NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just watching part of a video on Bosnia, and I thought that why doesn't the U.S contribute its money and troops to something more useful than the purpose for invading Iraq (finding Weapons of Mass Destruction) and in the end, not finding them? I mean, a holocaust is going on Bosnia, but the world is still concerning itself with Iran, and Palestine, while people are still dying.

The US should focus more on Bosnia, and the genocide in Rwanda and other African Countries (Sudan, to name one), rather than issues that are not as important as people currently in danger/people dying.

What do you think?

This may be a humongous failure on my part to keep up with the news, but: There is a genocide going on in Bosnia?

The US has no strategic interest in the Sudan or Rwanda so our government doesn't give a damn about civil wars and massacres in those places. Iraq now is in the Middle East where the US goverment feels it has a right to extend its hegemonic interests, after all it has dare I say it... oil.

This may be a humongous failure on my part to keep up with the news, but: There is a genocide going on in Bosnia?
I haven't heard anything about it either...do you have a source The Genius Masterminds? I'm curious about it now.

I haven't heard anything about it either...do you have a source The Genius Masterminds? I'm curious about it now.
There have been occasional clashes between Muslim Albanians and Orthodox Serbs in Kosovo, but that's what thousands and thousands of peacekeepers are there for...

http://www.checkpoint-online.ch/CheckPoint/Images/N-KFOR-Kosovo-1.jpg

There have been occasional clashes between Muslim Albanians and Orthodox Serbs in Kosovo, but that's what thousands and thousands of peacekeepers are there for...

http://www.checkpoint-online.ch/CheckPoint/Images/N-KFOR-Kosovo-1.jpg
aaahh. okay. I wasn't sure if I had missed some new development in the region

How about this: spending more money on ARV's to prolong the lives of the several million Africans living with HIV/AIDS. Doing that would require the equivelent funds of, approximately, TWO DAYS* world military spending.


*6 billion dollars. Not an exact figure, but a well-guided estimate.

I think the Americans should just mind their own damn business. Enough with your world policing crap Uncle Sam.....

How about this: spending more money on ARV's to prolong the lives of the several million Africans living with HIV/AIDS. Doing that would require the equivelent funds of, approximately, TWO DAYS* world military spending.


*6 billion dollars. Not an exact figure, but a well-guided estimate.
I'd say both are noble causes, and not mutually exclusive.

I'd say both are noble causes, and not mutually exclusive.

Yeah, but here's the plan: buy ARV's and distribute them (est. time frame: 2 weeks). Then, beef up the UN so it can deal with the Bosnia crisis in the most humane, effective way possible (est. time frame: between 1 year and eternity).

Yeah, but here's the plan: buy ARV's and distribute them (est. time frame: 2 weeks). Then, beef up the UN so it can deal with the Bosnia crisis in the most humane, effective way possible (est. time frame: between 1 year and eternity).
some problems...ARVs must be taken permanently, or risk creating strains that are resistant (HIV is a rapidly mutating virus). Once we have distributed them, who will make sure people keep up their doses, and how do we make sure they can get refills when they need? Missing a single day can make a huge difference.

Also, what is the point in curing AIDS if they are going to be chopped down by genocidal forces?

some problems...ARVs must be taken permanently, or risk creating strains that are resistant (HIV is a rapidly mutating virus). Once we have distributed them, who will make sure people keep up their doses, and how do we make sure they can get refills when they need? Missing a single day can make a huge difference.

Also, what is the point in curing AIDS if they are going to be chopped down by genocidal forces?

It's not a cure, to be specific. And yes, it will take work to get people to continue taking them, but give Stephen Lewis the money, and he'll get it done. In addition, many areas suffering from the AIDS pandemic are actually politically stable areas not affected by the genoicide in Bosnia (eg: Cameroon).

The US has no strategic interest in the Sudan or Rwanda so our government doesn't give a damn about civil wars and massacres in those places. Iraq now is in the Middle East where the US goverment feels it has a right to extend its hegemonic interests, after all it has dare I say it... oil.

Oil? Have your gas prices gone down? It isn’t about oil, it’s about WMDs that Saddam himself thought he had. Mistakes happen, but at least this was an error on the side of caution, and not just a move for oil. You are correct about that area of the world having "Strategic Interest" though. Most of the assholes are there and we are Strategically Interested in killing them before they kill us. :)

As for Bosnia, I don’t think that anyone there has ever threatened to kill the "infidel", which by definition is.....well.....me :) So I don’t think we will be going there any time soon. Besides, if the US did go to Bosnia the whole world would cry that we were there to take the sand for ourselves. The media would show every bad thing, every incident, and nothing good. The world would say that the US has no business being there, and we would be politically forced to withdraw.

The US has no strategic interest in the Sudan or Rwanda so our government doesn't give a damn about civil wars and massacres in those places. Iraq now is in the Middle East where the US goverment feels it has a right to extend its hegemonic interests, after all it has dare I say it... oil.

Oil? Have your gas prices gone down? It isn’t about oil, it’s about WMDs that Saddam himself thought he had. Mistakes happen, but at least this was an error on the side of caution, and not just a move for oil. You are correct about that area of the world having "Strategic Interest" though. Most of the assholes are there and we are Strategically Interested in killing them before they kill us. :)

As for Bosnia, I don’t think that anyone there has ever threatened to kill the "infidel", which by definition is.....well.....me :) So I don’t think we will be going there any time soon. Besides, if the US did go to Bosnia the whole world would cry that we were there to take the sand for ourselves. The media would show every bad thing, every incident, and nothing good. The world would say that the US has no business being there, and we would be politically forced to withdraw.

The US has no strategic interest in the Sudan or Rwanda so our government doesn't give a damn about civil wars and massacres in those places. Iraq now is in the Middle East where the US goverment feels it has a right to extend its hegemonic interests, after all it has dare I say it... oil.

Oil? Have your gas prices gone down? It isn’t about oil, it’s about WMDs that Saddam himself thought he had. Mistakes happen, but at least this was an error on the side of caution, and not just a move for oil. You are correct about that area of the world having "Strategic Interest" though. Most of the assholes are there and we are Strategically Interested in killing them before they kill us. :)

As for Bosnia, I don’t think that anyone there has ever threatened to kill the "infidel", which by definition is.....well.....me :) So I don’t think we will be going there any time soon. Besides, if the US did go to Bosnia the whole world would cry that we were there to take the sand for ourselves. The media would show every bad thing, every incident, and nothing good. The world would say that the US has no business being there, and we would be politically forced to withdraw.

The US has no strategic interest in the Sudan or Rwanda so our government doesn't give a damn about civil wars and massacres in those places. Iraq now is in the Middle East where the US goverment feels it has a right to extend its hegemonic interests, after all it has dare I say it... oil.

Oil? Have your gas prices gone down? It isn’t about oil, it’s about WMDs that Saddam himself thought he had. Mistakes happen, but at least this was an error on the side of caution, and not just a move for oil. You are correct about that area of the world having "Strategic Interest" though. Most of the assholes are there and we are Strategically Interested in killing them before they kill us. :)

As for Bosnia, I don’t think that anyone there has ever threatened to kill the "infidel", which by definition is.....well.....me :) So I don’t think we will be going there any time soon. Besides, if the US did go to Bosnia the whole world would cry that we were there to take the sand for ourselves. The media would show every bad thing, every incident, and nothing good. The world would say that the US has no business being there, and we would be politically forced to withdraw.

A quad post? You could win a medal for that!

And besides...no "infidel" namecalling in Bosnia? Where do you think people like Zarqawi got their combat experience from?

A quad post? You could win a medal for that!

Yeah, having network issues at work. :(

And besides...no "infidel" namecalling in Bosnia? Where do you think people like Zarqawi got their combat experience from?


Bosnia doesn’t posses the means to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and I haven’t seen or heard of them saying to kill any/every American in any way they can. I believe Saddam threatened the US on many occasions.

Now don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with some Muslims I've met. As a matter of fact, the Muslim religion is basically peaceful in nature. Islam has been corrupted worldwide to be used as a tool for insane power mongers. It’s a shame that things have turned out this way, as it gives Islam a bad name that it doesn’t deserve.

Yeah, having network issues at work. :(
No, it's the jolt server's fault.

Just remember to be patient if everything suddenly goes slow. If you keep refreshing or clicking again, you re-post. :)

Bosnia doesn’t posses the means to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and I haven’t seen or heard of them saying to kill any/every American in any way they can. I believe Saddam threatened the US on many occasions.
Well, WMD are silly anyways. If that had ever been a reason, North Korea wouldn't be sitting pretty on a stack of nukes now, happily developing ICBMs.

No, the point is that the Serbian attack on the Muslims in Kosovo, and earlier in Bosnia attracted just as many Mudjahadeen as the war in Afghanistan did back in the days. And in some areas, money and recruits are still being found there and for that cause.

All these things are connected these days.

Well, WMD are silly anyways. If that had ever been a reason, North Korea wouldn't be sitting pretty on a stack of nukes now, happily developing ICBMs.

No, the point is that the Serbian attack on the Muslims in Kosovo, and earlier in Bosnia attracted just as many Mudjahadeen as the war in Afghanistan did back in the days. And in some areas, money and recruits are still being found there and for that cause.

All these things are connected these days.


Korea (in my opinion) isn’t really a threat. If Korea used a Nuke on anyone China would come down so hard on them that it wouldn’t be funny. Why you ask? China isn’t very fond of the US, and I’m almost positive they don’t want us in their neck of the woods. Think of it as a street in your neighborhood. China and the US are the badasses on the block. Korea is Chinas smack talking little brother. If the little brother says anything to the US, China is gonna smack the hell out of them, just because they don’t want the other badass on their front lawn. It’s a simplified explanation I know, but it’s basically my point.

I could be mistaken about Bosnia, but I thought that was more of a power struggle between warlords than a religious war. Granted, the Warlords used/are using Muslim extremists as foot soldiers, but not because it’s a conflict of religion. The Muslim religion has been twisted so terribly in those parts of the world that it breads (in theory) the perfect foot soldier. Their mission in life is to kill until they are killed. They rarely need to be paid or supplied and will do anything you say as long as you tack "Allahu Ackbar!" on the end of it. This isn’t a recent development by any stretch, but it’s more prevalent with today’s technology.

Korea (in my opinion) isn’t really a threat...
You may be correct, but with qualifications. As we have seen, the DPRK is determined to make its own way, even against China, who were trying to defuse the situation with the nuclear talks, but failed.
And ultimately, both Iran and Iraq would also have been punished for using WMD, so the risk was no greater from either of them. Not to mention that the DPRK will shortly have the delivery system to drop a nuke into the States, and neither Iran nor Iraq even got close.

I could be mistaken about Bosnia, but I thought that was more of a power struggle between warlords than a religious war.
For some, it was.
But for most, it was largely an ethnic war, and one aspect of that was the religion. The Serbs (as the people who see themselves as the martyrs for Christian Europe when the Turks crushed them) have always seen it as their mission to protect themselves, and other Christians, from the foreign Muslim faith.

So it was not an accident that things like Srebrenica happened. And when a genocide against Muslims happens, it shouldn't be a surprise that foreign fighters and money flood in, as is the case now both in Chechnya and Iraq. People always need a reason to make a war into a religious affair, only seldomly is the religious aspect entirely made-up.

Not to mention that the DPRK will shortly have the delivery system to drop a nuke into the States, and neither Iran nor Iraq even got close.

I’m not sure about this, but I think that one of the US's main concerns about Iraq having NBC weaponry was that Saddam had used them on his own people on several occasions. I’m sure if you are willing to gas your own people than you wouldn’t loose any sleep over nuking Israel. Korea on the other hand has never used (as far as I know) NBS weaponry on anyone. Also, a missile delivery system against the US is useless unless it’s massive. 1 or 2 ICBMs would be shot out of the sky before they broke atmo'. A terrorist brining a small nuke core into the country in a duffle bag is a much more realistic threat.


For some, it was, but for most, it was largely an ethnic war, and one aspect of that was the religion.

I agree with this actually. Most wars are fought by the religious population, but are waged for different reasons. This is what I meant by Bosnia being about power and not religion. The people in charge could care less about religion, but they say they do to get followers. A soldier that believes he is fighting for his god will go to the ends of the earth if told to, but eventually a political soldier will beg the question "WTF am I doing here". This is why the US rotates military units, so they don’t have the time to ask the question. "God Warriors" will go till they die.

I really hope that one day Islam is brought back to its roots. I was in the USMC, fought in OIF-I and occupied a city about 30 mins south of Baghdad. I was lucky enough to experience the good parts of Islam while I was there. For instance, I found out that even if you are an "infidel" Muslims are obligated to invite you in, feed you, and heal you if you ask. The Iraqi people are generally kind people and treated us well. They seemed to like us, and we liked most of them. We realized that it was the extremists from outside of Iraq that we were fighting, not the Iraqi people. I just wish that ALL religious hatred would end. It’s a burden to the human race and is keeping us from reaching our full potential.

Korea on the other hand has never used (as far as I know) NBS weaponry on anyone.

There was a (unsubstantiated) article sometime ago about bioweapons labs in Korea which used their own citizens as test subjects. Can't say whether it's true or not.


A terrorist brining a small nuke core into the country in a duffle bag is a much more realistic threat.

Replace terrorist with Korean agent and there you go. Although a duffle bag sized nuke wouldn't really have any kind of shielding worth talking about when you try to sneak through customs. Unless you go through Mexico that is.

Either way, I don't see the DPRK doing anything stupid like that anytime soon. People don't get to lead nations because they like playing a big game of "everybody loses"

I mean, if anyone, Bush, Chirac, Sharon, Putin, Ahmadinejad, Kim Jung, etc, etc said "Tommorrow, I will press the red button and start WWIII", odds are someone would club him over the head and get rid of them if they were serious.

I think the Americans should just mind their own damn business. Enough with your world policing crap Uncle Sam.....
Excepting, of course, when the UN comes crying for canon fodder... :rolleyes:

If only...