NationStates Jolt Archive

A group of high school auto shop students make a hybrid sports car that runs on soybean oill, goes from zero to sixty in 4 seconds and gets 50 miles to the gallon.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/17/eveningnews/main1329941.shtml

doooood....
i'd buy that
how much???

A group of high school auto shop students make a hybrid sports car that runs on soybean oill, goes from zero to sixty in 4 seconds and gets 50 miles to the gallon.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/17/eveningnews/main1329941.shtml

Start investing in soybeans immediatley!

Seriously though, these high school kids are impressive and this car could cause quite a stir if all the reported facts are true.

Ni-ice. Maybe everyone should just build their own cars... :p

It'll never happen while Exxon and other oil companies are still making record profits. This will cut into their profits and they'll keep it from seeing the light of day.

as long as these kids dont sell out on the rights to one of teh big car companies [who would undoubtably stick the plans on a shelf until the oil runs out] then all might go well with the world

make more and sell them, i say, making lots of money and saving the planet while they're at it

Sadly, this car will never see the light of showroom. The barriers to entry in the auto business are just to high.

If the reported facts are true however, good job.

I have a diesel pick-up that gets 60 mpg...I could easily convert it to bio-diesel. What's so impressive?

BTW: It's not a hybrid. (The car in the story.)

Eh, shows that the auto-industry just plain isn't that bothered about alternative energy. I mean if students can do it, you'd have thought those massive R&D departments would have being able to construct just as good a car a lot sooner. They probably did, but thought "Screw it, petrol cars are more profitable" and hid it from the world.

Can anybody find how much it costs to produce a gallon of soybean oil? I can't find it anywhere, and I'm wondering if it's cost effective, compared to diesel fuel, which also gets great mileage in a passenger vehicle.

This is not terribly surprising. Most people underestimate high school students. They forget how much they've actually forgotten since high school.

I have a diesel pick-up that gets 60 mpg...I could easily convert it to bio-diesel. What's so impressive?

BTW: It's not a hybrid.

Was it built by your local high school shop class?

The more research I do, the more disappointed I become. Basically, soybean oil is vegetable oil. With a few small modifications, just about any diesel engine can be run on "degummed" soybean oil.

So basically, these kids built a sports car with a diesel engine, then modified it to run on the much more expensive soybean oil.

Nothing that hasn't been done before. It's basically bio-diesel. And though it would be cost effective to get used vegetable oil free, and process it into bio-diesel, it is more expensive to use new soybean oil, even at 50 mpg, which a regualr diesel can do.

It's not that impressive, it just shows how goddamned lazy American auto industries have gotten on both levels of leadership and labor. The leadership is incompetent and the labor is retarded. When high school students produce better designs, investors in American auto should be concerned.

Bah, I've driven this car. It's a rickety shit-box.

It's not that impressive, it just shows how goddamned lazy American auto industries have gotten on both levels of leadership and labor. The leadership is incompetent and the labor is retarded. When high school students produce better designs, investors in American auto should be concerned.

They didn't produce a better design.

Eh, shows that the auto-industry just plain isn't that bothered about alternative energy. I mean if students can do it, you'd have thought those massive R&D departments would have being able to construct just as good a car a lot sooner. They probably did, but thought "Screw it, petrol cars are more profitable" and hid it from the world.

They have. It's called a diesel engine. They've been around for years. (Read the previous posts)

The problem with bio-diesel is that you can't buy it anywhere. It is not the automotive industry's fault. There's no infastructure to support bio-diesel.

Can anybody find how much it costs to produce a gallon of soybean oil? I can't find it anywhere, and I'm wondering if it's cost effective, compared to diesel fuel, which also gets great mileage in a passenger vehicle.

I think it's around $2 a gallon to buy.

Of course, once people start using six million barrels a day, that will probably change.

Another example of the greatest asset this country has: the part time inventor that comes up with something revolutionary. I wish these kids the best of luck in whatever they choose to do with their amazing invention.

Except that the auto industry has done it as well. Maybe not in the States, but VW has built something called the "EcoRacer". Not sure though whether they'll get it into production.
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/vw-ecoracer-concept.htm

This technology isn't actually anything new. The use of biodeisel is as old as the diesel engine itself, I think the first deisel engine actually ran off peanut oil. Soybean oil is just the same as any other vegetable oil. Then they found petroleum products to be more economical. In fact if they were going to produce biodiesel on a large scale, they would probably end up switching to different crops such as rapeseed, they produce a lot more oil than soybeans. The technology's always been here, it's just not been economical and there hasn't been the political will. With the way the oil situation is going, that could change soon.

But good for those students, doing a project like that shows talent.

This technology isn't actually anything new. The use of biodeisel is as old as the diesel engine itself, I think the first deisel engine actually ran off peanut oil. Soybean oil is just the same as any other vegetable oil. Then they found petroleum products to be more economical. In fact if they were going to produce biodiesel on a large scale, they would probably end up switching to different crops such as rapeseed, they produce a lot more oil than soybeans. The technology's always been here, it's just not been economical and there hasn't been the political will. With the way the oil situation is going, that could change soon.

But good for those students, doing a project like that shows talent.
Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure that you can get more vegatable oil from hemp than just about anything else.

Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure that you can get more vegatable oil from hemp than just about anything else.
Actually, I'm a proponet of switchgrass. And I'm close to sinking money into firms that make ethanol. They've figured out ways to efficiently make ethanol from corn waste, something the Brazilians do easily with sugarcane waste.

Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure that you can get more vegatable oil from hemp than just about anything else.
Western governments are starting to wake up to the realisation that hemp has a lot of industrial uses and could be an efficient crop. I know that in the UK there has been a few farms springing up that grow special varities of hemp that have little or no narcotic value. Though apparantly there could be even more efficient crops than hemp. I was looking at this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel) for crop yields and the figures are as follows for oil crops:

* Soybean: 40 to 50 US gal/acre (55 to 72 L/km²)
* Rapeseed: 110 to 145 US gal/acre (160 to 210 L/km²)
* Mustard: 140 US gal/acre (200 L/km²)
* Jatropha: 175 US gal/acre (250 L/km²)
* Palm oil: 650 US gal/acre (950 L/km²) [6]
* Algae: 10,000 to 20,000 US gal/acre (15,000 to 30,000 L/km²)
Apparantly the algae is only at an experimental stage with special varities, but if they could manage to make that commercially viable then it could revolutionise fuel production.

Actually, I'm a proponet of switchgrass. And I'm close to sinking money into firms that make ethanol. They've figured out ways to efficiently make ethanol from corn waste, something the Brazilians do easily with sugarcane waste.
Except the extraction costs for switchgrass are so obscenely high it's more energy efficient to just use oil in the first place. You know you're dealing with a republican zealot when they throw out switchgrass :rolleyes:.

Except the extraction costs for switchgrass are so obscenely high it's more energy efficient to just use oil in the first place. You know you're dealing with a republican zealot when they throw out switchgrass :rolleyes:.
Well, I guess we'll see in the coming decades who's right.

Well, I guess we'll see in the coming decades who's right.

Well, on the off chance Peak Oil is true, you wont be able to see anything if it isn't daytime....less you've got some candles.

Well, on the off chance Peak Oil is true, you wont be able to see anything if it isn't daytime....less you've got some candles.
That theory has been gaining some traction lately, and from what I can tell, most of its major proponets don't think oil will literally run out, but simply that we'll never see cheap oil again. Still not a pleasant prediction, but at least it means that it'll still be around, even if it has to usher in major socioeconomic changes.

Actually, I'm a proponet of switchgrass. And I'm close to sinking money into firms that make ethanol. They've figured out ways to efficiently make ethanol from corn waste, something the Brazilians do easily with sugarcane waste.I'd advise against it. It looks promising, but after further research I found that many experts think that ethanol production from corn isn't sustainable. Nutrients are taken from the soil to grow the corn, and the corn is turned into fuel, and eventually the soil isn't fertile...
The details are kind of foggy, as I researched this all for a Transportation Tech project two years ago, but I do remember also reading about kelp as a promising source of ethanol. Cheaper, more sustainable, a better source of celulose... If you really are thinking about investing, it's worth your time to look into it further before deciding which way to go, eh?

Seriously though, these high school kids are impressive and this car could cause quite a stir if all the reported facts are true.
No doubt they're impressive, but this has been done before. I'm suprised that yall are suprised by what these kids did. I thought it was common knowledge that better technology exists and is being supressed by the auto/oil industries. The auto industry has not been outdone.

Have a look at the website of the European Biodiesel Board. Because petrol is so expensive in the EU (for reasons which include taxes of course) most engines there run on diesel now, and the switch to biodiesel is in progress.
http://www.ebb-eu.org/biodiesel.php

And while we're at it with the Diesel Engines...
http://www.autoclub.com.au/2005/12/audi-r10-v12-twin-turbo.html
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=218324
http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/r10.html

I'd advise against it. It looks promising, but after further research I found that many experts think that ethanol production from corn isn't sustainable. Nutrients are taken from the soil to grow the corn, and the corn is turned into fuel, and eventually the soil isn't fertile...
The details are kind of foggy, as I researched this all for a Transportation Tech project two years ago, but I do remember also reading about kelp as a promising source of ethanol. Cheaper, more sustainable, a better source of celulose... If you really are thinking about investing, it's worth your time to look into it further before deciding which way to go, eh?
I have a few companies I'm thinking about. Corn will be important in the early stages of its use, but there are other sources of celulose. My bet is also that sugarcane stalks and such will be imported from Brazil to be refined in N. America.
In any case, this discussion right now serves only an academic purpose. Only one major ethanol supplier is publically traded, with the rest being part of larger corporations. There is this one I'm looking at, however, that is a subsidiary of Shell. They built a refinery near Ottowa that uses a revolutionary process to make ethanol, and it may be spun off or sold in the next few years. I don't have the name off the top of my head, however.

That theory has been gaining some traction lately, and from what I can tell, most of its major proponets don't think oil will literally run out, but simply that we'll never see cheap oil again. Still not a pleasant prediction, but at least it means that it'll still be around, even if it has to usher in major socioeconomic changes.

Meh, if your grass doesn't give more than it takes.....

Sports cars died many years ago. There are no true modern sports cars, let alone hybrid sports cars.

What's it sound like? Does it have that classic solid-lifter clacking sound? If not, then I won't be buying one.

Nice looking car.

Too bad that after you add the 200+ lbs of emmissions and "safety" crap the DOT demands it won't be nearly so impressive. :(

I still like the SMART cars. http://www.smart.com

Their Sport version is teh 30/\/\3.

Whoa... this is even better.

"The cost of converting can be as low as $1,200...."

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060125/NEWSREC0101/60125012/1001/NEWSREC0201

My high school got rid of the auto shop...wtf?

Nice looking car.

Too bad that after you add the 200+ lbs of emmissions and "safety" crap the DOT demands it won't be nearly so impressive. :(

I still like the SMART cars. http://www.smart.com

Their Sport version is teh 30/\/\3.

OF course, then you have to worry about SMART tipping (http://www.boingboing.net/2005/04/30/old_cowtipping_new_s.html) by really obnoxious idiots.

OF course, then you have to worry about SMART tipping (http://www.boingboing.net/2005/04/30/old_cowtipping_new_s.html) by really obnoxious idiots.
Only on their "egg cars". The Roadster would be much harder to tip (http://www.smart.com/-snm-0135268844-1140197550-0000019717-0000000805-1140449284-enm-is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/mpc-uk-content-Site/en_UK/-/GBP/SVCPresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite%3a%2f%2fmpc-uk-Site%2fmpc-uk%2ecom%2fRootFolder%2fsmart%2fmodelle%2fsmartroadster%2fausstattung%2f60kw%2fhighlights%2epage). I'd buy a Roadster but not a Smart Egg.