NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm just curious if anyone knows just exactly how Bush and Cheney are making money from oil in regards to the war in Iraq.

I mean, considering the money Cheney gets from Haliburton is set, and doesn't rise or fall with the price of oil, and Bush doesn't have any investment in oil (I may be wrong here, feel free to correct me if you have proof) just how is it that everyone keeps saying Bush started this war for personal gain?

This is a serious question. I don't know one way or another. Who knows, you might just blow my mind!

So anyone have any proof of financial gain by Bush or Cheny above and beyond what they would get in peacetime?

I'm just curious if anyone knows just exactly how Bush and Cheney are making money from oil in regards to the war in Iraq.

I mean, considering the money Cheney gets from Haliburton is set, and doesn't rise or fall with the price of oil, and Bush doesn't have any investment in oil (I may be wrong here, feel free to correct me if you have proof) just how is it that everyone keeps saying Bush started this war for personal gain?

This is a serious question. I don't know one way or another. Who knows, you might just blow my mind!

So anyone have any proof of financial gain by Bush or Cheny above and beyond what they would get in peacetime?

Halibutron's profits have been rising

I'm just curious if anyone knows just exactly how Bush and Cheney are making money from oil in regards to the war in Iraq.

I mean, considering the money Cheney gets from Haliburton is set, and doesn't rise or fall with the price of oil, and Bush doesn't have any investment in oil (I may be wrong here, feel free to correct me if you have proof) just how is it that everyone keeps saying Bush started this war for personal gain?

This is a serious question. I don't know one way or another. Who knows, you might just blow my mind!

So anyone have any proof of financial gain by Bush or Cheny above and beyond what they would get in peacetime?

it would really creep me out if the president were making money on this.

i dont know what bush's arrangements are but when jimmy carter was president his assets were put into a blind trust. he had no way to know what he was invested in and how his decisions would affect his wealth (as it turned out he was broke when he left the oval office. bad choice of trustee i guess)

surely bush and cheney have something similar.

i think of it as being more of a mindset thing that an actual profit. they are oilmen so they think that whats good for oil is good for the US.

You might have to go ask Bush and Cheney themselves.
I'm sure they've setup some scheme to scam money off everyone when they leave office.

If Cheney still owns shares in Halliburton, he'd make money that way of course.

But to be honest, I think for Cheney it's more about ideology than it is about money (but that is not to say that he isn't good friends with a lot of people who'll make a lot out of this).

And Bush just tags along.

Lobbyists.

Lobbyists bring votes and money for favorable legislation.

However, I don't think this was about oil or personal profit. I think that this was about foreign policy idiocy.

The immediate corruption manifests itself in a number of ways, but not regarding the oil. That is not as much "corruption" as it is typical policy, the objectives the government pursues not for the individuals nominally in charge, but as part of its service to societal power centers.

I'm just curious if anyone knows just exactly how Bush and Cheney are making money from oil in regards to the war in Iraq....

They're not. The companies that gave Bush and Cheney their offices are though.

The point is not that they are personally making money for oil. Its that the underlying reason for the war is to defend Western access to it. It all started during the Carter administration. President Carter in one of his state of the union addresses spoke about what has become known as the "Carter Doctrine" (http://www.jimmycarterlibrary.org/documents/speeches/su80jec.phtml) that said that the oil reserves in the Middle east are of strategic importance to the United States and we will use our military to defend our access to it. Cheney gave a speech when he was president of Haliburton in 1998 that basically said that the world is running short of oil and that the world would basically need to find and bring online the equivalent of two more Saudi Arabias if we were to meet rising world demand by 2015. He went on to say that the prize was in the Middle East. He then had his famous energy task force meetings in which the proceedings were all secret in 2001 but where we know they poured over maps of the oil fields in the Middle east and, specifically, Iraq. The reality, though, is that there were probably a number of reasons we went to war in Iraq just as there are probably a number of reason why anyone makes a decision about any important matter. The fact is, however, that that area of teh world is important because of oil.

Ideology is far more dangerous than any amount of profit.

Halibutron's profits have been risingduh! so have macdonalds, commerzbanks, sunpowers, porsches, googles,... are they all in bed with bush/cheney?

It all started during the Carter administration.

It started long before Carter. It began after World War II, really, along with the general attempt of the US ruling class to bring the rest of the non-Stalinist world into its sphere of domination.

It started long before Carter. It began after World War II, really, along with the general attempt of the US ruling class to bring the rest of the non-Stalinist world into its sphere of domination.
No, it did not. No one knew how important the Middle east was to world oil reserves until the big discoveries were made there in the 1950s and 60s and, really, it wasn't until the 60s and 70s, when we realized that other discoveries of that size were not being made elsewhere in the world, that the uniqueness of the area as far as oil reserves became apparent. In any case, it was Carter that first articulated a policy regarding the Middle East with respect to oil and that was in response to two events - the Arab oil embargo of 1973 and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan whic was really an attempt to control the flow of oil out of the Persian Gulf.

Actually you are wrong. The fact that the Middle East would be an important oil province was known even before WW2. The war merely interrupted exploration efforts. The northern coast of Alaska was noted as a likely source of oil at the turn of the 20th century. Geologists were able to deduce much from surface land formations, and later, by aerial surveys.

No, it did not. No one knew how important the Middle east was to world oil reserves until the big discoveries were made there in the 1950s and 60s and, really, it wasn't until the 60s and 70s, when we realized that other discoveries of that size were not being made elsewhere in the world, that the uniqueness of the area as far as oil reserves became apparent. In any case, it was Carter that first articulated a policy regarding the Middle East with respect to oil and that was in response to two events - the Arab oil embargo of 1973 and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan whic was really an attempt to control the flow of oil out of the Persian Gulf.

So we overthrew Mossadegh because he nationalized tulip production?

The full extent of the oil reserves there may not have been known until later, but the fact that they were significant has been known for a long time.

Actually you are wrong. The fact that the Middle East would be an important oil province was known even before WW2. The war merely interrupted exploration efforts. The northern coast of Alaska was noted as a likely source of oil at the turn of the 20th century. Geologists were able to deduce much from surface land formations, and later, by aerial surveys.
True, but its uniquness was not known. All I'm saying is that by the time of Carter it had become clear how important it would be and that he was the first to articulate it into policy.

So we overthrew Mossadegh because he nationalized tulip production?

The full extent of the oil reserves there may not have been known until later, but the fact that they were significant has been known for a long time.
see above

Guys, I'm agreeing that the war is about oil. I'm just making a point that it was Carter who first articulated its importance ane embedded it in American foriegn policy.

True, but its uniquness was not known. All I'm saying is that by the time of Carter it had become clear how important it would be and that he was the first to articulate it into policy.
No, Roosevelt was the first. He met with Abdul Aziz ibn Saud on board the USS Quincy in Feb 1945 right after Yalta. That's when the uniqueness of Saudi Arabia's geopolitical status was agreed.

No, Roosevelt was the first. He met with Abdul Aziz ibn Saud on board the USS Quincy in Feb 1945 right after Yalta. That's when the uniqueness of Saudi Arabia's geopolitical status was agreed.
Good point. We did know then that Saudi Arabia was unique in the region, but we did not know the region itself was unique. At least not how unique. For all we knew there was a Saudi Arbia in Africa someplace. Maybe one in South America. Maybe one in the Gulf of Mexico. What we did not know until the 60s and 70s is that not only was there no other Saudi Arabia in the world, but that there was no other Iran, Iraq, UAE, or Kuwait in the world. By then it became clear that no other region of the world had these kinds of reserves. All through the 70s, as a result of the embargo, we were looking frantically for oil and all we really came up with was the North Sea and Alaska. At that point we realized that, not only would we not find another Saudi Arabia, but that we would not find another Persian Gulf. That's when Carter became president. By the time he gave his 1980 SOTU address we were clear that the world really had no alternative to Middle Eastern oil.

I'm just curious if anyone knows just exactly how Bush and Cheney are making money from oil in regards to the war in Iraq.

I mean, considering the money Cheney gets from Haliburton is set, and doesn't rise or fall with the price of oil, and Bush doesn't have any investment in oil (I may be wrong here, feel free to correct me if you have proof) just how is it that everyone keeps saying Bush started this war for personal gain?

This is a serious question. I don't know one way or another. Who knows, you might just blow my mind!

So anyone have any proof of financial gain by Bush or Cheny above and beyond what they would get in peacetime?

wow a thread about bush and cheney that doesnt start with saying bush is an idiot, i am really surprised

wow a thread about bush and cheney that doesnt start with saying bush is an idiot, i am really surprised
So am I. I don't know how anyone can come to any other conclusion. I mean, Jesus, can incompetence be any more blatant?

I'm just curious if anyone knows just exactly how Bush and Cheney are making money from oil in regards to the war in Iraq.

I mean, considering the money Cheney gets from Haliburton is set, and doesn't rise or fall with the price of oil, and Bush doesn't have any investment in oil (I may be wrong here, feel free to correct me if you have proof) just how is it that everyone keeps saying Bush started this war for personal gain?

This is a serious question. I don't know one way or another. Who knows, you might just blow my mind!

So anyone have any proof of financial gain by Bush or Cheny above and beyond what they would get in peacetime?
Interesting topic. Perhaps you won't like the source, but here is an interesting history about U.S. Intervention in the Middle East: Blood for Oil. (http://www.isreview.org/issues/15/blood_for_oil.shtml)

Despite the source, it is pretty factual.

As far as Cheney is concerned:

Cheney's Halliburton Stock Options Soar to $9.2 Million (http://lautenberg.senate.gov/~lautenberg/press/2003/01/2005915804.html)

Not too bad for a guy making peanuts as Vice President?

And as far as Bush is concerned, well his daddy George H. W. just happens to be part of the Carlyle Group. So Georgy Junior stands to inherit a lot of money through the back door?

Arms Buildup Enriches Firm Staffed by Big Guns (http://www.truthout.org/docs_01/01.11F.Arms.Carlyle.htm)

Defense: Ex-president and other elites are behind weapon-boosting Carlyle Group.

So Georgy makes the money via the back door by dropping bombs on Iraq and Cheney makes deferred money when his Halliburton stocks soar after them being named the supplier of choice in Iraq.

It certainly isn't chump change....it is more like chimp change.

see above

Guys, I'm agreeing that the war is about oil. I'm just making a point that it was Carter who first articulated its importance ane embedded it in American foriegn policy.
Actually, it goes back further than Carter, all the way back to Eisenhower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddeq

wow a thread about bush and cheney that doesnt start with saying bush is an idiot, i am really surprised
...but it's likely to peppered with it, and could even possibly end with it that way.

Interesting topic. Perhaps you won't like the source, but here is an interesting history about U.S. Intervention in the Middle East: Blood for Oil. (http://www.isreview.org/issues/15/blood_for_oil.shtml)

Despite the source, it is pretty factual.

As far as Cheney is concerned:

Cheney's Halliburton Stock Options Soar to $9.2 Million (http://lautenberg.senate.gov/~lautenberg/press/2003/01/2005915804.html)

Not too bad for a guy making peanuts as Vice President?

And as far as Bush is concerned, well his daddy George H. W. just happens to be part of the Carlyle Group. So Georgy Junior stands to inherit a lot of money through the back door?

Arms Buildup Enriches Firm Staffed by Big Guns (http://www.truthout.org/docs_01/01.11F.Arms.Carlyle.htm)

Defense: Ex-president and other elites are behind weapon-boosting Carlyle Group.

So Georgy makes the money via the back door by dropping bombs on Iraq and Cheney makes deferred money when his Halliburton stocks soar after them being named the supplier of choice in Iraq.

It certainly isn't chump change....it is more like chimp change.
It would appear that this post settles the question. I could be wrong.
And it doesn't appear to be "idiot", it appears to be "chimp", so we gots status quo, yo!!

Actually, it goes back further than Carter, all the way back to Eisenhower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddeq
I KNOW. Jeez. I'm not suggestig that American or Western interest in the Middle east began with Carter. I'm just saying that it wasn't until the 1960s and 70s that it really became clear that there wasn't another Persian Gulf and that it fell to Carter to realize that there was no alternative to Middle eastern oil and, as a result, he articulated a policy that said that the Persian Gulf was strategically important to the US to the exclusion of any other place on Earth. Obviously any place that had lots of oil was important to the US, we just didn't realize that this place was uniquely important until we realized that there wasnt' another place like it.