NationStates Jolt Archive

I did a forum search and couldn't find this, but I don't think theres any way that this isn't already a repeat... but just in case:

http://www.break.com/index/britishiraq12.html

Comments? I'm thinking Abu Gharib all over again.

(Waiting for the "It's just a few bad apples" explanation by the gov't...)

And?

Maybe if we weren't on a leash held by the US and didn't have a gag in our mouth we wouldn't be there.

Indifference

(Waiting for the "It's just a few bad apples" explanation by the gov't...)
Actually, unless I'm mistaken the British govt' said this was unacceptable and that it would press legal charges on whoever was responsible. Now, we'll have to wait and see if they actually find real culprits, or just court martial low-graded soldiers as scapegoats.

But at least they're publically denouncing it, instead of denying the fact or minimizing them as "harmless frat pranks" like the american administration has done.

I've always thought that the British are more accountable for their actions, and I think that is a good thing.

And?

Maybe if we weren't on a leash held by the US and didn't have a gag in our mouth we wouldn't be there.

Indifference

That is a horrible excuse. Just because "America dragged you into the war," as you put it, is no excuse for the British soldiers to behave this way.

We already hashed through

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468563

Oh, Yeah!!!

*does a little dance*

finally, a wartime scandal in which the us can't be implicated.

And?

Maybe if we weren't on a leash held by the US and didn't have a gag in our mouth we wouldn't be there.

Indifference
And that justifies them acting in this manor? personaly I dont think there can be any justification

Oh, Yeah!!!

*does a little dance*

finally, a wartime scandal in which the us can't be implicated.
These kids get beat and all you think this is "dance" worthy just because it happened to not be the US this time

Wow

I have no regrets for my posts whatsoever. But I am totally apalled by the comments made by Funky Evil. Everything in Iraq implicates the US, because they started it.

I have no regrets for my posts whatsoever. But I am totally apalled by the comments made by Funky Evil. Everything in Iraq implicates the US, because they started it.
The war yes
This beating no

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Mmmhmm? And how do you come to that answer?

The war yes
This beating no
Technically speaking, there would have been no beating without a war to begin with. And let's face it, the US troops aren't exactly giving most iraqui hugs and fluffles either. One would expect them to give the example.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Mmmhmm? And how do you come to that answer?
The british troops carried out and perpretrating the beating

Regardless of why they were there they are the one that carried out

No one but themselfs are to blame for this

Technically speaking, there would have been no beating without a war to begin with. And let's face it, the US troops aren't exactly giving most iraqui hugs and fluffles either. One would expect them to give the example.
I understand but you could say that this is also ultimately Europe's fault because if they had not founded America there would be no America to attack the middle east either

But that would just be passing the buck for the responsibility of the people that actually perpetrated this

It's a shame because most teenagers don't live in Iraq, how unlucky...

After watching the video, apart from being appalled, it struck me that this is not an isolated incident and that for the troops involved this was normal practise. Just watch how many troops walk past the beating as if it's an everyday occurence, coupled with the bizarre dialogue from the guy holding the camera.
Ask yourself are we there to give a country law, order and democracy? It had law and order before, we didn't like it so we broke it apart, destroyed the infrastructure, destroyed many innocent civilians, destroyed their homes their jobs and in many cases their raison d'etre. But hey big pat on the back mission accomplished we have given them democracy (as long as we approve of the candidates). We have also given them the chance to get a good kick in whenever the whim takes us or the opportunity to brutally humiliate them so we can take snapshots for our family albums back home. If I was an Iraqi right now I'm not sure I'd be saying God Bless the coalition forces!!

Sorry went a bit off track there and just burnt my pasta too.........pants.

I understand but you could say that this is also ultimately Europe's fault because if they had not founded America there would be no America to attack the middle east either

But that would just be passing the buck for the responsibility of the people that actually perpetrated this
*rolleyes* All I'm saying is that this is the USA's war. Since they are in charge, and the Brits helping, I would expect the US army to be taking measures to ensure the safety of iraqi.

With the scandals at Abu Ghraib, and with their nasty habit of shooting first and asking questions after, they haven't exactly built a climate that shows clearly to everyone that abuse of iraqi will not be tolerated.

I'm not shifting the responsibility from the British army here. They are solely responsible for the actions of their soldiers. But maybe this could have been avoided with a tougher policy from the main occupying power towards such cowardly acts against iraqi civillians.

Can I just say something. First of all, the teens beaten up were rioting. No, that isn't an excuse for beating but that shows that the troops didn't just waltz over and beat them up for no reason. And secondly, the commentator has an American accent. This can not only show that the USA may have been involved but also that an Iraqi with a American English accent was commentating.

Can I just say something. First of all, the teens beaten up were rioting. No, that isn't an excuse for beating but that shows that the troops didn't just waltz over and beat them up for no reason.
And they'd just chucked a grenade into the British compound, which the video as presented neglects to show.

The most annoying thing was that the Media blew it all over the place, and it wasn't until atleast a week afterwards when they actually mentioned the teens rioting and, if its correct, using weapons against the soldiers. Oh, and earlier on about the troops just walking by, when the rest of the troops actually went in the place where the beating was all they saw where handcuffed teens, so they had no idea they had been beaten up.

Oh, and that crappy commentator gave the game away when he showed his foreign accent when saying "Naughty little boys!"

If that voice over wasn't the fakest shit ever.

It never showed what the teens did to deserve an asswhoopin, but that doesn't mean they're completely innocent. I've been beat worse by my own teamates at wrestling camp.

I smell anti-western propaganda afoot.

Not saying that the soldiers weren't out of hand I'm just saying there are way too many unknowns to simply go "I t3h Outrage!".

*rolleyes* All I'm saying is that this is the USA's war. Since they are in charge, and the Brits helping, I would expect the US army to be taking measures to ensure the safety of iraqi.

With the scandals at Abu Ghraib, and with their nasty habit of shooting first and asking questions after, they haven't exactly built a climate that shows clearly to everyone that abuse of iraqi will not be tolerated.

I'm not shifting the responsibility from the British army here. They are solely responsible for the actions of their soldiers. But maybe this could have been avoided with a tougher policy from the main occupying power towards such cowardly acts against iraqi civillians.
Here and I thought most civilized countries would recognize taking someone and beating them in such a manner is not acceptable

Silly me I guess common sense is not so common any more.

Next addition to the allied “What not to do book” will have that subheading I guess sense people have the need to have that spelled out

I also thought there was common sense in the world, including the fact you need to take some form of action against youths if they chucked a bloody explosive in the compound. Oh wait, I forgot, the tabloids said that Brits beat them up and said nothing about a grenade or rioting so it must be true.

Jeez, the Media are turning everyone into a bunch of single minded lap dogs. Try using your iniative instead of quoting the press.

Can I just say something. First of all, the teens beaten up were rioting. No, that isn't an excuse for beating but that shows that the troops didn't just waltz over and beat them up for no reason. And secondly, the commentator has an American accent. This can not only show that the USA may have been involved but also that an Iraqi with a American English accent was commentating.

I believe the BBC has established that the video taper was a British Army Corporal.

Here and I thought most civilized countries would recognize taking someone and beating them in such a manner is not acceptable

Silly me I guess common sense is not so common any more.

Next addition to the allied “What not to do book” will have that subheading I guess sense people have the need to have that spelled out
All I'm saying is: if the major occupying power feels free to abuse the civillians, of damn freaking course other fucktards in the allied armed forces will catch on that idea.

Did you not know human beings are inherently st00pid? [/sarcasm. I guess.]

I watched the beating again. I still enjoyed it. Not as much as the narrator, but I don't think anyone could without orgasming. :p

I don't think that was an American accent, it sounds slightly Welsh in places.

The teenagers were throwing stones etc at the base, and, yes, while our boys should have grabbed 'em and brought 'em into the base, they should not have attacked them in that way. Then again, the whole commentary and video camera 'just being there' thing seems a bit suspicious.

Should have thrown the kids in the cells for a night, given them a good talk in the morning and let 'em go.

But think about this - how often do they just randomly film things like this? I'm pretty sure the filming is rare, but the occurance is not.

All I'm saying is: if the major occupying power feels free to abuse the civillians, of damn freaking course other fucktards in the allied armed forces will catch on that idea.

Did you not know human beings are inherently st00pid? [/sarcasm. I guess.]
Yeah I guess I just detest the whole thing ... I don't know it just seems like such an obvious thing

These kids get beat and all you think this is "dance" worthy just because it happened to not be the US this time

Wow

Good post, my faith is restored Minni.

There is good and bad out there, all sides. :fluffle:
Sooner we get to get along together, the sooner we get pie!

I don't think that was an American accent, it sounds slightly Welsh in places.

The teenagers were throwing stones etc at the base, and, yes, while our boys should have grabbed 'em and brought 'em into the base, they should not have attacked them in that way. Then again, the whole commentary and video camera 'just being there' thing seems a bit suspicious.

Should have thrown the kids in the cells for a night, given them a good talk in the morning and let 'em go.

NOT AN AMERICAN ACCENT?! HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN TO AMERICA??? Not only does that comment alone sound crazy but then you say it sounds Welsh! That accent is about as British as Sushi!

NOT AN AMERICAN ACCENT?! HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN TO AMERICA??? Not only does that comment alone sound crazy but then you say it sounds Welsh! That accent is about as British as Sushi!

I was born in AMerica. I live 33 years in America. It's not an American accent.

NOT AN AMERICAN ACCENT?! HAVE YOU EVEN BEEN TO AMERICA??? Not only does that comment alone sound crazy but then you say it sounds Welsh! That accent is about as British as Sushi!

It is not an American Accent. You can tell when the filmer says "Naughty Little Boys". Americans would not pronounce it that way.

(Waiting for the "It's just a few bad apples" explanation by the gov't...)

Tell me about it. It's like when they say Islamic terrorism is just down to a few extremists. Who do those jokers think they're fooling, eh?

And a 27 year-old man is not a "teen" by any stretch of the imagination. Some of those guys had guns, and they were harassing soldiers. They got what was coming to 'em, frankly. Although that creepy guy who sounded like he was getting off to the scene should probably be taken into protective custody.

From what I've heard those innocent teenagers were just a bunch of rioting scumbags. They were probably all smug thinking that the soldiers would just do nothing. They got what was coming to them.

From what I've heard those innocent teenagers were just a bunch of rioting scumbags. They were probably all smug thinking that the soldiers would just do nothing. They got what was coming to them.
Who cares about innocent
How are we any better then them if we refuse to hold our selfs to higher standards?

Who cares about innocent
How are we any better then them if we refuse to hold our selfs to higher standards?
You've got to realise that we're living in the real world, not some magical little fantasy land where everything will be OK when you act with a bit of kindness. It's a war zone over there. I'm sure most people here would want to teach a little lesson to some shits who are rioting and targeting them. If I were in their position I'd probably have done (Or at least wanted to do) the same thing and I'm sure most people would have.

You've got to realise that we're living in the real world, not some magical little fantasy land where everything will be OK when you act with a bit of kindness. It's a war zone over there. I'm sure most people here would want to teach a little lesson to some shits who are rioting and targeting them. If I were in their position I'd probably have done (Or at least wanted to do) the same thing and I'm sure most people would have.
Thank god a large majority of our service men and women over there are in more control of their emotions then you appear to be

Thank god a large majority of our service men and women over there are in more control of their emotions then you appear to be
Well I'm planning to attend Welbeck Defence Sixth Form and later go onto Sandhurst to train as an officer in the British Army. I wouldn't intend to sign up for that if I wasn't very much in control of my emotions. If I were in their position I would be capable of assessing the situation to see the probability of wether I would get caught. I wouldn't have done it because it's out in the open where anybody could have seen, and beating like that would leave physical marks. The soldiers are idiots because something like that could (and in this case, did) easily leak out.

Besides that, orders are orders. And my orders would be not to beat detainees.

Well I'm planning to attend Welbeck Defence Sixth Form and later go onto Sandhurst to train as an officer in the British Army. I wouldn't intend to sign up for that if I wasn't very much in control of my emotions. If I were in their position I would be capable of assessing the situation to see the probability of wether I would get caught. I wouldn't have done it because it's out in the open where anybody could have seen, and beating like that would leave physical marks. The soldiers are idiots because something like that could (and in this case, did) easily leak out.

Besides that, orders are orders. And my orders would be not to beat detainees.
Its kind of sad the only thing holding you back from beating detainees is orders and the probability of getting caught.

But I guess as long as you can follow orders ... maybe it is the best career path for you.

Its kind of sad the only thing holding you back from beating detainees is orders and the probability of getting caught.

But I guess as long as you can follow orders ... maybe it is the best career path for you.
The only detainees I would want to beat are the ones that are acting like complete arseholes. If one was cooperative I wouldn't want to. Also, if I did end up beating the detainees, there could be a danger of my subordinates deciding it was a good idea. If that became widespread discipline would completely break down and it could bring us all into disrepute. But make no mistake, my conscience would not be troubled by it. And the same would be true for amny people in that position.

But think about this - how often do they just randomly film things like this? I'm pretty sure the filming is rare, but the occurance is not.

Because afterall everyone in the Armed Forces beats up teenagers on a regular basis.....

The intelligence level of this forum is quickly going downhill.

Because afterall everyone in the Armed Forces beats up teenagers on a regular basis.....

The intelligence level of this forum is quickly going downhill.
Wow I did not get that from the quoted statement at all

Talk about putting words in someones mouth

What ARE the chances that someone managed to video tape this? Now reflect that in the number of probable un-taped events.

the PM should just order in the Gurkhas they helped to quiet down Malaya, their presence should do the same in Iraq then where would be ono cases of beatings the Iraqis would probably be scared stiff of the the Wee Gurkhas.

So the fuck what?! They shouldn't have been around in the first place. Well done British soldiers :mp5: :headbang: Loved that video so much... going to send it to all my friends :D

So the fuck what?! They shouldn't have been around in the first place. Well done British soldiers :mp5: :headbang: Loved that video so much... going to send it to all my friends :D
Wow

Just

Wow

Though I am sure that is what you were going for ... troll much?

Post if this don't bother you in the slightest way. Or if it pleases you.

Yeah... I went for shock... I didn't enjoy it that much. It makes me scared to be honest. Earlier I watched the video where Iraqis were beating burnt US/British soldiers bodies with sticks, breaking their limbs and hanging them upside down from a bridge so seeing a few Iraqi kids getting what they had coming to them is wonderful viewing... of sorts.

I agree with -Somewhere-. It is a warzone, you mess with soldiers, expect to be taught a lesson, and a hard one at that. I personally would respect a man with a weapon in his hands, not throw stones at him. I'm also pretty sure those 'teenagers' will think twice before causing trouble again.

That is a horrible excuse. Just because "America dragged you into the war," as you put it, is no excuse for the British soldiers to behave this way.
It is not an excuse for the soldiers but if Blair wasn't bush's poodle we would not be in this position now. I don't think that the behaviour was acceptable and that these soldiers should be punished fittingly as behaviour like this damages the reputation of the best army in the world.:sniper:

Israel's?

Though I like to think of the British army as the best in the world too :D

I think this isn't the worst you have made at war (US & England) not in this war, not in any of the other wars you made to conquer or whatever the world, starting with africa, america, etc. you think you own this world and that's why you crap in it.
you (english) and your fkng m. thatcher attacked the war ship "general belgrano" outside the conflict area killing hundreds of people that wasn't participating in the falklands war. but you don't consider that terrorism, and complain about terrorism. the paraguayan war you made against paraguay just to keep your latin-america market killing the 80 percent of men and children isn't terrorism neither.
just want you to know i enjoy everytime i see a terrorist act in your territory, and many people of the world does, it makes me believe that there's some justice left.
i hope you all die and it would be nice that any gringo that steps in foreign territory would be scared
you won't ever live in peace

honestly

ZEQUI
(from argentina)

Dude, let me get this straight you are using the Falklands war as a position of moral superiority to criticise imperialistic unprovoked attacks?
Cuckoo! Cuckoo!http://img445.imageshack.us/img445/7113/fing285ep.gif

Dude, let me get this straight you are using the Falklands war as a position of moral superiority to criticise imperialistic unprovoked attacks?
Cuckoo! Cuckoo!
He's just jealous of our power and bitter over the way we single handedly kicked them out of an island that's in their own back yard. Pathetic really.

It's a war! None of this exclusion zone crap, you attack British territory and every and any Argentine military force becomes completely fair game. You can't whine about an unfair sinking when your country invaded British soil! Insanity...

just want you to know i enjoy everytime i see a terrorist act in your territory, and many people of the world does, it makes me believe that there's some justice left.
i hope you all die and it would be nice that any gringo that steps in foreign territory would be scared
you won't ever live in peace


Pfft. Some people are just really sore losers.

I agree with -Somewhere-. It is a warzone, you mess with soldiers, expect to be taught a lesson, and a hard one at that. I personally would respect a man with a weapon in his hands, not throw stones at him. I'm also pretty sure those 'teenagers' will think twice before causing trouble again.

Alright, I've heard that excuse enough times now. So these teens who were THROWING ROCKS, right? Some reports even said some homemade grenades. Alright. So we've got rocks vs. guns here... and thats beat worthy? I hardly think that that crowd that was running in fear was any kind of threat.

SO you're assuming now that they've been beaten by the Western forces that they're going to become submissive little bitches that do whatever the invading force commands? Hahaha. Hardly. You wonder why people hate the U.S. and Britain. You don't beat people and expect them to co-operate. Its a Warzone because the invaders said it was. They're throwing stones because they have no other way to defend their home. You think these are "insurgents"? These are just kids! How can you not see this?

Wow I did not get that from the quoted statement at all

Talk about putting words in someones mouth

What ARE the chances that someone managed to video tape this? Now reflect that in the number of probable un-taped events.

Thank you!!

Sorry about the duplicate thread, btw.

Alright, I've heard that excuse enough times now. So these teens who were THROWING ROCKS, right? Some reports even said some homemade grenades. Alright. So we've got rocks vs. guns here... and thats beat worthy? I hardly think that that crowd that was running in fear was any kind of threat.



There were certainly home made grenades mentioned in a couple of articles I read and it was pretty much accepted as fact that they were grenades on the last post.

Whilst I hope these men get disciplined, especially the narrator, and hope that it is not a common occurance, I do understand why the soilders did it. I mean, who wouldn't be angry if some little scrotes were throwing grenades at them and their friends? They shouldn't have acted so unprofessionally and I think it shows a lack of the discipline the British army is supposed to be famous for - but it's not really comparable to things like Abu Ghraib (sp?)

snip


Thank you!!

Sorry about the duplicate thread, btw.
NP it actualy was a bit old ... I it was a few pages deep even on my subscribed threads list

Unfortunatly this is something that happens in war. It happened in Ireland, for instance. Drag a few locals of the streets and give them a kicking, then just hand them over to the RUCs...