NationStates Jolt Archive


Exorcism

Stone Bridges
21-02-2006, 08:12
One of the Catholic forums that I visit had a thread on Exorcism recently. Sometimes I wonder whether these Exorcism were real or there was another problem. Right now I am trying to find some sort of guideline set forth by The Vatican to determine if a person is truly possessed. I am a traditional Catholic. I believe in Good and Evil. I believe that there is a constance struggle through our lives to either be good, or evil. I also hate things like the Ouija Board. While I am a devoult Catholic, I do read about the Paranormal sometimes. I believe that the Ouija Board is bad news and that it can open up a world of terror and hurt for those who don't know what they are doing. So I guess I do believe that people can be possessed by demons, but I also believe that sometimes these possession cases are false and that the person was suffering from something else. What do yall think?
Cabra West
21-02-2006, 08:17
I think that demons make for good special effects in movies, and that's it.

They don't exist anywhere outside some people's perverted imagination.
NERVUN
21-02-2006, 08:25
I'm reminded of the book Good Omens, which makes the remark that the Devil and demons aren't half as inventive as humanity is when it comes to evil.

Having said that, there are more things then drempt of in your philosophy...
Straughn
21-02-2006, 09:22
I have video footage of someone being exorcised that i was inspired to write a song about, seeing as how over the footage the poor fella eventually "relapsed" and shot himself before he could inflict any damage on his wife & kids (adopted i think), and when they interviewed the wife, she spoke about how the descent came around and how when he finally chose to end his life, all she could say was "Hallelujah". That struck me different than anything else, so i committed it to memory as a pretty important song source. Not using that name, though.
I also caught some vid footage of lighter versions of "exorcisms" on another special (gotta love cable) but they didn't seem quite as sincere as the first - in the first, the guy's skin QUICKLY takes on an uncommon pallor and a split occurs on his forehead. Could've been doctored, but the image still worked well. With the second, it was a bunch of grunting and sweating and flailing arms, but nothing that anyone having a strong seizure (Tourette's, for example) wouldn't do.
My own personal opinion is partly skepticism, partly suspicion of a person's WILLINGNESS to transform, and partly a bit of dark unexplained personal experience.
Forfania Gottesleugner
21-02-2006, 09:39
One of the Catholic forums that I visit had a thread on Exorcism recently. Sometimes I wonder whether these Exorcism were real or there was another problem. Right now I am trying to find some sort of guideline set forth by The Vatican to determine if a person is truly possessed. I am a traditional Catholic. I believe in Good and Evil. I believe that there is a constance struggle through our lives to either be good, or evil. I also hate things like the Ouija Board. While I am a devoult Catholic, I do read about the Paranormal sometimes. I believe that the Ouija Board is bad news and that it can open up a world of terror and hurt for those who don't know what they are doing. So I guess I do believe that people can be possessed by demons, but I also believe that sometimes these possession cases are false and that the person was suffering from something else. What do yall think?

Ouija boards have been debunked countless times. Houdini was the most famous to do this. The boards then almost dropped out of existence until a new generation picked them back up after Houdini was dead and forgotten. It is a pychological phenomenon and not a spiritual one that controls Ouija boards. Put simply your brain can perform tasks without notifying your concious self. Thus when you put your hand on a hot stove you don't need to think about it before it is moved off. Pen and Teller's "Bullshit" show does a good job of demonstrating how this works.

If you don't want to research or believe that just realize that you can buy Ouija boards at your local toy store or make one out of paper. Sound like a spiritual tool or a common "brain teaser" type trick?
BackwoodsSquatches
21-02-2006, 10:51
Ive watched a number of documentaries on the subject, and read a couple of books, as I have both an interest in, and an aversion from religion.
Even though a staunch, dyed-in-the-wool athiest, I would be arrogant not to believe in good and evil.

The thing about most exorcisms, is that the Church officially sanctions so very few of them, that when they actually do allow one to be performed, it raises the interest of many.

I believe that most exorcisms are entirely faked by the "possessed" individual.
In most cases, you can tell the obvious fakery, simply by the poor acting skills of the recipient.

However, this cannot explain some of the more famous ones.
The recent movie "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" was a "true" story about a girl in Germany who died of a result of an exorcism peformed on her.
The question isnt so clear, as the girl may have suffered from pyschotic episodes and violent epilepsy.
However, I will say the recordings of her ceremony are truly disturbing.

My science teacher in highschool was a former monk.
He knew the priest who performed the actual ceremony that the movie "The Excorcist" was based on.
For the record, it was a boy in Georgetown, not a girl, as played by Linda Blair.
In that case, it seems possible incestuous relations with his aunt, may have played a role in the boy's mental development, and the "possession" may have been the child "acting out".

My science teacher said that no priest is allowed to speak about such rituals, and he couldnt tell me any details, but he did say that the priest in question may have been held "Hostage to the Devil".
Apparently, there are often reprocussions to dealing with the kind of evil supposedly associated with exorcisms.
He said ocassionaly the Priest would be stricken with night terrors, and even a pervasive smell of shit, that would surround him, no matter how often he bathed.

I will say that I believe 99.9 % of exorcisms performed are entirely bullshit, either fabricated by the recipient, or encouraged by the priest officiating the ceremony.

The 0.1% however, may have something more to it, than we know.
Newtsburg
21-02-2006, 10:55
A Catholic exorcism is hard to come by. It's the non-denoms that preform them at the drop of a hat.
Straughn
21-02-2006, 10:58
A Catholic exorcism is hard to come by. It's the non-denoms that preform them at the drop of a hat.
Seconded.

I've read that only one specific book is alloted for use of specifically assigned people from the Vatican to allow Catholic exorcisms (keeping the power where they want it, i guess).
That second video footage i was talking about is a good example of what Newtsberg is saying, i think.
Cabra West
21-02-2006, 11:12
I think it's amusing that it's only the Catholic church that seems to see the need for exorcisms at all... all others do just fine without it.
BackwoodsSquatches
21-02-2006, 11:13
I think it's amusing that it's only the Catholic church that seems to see the need for exorcisms at all... all others do just fine without it.


Not true.

Many different cultures and religions have ceremonies to expel demons, or spirits from the living.
Rotovia-
21-02-2006, 11:30
Before an Exorcism can be performed, three Psychiatrists must examine the 'possessed' for mental illness. Then a team of specially trained Exorcists must examine the 'possessed' to determine if the are in fact possessed. Then the Vatican must issue an official sanction.
Kamsaki
21-02-2006, 11:36
When you believe that you can invite Jesus into your body, of course you're going to believe in the possibility of posession. It sorta follows on.
Newtsburg
21-02-2006, 11:55
I think it's amusing that it's only the Catholic church that seems to see the need for exorcisms at all... all others do just fine without it.

That's kinda funny, considering the Catholic Church hardly ever sees a need of an exorcism. As I stated before, its the non-Denominational Christians that see the devil in everything.
Rotovia-
21-02-2006, 11:58
That's kinda funny, considering the Catholic Church hardly ever sees a need of an exorcism. As I stated before, its the non-Denominational Christians that see the devil in everything.
ZING!
Egg and chips
21-02-2006, 12:35
Of course demons exist! I been shooting them all morning!

Oh... you mean OUTSIDE Doom III...

Niet. Demons dont not exist, and thusly a possesion cannot occur

(And to cover my back, that is my opinion. So dont yell at me for stating it like that.)
Ratod
21-02-2006, 13:47
I wonder if its possible for an evil act to 'infect' a certain place.Comming from Ireland we have countless ghost stories and the like but some such as the story of Leap Castle and Loftus Hall(where a catholic sancioned exorcisim has been carried out) are a little un nerving to say the least.And what about documented cases of unexplained phenomem???Maybe its just something science has to figure out yet and the human mind is a powerful thing when it comes to scaring us!!
BackwoodsSquatches
21-02-2006, 13:48
I wonder if its possible for an evil act to 'infect' a certain place.Comming from Ireland we have countless ghost stories and the like but some such as the story of Leap Castle and Loftus Hall(where a catholic sancioned exorcisim has been carried out) are a little un nerving to say the least.And what about documented cases of unexplained phenomem???Maybe its just something science has to figure out yet and the human mind is a powerful thing when it comes to scaring us!!


Castle Leap = Fuggin spooky.
Ratod
21-02-2006, 14:08
Castle Leap = Fuggin spooky.
I have been in both as I have a curiosity with these things and Leap just made me feel uneasy but then again so do churches.I was never sure if it was just my mind playing tricks there.I can however say that I have been in places where I felt really uneasy and have only been told afterwards that there was a 'history' to the place.Loftus Hall was one.
Stone Bridges
21-02-2006, 15:12
Before an Exorcism can be performed, three Psychiatrists must examine the 'possessed' for mental illness. Then a team of specially trained Exorcists must examine the 'possessed' to determine if the are in fact possessed. Then the Vatican must issue an official sanction.

Ahh thanks, So the church does have a system, cool. It's very rare for a Catholic priest to perform an exocrism nowanddays, I've met about 20 fathers in my lifetime and not one has performed an exocrism.
Ratod
21-02-2006, 16:45
Sorry for the whole copy and paste thingy.Just for anybody who is intrested.How to preform an exorcisim...Amyone think this may work on Emo music/James Blunt/Boy Bands?

The Roman Catholic Exorcism
Translated from the Rituale Romanum
First published in the reign of Paul V

The priest, robed in surplice and violet stole, one end of which is placed round the neck of the possessed person, bound if he is violent, sprinkles those present with holy water. Then the service begins.

1. The Litany.
2. Psalm 54 ('Save me, O God, by Thy name').
3. Adjuration imploring God's grace for the proposed exorcism against the 'wicked dragon' and a caution to the possessing spirit to 'tell me thy name, the day, and the hour of thy going out by some sign.'
4. The Gospel (John I; and/or Mark XVI; Luke X; Luke XI).
5. Preparatory Prayer.
Then the priest, protecting himself and the possessed by the sign of the cross, placing part of his stole round the neck and placing his right hand on the head of the possessed, resolutely and with great faith shall say what follows.

6. First Exorcism:
'I exorcise thee, most vile spirit, the very embodiment of our enemy, the entire specter, the whole legion, in the name of Jesus Christ, to † get out and flee from this creature of God ††.

'He Himself commands thee, who has ordered those cast down from the heights of heaven to the depths of the earth. He commands thee, he who commanded the sea, the winds, and the tempests.

'Hear therefore and fear, O Satan, enemy of the faith, foe to the human race, producer of death, thief of life, destroyer of justice, root of evils, kindler of vices, seducer of men, betrayer of nations, inciter of envy, origin of avarice, cause of discord, procurer of sorrows. Why dost thou stand and resist, when thou knowest that Christ the Lord will destroy they strength? Fear him who was immolated in Isaac, sold in Joseph, slain in the lamb, crucified in man, and then was triumphant over hell.

(The signs of the cross † should be made on the forehead of the possessed.)

'Depart therefore in the name of the † Father, and of the † Son, and of the Holy † Ghost; give place to the Holy Ghost, by the sign of the † Cross of Jesus Christ our Lord, who with the Father and the same Holy Ghost liveth and reigneth one God, for ever and ever, world without end.'

7. Prayer for Success, and making the signs of the cross over the demoniac.
8. Second Exorcism.
'I adjure thee, thou old serpent, by the judge of the quick and the dead, by thy maker and the maker of the world, by him who has power to send thee to hell, that thou depart quickly from this servant of God, N. (name of the possessed), who returns to the bosom of the Church, with fear and the affliction of thy terror. I adjure the again († on his forehead), not in my infirmity, but by the virtue of the Holy Ghost, that thou depart from this servant of God, N., whom Almighty God hath made in his own image.

'Yield therefore; yield not to me, but to the minister of Christ. For his power urges thee, who subjugated thee to his cross. Tremble at his arm, who led the souls to light after the lamentations of hell had been subdued. May the body of man be a terror to thee († on his chest), let the image of God be terrible to thee († on his forehead). Resist not, neither delay to flee from this man, since it has pleased Christ to dwell in this body. And, although thou knowest me to be none the less a sinner, do not think me contemptible.

'For it is God who commands thee †.
'The majesty of Christ commands thee †.
'God the Father commands thee †.
'God the Son commands thee †.
'God the Holy Ghost commands thee †.
'The sacred cross commands thee †.
'The faith of the holy apostles Peter and Paul and of all other saints commands thee †.
'The blood of the martyrs commands thee †.
'The constancy of the confessors commands thee †.
'The devout intercession of all saints commands thee †.
'The virtue of the mysteries of the Christian faith commands thee †.
'Go out, therefore, thou transgressor. Go out, thou seducer, full of all deceit and guile, enemy of virtue, persecutor of innocence. O most dire one, give place; give place, thou most impious; give place to Christ, in whom thou hast found nothing of thy works, who hath despoiled thee, who hath destroyed thy kingdom, who hath led thee captive and hath plundered thy goods, who hath cast thee into outer darkness, where for thee and they ministers is prepared annihilation.

'But why, truculent one, dost thou withstand? Why, rash creature, dost thou refuse?

'Thou art accused by Almighty God, whose statues thou hast transgressed.

'Thou art accused by his Son, Jesus Christ, our Lord, whom thou didst dare to tempt and presume to crucify.

'Thou art accused by the human race, to whom by the persuasion thou hast given to drink the poison of death.

'Therefore I adjure thee, most wicked dragon in the name of the † immaculate lamb, who trod upon the asp and basilisk, who trampled the lion and dragon, to depart from this man († let the sign be made on his forehead), to depart from the Church of God († let the sign be made on those standing by). Tremble and flee at the invocation of the name of that Lord at whom hell trembles, to whom the virtues of heaven, the powers and dominions are subject, whom cherubim and seraphim with unwearied voices praise, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God of Sabbath.

'The word made flesh † commands thee.
'He who was born of the Virgin † commands thee.
'Jesus of Nazareth commands thee, who, although thou dids despise his disciples, bade thee go, crushed and prostrate, out of the man, and in his presence, when he had separated thee from the man, thou didst not presume to go into a herd of swine.
'Therefore, adjured now in his † name, depart from this man, whom he has created. It is hard for thee to wish to resist. It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks †. Because the more slowly thou go out, the more the punishment against thee increases, since thou despisest not men but him who is Lord of the quick and dead, who shall come to judge the quick and the dead and the world by fire.'

9. Prayer for Success.
10. Third and Final Exorcism:
'Therefore, I adjure thee, most vile of spirits, the entire specter, the very embodiment of Satan, in the name of Jesus Christ † of Nazareth, who, after his baptism in Jordan, was led into the wilderness and overcame thee in thine own habitations, that thou stop assaulting him whom he hath formed from the dust of the earth to the honor of his glory, and that thou tremble not at the human weakness in miserable man but at the image of Almighty God.

'Therefore, yield to God, who by his servant Moses drowned thee and thy malice in Pharoah and in his army in the abyss.

'Yield to God, who made thee flee when expelled from King Saul with spiritual songs through his most faithful servant, David.

'Yield to God † who condemned thee in Judas Iscariot the traitor. For he beats thee with divine † scourges, in whose sight, trembling and crying out with thy legions, thou hast said: What are thou to us, O Jesus, Son of the most high God? Art thou come hither to torture us before our time? He presses on thee with perpetual flames, who shall say at the end of time to the wicked: Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels.

'For thee, impious one, and for thy angels are prepared worms which never die.

'For thee and thy angels is prepared the unquenchable fire; because thou art the chief of accursed murder, thou art the author of incest, the head of sacrilege, the master of the worst actions, the teacher of heretics, the inventor of all obscenities. Therefore, O impious one, go out. Go out, thou scoundrel, go out with all thy deceits, because God has willed that man be his temple.

'But why dost thou delay longer here?

'Give honor to God, the Father Almighty, to whom every knee is bent.

'Give place to the Lord Jesus Christ † who shed for man his most precious blood.

'Give place to the Holy Ghost, who through his blessed apostle Peter manifestly struck thee in Simon Magnus, who condemned thy deceit in Ananias and Sapphira, who smote thee in Herod the King because he did not give God honor, who through his apostle Paul destroyed thee in the magician Elymas by the mist of blindness, and through the same apostle by his word of command bade thee come out of the pythoness.

'Now therefore depart. † Depart, thou seducer. Thy abode is the wilderness, thy habitation is the serpent. Be humbled and prostrate. Now there is no time to delay. For behold the Lord God approaches quickly, and his fire will glow before him and precede him and burn up his enemies on every side. For if thou hast deceived man, thou canst not mock God.

'He expels thee, from whose eye nothing is secret.
'He expels thee, to whose power all things are subject.
'He excludes thee, who has prepared for thee and thy angels everlasting hell; out of whose mouth the sharp sword will go, he who shall come to judge the quick and the dead and the world by fire.'
11. Final Prayers, including canticles, creed, and various psalms.

† is used for the 'signs of the cross' in this text
Dark Shadowy Nexus
21-02-2006, 18:05
Exorsism has no basis in reality.

while I believe in communications with unkown intelligense through the use of ouija boards I do not believe in the risks or in the typical explainations as to way they sometimes work.

As a matter of fact while I acknowledge the existance of the unkown such as remote viewing, ghosts, etc. I doubt many of the typical explanations for them.