child should the child itself want me to be more available. So, the contract would have to have a clause that would honour the future wishes of the child should it want more contact. This of course means that the child would know I am its father.
This is amusing, because over a jug or two of beer, I told her that I 'knew' this wonderful gay man who lives in Sweden that would be PERFECT! We discussed all sorts of possibilities, including the father wanting more contact, and she's fine with that. Her biggest fear is having the father one day take the child. I think a gay man would be perfect...because he wouldn't be after her, using the child as leverage. She was even willing to overlook the fact that you're pasty white (she has a penchant for dark meat).:eek:

On a personal level, I agree. However, if that's how they choose to do it, that's up to them; I have no right to decide where they should or should not get their children from. Since my eggs serve no useful purpose whatsoever to me, I am not concerned about getting rid of them and letting people use them for a thing they were going to do anyway.

I'm not telling them what to do, far from it. I just wouldn't support it... anyway, I feel it's best for the world on the whole if my genes die with me ;)

It is a terrible proposition. Purposely placing a child into a setting in which the child has no involved father is incredibly selfish.

She should adopt once she forms a stable relationship with a good guy.

Seeing how many natural parents treat their offspring, I somehow fail to understand the concept.
A lot of those people had an 'oops' moment, and didn't actually long for children...

It is a terrible proposition. Purposely placing a child into a setting in which the child has no involved father is incredibly selfish.

She should adopt.
She would adopt as a single mother, purposely placing a child into a setting in which the child has no involved father.

So how is that, in your opinion, a better option?

This is amusing, because over a jug or two of beer, I told her that I 'knew' this wonderful gay man who lives in Sweden that would be PERFECT! We discussed all sorts of possibilities, including the father wanting more contact, and she's fine with that. Her biggest fear is having the father one day take the child. I think a gay man would be perfect...because he wouldn't be after her, using the child as leverage. She was even willing to overlook the fact that you're pasty white (she has a penchant for dark meat).:eek:

I'm not pasty white. I tan nicely, thank you very much, even if it does come in a can (rays today, raisins tomorrow). And how could the man "take" the child? Mothers tend to have custody laws on their sides.

I feel it's best for the world on the whole if my genes die with me ;)I should have given that bit more thought; anyone having a successful pregnancy using my eggs is in for a bumpy ride if and when the kid is born :p

It is a terrible proposition. Purposely placing a child into a setting in which the child has no involved father is incredibly selfish.

She should adopt.

Adopting is not an easy or guranteed process. My neighbor is a divorsed woman. It took her 3 years to get one and that was because she had to hire a person to get one. She went to Central america to find her girl.....

I'm not pasty white. I tan nicely, thank you very much, even if it does come in a can (rays today, raisins tomorrow). And how could the man "take" the child? Mothers tend to have custody laws on their sides.
Unfortunatly, there are exceptions. and even if she did win custody... the legal battle would most likely be long, drawn out, more damaging to the child and may even exceed the cost of the sperm bank.

She would adopt as a single mother, purposely placing a child into a setting in which the child has no involved father.

So how is that, in your opinion, a better option?

I corrected my previous post. I meant adoption in a stable relationship.

I'm not pasty white. I tan nicely, thank you very much, even if it does come in a can (rays today, raisins tomorrow). And how could the man "take" the child? Mothers tend to have custody laws on their sides.
Only because in the majority of cases (according to a number of family lawyers who've talked about the subject) the men don't fight for custody. My friend worries that her previous recreational drug use would be dragged into it, or perhaps her low income (she's a doctor of forensic anthropology, who is still studying/teaching and makes kaput) would be used against her. Or perhaps the fact that she loves to have brief romances, and is against settling down...all of this could possibly be used to declare her 'less fit' than the father to raise the child...her biggest fear.

I corrected my previous post. I meant adoption in a stable relationship.
Which is clearly the polar opposite of what she wants. Don't worry, she's well aware of what society thinks she 'should' do. She doesn't care. Nor would I.

It'd depend on a whole host of issues: how safe would I be from having possible future legal wrangles, the child deciding to look me up years later and demand things from me, demands from the state for child payments and so on.




And most importantly, how hot your friend is.

It'd depend on a whole host of issues: how safe would I be from having possible future legal wrangles, the child deciding to look me up years later and demand things from me, demands from the state for child payments and so on. This is why legal contracts are lovely things.

And most importantly, how hot your friend is.*threatens you with a frozen trout*

Only because in the majority of cases (according to a number of family lawyers who've talked about the subject) the men don't fight for custody. My friend worries that her previous recreational drug use would be dragged into it, or perhaps her low income (she's a doctor of forensic anthropology, who is still studying/teaching and makes kaput) would be used against her. Or perhaps the fact that she loves to have brief romances, and is against settling down...all of this could possibly be used to declare her 'less fit' than the father to raise the child...her biggest fear.

I doubt he'd be able to get full custody - at most, shared, and even then restricted to weekends and such. Still, all the more reason to choose a foreigner and thus have two systems of law to deal with, making it harder for him to get custody.

I'd not want custody myself like that, unless, you know, she develops some drug habit and really does become unfit to be a parent. Hmm, I guess I'd need to get to know her before I did anything like this - while I may throw my semen away in paper towels/toilets/mouths/asses/the street, I'd need to know the person I impregnate isn't some wacko.

I corrected my previous post. I meant adoption in a stable relationship.

A "stable" relationship? That's no guide either. I have seen a few couples that have a "stable" relationship that should never have children.

What about a person who has a spouse die? Are they no longer fit?

A kind loving parent is all a child needs.

Which is clearly the polar opposite of what she wants. Don't worry, she's well aware of what society thinks she 'should' do. She doesn't care. Nor would I.

Children of single parents are more likely to be involved in crime, suffer depression, and become less likely to form good relationships themselves. Your friend is PURPOSELY placing someone in these conditions. You don't care?

Children of single parents are more likely to be involved in crime, suffer depression, and become less likely to form good relationships themselves. Your friend is PURPOSELY placing someone in these conditions. You don't care?

I'm a child of a married couple, and I fit every single of these categories.
Statistics mean f*** all when it comes to parenting.

Children of single parents are more likely to be involved in crime, suffer depression, and become less likely to form good relationships themselves. Your friend is PURPOSELY placing someone in these conditions. You don't care?

Yes, we should force all single mothers to abort and ban them from reproducing. :rolleyes:

Children of single parents are more likely to be involved in crime, suffer depression, and become less likely to form good relationships themselves. Your friend is PURPOSELY placing someone in these conditions. You don't care?
Err... 100% of all Criminals were born from a woman...

thus Test tube babies are the way to go! :D

I'd totally do it.
What's wrong with you lot?

As long as she pays for my flight and doesn't have a face like a smashed crab, i'm there.

But then she'd have a real shallow bastard child.

I doubt he'd be able to get full custody - at most, shared, and even then restricted to weekends and such. Still, all the more reason to choose a foreigner and thus have two systems of law to deal with, making it harder for him to get custody.

I'd not want custody myself like that, unless, you know, she develops some drug habit and really does become unfit to be a parent. Hmm, I guess I'd need to get to know her before I did anything like this - while I may throw my semen away in paper towels/toilets/mouths/asses/the street, I'd need to know the person I impregnate isn't some wacko.
She's willing to be interviewed and checked up on as well. And she loved the info I was able to pass on about you:)

A "stable" relationship? That's no guide either. I have seen a few couples that have a "stable" relationship that should never have children.

There are dysfunctional relationships, I concur. But the vast majority of people who are in committed unions or marriages are good people.


What about a person who has a spouse die? Are they no longer fit?

Yes. In fact, that was the original purpose of, at least in the states, the welfare system. We can't control destiny, and in cases of that matter, a parent dying, the survivor should be provided for given the remaining parents holds up their end and continues raising the child to the best of their ability.

A kind loving parent is all a child needs.

If that were all that mattered, more children would be turning out better than they are. There are economic and social issues that greatly burden a single parent.

Children of single parents are more likely to be involved in crime, suffer depression, and become less likely to form good relationships themselves. Your friend is PURPOSELY placing someone in these conditions. You don't care?My father was a wife-beating, philandering rapist. I presume that my mother's decision to divorce him - largely for my benefit - the wrong thing to do, despite the fact I got all the love and support from her anyone could ever hope for. As it happens, although I have suffered from depression (due mainly to another, independent factor, actually), I have some of the most right-wing views against crime you could find and am extremely happy in a long-term relationship. Yes, this is one tiny piece of anecdotal evidence. Even though you didn't post your sources, I would argue that even well sourced statistics are not always reliable.

It's not as simple as saying a child needs two parents. I'm hardly an expert on parenting, but I'd say a child needs love and support above anything else. It can get that from one parent as much as, if not in some cases more than, two parents.

I'm a child of a married couple, and I fit every single of these categories.
Statistics mean f*** all when it comes to parenting.
So you're a criminal! :eek: Seriously now, the best environement for a child remains the traditional family. If statistics don't matter, then why is your friend trying to get good genes in the potential father? After all, an inteligent man does not necessary have intelligent children. It's just statistically that there seems to be a corelation.

Children of single parents are more likely to be involved in crime, suffer depression, and become less likely to form good relationships themselves. Your friend is PURPOSELY placing someone in these conditions. You don't care?
Listen hon, I grew up in a community where most couples with kids = serious domestic abuse. There were few single parents because if the dad ran off, the mom generally left the kids with her mom (which may sound bad to you, but it's part of our tradition...the grandparents raise the kids). Those that DID stick around to raise their kids made a very concerted effort to do so in a healthy environment, accessing community support and working hard to make a home for those kids. Assuming for some reason that a couple=a healthy home life is so far from my experience as to be laughable.

My friend is a very intelligent woman. She has been through traumas that would melt the psyche of most and come out balanced, and very self-aware. She wants a child, not as leverage in order to keep a man (another main reason for pregnancy on the Reserve) but because she is ready to raise a child. Unstable situation? You clearly don't know the meaning of the term.

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?

I owe it to society to ensure that I never reproduce under any circumstances. The replication of these genes simply cannot be allowed to continue. And thankfully, the family line ends with me!

There are dysfunctional relationships, I concur. But the vast majority of people who are in committed unions or marriages are good people.



Yes. In fact, that was the original purpose of, at least in the states, the welfare system. We can't control destiny, and in cases of that matter, a parent dying, the survivor should be provided for given the remaining parents holds up their end and continues raising the child to the best of their ability.



If that were all that mattered, more children would be turning out better than they are. There are economic and social issues that greatly burden a single parent.


*rubs eyes

What planet are you from, if I may ask?
Any form of dysfunctional relationship is far, far worse than single parenting. Trust me, my nightmare of a childhood in a well-off, respectable, christian, traditional family taught me well on that.
And while it is true that the financial situation of single parent families can be tougher than that of married parents, it's not necessarily a factor that will affect the childs happiness.

So you're a criminal! :eek: Seriously now, the best environement for a child remains the traditional family. If statistics don't matter, then why is your friend trying to get good genes in the potential father? That would be my friend, not Cabra West's. And she's not looking for 'good genes' in the sense of getting someone model-handsome or with a genius IQ, she's trying to weed out the 'bad genes'. Serious hereditary diseases and such.

So you're a criminal! :eek: Seriously now, the best environement for a child remains the traditional family. If statistics don't matter, then why is your friend trying to get good genes in the potential father? After all, an inteligent man does not necessary have intelligent children. It's just statistically that there seems to be a corelation.

Sin said her friend was screening for hereditatry conditions, not intelligence.
And, yes, as a matter of fact, I used to engage in criminal activities. Despite the fact that my parents were married, I was planned (not an accident), they were "good Christians", financially really well-off and a respected family.

Any form of dysfunctional relationship is far, far worse than single parenting.
Disfunctional families are worse than single parenting. However, single parenting is worse than a traditional, functional family.

My father was a wife-beating, philandering rapist. I presume that my mother's decision to divorce him - largely for my benefit - the wrong thing to do, despite the fact I got all the love and support from her anyone could ever hope for. As it happens, although I have suffered from depression (due to another factor, actually), I have some of the most right-wing views against crime you could find and am extremely happy in a long-term relationship.

Yeah, there is no absolute insurance against some people who are just not good parents from making babies, but such a story runs contrary to the norm. Most couples don't beat each other or practice domestic abuse. In this case, your mother did the right thing to protect your and her own well-being. But growing up, if you had the chance, would you subsitute the father you have with an alternate-world one that was a good guy?


It's not as simple as saying a child needs two parents. I'm hardly an expert on parenting, but I'd say a child needs love and support above anything else. It can get that from one parent as much as, if not in some cases more than, two parents.

But you have to cite exceptions to even show that. In a majority of cases, it will be the point that two parents are more qualified than one, with all things being equal. I can conceive of a super-parent who could be capable of such things, but such a person is the exception, not the norm.

Going back to there original question as I believe it to be "as a male would I take part in this?" the answer is simply no. The reasons are many and here are a couple of the big ones. Money: I do not know about anywhere else but here you ( the male ) can be forced to pay child support even if both parties have signed a contract saying that you will not have to. In some cases the "father" has been "required by law" to continue paying child support AFTER DNA testing as PROVED the child was NOT HIS. Two I truly can not imagine having a child and not being a large part of it's life. ( To be honest I have no kids. ). To me it just seems like a no win situation.

There are a great number of "If's" here. IF I could provide the sperm to her, without any requirement of involvement later. And IF I was in no way legally/financially responsible. I would. And IF the child could lay no financial/legal claims on me. I would. And If the child someday came to me later, well, I could deal with that on a personal level... Basically get the legals off of me, I could deal with the ethics of it...then Sure I would

Disfunctional families are worse than single parenting. However, single parenting is worse than a traditional, functional family.

I can honestly say that I never, in my entire life, saw a traditional family that was functional.
My own family aside, I've seen abuse, games of control and power of the parents over the kids, physical violence and serious negligence...

If it's a good relationship between two adults, the situation for the kids is better. But chances are that the relationship is anything but good, especially when "traditional"

Disfunctional families are worse than single parenting. However, single parenting is worse than a traditional, functional family.

Exactly. And there are more far more functional families than disfunctional. And one must not discount the notion that some single parents are disfunctional.

Well that's silly.

Why bring a child into the world unless you have something to be optimistic about?

Yeah, there is no absolute insurance against some people who are just not good parents from making babies, but such a story runs contrary to the norm. Most couples don't beat each other or practice domestic abuse. In this case, your mother did the right thing to protect your and her own well-being. But growing up, if you had the chance, would you subsitute the father you have with an alternate-world one that was a good guy?


Coming from a very similar situation (although without a mother strong enough to make the right decision at the right time, preferring to believe that "it's always better for the kids to grow up with a father than without one"), I can clearly answer No.
I wouldn't ever trust the guy to be a "good guy". I don't think that exists.
If I could change one thing about my childhood, I'd completely remove anything even resembling a father figure.

Exactly. And there are more far more functional families than disfunctional. And one must not discount the notion that some single parents are disfunctional.

With alomst 50% of all marriages ending in divorce, plus the number of disfunctional families who decide to stay together for whatever reason?
I seriously doubt it.

Yeah, there is no absolute insurance against some people who are just not good parents from making babies, but such a story runs contrary to the norm. Most couples don't beat each other or practice domestic abuse. But about half of all couples get divorced. And not for no reason. You keep going on about 'most couples' and so on, but you've yet to provide any stats to back you up. For one, the easily accessible divorce stats (http://www.divorcerate.org/) show that the 50% rate of divorce is pretty accurate. So 'most couples' mean 'about the half that stay married'. Then, you need to look at that 50%, and figure out how many are good parents. I'll wait for your sources on that one.

If it's a good relationship between two adults, the situation for the kids is better. But chances are that the relationship is anything but good, especially when "traditional"

Depends what you mean by traditional. I use the term to describe a family in which the father and mother spend time with their children, are involved in their childrens lives and encourage positive interaction with society, as well as assertively defending the interests of the children. I think the expectation for parents do that has been lowered over the past few decades, hence, a lack of tradition.

I think you associate the term with fundamentalist Christian upbringing, although I could be wrong.

I gather that you father was not a "good man"?

Exactly. And there are more far more functional families than disfunctional. And one must not discount the notion that some single parents are disfunctional.
Whatever. Point being, there are good and bad families made up of various combinations. My friend would make an excellent mother, which is something you can not disprove. Moving on.

I can honestly say that I never, in my entire life, saw a traditional family that was functional.
My own family aside, I've seen abuse, games of control and power of the parents over the kids, physical violence and serious negligence...

If it's a good relationship between two adults, the situation for the kids is better. But chances are that the relationship is anything but good, especially when "traditional"
If you haven't seen a functional family, all I can say is that I'm sorry for you. I come from such a family. Also, by "traditional" I was simply talking about a family with a mother and a father, not that the mother should stay home and do all the cooking, cleaning etc.

P.S. Does the forum move so crappy for you too?

I'm not sure. You have to look at it from three points of view. The mother's, the father's and the child's.
The mother wants a man who doesn't feel the need to intrude on the child's upbringing. The father may want to come and visit the child form time to time to ensure how well it is doing, or how it is growing up. The child may feel slightly cheated that they didn't have a father growing up.
Personally I would never consider this, but only as I feel I want to get married and started a family :) But I don't see why so many men would be so opposed to the idea.. :confused:

Depends what you mean by traditional. I use the term to describe a family in which the father and mother spend time with their children, are involved in their childrens lives and encourage positive interaction with society, as well as assertively defending the interests of the children. I think the expectation for parents do that has been lowered over the past few decades, hence, a lack of tradition.
Christian upbringing, although I could be wrong.

Very little Christian about that, just tradition. You marry, and then you have one kid after the other. Good old tradition in Germany and Austria, and from what I gather not much different in Ireland.

Spending time with their children? Encourage positive interaction? Defending the interests of the children? I think you confuse "traditional" with "nostalgic".

Traditional is beating the kid into shape, nostalgic is sitting around the fireplace sharing wisdoms...

The problem is that no one has bothered to think about the child here. The child may (and probably will want) a relationship with the father. The father is not just a mere commodity – as a means to an end. Absolving any parental duties of the father is not only not fair on the parts but it is relegating the father to something below a mere babysitter.

Back to the issue of the child – the issue raised here is seen to be too simplistic for reality. Oh yea sure the lady may want to have a child and raise it (and I am sure she would be a good mother), but that does not mean that she can fulfil all the roles of a daddy. The child has rights to want to see the dad and it would be morally wrong to try and disrupt that. What would happen if the child turns around and hates for mother for not allowing him/her to have a relationship with the father just because she chose so and not because he was a bad man.

Children deserve much better than this. Yes if the father was not the best of person then yea take the child away from him, but the child deserves to be brought up know both people who gave it life if at all possible.

Well I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't marry someone just to have kids either though. I understand why she's doing it I just wouldn't do it. It could become much too complicated. I'd rather adopt.:)

But about half of all couples get divorced. And not for no reason. You keep going on about 'most couples' and so on, but you've yet to provide any stats to back you up. For one, the easily accessible divorce stats (http://www.divorcerate.org/) show that the 50% rate of divorce is pretty accurate. So 'most couples' mean 'about the half that stay married'. Then, you need to look at that 50%, and figure out how many are good parents. I'll wait for your sources on that one.
Actually, as far as I know, the situation is different. About half of all marriages end in divorce, that's true, but that's because some people marry and divorce several times. Most of the people who get married stay together.

Actually, as far as I know, the situation is different. About half of all marriages end in divorce, that's true, but that's because some people marry and divorce several times. Most of the people who get married stay together.

Really? Let's see... My parents - no. Any of their brothers and sisters - no. My friends - 1 still married, 2 divorced (majority unmarried, though) My friends parents - about half of them divorced, and half of them as disfunctional as they can get.

Care to provide some stats to back up that claim of yours? 50% divorce rate says that no, most people don't stay together.

Look at all the 'traditional family' moralists coming out of the woodwork.

To you people: your opinions on the matter are not going to be taken into consideration. Clearly, my friend, and any woman who wants to raise a child on her own...wait for it...WANTS TO RAISE THE CHILD ON HER OWN. You might think that's bad. Good for you. She's made a decision to have a child, and raise it on her own (not precluding the possibility that a man may enter the picture in the future). Work from that premise, because you aren't about to change her mind...or the mind of any other woman who has made this decision.

Really? Let's see... My parents - no. Any of their brothers and sisters - no. My friends - 1 still married, 2 divorced (majority unmarried, though) My friends parents - about half of them divorced, and half of them as disfunctional as they can get.

Care to provide some stats to back up that claim of yours? 50% divorce rate says that no, most people don't stay together.
What stats? What you provided are not stats, it's just your personal experience. I can also tell you that the great majority of the people I know are still married and in a functional family, but that wouldn't mean that the great majority of marriages are stable and functional. I think the environement you're from matters a lot from this point of view and influences significantly your future destiny (including your marriage). The environement I (and most of my friends) are from contains mainly functional marriages. The one you're from clearly does not. This doesn't mean, however, that either of our environements represent the norm.

This has nothing to do with 'traditional family' moralists coming out of the woodwork. The point is yes its valid for a woman to want to raise the child by herself, but that does not mean that its right and fair on the child. You are wilfully taking away the child’s moral and legal rights on having a relationship with the father. It is also extremely selfish on the mother wanting to bring this child up by herself. Is it because the mother had a poor up-bringing and wanted to ‘make things right’ by bringing up this child on her own ?

Non the less, regardless of divorce rarest or how many people stay or don’t stay together; the action in-itself is not allowing the child to grow up with the possibility of having the love and protection and care of what the father can provide (and that is not taking anything away form the mother)

Look at all the 'traditional family' moralists coming out of the woodwork.

To you people: your opinions on the matter are not going to be taken into consideration. Clearly, my friend, and any woman who wants to raise a child on her own...wait for it...WANTS TO RAISE THE CHILD ON HER OWN. You might think that's bad. Good for you. She's made a decision to have a child, and raise it on her own (not precluding the possibility that a man may enter the picture in the future). Work from that premise, because you aren't about to change her mind...or the mind of any other woman who has made this decision.

And you, Madame. You have neglected to tell us why other than simply "she wants one."

And you, Madame. You have neglected to tell us why other than simply "she wants one."

Ditto

Iwould do it in a heart beat. In fact, I want that to happen to me! All I would want would be to see the child every once in a while, and maybe go to special events in its life, like graduation. It would be great, having a kid with out having a kid! Tell your friend to call me!!:fluffle:

Iwould do it in a heart beat. In fact, I want that to happen to me! All I would want would be to see the child every once in a while, and maybe go to special events in its life, like graduation. It would be great, having a kid with out having a kid! Tell your friend to call me!!:fluffle:


So you want to be a part-time dad or even just a so called 'babysitter' because you don’t want to take the responsibility in taking care of your child. You do not want the ‘hassle’ of the sleepless night and troubles, and the joy and watching your child grow up. That is sadly a very cowardly thing to do. So you do want a bit – just the ‘nice’ things to be part of and say that its your child but you do not want to provide for the child both emotionally, physically and financially. The child deservers more than just an excuse of a person to be a father for them.

Why on earth do you want to be a father if you cant be bothered ? this is not like owning a car ??? Its about bringing up a life – a person.

I've noticed people saying that single parents aren't as good as a traditional family. I'm not saying they're wrong but they're not 100% correct. There was a woman named Sue who was a very good friend of my mothers, she had two young sons that she took care of excellently. They didn't want anything to do with their father because they knew even as young as they were he was a jerk and no good. She died a few years back leaving a good deal of money to her sons, the bastard father keeps trying to get the money and the poor kids have to live with the asshole. She was an excellent mother who showed that a single parent can be plenty for children. They never needed their father and I am sure that had she not died they would still be with her and happy. Single parents can do just fine. I am NOT saying single parents are better or anything like that there are those that should not be parents but there are couples who shouldn't be parents either. Okay I've jabbered have fun with the talk people.

But about half of all couples get divorced. And not for no reason. You keep going on about 'most couples' and so on, but you've yet to provide any stats to back you up. For one, the easily accessible divorce stats show that the 50% rate of divorce is pretty accurate. So 'most couples' mean 'about the half that stay married'. Then, you need to look at that 50%, and figure out how many are good parents. I'll wait for your sources on that one.

Wouldn't it be logical to say that in an open society in which divorce is very easy, almost with no obstacbles, to say that most of those people who are still married stay so because they have successfully formed a good relationships? If I recall, you have been married for quite some time, and I'm sure there's been an argument or two. But I trust that you and your partner have good communication and understanding that are a part of a good relationship and that have aided you over the years.

As far as my opinion on the divorce rates...If it is true that, all things being equal, single-parent children are less likely to form healthy relationships leading to marriage, then it would be the case that as more of these people have children and intermarry or attempt to form ultimately unstable relationships with people who are well-prepared for relationships, then it would make sense that the divorce rate will continuously rise until the success of a marriage becomes an approximate coin-toss. Either someone stays together or they don't.

For example, compare black and asian communities in the United States. Black Americans face somewhere around 48% marriage rates in the country, very low, and many of the children are born into single parent families. Asian Americans, IIRC are somewhere in the 70s. Most families in Asian communities are headed by two parents. Most children are not born to single parents, and the cycle continues.

Ultimately, most people are good people, so I think a child will usually benefit from two parents and not just one.

To you people: your opinions on the matter are not going to be taken into consideration. Clearly, my friend, and any woman who wants to raise a child on her own...wait for it...WANTS TO RAISE THE CHILD ON HER OWN. You might think that's bad. Good for you. She's made a decision to have a child, and raise it on her own (not precluding the possibility that a man may enter the picture in the future). Work from that premise, because you aren't about to change her mind...or the mind of any other woman who has made this decision.

Why would you post a thread asking us if we would do it if you didn't want our opinion? I gave my opinion with reasoning behind it, as have others. We're not being jerks. I want kids happy and healthy. I don't think your friend is doing the right thing. At all. If what I have said through the thread IS true, and the kid ends up having problems later in life because of the mother's decisions...it is a horrible thing to conceive of.

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?

she should find a flighty and fickle gay man like what happened in 'queer as folk' on the telly (british version, dunno if the american version had that story line).

i think i (bi man) would probably be okay with that sort of arrangement - one day i will probably want kids but settling down in one place forever is not for me.

And you, Madame. You have neglected to tell us why other than simply "she wants one."
That's really none of your business. Her motivations in this are hers.

Why would you post a thread asking us if we would do it if you didn't want our opinion? I gave my opinion with reasoning behind it, as have others. We're not being jerks. I want kids happy and healthy. I don't think your friend is doing the right thing. At all. If what I have said through the thread IS true, and the kid ends up having problems later in life because of the mother's decisions...it is a horrible thing to conceive of.
Yes, your opinion: "no, I wouldn't do this because" is fine. Turning this into a thread about the merits of single parents versus 'traditional families' is just hijacking. You can delve into that subject, in depth, elsewhere.

I've noticed people saying that single parents aren't as good as a traditional family. I'm not saying they're wrong but they're not 100% correct. There was a woman named Sue who was a very good friend of my mothers, she had two young sons that she took care of excellently. They didn't want anything to do with their father because they knew even as young as they were he was a jerk and no good. She died a few years back leaving a good deal of money to her sons, the bastard father keeps trying to get the money and the poor kids have to live with the asshole. She was an excellent mother who showed that a single parent can be plenty for children. They never needed their father and I am sure that had she not died they would still be with her and happy. Single parents can do just fine. I am NOT saying single parents are better or anything like that there are those that should not be parents but there are couples who shouldn't be parents either. Okay I've jabbered have fun with the talk people.

good point well put :)

*snip*
Take your moralising elsewhere. The question was 'would you'...not 'come in and jump down the throats of everyone who doesn't share my family values'.

That's really none of your business. Her motivations in this are hers.


It seem (and I may be wrong), but this person you are talking about is actaully you.

I wouldn't. It's my child as well as hers, so I wouldn't let her have all the fun

It seem (and I may be wrong), but this person you are talking about is actaully you.
Sinuhue already has 2 children :rolleyes:

Read the OP

I have a friend who is getting on in years, .....


"oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?


I wouldnt,myself. I'm more traditional and in my opinion, its selfish of her to bring kids into the world without the benefit of having a father.
Of course- some fathers are terrible and there are those who would have been better off without a father and blah, blah, blah... I know there will be numerous retorts. I'm speaking from my experience and in my opinion- I was much better off with a father and my children are much better off havin ga father, so far.

So, no- I wouldnt bang your friend for the purposes of reproducing-only for flesh lust if she was hot.

I have to guess she aint.

If what I have said through the thread IS true, and the kid ends up having problems later in life because of the mother's decisions...it is a horrible thing to conceive of.
What you have said throughout the thread is based on generalisations. You don't know this specific person, or her ability to be a good mother or not. That means, regardless of what you have said is THE TRUTH or not, you can not claim to know that this particular situation will turn out badly. No more than you can point to a couple about to have a child and say, 'they will be good parents' because the stats say that most couples are good parents.

Again, to the question: would you? You've answered. Now you can move on.

It seem (and I may be wrong), but this person you are talking about is actaully you.
I knew someone would say it.

Sorry. Married 10 years, two kids of my own.

By a single mother...well actually a widowed mother from age 8. Was my father necessary? of course Was he there? of course not, he was quite dead. No fault of his own, really. But there we were. A Single mother and a single child. And we did ok. Really. So, when people trot out the canard that ALL children need two parents, well, lets face it, many dont. Seems to me that One parent (0f either gender) who is 100% committed to raising a child is at least as good, if not better, than 2 "career minded" parents who are each less than 50% committed to their child (or worse yet, pawns them off on the "help"). Jus' my 2 centavos

So, no- I wouldnt bang your friend for the purposes of reproducing-only for flesh lust if she was hot.

I have to guess she aint.
Why would you assume that? She has no problem getting men....but when a woman, regardless of her hotness or not says to a guy, "alright now, I want to have a child, so let's talk about signing a contract wherein you would give up your rights to our offspring, could you sign here?", simple lust is not longer going to be enough to cement convince a guy to 'bang' her.

Take your moralising elsewhere. The question was 'would you'...not 'come in and jump down the throats of everyone who doesn't share my family values'.

No not at all, I am not moralising at all. I am answering your question as to would I or not. No one is jumping on your throat or anybody else’s'. You have clearly made your 'point' known on this thread. You have stated that you are ok with the notion that you have put forward (and that is not wrong), but you asked and a few people choose to say as to why we believe that the notion of this lady wanting this child is not fair and right and why we would think its not right.

So would you rather have the thread to simply say 'yes' and no' form 30 different members ? Is that what you want ? Ok then to your highly charged question with morals, philosophy and even religious faith involved… the answer is no I won’t… and if you want to know why, then there are millions of reasons for it.

Maybe she should play online games and get some horny geeky underaged manboy...

That could work

Seems to me that One parent (0f either gender) who is 100% committed to raising a child is at least as good, if not better, than 2 "career minded" parents who are each less than 50% committed to their child (or worse yet, pawns them off on the "help"). Jus' my 2 centavos
Yes. And think about it. Someone who has thought it out enough to either become artificially inseminated, or screen possible candidates for 'fatherhood', and go through the legal issues involved in making sure the man would not be forced into child-support etc...someone who has actually thought about how they want to raise a child and who has educated herself as to the supports available in the community...would this not likely be a better mother than someone who just forgot to take her pill?

I would say the same of people who adopt. It's a long process, and there is a lot you have to go through in order to adopt. Plenty of people still have 'accidents' and then need to figure out how to deal with the consequences. In an adoption situation, or a situation like the one I've described, 'oops' is not a factor.

I knew someone would say it.

Sorry. Married 10 years, two kids of my own.


I think you have to expect that'll happen in here anytime you present a scenario involving a "friend".

Why would you assume that? She has no problem getting men....but when a woman, regardless of her hotness or not says to a guy, "alright now, I want to have a child, so let's talk about signing a contract wherein you would give up your rights to our offspring, could you sign here?", simple lust is not longer going to be enough to cement convince a guy to 'bang' her.


Sin-that was more or less a joke so you'd know it was still me talkin'.

I have to make comments like that, or I wont be me anymore.

No, what I want you to stop doing is this: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10466089&postcount=81
So you want to be a part-time dad or even just a so called 'babysitter' because you don’t want to take the responsibility in taking care of your child. You do not want the ‘hassle’ of the sleepless night and troubles, and the joy and watching your child grow up. That is sadly a very cowardly thing to do. So you do want a bit – just the ‘nice’ things to be part of and say that its your child but you do not want to provide for the child both emotionally, physically and financially. The child deservers more than just an excuse of a person to be a father for them.

Why on earth do you want to be a father if you cant be bothered ? this is not like owning a car ??? Its about bringing up a life – a person.
Where you make a series of accusations and assumptions based on your belief that this action is wrong. You can absolutely discuss your opinion on the matter...but that doesn't mean you have the 'authority' to insult other people, tell them that their motivations are bad (as if you understood them in the first place) and go on to insult their character because of the answer they've given.

By a single mother...well actually a widowed mother from age 8. Was my father necessary? of course Was he there? of course not, he was quite dead. No fault of his own, really. But there we were. A Single mother and a single child. And we did ok. Really. So, when people trot out the canard that ALL children need two parents, well, lets face it, many dont. Seems to me that One parent (0f either gender) who is 100% committed to raising a child is at least as good, if not better, than 2 "career minded" parents who are each less than 50% committed to their child (or worse yet, pawns them off on the "help"). Jus' my 2 centavos
Nobody says all children NEED two parents. However, it's certainly better to have two caring parents than just one. If one parent giving 100% percent to his children is good, it's logical that two parents giving 100% to their children are better.

And to finally answer Sinuhue's question (I just realised I haven't :)): no. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I want to play a significant part in my child's life. Oh, wait, I don't think I'm old-fashioned. I would be just a good father.

I think you have to expect that'll happen in here anytime you present a scenario involving a "friend".
Oh, I know...I'd have brought it up myself had I not been the OP:)

Yes. And think about it. Someone who has thought it out enough to either become artificially inseminated, or screen possible candidates for 'fatherhood', and go through the legal issues involved in making sure the man would not be forced into child-support etc...someone who has actually thought about how they want to raise a child and who has educated herself as to the supports available in the community...would this not likely be a better mother than someone who just forgot to take her pill?

I would say the same of people who adopt. It's a long process, and there is a lot you have to go through in order to adopt. Plenty of people still have 'accidents' and then need to figure out how to deal with the consequences. In an adoption situation, or a situation like the one I've described, 'oops' is not a factor.
But what about the 'I do care about any child I put on this earth' factor?

Blocking the man out like that can definately scare them away.

Sin-that was more or less a joke so you'd know it was still me talkin'.

I have to make comments like that, or I wont be me anymore.
Coming from you, it didn't bother me...but I addressed the issue anyway, because I'm sure people are thinking it...

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?

If she simply had the man impregnate her and not have to be a father figure at all she might have better chances. I mean, I wouldnt want to see my kids every once in awhile- it'd be better to see them all the time or never. Otherwise It'd probably break my heart, besides dont you think the child might have severe issues similiar to those of children whose parents divorce? It just seems worse than them being fatherless.

I wouldn't do it for the simple reason that I saw a story of a guy who did it, HAD A CONTRACT absolving him of all responsibility, and the butch turned around 4 years later, sued him for support, AND WON!

Not to say your friend is that way, but if even a contract can't gaurantee my not being screwed later on, I wouldn't chance it.

Besides that, it isn't fair to the kid to never know who his dad is. I'm not saying a single mom can't raise a kid, but if that mom says to the kid "Ya, I know who your dad is, but I promised him I wouldn't tell you. Sorry" it would tend to really screw a kid up.

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?


I do it if she was hot :D

I wouldn't want to be a part of the kids life, but I would want to see pics as he/she grew up and to get the scoop on what the kid is like and all the good stories.

But what about the 'I do care about any child I put on this earth' factor?

Blocking the man out like that can definately scare them away.
I can't speak for all cases, because I have known women who didn't want ANY contact with the father (and went to a sperm bank). However, in this case, my friend isn't against contact. However, she doesn't want to be pressured into living with the man who fathers her child, and she is terrified that somehow he could take the child from her one day. So she wants to limit his legal rights/responsibilities. She does want the father to have contact with the child, to the extent that he wishes (as long those two terms aren't violated...living with her, or taking the child), and that would be something that would have to be discussed, and put into a contract form. It depends on the father, and how involved he would WANT to be.

To answer Sinuhue's original question, if I were a man, I believe I would have a hard time agreeing to that request unless I knew the mother VERY well. I have personally borne witness to more than one situation where a mother gets into a financial bind, and then decides the best way to dig herself out of the hole she's in is to try to get money from the child's father via child support, which most US courts are more than happy to give her even if there was a prior agreement that she would never seek such. As a man, I'd need to be absolutely certain that there was no chance of that situation occurring.

As a single mom, I find the rest of this thread aggravating. First of all, it's best for the child to be in a loving home, irrespective of the number of other people who live there. Period. Second, most single moms don't start out with the goal of being such, it just happens. Life sucks sometimes. But, thirdly, most of us unintentionally single women are doing just fine with our children in spite of the fact that many of their fathers have entirely dropped the ball. There are a thousand ways to give a child good adult role models other than making a marriage you don't really want. Just like some people make good spouses but not good parents, some people make good parents but not good spouses. Good for Sin's friend for knowing herself and her own needs so well. Even though I would not personally make her choice, I'm sure if she chooses to go this route she will do just fine. Single parenthood is very hard, but it is also very worthwhile. :)

Okay a lot of people keep thinking she would totally exclude the father from the childs life. If I read previous posts crrectly by Sin then the woman would gladly allow the father to be a part of the child's life but she wants to not marry him and not be attached to the father and raise the child primarily on her own. Correct me if I am wrong.

I wouldn't do it for the simple reason that I saw a story of a guy who did it, HAD A CONTRACT absolving him of all responsibility, and the butch turned around 4 years later, sued him for support, AND WON! It'd be a good idea to understand the laws in the area you live then. I wouldn't assume from this case that this would be possible everywhere.

Not to say your friend is that way, but if even a contract can't gaurantee my not being screwed later on, I wouldn't chance it. She feels the same way, in terms of the father possibly being able to sue her for custody. So she's being awfully careful.

Besides that, it isn't fair to the kid to never know who his dad is. I'm not saying a single mom can't raise a kid, but if that mom says to the kid "Ya, I know who your dad is, but I promised him I wouldn't tell you. Sorry" it would tend to really screw a kid up.
I agree...I'm also for open adoptions. In this case, she wouldn't accept a guy who refused to ever be approached by the kid.

Sperm bank: $10,000
Adoption: $10,000
Getting knocked up by a willing friend/stranger: free.

Plus, many people really want a biological connection with the child that they raise.
she is going to the wrong sperm bank. it should cost well under $1000 even in canada.

http://www.spermcenter.com/tutfees.htm

As a single mom, I find the rest of this thread aggravating. First of all, it's best for the child to be in a loving home, irrespective of the number of other people who live there. Period. Second, most single moms don't start out with the goal of being such, it just happens. Life sucks sometimes. But, thirdly, most of us unintentionally single women are doing just fine with our children in spite of the fact that many of their fathers have entirely dropped the ball. There are a thousand ways to give a child good adult role models other than making a marriage you don't really want. Just like some people make good spouses but not good parents, some people make good parents but not good spouses. Good for Sin's friend for knowing herself and her own needs so well. Even though I would not personally make her choice, I'm sure if she chooses to go this route she will do just fine. Single parenthood is very hard, but it is also very worthwhile. :)
Thank you. I couldn't quite verbalise why this 'SINGLE PARENTS ARE TEH SUX' bothered me so much. Every person is different. All the stats tell you are the possibilities, but you need to 'judge' on a case by case basis. I would never assume that someone had a good childhood because they had a two-parent family, nor would I assume that someone had a bad childhood because they didn't. Life doesn't work that way.

I can't speak for all cases, because I have known women who didn't want ANY contact with the father (and went to a sperm bank). However, in this case, my friend isn't against contact. However, she doesn't want to be pressured into living with the man who fathers her child, and she is terrified that somehow he could take the child from her one day. So she wants to limit his legal rights/responsibilities. She does want the father to have contact with the child, to the extent that he wishes (as long those two terms aren't violated...living with her, or taking the child), and that would be something that would have to be discussed, and put into a contract form. It depends on the father, and how involved he would WANT to be.
Well he can't be there for the child all the time, so it IS blocking out.

And if she's having such a hard time finding such a person, then....
a) She should do it sneaky. Get a man (preferably from far away I think) to impregnate her. Maybe tell him about it, but if she does then tell him she will take care of the child. And that he has nothing to worry about. Leave adress or phone number if he wants to be involved.
b) She should suck it up and find a good person to live with. Have a child with that man.

IMHO

Okay a lot of people keep thinking she would totally exclude the father from the childs life. If I read previous posts crrectly by Sin then the woman would gladly allow the father to be a part of the child's life but she wants to not marry him and not be attached to the father and raise the child primarily on her own. Correct me if I am wrong.
This is true. She wants the man to have the legal assurance that he will not be held financially (or other) responsible for the child unless he wishes to be. She wants the assurance that she will always be the primary caregiver. The extent of the contact is really up to her, and the father.

I can just imagine the friggin' size of that contract though....uck!

she is going to the wrong sperm bank. it should cost well under $1000 even in canada.

http://www.spermcenter.com/tutfees.htm
Yet is it not true that the donors have signed a waiver guaranteeing anonimity and no further contact with their possible offspring? She's not down with that. She wants the kid to know who his/her father is.

It seems a tad odd to want to seriously and maturely want to bring a child into this world through one's own body when one is worried about appearing to be able to support the child as it grows and having the 'surrogate' father decide to try for some/any parenting rights (as they are doing increasingly, or so the media would make viewers believe). Throw in on top of the previous two ingredients, a "I can do as I like and all other details and information are superfluous and alltogether unnecessary" attitude as conveyed by Madame...

I hope you can at least see why we'd want some more info from the horse's mouth....

Well he can't be there for the child all the time, so it IS blocking out.

And if she's having such a hard time finding such a person, then....
a) She should do it sneaky. Get a man (preferably from far away I think) to impregnate her. Maybe tell him about it, but if she does then tell him she will take care of the child. And that he has nothing to worry about. Leave adress or phone number if he wants to be involved. She won't do that. She thinks it would be totally wrong to trick someone into knocking her up. It would also leave her open to a possible custody battle. She wants this thing out in the open, and clearly deliniated legally.
b) She should suck it up and find a good person to live with. Have a child with that man. Tick, tick, tick...do you really think that a whirlwind search for a relationship, driven by the desire to have a child, is going to be a good idea? She doesn't want to 'suck it up and settle down', because who is to say that the man she chooses will be a good long-term partner? Hell, I waited for six years before I decided I wanted to have children with my husband!:) She is not saying, "I will never marry or never settle down", but she doesn't want to make that decision just because she's running out of time to have a kid. If a partner comes into the picture later on, then great.

I hope your friend finds someone who would agree to this and father a child with her. Maybe she'll get lucky and he'll be the 'right guy' and they'll get married or maybe they won't. Whatever, her life and she's free to live it as she want. I wish her luck.

It seems a tad odd to want to seriously and maturely want to bring a child into this world through one's own body when one is worried about appearing to be able to support the child as it grows and having the 'surrogate' father decide to try for some/any parenting rights (as they are doing increasingly, or so the media would make viewers believe). Throw in on top of the previous two ingredients, a "I can do as I like and all other details and information are superfluous and alltogether unnecessary" attitude
It seems odd, because it is out of the ordinary. I assure you, this is what she wants. The oddness factor is definately going to affect the success of finding a suitable father. That's obvious.

as conveyed by Madame... Yeah, you can stop with the smarmy little references to me, and use my poster name, or just say 'OP'.

I hope you can at least see why we'd want some more info from the horse's mouth.... That's nice. I'm not about to ask her to drop everything and come here to answer your questions.

I would only expect her to be sexy, financially secure and ask her about her views on how a kid should be raised (in addition to pictures and updates I talked about earlier) and see if I agreed before I went along with it but other than that I wouldn't have any objections to helping her out.

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?

No. Don't particularly care much for children pro or anti. But if i ever did decide to raise any, my philosophy is "there's enough unwanted kids in the world, adopt"

She won't do that. She thinks it would be totally wrong to trick someone into knocking her up. It would also leave her open to a possible custody battle. She wants this thing out in the open, and clearly deliniated legally.

Tick, tick, tick...do you really think that a whirlwind search for a relationship, driven by the desire to have a child, is going to be a good idea? She doesn't want to 'suck it up and settle down', because who is to say that the man she chooses will be a good long-term partner? Hell, I waited for six years before I decided I wanted to have children with my husband!:) She is not saying, "I will never marry or never settle down", but she doesn't want to make that decision just because she's running out of time to have a kid. If a partner comes into the picture later on, then great.
But tricking is fun :)

It seems (again... just to me. I might well be wrong) now that since she doesn't want a relationship with a person just to get a baby, she is getting paranoid (or something like that) about all relationships.

The question she has to ask is: "How defining is having a child for my happiness?"

And now I'm off home. Have fun kids :fluffle:

I know if the situation was reversed...say, a man I knew wanted to be a father and didn't want to settle down, and asked me to bear his child, and have no legal responsibility for it (outside of what we would agree on) that I would probably not agree to do it. However, a woman goes through more bringing a child to term...perhaps I wouldn't be willing to go through that much effort for 'nothing'. It would be physically easier for a man to help conceive a child...but emotionally, I would imagine it would be as difficult to give up the result.

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?
I've considered it, but my opposition to adding to the human population-at-large is more fundamental than I might first have thought.

No breeding here.

I know if the situation was reversed...say, a man I knew wanted to be a father and didn't want to settle down, and asked me to bear his child, and have no legal responsibility for it (outside of what we would agree on) that I would probably not agree to do it. However, a woman goes through more bringing a child to term...perhaps I wouldn't be willing to go through that much effort for 'nothing'. It would be physically easier for a man to help conceive a child...but emotionally, I would imagine it would be as difficult to give up the result.


not for me

But tricking is fun :)

It seems (again... just to me. I might well be wrong) now that since she doesn't want a relationship with a person just to get a baby, she is getting paranoid (or something like that) about all relationships.I don't see that. Eventually she wants a husband...but it's not something she wants to rush just so she can have a kid. She has a limited amount of time in which to have a child (safely), and that time is now. She isn't willing to compromise the time necessary to form a lasting and meaningful relationship with a man just because she wants a child now.
The question she has to ask is: "How defining is having a child for my happiness?" It's obviously pretty damn important to her, or she wouldn't be going through this mess. What is less important to her is finding a husband. That can come AFTER the child.

not for me
Well then Sumamba...perhaps I need to forward you some pics and a bio:)

Look at all the 'traditional family' moralists coming out of the woodwork.

As I recall you asked for peoples opinions, now it seems you want to be critical and judgemental of them. Nonetheless, my opinion follows. If the child were born a boy, where would the positive male role model come from. This would be my only real concern. You know some of us men really are caring, nurturing people.

THINK LESS, LIVE MORE!

Well then Sumamba...perhaps I need to forward you some pics and a bio:)


sounds good

got any nudes? :D

I seriously would do it if I agreed with everything and my woman was okay with it. I bet she would be interested in seeing it grow up too. she would probably want more contact with the kid than I would though.

If I was a guy, I would totally help your friend out Sinuhue. :D But since I'm female, I'll answer the question you asked in the beginning of the thread. I've always wanted to adopt, so I probably would never be in the same situation(which makes it hard to fully grasp and really understand your friends motives) so I can't really say for sure if I would ever want to have a child this way or not. I don't, however, have a problem with what she's doing, and I'm sure she would make a fantastic mother. I wish her luck in her search :).

Look at all the 'traditional family' moralists coming out of the woodwork.

As I recall you asked for peoples opinions, now it seems you want to be critical and judgemental of them. Nonetheless, my opinion follows. If the child were born a boy, where would the positive male role model come from. This would be my only real concern. You know some of us men really are caring, nurturing people.

THINK LESS, LIVE MORE!


I was raised by a single mother and am now successful and happy and getting married to a wonderful woman. I don't see why someone needsa male role model.

Look at all the 'traditional family' moralists coming out of the woodwork.

As I recall you asked for peoples opinions, now it seems you want to be critical and judgemental of them. Nonetheless, my opinion follows. If the child were born a boy, where would the positive male role model come from. This would be my only real concern. You know some of us men really are caring, nurturing people.

THINK LESS, LIVE MORE!
How amusing. I ask people to stop being critical and judgmental about my friend's decision, about the answers that other posts have given, and now I'm guilty of being critical and judgmental? You're right. I am critical and judgmental of people who want to cram their beliefs (single parents are bad!) down everyone's throat, and who believe that their definition of morality is THE TRUTH. I am judgmental of people who think that there is one right way to do things. The world doesn't work that way.

I was raised by a single mother and am now successful and happy and getting married to a wonderful woman. I don't see why someone needsa male role model.
Clearly, not having a male role model is what made you bi. And bi is bad. Right?:rolleyes:

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?
Seeing as how I have no interest in having children...no. But if, for some reason, I did want to have children, I would not have any problem using an annonymous donor or whatever. I do not believe children "need" a male parent, any more than they "need" a female parent; the gender of a parent or set of parents does not inherently determine the quality (or even the quantity) of parenting that a child will receive.

sounds good

got any nudes? :D

I seriously would do it if I agreed with everything and my woman was okay with it. I bet she would be interested in seeing it grow up too. she would probably want more contact with the kid than I would though.
Discuss it with the finace as a 'maybe' scenario, and maybe we'll talk about it further:)

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt. Sperm banks are too expensive, and a little too anonymous for her taste. She doesn't feel right 'tricking' a guy into getting her pregnant. What she wants, is a man who will father her child, but not expect to be a large part of that child's life. She doesn't want a total lack of contact, but she doesn't want to worry about the father making future claims on her or the child. She makes all this very clear to the men she meets and that she is willing to enter into a contract with the father that would absolve him of any parental responsibility. Oddly enough, she has found few who are even willing to consider it:).

So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

Women, would you ever look for an arrangement like this? I always knew I wanted children one day, and had I not settled down and had two of my own by now, I probably would be willing to do something similar. However, there would certainly be a sort of stigma surrounding such an action "oh, she can't find herself a man" and so on...but what if you didn't want to just 'end up' with someone in order to have kids?

Anyway, thoughts?

Wait, what's in it for me?

Sounds like a shit deal. You get to be the father, but have little to no say in the child's life. What's the point in that? If the situation were reversed, feminists would have a hissy fit. "But it's my chiiiiild!" Shit.

In answer to the O.P, yes I would consider it. Because I've often thought to myself "hey, I've got traits that people might find handy, I should pass them on". But I don't want kids because family life doesn't interest me. But if I knew I was continuing out there somewhere, it might make me feel a little better about the slightly selfish act of not having kids of my own.

As for male role models... I think if we didn't worry so much about male and female role models for children, gender discrimination wouldn't be a problem. There's no real difference between the sexes, but when society sticks a gun in the boy's hand and a doll in the girl's, why are they so surprised by the results?

But Nature vs. Nurture is a can o' worms for another thread methinks.

Clearly, not having a male role model is what made you bi. And bi is bad. Right?:rolleyes:

No being bi is very very good! :D

Discuss it with the finace as a 'maybe' scenario, and maybe we'll talk about it further:)


Okay I'll see where she stands on this. Then you and your friend can fly down to Vegas and see if I can impregnate both of you lol

I couldn't bear to have/produce children, but if that were different, I wouldn't rule it out to get them that very same way.
Especially seeing as I couldn't have children by my partner, and I'd like the kid to be able to know who their father is, and be around him if they wanted to, that would probably even be my preferred method (given the current impossibility in my country to adopt).

P.S.: I'd need to know the person I impregnate isn't some wacko
Damn, I knew there was a catch to my plans.

In my opinion, every child has the right to a mother and a father. I don't approve of this...

I wouldn't do it nope.

I plan on having kids one day, and I plan on being a father and wanna be a father, and i wanna treat my kid(s) with as much love as possible.

Personally, I think she should find love and get married then have kids. I think that would also save the kid alot of grief of not having a father, and also hows she supposed to get a job to get mkoney, and raise the kid at the same time?

This is all just my opinion on the subject, although my opinion doesn't mean much.

Also, im a bit surprised that atleast one guy hasn't said yes. I know quite alot of horny guys that would go for it just for the sex, and wouldn't even care that he didnt get to see the kid. (Unfortantly, i'm related to a couple of people like this.) and I know the world is probably full of others like this, but I'm definatly not one of them.

Also, im a bit surprised that atleast one guy hasn't said yes.

Somehow I doubt I'm the only one. I already explained my reasoning

Well actually, I said Id say Yes (but only with the proper legal protections, which alas dont exist). And ... sex? Was that part of the bargain? I thought she was talking about one of those test-tubey thingy things...hell sex...well now, gotta reconsider yet again :D

I would do that.

Actually, one of my roommates in first year was brought about in this manner. Her mom took a look at her male friends, chose the one who she thought had the best genes, had sex with him, got pregnant and then he didn't have to do anything with her after that point.

Also, im a bit surprised that atleast one guy hasn't said yes. I know quite alot of horny guys that would go for it just for the sex, and wouldn't even care that he didnt get to see the kid. (Unfortantly, i'm related to a couple of people like this.) and I know the world is probably full of others like this, but I'm definatly not one of them.
A few have said yes, but it's a lot more problematic than just having sex. Men are going to be (rightfully so) concerned about the possible legal implications of impregnating a woman. So it's not something you'd just jump into after cocktails. Plus, it forces you to evaluate your feelings about fatherhood, and what level of involvement you'd be comfortable having. I suspect that most guys would simply say, "you know what? I'm not really sure about this, or how I feel about it, so I'm going to take a pass". Perfectly understandable. It'd be horrible to do something like this while you're young, thinking that it won't bother you later on to have limited contact with your child...and then find out in 10 years or so that you really regret the decision, and wished you could've been more a part of that kid's life.

I would do that.

Actually, one of my roommates in first year was brought about in this manner. Her mom took a look at her male friends, chose the one who she thought had the best genes, had sex with him, got pregnant and then he didn't have to do anything with her after that point.
If I weren't married, and if I really wanted kids, this is what I'd do. I have another friend who was preparing to do something similar...then ended up falling in love with an Albanian JUST IN TIME and is trying with her new husband to get knocked up. My other friend (from the OP) is not counting on a last minute love affair:)

Wait, what's in it for me?

Sounds like a shit deal. You get to be the father, but have little to no say in the child's life. What's the point in that? If the situation were reversed, feminists would have a hissy fit. "But it's my chiiiiild!" Shit.
If I was male I would leap at the opportunity. See, I don't ever want to have children of my own, but it would be kind of interesting for me to see what would happen if my genetic material were passed on.

Hell, I already would have donated my eggs, if it weren't such a nasty and uncomfortable process. If I could donate my eggs by masturbating I would have done so years ago! I don't get why more guys aren't selling their sperm.

If I was male I would leap at the opportunity. See, I don't ever want to have children of my own, but it would be kind of interesting for me to see what would happen if my genetic material were passed on.

Hell, I already would have donated my eggs, if it weren't such a nasty and uncomfortable process. If I could donate my eggs by masturbating I would have done so years ago! I don't get why more guys aren't selling their sperm.


Well, this isn't just sperm donation we're talking here. They pay you for that!

If I was male I would leap at the opportunity. See, I don't ever want to have children of my own, but it would be kind of interesting for me to see what would happen if my genetic material were passed on.

Hell, I already would have donated my eggs, if it weren't such a nasty and uncomfortable process. If I could donate my eggs by masturbating I would have done so years ago! I don't get why more guys aren't selling their sperm.

I think there is a cutoff on the age,if I'm not mistaken. I want to say it was 20 something years old. That rules me out at 38 yrs old.
I'd probably do it, especially if they had an experienced assistant there to harvest it.

I think there are other standards that have to be met that might rule many others out- height, college education- stuff like that.

I think there is a cutoff on the age,if I'm not mistaken. I want to say it was 20 something years old. That rules me out at 38 yrs old.
I'd probably do it, especially if they had an experienced assistant there to harvest it.

I think there are other standards that have to be met that might rule many others out- height, college education- stuff like that.


I was actually goign to do it, but I was ruled out because I have a half-sister with physical and mental handicaps.

I was actually goign to do it, but I was ruled out because I have a half-sister with physical and mental handicaps.


I guess they require you to fill out a pretty thorough report, huh?

It makes sense-I dont think the demand is terribly high-they can afford to have very high standards.

Any idea what they pay for a load?

I guess they require you to fill out a pretty thorough report, huh?

It makes sense-I dont think the demand is terribly high-they can afford to have very high standards.

Any idea what they pay for a load?

This was years ago.... I think it was about $50

This was years ago.... I think it was about $50

Damn! Now that's a job I'd like to have.

"Occupation: Full-time Wanker"

I wouldn't be able to do it.

I couldn't father a child and be almost completely absent in their life. I understand her wanting a child, but I'd feel obligated to be a father. That's also why I will never donate sperm.

Everyone! why the heck cant you just live life like it is SUPPOSED to be! not with donation crap and abortion! If you dont frikin want a child then dont have sex! :headbang: everyone is so anoying!!!

(abortion) :sniper:

This was years ago.... I think it was about $50


Wow. Would they take a few a day?

imagine a W2 for a year's worth of semen production?:D

Yet is it not true that the donors have signed a waiver guaranteeing anonimity and no further contact with their possible offspring? She's not down with that. She wants the kid to know who his/her father is.
yeah but she will leave herself open to endless possible troubles. there is no guarantee that a man will remain "reasonable". he might decide that he wants nothing to do with the child, he might decide to sue for full custody. its bad enough when you have enough relationship with a man to marry him--look how often that turns out badly. but to make a baby with someone who has no reason to "play nice" is fraught with danger. better to be the sole parent in my opinion.

there are probably some men who want to go the sperm donor route for the legal protections but are willing to let their offspring know who they are at some point. it might be worth searching for.

Everyone! why the heck cant you just live life like it is SUPPOSED to be! not with donation crap and abortion! If you dont frikin want a child then dont have sex! :headbang: everyone is so anoying!!!

(abortion) :sniper:


How does one respond to this....

Oh, I know. :rolleyes:

Wow. Would they take a few a day?

imagine a W2 for a year's worth of semen production?:D


lol - I think that it was supposed to be a few times a week for 6 months or something.

No, I don't think I would consider that, either.

I don't support artificial insemination and test tube babies, as long as there are virtually millions of unwanted children and babies on the planet. You want a kid, you can't get one yourself, go out and adopt. Everything else would be selfish beyond belief and is not worth supporting in any way.

for some they may seem to care about carying on their family DNA, that doesnt happen when you adopt

I've had a vasectomy, otherwise I'd do it.

Wow. Would they take a few a day?

imagine a W2 for a year's worth of semen production?:D
I bet you'd get awfully tired...maybe you'd even 'run out of juice'. That would be just terrible. No, seriously!

yeah but she will leave herself open to endless possible troubles. there is no guarantee that a man will remain "reasonable". he might decide that he wants nothing to do with the child, he might decide to sue for full custody. its bad enough when you have enough relationship with a man to marry him--look how often that turns out badly. but to make a baby with someone who has no reason to "play nice" is fraught with danger. better to be the sole parent in my opinion.
That is one bleak picture:(

You know, Eichen was considering this for some friends of his. A lesbian couple. I wonder if he ever made a decision. Where the heck has he been?

That is one bleak picture:(
A lot of the bad things can happen with a man that you marry... he can leave you and try to take the child legally or illegally...

I think if I hadn't met my partner I'd definitely consider it. I don't think I'd really take into account the social stigma, because I'd rather not run my life according to someone else's values. That and I think alternative family arrangements are great. :)

I'd also consider adoption quite seriously. I still think about adoption now, but we definitely want to have at least one biological child and blended families can be a challenge... This stuff is confusing!

You know, Eichen was considering this for some friends of his. A lesbian couple. I wonder if he ever made a decision. Where the heck has he been?
That's right! I forgot about that!

I think it happens more than people know.

A lot of the bad things can happen with a man that you marry... he can leave you and try to take the child legally or illegally...
I know it. My friend is having a hard time with her desire to not totally cut her kid off from possible contact with his/her father, and the fear that said father might turn into a total ass and fight her for the child. And so many people think that it's just men who lose their kids...

I'd also consider adoption quite seriously. I still think about adoption now, but we definitely want to have at least one biological child and blended families can be a challenge... This stuff is confusing!
We want to adopt now, but we're a bit overwhelmed by the paperwork (and money!) needed to do so. It's easier to have more of our own, but it seems a bit...wasteful?

We want to adopt now, but we're a bit overwhelmed by the paperwork (and money!) needed to do so. It's easier to have more of our own, but it seems a bit...wasteful?
Yeah, I know what you mean. The cost of adoption is prohibitive. A friend of my mum's is in the process and it's costing her tens of thousands of dollars, plus she has to remain in India until the adoption goes through, so she can't go back to work or anything... That effectively rules out sooo many possible parents from adopting...

And I've been doing reading into environmental issues, and sustainability and it makes me think that having more than one biological child is wasteful and a huge strain on the environment. I guess we'll se in a few years.

THINK LESS, LIVE MORE!
What a stupid concept.

I would be perfectly willing to do something like that, as long as it were clear that I would have no responsibility for the child.

I'm sorry, but if you want to take on the responsibility of a child, then you have to take on the responsibility of a full family. You can't just bypass having a husband. Well, you can, I guess, but morally, I don't think it's right. I can't imagine a guy impregnating a woman, then leaving his child and the woman bearing it. That's horrible. It's running away from responsibility by all parties except the child.

And if I were that child, I'd be hella pissed when I find out.

Depends if the chick is atractive or not.

Everyone! why the heck cant you just live life like it is SUPPOSED to be! not with donation crap and abortion! If you dont frikin want a child then dont have sex! :headbang: everyone is so anoying!!!

(abortion) :sniper:

lol! you're funny! O :eek:, you were being serious? you must have afun life .

no.
Originally Posted by Sinuhue
So I bring this question to the men on board...is this something you would ever consider doing for someone? What aspects of this request would bother you/interest you?

never..i love kids too much too let some self centered ho fuck me outta seeing the child..so no..sory if that came across harsh,but why does every girl assume men are are shit and woukld fuck up their lives?

she would be lucky to
a.have my offspring
b.have a guy like me that loves kids....but i guess only women are capable of love:-(

But growing up, if you had the chance, would you subsitute the father you have with an alternate-world one that was a good guy?Honestly? No, I don't think so. My mother and I are genuinely friends, not just mother and daughter. Had she and I both had to balance our time between each other and a partner/father for the past 22 years, I am not convinced that would have happened (not to the same extent anyway).

But you have to cite exceptions to even show that. In a majority of cases, it will be the point that two parents are more qualified than one, with all things being equal.I'm no expert in the area in academic terms and can't be arsed Googling for statistics (which probably wouldn't be reliable anyway), so all I can do is speak from observation. I certainly know a lot of very balanced, 'normal' people from good marriages/partnerships. However, I also know some headbins; my uncle and aunt, to use one example, have been married nearly 50 years, but their four children are all psychopaths (not that I have a problem with that per se, but society seems to). On the flip side, I honestly don't know of anyone from a single-parent family or broken relationship who's anything but balanced. (Of course that's not to say that such people do not exist, but as I say, I can only speak from my observations).

At the end of the day, yes, you should have the kid's best interests at heart if you make the decision to bring one into the world. From a financial point of view if nothing else, that's probably best in a relationship. I do concede that in terms of love and support, that too is - on balance - probably best within the confines of a relationship (my points before being that there is certainly no guarantee either way, so I don't see why generalised statistics should stop this woman). However, if you honestly feel that you have the ability to be a good parent on your own (and the practicalities of money, a house etc are acceptable), then I see no reason why not to go ahead.

It would completly depend on my own situation. If I was settled down with kids of my own, no. If I was single and had nothing better to do, why not help someone out?

I have a friend who is getting on in years, and that biological clock is tick-tick-ticking away...she doesn't want to settle down and find herself a husband just so she can have a child, so now she is on the hunt.
<snip>


Sinuhue ... with all due respect ...
I've seldomly heard something so selfish!
One of my friends is talking about the women's
"Center Of The Universe Complex"
Your friend seems to be a good example for his theory.
I, as a male, would feel mortally offended if I'd be asked something like this.
We are not machines or animals or Teddy bears without feelings.
And it is NOT HER DECISION if the kid wants to meet the father.
If the kid wants to meet the father who the heck does she think that she is to cut off the contact?
A KID IS NOT A MOTHER'S PROPERTY!

You know what I would tell your friend:

"Grow up, get real, stop your selfishness. If you'd be able to handle that, you might be able to "handle" a kid.
With your stance over relationship and children, please do yourself a favour and refrain from having a kid.
Don't expect your kid to be thankful that you arranged its life without a father. Without the chance for the kid to decide."

Your friend, Sinuhue, is not mature enough for a kid.

No offense meant, please don't misunderstand me.:)

Well, this isn't just sperm donation we're talking here. They pay you for that!
Again, if I could donate my eggs by masturbating, I would do it in a second. I'd do it for free!

It's interesting for me to see so many guys posting that they wouldn't do this because they would WANT to be a Dad to any child they fathered. It often feels like TV goes out of its way to convince people that men will do anything in their power to avoid taking responsibility for their offspring, and it's really nice to see actual men correcting that warped image.

Of course, I have to admit that I would only be a "donor" if I were to be absolved of any and all responsibility to the offspring, so I guess I'm the stereotypical "deadbeat dad." :)

That is one bleak picture:(
It's true though, and a good point...the woman in question needs to be sure that she has the male donor legally sign away his parental rights if she wants to be the sole full-time parent, otherwise he could change his mind at any time. In today's fucked up culture, a judge might even use the sperm donation as "proof" that she wouldn't be a good parent, because she wasn't building the "right" kind of family, and she could end up losing the child.

never..i love kids too much too let some self centered ho fuck me outta seeing the child..so no..sory if that came across harsh,but why does every girl assume men are are shit and woukld fuck up their lives?

she would be lucky to
a.have my offspring
b.have a guy like me that loves kids....but i guess only women are capable of love:-(
Why would you make these outrageous assumptions about a woman who wants a child, yet is not in a long-term relationship? You are assuming that she think men are bad, and that's why she hasn't settled down yet. You are assuming that she thinks men can't love, or some other shite like that. The fact is, she would like to be married by now, but she's been too bloody busy as a forensic anthropologist, digging up mass graves in the former Yugoslavia (she's Serbo-Croatian), and that has left her without the time to find a suitable candidate. She is running out of time to have a child, and she's not just going to randomly choose some guy to spend the rest of her life with. To father her child, fine...but if you really think that procreation=life-time commitment, you need to look around. No doubt, one day she'll marry. But right now, a child is her priority. Maybe that seems 'backwards'. But that's only if you don't grasp the situation she is in.

Sin, I cant remember, but did you say she didnt want to go the sperm donor clinic route? I wonder how expensive that is?

Sinuhue ... with all due respect ...
I've seldomly heard something so selfish!
One of my friends is talking about the women's
"Center Of The Universe Complex"
Your friend seems to be a good example for his theory.
I, as a male, would feel mortally offended if I'd be asked something like this.
We are not machines or animals or Teddy bears without feelings.
And it is NOT HER DECISION if the kid wants to meet the father.
If the kid wants to meet the father who the heck does she think that she is to cut off the contact?
A KID IS NOT A MOTHER'S PROPERTY!

You obviously missed the point where my friend, not wanting the total anonymity of a sperm donor (who will never meet his offspring, by law), has decided she would rather have someone who would be willing to be a part of the child's life...but not her partner. How much the father of her child will be a part of that child's life is mostly up to him. Her limits are the following: he will not be given sole custody, and he will not live with her just because he's fathered her child (unless sparks fly, and things really go well between them).

You know what I would tell your friend:

"Grow up, get real, stop your selfishness. If you'd be able to handle that, you might be able to "handle" a kid.
With your stance over relationship and children, please do yourself a favour and refrain from having a kid.
Don't expect your kid to be thankful that you arranged its life without a father. Without the chance for the kid to decide." And she would tell you to kiss her ass. Which is a suitable response to such an ignorant, judgmental and clueless rant. You have no idea what her stance is on having a relationship. You are making assumptions based in your own personal biases. She is not in a relationship because she hasn't found the man she wants to settle down with yet...should this doom her to childlessness? How very humane of you to think so.

Your friend, Sinuhue, is not mature enough for a kid.

No offense meant, please don't misunderstand me.:)I think it's you who has misunderstood. Please go through the thread, and read the posts I've made about her motivation, and her desires on this matter, rather than making assumptions.

It's interesting for me to see so many guys posting that they wouldn't do this because they would WANT to be a Dad to any child they fathered. It often feels like TV goes out of its way to convince people that men will do anything in their power to avoid taking responsibility for their offspring, and it's really nice to see actual men correcting that warped image. I agree. The reason this issue has been so problematic for my friend is because when it comes down to it, most men aren't comfortable fathering a child and just abandoning it. They wouldn't have to of course in this case...but there would likely be no possibility of them making a home with the mother and child. And it could cause them trouble later on if a future girlfriend or spouse couldn't accept the situation (of them already having a child somewhere).

However, what has also come out in this thread is a knee-jerk reaction to the concept of a woman wanting to be a single mother. Oh, she must hate men. Maybe she's a lesbian. How selfish, she wants to ruin a child's life. Jesus wept.

It's true though, and a good point...the woman in question needs to be sure that she has the male donor legally sign away his parental rights if she wants to be the sole full-time parent, otherwise he could change his mind at any time. In today's fucked up culture, a judge might even use the sperm donation as "proof" that she wouldn't be a good parent, because she wasn't building the "right" kind of family, and she could end up losing the child.
Look at how many people in this thread alone believe that. Scary.

Sin, I cant remember, but did you say she didnt want to go the sperm donor clinic route? I wonder how expensive that is?
It's pretty expensive. Someone gave a link earlier saying it could be as cheap as $1000...but that's pretty much without doctor's visits, with an unwashed vial of sperm...and with limited information about the donor. The average is about $10,000 for a guided fertilisation via sperm bank. However, the donors generally sign waivers of anonymity, and there would be no chance of the child knowing who the father is. She doesn't want that total lack of connection, and she frankly can't afford that route.

I agree. The reason this issue has been so problematic for my friend is because when it comes down to it, most men aren't comfortable fathering a child and just abandoning it. They wouldn't have to of course in this case...but there would likely be no possibility of them making a home with the mother and child. And it could cause them trouble later on if a future girlfriend or spouse couldn't accept the situation (of them already having a child somewhere).

However, what has also come out in this thread is a knee-jerk reaction to the concept of a woman wanting to be a single mother. Oh, she must hate men. Maybe she's a lesbian. How selfish, she wants to ruin a child's life. Jesus wept.

I have a gay male friend who had a child with a mutual friend of ours. They lead seperate lives romantically of course, but he is still very active in the childs life. They dont have a 'Set' schedule of visitation because they agreed it would be on a voluntary basis, no strings attached. He generally sees the child every other weekend and they even get together as one big family on holidays sometimes. He and his partner come over and vice versa. Its a very unique situation, but they all seem very happy and very loved.

I have a gay male friend who had a child with a mutual friend of ours. They lead seperate lives romantically of course, but he is still very active in the childs life. They dont have a 'Set' schedule of visitation because they agreed it would be on a voluntary basis, no strings attached. He generally sees the child every other weekend and they even get together as one big family on holidays sometimes. He and his partner come over and vice versa. Its a very unique situation, but they all seem very happy and very loved.A good example of the fact that not all families have to look the same...and happiness is guaranteed by no family arrangement. It all depends on the people involved.

I have a gay male friend who had a child with a mutual friend of ours. They lead seperate lives romantically of course, but he is still very active in the childs life. They dont have a 'Set' schedule of visitation because they agreed it would be on a voluntary basis, no strings attached. He generally sees the child every other weekend and they even get together as one big family on holidays sometimes. He and his partner come over and vice versa. Its a very unique situation, but they all seem very happy and very loved.
That sounds damn beautiful.

You obviously missed the point where my friend, not wanting the total anonymity of a sperm donor (who will never meet his offspring, by law), has decided she would rather have someone who would be willing to be a part of the child's life...but not her partner.
<snip>

After reading your post #187, I agree. I missed the point.


And she would tell you to kiss her ass. Which is a suitable response to such an ignorant, judgmental and clueless rant. You have no idea what her stance is on having a relationship. You are making assumptions based in your own personal biases.
Fair enough. I's just of another opinion, which I have to adjust after I've learned more about her current job-related situation. I don't think my response was ignorant, though. Basically I'm somewhat "conservative" when it comes to relationships with children involved.
I'm once bitten, twice shy in this subject a) as a kid of divorced parents and b) as a man who impregnated a woman who aborted without letting me know ...


I think it's you who has misunderstood. Please go through the thread, and read the posts I've made about her motivation, and her desires on this matter, rather than making assumptions.

I think I understand better now. Your first post came across as "selfish", indeed.
Please accept my apologies here and good luck to your friend, even if I would not be the right one for my part to fullfill her dream :)

However, what has also come out in this thread is a knee-jerk reaction to the concept of a woman wanting to be a single mother. Oh, she must hate men. Maybe she's a lesbian. How selfish, she wants to ruin a child's life. Jesus wept.
Yeah, that's the other thing that has surprised me about this thread...there are a lot of very bitter, woman-hating men wafting around this forum, I guess. I can't believe some of the outrageous conclusions they leap to!

"She must be single because she hates all men! She thinks she OWNS the child and can FORCE it to be KEPT FROM IT'S FATHER! That evil harpy bitch!"

Yet not a whimper of complaint against the "evil bitches" who use the annonymous sperm donations at sperm banks. I guess she's only an evil bitch if she interacts with a man, gains his personal consent, and invites him to participate in the child's life.

Personally, I think their reactions are incredibly insulting toward men. These ranters seem to think that an adult male isn't capable of making a choice for himself about whether or not this is an arrangment he wants. They seem to think that no man is capable of being a good father unless he also gets to have a sexual relationship with the biological mother of the child. They seem to believe that no man would consider being a non-custodial parent, which does a disservice to all the non-custodial fathers out there who are doing wonderful jobs and being positive forces in their kids' lives.

All I know is, I would leap at the chance to do something like what your friend is proposing (if I were able to donate sperm). I am still considering donating my eggs at some point, and the arrangment your friend is looking for would be ideal from my standpoint...I would get to pass on my genes (cool), visit the kid and get to know their life (very cool), but would not have to endure pregnancy, childbirth, or child-rearing (coolest). That's a perfect scenario, for me. :)