NationStates Jolt Archive

I suppose the thread is more specific than the thread itself, but its symbolic of it.

From my own observations, it seems like France has been strengthening relations with a large part of the world in the last decade or so. Chirac and Putin seem to be getting pretty buddy-buddy, with Chirac having been the first one to visit certain sites in russia, presumably privy to new russian missile technology, etc. This also seems to be going on elsewhere; India and France are getting particularly close. France has a number of defense agreements with middle-eastern states, like the U.A.E., Qatar, and others. It has been getting closer with china, pushing for possibilities of arms-trades with it, etc.

I'm just curious as to others observations about this, or if I'm just off my rocker. It seems like France has realized that while europe and america are friends, it could open partnerships with the new possible powers, and assure itself a sidekick-like position, with all the benefits.

Of all European nations, I trust France the least. I trust Russia even less.

So you hate the Filthy French, and the Drunken Russians, what about the Shifty Krauts?

Not to mention the dreary Belgians.

So you hate the Filthy French, and the Drunken Russians, what about the Shifty Krauts?

"We have seen the Wiley Philipino." - maybe Marlon Brando

Bush and Putin are buddy-buddy. What does that mean?!

Bush and Putin are buddy-buddy. What does that mean?!

Hee, hee. Putin Bush.

It's so easy to criticize us the French, especially when none of you guys have ever been to France. While I dislike a great deal the current government we have in power, I still think they have some credit for at least standing up to an illegal war in Iraq: no offense guys, but I don't trust the current US administration neither their lapdog Blair.

It's so easy to criticize us the French, especially when none of you guys have ever been to France. While I dislike a great deal the current government we have in power, I still think they have some credit for at least standing up to an illegal war in Iraq: no offense guys, but I don't trust the current US administration neither their lapdog Blair.
I guess you guys didn't hear about the great diaspora of Americans to Finland afer the 2004 elections. After wandering around in Central Europe for 40 days (which was after Canada), we decided that Finland was the most respectable land on the planet. Followed by Sweden. To top it off, we refer to our president as "Mrs. O'Brian". We feel like we're truely home.

Of all European nations, I trust France the least. I trust Russia even less.

no one asked you dickhead

no one asked you dickhead

Wow. It's called an "opinion", jackass. I'll go out of my way, and pity you, because I assume you are somewhat retarded in the understanding of internet forums.

Maybe if so many Americans weren't so hostile to the French they might be more inclined to ally with the US...

I think America and France were both right about each other. Neither of them had altruistic reasons for their stance on the Iraq war.

Maybe if so many Americans weren't so hostile to the French they might be more inclined to ally with the US...

why would they? that would make sense

I think America and France were both right about each other. Neither of them had altruistic reasons for their stance on the Iraq war.

*hands Kzord a cookie*

Maybe if so many Americans weren't so hostile to the French they might be more inclined to ally with the US...
The hilarious thing is, France held out in Vietnam twice as long as the US, fought Islamic extremists in Algeria while the US was still in the midst of communist hysteria, fought alongside the US (with US equipment) under the UN flag in Korea, fought on the side of Israel during the Suez Crisis, fought alongside the US during the Gulf War, helped patrol the Iraqi no-fly zone, joined in the bombing of Serbia and committed ground troops for use in the invasion that never came, and fought in Afghanistan.

But the Americans hate them because for one war, they said "no, that's bullshit". The Americans really are an intolerant lot if they can't give an ally a pass once in a century. :rolleyes:

*hands Kzord a cookie*

I have no idea what that is supposed to symbolise.

The hilarious thing is, France held out in Vietnam twice as long as the US, fought Islamic extremists in Algeria while the US was still in the midst of communist hysteria, fought alongside the US (with US equipment) under the UN flag in Korea, fought on the side of Israel during the Suez Crisis, fought alongside the US during the Gulf War, helped patrol the Iraqi no-fly zone, joined in the bombing of Serbia and committed ground troops for use in the invasion that never came, and fought in Afghanistan.

But the Americans hate them because for one war, they said "no, that's bullshit". The Americans really are an intolerant lot if they can't give an ally a pass once in a century. :rolleyes:

Not to mention the American War of Independance, it's surprising how quickly they forgot that...

I have no idea what that is supposed to symbolise.
http://www.cookies-etc.com/images/largecookies/homecookiestack.jpg

Not to mention the American War of Independance, it's surprising how quickly they forgot that...
Yes, how quickly they forget that it is the British who always held them back. :p

a picture

No, not the word "cookie", the metaphor of giving one.

I have no idea what that is supposed to symbolise.

It's a symbol of approval, it's fairly common on this forum.

Yes, how quickly they forget that it is the British who always held them back. :p

Shhh... they might hear you!:eek:

It's a symbol of approval, it's fairly common on this forum.

Awesome. Now get get to award myself a stamp of approval.

http://i1.tinypic.com/nzn75x.jpg

As far as I see, it is the only way to keep the Kaiser in check. There is no way he's going to risk a war on two fronts.

On many boards, it is common to post a picture of a seal, accompanied by the words "Seal of Approval". Goobergunchia was quite famous for this here.

Not to mention the dreary Belgians.
No, no, no - they make the best beer.

doesn't putin mean "whore" in french?

just to say.

doesn't putin mean "whore" in french?

just to say.

Putain. Sounds like it's right between "Putin" and "Pétain", though.

And I see that, once again, one of my threads turn into flaming and off-topic drivel.

I'm not surprised or anything, but glad. Change is bad.

I always though that the french and russians have been historically closer to each other part form a few tiny episodes. their probably wanting to cover each others back and try and stop Germany out grow one of them. (or there wantnig to refight the first world war again Just kidding )

During the Cold War, Western Europe had the backbone to oppose a country contradictory to its way of life. Now, Russia is slipping into its old habits, and Western Europe is rushing to embrace it. Do these governments have any courage left?

During the Cold War, Western Europe had the backbone to oppose a country contradictory to its way of life. Now, Russia is slipping into its old habits, and Western Europe is rushing to embrace it. Do these governments have any courage left?
Not "these governments", but "these leaders". Personally, I have to say that I can't stand Putin, and the worst thing about both Schröder and Chirac has been that they were both machos, real men - as is Putin. So they really were all buddy-buddy.

Now Schröder has got a very well-paying job in a German-Russian oil consortium, and Chirac is still going. And Merkel has met with Russian opposition people and has stopped all the over-done friendly-talk.

All that being said, the partnership of Europe with Russia is an important one strategically and economically, and although it's moving into that direction, it's not nearly as contradictory yet as the USSR was.

Meanwhile, Russia is rediscovering its Cold War policy of getting involved in the Middle East, and every failure of the US is a triumph for Russia.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,401078,00.html

Now Schröder has got a very well-paying job in a German-Russian oil consortium, and Chirac is still going. And Merkel has met with Russian opposition people and has stopped all the over-done friendly-talk.
To be honest Merkel has more backbone than Schroeder and Chirac combined. I admire her.

All that being said, the partnership of Europe with Russia is an important one strategically and economically, and although it's moving into that direction, it's not nearly as contradictory yet as the USSR was.
There is no doubt that Russia is an economic boon to everyone, including the Russians. As a matter of fact, I have no problem in dealing with Russia. It's the Russian government I don't like, and I am concerned that Western Europe is as close to Russia as it is. I believe that the Kremlin's backflip on democracy and individual freedom should not be rewarded, and Russia is coercing people to its side. The recent natural gas price hike is just the beginning.
Meanwhile, Russia is rediscovering its Cold War policy of getting involved in the Middle East, and every failure of the US is a triumph for Russia.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,401078,00.html
It can't do much. Russia has no money, no respect, and has lost its superpower status. The most Russia can do is act as a giant windbag.

It's the Russian government I don't like, and I am concerned that Western Europe is as close to Russia as it is.
Rest assured that most of Europe is not too fond of Russia on the street level, and on the governmental level, the EU concentrates mainly on Eastern Europe.
But what do you expect people to do? Every time European heads of state visit Russia they mention their concerns, and Putin says they're working on it.

It can't do much. Russia has no money, no respect, and has lost its superpower status. The most Russia can do is act as a giant windbag.
It's got guns. Plenty of them, cheap and these days again of pretty high quality.
And it's also got lots of technology that is not readily available in the Middle East, and while the US is making itself enemies, Russia can present itself as an alternative pathway to the West.

Of all European nations, I trust France the least. I trust Russia even less.

Much as it may surprise you, Russia is a European nation.

Much as it may surprise you, Russia is a European nation.
Exactly. It's not an EU nation, but I hope time will change that. Qui vivra verra.

Rest assured that most of Europe is not too fond of Russia on the street level, and on the governmental level, the EU concentrates mainly on Eastern Europe.
But what do you expect people to do? Every time European heads of state visit Russia they mention their concerns, and Putin says they're working on it.
Isolate Putin. Don't sanction him or anything like that, but just make him feel like no one loves him. For starters, Chirac should stop acting like Putin's best friend.

t's got guns. Plenty of them, cheap and these days again of pretty high quality.
And it's also got lots of technology that is not readily available in the Middle East, and while the US is making itself enemies, Russia can present itself as an alternative pathway to the West.
And Venezuela has gotten military aid from the US up until very recently. I have my doubts about arm sales and friends.

Isolate Putin. Don't sanction him or anything like that, but just make him feel like no one loves him. For starters, Chirac should stop acting like Putin's best friend.
Putin's only friend. :p And he isn't acting.

Putin's only friend. :p And he isn't acting.
Not acting, huh? I knew from day one that Chirac was seriously messed up.

I think America and France were both right about each other. Neither of them had altruistic reasons for their stance on the Iraq war.

The first common sense observation I've read in this forum in 45 minutes!!!

No, no, no - they make the best beer.

I'm really wanting a Belgian Ale right now...

The hilarious thing is, France held out in Vietnam twice as long as the US, fought Islamic extremists in Algeria while the US was still in the midst of communist hysteria, fought alongside the US (with US equipment) under the UN flag in Korea, fought on the side of Israel during the Suez Crisis, fought alongside the US during the Gulf War, helped patrol the Iraqi no-fly zone, joined in the bombing of Serbia and committed ground troops for use in the invasion that never came, and fought in Afghanistan.

But the Americans hate them because for one war, they said "no, that's bullshit". The Americans really are an intolerant lot if they can't give an ally a pass once in a century. :rolleyes:

So 1945-1954 was longer than 1960-61 till 1973?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dien_Ben_Phu after Dien Ben Phu, it was all over for the french. The treaty was signed shortly thereafter.

Fought Extremist in Algeria, and lost. (so what if you/french/whatever fought em first, all you did was inspire them that they could beat a western power)

Fought alongside their interests in the Suez war.(it was a french built canal after all)

Listen, I'm trying not to knock the french....much. And if you want to count fighting muslim extremists, we were fighting them in the Phillipine Insurrection from 1899-1913. Yes the Moro's(i think thats how its spelled) were muslim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine-American_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_rebellion


Or you could count us fighting the Barbary pirates in the Barbary war. But if you include that, you could include all the other wars the Europeans had with the Turks/Arabs throughout history. The list can go on.

Of all European nations, I trust France the least. I trust Russia even less.
hmm...
How can you trust someone less than the one you trust the least?

hmm...
How can you trust someone less than the one you trust the least?
Some people don't consider Russia on the European peninsula. Even though it clearly is.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rs.html
Little bit of dirt between Poland and Lithuania, on the Baltic.
Not really correcting you, Helioterra. Just, quoting. *shifty eyes*

Some people don't consider Russia on the European peninsula. Even though it clearly is.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rs.html
Little bit of dirt between Poland and Lithuania, on the Baltic.
Not really correcting you, Helioterra. Just, quoting. *shifty eyes*
No problem, sir :)

That little part is called Kaliningrad (btw).
Europe reaches all the way to Ural mountains. "European peninsula" is quite misleading.

That little part is called Kaliningrad (btw).
*Sticks fingers in ears*

No it's not! No it's not!

Europe reaches all the way to Ural mountains. "European peninsula" is quite misleading.
That's what my geography teacher taught me in the third grade.

They also taught me that Europe wasn't a continent, per se, in just physical geography. Its a continent because Europeans want it to be a continent, due to cultural and historical differences, which have absolutely nothing to do with geography (in my third grade teacher's opinion). At the tender age of eight, that was a whole lot to take in. I didn't even know where I lived on the globe for Christs sake. As I've grown older, I've twisted and confused the terminology and knowledge that has been bestowed unto me, and thus "European Peninsula" works quite well.

I've also heard that the Urals are just glorified hills. I don't know what to think these days.

I've also noticed that Finland is "Western European" and "Eastern European" at will. Very interesting.... ;)

They also taught me that Europe wasn't a continent, per se, in just physical geography.
Exactly, Europe is what we make of it.

I've also noticed that Finland is "Western European" and "Eastern European" at will. Very interesting.... ;)
90% of Finns want desperately to be Western Europeans. They are afraid that if others suddenly realise that we are actually in Eastern Europe, something terrible will happen. We will start speaking Moldovian and instead of mobiles, Nokia will focus on rubberboots again.

90% of Finns want desperately to be Western Europeans. They are afraid that if others suddenly realise that we are actually in Eastern Europe, something terrible will happen. We will start speaking Moldovian and instead of mobiles, Nokia will focus on rubberboots again.
My statement about the "Western Europe" thing came from Hufvudstadsbladet where the published some article (I don't remember what) where they left Finland out of the "Western" loop while allowing Sweden and other Nordic neighbors in to the groups of Centeral Europe and whatnot.

I view "Western Europe" from an Iron Curtain view. Finland wasn't controled by the USSR. So, its "Western European" even though its obviously in Eastern Europe. Nokia making just rubberboots again is certainly bad, although enertaining in a post-apocalptic Karelian sense. :)

Everyone keeps mentioning how western europe has no backbone, etc, but really, what do you consider backbone?

Backbone, in your eyes, would be following everything america says? Trying to further american ideals?

The French, and others, are trying to further their own goals, same as every country in the world. America has been friends with Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, the Shah of Iran, and countless others with bad records with their people. The US trades very, very much with china, though it has horrible human rights issues.

So for the French to align themselves with countries that aren't america, means that they don't have a backbone? No, they are choosing their own path, through their own means. Thats more of a backbone then any of the coalition of the willing, or many other nations in the world.