NationStates Jolt Archive

The Italians got the Austrian team up and kept them up to test them for doping. There was no reason for this, the Austrians weren't doping and there was no reason to suspect that they were. As a result the Austrian team had little to no sleep the night before a competition and did poorly. I think this was at best poor planning and at worst, downright sabotage.

My Italianess keeps me from making a statement. :p

The real iony is that after the drug testing was over, they could've really used some drugs. :p

I knew that call to Uncle Joey would pay off.

The Italians got the Austrian team up and kept them up to test them for doping. There was no reason for this, the Austrians weren't doping and there was no reason to suspect that they were. As a result the Austrian team had little to no sleep the night before a competition and did poorly. I think this was at best poor planning and at worst, downright sabotage.

Maybe the Austrian's should not have made it easy for them to find an excuse by bringing their doping specialist along with them? Guilty or not, that is going to fly in the face of the spirit of his ban and leave the door wide open for suspicion, especially since doping is a crime in Italy.

An interesting aside: If he were there doing nothing, then why did he do this..
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OLY_XXC_AUSTRIA_MAYER_TR4?SITE=ORLAG&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Why did the Italians insist the testing occur before the event? (And why could the Austrians have not protested and insist the testing be conducted immediately after their event?)

I call it sabatoage. Doping can be as easily discerned after the event as before. The Italians should be penalized, and the rules reviewed to ensure this kind of abuse not happen again. :mad:

Why did the Italians insist the testing occur before the event? (And why could the Austrians have not protested and insist the testing be conducted immediately after their event?)

I call it sabatoage. Doping can be as easily discerned after the event as before. The Italians should be penalized, and the rules reviewed to ensure this kind of abuse not happen again. :mad:

I don't know of any police departments that schedule raids at the convience of the suspect. (California Excluded) That to me seems the surest way to find no evidence, but you already knew that, didn't ya?:eek:

I don't know of any police departments that schedule raids at the convience of the suspect. (California Excluded) That to me seems the surest way to find no evidence, but you already knew that, didn't ya?:eek:
I think the point though is that, in the case of doping, if you test them immediately after the race, the only way the austrians could conceal the evidence is by by giving their team a concrete overcoat and dumping them in a river. :)

They should not wait for the race to be over because any cheating effects the results of the other participants.

They should not wait for the race to be over because any cheating effects the results of the other participants.
To be honest, a cheating team is more likely to have a positive effect on the other competitiors' performance, because they'll strain themselves to match their example.

I think the point though is that, in the case of doping, if you test them immediately after the race, the only way the austrians could conceal the evidence is by by giving their team a concrete overcoat and dumping them in a river. :)

Well no that is not the case. Physical evidence required by the Police in a criminal complaint would most certainly have been disposed of before after event testing by the IOC could occur. Since doping has a limited window it only made sense for police to conduct their raid during the time frame when it was likely the procedure was going to be conducted.
They had more than enough "cause" to believe that there was illegal activity, and their former coach and doping specialist's attempts to flee police after the event only confirm this.
As far as the charge they were doing it because they wanted to keep them up all night so they were tired is hogwash. The raid began at 9PM and was over by midnight. Pleanty of time for sleep even though in my own experiences with competitions at that level. (many years ago) Sleep the night before is a pipe dream for even the most laid back athlete.

To be honest, a cheating team is more likely to have a positive effect on the other competitiors' performance, because they'll strain themselves to match their example.

No it isn't. That is one possibility but it certainly is not more likely. It would depend on the mental state and constitution of the other competitor's to determine how they would react to a sudden change in their vision of how the competition should go. By the time a world class athete actually performs in their respective competition, they have actually rehearsed the entire competition in their minds many hundreds of times. Very often an inexplicable change in that vision has a hugely demoralizing effect.

Bah, I don't know much about actually performing in these competitions. I was just basing that comment on watching the 2 man bob sled, I think, where you had the track record broken by one team after another. Granted there might be situational effects going on, ditto the fact that that track won't have been used frequently at that level, but I presumed that a least part of it must be the other teams being spurred on by the successes opf their fellow competitors.

And about the doping issue, discounting injecting heavily oxygenated blood, wouldn't most dope types be readable in blood and urine samples directly after a race?

Bah, I don't know much about actually performing in these competitions. I was just basing that comment on watching the 2 man bob sled, I think, where you had the track record broken by one team after another. Granted there might be situational effects going on, ditto the fact that that track won't have been used frequently at that level, but I presumed that a least part of it must be the other teams being spurred on by the successes opf their fellow competitors.

And about the doping issue, discounting injecting heavily oxygenated blood, wouldn't most dope types be readable in blood and urine samples directly after a race?

Without a doubt there is a huge positive effect to being pushed by competition, however, when it comes to a head to head competition, especially of an endurance nature the negative effect on morale is more prevelant.
Blood doping is now as easily detected after a race as drugs are. Where the confusion comes from in this whole mess is that there were two different agencies involved with two different goals. The IOC was more interested in testing their blood and the Police were more interested in finding the equipement they used to do it with, as it is a criminal offense in Italy. The Austrians themselves are the only one's to blame because it was them that brought along their banned former coach. It's too bad because I would have liked them over the Italians anyway.

dp

The Austrians themselves are the only one's to blame because it was them that brought along their banned former coach.It is a crime to bring that man along?
Is it against Italian Law?
Is it agains IOC rules?

Which is it?

They should not wait for the race to be over because any cheating effects the results of the other participants.Then they should test every single team.. Not just the Main competitors of the Local Team.

I think the point though is that, in the case of doping, if you test them immediately after the race, the only way the austrians could conceal the evidence is by by giving their team a concrete overcoat and dumping them in a river. :)
Thank you for being sensible, unlike some unthinking, bile breathing gimboids. :headbang:

BileBreath, think before posting, eh? :mad:

<snip>Blood doping is now as easily detected after a race as drugs are.
So which is it? They deserved to be harassed until midnightor they could have been tested afterward?

Either way, had they been guilty it would have been detectable and prosecutable.

To send in the cops before their event was pure sabatoge.

They should not wait for the race to be over because any cheating effects the results of the other participants.
Bull. If the cheating team is disqualified, the point spread is adjusted to match.

If anything, like others have said, increased performance, for whatever reason, increases overall scores.

My Italianess keeps me from making a statement. :p
mine doesnt, its just where my family came from. Ive been saying for years that those Itals are nothing but trouble.

It is a crime to bring that man along?
Is it against Italian Law?
Is it agains IOC rules?

Which is it?

Probable cause does not require proof of a criminal offense. Only a reasonable suspicion and a warrent.
If the man appeared with the team in the teams official dress, then I would say yes, it may well have been a direct violation of IOC rules. Even if it were not, it is still a flagrant disregard of the spirit of the intent, and would lead any reasonable person to believe the situation was very suspicious. Of course I recognize that you would probably be unable to come to this conclusion.

So which is it? They deserved to be harassed until midnightor they could have been tested afterward?

Either way, had they been guilty it would have been detectable and prosecutable.

To send in the cops before their event was pure sabatoge.

Didn't read the part about physical evidence did you. We'll know when the collected items are analyzed and introduced as evidence whether or not it was justifed.

If the man appeared with the team in the teams official dress, then I would say yes, it may well have been a direct violation of IOC rules.I Dont Think so. I say the austriam team ahs not violated any Italian Laws or IOC rules by bringing him along.. and No it is not agains Italian Rules to put on an autrian team Colors..

Thank you for being sensible, unlike some unthinking, bile breathing gimboids. :headbang:

BileBreath, think before posting, eh? :mad:

13?

If the man appeared with the team in the teams official dress, then I would say yes, it may well have been a direct violation of IOC rules.I Don't Think so. I say the Austrian team has not violated any IOC rules by bringing him along or by the way he was dressed..

and No it is not against Italian Law to put on Austrian team Colors..

I Dont Think so. I say the austriam team ahs not violated any Italian Laws or IOC rules by bringing him along.. and No it is not agains Italian Rules to put on an autrian team Colors..

You may be correct I really don't know. It doesn't change the fact that it was the IOC that notified the Police of the situation and not the other way around. Granted, both the IOC and Italian authorities have horrible records when it comes to their openess to bribery and political pressure, but no matter how you look at it, the Austrains opened themselves up to suspicion and gave both agencies an excuse for their actions.

You may be correct I really don't know. It doesn't change the fact that it was the IOC that notified the Police of the situation and not the other way around. Granted, both the IOC and Italian authorities have horrible records when it comes to their openess to bribery and political pressure, but no matter how you look at it, the Austrains opened themselves up to suspicion and gave both agencies an excuse for their actions.
Bitch deserved to get raped the way she was dressed... :headbang:

Bitch deserved to get raped the way she was dressed... :headbang:

Sorry. 12?

Sorry. 12?

How about, "Sensible" - and likely older than you.

Your post stating the Austrians "deserved it" is morally equivilent to saying a woman "deservs" being raped because she dressed provacatively.

There is no excuse for treating the Austrian team the way they did. Since proof of doping could have as easily been ascertained immediately after the event as several (sleepless) hours before, the accuser(s) and the investigators are, or should be, guilty of tampering with/sabotaging the contest. Unless each team was treated identically, i.e. kept up extra hours rather than being allowed to sleep, then the Austrian team was placed at a disadvantage. Should the "physical evidence" prove that no doping occured, then the IOC, the Italians, and anyone else involved should be censured for, at a minimum, errors in judgement and be investigated for malfesance.

When there is no rational excuse for the timing of the event, the rational for event itself must be called into question.

Somthing is rotten in Torino, and it's not the Danes.

Bull. If the cheating team is disqualified, the point spread is adjusted to match.

If anything, like others have said, increased performance, for whatever reason, increases overall scores.

What if by doing what you precieved as poorly (in comparison to the cheating team) you lost your mental edge? How would you adjust the point spread for that?

There were many reasons the Italian teams wanted the Austrians tested.

Also, as mentioned previously Austria had brought along an old coach who was a known doper and if nobody was guilty, then why did 2 Austrian team members flee Italy.

The Italians very well could have sabotaged the Austrians, but the Austrians had many reasons not to be trusted. However, the Italians could have very well been better then the Austrians just like they were before.

.. why did 2 Austrian team members flee Italy. If I was in their place I would leave too. As a matter of principle.

Italy claim cross-country relay gold

Italy won their first cross-country skiing gold medal of the Turin Winter Olympics overnight when their men triumphed in the 4x10 kilometre relay.

Pietro Piller Cottrer set up their victory with a fine third leg in driving snow in the Italian Alps before Cristian Zorzi guided them home in front of thousands of jubilant home fans waving red, white and green tricolours.

Germany took the silver, just 0.3 seconds ahead of Sweden, who made the podium for the first time in this event since 1988.

Defending Olympic and world champions Norway trailed in fifth to compound their dismal performances in cross-country at these Olympics.

They are still awaiting their first gold medal in either the men's or women's events.

Austria, whose team members were subjected to doping tests late on Saturday following a raid on their house, were lapped and were the only team of the 16 competing not to finish the race.
-Reuters

<It's working!> ;)

So you want to sue the Italians for the bad game of the Austrians, taking the drug testing as an excuse? How lame :rolleyes:

It should be noted, the Italians are said to have found syringes, anti-depressants, asthma medication and blood transfusion equipment. I don't know how relevant anti-depressants and asthma medication are to doping, though I know, from personal experience, that a lot of asthma medications contain stimulants and steroids. But what about syringes and blood transfusion equipment?

It should be noted, the Italians are said to have found syringes, anti-depressants, asthma medication and blood transfusion equipment. I don't know how relevant anti-depressants and asthma medication are to doping, though I know, from personal experience, that a lot of asthma medications contain stimulants and steroids. But what about syringes and blood transfusion equipment?The Italians also caught the coach after he got into an accident while fleeing them...

EDIT:
The blood transfusions and syringes are about blood doping. Blood doping (there are several methods) increases the amount of red blood cells in your blood stream, increasing the amount of oxygen your blood can carry. It's very helpful in events that test an athlete's stamina.

All that aside, the Germans kicked ass in the 2-man bobsled.