NationStates Jolt Archive

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong. I write for my college papers, and one of the articles I was writing for the march issuse was the Muslium cartoon controversty. Well I talked to him, and the issuse of Islam and was it a religion of peace. He pulled out the Koran (english verison) and showed me the full text. Boy was my face red. I then started to reflect on the people on my side. Fred Phelps, Pat Roberston etc, and I realize that people like Osama did what I did with my "Is Islam a religion of peace?" thread, people like Osama basically chopped up the Koran to fit their own sick twisted desires.

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me. You know, Jesus Christ always taught us to fess up to our miskates and to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive other. I would hope that the muslium here on this form would find it in their heart to forgive me for my ingorant and uninformed opinion of the Muslium faith. That is all.

Dum dum dum, another one bites the dust.

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong. I write for my college papers, and one of the articles I was writing for the march issuse was the Muslium cartoon controversty. Well I talked to him, and the issuse of Islam and was it a religion of peace. He pulled out the Koran (english verison) and showed me the full text. Boy was my face red. I then started to reflect on the people on my side. Fred Phelps, Pat Roberston etc, and I realize that people like Osama did what I did with my "Is Islam a religion of peace?" thread, people like Osama basically chopped up the Koran to fit their own sick twisted desires.

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me. You know, Jesus Christ always taught us to fess up to our miskates and to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive other. I would hope that the muslium here on this form would find it in their heart to forgive me for my ingorant and uninformed opinion of the Muslium faith. That is all.
It takes courage to admit our mistakes.
It takes humility to ask for forgiveness.
It takes love to forgive.

Three excellent human qualities. May you always possess them in abundance. :)

I respect that all real muslims and the real muslim religion is a religion of peace. I apologize for joining in the Generalizations also.

yay, welcome to the land of enlightened discussion you can now enjoy;)

Good man, I made sure to post your apology along with your former words, although I wish more people would step up.

Ummm...maybe I'm in the minority here but all religions are evil, is it good I'm an equal oppurtunity hater?

;)

Your apology show humility, wisdom, and courage.

NSers don't oft admit their errs, especially big ones.

Kudos to you for your change of heart and apology.

Good for you... a little tolerance never did anyone harm.

Uh, and it's Muslim... no u :D

Good on ya! An open mind is a healthy mind. And this kind of apology shows strength of character. :)

Nice. That takes guts.
I just always stayed true to what my Muslim friend told me. I trusted her enough to accept what she was saying. She just basically said: "I hate all those extremist fucks. They make Islam look like shit". So yea, shes got the right idea :)

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong. I write for my college papers, and one of the articles I was writing for the march issuse was the Muslium cartoon controversty. Well I talked to him, and the issuse of Islam and was it a religion of peace. He pulled out the Koran (english verison) and showed me the full text. Boy was my face red. I then started to reflect on the people on my side. Fred Phelps, Pat Roberston etc, and I realize that people like Osama did what I did with my "Is Islam a religion of peace?" thread, people like Osama basically chopped up the Koran to fit their own sick twisted desires.
Did you read the entire Koran, or was what you read "chopped up" to fit the claim that Islam is a religion of peace? The reality is that it is both - that, as with the Bible, you can quite legitimately pick whichever message you like from it. The reality is also that Islam was first spread by war, under the generalship of Muhammad himself

Most Muslims, like most other people, are decent peace-loving people, and will see the peaceful side of their religion; but as long as their holy scripture contains any advocacy of violence it will also inspire some people to violence.

Congrats on digging a little deeper and finding out the truth. :)
People do the same thing with the Bible, carving it up to prove what they want to prove.
All the religions I've seen were based on peace, but hardly any of them have practiced peace throughout their histories.
If only they would...

Ummm...maybe I'm in the minority here but all religions are evil, is it good I'm an equal oppurtunity hater?

;)
Yes, that's how it's supposed to be done, but everyone always gets love confused for hate. Damn opposites being so damn similar...(grumble, grumble):p

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong. I write for my college papers, and one of the articles I was writing for the march issuse was the Muslium cartoon controversty. Well I talked to him, and the issuse of Islam and was it a religion of peace. He pulled out the Koran (english verison) and showed me the full text. Boy was my face red. I then started to reflect on the people on my side. Fred Phelps, Pat Roberston etc, and I realize that people like Osama did what I did with my "Is Islam a religion of peace?" thread, people like Osama basically chopped up the Koran to fit their own sick twisted desires.

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me. You know, Jesus Christ always taught us to fess up to our miskates and to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive other. I would hope that the muslium here on this form would find it in their heart to forgive me for my ingorant and uninformed opinion of the Muslium faith. That is all.

The same thing is done with the Bible all the time. Don't feel bad. Certain sects of Christianity are completely based on biblical exerpts that have been taken in the reader's own twisted way. Or at least thats what this pamphlet I have in my hand from a random I met at a bus stop seems to be showing me... :rolleyes:

Yay, you're a big man Stones.

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong. I write for my college papers, and one of the articles I was writing for the march issuse was the Muslium cartoon controversty. Well I talked to him, and the issuse of Islam and was it a religion of peace. He pulled out the Koran (english verison) and showed me the full text. Boy was my face red. I then started to reflect on the people on my side. Fred Phelps, Pat Roberston etc, and I realize that people like Osama did what I did with my "Is Islam a religion of peace?" thread, people like Osama basically chopped up the Koran to fit their own sick twisted desires.

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me. You know, Jesus Christ always taught us to fess up to our miskates and to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive other. I would hope that the muslium here on this form would find it in their heart to forgive me for my ingorant and uninformed opinion of the Muslium faith. That is all.
I would like to extend my appreciations for your post. Quite a few other posters have stated their appreciation as well, and i hope that my post echoes something of what they are hoping to express as well.
It takes a lot of honor to post like this. *bows*

Wow. Could this mean the end of NS?

Wow. Could this mean the end of NS?

*Cue violin music.*

Islam is not a religion of peace. It never was meant to be. The main difference between christianity and islam is that in the bible people are encouraged to follow the light of the lord and practise peace. The quote about "turning the other cheek" springs to mind. Yes the old testament contains some very violent stuff, but in the new testament Jesus' teaching basically said differently. Thus, the whole bible comes together as a book about how humanity evolves over time and becomes more enlightened as the follow the path of the lord, from a people constantly at war, to a people practising peace and follow the teachings of jesus. Another difference is that the bible is known as a collection of books written by MEN to express the words and teachings of the lord.

Islam is totally different. Muslims consider the words of the Koran to be descended from Allah himself, as read by Muhammed. Therefore, because the words of the Koran are straight from Allah's mouth, they are required to be interpreted literally, always. If you had read the koran thoroughly, you would notice all the parts about killing / dismembering / etc of non believers. It is written in the koran to give less belief to the words of non believers than to believers. This has gotton "non believer's", i.e christians , jews, and others killed for accusations made against them because when they defend themselves their words are not allowed to be given much weight. And has anyone here paid attention to the fatwa by an Iranian cleric this weekend saying Iran has the right to nuke anyone (Israel) whenever they want to preserve their security?

And has anone ever noticed the parts of the koran encouraging the slavery and abuse of women? Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini himself encouraged muslims to "ensure their daughter's first blood (first menstrusation) is in the house of another". I'm sorry but don't girls menstruate around 11 or12 yrs old? Oh yeah, and didn't the hig and mighty PROPHET himself have a preteen girl as one of his wives? A study was done in pakistan a few years ago and it turns out that almost all preteen / teen girls were already married or betrothed. Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

You liberals make me sick. Stop drinking the kool aid, spewing words that "enlightened" people have told you, and dig up the truth for once in your miserable, pathetic lives.

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong. I write for my college papers, and one of the articles I was writing for the march issuse was the Muslium cartoon controversty. Well I talked to him, and the issuse of Islam and was it a religion of peace. He pulled out the Koran (english verison) and showed me the full text. Boy was my face red. I then started to reflect on the people on my side. Fred Phelps, Pat Roberston etc, and I realize that people like Osama did what I did with my "Is Islam a religion of peace?" thread, people like Osama basically chopped up the Koran to fit their own sick twisted desires.

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me. You know, Jesus Christ always taught us to fess up to our miskates and to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive other. I would hope that the muslium here on this form would find it in their heart to forgive me for my ingorant and uninformed opinion of the Muslium faith. That is all.Eèèèxcellent...

The same thing is done with the Bible all the time. Don't feel bad. Certain sects of Christianity are completely based on biblical exerpts that have been taken in the reader's own twisted way. Or at least thats what this pamphlet I have in my hand from a random I met at a bus stop seems to be showing me... :rolleyes:

I hate it when those Chicktians force those upon me. At least the Watchtower publications don't overtly claim that everyone else is going to hell.

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong. I write for my college papers, and one of the articles I was writing for the march issuse was the Muslium cartoon controversty. Well I talked to him, and the issuse of Islam and was it a religion of peace. He pulled out the Koran (english verison) and showed me the full text. Boy was my face red. I then started to reflect on the people on my side. Fred Phelps, Pat Roberston etc, and I realize that people like Osama did what I did with my "Is Islam a religion of peace?" thread, people like Osama basically chopped up the Koran to fit their own sick twisted desires.

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me. You know, Jesus Christ always taught us to fess up to our miskates and to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive other. I would hope that the muslium here on this form would find it in their heart to forgive me for my ingorant and uninformed opinion of the Muslium faith. That is all.
http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Islam is not a religion of peace. It never was meant to be. The main difference between christianity and islam is that in the bible people are encouraged to follow the light of the lord and practise peace. The quote about "turning the other cheek" springs to mind. Yes the old testament contains some very violent stuff, but in the new testament Jesus' teaching basically said differently. Thus, the whole bible comes together as a book about how humanity evolves over time and becomes more enlightened as the follow the path of the lord, from a people constantly at war, to a people practising peace and follow the teachings of jesus. Another difference is that the bible is known as a collection of books written by MEN to express the words and teachings of the lord.

Islam is totally different. Muslims consider the words of the Koran to be descended from Allah himself, as read by Muhammed. Therefore, because the words of the Koran are straight from Allah's mouth, they are required to be interpreted literally, always. If you had read the koran thoroughly, you would notice all the parts about killing / dismembering / etc of non believers. It is written in the koran to give less belief to the words of non believers than to believers. This has gotton "non believer's", i.e christians , jews, and others killed for accusations made against them because when they defend themselves their words are not allowed to be given much weight. And has anyone here paid attention to the fatwa by an Iranian cleric this weekend saying Iran has the right to nuke anyone (Israel) whenever they want to preserve their security?

And has anone ever noticed the parts of the koran encouraging the slavery and abuse of women? Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini himself encouraged muslims to "ensure their daughter's first blood (first menstrusation) is in the house of another". I'm sorry but don't girls menstruate around 11 or12 yrs old? Oh yeah, and didn't the hig and mighty PROPHET himself have a preteen girl as one of his wives? A study was done in pakistan a few years ago and it turns out that almost all preteen / teen girls were already married or betrothed. Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

You liberals make me sick. Stop drinking the kool aid, spewing words that "enlightened" people have told you, and dig up the truth for once in your miserable, pathetic lives.

Me? A liberal? I'm about as conservative as you can get, and I know that Islam is a religion of peace. The Torah has passages in it that can be interpeted as to allow the slavery of women. Are we to then conclude that Judaism, and thus Christianity are evil?

Nice rant though.

Islam is not a religion of peace. It never was meant to be. The main difference between christianity and islam is that in the bible people are encouraged to follow the light of the lord and practise peace. The quote about "turning the other cheek" springs to mind. Yes the old testament contains some very violent stuff, but in the new testament Jesus' teaching basically said differently. Thus, the whole bible comes together as a book about how humanity evolves over time and becomes more enlightened as the follow the path of the lord, from a people constantly at war, to a people practising peace and follow the teachings of jesus. Another difference is that the bible is known as a collection of books written by MEN to express the words and teachings of the lord.

Islam is totally different. Muslims consider the words of the Koran to be descended from Allah himself, as read by Muhammed. Therefore, because the words of the Koran are straight from Allah's mouth, they are required to be interpreted literally, always. If you had read the koran thoroughly, you would notice all the parts about killing / dismembering / etc of non believers. It is written in the koran to give less belief to the words of non believers than to believers. This has gotton "non believer's", i.e christians , jews, and others killed for accusations made against them because when they defend themselves their words are not allowed to be given much weight. And has anyone here paid attention to the fatwa by an Iranian cleric this weekend saying Iran has the right to nuke anyone (Israel) whenever they want to preserve their security?

And has anone ever noticed the parts of the koran encouraging the slavery and abuse of women? Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini himself encouraged muslims to "ensure their daughter's first blood (first menstrusation) is in the house of another". I'm sorry but don't girls menstruate around 11 or12 yrs old? Oh yeah, and didn't the hig and mighty PROPHET himself have a preteen girl as one of his wives? A study was done in pakistan a few years ago and it turns out that almost all preteen / teen girls were already married or betrothed. Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

You liberals make me sick. Stop drinking the kool aid, spewing words that "enlightened" people have told you, and dig up the truth for once in your miserable, pathetic lives.You only have a problem with your dichotomy of criticism.
If you were so enlightened, you'd understand how you can't have the new testament without the old one and all its horrors. That has been covered AD NAUSEUM by people probably quite a bit more talented and educated than yourself. You can drop that tired, whiny "liberal" bullsh*t, the Rush Limblob references .... but keep the self-loathing that you attempt to extrovert, to yourself ... in the dark where it belongs.
Or you could grow just a smidge, bother to READ the Old Testament IN ITS ENTIRETY and compare it to the Koran, and then you'll have something somewhat relevant to say. And then still, i doubt you'd be as mature as Stone Bridges is when he says what he says on this thread, THE ACTUAL POINT (not to be derailed by infantile attacks on political parties someone can't understand).

You're a total rube. Research the subject for yourself--Islam and its prophet are about as far from "peaceful" as it gets.

You're a total rube. Research the subject for yourself--Islam and its prophet are about as far from "peaceful" as it gets.

Well--at least you used the proper form of "you're."

Well--at least you used the proper form of "you're."

...While you seem to be using a dash where a comma would be better suited.

You only have a problem with your dichotomy of criticism.
If you were so enlightened, you'd understand how you can't have the new testament without the old one and all its horrors.

I go to a Catholic school. I take a class called "Religion and Society." My teacher tells us that the primary book is the New Testament and the Old Testament is just background and story telling. I believe him over you.

I'm glad to see another person has come to their senses and not given into the rampant hysteria and Islam-bashing that some people seem to think is right these days. Islam is a religion of peace - yeah it has some violent passages, but hell the Bible does as well - and only a few extremists have made it so vilified.

I'm glad to see another person has come to their senses and not given into the rampant hysteria and Islam-bashing that some people seem to think is right these days. Islam is a religion of peace - yeah it has some violent passages, but hell the Bible does as well - and only a few extremists have made it so vilified.

I've never seen a respectable person sink so low. SB, that it.

I go to a Catholic school. I take a class called "Religion and Society." My teacher tells us that the primary book is the New Testament and the Old Testament is just background and story telling. I believe him over you.

The OT is the basis on which the NT is built. Without OT, no NT. Regarding it as merely background to the religion is not sufficient.
Btw, if it was only a bit of background and storytelling, why do you think it would form half of Christianity's Holy Bible?

I've never seen a respectable person sink so low. SB, that it.

Coming from someone who advocates violence to Muslims, believes all people in the Middle East should be called 'Arabs' and who believes that Islam is a completely violent religion - and who won't do any reading that might suggest otherwise - that means absolutely nothing.

Coming from someone who advocates violence to Muslims, believes all people in the Middle East should be called 'Arabs' and who believes that Islam is a completely violent religion - and who won't do any reading that might suggest otherwise - that means absolutely nothing.

Actually, I would go as far as taking it for a compliment.

Actually, I would go as far as taking it for a compliment.

Hmmm? How so?

Many non-muslims dont actually see muslims practising faith etc (i dont know) because the media does not plaster it in our faces but as for extremeists like Osmama he deliberatly sends out videos of talk of...i dont know but the point is we only see a few muslims like Osama talking of war and we associate all muslims to this, which is a human but unneccessary mistake. muslims will know more about their religion then non-muslims natrually and take offence because most muslims are not extremists but maybe you should be blaming Osama for sort of givin you a bad name...i am providing room for argument and i know we shouldnt judge all muslims by Osama but we dont really know what (dare i say it) 'normal' muslims are like. :confused: any insight would be helpful to more understanding.

Oh and well done to admitting to a common falut like that. its hard to say 'yes i am wrong' for many and it shows what a great leader you could be:)

P.S. sorry for spellin mistakes, not intentional, just lazy and stupid:D

Hmmm? How so?

Losing his "respect" just has to be a good thing.

Losing his "respect" just has to be a good thing.

Ahhhh, I see now. Yes, yes, excellent.

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me. You know, Jesus Christ always taught us to fess up to our miskates and to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive other. I would hope that the muslium here on this form would find it in their heart to forgive me for my ingorant and uninformed opinion of the Muslium faith. That is all.
*observes rise in 'faith in humanity' indicator * (That's the second time in two months -maybe NSGeneralites aren't as stubborn as they can sometimes appear.)

...While you seem to be using a dash where a comma would be better suited.

And yet it still follows the rules of English grammar.

Your thread gives me hopes that's still posible to share ths world in peace.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one"

John Lennon

as long as humans exist, there will be no peace.


7 Myths About Islam
By Timothy R. Furnish
Mr. Furnish, Ph.D (Islamic History), is Assistant Professor, History, Georgia Perimeter College, Dunwoody, GA 30338. Mr. Furnish is the author of Holiest Wars: Islamic Mahdis, their Jihads and Osama bin Laden (Praeger, 2005).



One of the few positive effects of 9/11 has been renewed American interest in Islam and the Middle East. Unfortunately, much of the information disseminated in the media about those topics is ignorant and misleading. This is unfortunate because any hope that the predominantly-Christian West and the Muslim world might transcend conflict requires that the former be accurately informed about the latter (and vice-versa, but that’s an issue for another column). There are in particular seven myths about Islam and Islamic history that have been repeated so often in the media that they’ve achieved conventional wisdom status.

First, it is untrue that Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. (Mormonism and Scientology also claim this, but few outside of Salt Lake City and Hollywood believe it.) As Philip Jenkins of Penn State University demonstrates in his work Christianity—in particular Pentecostalism—is the world’s most-rapidly growing faith. Currently there are 2 billion Christians and 1.3 billion Muslims (out of a world population of 6 billion), and in the 21st century Christianity will maintain its lead, thanks to explosive growth in sub-Saharan Africa and China.

Second, despite the claims of even President Bush in a number of public statements, Islam is not solely a “religion of peace.” Yes, there are verses of toleration in the Qur’an: Sura(chapter) al-Baqarah:256 says “there shall be no compulsion in religion;” Sura al-Furqan:65ff says that Allah will be merciful to those who repent and do good works; and Sura al-Nisa’:19ff enjoins Muslim men to provide financially for wives and ex-wives. But verses such as these are arguably outweighed by others: Sura Anfal:12ff and Sura Muhammad:3ff command the beheading of unbelievers; Sura al-Nisa’:34ff allows for beating of one’s wives and in verses 74ff and 94ff, promises great reward for those who die fighting for Allah; Sura al-Ma’idah:51 says “Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends.” Of course there are violent sections in the Bible—or at least in the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament (Joshua and David were military leaders as much as religious ones). But no one denies that, as many—both Muslim and non-Muslim—deny these violent and misogynistic passages in the Qur’an. Many arguments can be made against such verses (they must be contextualized, they are applicable only to that time, they are metaphorical, etc.) but one cannot say they do not exist. Someone who simply rehashs that “the Qur’an teaches peace” obviously hasn’t read it. No doubt most Muslims do not read the passages about decapitation as a blueprint for today. But just as some Christians take literally, for example, the command of to Christ handle poisonous snakes (Luke 10:19), some Muslims take literally the injunction to behead unbelievers. And the latter practice is a bit more injurious to other folks than the former.

Third on the misinformation parade is the allegation that jihad does not mean holy war. This falsehood crops up often in text books and in the media, where the politically-correct tirelessly repeat that jihad actually means only “striving to be a good Muslim.” This is half-right. But early on in Islamic history, jihad came to mean fighting against unbelievers in order to expand the territory under Muslim rule. al-Bukhari lived in the 9th century CE and was the most authoritative compiler of sayings attributed to the prophet Muhammad; he mentions jihad many times as meaning “holy war.” Jihad as “Muslim piety” is mainly the province of the Sufis, the mystics of Islam, and has become a minority view today. Furthermore, Islamic history is chock-full of leaders declaring jihads against their enemies—even the moderately Muslim Ottoman Empire declared a holy war against the French, British and Russians in World War I!

Fourth is the whopper that Islam spread peacefully from Arabia, as if the followers of Muhammad went door-to-door ringing doorbells and handing out brochures. From the mid-7th century CE Muslims militarily overran regions and then pressured the conquered to convert. (Yes, Christian kingdoms did the same—but, again, no one denies that!) Muslim Arab armies destroyed the entire Persian Empire (modern Iran), replacing its official Zoroastrian religion; about the same time they invaded the surviving Christian Roman (Byzantine) Empire and within a few decades had taken half its territory. In 732 CE a Muslim army from Morocco was in France! By 750 CE Muslims ruled from the Iberian Peninula to India. And Muslim armies would stay on the offensive for the next millennium, with only two exceptions: the “Reconquista” in Iberia and the Crusades.

The fifth tiresome myth is that the European Catholic Crusaders started the war with Islam and that for eight centuries Muslims have been brooding over the horrible injustices thereof. Actually, the Crusades, 1095-1291, were simply the first time that European Christians managed to take the fight to their enemy’s territory. And besides: why are the Crusades being constantly used as a club with which to beat the West—remember the scathing attacks on President Bush when, not long after 9/11, he referred to a “crusade” against terrorism?—when the Muslims won? Usama bin Ladin’s constant references to Americans as “Crusaders” is thus a perfect marriage of historical illiteracy with keen psychological insight into his enemy’s self-hate.

Another fairy tale about Islam is that poverty produces terrorists. This hoary myth tells us more about the worldview of its American adherents than it does about the ranks of the Islamists. Most of the 9/11 and London bombers were university-educated and at least middle-class. The same is true for Palestinian suicide bombers and most likely those in Iraq. Naive Americans take their domestic paradigm about poverty and crime—that the former causes the latter—and apply it to a context where it doesn’t fit Regarding the recent London bombings, a British terrorism expert said that “socioeconomic background does not appear to [have] play[ed] a role.” Poverty may be necessary, but it is hardly sufficient, to explain Islamic terrorism.

And finally, we have politically-correct mendacity number seven, which even British Prime Minister Tony Blair recently repeated: that Islam has been “hijacked” by terrorists. In this view Bin Ladin, the ayatollahs in Iran, the former Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, the Saudis with their Wahhabism (a particularly puritanical brand of Sunni Islam)—all are twisting a “moderate” religion to suit their purpose. The “Islam = peace” brigade essentializes Islam as peaceful. UBL essentializes it as jihad. Although there are Qur’an verses, and sayings of Muhammad, on both sides, many do support Bin Ladin and his ilk. Also, Islamic history is replete with Muslim scholars whom the modern Islamic fundamentalists draw upon. The most famous is Ibn Taymiyah who, 700 years before George Bush said “you’re either for us or against us,” divided the world into the domain of Islam and that of war. The only good ruler is a Muslim ruler, asserted Ibn Taymiyah. And by that he meant one that enforces shari`ah, or Islamic law. Most Muslims do not agree, but some do. (And only 10 percent of 1.3 billion is 130 million.) But it is no use pretending that the UBLs of the world have falsely “hijacked” Islam. Indeed, their view of the faith—however intolerant and violent it may seem—has a basis in Islamic theology and history.

Islam is where Christianity was before the Thirty Years War (1618-1648) and then the Enlightenment led the West to divorce religion and state, thereby removing (mostly) the threat of religious-based warfare. As a fellow monotheist with Muslims, I pray that the moderate strands within Islam win out over the more fundamentalist ones, allowing that civilization to follow suit. And for we in the West to help with that, we need to open our eyes to the reality of the harsher aspects of Islam and Islamic history. Anything else is simple—and dangerous—self-deception.

Meh.

If you were truly open minded and remorseful for your bigotry filled posts, you would have never made them in the first place.
You can claim to turn over as many leaves as you wish, but your religious intolerance speaks volumes about your character.

I told you before, in a different post you have no business giving spiritual advice to others, this is why.
You probably posted this, so we dont assume you are possessed with as much hate as you really are, and maybe even to show how truly benevolent you would like to be...I aint buying it.

You show little in the way of experience with humans, outside your family, particularly, in the areas of love and relationships...how as a priest, could you counsel others, when you have no life experience of your own to base it on?
Lifes answers are not always found in musty old tomes, and advice to those who truly need it, must be given through the wisdom of experience.

If you well and truly are sorry for your earlier spew, then do something positive with that guilt.

Most of the 9/11 and London bombers were university-educated and at least middle-class. The same is true for Palestinian suicide bombers and most likely those in Iraq.
I call bullshit right there. Which university do you suppose people from Palestinian refugee camps attended? And are you aware what "middle class" means in an area with less than a thousand bucks GDP per capita (as the Gaza strip is)?

Another fairy tale about Islam is that poverty produces terrorists.
What the hell? :confused: I'm missing the connection here...

If you were truly open minded and remorseful for your bigotry filled posts, you would have never made them in the first place.


In a perfect world, we would all be farting sunshines and kittens, but as I've always said throughout my time here, humans are falliable.


You can claim to turn over as many leaves as you wish, but your religious intolerance speaks volumes about your character.

And realizing that I was preaching intolerance, and to apologize for that, and to ask for forgiveness also speak for my character.


I told you before, in a different post you have no business giving spiritual advice to others, this is why.


Well that is your opinion, and you're welcome to it. However, I must remind you that I am trying to submit to God's will.


You probably posted this, so we dont assume you are possessed with as much hate as you really are, and maybe even to show how truly benevolent you would like to be...I aint buying it.

Eh, can't please everyone, all I can do is realize that I am human, I am falliable, and that even though I try to walk in the path of Jesus Christ I have fallen short and I always will fall short. All I can do is get up and try again.


You show little in the way of experience with humans, outside your family, particularly, in the areas of love and relationships...


Two girlfriends, friends at the airport and some at my college.


how as a priest, could you counsel others, when you have no life experience of your own to base it on?


That whats the seminary is for. Also I would be basing my advices on not only The holy Bible, but what I see is the best possible solution. While you may sit there and claim that I have no right to be a father, I say that I do. I will be guided by the holy spirit.


Lifes answers are not always found in musty old tomes, and advice to those who truly need it, must be given through the wisdom of experience. Hence why there's no 25 year old Fathers. You DO realize I have to go through 4 years of seminary right? I mean the Catholic Church isn't just going to throw a black robe on me and just say go help the people. Also many Fathers have been to other countries to help them out. I plan on doing the same thing. I plan on going to South America for 2-3 years to help them out.


If you well and truly are sorry for your earlier spew, then do something positive with that guilt.

Hence why I talked to the muslium about my newspaper article, I wanted to give as much of a balance news in my article as I can.

It takes courage to admit our mistakes.
It takes humility to ask for forgiveness.
It takes love to forgive.

Three excellent human qualities. May you always possess them in abundance. :)
Said better then I could

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental.

No harm, no foul.

The unexamined life is not worth living. We all have to learn. Thank you.

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong. I write for my college papers, and one of the articles I was writing for the march issuse was the Muslium cartoon controversty. Well I talked to him, and the issuse of Islam and was it a religion of peace. He pulled out the Koran (english verison) and showed me the full text. Boy was my face red. I then started to reflect on the people on my side. Fred Phelps, Pat Roberston etc, and I realize that people like Osama did what I did with my "Is Islam a religion of peace?" thread, people like Osama basically chopped up the Koran to fit their own sick twisted desires.

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me. You know, Jesus Christ always taught us to fess up to our miskates and to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive other. I would hope that the muslium here on this form would find it in their heart to forgive me for my ingorant and uninformed opinion of the Muslium faith. That is all.

Why apologise for having a point of view against the majority?

Why apologise for having a point of view against the majority?

Because said view is hateful, disgusting and above all factually wrong. Plus it only aids the hatemongers and those who believe that Islam wants to destroy Europe and rule the world.

Who the fuck are the Musliums?

Because said view is hateful, disgusting and above all factually wrong. Plus it only aids the hatemongers and those who believe that Islam wants to destroy Europe and rule the world.

So... Your point is?

just because a view is against the will of the majority dosn't mean it's any worse.

A winner is a freedom fighter. A loser is a terrorist.

Name's only a difference.

Who the fuck are the Musliums?
Believers of islam. And also a few of them are members of Al-Qaeda.

Muslims caused 9/11, 7/7 and a majority of terrorist attacks.

Whoa... another one makes a pitiful apology just out of fear of what might happen otherwise! :mad:

You should be ashamed of yourself, Stone Bridge! Have you no backbone!? :rolleyes: :headbang:

So... Your point is?

just because a view is against the will of the majority dosn't mean it's any worse.

A winner is a freedom fighter. A loser is a terrorist.

Name's only a difference.

My point is that with your hatemongering arguments, hate-filled speeches and ignorance of Islam you are no better than the Islamic extremists thyemselves. You both spread hate, ill-thinking and create tension.

Whoa... another one makes a pitiful apology just out of fear of what might happen otherwise! :mad:

You should be ashamed of yourself, Stone Bridge! Have you no backbone!? :rolleyes: :headbang:

I know. Don't fall into the will of the deluded majority.It isn't good for you.

My point is that with your hatemongering arguments, hate-filled speeches and ignorance of Islam you are no better than the Islamic extremists thyemselves. You both spread hate, ill-thinking and create tension.
Sometimes truth as well. Personal views, values, beliefs (non-religous)

I've also noticed a lot of disagreement with my views.

Oh well.

Believers of islam. And also a few of them are members of Al-Qaeda.

No, that would be the Muslims (or Moslems).

Muslims caused 9/11, 7/7 and a majority of terrorist attacks.

Tolle, lege. Or stop worrying your purty head.

I know. Don't fall into the will of the deluded majority.It isn't good for you.

Or you could fall into the will of the deluded, hate-filled minority who spread hatred and ignorance.

No, that would be the Muslims (or Moslems).



Tolle, lege. Or stop worrying your purty head.

Believers of islam are muslims/moslems

I'm not worrying. I'd ave used appropiate puntuation and smilies f I was worrying.

Or you could fall into the will of the deluded, hate-filled minority who spread hatred and ignorance.

I've considered insanity more preferable. Who's to say the sky's blue and grass is green?

Lost in all the anti-Muslim hatred is the fact that President Bush in the immediate wake of 9/11 emphasized that Islam is a religion that preaches peace and that extremists twist its meaning to suit their needs. Sort of along the lines of Fred Phelps and his gang twisting the Bible to meet their twisted needs. Now I'm no fan of President Bush, but I think he was dead on with his assessment of Islam.

I RP my main RPing puppet (Majeristan) as a Muslim nation but one that follows the *ideals* of Muslim rather than the incendiary behaviours of the extremists. I've made the distinction in roleplays that I believe exists in real life from my experiences of people I see in real life.

More importantly however, the fact that you researched the matter, saw you were wrong, apologised and acknowledged your mistakes and demonstrated that you learned from them stands you in really good stead in my book. :)

Whoa... another one makes a pitiful apology just out of fear of what might happen otherwise! :mad:

You should be ashamed of yourself, Stone Bridge! Have you no backbone!? :rolleyes: :headbang:

Jeez, first BackwoodsSquatches doubts the sincerity of my apology, and now this.

In the words of Jesus Christ, get behind me Satan.

Jeez, first BackwoodsSquatches doubts the sincerity of my apology, and now this.

In the words of Jesus Christ, get behind me Satan.

Or maybe it was satan who said get behind me jesus christ?

Still. Pretty spineless apology.

Jeez, first BackwoodsSquatches doubts the sincerity of my apology, and now this.

In the words of Jesus Christ, get behind me Satan.

Ignore the extremists and doubters, SB. What you said took courage and conviction, especially since you admit you were set in your ways. It is never easy to admit you were wrong if you think so, and I applaud you for what you did.

Or maybe it was satan who said get behind me jesus christ?

Still. Pretty spineless apology.

Exactly what makes it a spineless apology? I'd love to see yall's criteria for a good apology and for a spineless one.

Ignore the extremists and doubters, SB. What you said took courage and conviction, especially since you admit you were set in your ways. It is never easy to admit you were wrong if you think so, and I applaud you for what you did.

Courage and Conviction.

:confused:

Meaningless emotions and feelings.

It dosn't take great effort to apologize.

I'm sorry.

That didn't take great effort.

Meaning it dosn't either.

Who knows if someone meant it unless they heard them say it?

It's just text.

But if you try and interpret it....

Spinelessness.

Exactly what makes it a spineless apology? I'd love to see yall's criteria for a good apology and for a spineless one.

Surrendering to the will of the deluded majority is a spineless majority.

Unless it was free choice.

And it seems like surrender.

So...

Surrendering to the will of the deluded majority is a spineless majority.

Unless it was free choice.

And it seems like surrender.

So...

and yet, I didn't surrender. I talked to a muslium while doing an article, He showed me the full text of the Koran, I realized I was wrong, and that I was being judgemental and preaching hate, so I apologized.

and yet, I didn't surrender. I talked to a muslium while doing an article, He showed me the full text of the Koran, I realized I was wrong, and that I was being judgemental and preaching hate, so I apologized.

So free chocie. You're not spineless. But still I think you were wrong to give up your beliefs so easily.

So free chocie. You're not spineless. But still I think you were wrong to give up your beliefs so easily.

No, they wern't my belief. If you want to know what my beliefs are, either pick up The Holy Bible, or go to Mass at a Catholic Church sometimes. That is my belief.

Religion?
Christian beliefs?

Well you couldn't have given up your beliefs quicker. If you don't have any now at least.

Good man, I made sure to post your apology along with your former words, although I wish more people would step up.

I refuse to apologize for my remarks...I still seem them as valid in the context they were delivered in. Having said that I do think that Islam as a whole is peaceful and I condemn the Christian attacks on mosques and muslims in Nigeria. Someone needs a hug.

It takes courage to admit our mistakes.
It takes humility to ask for forgiveness.
It takes love to forgive.

Three excellent human qualities. May you always possess them in abundance. :)

Absolutely, I applaud you for your wise decision. If politicians could do the same...

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong. I write for my college papers, and one of the articles I was writing for the march issuse was the Muslium cartoon controversty. Well I talked to him, and the issuse of Islam and was it a religion of peace. He pulled out the Koran (english verison) and showed me the full text. Boy was my face red. I then started to reflect on the people on my side. Fred Phelps, Pat Roberston etc, and I realize that people like Osama did what I did with my "Is Islam a religion of peace?" thread, people like Osama basically chopped up the Koran to fit their own sick twisted desires.

So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me. You know, Jesus Christ always taught us to fess up to our miskates and to ask for forgiveness, and to forgive other. I would hope that the muslium here on this form would find it in their heart to forgive me for my ingorant and uninformed opinion of the Muslium faith. That is all.

I'm glad you had the courage to make this post.

Of course, now everyone who disagrees with you believes you to be a liberal, baby-eating, tree-hugging, suicide-bombing, Osama-loving, Hussein-kissing, traitorous, treasonous, bumbling, cowardly, homosexual and possibly even black bastard because of this...

A while back, I implied that the Muslium faith wasn't a peaceful faith. Well, I was proven wrong... So, to all of the Muslium here on the forum, I would like to apologize for offending you, for being judgemental. Yes, I was judgemental and that was wrong of me.

well done, that man!:D

well done, that man!:D

Or, shame. He says he did it out of choice. Pressure by the deluded majority.

Or, shame. He says he did it out of choice. Pressure by the deluded majority.

I think you're a fucking moron.

snipped in case of change
While I happen to agree with the sentiment I would step back and take a breath before the mods feel like slaping someone down

I think you're a fucking moron.
Mirror (http://uplink.space.com/attachments/2072-moron.jpg)

I have a different view to you. So why am I a moron?

Or, shame. He says he did it out of choice. Pressure by the deluded majority.
Rather then pressure by the deluded minority?

Mirror (http://uplink.space.com/attachments/2072-moron.jpg)

I have a different view to you. So why am I a moron?

I won't call you a moron...mainly because I don't like being banned. However saying that he was pressured when SB has stated several times that he discussed his views with a Muslim and read the entire Koran with this man and changed his views from that. That is not pressure from the majority. It is truly believing that what he thought was ill-judged and wrong.

Rather then pressure by the deluded minority?
I prefer to be called insane, if you please.

I prefer to be called insane, if you please.

Yeah, as long as people are giving you some kind of attention, right? So you feel different and unique and special, right?

Pathetic.

Yeah, as long as people are giving you some kind of attention, right? So you feel different and unique and special, right?

Pathetic.

And you can talk?

I just hold a different view to you.

And I hate individuality too. It's caused a lot of problems.

Of course, now everyone who disagrees with you believes you to be a liberal, baby-eating, tree-hugging, suicide-bombing, Osama-loving, Hussein-kissing, traitorous, treasonous, bumbling, cowardly, homosexual and possibly even black bastard because of this...

Hey now.. lets not go too far here. I resent the fact that somebody with darker skin would automaticly be set with the rest of those insults.

And you can talk?


Why, yes!


I just hold a different view to you.


Yeah, most trolls do hold different views than I.

My Rules for Life

1. All race and all people should live in peace and harmony.
2. People should work together for the common good so that future generations can live longer, fuller lives.
3. No person should undertake any action that would knowingly cause harm to another.
4. Behead anyone who disagrees with my rules.

Are my rules acceptable because the majority of them are generally considered good targets?
My point is that many religious holy books contain both admirable sentiment alongside the repugnant so should we accept all of it? Most religious people would say no. But then they are cherry picking the bits of their religion they feel comfortable with. If the holy book comes directly from the word of God, supposedly the greatest moral authority, then how can you pick the bit you like? Surely that is using your own moral judgement and hence placing your own morality above God’s? That undermines the very foundation of your religion. If you are morally superior to God then why should you worship Him?
You could take the view that the holy book, or at least the morally unpalatable parts, is corrupted by man. But then surely those parts should be removed? Why leave them in when they give so much room for extremism? So, if for example, Islam is based on the Koran, then either the people who don’t believe in the extreme parts are not true Muslims, or the book needs some serious editing. Seeing that latter has not been, and to my knowledge is not being, done then the former must be true, making Islam (and Judaism and Christianity) violent faiths.
That’s my two cents.

Yeah, as long as people are giving you some kind of attention, right? So you feel different and unique and special, right?

Pathetic.Don't feed the troll.

Or maybe it was satan who said get behind me jesus christ?

Still. Pretty spineless apology.

This is the kind of crap I associate with the stereotyped, hardline neocons.

The inability to say they're wrong, and their tired old utterly black and white thinking ways. Anyone who thinks that researching something, learning something you never expected, and changing your point of view is a BAD thing has serious issues that no debate on some online forums is going to fix.
Learning and growing should NEVER be considered a negative. Being stagnant and forever stuck in the same line of thought is what's wrong here.

Dum dum dum, another one bites the dust.

Aww, too bad one here is too ignorant to accept the fact that one person threw away a large portion of ignorance he once had in himself.

Well, anyway, Stone Bridges, Welcome to the Community of Truth. We, in this community, do our own research on things and judge on that besides on what the majority says -- whether it be the Media, or misconceptions believed to be true -- we still do our own research.

I don't think there really is a religion of peace. All religions have, and still do, go through times of extremism and corruption. Now it seems like its Islam's turn. However, I don't think any religion is evil, nor do I think any religion is perfect. Despite what people like Michael Savage tell you, Christianity has had its share of problems, and still does. Christian extremists have caused events such as the Holocaust, witch burnings, mistreatment of Natives, gays, and Pagans etc. Now we have the Muslim extremists bombing everything they can get thier hands on. I doubt any God right now is pleased with how their religion's going. That's my two cents.

I'm glad you had the courage to make this post.

Of course, now everyone who disagrees with you believes you to be a liberal, baby-eating, tree-hugging, suicide-bombing, Osama-loving, Hussein-kissing, traitorous, treasonous, bumbling, cowardly, homosexual and possibly even black bastard because of this...

You left off pot-smoking hippy.

Well, I was proven wrong.

Some of the hardest words to say. I just wanted to add another voice to those who would commend you.

"Religion of Peace"?

Show me. Not words. Actions.

Then I'll believe you.

"Religion of Peace"?

Show me. Not words. Actions.

Then I'll believe you.

If you expect the Western Media to ever show Peaceful Muslims in action, you'll never see the proof you demand.

I go to a Catholic school. I take a class called "Religion and Society." My teacher tells us that the primary book is the New Testament and the Old Testament is just background and story telling. I believe him over you.
That's fine and dandy. As long as you need someone between you and god or you and the source material, you deserve what you get. I know that's a principal catholic tenet, and i don't particularly care.
You should bother reading it yourself sometime, though.
And when you suspect a lack of continuity, this will be waiting for you:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

and if that isn't clear enough, try here:

http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/index.html

Happy hunting.

Nation of Quebec']I don't think there really is a religion of peace. All religions have, and still do, go through times of extremism and corruption. Now it seems like its Islam's turn. However, I don't think any religion is evil, nor do I think any religion is perfect. Despite what people like Michael Savage tell you, Christianity has had its share of problems, and still does. Christian extremists have caused events such as the Holocaust, witch burnings, mistreatment of Natives, gays, and Pagans etc. Now we have the Muslim extremists bombing everything they can get thier hands on. I doubt any God right now is pleased with how their religion's going. That's my two cents.

The thing is that Islam is still stuck in the past. They still seem to sound like the fantaics you'd see cutting off someones head in the name of their God. Yes, they not all bad, but everyone must admit. The world would have been much better off without Religion, Islam or other, full stop.

By the way, you missed The Crusades and how did Christians create the Holocaust?

Also, don't listen to a thing Santa Barbara tells you about this subject. On one thread he claimed he started to hate the west because they apparently "moaned so much about their pussy towers". I mean, its not like we were given a good reason?

Or you could fall into the will of the deluded, hate-filled minority who spread hatred and ignorance.
Yeah, you know, the ones with the special haircuts and tattoos, and a complete misunderstanding of what "Indo-Europeans" means.

I refuse to apologize for my remarks...I still seem them as valid in the context they were delivered in. Having said that I do think that Islam as a whole is peaceful and I condemn the Christian attacks on mosques and muslims in Nigeria. Someone needs a hug.
Alright, alright. Wash up.
...mmm.....
:fluffle:

I think you're a fucking moron.
This statement, for example, is a singular POV, not representing "the majority", as evidenced by "I" (even if it turns out to be the majority's POV, this comment is not necessarily representative).
Thus not belonging to "the deluded majority", but "astute singularity".
Well within the realm of this particular argument's reason.

This statement, for example, is a singular POV, not representing "the majority", as evidenced by "I" (even if it turns out to be the majority's POV, this comment is not necessarily representative).
Thus not belonging to "the deluded majority", but "astute singularity".
Well within the realm of this particular argument's reason.

Zuh?

My Rules for Life

1. All race and all people should live in peace and harmony.
2. People should work together for the common good so that future generations can live longer, fuller lives.
3. No person should undertake any action that would knowingly cause harm to another.
4. Behead anyone who disagrees with my rules.

Are my rules acceptable because the majority of them are generally considered good targets?
My point is that many religious holy books contain both admirable sentiment alongside the repugnant so should we accept all of it? Most religious people would say no. But then they are cherry picking the bits of their religion they feel comfortable with. If the holy book comes directly from the word of God, supposedly the greatest moral authority, then how can you pick the bit you like? Surely that is using your own moral judgement and hence placing your own morality above God’s? That undermines the very foundation of your religion. If you are morally superior to God then why should you worship Him?
You could take the view that the holy book, or at least the morally unpalatable parts, is corrupted by man. But then surely those parts should be removed? Why leave them in when they give so much room for extremism? So, if for example, Islam is based on the Koran, then either the people who don’t believe in the extreme parts are not true Muslims, or the book needs some serious editing. Seeing that latter has not been, and to my knowledge is not being, done then the former must be true, making Islam (and Judaism and Christianity) violent faiths.
That’s my two cents.
GREAT first post! *bows*

Welcome to NS, if this indeed be your first tour.

... how did Christians create the Holocaust?
Hitler was a Roman Catholic. More to the point, the Holocaust was the culmination of a religiously-based anti-semitism which had existed and been promoted by the Church throughout most of Christian history. The poisonous culture of hatred which made the Holocaust possible was entirely of Christian making.

Zuh?
I was noting that, although somewhat inflammatory, Santa Barbara opted to point out quite clearly that his opinion of Imperiux was of the negative persuasion, independent of anyone else's opinion or influence.
I was making a rational explanation of it (warranted or otherwise). *nods*
No slight upon yourself nor Santa Barbara, in case you were wondering.

Also, isn't it, "Get THEE behind me, Satan?"

I was noting that, although somewhat inflammatory, Santa Barbara opted to point out quite clearly that his opinion of Imperiux was of the negative persuasion, independent of anyone else's opinion or influence.
I was making a rational explanation of it (warranted or otherwise). *nods*
No slight upon yourself nor Santa Barbara, in case you were wondering.

Also, isn't it, "Get THEE behind me, Satan?'"

Eh it can go either way. I use the NIV Bible instead of the KJ Bible.

That's fine and dandy. As long as you need someone between you and god or you and the source material, you deserve what you get. I know that's a principal catholic tenet, and i don't particularly care.
You should bother reading it yourself sometime, though.
And when you suspect a lack of continuity, this will be waiting for you:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

and if that isn't clear enough, try here:

http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/index.html

Happy hunting.

So you're saying that the Bible is inconsistent? Well, you must truly be this generation's Luther.

Everyone knows the Bible isn't done well. There are two versions of Genesis, two versions of Jesus' birth, etc. Tell me something I don't know.

The thing is that Islam is still stuck in the past.
Not to detract from your point about Islam, but indeed, many people that subscribe to Christianity also subscribe to old implicitude of "static earth", which has, for many, many decades now, been proven to be utterly, arrogantly incorrect. That's obviously a matter for other threads, but it can't be said that an institution for which canon and tenet are of utmost importance has a primary directive of keeping up-to-date with anything of a factual nature ... no, it is to uphold conservative standards.

So you're saying that the Bible is inconsistent? Well, you must truly be this generation's Luther.
Believe it or not, i respect a LOT of what Luther stood for. I'm not him.
And neither are the people i referred you to. But if it's easier for you to change the subject and stop abruptly to unfurl your "formidable" wit, go ahead. The book and its perils remain unexplored, apparently, by you - at your peril.


Everyone knows the Bible isn't done well. There are two versions of Genesis, two versions of Jesus' birth, etc. Tell me something I don't know.
Did you stop there? Is your brain full?
Oh right, you want something you don't know.
Okay, the body can produce up to ONE QUART of mucous a day.

...now that i've indulged you, have at your homework! Chop chop!

Eh it can go either way. I use the NIV Bible instead of the KJ Bible.
True. I wasn't thinking of it like that. *nods*

Believe it or not, i respect a LOT of what Luther stood for. I'm not him.
And neither are the people i referred you to. But if it's easier for you to change the subject and stop abruptly to unfurl your "formidable" wit, go ahead. The book and its perils remain unexplored, apparently, by you - at your peril.

Did you stop there? Is your brain full?
Oh right, you want something you don't know.
Okay, the body can produce up to ONE QUART of mucous a day.

...now that i've indulged you, have at your homework! Chop chop!

Note to Straughn: This is NOT pre-revolution France. Your wit cannot help you here.

Note to Straughn: This is NOT pre-revolution France. Your wit cannot help you here.Perhaps not, but even you have to admit it was pretty damn funny :p

Note to Straughn: This is NOT pre-revolution France. Your wit cannot help you here.
Well i would say we've got a nominal match, except you STILL don't know what you're talking about.
So are you still blissful or ready to take your next baby step?

EDIT: No, no you're right, lets settle this with foils, or stakes and torches. Wit went over really well with them, you're right. Right up until that clever barb about cake.
:rolleyes:

Perhaps not, but even you have to admit it was pretty damn funny :p
Thanks!
Give 'em a few rounds, maybe s/he needs to review the paragraph a few more times, mouthing the words and checking a dictionary.
Well, if s/he proves me wrong about the mucous then i guess that'll shoot my integrity all to h-e-doublehockeysticks. And then what'll i do? I would be too embarassed to bear my ugly mug here ever again, for fear of scorn and endless, merciless references to France (oh, the horror)

Thanks!
Give 'em a few rounds, maybe s/he needs to review the paragraph a few more times, mouthing the words and checking a dictionary.

I've read it. Several times. And what I'm getting from you is "The Bible is full of contradictions and should mostly be ignored."

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING.

I've read it. Several times. And what I'm getting from you is "The Bible is full of contradictions and should mostly be ignored."

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING.
Well, i wouldn't be saying it should be read, if i was expecting people to ignore it, would i?
It's not *FULL* of contradictions, it's just that a lot of the ones that do exist sure as hades don't help the case for religion/denomination that want to use it as an ineffable authority.
Well, i won't belabor it anyway, those issues aren't even the point of this thread. The point is that with research, a greater understanding is likely to come of something than just reiterating the POV of people who parrot other people who haven't likely even READ/affiliated themselves with the material in question.
And Stone Bridges professes to have attempted to grow in understanding of an issue he hadn't fully explored at first, and he apparently felt it appropriate to share that experience with a bunch of largely snide, nasty anonymous individuals on a forum, because it was the right thing to do in his belief.
And a few of us aren't as black-hearted as we could be, and want to show our appreciation of the sentiment ... regardless if it's true, it actually feels good that a person is willing to state that.

Islam is as Islam does, I have few doubts that the Qu'ran was intended as a peaceful religious doctrine, yet a religion is defined by the actions of its members and to me it is becoming increasingly clear that Islamic intolerance and anti-westernism is not something entirely constrained to the radical fringe.

Islam is as Islam does, I have few doubts that the Qu'ran was intended as a peaceful religious doctrine, yet a religion is defined by the actions of its members and to me it is becoming increasingly clear that Islamic intolerance and anti-westernism is not something entirely constrained to the radical fringe.
Christianity is as Christianity does, I have few doubts that the Bible was intended as a peaceful religious doctrine, yet a religion is defined by the actions of its members and to me it is becoming increasingly clear that Christian intolerance and anti-Islamism is not something entirely constrained to the radical fringe.

The door swings both ways? Perhaps that is the biggest part of the problem?

You liberals make me sick. Stop drinking the kool aid, spewing words that "enlightened" people have told you, and dig up the truth for once in your miserable, pathetic lives.
Word on everything prior to this, but a big "FUCK YOU!" for confusing liberalism with moral relativism. There's plenty of us on the left who are as sickened by the relativists as you are, and who don't appreciate you lumping us in with them.

My Rules for Life

1. All race and all people should live in peace and harmony.
2. People should work together for the common good so that future generations can live longer, fuller lives.
3. No person should undertake any action that would knowingly cause harm to another.
4. Behead anyone who disagrees with my rules.

Are my rules acceptable because the majority of them are generally considered good targets?
My point is that many religious holy books contain both admirable sentiment alongside the repugnant so should we accept all of it? Most religious people would say no. But then they are cherry picking the bits of their religion they feel comfortable with. If the holy book comes directly from the word of God, supposedly the greatest moral authority, then how can you pick the bit you like? Surely that is using your own moral judgement and hence placing your own morality above God’s? That undermines the very foundation of your religion. If you are morally superior to God then why should you worship Him?
You could take the view that the holy book, or at least the morally unpalatable parts, is corrupted by man. But then surely those parts should be removed? Why leave them in when they give so much room for extremism? So, if for example, Islam is based on the Koran, then either the people who don’t believe in the extreme parts are not true Muslims, or the book needs some serious editing. Seeing that latter has not been, and to my knowledge is not being, done then the former must be true, making Islam (and Judaism and Christianity) violent faiths.
That’s my two cents.
IAWTC.

The OT is the basis on which the NT is built. Without OT, no NT. Regarding it as merely background to the religion is not sufficient.
Btw, if it was only a bit of background and storytelling, why do you think it would form half of Christianity's Holy Bible?
Well, you can have Christianity without the OT; you just can't have orthodox Christianity without the OT. Marcionism comes to mind as a possible alternative, not to mention various strains of Christian gnosticism.

Jeez, first BackwoodsSquatches doubts the sincerity of my apology, and now this.

In the words of Jesus Christ, get behind me Satan.


I doubt your sincerity becuase it takes no courage whatsoever, to admit you were wrong on forum, where you are a name with no face, appealing to other faceless names.
We dont know you personally, nor, are we ever likely to meet.

I doubt your sincerity, becuase you should have known full well that Islam IS, WAS, and always will be a religion of peace.
You should have known that there are almost no major religions that advocate violence.
To assume that your faith was the only peaceful one, is arrogant, and no amount of apologizing will wash arrogance away.

What would you hope to gain by admiting this kind of thing in NS General?

Why would you seek our approval?

I would have had more respect for you if you had stuck to your conviction, although admitting you were wrong, is a step towards understanding.

Just by reading your posts, I can tell you have a lot of maturing to do, as do most of us, but I do hope you reach this goal before you become a man of the cloth.

Good luck.