NationStates Jolt Archive


White skin is just a mutation

The Spurious Squirrel
18-02-2006, 17:27
"Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 16, 2005; A01



Scientists said yesterday that they have discovered a tiny genetic mutation that largely explains the first appearance of white skin in humans tens of thousands of years ago, a finding that helps solve one of biology's most enduring mysteries and illuminates one of humanity's greatest sources of strife.

The work suggests that the skin-whitening mutation occurred by chance in a single individual after the first human exodus from Africa, when all people were brown-skinned. That person's offspring apparently thrived as humans moved northward into what is now Europe, helping to give rise to the lightest of the world's races.

Leaders of the study, at Penn State University, warned against interpreting the finding as a discovery of "the race gene." Race is a vaguely defined biological, social and political concept, they noted, and skin color is only part of what race is -- and is not.

In fact, several scientists said, the new work shows just how small a biological difference is reflected by skin color. The newly found mutation involves a change of just one letter of DNA code out of the 3.1 billion letters in the human genome -- the complete instructions for making a human being.

"It's a major finding in a very sensitive area," said Stephen Oppenheimer, an expert in anthropological genetics at Oxford University, who was not involved in the work. "Almost all the differences used to differentiate populations from around the world really are skin deep."

The work raises a raft of new questions -- not least of which is why white skin caught on so thoroughly in northern climes once it arose. Some scientists suggest that lighter skin offered a strong survival advantage for people who migrated out of Africa by boosting their levels of bone-strengthening vitamin D; others have posited that its novelty and showiness simply made it more attractive to those seeking mates.

The work also reveals for the first time that Asians owe their relatively light skin to different mutations. That means that light skin arose independently at least twice in human evolution, in each case affecting populations with the facial and other traits that today are commonly regarded as the hallmarks of Caucasian and Asian races.

Several sociologists and others said they feared that such revelations might wrongly overshadow the prevailing finding of genetics over the past 10 years: that the number of DNA differences between races is tiny compared with the range of genetic diversity found within any single racial group.

Even study leader Keith Cheng said he was at first uncomfortable talking about the new work, fearing that the finding of such a clear genetic difference between people of African and European ancestries might reawaken discredited assertions of other purported inborn differences between races -- the most long-standing and inflammatory of those being intelligence.

"I think human beings are extremely insecure and look to visual cues of sameness to feel better, and people will do bad things to people who look different," Cheng said.

The discovery, described in today's issue of the journal Science, was an unexpected outgrowth of studies Cheng and his colleagues were conducting on inch-long zebra fish, which are popular research tools for geneticists and developmental biologists. Having identified a gene that, when mutated, interferes with its ability to make its characteristic black stripes, the team scanned human DNA databases to see if a similar gene resides in people.

To their surprise, they found virtually identical pigment-building genes in humans, chickens, dogs, cows and many others species, an indication of its biological value.

They got a bigger surprise when they looked in a new database comparing the genomes of four of the world's major racial groups. That showed that whites with northern and western European ancestry have a mutated version of the gene.

Skin color is a reflection of the amount and distribution of the pigment melanin, which in humans protects against damaging ultraviolet rays but in other species is also used for camouflage or other purposes. The mutation that deprives zebra fish of their stripes blocks the creation of a protein whose job is to move charged atoms across cell membranes, an obscure process that is crucial to the accumulation of melanin inside cells.

Humans of European descent, Cheng's team found, bear a slightly different mutation that hobbles the same protein with similar effect. The defect does not affect melanin deposition in other parts of the body, including the hair and eyes, whose tints are under the control of other genes.

A few genes have previously been associated with human pigment disorders -- most notably those that, when mutated, lead to albinism, an extreme form of pigment loss. But the newly found glitch is the first found to play a role in the formation of "normal" white skin. The Penn State team calculates that the gene, known as slc24a5, is responsible for about one-third of the pigment loss that made black skin white. A few other as-yet-unidentified mutated genes apparently account for the rest.

Although precise dating is impossible, several scientists speculated on the basis of its spread and variation that the mutation arose between 20,000 and 50,000 years ago. That would be consistent with research showing that a wave of ancestral humans migrated northward and eastward out of Africa about 50,000 years ago.

Unlike most mutations, this one quickly overwhelmed its ancestral version, at least in Europe, suggesting it had a real benefit. Many scientists suspect that benefit has to do with vitamin D, made in the body with the help of sunlight and critical to proper bone development.

Sun intensity is great enough in equatorial regions that the vitamin can still be made in dark-skinned people despite the ultraviolet shielding effects of melanin. In the north, where sunlight is less intense and cold weather demands that more clothing be worn, melanin's ultraviolet shielding became a liability, the thinking goes.

Today that solar requirement is largely irrelevant because many foods are supplemented with vitamin D.

Some scientists said they suspect that white skin's rapid rise to genetic dominance may also be the product of "sexual selection," a phenomenon of evolutionary biology in which almost any new and showy trait in a healthy individual can become highly prized by those seeking mates, perhaps because it provides evidence of genetic innovativeness.

Cheng and co-worker Victor A. Canfield said their discovery could have practical spinoffs. A gene so crucial to the buildup of melanin in the skin might be a good target for new drugs against melanoma, for example, a cancer of melanin cells in which slc24a5 works overtime.

But they and others agreed that, for better or worse, the finding's most immediate impact may be an escalating debate about the meaning of race.

Recent revelations that all people are more than 99.9 percent genetically identical has proved that race has almost no biological validity. Yet geneticists' claims that race is a phony construct have not rung true to many nonscientists -- and understandably so, said Vivian Ota Wang of the National Human Genome Research Institute in Bethesda.

"You may tell people that race isn't real and doesn't matter, but they can't catch a cab," Ota Wang said. "So unless we take that into account it makes us sound crazy.""

It's nice to know that the so called different races are different only in 1 little Genetic variation. Personally, I think it's fantastic that there is so little difference amongst us.

Why then, are so many people eager to look for reasons to alienate each other, instead of looking for better reasons to be content that we are all basically the same.

Instead of different parts of the world hating and demonising each other why can't love and friendship be the most important factor within different cultures.
Drunk commies deleted
18-02-2006, 17:29
Everything about humans is just due to a string of mutations. So what?
San haiti
18-02-2006, 17:31
I believe the correct response to this would be: "well, duh".
The Divided God
18-02-2006, 17:33
Evolution

If the person survived long enough to breed the trait must have been useful.
Fass
18-02-2006, 17:33
Next you're gonna tell us the Sun is really, really hot, no?
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
18-02-2006, 17:33
Welcome to last year's topic, population: you.
Drunk commies deleted
18-02-2006, 17:34
Next you're gonna tell us the Sun is really, really hot, no?
Only during the day though, right?
Begoned
18-02-2006, 17:34
Next you're gonna tell us the Sun is really, really hot, no?

No way! Your claims are fraudulent! I will dismiss this if you do not provide a link.
Tactical Grace
18-02-2006, 17:35
We're mutants? :eek:

COOL!!! :cool:
Druidville
18-02-2006, 17:36
It's a moot point, considering I didn't get any cool superhuman powers.
Begoned
18-02-2006, 17:37
I think we should make another sequel to X-Men. One of the mutants could be white! What a shocker that would be -- the most abnormal mutant of them all!
Varain
18-02-2006, 17:37
No way! Your claims are fraudulent! I will dismiss this if you do not provide a link.

http://www.alternativescience.com/is_the_sun_hot.htm
The Divided God
18-02-2006, 17:37
Next you're gonna tell us the Sun is really, really hot, no?
I disregard your reality and substitut it with my own.

The Sun is very cold.
Fass
18-02-2006, 17:37
Only during the day though, right?

I don't know, Apollo was pretty fucking hot all the time. Just don't ask Daphne.
Drunk commies deleted
18-02-2006, 17:38
It's a moot point, considering I didn't get any cool superhuman powers.
Yeah you did.

White Mutant superpowers include

1) The ability to have cops and judges go a little easier on you
2) The ability to find higher paying jobs more quickly
3) Super credit score powers
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
18-02-2006, 17:40
It's a moot point, considering I didn't get any cool superhuman powers.
You got the power of sun burn!
The Spurious Squirrel
18-02-2006, 17:46
Maybe, you should think about the implications of this, especially if you're one of the I hate "insert chosen culture/society/country" type of people.
Mintego
18-02-2006, 17:47
Yeah you did.

White Mutant superpowers include

1) The ability to have cops and judges go a little easier on you
2) The ability to find higher paying jobs more quickly
3) Super credit score powers

haha, I like that, too bad we did not get the asians power of great math skills, but hey, we can drive better so thats a plus.

Anyways, Its not a surprise about the mutation, all things in like have started that way. People with pale skin moved north, where the lived better because of less food competition, they were better adapted to life up north, while dark skin people were bwetter adapted to the south. I though this stuff was a givin.
Fass
18-02-2006, 17:47
Maybe, you should think about the implications of this, especially if you're one of the I hate "insert chosen culture/society/country" type of people.

There is no implication to this obviousness. Everything about humans is a "mutation."
The Spurious Squirrel
18-02-2006, 17:49
There is no implication to this obviousness. Everything about humans is a "mutation."You say that but fail to see the obvious implication, there's more we have in common with each other, than makes us different.
Fass
18-02-2006, 17:52
You say that but fail to see the obvious implication, there's more we have in common with each other, than makes us different.

Well, duh. :rolleyes: It's just that racists focus on the differences - that's the whole bloody point. To them this will just mean that white people are more "evolved."
Denidosh
18-02-2006, 18:05
So some group of black people evolved into white - or lighter skin in Indians/Native American/Asian, but it doesn't mean white is more 'evolved.' The point is, black has survived the longest, followed probably by asian and then by white. There is no difference in superiority (and I'm white. I'm just making a point that most racists might easily look over and have trouble griping back at.) It ALL has to do with Nature vs. Nurture. Nature influenced LOOK. LOOK, Survival quality in certain regions, and THAT IS IT. Everything beyond that has all to do with CULTURE and family upbringing.

:fluffle: Can't we all just get along?
The Spurious Squirrel
18-02-2006, 19:44
Thanks for that, Denidosh, I only wish more people saw things in the same way. Miniscule differences are just that, miniscule.
Velkya
18-02-2006, 19:52
I don't know, Apollo was pretty fucking hot all the time. Just don't ask Daphne.

Daphne was a lesbian, I'm thinking. And now, she's a lesbian tree. Go figure.

Can't we all just get along?

Unfourtunatly, look at the thousands of years of human history and you'll have your answer. Until humanity learns to accept differences (racial, politcal, sexual, monetary, etc.) the answer to that will be a harsh no.
Kzord
18-02-2006, 20:02
"Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

"Just a mutation"? All biological differences are the result of mutation, genius.
Velkya
18-02-2006, 20:08
haha, I like that, too bad we did not get the asians power of great math skills, but hey, we can drive better so thats a plus.

Anyways, Its not a surprise about the mutation, all things in like have started that way. People with pale skin moved north, where the lived better because of less food competition, they were better adapted to life up north, while dark skin people were bwetter adapted to the south. I though this stuff was a givin.

We can't rap, so that sucks. Discount Eminem, he's spray-painted white.

Though we won't admit it, we can't dance, either. :rolleyes:
Potarius
18-02-2006, 20:09
Alright! I always wanted to be a mutant!!

...
The Spurious Squirrel
18-02-2006, 20:12
"Just a mutation"? All biological differences are the result of mutation, genius."Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 16, 2005; A01"

The above is part of a report by the Washington Post.

The point of the article was that they had established a rough place and time for this mutation, which was shortly after humans travelled out of Africa to Europe.
[NS]Canada City
18-02-2006, 20:12
Cool, I'm an X-MEN
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
18-02-2006, 20:16
"Just a mutation"? All biological differences are the result of mutation, genius.
Na-uh, some of them are caused by Aliens.
The Lone Alliance
18-02-2006, 20:29
Yeah you did.

White Mutant superpowers include

1) The ability to have cops and judges go a little easier on you
2) The ability to find higher paying jobs more quickly
3) Super credit score powers

Well Black Super powers include:

1) The Ability to get in College easier.
2) The Ability to play the Race card in something you don't agree with.
3) The ability to look scarier to little old ladies.
Drunk commies deleted
18-02-2006, 20:33
Well Black Super powers include:

1) The Ability to get in College easier.
2) The Ability to play the Race card in something you don't agree with.
3) The ability to look scarier to little old ladies.
Well that's because they're mutants too. We all are.
Velkya
18-02-2006, 20:37
Velkya Superpowers include:

1) Being able to secret liquid nitrogen from his nipples.
2) Being able to play the "Race card" in poker.
3) Being able to mix several types of canned soup to create an uber-soup.
The Psyker
18-02-2006, 20:50
"Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin

By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 16, 2005; A01"

The above is part of a report by the Washington Post.

The point of the article was that they had established a rough place and time for this mutation, which was shortly after humans travelled out of Africa to Europe.
Isn't this kind of obviouse seeing as you find white humans in Europe and black humans in Africa, the fact that people became white after coming to Europe seems a bit like a given.
Sarkhaan
18-02-2006, 21:01
Only during the day though, right?
yeah. At night it cools down to a balmy negative 5-hundred-bazillion-million degrees. *nods*
Free Soviets
18-02-2006, 21:01
Everything about humans is just due to a string of mutations. So what?

the interesting thing in this case is that it is essentially entirely the result of a single point mutation - a single substitution in a base pair of nucleotides.
Sarkhaan
18-02-2006, 21:09
the interesting thing in this case is that it is essentially entirely the result of a single point mutation - a single substitution in a base pair of nucleotides.
eh...not all that rare...sicle cell is a single point mutation too...there are a few others that I'm not thinking of.
Free Soviets
18-02-2006, 21:11
eh...not all that rare...sicle cell is a single point mutation too...there are a few others that I'm not thinking of.

yeah, but i can't think of another single point mutation that has quite the sociological baggage of this one
Lunatic Goofballs
18-02-2006, 21:17
3) Being able to mix several types of canned soup to create an uber-soup.

:eek: Impressive!

Goofballian Super Powers include:

1) Indestructible genitals
2) Cosmic mud awareness
3) The ability to make beverages shoot out of people's nostrils.

:)
Sarkhaan
18-02-2006, 21:17
yeah, but i can't think of another single point mutation that has quite the sociological baggage of this one
true....although, to be fair, that isn't the mutations fault...lol
Lunatic Goofballs
18-02-2006, 21:18
Well Black Super powers include:

1) The Ability to get in College easier.
2) The Ability to play the Race card in something you don't agree with.
3) The ability to look scarier to little old ladies.

You forgot 4) Rhythm. :)
Vimeria
18-02-2006, 21:19
Oh, oh, I call the claws and the regeneration!
Vezkneika
18-02-2006, 21:22
Everything about humans is just due to a string of mutations. So what?

I couldn't agree more. :mp5:
Velkya
18-02-2006, 21:24
You forgot 4) Rhythm. :)

Or 5) Nice booties on the ladies. :cool:
Ifreann
18-02-2006, 21:26
:eek: Impressive!

Goofballian Super Powers include:

1) Indestructible genitals
2) Cosmic mud awareness
3) The ability to make beverages shoot out of people's nostrils.

:)

Ooh, lets all do this!

Super Powers o' Ifreann
1)The power to spontaneaously implode, and then explode again.
2)The power to do the above so fast the human eye can't see it.
3)4 extra testicles, in unexpected places.
Velkya
18-02-2006, 21:29
Ooh, lets all do this!

Super Powers o' Ifreann
1)The power to spontaneaously implode, and then explode again.
2)The power to do the above so fast the human eye can't see it.
3)4 extra testicles, in unexpected places.

Posers.
Lunatic Goofballs
18-02-2006, 21:34
Posers.

Well, we can't all make icy nipple juice, can we? :)
Velkya
18-02-2006, 21:35
You can't all have super cool superpowers!

Then they wouldn't be super! They wouldn't even be cool! You see what you're doing?! :D
Vimeria
18-02-2006, 22:28
Then they wouldn't be super! They wouldn't even be cool! You see what you're doing?! :D

Well of course their coolness will go down, but I estimate that even in the worst case scenario the decrease would only be around a quarter of a megafonzie. I mean they're superpowers for crying out loud, they'll still be way cool.
Sarkhaan
18-02-2006, 22:42
:eek: Impressive!

Goofballian Super Powers include:

1) Indestructible genitals
2) Cosmic mud awareness
3) The ability to make beverages shoot out of people's nostrils.

:)
I can attest to that one.
Pananab
18-02-2006, 22:45
Yeah, so is dark skin, blonde hair, red hair, blue eyes-
Hell, EYES are a mutation!
Markreich
18-02-2006, 22:51
You forgot 4) Rhythm. :)

Um... there's a mass of several thousand non-black bassists and drummers outside... and they seem a little upset with that "stereotype." Neil Pert, in particular, is as angry as a Canadian can get in public. ;)
New Genoa
18-02-2006, 23:05
Yeah, so is dark skin, blonde hair, red hair, blue eyes-
Hell, EYES are a mutation!

Even breasts.
The Psyker
18-02-2006, 23:06
Even breasts.
God bless evolution
Lunatic Goofballs
18-02-2006, 23:12
Um... there's a mass of several thousand non-black bassists and drummers outside... and they seem a little upset with that "stereotype." Neil Pert, in particular, is as angry as a Canadian can get in public. ;)

On the contrary, I would never assume that a white person(or any other) has no rhythm. Of course, when you come across one that doesn't, there is nothing more pathetic to watch/listen to.

However, I have never met the black man without it, have you?
Markreich
18-02-2006, 23:29
On the contrary, I would never assume that a white person(or any other) has no rhythm. Of course, when you come across one that doesn't, there is nothing more pathetic to watch/listen to.

However, I have never met the black man without it, have you?

Yep. Besides my boss, Biz Markie comes to mind. :)
Southeastasia
28-02-2006, 11:29
Evolution IS about mutation and survival....so it's no surprise to me at all that when members of humankind moved up north into Europe, the ones who were Caucasian had an advantage over those that weren't.
Man in Black
28-02-2006, 11:52
But.......but........... We still all hate Jews right? :confused:
Upper Botswavia
28-02-2006, 12:08
I was gonna say "Everything is a mutation, so what?" but about 600 people have already said it in this thread, so I won't.

Instead, I will list my superpowers, cause that seems like a game that is more fun anyway...

1) Can stun people into comas with boisterous laugh
2) Deadly accurate when throwing pink erasers (either rectangle or pencil top)
4) Can count
NianNorth
28-02-2006, 14:07
So some group of black people evolved into white - or lighter skin in Indians/Native American/Asian, but it doesn't mean white is more 'evolved.' The point is, black has survived the longest, followed probably by asian and then by white. There is no difference in superiority (and I'm white. I'm just making a point that most racists might easily look over and have trouble griping back at.) It ALL has to do with Nature vs. Nurture. Nature influenced LOOK. LOOK, Survival quality in certain regions, and THAT IS IT. Everything beyond that has all to do with CULTURE and family upbringing.

:fluffle: Can't we all just get along?
No there is nothing in the findings that states the original 'species' had black skin as we know it now. The skin colour may well have darkened over time. However if you take evolution further back, there are very few fur covered animals with dark skin, as the pigment is a waste of energy. So it could be fair to say that the 'original' skin colour was pink, or tan or.. or...
If what people want to see is some ones skin colour, or height or weight rather than the person they are and the behaviours they display, then no amount of research will change that.
Neu Leonstein
28-02-2006, 14:12
Now it would be interesting to see whether that white people gene has any connections to genes regulating dancing skills, basketball skills, penis size, skill with money, skill with math, whether or not we wear a small sack of gold around our necks and so on...