NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is nearly everybody against fascism? I'm not sure what I am. Maybe a few of you have some ideas. But what is the deal with fascism? It's helped a lot of countries grow economically, and helped in many other ways.

Anyone?

Fascism by Google (http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=Fascism&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images)

Now I'm sue I'm a blatant fascist.

I don't like the idea that one likes something mearly because one is involved with it. Nor do I like the idea that someone dislikes it for that reason.

Judge objective, not because it's your own country or your own painting, that doesn't make it better or worse.

Why is nearly everybody against fascism?

Have they stopped teaching history in schools, or something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Most people are against fascism because Mussolini's Italy, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were all fascists. (Just in case you didn't know, those were the Bad Guys in WWII.)

Have they stopped teaching history in schools, or something?It's replaced when America became independant with something shiney new and wonderful called 'American history'.

Have they stopped teaching history in schools, or something?

Not in the UK at least. But why? It seems ok to me.

(Preparing a stolen car, just in case the people respond violently)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Most people are against fascism because Mussolini's Italy, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were all fascists. (Just in case you didn't know, those were the Bad Guys in WWII.)

Meh. It seems like a decent enough type of government.

Have they stopped teaching history in schools, or something?

I don't think it is a required subject in most American schools anymore. :( In fact, I don't think anything including attendance is required in most American schools anymore. :eek:

I don't like fascism because it destroys the freedom of the individual in the name of nationalism; the ideology leads ultimately to racial/religious hatred and repession of all kinds of freedom. It is anti-science, anti-progress, and anti-freedom, and I oppose it for those reasons.

I also oppose Communism, for similar reasons. Just replace nationalism with revolution, and they have several marked similarities, in particular the suppression of the individual in favor of the national interest.

Why is nearly everybody against fascism? I'm not sure what I am. Maybe a few of you have some ideas. But what is the deal with fascism? It's helped a lot of countries gain control?

Anyone?

Because the overwhelming majority has no idea what it is - just that it was the system of choice of some evil men.
Others simply dislike the lack of democracy.

[url]Most people are against fascism because Mussolini's Italy, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were all fascists. (Just in case you didn't know, those were the Bad Guys in WWII.)
To be fair: not exactly. Imperial Japan is argued by some to have been Fascist.
Also, the Bad Guys in WWII and not really. Corporatist Portugal and kinda-Fascist Franco supplied the Allies; Mussolini fell because of a coup inside the aptly-titled Grand Council of Fascism - in fact, he was outvoted by Fascists who also voted to sign a peace with the Allies.

And, to be sure, there are striking similarities between Fascism and National-Socialism. But the number of differences is huge, just as well.

Gain control? What's so great about the government gaining control?

WWII aside (which is a pretty big thing to put aside), Fascism fails to convince me even in theory. I don't want to serve the state or strengthen my country, I want to serve and strengthen myself.

I don't like fascism because it destroys the freedom of the individual in the name of nationalism; the ideology leads ultimately to racial/religious hatred and repession of all kinds of freedom. It is anti-science, anti-progress, and anti-freedom, and I oppose it for those reasons.

I also oppose Communism, for similar reasons. Just replace nationalism with revolution, and they have several marked similarities, in particular the suppression of the individual in favor of the national interest.

That's the exact opposite of how I feel.

"Fascism is also typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic." wikipedia

Freedom lovers hate Fascism

Why is nearly everybody against fascism? I'm not sure what I am. Maybe a few of you have some ideas. But what is the deal with fascism? It's helped a lot of countries gain control?

Anyone?
Look at the results. Judge it by its results.

Shoveling people into ovens doesn't speak well for it.

Results?
What results?
Evidence is muy appreciated in debates?
Thank you.

That's the exact opposite of how I feel.

I will disagree with you a lot, it seems.

However, it is important to note that command economies can and do rebuild and expand the economy of the nation they are implemented in very quickly; however, they ultimately will stagnate and collapse unless they are dismantled gradually following the achievement of economic recovery.

Fascism is a command economy; they disavow planned economics of Communist states in favor of government-industry cooperation especially in regard to war-sensitive material production.

Results?
What results?
Evidence is muy appreciated in debates?
Thank you.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/

Results?
What results?
Evidence is muy appreciated in debates?
Thank you.

The Holocaust, the Rape of Nanking (and China in general, along with Korea), the utter devastation of much of Europe, the destruction of thousands of major scientific and political works, repression of freedom and personal expression, gross criminal offenses against prisoners of war and innocent civilians, the dehumanization of the disabled, minorities, and homosexuals...

The list goes on and on.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/

Do note however that most of the holocaust took place in Nazi Germany, which was not fascist.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/

Isnt that a bigjewishliberalcommunistconservativechristianislamosocialist conspiracy™?

http://www.holocaust-history.org/

And National Socialism is Fascism because?

It's wierd that, like in Italy and Germany, people glorified the Fascists. Then suddenly, after their regimes, the people start to despise them so suddenly. How screwed up is that?

They don't like is for many reasons. The other reasons have already been stated, but one of the major ones is that Fascists have in the past associated with Nazis due to their outward similarities. While today we know how different they were it is too late to remove the past association.

Most people are against fascism because Mussolini's Italy, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were all fascists. (Just in case you didn't know, those were the Bad Guys in WWII.)
Japan was not a fascist nation. It was militaristic, but it made no intention of instaling the Corporatist/Syndicalist economic system.

Do note however that most of the holocaust took place in Nazi Germany, which was not fascist.
Next you'll tell me that Stalin was not a Communist.

Mussolini declared to the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Angelo Sacerdoti, that Fascism was neither anti-Semitism nor anti-Semitic. "The Jewish Problem does not exist in Italy,"

I suppose that's because the Italians rounded up the Jews (like Primo Levi and his father) and sent them to the concentration camps that Germany was running.

Next you'll tell me that Stalin was not a Communist.
He borderlined over the edges of communism/extreme capitalism in my view.

I was under the impression that authoritarianism is something you want to avoid more often than not, unless you're the head honcho or you were brainwashed by the head honcho. Maybe both? I think that sorta happens in '84.

Fascists must die. Quite simple.

The Holocaust, the Rape of Nanking (and China in general, along with Korea), the utter devastation of much of Europe, the destruction of thousands of major scientific and political works, repression of freedom and personal expression, gross criminal offenses against prisoners of war and innocent civilians, the dehumanization of the disabled, minorities, and homosexuals...

The list goes on and on.
Look at the results. Judge it by its results.

Shoveling people into ovens doesn't speak well for it.
Agreed.

Do note however that most of the holocaust took place in Nazi Germany, which was not fascist.
To me, nazism is derived from fascism.

the same as the problem with Democracy, Communism, etc...

all are dependent for success on people. Unfortunately, humans are, by there very nature, corrupt.

Any Government system would work if the people in power could be trusted to do what is best for their people. It is the corruptness of humans that corrupts states.

And as we are all different and want different things, we, as humans, dear friends are stuffed.

Remember, Hitler was voted into power. Not exactly an advert for Democracy is it?

Next you'll tell me that Stalin was not a Communist.
Well technically he wasn't.I suppose that's because the Italians rounded up the Jews (like Primo Levi and his father) and sent them to the concentration camps that Germany was running.

Many jews were Fascists in Italy [One of the head Rabbis at Rome was the leader of his local Fascist party] and were protected by Mussolini until the Germans took control of northern Italy in 1943. At that point Mussolini and his blackshirts had no choice bu to allow hitler to take them.

Primo Levi was unfortunate enough to have been around when the Nazis created the Salo Puppet state.

Why is nearly everybody against fascism? I'm not sure what I am. Maybe a few of you have some ideas. But what is the deal with fascism? It's helped a lot of countries gain control?

Anyone?

Well because most people who use fascism in the end never listen to reason, forcing everybody to think he (or she) us stupid beyond all reason. With most fascist states you need to always be on the lookout for coruption and coups. Which inevitable leads to what happened to communism, the failure to continue. Why everyone hates it? Because losers always use them for bad reasons.

I believe Propagandhi said it best.. "The only good fascist is a very dead fascist!"

Well technically he wasn't.
Stalin was the result of Communism.

Someone took an ideal (from Marx) and ran with it. You know, Lenin... the Russian Revolution...

And Stalin was a natural by-product, just as when you feed a cow a lot of clover, you get...

Next you'll tell me that Stalin was not a Communist.

Of course! He was actually a Capitalist.

And I'm Che Guerra. BUY MY T-SHIRT!

Well technically he wasn't.

No, but that's what you get when you put Communism in to practice. Therefore, it's best to avoid Communism altogether because it inevitably turns in to a Stalinist (or at best Brezhnevist) dictatorship.

Whats wrong with fascism? Type World War 2 + Concentration camps in Google Images and you'll see whats wrong with fascism! People not being allowed to get jobs or enter places simply because they favour a different God, their skin colour is different and they don't follow the sheep carressing their leader as he whips another Muslim. Whats wrong with fascism? Try thinking the Holocaust, the Nazis, the South American dispute, the Black Slave regime....must I say more?

Of course! He was actually a Capitalist.

And I'm Che Guerra. BUY MY T-SHIRT!
Guevara. I have your poster.

OK (http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=WW2+concentration+camps&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images)
What's the point other than the pretty appalling conditions?

I've often thought that fascism is what you get when the population of a democratic country feels threatened.

Whats wrong with fascism? Type World War 2 + Concentration camps in Google Images and you'll see whats wrong with fascism! People not being allowed to get jobs or enter places simply because they favour a different God, their skin colour is different and they don't follow the sheep carressing their leader as he whips another Muslim. Whats wrong with fascism? Try thinking the Holocaust, the Nazis, the South American dispute, the Black Slave regime....must I say more?
Please do. It can only provide a more definitive answer to this thread.

OK (http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=WW2+concentration+camps&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images)
What's the point other than the pretty appalling conditions?
Well, if you think that rounding up people just because they fit a certain group, and shoveling them into ovens is a good thing (especially if done by industrial means on a massive scale), then fascism must be good. :rolleyes:

Well, if you think that rounding up people just because they fit a certain group, and shoveling them into ovens is a good thing (especially if done by industrial means on a massive scale), then fascism must be good. :rolleyes:

I thought the idea was working to death? Except for the unfit, who got gassed.

And I think that my views have shifted pro-fascist after all the information.

No, but that's what you get when you put Communism in to practice. Therefore, it's best to avoid Communism altogether because it inevitably turns in to a Stalinist (or at best Brezhnevist) dictatorship.
Oh I don't care for Stalin, but I still don't consider him a commie.

Whats wrong with fascism? Type World War 2 + Concentration camps in Google Images and you'll see whats wrong with fascism! People not being allowed to get jobs or enter places simply because they favour a different God, their skin colour is different and they don't follow the sheep carressing their leader as he whips another Muslim. Whats wrong with fascism? Try thinking the Holocaust, the Nazis, the South American dispute, the Black Slave regime....must I say more?
Thanks for the description of Nazism, but we're talking about Fascism.

Also, your argument is that its helped many countries come to power. And? Just because it helps you become powerful doesn't mean its right! If Britain was a Dictatorship, we'd become more powerful but does that make right? Running a country is about listening to your people and creating laws to aid them all. Fascism is about pampering the majority and ignoring the minority.

'Oh, so practically all the Jews in my country are getting beaten up, raped and mugged during the day, who cares? Aslong as my country is powerful it doesn't matter.' Bull.

I've often thought that fascism is what you get when the population of a democratic country feels threatened.

Kind of. When they're only economically threatened, they might go Communist...but if they're both economically as well as militarily threatened, they usually go fascist. It all depends on what people are afraid of.

I thought the idea was working to death? Except for the unfit, who got gassed.

And I think that my views have shifted pro-fascist after all the information.
I guess you think it's good as long as you're not the one being worked to death or gassed.

The majority died of the gas. Especially after the camps really got going.

Oh I don't care for Stalin, but I still don't consider him a commie.


Thanks for the description of Nazism, but we're talking about Fascism.

Okay, either you:

1)Didn't know the Nazi regime was fascist. You must of skipped a lot of history lessons if you didn't know that.

or

2)Were implying that I used only Nazi events in my examples, which isn't true.

Also, your argument is that its helped many countries come to power. And? Just because it helps you become powerful doesn't mean its right! If Britain was a Dictatorship, we'd become more powerful but does that make right? Running a country is about listening to your people and creating laws to aid them all. Fascism is about pampering the majority and ignoring the minority.

'Oh, so practically all the Jews in my country are getting beaten up, raped and mugged during the day, who cares? Aslong as my country is powerful it doesn't matter.' Bull.

Ethics. Who needs them? And I'll change the argument. It is a little dreary..

I thought the idea was working to death? Except for the unfit, who got gassed.

And I think that my views have shifted pro-fascist after all the information.

So you think prisoners should be worked to death and the unfit gassed?

Ethics. Who needs them? And I'll change the argument. It is a little dreary..

Do you have parents?

So you think prisoners should be worked to death and the unfit gassed?

No. I just thoguht that was what the Nazi's did.

Next you'll tell me that Stalin was not a Communist.

Technically ? No. But he claimed to be. Hitler did not claim to be fascist, nor was he. Mussolini was.

Do you have parents?
Yes I do. Both are alive. And I am 13.

Shock Horror.

Ethics. Who needs them? And I'll change the argument. It is a little dreary..

A society that wishes to progress needs them.

Why you shouldn't be a fascist-

1) Because fascists are violent authoritarians who have a nice little history of killing anybody who disagrees with them.

2) Because their whole syndicalist thing is nothing more than empty rhetoric.

3) Because they believe in the unbending power of an authoritarian state to control the people, instead of allowing people to control the state. Do you really want to live in a system which, if it becomes corrupted, won't let you change anything?

4) Because nationalism/racism are basically key to nationalist thinking. And as all sane people know, nations and race are merely constructs of humanity which have no relevance to the real world.

Ethics. Who needs them? And I'll change the argument. It is a little dreary..

YOU THINK ITS RIGHT TO LET PEOPLE FROM A DIFFERENT CULTURE GET SLAUGHTERED DRUING THE DAY?!?!? YOU THINK ITS FINE THAT PEOPLE ARE TAKEN OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND BEATEN UP BEFORE HAVING THEIR HOMES SET ALIGHT?!?!??! YOU THINK ITS RIGHT THAT A YOUNG GIRL MUST ENDURE SEXUAL ABUSE EVERYTIME SHE GOES UOT TO BUY FOOD?!?!?

Kind of. When they're only economically threatened, they might go Communist...but if they're both economically as well as militarily threatened, they usually go fascist. It all depends on what people are afraid of.
The classic example for me was Franklin Roosevelt - who had very compassionate leanings which were erased by Pearl Harbor. The country had no problem rounding up Japanese and putting them in camps.

The reaction to 9-11...

Okay, either you:

1)Didn't know the Nazi regime was fascist. You must of skipped a lot of history lessons if you didn't know that.

or

2)Were implying that I used only Nazi events in my examples, which isn't true.
1. Nazis were outwardlt Fascist, but there's a large ideological difference between Nazism and Fascism.

2. Nothing you stated happened in the two regines that can be considered Fascist [Mussolini's Italy and D'Annuzzio's Fiume] except for the short lived Nazi Puppet state of Salo.

You can lump every group that was similar together, but that's just plain ignorance because their were large differences between each of them.

YOU THINK ITS RIGHT TO LET PEOPLE FROM A DIFFERENT CULTURE GET SLAUGHTERED DRUING THE DAY?!?!? YOU THINK ITS FINE THAT PEOPLE ARE TAKEN OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND BEATEN UP BEFORE HAVING THEIR HOMES SET ALIGHT?!?!??! YOU THINK ITS RIGHT THAT A YOUNG GIRL MUST ENDURE SEXUAL ABUSE EVERYTIME SHE GOES UOT TO BUY FOOD?!?!?

No. I don't think like that. I'm not supporting Nazism which is what you're ranting about. I'm just slightly curious about Fascism.

Why you shouldn't be a fascist-

1) Because fascists are violent authoritarians who have a nice little history of killing anybody who disagrees with them.

2) Because their whole syndicalist thing is nothing more than empty rhetoric.

3) Because they believe in the unbending power of an authoritarian state to control the people, instead of allowing people to control the state. Do you really want to live in a system which, if it becomes corrupted, won't let you change anything?

4) Because nationalism/racism are basically key to nationalist thinking. And as all sane people know, nations and race are merely constructs of humanity which have no relevance to the real world.
Why you shouldn't be a Communist-

1) Because Communists are violent authoritarians who have a nice little history of killing anybody who disagrees with them.

2) Because their whole worker's paradise thing is nothing more than empty rhetoric.

3) Because they believe in the unbending power of an authoritarian party to control the people, instead of allowing people to control anything. Do you really want to live in a system which, if it becomes corrupted, won't let you change anything?

4) Because property and money are basically key to Communist thinking. And as all sane people know, property and money are merely constructs of humanity which have no relevance to the real world.

you seriously want to sacrifice your own freedom for the strength of the state?

I cannot fathom this.

Living in a fascist society is not fun, unless you like sexism and homophobia that is.

Fascism is great for the majority, not so much for everyone else.

1. Nazis were outwardlt Fascist, but there's a large ideological difference between Nazism and Fascism.

2. Nothing you stated happened in the two regines that can be considered Fascist [Mussolini's Italy and D'Annuzzio's Fiume] except for the short lived Nazi Puppet state of Salo.

You can lump every group that was similar together, but that's just plain ignorance because their were large differences between each of them.

So your saying when Black Americans were stripped of their rights and made into slaves was not facism?

The classic example for me was Franklin Roosevelt - who had very compassionate leanings which were erased by Pearl Harbor. The country had no problem rounding up Japanese and putting them in camps.

The reaction to 9-11...

Thankfully, the 9/11 attacks' effect on the national sentiment seems to have faded rapidly...the things even normally rational people were saying were absolutely chilling at times. The debate over the Patriot Act was reassuring, to say the least.

Ironically enough, it seems like the War in Iraq and Enron/Worldcom/others scandal might have averted a truly terrible action by the US government...they split that national "unity" that was looking more and more like belligerent nationalism.

No. I don't think like that. I'm not supporting Nazism which is what you're ranting about. I'm just slightly curious about Fascism.

You think it was just the Nazis who killed people? If so then you have a lot to learn.

Yes I do. Both are alive. And I am 13.

Shock Horror.

They are doing a poor job. How else could they end up with a son who thinks that racism, misogyny homophobia and religious hatred are good things?

Why you shouldn't be a Communist-

1) Because Communists are violent authoritarians who have a nice little history of killing anybody who disagrees with them.

2) Because their whole worker's paradise thing is nothing more than empty rhetoric.

3) Because they believe in the unbending power of an authoritarian party to control the people, instead of allowing people to control anything. Do you really want to live in a system which, if it becomes corrupted, won't let you change anything?

4) Because property and money are basically key to Communist thinking. And as all sane people know, property and money are merely constructs of humanity which have no relevance to the real world.

Im sorry. I thought this thread was about fascism. What a suprise Deep Kimchi comes in and tries to attack communism with the same tired arguments

Thankfully, the 9/11 attacks' effect on the national sentiment seems to have faded rapidly...the things even normally rational people were saying were absolutely chilling at times. The debate over the Patriot Act was reassuring, to say the least.

Ironically enough, it seems like the War in Iraq and Enron/Worldcom/others scandal might have averted a truly terrible action by the US government...they split that national "unity" that was looking more and more like belligerent nationalism.

And now there is a Muslim overreaction to the cartoons. It's had a salutary effect on Europeans, who now seem to demand assimilation.

Only a matter of time now.

You think it was just the Nazis who killed people? If so then you have a lot to learn.
I agree, and reflect your second sentence.

Yes I do. Both are alive. And I am 13.

Shock Horror.
Ah I see now.. I went through a fascism phase when I was your age although it was more to do with me looking a lot like Adolf.. Don't worry.. you'll grow out of it..

So your saying when Black Americans were stripped of their rights and made into slaves was not facism?

No, it wasn't. That was institutional racism, not fascism

For one, fascism is simply a stupid idea. I would think the last century would make it pretty clear that its one of the discredited political theories. One might as well push for Leninism or Maoism.

Why you shouldn't be a Communist-

1) Because Communists are violent authoritarians who have a nice little history of killing anybody who disagrees with them.

2) Because their whole worker's paradise thing is nothing more than empty rhetoric.

3) Because they believe in the unbending power of an authoritarian party to control the people, instead of allowing people to control anything. Do you really want to live in a system which, if it becomes corrupted, won't let you change anything?

4) Because property and money are basically key to Communist thinking. And as all sane people know, property and money are merely constructs of humanity which have no relevance to the real world.


Two arguments against Fascism and Communism? Okay. Maybe it's not such a good day.

OK (http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=WW2+concentration+camps&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images)
What's the point other than the pretty appalling conditions?

http://hsgm.free.fr/recent/auschwitz.jpg

That was on the first page fo your link, and your calling that just "pretty appalling conditions"?!?!

Im sorry. I thought this thread was about fascism. What a suprise Deep Kimchi comes in and tries to attack communism with the same tired arguments
I actually believe that Communism and Fascism are closely related in their implementation.

Each hands total power to a small party of elite, who then run roughshod over everyone else, and shoot whoever they don't like in the back of the head.

The initial sales job for each is a little different - each makes a big promise that is never kept.

Ah I see now.. I went through a fascism phase when I was your age although it was more to do with me looking a lot like Adolf.. Don't worry.. you'll grow out of it..

With a toothbrush moustache my friend would look like hitler.

I look like me.

Why you shouldn't be a Communist-

1) Because Communists are violent authoritarians who have a nice little history of killing anybody who disagrees with them.

2) Because their whole worker's paradise thing is nothing more than empty rhetoric.

3) Because they believe in the unbending power of an authoritarian party to control the people, instead of allowing people to control anything. Do you really want to live in a system which, if it becomes corrupted, won't let you change anything?

4) Because property and money are basically key to Communist thinking. And as all sane people know, property and money are merely constructs of humanity which have no relevance to the real world.


You are describing the Soviet Union, not communism. If you actually knew what communism was about you would realize that in a Marxist society the state is supposed to be progressively dismantled as class ceases to exist. You would also know about the tradition of anarcho-communism.

But you don't, so you shouldn't even be talking about communism.

With a toothbrush moustache my friend would look like hitler.

I look like me.

Just out of interest, where do you live? The Western Isles? Shetland?

With a toothbrush moustache my friend would look like hitler.

I look like me.
On my last day of school they drew a moustache on me with permenant marker.. Didn't wash off for weeks!

So your saying when Black Americans were stripped of their rights and made into slaves was not facism?
Did the slavemasters advocate an authoritarian government with a corporatist/syndicalist economic polocy?

You are describing the Soviet Union, not communism. If you actually knew what communism was about you would realize that in a Marxist society the state is supposed to be progressively dismantled as class ceases to exist. You would also know about the tradition of anarcho-communism.

But you don't, so you shouldn't even be talking about communism.

Judge Communism by its outcomes, not by what the ideal might be in a book. Shows how little you know about life.

Just out of interest, where do you live? The Western Isles? Shetland?

UK,East Midlands, Derbyshire, Chesterfield.

I actually believe that Communism and Fascism are closely related in their implementation.

Each hands total power to a small party of elite, who then run roughshod over everyone else, and shoot whoever they don't like in the back of the head.

The initial sales job for each is a little different - each makes a big promise that is never kept.

Not only did you just attack Communism again in that sentence but your so bloody wrong. Communism is about everyone getting a say and money being shared equally rather then some fat git from the arisdocrasy eating all the pie. I mean, look at the revolution. Yes it was bloody but afterwards people became better off because the Royal Family's wealth was shared and not hogged.

On my last day of school they drew a moustache on me with permenant marker.. Didn't wash off for weeks!

My friends too small to be hitler by 5-6". But put a moustache on him, and wow. He's pretty fluent in german too. And he's oddly enough a nazi in denial.

Hitler re-incarnated

I actually believe that Communism and Fascism are closely related in their implementation.

Each hands total power to a small party of elite, who then run roughshod over everyone else, and shoot whoever they don't like in the back of the head.

The initial sales job for each is a little different - each makes a big promise that is never kept.

No Communism and Fascism are two completely different concepts. Yes, you have identified that both 'communist' and 'fascist' are labels that have been given to different totalitarian regimes, however you have ignored the differences in said regimes. You ignore the fact that a dictatorship is an idea inherent within fascism whereas only occured within 'communist' regimes the authoritarianism was created due to material conditions.

You are describing the Soviet Union, not communism. If you actually knew what communism was about you would realize that in a Marxist society the state is supposed to be progressively dismantled as class ceases to exist. You would also know about the tradition of anarcho-communism.

That's what Communism in practice has always been...it has always been repressive, has always led to state control over everything, and has always been empty rhetoric used to hide government-sponsored looting on a vast scale. The theory doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't work in practice and Communism simply doesn't work on anything but the smallest scale, which makes it impossible to ever work.

Not only did you just attack Communism again in that sentence but your so bloody wrong. Communism is about everyone getting a say and money being shared equally rather then some fat git from the arisdocrasy eating all the pie. I mean, look at the revolution. Yes it was bloody but afterwards people became better off because the Royal Family's wealth was shared and not hogged.
Communism is sort of an evolved form of egalitarianism.

I'm seeing myself as a fascist-communist now. Should I be scared? and if so, why?

Judge Communism by its outcomes, not by what the ideal might be in a book. Shows how little you know about life.

How about you do the same for capitalism. And I mean look at the whole world.

I'll judge communism by its outcome when it is practiced. It can't possibly work in one country, it requires international revolution.

Not only did you just attack Communism again in that sentence but your so bloody wrong. Communism is about everyone getting a say and money being shared equally rather then some fat git from the arisdocrasy eating all the pie.

His point is that the promise of pie-sharing is made by communism, but sofar has never actually been kept.

Deep Kimichi, will you please stop attacking Communism and talk about Facism? And before you write a glorified from of "Communism is Fascism" i'll give you one good reason why there not. Communists welcome people of all religion, skin and type. Fascism does not.

How about you do the same for capitalism. And I mean look at the whole world.

I'll judge communism by its outcome when it is practiced. It can't possibly work in one country, it requires international revolution.
That's how I view capitalism as well. But there seem to be a lot of apologists for Communism, except that they will never apologize for the killings.

You can start with apologizing for the death of my grandparents, who were killed for the crime of being schoolteachers.

UK,East Midlands, Derbyshire, Chesterfield.

So your racism and bigotry can't be excused by a lack of contact with minorities then?

My friends too small to be hitler by 5-6". But put a moustache on him, and wow. He's pretty fluent in german too. And he's oddly enough a nazi in denial.

Hitler re-incarnated
Good for him! If I was a nazi I'd deny and deny and hopefully I'd eventually stop being a nazi! Or I'd kill myself..

That's what Communism in practice has always been...it has always been repressive, has always led to state control over everything, and has always been empty rhetoric used to hide government-sponsored looting on a vast scale. The theory doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't work in practice and Communism simply doesn't work on anything but the smallest scale, which makes it impossible to ever work.


actually, it is intended to function on the largest scale, that is world wide without a state to control anything.

Deep Kimichi, will you please stop attacking Communism and talk about Facism? And before you write a glorified from of "Communism is Fascism" i'll give you one good reason why there not. Communists welcome people of all religion, skin and type. Fascism does not.

Really? What about the Jewish Autonomous Oblast? The only reason for that was to corral the Jews in one area as far from the centers of production as possible...

I'm sorry Imperiux but your actually starting to make me feel sick. Its not that you try and find a good thing in something so messed up, but the fact is when horrible pictures of a ditch filled with hundreds of anorexic Jews you just take it and laugh at it like it was insignificant.

So your racism and bigotry can't be excused by a lack of contact with minorities then?
Erm... Evidence that I am racist?

Fascism is bad because it takes from the wealthy, and uses the money to support the intrests of one man's percieved views of his country's needs.

Communism is bad because it does the exact same thing, but to everybody, in the name of the leaders' percieved need for equality.

Solution: Get rid of government.

Anarchy rules! :mp5:

If I had to give up democracy, I would eagerly embrace Fascism over Communism. A Fascist state demands your obedience, but it doesn't (usually) confiscate your property in the name of "communal ownership" in a crusade against "the bourgeoisie" or some such group. It also makes more economic sense.

Naturally, I still want a say in my government, but if a Germany 1932 scenario were to descend upon America overnight, I'd have to say I'd be one of the Brownshirts.

That's how I view capitalism as well. But there seem to be a lot of apologists for Communism, except that they will never apologize for the killings.

You can start with apologizing for the death of my grandparents, who were killed for the crime of being schoolteachers.

tell me, were any anarcho-communists involved in their deaths?
I'm sure the answer is no.

In fact, the Bolsheviks massacred anarchists during the Russian Civil War.

I do not defend the Soviet Union.

I'm sorry Imperiux but your actually starting to make me feel sick. Its not that you try and find a good thing in something so messed up, but the fact is when horrible pictures of a ditch filled with hundreds of anorexic Jews you just take it and laugh at it like it was insignificant.
They weren't there last time. Must've been an update. And besided, I condemn concentration camps. They have appalling conditions.

actually, it is intended to function on the largest scale, that is world wide without a state to control anything.

But how do you do that without a state? Eventually, people would rebel against such a system and it would collapse of its own accord...in order for a worldwide revolution to occur, people would have to be irrevocably changed in regard to human nature.

For those debating, a small reminder:

Nazi Germany was NOT fascist.
Mussolinis Italy was.

Really? What about the Jewish Autonomous Oblast? The only reason for that was to corral the Jews in one area as far from the centers of production as possible...
I love the people who deliberately forget history. Now they'll say, "well, that was really a Russian thing, and not a Communist thing"

Results of Communism, even though it's not in the book.

Communism probably doesn't have anything nice to say about a people who formed a lot of the merchant and banking class, either.

That's how I view capitalism as well. But there seem to be a lot of apologists for Communism, except that they will never apologize for the killings.

You can start with apologizing for the death of my grandparents, who were killed for the crime of being schoolteachers.

Your problem is you view communists as this one homogenous mass when there are so many different currents within the movement: anarcho-communists, maoists, marxist-leninists (stalinists), trotskyists, and so on.

Even within those currents there are other factions. WIthin trotskyist circles for example you can have cliffites, orthodox trotskyists, shachtmanites, and so on.

So stop asking all of us to apologise for the crimes committed by people who followed a different belief system to us, and arguably, were in it just for personal gain.

If I could apologise for the death of your grandparents I would, unfortunately I do not support Juche ideology and even if I did, I wasn't responsible for their deaths.

I don't ask you to apologise for slavery, so why should I apologise for past crimes against humanity from so called communists?

For those debating, a small reminder:

Nazi Germany was NOT fascist.
Mussolinis Italy was.

And Italy deported its Jews to German concentration camps...

You really should read some Primo Levi, an Italian Jewish survivor of the concentration camps. His father was not so lucky.

DEEP KIMICHI! Will you please.....please....PLEASE....stop talking about Communism and actually start to mention the word Fascism without comparing it to Communism?!

And Italy deported its Jews to German concentration camps...

And with THAT one can attack Mussolini's fascist state. But not with the things the nazi's did independently.

But how do you do that without a state? Eventually, people would rebel against such a system and it would collapse of its own accord...in order for a worldwide revolution to occur, people would have to be irrevocably changed in regard to human nature.


give me scientific proof of what you say about human nature that does not rely on evidence from apes and maybe I'll care what you have to say. People always talk about human nature as if they aren't human themselves.

Why are people going to rebel against a system based on cooperation rather than competition? Doesn't make sense to me.

And with THAT one can attack Mussolini's fascist state. But not with the things the nazi's did independently.
Of course, the French, after their surrender, also deported their Jews willingly and with relish...

So maybe that's more of a cultural hatred of Jews...

Why are people going to rebel against a system based on cooperation rather than competition? Doesn't make sense to me.

Because people are naturally competitive. It all goes back to trying to spread your genes by impressing the opposite sex.

Because people are naturally competitive. It all goes back to trying to spread your genes by impressing the opposite sex.
Rather like waving your genitals about...

Oh, and Imperiux. I'd reccomend you read Anne Frank's Diary. A book about a young Jewish girl who had to hide with her family and friends for months because Jews were being deported out the country. Read how the conditions are so appalling and how the Jews are shoved together. Read how desperate the prisoners become so when someone dies instead of feeling remorse they simply only think about getting that person's belongings. Read how out of all of them, only the father surivives. That is why Fascism is hated. That is why it makes me sick to look at those pictures.

And Italy deported its Jews to German concentration camps...

You really should read some Primo Levi, an Italian Jewish survivor of the concentration camps. His father was not so lucky.
Dude, read some Italian history. That happened during the Republic of Salo which was a Nazi controlled puppet state. Mussolini didn't like the deportion of the Jews, but Hitler did not give him any power over the government and almost no military to fight with.

What do you want Mussolini to do? Risk the lives of every citizen in Salo when he has no ability to fight?

give me scientific proof of what you say about human nature that does not rely on evidence from apes and maybe I'll care what you have to say. People always talk about human nature as if they aren't human themselves.

All you have to do is look at the fact that corruption, selfishness, and greed exist in all human societies, and have existed since at least the dawn of humanity to know that an altruistic system will ultimately fail. This is also proven by the fact that all large-scale utopian experiments have failed, and the removal of government regulation of business results in a monopolistic free-for-all.

The existence of crime also supports this.

Oh, and Imperiux. I'd reccomend you read Anne Frank's Diary. A book about a young Jewish girl who had to hide with her family and friends for months because Jews were being deported out the country. Read how the conditions are so appalling and how the Jews are shoved together. Read how desperate the prisoners become so when someone dies instead of feeling remorse they simply only think about getting that person's belongings. Read how out of all of them, only the father surivives. That is why Fascism is hated. That is why it makes me sick to look at those pictures.
Already read it. Pretty awful how the Jews were treated. They shouldn't have been in there.

All you have to do is look at the fact that corruption, selfishness, and greed exist in all human societies, and have existed since at least the dawn of humanity to know that an altruistic system will ultimately fail. This is also proven by the fact that all large-scale utopian experiments have failed, and the removal of government regulation of business results in a monopolistic free-for-all.

The existence of crime also supports this.
Can I get an Amen?

I still want to see one of our resident fash reply to my post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10460401&postcount=56)

Imperiux, why do you think that the Swastiga was banned from going on Nation's flags in this website? Because it reminded Jews of the horror they suffered at the hands of a man trying to get into power by using fascism. Hitler didn't hate Jews. He simply just needed a scapegoat, someone to blame the war on, and there were the Jews, unable to defend themselves. All it took was one violent speech to spur the promising new government into a Fascist Regime.

Imperiux, why do you think that the Swastiga was banned from going on Nation's flags in this website? Because it reminded Jews of the horror they suffered at the hands of a man trying to get into power by using fascism. Hitler didn't hate Jews. He simply just needed a scapegoat, someone to blame the war on, and there were the Jews, unable to defend themselves. All it took was one violent speech to spur the promising new government into a Fascist Regime.

I still want to see one of our resident fash reply to my post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10460401&postcount=56)

I tottally disagree.

I tottally disagree.

In what way? In the defying facts sort of way?

Imperiux, why do you think that the Swastiga was banned from going on Nation's flags in this website? Because it reminded Jews of the horror they suffered at the hands of a man trying to get into power by using fascism. Hitler didn't hate Jews. He simply just needed a scapegoat, someone to blame the war on, and there were the Jews, unable to defend themselves. All it took was one violent speech to spur the promising new government into a Fascist Regime.

(Double post my friend)

Swastika was banned because some Jews found it offensive. But then what about the Hindu's who use it? As it is originally a hindu symbol of peace?

In what way? In the defying facts sort of way?

In the way I believe the exact opposite of everything you've said.

(Double post my friend)

Swastika was banned because some Jews found it offensive. But then what about the Hindu's who use it? As it is originally a hindu symbol of peace?

It wasn't just Jews - yet another sweeping generalisation on your part. More people than Jews found it offensive - many people did, including me. The Hindu one is slightly different, is it not? Twisted around the other way - the Nazi's perverted it to their own uses.

In the way I believe the exact opposite of everything you've said.

Why is it you never back up your arguments - for example, your list of reasons against immigrants that several posters tore apart, yet you never responded to back up with, say, evidence.

All you have to do is look at the fact that corruption, selfishness, and greed exist in all human societies, and have existed since at least the dawn of humanity to know that an altruistic system will ultimately fail. This is also proven by the fact that all large-scale utopian experiments have failed, and the removal of government regulation of business results in a monopolistic free-for-all.

The existence of crime also supports this.

"If crime is a natural human tendency
then why are most crimes commited
by people of the lower class? Crime is
natural only as a reaction to social injustice
and inequality; the more they force us down,
the more defiant we become. This means that
all the laws and all the policemen and all the
prisons aren't going to change a fucking thing,
they can only grow in numbers, waste more
of our labor and take more of our lives!"

I can't take credit for that, it's from my favorite band, the Pinkerton Thugs. But I do agree with everything it says.

It wasn't just Jews - yet another sweeping generalisation on your part. More people than Jews found it offensive - many people did, including me. The Hindu one is slightly different, is it not? Twisted around the other way - the Nazi's perverted it to their own uses.

It's actually the same. So do you ban a perverted symbol of peace still used today in Hindu countries or?

In the way I believe the exact opposite of everything you've said.

Oh so the fascists in Italy didnt murder thousands of socialists when they took power?

Oh so the fascists in Italy didnt murder thousands of socialists when they took power?
Did they? How interesting...
So that might have happened, I wasn't there and so can't believe it did.

Did they? How interesting...
So that might have happened, I wasn't there and so can't believe it did.

...

Thats brilliant. Simply brilliant. Hey - I wasn't around for the invasion of France in 1940 - so it didn't happen because I didn't see it!

God...

Why is it you never back up your arguments - for example, your list of reasons against immigrants that several posters tore apart, yet you never responded to back up with, say, evidence.

Because by some unfortunate reasoning, I am the ideal hate idol for every media source. Where everything I believe is rejected and there is very, very little legal evidence I can find to back up my personal beliefs.

Oh so the fascists in Italy didnt murder thousands of socialists when they took power?
Socialists and communists, when not shot on the spot, were shipped to German concentration camps.


Popular solution, those camps.

...

Thats brilliant. Simply brilliant. Hey - I wasn't around for the invasion of France in 1940 - so it didn't happen because I didn't see it!

God...

Try living my life for a day. You'd find out why I think like this.

I still want to see one of our resident fash reply to my post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10460401&postcount=56)
Took a while cuz I kept getting an error, but here.

1 . Yea, they did kill those who opposed them, but it was mainly communists and most were killed during the attempted communist takeover of Italy. Others were killed by the blackshirts for acting up of conspiring to act up.

2 . If that’s what you want to think go ahead.

3 . My friend, that’s the biggest problem facing the Fascist parties. We want the authoritarianism, but we don’t want to lose the option of removing our leaders if the become corrupt.

4. No, but lack of nationalism seems to lead to decay of Nations which is never good for the citizens. I’d comment on your addition of race in there, ut this is about Fascism, not Nazism.

Try living my life for a day. You'd find out why I think like this.

That's no explanation.

Try living my life for a day. You'd find out why I think like this.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. By your line of argument, anything past, let us say 1993, approximately when you were born, never happened because you weren't there. Hey, lets ignore primary sources, eye-witness accounts, historical texts, archive films, old documents...hell, they're all just lying, right? And you're not in, say, Iraq, so surely the war there isn't going on, right?

That makes absolutely no sense at all. By your line of argument, anything past, let us say 1993, approximately when you were born, never happened because you weren't there. Hey, lets ignore primary sources, eye-witness accounts, historical texts, archive films, old documents...hell, they're all just lying, right? And you're not in, say, Iraq, so surely the war there isn't going on, right?

Well if anything past 1993 didn't happen then I wouldn't be born.

And I'm not denying something ever happened, just not believing it.

Little difference in most people's minds but, most people don't want or have my mind.

Oh so the fascists in Italy didnt murder thousands of socialists when they took power?
Oh they did, but only because they were in the middle of an attempted communist revolution in northern Italy. The communists contiinued to conspire against the Fascists in Italy and in my mind that earned them their punishment. Death may have been a bit too harsh, but it was all the rage back then.

Well if anything past 1993 didn't happen then I wouldn't be born.

And I'm not denying something ever happened, just not believing it.

Little difference in most people's minds but, most people don't want or have my mind.

So you don't believe in things just because you weren't around when they happened?

What a strange chap you are.

So you don't believe in things just because you weren't around when they happened?

What a strange chap you are.

Thank you for that compliment.

"But I'm not weird, everyone else is"

Philosophy, Me, Two minutes and 43 seconds before this post.

Well if anything past 1993 didn't happen then I wouldn't be born.

And I'm not denying something ever happened, just not believing it.

Little difference in most people's minds but, most people don't want or have my mind.
I've been to Auschwitz and Dachau.

Met Holocaust survivors and heard their stories.

Met former SS men and heard their stories.

It isn't made up. It was real.

Maybe you need to visit.

I've been to Auschwitz and Dachau.

Met Holocaust survivors and heard their stories.

Met former SS men and heard their stories.

It isn't made up. It was real.

Maybe you need to visit.

But he wasn't there, so how could it have happened? Or maybe it did happen, he just doesn't believe it did. Which makes absolutely no sense.

I've been to Auschwitz and Dachau.

Met Holocaust survivors and heard their stories.

Met former SS men and heard their stories.

It isn't made up. It was real.

Maybe you need to visit.

I know the war was real. I've been to the Tyne Cot cemetry in Belgium on a school trip.

Doubt rules over all

Dude, read some Italian history. That happened during the Republic of Salo which was a Nazi controlled puppet state. Mussolini didn't like the deportion of the Jews, but Hitler did not give him any power over the government and almost no military to fight with.

What do you want Mussolini to do? Risk the lives of every citizen in Salo when he has no ability to fight?Oh please. Like Mussolini was some kind of hero...
Just because he didn't share Hitler's intense hatred for Jews doesn't make him any less a megalomaniac.

I've been to Auschwitz and Dachau.

Met Holocaust survivors and heard their stories.

Met former SS men and heard their stories.

It isn't made up. It was real.

Maybe you need to visit.

I'm sure you'd absolutely love Poland. Sadly it's swarming with Slavish untermensch, but at least there are no blacks.

1 . Yea, they did kill those who opposed them, but it was mainly communists and most were killed during the attempted communist takeover of Italy. Others were killed by the blackshirts for acting up of conspiring to act up.

2 . If that’s what you want to think go ahead.

3 . My friend, that’s the biggest problem facing the Fascist parties. We want the authoritarianism, but we don’t want to lose the option of removing our leaders if the become corrupt.

4. No, but lack of nationalism seems to lead to decay of Nations which is never good for the citizens. I’d comment on your addition of race in there, ut this is about Fascism, not Nazism.

1) Nope. The bavarian uprising died out pretty quickly. Fact is, even if you are right about the communists violently threatening your state, why did mussolini have so many socialists killed as well? You know, socialists- the ones who dont use violence.

2) That's not what I think, it's what I know.

3) It's not the biggest problem- it's the inherent contradiction. You want to free the people through slavery to a dictator

4) So basically you exploit nationalism to get the people to act better, even if you don't personally believe in it?

I know the war was real. I've been to the Tyne Cot cemetry in Belgium on a school trip.

Doubt rules over all
I'm not talking about the war. I'm talking about the Holocaust.

Oh please. Like Mussolini was some kind of hero...
Just because he didn't share Hitler's intense hatred for Jews doesn't make him any less a megalomaniac.

Still, I'd be more prepared to idolize mussolini. He didn't have a ridiculous moustache.

I'm sure you'd absolutely love Poland. Sadly it's swarming with Slavish untermensch, but at least there are no blacks.
That has to be the stupidest thing I've seen posted on NS.

That has to be the stupidest thing I've seen posted on NS.

Sorry, I don't normally put [sarcasm] blocks around sarcasm.

Sorry, I don't normally put [sarcasm] blocks around sarcasm.

Hell, even I didn't get that. For that to be sarcasm, DK would have to be a Nazi or ex-SS or somesuch...

Erm.. Back to the topic and the blasting of myself? Eh chums?

Oh please. Like Mussolini was some kind of hero...
Just because he didn't share Hitler's intense hatred for Jews doesn't make him any less a megalomaniac.
Who called him a hero? I consider him a coward for backing down from his anti-Nazism when he couldn't get the British and French to join him in a war against Hitler.

1) Nope. The bavarian uprising died out pretty quickly. Fact is, even if you are right about the communists violently threatening your state, why did mussolini have so many socialists killed as well? You know, socialists- the ones who dont use violence.

2) That's not what I think, it's what I know.

3) It's not the biggest problem- it's the inherent contradiction. You want to free the people through slavery to a dictator

4) So basically you exploit nationalism to get the people to act better, even if you don't personally believe in it?
1. The revolution is how the Fascists came to power in the first place. It's what they continued to fight against. the actual revolution died down, but there were still armed bands of communists fighting the bands of Fascists. [And no, I'm not trying to ay the Fascists didn't start the fighting, just that the communists werent just victims].
2. No, it's what you think.
3. Never said anything about freedom.
4. Who said I don't believe in Nationalism. That's just my argument as to why more people should be nationalists.

Oh they did, but only because they were in the middle of an attempted communist revolution in northern Italy. The communists contiinued to conspire against the Fascists in Italy and in my mind that earned them their punishment. Death may have been a bit too harsh, but it was all the rage back then.
You're just stupid. This may be flaming, but so is Fascist propaganda.

Erm.. Back to the topic and the blasting of myself? Eh chums?

Hmmm...I'd been suspecting for quite some time, but now I'm quite sure. You're either a puppet or are baiting us just for the fun of it.

Don't dis Fascism.

Hmmm...I'd been suspecting for quite some time, but now I'm quite sure. You're either a puppet or are baiting us just for the fun of it.

I'm no puppet. And baiting?

Imperiux,

Just out of curiosity, what is it about the area you live in, or whatever, that makes the idea of fascism appealing?

I'm no puppet. And baiting?
Yes, 'baiting... you are thirteen, afterall!

Imperiux,

Just out of curiosity, what is it about the area you live in, or whatever, that makes the idea of fascism appealing?

Nothing much...

Yes, 'baiting... you are thirteen, afterall!

And you, sex symbol?

What;s thirteen got to do with it?

This is a sex symbol *snaps fingers and points* game set and match girlfriend

What;s thirteen got to do with it?



It excuses your immaturity and ignorance, but only to a degree. Being as bigoted as you requires real hard graft.

And you, sex symbol?

What;s thirteen got to do with it?

This is a sex symbol *snaps fingers and points* game set and match girlfriend
ah.. the foibles of youth..

It excuses your immaturity and ignorance, but only to a degree. Being as bigoted as you requires real hard graft.

And I believe that deserves a thank you too. Maybe it explains my immaturity, but ignorance? I doubt anyone can be ignorant. So...

"I'm not weird. Everyone else is."

Sorry you guys, I've had fun arguing with you, but I have to go. My cat is hungry and I'm out of food, so I've got to head down to the store.

If this topic doesn't decend anymore into personal insults I'll continue to participate.

And I believe that deserves a thank you too. Maybe it explains my immaturity, but ignorance? I doubt anyone can be ignorant. So...

"I'm not weird. Everyone else is."
You're not wierd.. that's just what people who are not comfortable with their own individuality say.. as if they are any different.. You have however failed to give any logical justification for your fascism which would give people the impression that you are quite ignorant..

You're not wierd.. that's just what people who are not comfortable with their own individuality say.. as if they are any different.. You have however failed to give any logical justification for your fascism which would give people the impression that you are quite ignorant..

Everyone's guilty of ignorance.

I fail to find a single piece of evidence backing up my thoughts and ideas which preludes to the answer... I'm just that way

Why is nearly everybody against fascism? I'm not sure what I am. Maybe a few of you have some ideas. But what is the deal with fascism? It's helped a lot of countries grow economically, and helped in many other ways.

Because individualism is the guiding philosophy of a vast majority of people in the West and fascism is the antithesis.

In what ways has fascism helped many countries?

So who is the biggest fascist of all time? Hitler dosn't count, he's Nazi. I think maybe Mussolini or Franco? Ideas anyone?

Holocaust denier jailed. Irving something. Anyone interested?

Why is nearly everybody against fascism?
Perhaps because fascism seeks to eliminate choice and to expand the State? Doesn't sound like much fun to me.
But what is the deal with fascism? It's helped a lot of countries grow economically, and helped in many other ways.
In what way has it helped countries? When I look at history, it sure looks to me like all the fascist countries got run into the ground by war.

So who is the biggest fascist of all time? Hitler dosn't count, he's Nazi. I think maybe Mussolini or Franco? Ideas anyone?
Franco wasn't really Fascist. Part of his movement was - the proto-Falange of Primo de Rivera Jr.

Wait a minute. You're not even old enough to shave, yet you think Fascism is a reasonable form of government?

Grow up.

Franco wasn't really Fascist. Part of his movement was - the proto-Falange of Primo de Rivera Jr.
Franco invented Fascism. So how he can not be fascist eludes us.

Franco invented Fascism. So how he can not be fascist eludes us.
What? Where did you get that crap from? It is not even chronologically accurate.

Wait a minute. You're not even old enough to shave, yet you think Fascism is a reasonable form of government?

Grow up.

And? I'm still growing up. You're still growing up. Everyone's growing up.

And it's still a reasonable form of government.

What? Where did you get that crap from? It is not even chronologically accurate.

Don't bother. He doesn't have a fucking clue, man.

What? Where did you get that crap from? It is not even chronologically accurate.
Well if it's not accurate, explains the american history book I bought.

And it's still a reasonable form of government.

No, it isn't. You're just infatuated with its "power".

Fascism is just as bad as Statist "Communism".

No, it isn't. You're just infatuated with its "power".

Fascism is just as bad as Statist "Communism".

And if I'm anything to go by, they're both excellent forms of government.

Modernise, comes to mind.

Don't bother. He doesn't have a fucking clue, man.
On another forum, he stated he was a communist. He did it at the very same time he was writing about "reasonable Fascism".
I guess you're right. But sometimes I have the need to get some sense in these little heads. "Perhaps", I think to myself, "they will thank good old Argesia some day. Perhaps they'll think twice before creating a manure-based bomb to blow up a government building". Sigh.

And if I'm anything to go by, they're both excellent forms of government.

Modernise, comes to mind.

Modern, eh? They're hardly "modern" when compared to Anarchies. Totalitarianism is crude and barbaric.

On another forum, he stated he was a communist. He did it at the very same time he was writing about "reasonable Fascism".
I guess you're right. But sometimes I have the need to get some sense in these little heads. "Perhaps", I think to myself, "they will thank good old Argesia some day. Perhaps they'll think twice before creating a manure-based bomb to blow up a government building". Sigh.

Yeah, I actually feel that way, too. I guess that's why I always end up posting in these threads, no matter how many times I tell myself to just let it go.

I'm a communist fascist. So what? Sue me? Just because I believe in two contradicting idologies dosn't make me any worse of a person than you argesia, or potarius.

Well if it's not accurate, explains the american history book I bought.

Get a better one then, Mousollini (however the fuck you spell his name) invented Facism, atleast to the point of being the first Facist to successfully take power over a country.

At any rate, Facism is flawed for a number of reasons. It would never work in the long term ESPECIALLY in the west, as you have seen. When Franco died, Spain quickly became a democracy. The main facists of WW2 were dominated and facism died.

As for personal reasons, I prefer my individuality and freemdoms. Fuck anyone who wants to take those away.

Modern, eh? They're hardly "modern" when compared to Anarchies. Totalitarianism is crude and barbaric.
Meh. 'Nother good form of government.

I'm a communist fascist. So what? Sue me? Just because I believe in two contradicting idologies dosn't make me any worse of a person than you argesia, or potarius.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Educate yourself, and look before you leap.

If you happen to be the one in charge, or one of his/her chosen, you're going to love fascism. If you're not in charge, or happen to be a targetted minority (Jewish, Gypsy, etc.) you'll hate it. I personally, prefer something else.

I'm going through the crappy UK education system right now. So i'm halfway to doing what you want me to do.
And so what if it's ridiclous? I don't give a damn.

Meh. 'Nother good form of government.

It gets things done as it eliminates the process of debating decisions, the leader makes arbitrary decisions. He's the boss. But have you ever wondered why democracies like the US, Canada, France and England have lasted so long as democracies? Because PEOPLE like them. The PEOPLE give the government its power. If you piss off the people, it doesn't matter how good of a dictator you are, you're going to be ass-raped like a little woman in jail.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Educate yourself, and look before you leap.
It's weird, but in a way he's accurate. He's standing in the same ideological soup that created Fascism: anarchy from the Cercle Proudhon, Marxism from the Trotskyist tactics Mussolini admired, irredentism from Corradini.
Hey, Imperiux, do you like Futurist art?

Wait a minute. You're not even old enough to shave, yet you think Fascism is a reasonable form of government?

Grow up.

Aha, I spy youth oppression!


Fascism is just as bad as Statist "Communism".

Hey! Thats what the anarchists who physically assualt revo members say!

Oh, and look into national bolshevism, it would suit you to a t

I'm going through the crappy UK education system right now. So i'm halfway to doing what you want me to do.
And so what if it's ridiclous? I don't give a damn.

You really should, then. Actually giving a damn about this sort of thing will help you look intelligent, which is the polar opposite of how you're looking right about now.

It's weird, but in a way he's accurate. He's standing in the same ideological soup that created Fascism: anarchy from the Cercle Proudhon, Marxism from the Trotskyist tactics Mussolini admired, irredentism from Corradini.
Hey, Imperiux, do you like Futurist art?

Wait let me google it...

Yeah it's pretty cool. My friend would hate it though. Put a moustache on him and he'd look like mini-mini-hitler. He speaks fluent german and is a nazi in denial.

Hitler's reincarnation.

Aha, I spy youth oppression!



Hey! Thats what the anarchists who physically assualt revo members say!
Is the Trotkyite Makhno killer forming the natural alliance with Fascists?

You really should, then. Actually giving a damn about this sort of thing will help you look intelligent, which is the polar opposite of how you're looking right about now.

I don't care how I look. I could be gorge bush's lookalike and not give a damn.

What is true intelligence?

Wait let me google it...

Yeah it's pretty cool. My friend would hate it though. Put a moustache on him and he'd look like mini-mini-hitler. He speaks fluent german and is a nazi in denial.

Hitler's reincarnation.

How ironic, Hitler was an artist.:p

How ironic, Hitler was an artist.:p

A pretty poor one, at that.

Is the Trotkyite Makhno killer forming the natural alliance with Fascists?

Okay. I've had about enough of this. Don't compare me to a fascist. You're as bad as Deep Kimchi when you resort to those arguments.

How ironic, Hitler was an artist.:p
Yeah, but he didn't like "degenarate" art. One of the many problems he had with Mussolini, as the latter was a patron of Modernism.

How ironic, Hitler was an artist.:p
More classical though. My friend prefers classical art too. Hates surrealism. The second most beautiful art form to futurist art.

Why was I not informed of the worlds artificial beauty earlier? Maybe I would not be the teen I am today?

I see nothing wrong with fascism; National socialism, yes, but not fascism.

Okay. I've had about enough of this. Don't compare me to a fascist. You're as bad as Deep Kimchi when you resort to those arguments.
Ever heard of the leftist Monteneros?


Sorry, man. I was stressing a point through a hyperbola. But connections did exist, mainly through circumstance. I am not using this as an accusation, I just find it a topic worth looking into.

I see nothing wrong with fascism; National socialism, yes, but not fascism.
Anymore common sense?

I remeber in my school there was a facist kid, since he was about 14.
Eventually he started moaning about too many asian people being in this country, and this big tough Indian kid kicked his ass. Everyone watched and cheered.

Good times.

Hmmm, just googled the futurist art. Yanno, aside from the ties with facism, that art is kind of cool. An image of a giant, mechanincal dog...or horse...whatever the hell those thigns were, racing. Very nice.

It's weird, but in a way he's accurate. He's standing in the same ideological soup that created Fascism: anarchy from the Cercle Proudhon, Marxism from the Trotskyist tactics Mussolini admired, irredentism from Corradini.
Hey, Imperiux, do you like Futurist art?
Whos accurate, standing in some sort of soup.
And why are you asking me whether I like futurist art?

I remeber in my school there was a facist kid, since he was about 14.
Eventually he started moaning about too many asian people being in this country, and this big tough Indian kid kicked his ass. Everyone watched and cheered.

Good times.

So we have to repect the majority minority but don't bother about the minority minority?

Pretty democratic society.

Hmmm, just googled the futurist art. Yanno, aside from the ties with facism, that art is kind of cool. An image of a giant, mechanincal dog...or horse...whatever the hell those thigns were, racing. Very nice.

I demand to know all the beauties of art. I cannot resist it. Must have more art!

Meh. It seems like a decent enough type of government.

It's everything that's bad about dictatorial communist governments except that it doesn't even support the oppressed. It supports the oppressors. That is essentially its only function. To make sure that the people who have it bad continue to have it bad.

It's everything that's bad about dictatorial communist governments except that it doesn't even support the oppressed. It supports the oppressors. That is essentially its only function. To make sure that the people who have it bad continue to have it bad.

Or good. Maybe you should look at it from another angle? 45C degrees maybe?

we're taught that after the war
the nazis vanished without a trace
but batallions of fascists
still dream of a master race
the history books they tell of their defeat in 45
why did they all come out of the woodwork
on the day the nazi died

they say the Prisoner of Spandau
was a symbol of defeat
whilst Hess remained imprisoned
then the fascists they were beat
so the promise of an aryan world would never materialize
so why did they all come out of the woodwork
on the day the nazi died

the world is ridden by maggots
the maggots are getting fat
they're making a tasty meal
of all the bosses and bureacrats
they're taking over the board rooms
and they're fat and full of pride
and they all came out of the woodwork
on the day the nazi died

so if you meet with these historians
i'll tell you what to say
tell them that the nazis never really went away
they're out there burning houses down
and they're peddling racist lies
and we'll never rest again
until every nazi dies

I love that song.

Whos accurate, standing in some sort of soup.
And why are you asking me whether I like futurist art?
You are accurate (well, strangely so) about "perfection" to be found in contrary ideologies - Communism, Anarchy, National Syndicalism. Mussolini started with the same attraction to ireconcilable fallacies.
1. Cercle Proudhon (around 1911) - it took the Anarcho-Syndicalism of Proudhon and merged it with "integralism" (a reactionary thought, arguing that real politics stem from a "spirit of the nation"). So much so, that it is thought by some historians to have created the first fascism.
2. Marxism - Mussolini studied Marx, copied Trotsky, and admired Lenin to the point of naming his Party police after the Cheka. He himself had been for long a member of the Socialist Party.
3. National Syndicalism - advertised itself as the "real revolution", and ammended Marxism to mean industry=nation. That is: workers were to see the danger in competition from other workers (in other countries), and seek to achieve socialism within a state (created with funds from prolonged Imperialism - colonies as a source for a welfera state in the metropolis). They backed Italy's entry into WWI, and created the Fasci that Mussolini took over.


Futurism was the art form for this ecclectic nonesense. (Don't get me wrong, as an art it can be sheer beauty.)

And I didn't even know a thing. Shows how resourceful I am.

And I didn't even know a thing. Shows how resourceful I am.
Or it shows how limited people have limited choices.

True enough, Facism has major flaws. But so do all systems of government, which is what riles me about pro-capitalism and democracy. They have their problems, there's no such thing as "if it ain't broke don't fix it" with governments.

And being facist or communist doesn't mean commiting genocides. That is independent of the system, and down to the opinions of its power source. Democratic countries, if there is enough hatred in the voting populace, can be just as vindictive *cough-israel-cough*.

I agree that for the majority of people, the hostility to Facism is more about the general bad taste in their mouth from its connotations than the system's actual merits or flaws. It is an understandable reflex of those who see things as good and evil, not as conflicting opinion or subtle corruption.

And National Socialism is Fascism because?

Do you even know what a Facist government is ?

Incase your unclear, a big hint would be.. "a political ideology that seeks to regenerate social, economic, and cultural life of a country by basing it on a heightened sense of national belonging or ethnic idenity, rejecting ideas such as freedom and individual rights"

Also realize, Hitler based his governmental style on Mussolini's regime... so... just who do you think founded Facisim ?

http://encarta.msn.com/related_761568245/Fascism.html

National Socialism, is an ideology founded on the bases of fascism.

"Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity, quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace."
Benito Mussolini

I don't know about you all, but the idea of being perpetually at war with someone or something to be distasteful at the least.

"Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity, quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace."
Benito Mussolini

I don't know about you all, but the idea of being perpetually at war with someone or something to be distasteful at the least.

Well you can't have peace without war so, paradox.

National Socialism, is an ideology founded on the bases of fascism.

which is essentially the same thing, since it utilizes all of the principles of facism, and has the same goals as facisim (utilizing centralizied governmental controls, highly militaristic, focusing on nationalism and homogonized ethnicity.)

which is essentially the same thing, since it utilizes all of the principles of facism, and has the same goals as facisim (utilizing centralizied governmental controls, highly militaristic, focusing on nationalism and homogonized ethnicity.)
To be fais, Fascism did not focus on a homogenized ethnicity as a rule.

which is essentially the same thing, since it utilizes all of the principles of facism, and has the same goals as facisim (utilizing centralizied governmental controls, highly militaristic, focusing on nationalism and homogonized ethnicity.)

Except it goes way more extreme.

To be fais, Fascism did not focus on a homogenized ethnicity as a rule.

whether or not it was a proclaimed rule, it is an inevitable outcome given the radical nature of a system which is so highly dependent on Nationalism, a system which by its nature is dependent on common ethnic roots and cultural homogenization.

whether or not it was a proclaimed rule, it is an inevitable outcome given the radical nature of a system which is so highly dependent on Nationalism, a system which by its nature is dependent on common ethnic roots and cultural homogenization.

Yay! Nationalism! When do we get to talk about patriotism?

Bunch of fluffy people,:fluffle:

Well you can't have peace without war so, paradox.

that's one of the least intelligent things I've heard in a while. Peace, as defined by none lesser than Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is either the absence of tention (negative peace) or the presence of justice (positive peace). In the simplest terms, it is the absence of conflict. Yes, if you end conflict and injustice permanently (no small task) you have peace without war.

Yay! Nationalism! When do we get to talk about patriotism?

Bunch of fluffy people,:fluffle:

The difference being, patriotism is a system which focus's on the STATE rather then the NATION. Two very different words having very different outcomes when it comes to patriotism and nationalism.

that's one of the least intelligent things I've heard in a while. Peace, as defined by none lesser than Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is either the absence of tention (negative peace) or the presence of justice (positive peace). In the simplest terms, it is the absence of conflict. Yes, if you end conflict and injustice permanently (no small task) you have peace without war.
Uh huh. So if you can have peace without war, explain an up without a down.

whether or not it was a proclaimed rule, it is an inevitable outcome given the radical nature of a system which is so highly dependent on Nationalism, a system which by its nature is dependent on common ethnic roots and cultural homogenization.
Well, yes and no. I mean, the image of nation in Italy did not imply ethnocentrism - it was as "Jacobin" as to say all natives of Italy are Italian. It took a lot of pressure from Germany to get them to become (never fully) Volkisch - the racial laws are usually cited as an example, but a complete example should include a mention of how the German twisted Mussolini's arm to admit that ethnic Germans in Southern Tyrol were not Italian.
This, of course, is not by far an apology of Fascism.

Uh huh. So if you can have peace without war, explain an up without a down.

that's a retarded analogy, peace and war are situations created by people, up and down are not...

but let me put it this way. Without war, you wouldn't need to identify peace using a word that essentially means the absence of war (though as I said, echoing Dr. King, true peace means much more), but it would exist nonetheless.

If there's no more war, what do you have then?

You might not need to bother calling it peace, but it would exist nonetheless.

you're just trying to play a stupid word game with me.

that's a retarded analogy, peace and war are situations created by people, up and down are not...

but let me put it this way. Without war, you wouldn't need to identify peace using a word that essentially means the absence of war (though as I said, echoing Dr. King, true peace means much more), but it would exist nonetheless.

If there's no more war, what do you have then?

You might not need to bother calling it peace, but it would exist nonetheless.

you're just trying to play a stupid word game with me.

Scrabble isn't stupid. Just because I got a triple word score

Scrabble isn't stupid. Just because I got a triple word score

What the hell are you talking about? I dunno if you're trying to call your previous comment a triple word score, or what, but you clearly don't get it. You made a stupid comment and used an analogy that didn't work. The truth is that the absence of war can in fact exist without war. If there's no war, what else do you have.

What the hell are you talking about? I dunno if you're trying to call your previous comment a triple word score, or what, but you clearly don't get it. You made a stupid comment and used an analogy that didn't work. The truth is that the absence of war can in fact exist without war. If there's no war, what else do you have.

Somehow in my mind, that's contradicting. Because people call the absence of war peace, but then peace cannot exist without war. But war can exist without peace. And so forth.

the fact remains that if no one is fighting and justice is present in the society, there is the condition that we call peace. Not saying anyone will, but theoretically, war can be ended forever, in which case you have peace without anymore war. You're messing around with the words themselves instead of focusing on what they refer to.

That's your interpretation. It just dosn't seem possible. It seems impossible.

Okay. To define Nazism from Fascism. I have this Picture.

Nazism (http://u-f-a.org.ru/arh_im/antifa/fascism.jpg)
Fascism (http://members.shaw.ca/flickharrison/stock/youthposter.gif)

Get the idea? Goodbye for now.

please explain yourself without relying on word game analogies.

please explain yourself without relying on word game analogies.
I used to think Bakunin was one of the more hilarious figures in history, because he died trying to crimp a blasting cap with his teeth (something you just don't keep getting away with).

The detonation apparently didn't mess his head up, but the shock of detonation thrashed his brain and killed him.

that's funny enough I guess...

that's funny enough I guess...
I can only imagine what his comrades thought.

"You know, I always told him to use a crimping tool..."

"Hey, he doesn't look too bad. The funeral home did a good job."

"That doesn't look like Bakunin. Are you sure?"

The "info" about Bakunin is bullshit.

The "info" about Bakunin is bullshit.
It's what they taught us in demolition class, along with why you shouldn't crimp with your teeth.

Maybe an urban legend, but it is funny.

Why is nearly everybody against fascism? I'm not sure what I am. Maybe a few of you have some ideas. But what is the deal with fascism? It's helped a lot of countries grow economically, and helped in many other ways.

Anyone?

Fascism by Google (http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=Fascism&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images)

Now I'm sue I'm a blatant fascist.
Now, here we have one of the funniest sub-species in NS forums, the "teenager-whit-nothing-to-do-apart-of-joining-an-ideology-he-doesen't-undertands (TWNTDAOJAIHDA)" or, liked they are used to be called "an abuse of the freedom of speech" or, as I like to call them, little maggots who doesn't know where are they getting into.
As in my riddiculous latinamerican Thirld world country (Argentina) we had suffered fascists governments (and somebody could say we are suffering them now) I may advice the readers of this quote about the dangers of trying to reason whit a fascist, which include serious headache, confussion and the general sensation of talking to a wall. After several years of a pro-liberal cruzade, I determined that the TWNTDAOJAIHDA are the most useless and irrational part of the human kind. Therefore, I advise the most honorable members of this forum not to try to razonate in any way whit this particular moron
Thank you, and may god bless Assconia
:D

To be fais, Fascism did not focus on a homogenized ethnicity as a rule.
no, they just killed jews and gays and destroyed the free press,

no, they just killed jews and gays and destroyed the free press,
Did you follow my point? It was about Italian Fascism, and I did not say that it was "a positive thing" or anything like that. Incidentally, if need be, it is A FACT that Fascism (by which, again, I mean Italian Fascism) did not have a racialist conception. Out of the million proofs I could cite: read Primo Levi's account of how he was arrested by Fascist authorities (after taking part in Resistance), who did not force him to state his Jewishness - because that would have meant going with the Germans to "the East". He nonetheless chose to state his race, and was taken in custody by the Nazis (this was after Sept. 1943). When he got out of Auschwitz, he got in contact with his mother and sister - who had not even been evicted from their house in Northern Italy!

Also: destroying the free press (which both did), has nothing to do with ethnocentrism. You are not racist if you shut down newspapers.

no, they just killed jews and gays and destroyed the free press,
You're aware that Fascism is not the same as Nazism, right?

As why nobody likes fascism - two reasons:
1. A lot of bad press.
2. People like to think of themselves as rational, thinking beings. Fascism requires to be irrational and unthinking.

That's not to say of course that various governments and societies with fascist elements (primarily nationalism comes to mind) don't exist.

Fascists...the enemy of the State.

Did you follow my point? It was about Italian Fascism, and I did not say that it was "a positive thing" or anything like that. Incidentally, if need be, it is A FACT that Fascism (by which, again, I mean Italian Fascism) did not have a racialist conception. Out of the million proofs I could cite: read Primo Levi's account of how he was arrested by Fascist authorities (after taking part in Resistance), who did not force him to state his Jewishness - because that would have meant going with the Germans to "the East". He nonetheless chose to state his race, and was taken in custody by the Nazis (this was after Sept. 1943). When he got out of Auschwitz, he got in contact with his mother and sister - who had not even been evicted from their house in Northern Italy!

Also: destroying the free press (which both did), has nothing to do with ethnocentrism. You are not racist if you shut down newspapers.


Sorry for my gaffe. I got late into the conversation and skipped some parts in order to get to the point fast.