NationStates Jolt Archive

I was watching the Daily Show today, and they reported about a movie, made in Turkey, that portrays Americans as children-killers, among other things. This movie made more $ on its opening day than any other movie in Turkey. This got me into wondering why exactly the Arabs hate us with such ferocity. Iraq and our support of Israel have a lot to do with it, of course, but even before the Iraq invasion they weren't exactly our biggest fans. So, can anyone please adequately explain exactly why they hate us?

I was watching the Daily Show today, and they reported about a movie, made in Turkey, that portrays Americans as children-killers, among other things. This movie made more $ on its opening day than any other movie in Turkey. This got me into wondering why exactly the Arabs hate us with such ferocity. Iraq and our support of Israel have a lot to do with it, of course, but even before the Iraq invasion they weren't exactly our biggest fans. So, can anyone please adequately explain exactly why they hate us?

They hate us because we don't know why they hate us.

If you were watching the Daily Show you would have noticed that they then went on to sample just some of the Arab-hate Americans indulge in

Because they don't know why you hate them.

So much misunderstanding in the world. :(

1. Turkey is not Arab.
2. Arab is not Muslim.

The rest... I'm surprised you can get this crooked perspective out of watching the Daily Show.

I hate Arabs. They should be exterminated every Arab sole living alive now. When I come into power in America I will take control of the Middle East and make secret concentration camps. There I will gas them all. ALL OF THEM. DOWN WITH THE ARAB RACE! ONCE THE ARABS ARE GONE! LET THE EUROPEANS OCCUPY THE MIDDLE EAST!

I hate Arabs. They should be exterminated every Arab sole living alive now. When I come into power in America I will take control of the Middle East and make secret concentration camps. There I will gas them all. ALL OF THEM. DOWN WITH THE ARAB RACE! ONCE THE ARABS ARE GONE! LET THE EUROPEANS OCCUPY THE MIDDLE EAST!
I don't know whether to :rolleyes: , :headbang: or :p

Arabs hate Americans? are you sure about that assumption?

Whilst I'm here, can anyone explain how they can bear to watch this kind of rubbish. You can barely hear the guy speak because of all the whooping and clapping and it's simply not funny. I caught this particular one but it just served to remind me why I hated US tv so much whenever I've lived there.

It's like The Late Edition (anyone with access to BBC4 make sure you watch it, cancel all your plans if need be) but with all the good bits taken away and replaced by the audience clapping and whistling

That's a bit like asking how long is a bit of string.

"Arabs" = people = individuals. So why 1 hates America may be because he/she is jealous of American freedoms. Another may think you're the biggest infidels on the face of the planet. A third may feel any populace capable of voting Bush into office is a danger to the planet (I'd have a lot of sympathy with that view, but then my compatriots voted for Blair, bless their little cotton socks, the stupid a**holes ... ) A fourth may actually think Americans are super-duper cuddly chaps.

But probably they mostly hate America cos their society tells them they should ... the human race isn't known for its tendency to think things through for itself ...

Nobody can tell you accurately except each individual Arab. And currently it looks like they'd rather shoot you & us than tell us anything. :headbang:

I don't know whether to :rolleyes: , :headbang: or :p:headbang: , definitely.

ps Guantanamo Bay probably didn't help much!

Rivermist']

but then my compatriots voted for Blair, bless their little cotton socks, the stupid a**holes ... )



Haha, and there's a better viable alternative?

If you were watching the Daily Show you would have noticed that they then went on to sample just some of the Arab-hate Americans indulge in
Oh yes, because the bad guys happen to have been Arabs a few times, that makes us 73h l337 pl4y3r-h4t3z0rz. The bad guys in action movies are always charicatures, charicatures of white people (Sum of All Fears, which was changed from Arabs to Neo-Nazis), charicatures of blacks (Black Gestapo, don't ask how I know about that movie), charicatures of Colombians (Crocodile Dundee II), charicatures of Russians (Air Force One), charicatures of Indians (Temple of Doom), charicatures of Martians (War of the Worlds) etc., etc.
Action movies aren't based around there sympathetic and indepth portrayals of the villains, they're based around Harrison Ford diving through a plate glass window with an AK-47 in each hand, and beating the crap out of some guy using only his testicles.
This movie, on the other hand, is Americansploitation. Or something like that.

That said, after seeing the clip from the Daily Show, I am so going to see it ASAP. "Now they won't suffocate" - fucking bad ass.

I dunno. Go ask some Arabs.

Originally, because of the US support of the occupation of Palestine and the expropiation of Arab land to be given to their racial enemy, the Jewish people. But now Bush has given them many more reasons.

Ok, I really need to state this again:

Tukey≠Arabs

Because: Turks are not Arabs.

Arabs≠Muslims

Because: not all Arabs are Muslim, and CERTAINLY not all Muslims are Arab. Dudes! Indonesia matches the population of the Arab world, and it is not (obviously) the only Muslim country.

This is not to avoid the burning question of the op. No, not at all. Considering it, it's nonsensical nature matches the op's ignorance of facts.

I don't know whether to :rolleyes: , :headbang: or :p

For his sake, I sincerely hope he was joking...

First, saying that all Arabs hate us is a hasty generalization.

Although, the Arab people that do dislike us, dislike us for many regions. One of the main reasons though is because we are infidels in their eyes. We do many things that are against the Muslim religion, and a majority percentage of Arab people in the middle east are Muslim.

Also, for every middle eastern citizen that has appreciated what the US has done for them, there is one and a half who neither likes nor appreciates the US still being so prevelant in the Middle East.

And those are two issues out of many, many more.

"Why do Arabs hate Americans?"

I know I'll catch flack for this, but in a nutshell it's because we're "infidels" and not Muslims. True story.

"Why do Arabs hate Americans?"

I know I'll catch flack for this, but in a nutshell it's because we're "infidels" and not Muslims. True story.
The theologian is right, you know. I think the millenium-long survival of the Yazidi sect at a stone's throw from Baghdad, the presence of Zoroastrians in Iran, that of Hindus in India, the welcoming of the Muslim conquest by the Coptic Church after centuries of its persecution at the hands of Byzantines, as well as the religious mosaic inside the Emirate of Cordoba - all go to show that we are to expect the worse from all Muslims. Beware! They all want to eat our babies.

Perhaps they see us as arrogant infidels who try to tell them what to do. That we bomb and kill their citizens (collateral damage of course) trying to acheive our own agendas in their nations.

That may be part of it.

"Why do Arabs hate Americans?"

I know I'll catch flack for this, but in a nutshell it's because we're "infidels" and not Muslims. True story.

I've got a Muslim friend. When I told him that I'm an atheist, he said that everyone has their own beliefs and we have not spoken about religion since. And he's not my only Muslim friend. As far as I can tell, no one hates me because I'm an "infidel" except a white, conservative Christian kid in my chemistry class who hates me because I'm a democrat. Thus, I disagree with your statement.

If you were watching the Daily Show you would have noticed that they then went on to sample just some of the Arab-hate Americans indulge in

I think you're confusing Fox News with the Daily Show.

Arabs hate Americans? are you sure about that assumption?

Well let's see...terrorism, religious war in Iraq, violence-inciting protests, movies that depict Americans negatively making huge box-office hits...yep, most of them hate us.

Why do Arabs hate America?

Because Americans make topics like "Why do Arabs hatr America?"

Because Americans make topics like "Why do Arabs hatr America?"

I'm sorry, were you trying to be funny?

I suggest everyone here, even people who aren't descriminatory against Arabs, to read the book Funny in Farsi by Firoozeh Dumas. It's a short read and pretty funny.

But yeah, as others have stated, not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs.

And it's pretty much only the Muslim extremists in that group who hates Americans.

And what people need to realize is that Americans descriminate quite a bit against other cultures in our media. So it would be idiotic to assume that other cultures wouldn't do the same to us. Gotta remember the golden rule, treat others as you would want to be treated. *Hears a bunch of groans* I know, I know, everyone has heard it a million times, but it's true.

I've got a Muslim friend. When I told him that I'm an atheist, he said that everyone has their own beliefs and we have not spoken about religion since. And he's not my only Muslim friend. As far as I can tell, no one hates me because I'm an "infidel" except a white, conservative Christian kid in my chemistry class who hates me because I'm a democrat. Thus, I disagree with your statement.
Well, that certainly qualifies as a representative sample, doesn't it. :rolleyes:

Because Americans make topics like "Why do Arabs hatr America?"
I know, typoes drive me to a blinding rage as well.

Well, that certainly qualifies as a representative sample, doesn't it. :rolleyes:

No less so than the rioters :)

Well, that certainly qualifies as a representative sample, doesn't it. :rolleyes:

I was referring to the Arab Muslims, not the ones here. By all accounts, Muslims in America don't hate America.

Well, that certainly qualifies as a representative sample, doesn't it. :rolleyes:
Did what I said qualify as a sample, Eutrusca? Or is that too uncomfortable to take into consideration?

Why do you support infanticide?

Why do you support infanticide?
WHAT?

WHAT?

The question asked by the original poster is a trap, a question that assumes certain premises and compels the answerer to assume them as well.

Like, "why do you support infanticide?", "why do you hate America?", "when did you stop beating your wife?", etc.

The question asked by the original poster is a trap, a question that assumes certain premises and compels the answerer to assume them as well.

Like, "why do you support infanticide?", "why do you hate America?", "when did you stop beating your wife?", etc.

When did you start obsessing over these questions?

I can ask the same question with the nationalities reversed. Granted, its only the extremist minority on both ends. Fanatics like Al-queida, and some propagandaists whom I won't mention in America.

Why do you support infanticide?

Go make your own thread about abortion. THIS thread is about why Arabs hate Americans.

And they hate americans because of one thing- religion. Islam has a disproportionatly high number of extremists. So many, that I don't like to use the word extremist. Because extreme implys that there are not many and that they are a fringe group that has no support from the mainstream. Neither of which is true.

It is true that most Muslims are not Arabs. But we're not talking about them.
It is true that not all Arabs are Muslim. But most are.

And Arab Muslims as a whole are very intolerant of other religions. Hell, even Sunni Muslims and Shi'a Muslims love to kill each other. They think it is ok to have "death squads" hunting down one another. Their religion tells them that killing innocent people of a different religion will get them into heaven. They take hating jews to a whole new level. Hitler would be proud of them.

Also, they have the concept of "holy land". A bunch of worthless deserts are considered sacred, for one reason or another.

Nation of Quebec']I can ask the same question with the nationalities reversed. Granted, its only the extremist minority on both ends. Fanatics like Al-queida, and some propagandaists whom I won't mention in America.

I disagree. I don't know of anyone, including Fox News, who says they hate Arabs or Muslims. Although since 9/11 the opinion of the everyday American is becoming a lot less tolerant.

However, in the Arab Muslim world, the VAST MAJORITY hate america. They have an entire news service dedicated to it. Saudi Arabia teaches it in schools. Numerous religious leaders advocate violence against americans/westerners/jews.

And they hate americans because of one thing- religion. Islam has a disproportionatly high number of extremists. So many, that I don't like to use the word extremist. Because extreme implys that there are not many and that they are a fringe group that has no support from the mainstream. Neither of which is true.

Yet another theologian.

It is true that most Muslims are not Arabs. But we're not talking about them.
It is true that not all Arabs are Muslim. But most are.

No. Not at all. Read a book. A very small number of them are. Do you even know what an Arab is?
And no, you WERE NOT talking about them, since the op was referring to Turkey. Can you even pinpoint Turkey on a map?

And Arab Muslims as a whole are very intolerant of other religions. Hell, even Sunni Muslims and Shi'a Muslims love to kill each other.

Sophistry.

They think it is ok to have "death squads" hunting down one another. Their religion tells them that killing innocent people of a different religion will get them into heaven. They take hating jews to a whole new level. Hitler would be proud of them.

1. Hitler came from our world.
2. Explain the survival of Jewish communities in the Arab world for milennia.

Also, they have the concept of "holy land". A bunch of worthless deserts are considered sacred, for one reason or another.

Isn't Israel sacred to the Jewish religion? Isn't Utah sacred to the Mormons? Wasn't Jerusalem sacred for Crusaders? And aren't all of these basically worthless deserts on the whole?

Stereotypes sell. Ask Mel Gibson why he hates the English.

No. Not at all. Read a book. A very small number of them are. Do you even know what an Arab is?
And no, you WERE NOT talking about them, since the op was referring to Turkey. Can you even pinpoint Turkey on a map?

Turkey is officially a part of the Middle East, so that means it's an Arabic country, read an atlas. Only a small number of Germans were Nazis, but they managed to take over because the most of the German population agreed with them on certain key points. If the majority didn't agree with them, they wouldn't have taken over. Same with radical muslims. If the majority of Arabs didn't hate the West, the insurgents in Iraq would have no base from which to operate and terrorists would have no place to hide.







Yet another theologian.



Isn't Israel sacred to the Jewish religion? Isn't Utah sacred to the Mormons? Wasn't Jerusalem sacred for Crusaders? And aren't all of these basically worthless deserts on the whole?

I concede to this point.

Turkey is officially a part of the Middle East, so that means it's an Arabic country, read an atlas.
No, it doesn't. Arabs are people who come from the Arabic peninsula, and perhaps a bit of the surrounding area. Egypt, Israel, and Iran are also part of the Middle East, and they're not Arabs.

Turkey is officially a part of the Middle East, so that means it's an Arabic country, read an atlas.

Yet another misconception: "Arab countries" and "Middle East" are not synonimous. Because, you see, Israel would have to be an Arab country as well.
The designation is used precisely to include non-Arab countries in a conglomerate with some Arab ones, usually on the basis of the Ottoman legacy. Going further, I have to point out that including Morocco into the "Middle East" because it is an Arab country would be bewildering, since Morocco is as west as Britain! Some do include it, but specify that the link is symbolic.
Arab country means one where Arabic is official, and the more subjective reason of Arab ethnicity. If we were to go into textbook racial criteria (of which I disapprove as a rule, but they are basic referrence in America etc), Turks are as far away as you could get from Arabs. From a language point of view, basic Turkish has more to do with Korean than Arabic.
This is what any atlas tells me. Nay, it is what my basic knowledge tells me.

Only a small number of Germans were Nazis, but they managed to take over because the most of the German population agreed with them on certain key points. If the majority didn't agree with them, they wouldn't have taken over. Same with radical muslims. If the majority of Arabs didn't hate the West, the insurgents in Iraq would have no base from which to operate and terrorists would have no place to hide.

And the point of this is?

If you consider that "Arabs" as a collection of nations have been repeatedly humiliated by the West since the Battle of Khartoum and the decline and dissolution of the Ottoman Empire - one military defeat after another - puppet governments put in place by colonial powers - meddling by Western intelligence services - the direct planting of what is essentially a Western nation into Israel and more humiliation - it's no wonder that the Arabs feel screwed.

On one hand, they all seem to believe that nothing happens unless God wills it. And yet they still want to fight against the constant humiliation.

Someday, one of their religious leaders is going to wake up and tell them that Allah has it in for them, and they should have to good manners to stop resisting God's will.

Go make your own thread about abortion. THIS thread is about why Arabs hate Americans.

I support reproductive freedom. "Infanticide" is just a helpful term because practically no one thinks it is morally acceptable, thus emphasizing the point I was making.

Cool! Specious questions that force people to assume a fake premise! Let me try my hand at those...

Why did the starter of this thread have sex with a zebra?
Why does the starter of this thread like to see fat middle-aged men in leather straps?
When did the starter of this thread stop describing intercourse to four-year-olds?
Why did the starter of this thread rape his mother?

And before any of you claims I'm flaming, I'll remind you that whoever started this idiotic thread was offending and spreading lies about more or less 180 million people.

So, Dubya, when did you stop ass-raping poodles?

Yet another theologian.

Do you mean to imply that religion is NOT the #1 reason for hate in the world? It passes race by quite a large margin.


No. Not at all. Read a book. A very small number of them are. Do you even know what an Arab is?

Who shit in your cereal?
Arab n 1: a member of a Semitic people originally from the Arabian peninsula and surrounding territories who speaks Arabic and who inhabits much of the Middle East and northern Africa.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=arab

90% of Arabs are Muslim. So YOU read a damn book.
http://www.batkhela.com/islam/

And no, you WERE NOT talking about them, since the op was referring to Turkey. Can you even pinpoint Turkey on a map?

The OP may have mentioned the Turkish movie, but the thread is titled "Why do Arabs hate Americans". And here's a nice map for you. Turkey may be mostly Turkish and Kurdish ethnically, but it is a Muslim nation.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tu.html

You need to check your attitude at the door. Or better yet, check your "facts", because they are in need of just as much work.

Sophistry.

How is my claim misleading? Do you not read news?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-death29nov29,0,3364549,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Cool! Specious questions that force people to assume a fake premise! Let me try my hand at those...

Why did the starter of this thread have sex with a zebra?
Why does the starter of this thread like to see fat middle-aged men in leather straps?
When did the starter of this thread stop describing intercourse to four-year-olds?
Why did the starter of this thread rape his mother?

And before any of you claims I'm flaming, I'll remind you that whoever started this idiotic thread was offending and spreading lies about more or less one billion people.

So, Dubya, when did you stop ass-raping poodles?


Minor point - there aren't one billion Arabs.

And the point of this is?

The point is that if only a minority were extremists, or only a minority supported the extremists, there would hardly be any of the shit that's going down right now. I can only conclude that most Middle East muslims don't like the US very much.

Minor point - there aren't one billion Arabs.

Yes, well, I'm counting the ones that lived and died before this time... :)

Okay, so sue me, I was mistaken but the main point remains.

Minor point - there aren't one billion Arabs.
True.
There are approx 1 billion Muslims.
Approx. 200 million Arabs. 90% of which are Muslim.
http://www.batkhela.com/islam/

True.
There are approx 1 billion Muslims.
Approx. 200 million Arabs. 90% of which are Muslim.
http://www.batkhela.com/islam/

Okay, fixed.

Yes, well, I'm counting the ones that lived and died before this time... :)

Okay, so sue me, I was mistaken but the main point remains.

My point was that they had plenty of reasons to be pissed off (just the Arabs).

If you consider that "Arabs" as a collection of nations have been repeatedly humiliated by the West since the Battle of Khartoum and the decline and dissolution of the Ottoman Empire - one military defeat after another - puppet governments put in place by colonial powers - meddling by Western intelligence services - the direct planting of what is essentially a Western nation into Israel and more humiliation - it's no wonder that the Arabs feel screwed.

On one hand, they all seem to believe that nothing happens unless God wills it. And yet they still want to fight against the constant humiliation.

Someday, one of their religious leaders is going to wake up and tell them that Allah has it in for them, and they should have to good manners to stop resisting God's will.

My point was that they had plenty of reasons to be pissed off (just the Arabs).

If you consider that "Arabs" as a collection of nations have been repeatedly humiliated by the West since the Battle of Khartoum and the decline and dissolution of the Ottoman Empire - one military defeat after another - puppet governments put in place by colonial powers - meddling by Western intelligence services - the direct planting of what is essentially a Western nation into Israel and more humiliation - it's no wonder that the Arabs feel screwed.

On one hand, they all seem to believe that nothing happens unless God wills it. And yet they still want to fight against the constant humiliation.

Someday, one of their religious leaders is going to wake up and tell them that Allah has it in for them, and they should have to good manners to stop resisting God's will.

Wait, are you being ironic or you're actually saying they have the "wrong" religion (as if a "wrong" religion exists, as opposed to wrong interpretations of SEVERAL religions)?

Cool! Specious questions that force people to assume a fake premise! Let me try my hand at those...

Why did the starter of this thread have sex with a zebra?
Why does the starter of this thread like to see fat middle-aged men in leather straps?
When did the starter of this thread stop describing intercourse to four-year-olds?
Why did the starter of this thread rape his mother?

And before any of you claims I'm flaming, I'll remind you that whoever started this idiotic thread was offending and spreading lies about more or less one billion people.

So, Dubya, when did you stop ass-raping poodles?

Based on what I see and read on the news, I come to the conclusion that Arab Muslims don't like the US. How else do you explain the burning of American flags at protests? Or a top-grossing movie in an Arab country that negatively depicts American soldiers?

Perhaps if I changed the name of this thread to "Do Arabs hate Americans" you would be satisfied?

Wait, are you being ironic or you're actually saying they have the "wrong" religion (as if a "wrong" religion exists, as opposed to wrong interpretations of SEVERAL religions)?

No one on this forum seems to recognize irony or sarcasm except Fiddlebottoms.

Ok, first of all. This is coming from a 14 year old arab who's mother works for the U.S. Department Of Defence. Arabs, in general, do not hate americans. If you walk down the street in an arab city and ask people if they hate america, 80% of them will say that they do not. Just because a couple of orginisations use islam as an excuse for their psycological issues does not mean that it is a hatefull religion.

Do all christian Germans hate Jews?
Do all Hispanic people work as gardeners?
Are all African Americans in gangs?


Are all arabs terrorists?

Based on what I see and read on the news, I come to the conclusion that Arab Muslims don't like the US. How else do you explain the burning of American flags at protests? Or a top-grossing movie in an Arab country that negatively depicts American soldiers?

Perhaps if I changed the name of this thread to "Do Arabs hate Americans" you would be satisfied?

Do you see 200 million people burning flags, making movies, etc? Because I can also watch statements by Pat Robertson and ask "Why do Americans want to murder elected foreign leaders" as well. If you changed the name of this thread my questions would become "Did you have sex with a zebra?" and so on. Why? Because the proposition that all Arabs hate the US is just as absurd, wether as a "why" or as a "do" question.

Do all christian Germans hate Jews?
Do all Hispanic people work as gardeners?
Are all African Americans in gangs?


Are all arabs terrorists?

No, but enough of them are to be a real pain in the ass.

And their religion is one of the only ones that establishes imperialism as a central tenet of their religion. Of course, various political systems do as well.

My argument is that they have plenty to be pissed about with the West in general.

No one on this forum seems to recognize irony or sarcasm except Fiddlebottoms.
Many NSers seem to suffer from an irony deficiency.
I'm sorry, that was very bastardly of me, and IDA better not go on.

Ah, another religio-racist post. Fun fun fun.

If the Internet had existed back in the early 20th Century, this would be "Why do Germans hate Americans?" or "Why do Japanese hate Americans?" Hell, it would have been Flavor of the Day throughout the 20th Century.

"Why do Vietnamese hate Americans?"
"Why do Cubans hate Americans?"
"Why do Russians hate Americans?"

So on and so forth.

:rolleyes:

The question you should be asking Is Why does america want to take over the world?

The question you should be asking Is Why does america want to take over the world?
Because several major European nations in history have had a turn, and now it's our turn.

Because several major European nations in history have had a turn, and now it's our turn.

In other words Spreading Democracy and Freedom is just pure bullshit.

In other words Spreading Democracy and Freedom is just pure bullshit.
So were the excuses given by the former European colonialist powers.

And?

Do you mean to imply that religion is NOT the #1 reason for hate in the world? It passes race by quite a large margin.

Oh, sure it may be. And even because of that, I mean to ask you: how much knowledge do you have of Islamic theology? Cause you sure can produce ample statements on it...
In other words, I was addressing your expertise, not your beliefs. Those I have dismissed from your first post, because they display the same binary framework popular with professional wrestlers.

Who shit in your cereal?
Arab n 1: a member of a Semitic people originally from the Arabian peninsula and surrounding territories who speaks Arabic and who inhabits much of the Middle East and northern Africa.
90% of Arabs are Muslim. So YOU read a damn book.

You don't even get it, do you? Open that book again and tell me HOW MANY MUSLIMS ARE ARAB - since that was the logical point to be made.

The OP may have mentioned the Turkish movie, but the thread is titled "Why do Arabs hate Americans".

Oh, good point. Kinda like: "An American cannot distinguish between two words in the English language. Why don't the British speak American English?". This kind of tight association of concepts? It contains a statement corruption observed by a previous poster.

And here's a nice map for you. Turkey may be mostly Turkish and Kurdish ethnically, but it is a Muslim nation.

Look honey: where I live, it takes me eight hours to get to Turkey. I am posting this from Bucharest, Romania. Believe me, I don't need to see a map.

You need to check your attitude at the door. Or better yet, check your "facts", because they are in need of just as much work.

How is my claim misleading? Do you not read news?

If Islam contains several, extremely opposed, attitudes towards a thing, and they all seem to lead to the same characteristic, then that characteristic cannot be considered Islam's fault. Because Islam no longer has a unitary character! Or, if it does, it has got to be beyond that (because it would mean that both were, let's say, allowed to disagree by the unique truth - which means that that unique truth is not proprly understood by neither).
Also, let me assure you that you have but the simplest perspective on this.

Many NSers seem to suffer from an irony deficiency.

Although some people say that you can just take a pill, or eat more red meat to get your necessary daily dosage of irony, there is a medical procedure that is universally effective. Here are the simple steps to take to ensre that you get your necessary irony. It will help you live longer!

1. Log onto NS General.
2. Take a sip of your favorite beverage.
3. Read a post by Lunatic Goofballs.
4. The bodies natural reaction will be to spit your beverage out through your nose. This porcess allows the irony to be absorbed into the mucus membranes and sinus cavities.

Following the advice herein does in no way make ACNAT or LG liable for any wasted beverage product or damage to computer equipment. Certain medications may interefere with the aborption of irony. Always consult your doctor. People who generally snort coke three or more times per day are advised to stop putting so much shit up their nose.

Let's see..............The West gave away their best land because Germany Killed a bunch of ancestoral residents.

American companies exploit their main natural resource and take most of the profit.

Americans regularly attack their religion and infer that they are heathens.

Americans provide most of their foreign aid to the only first world economy in the area, while letting the original residents starve.

America is now engaged in neo-colonialism.

America supported the worst of dictators as long as it served the economic and political interests of America

America rejects the democratically elected government if it is not the one America wants.

America allows any type of arms to enemies but denys them to Muslim countries.

America denys economic aid which would end poverty.


It could go on but I'm only going to give it 5 minutes.

So were the excuses given by the former European colonialist powers.

And?

And predictably you fellate Your Hero Bush once again with the "They Did It First" excuse. Gee, we expect Muslims to catch up with modern values but the United States has a permission slip to play Manifest Destiny Part Deux.

:rolleyes:

And predictably you fellate Your Hero Bush once again with the "They Did It First" excuse. Gee, we expect Muslims to catch up with modern values but the United States has a permission slip to play Manifest Destiny Part Deux.

:rolleyes:

High five, Gauthier.

And predictably you fellate Your Hero Bush once again with the "They Did It First" excuse. Gee, we expect Muslims to catch up with modern values but the United States has a permission slip to play Manifest Destiny Part Deux.

:rolleyes:
Hey, it's us or them. Islam is officially a religion with a mandate from Allah to engage in religious imperialism.

Can't make it any simpler for us.

Truth is, if they had the weapons the West has, we would be the ones driving truck bombs and killing helpless women on TV.

Witness what Iran will do with its nuclear weapons once it gets a few.

Oh, and I'm not taking Bush's word they have nukes. I am taking the word of the French government this time, so you can stop with the Bush jokes.

I hate Arabs. They should be exterminated every Arab sole living alive now. When I come into power in America I will take control of the Middle East and make secret concentration camps. There I will gas them all. ALL OF THEM. DOWN WITH THE ARAB RACE! ONCE THE ARABS ARE GONE! LET THE EUROPEANS OCCUPY THE MIDDLE EAST!

will you be in power before or after i am?

at least you will get the european support

Let's see..............The West gave away their best land because Germany Killed a bunch of ancestoral residents.
That's funny. When did the Germans start killing Egyptians and Saudis?
All I ever heard about were the Jews, and they got a miserable little strip of desert surrounded by people who hated them.
American companies exploit their main natural resource and take most of the profit.
And the fact that OPEC basically sets the prices it wants factors into this how?
Americans regularly attack their religion and infer that they are heathens.
It wasn't cool to hate Islam until after Arabs started hating on Americans.
Americans provide most of their foreign aid to the only first world economy in the area, while letting the original residents starve.
This is indeed a problem. We shouldn't be sending aid out there at all, American tax money should be used for American interests, not feeding "damn foriegners."
America is now engaged in neo-colonialism.
No. If Americans were in the habit of neo-colonialism, Afghanistan wouldn't have been the first target, and Iraw wouldn't be a gaping hole into which American blood and treasure flow.
America allows any type of arms to enemies but denys them to Muslim countries.
That's funny, because I rather thought we were just accused of funding evil dictators in Muslim countries. How do we both deprive them of weapons and prop them up when our interests are suited?
America denys economic aid which would end poverty.
You've already said this, in a slightly different form, but:

Since when is it America's job to end global poverty? It is largely the fault of European powers, when it isn't simply caused by the locals fucking themselves over.
Wouldn't funding them count as neo-colonialism, since apparently neo-colonialism is like regular colonialism, except you exploit your home countries to aid foriegn ones

Hey, it's us or them. Islam is officially a religion with a mandate from Allah to engage in religious imperialism.

And that's how different from Christianity in the past (Holy Roman Empire, etc) and today (Christian Identity)?

Can't make it any simpler for us.

Yeah, I forgot you can't wait to cream your pants again killing Muslim men, women and children at the concentration camps. This is just a nice rationalization on your part,

Truth is, if they had the weapons the West has, we would be the ones driving truck bombs and killing helpless women on TV.

And "we" wouldn't have any less insane fanatics driving them into the civilian population. Was this supposed to say "It's better that we have the superior firepower rather than them"?

Witness what Iran will do with its nuclear weapons once it gets a few.

2000 was supposed to be the end of civilization when every computer crashed all over the world too. You're also assuming that the regime in Iran lacks a self-preservation instinct common to all power. Or that Israel won't nuke them first whether or not they have an actual program.

Oh, and I'm not taking Bush's word they have nukes. I am taking the word of the French government this time, so you can stop with the Bush jokes.

Yeah, now that the French say something that makes you cream in your pants you suddenly use them as justification. I guess making Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey jokes got stale for you huh?

:rolleyes:

That's funny. When did the Germans start killing Egyptians and Saudis?
All I ever heard about were the Jews, and they got a miserable little strip of desert surrounded by people who hated them.

And the fact that OPEC basically sets the prices it wants factors into this how?

It wasn't cool to hate Islam until after Arabs started hating on Americans.

This is indeed a problem. We shouldn't be sending aid out there at all, American tax money should be used for American interests, not feeding "damn foriegners."

No. If Americans were in the habit of neo-colonialism, Afghanistan wouldn't have been the first target, and Iraw wouldn't be a gaping hole into which American blood and treasure flow.

That's funny, because I rather thought we were just accused of funding evil dictators in Muslim countries. How do we both deprive them of weapons and prop them up when our interests are suited?

You've already said this, in a slightly different form, but:

Since when is it America's job to end global poverty? It is largely the fault of European powers, when it isn't simply caused by the locals fucking themselves over.
Wouldn't funding them count as neo-colonialism, since apparently neo-colonialism is like regular colonialism, except you exploit your home countries to aid foriegn ones


wow
i agree.
there is someone on NS i agree with

Nah, the question you should be asking is why does America hate the Arabs...

And anyway, it's easy to hate the Americans: Bush, continuous winning of the Olymic medals (but not in women's snowboard cross...hahahahahahahha Switzerland owned your arse...*cough* sorry...), very loud, obnoxious American tourists, Britney Spears, Bush, Condi Rice, coke, high drinking age...yeah, most of these aren't very serious, but, you know, lots of nations hate the US. Just FYI. But I'm sure you knew.

And it's not really the AMERICANS they hate, it's the politics. Why can't we all just get along? :D :D :D :D :D :D

Snogging is more fun than shooting things anyway...:mp5: vs. :fluffle:

Let's see..............The West gave away their best land because Germany Killed a bunch of ancestoral residents.

I guess it doesn't help that Judaism has been around longer than Islam?
Also, the Jewish people have been around longer than the Palestinians who want the land as well. Feel free to correct me, but if I remember correctly, the Palestinians were originally an Arab-Greek mix, no?

America rejects the democratically elected government if it is not the one America wants.
I'm assuming this is directed at the recent political victories by Hamas in Israel? Perhaps even the current administrationin Iran? I feel good knowing that my country refuses to support governments that have made open threats against the existence of an allied nation, and have a history of attacking civilians.

America allows any type of arms to enemies but denys them to Muslim countries.
I'd like to know who these "enemies" are. Are the enemies of the United States or enemies of "Muslim countries"? Then I might be able to come up with an answer.

America denys economic aid which would end poverty.
Contrary to popular belief, simply throwing money at problems does not make them disappear. Perhaps if the leaders of poverty stricken nations would concentrate on creating infrastructures the money might actually be worth spending.

I'll be honest now, correct my facts if I'm wrong. I'd hate to go on thinking things are true when they aren't.

very loud, obnoxious American tourist.


just so you know tourist in general suck, it doesnt matter where they come from. but what really sucks is the permanent tourist (aka illegal immigrants)

you'd hate people too if you always had sand in your ass-crack. :D

and now that i've made my obligatory racially insensitive comment for the day, i'll be on my way...

To be honest, America as a whole is hated pretty much everywhere. On the actions of a small number of people, we will go into a country and enforce our ways over them.

And the biggest misperception I see overall is that most think that arab=muslim=terrorist. Islam is a peaceful religion, with only a few minor differences from christianity and judaism. Mainly the difference is who set up the religion.

And we tend to be viewed as baby killers. Vietnam anyone?

I guess it doesn't help that Judaism has been around longer than Islam?
Also, the Jewish people have been around longer than the Palestinians who want the land as well. Feel free to correct me, but if I remember correctly, the Palestinians were originally an Arab-Greek mix, no?

This is indeed a surreal assesment.
Does all land in Europe belong to Wiccans?
Where have the Jewish people been "around"? The Romans and Byzantines contributed to their expelling. Fact is that no law was backing such a claim by 1948, and no law does it today.

This is not to say that I am anti-Zionist or pro-Hamas. Fact is that the alyahs were revolutionary acts, and backed by military deployments. That is the true origin of it. The Jewish state should continue exist, but it is not on the basis of divine right. It is because it is. Anyone who does not accept it today has a mental problem. However, nothing of this should entitle it to the blank check it thinks it has and has used since.

And that's how different from Christianity in the past (Holy Roman Empire, etc) and today (Christian Identity)?

According to the Bible I've grown up with, I'm supposed to "love my neighbor" and such. Maybe I'm wrong but one of our tenants is "Thou shalt not murder".

Here are some quotes from the Qur'an. (these and more at http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes1.html)

Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

These two in particular strike me as... not-peaceful:
Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”


I don't seem to recall Jesus telling anyone to go out and slay non-believers and apostates, but I also haven't read my entire Bible cover to cover. I even recall him preaching to the nonbelievers about love and such.

i agree with most of what you said, although a solid infrastructure is worthless when all the money the goverment makes is used to pay off previous debts.
The best way to go about it is to forgive their debt, help them set up a self sustaining system then from there if they need a little financial help, loan them the money

-snip-
You do a little reading of the Old Testament.

To be honest, America as a whole is hated pretty much everywhere. On the actions of a small number of people, we will go into a country and enforce our ways over them.

And the biggest misperception I see overall is that most think that arab=muslim=terrorist. Islam is a peaceful religion, with only a few minor differences from christianity and judaism. Mainly the difference is who set up the religion.

And we tend to be viewed as baby killers. Vietnam anyone?
personally, i consider the current-day middle-east islamic sociopolitical situation somewhat analagous to the medieval christian sociopolitical situation... a rough, embarrassing spot that future members of that religion would just as soon sweep under the rug :rolleyes:

Oh, sure it may be. And even because of that, I mean to ask you: how much knowledge do you have of Islamic theology? Cause you sure can produce ample statements on it...
In other words, I was addressing your expertise, not your beliefs. Those I have dismissed from your first post, because they display the same binary framework popular with professional wrestlers.

You certainly assume a lot. And erroneously I might add. I have studied religion and philosophy extensively. What do you want to do, quiz me on the five pillars? Or maybe we can talk about Ayesha? You know, the 6 year old Mohammed married, and slept with when she was 9 and he was 54?

You seem to think that just because a small majority of Muslims are peaceful that makes up for the large minority who interpret the Koran differently. Christians historically have been no better, but in the present day, Islam is much more intolerant.

You don't even get it, do you? Open that book again and tell me HOW MANY MUSLIMS ARE ARAB - since that was the logical point to be made.

Sorry, you're not getting out of this one. You were wrong, and now you want to misrepresent the discussion to make me look ignorant. When you are the one who was in error. So, just to reiterate-
There are approx 1 billion muslims in the world.
There are approx 200 million arabs.
90% of arabs are muslim. (my point)
Which makes arabs about 20% of the muslim world. (the point you make to neo-cons)

Try following a link before you get on your soap box.

Look honey: where I live, it takes me eight hours to get to Turkey. I am posting this from Bucharest, Romania. Believe me, I don't need to see a map.

Well, you doubted that I knew where Turkey is, so I just felt I would show you. You are not dealing with an uneducated Dubya apologist. Although I am sure you see enough of them around. But if you keep trying to act as though you are speaking to moron I will spoonfeed you cynicism and spit facts at you while you keep up with the Al Jazeera propoganda.

Also, let me assure you that you have but the simplest perspective on this.

Really? :rolleyes:
You are used to shutting up a few Neo-con trolls. I have a masters in history, and an undergrad minor in religion and philosophy. I have studied the Arab-Israeli conflict from a historical and religious perspective. I have done comparative studies on Sunni and Shi'a Islam, as well as various Christian and Jewish sects. If you think that religion is not the heart of the conflict, YOU are the one with the simple perspective.

According to the Bible I've grown up with, I'm supposed to "love my neighbor" and such. Maybe I'm wrong but one of our tenants is "Thou shalt not murder".

Here's some quotes from the Qur'an. (these and more at http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes1.html)

Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

This one in particular is pretty incriminating:
Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

I don't seem to recall Jesus telling anyone to go out and slay non-believers and apostates, but I also haven't read my entire Bible cover to cover. I even recall him preaching to the nonbelievers about love and such.

ahh look another christian beleiving he is richeous, seems you forgot about all the parts about the crusades and condoning slavery.

According to the Bible I've grown up with, I'm supposed to "love my neighbor" and such. Maybe I'm wrong but one of our tenants is "Thou shalt not murder".

Here are some quotes from the Qur'an. (these and more at http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes1.html)

Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

These two in particular strike me as... not-peaceful:
Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”


I don't seem to recall Jesus telling anyone to go out and slay non-believers and apostates, but I also haven't read my entire Bible cover to cover. I even recall him preaching to the nonbelievers about love and such.


i don't have any particular verses with me right now, but there are some Bible quotes (particularly from the Old Testiment) that, taking soley by themselves without background history or context, seem VERY counter to the "love thy neighbor" mentality.

and one or two about masturbating (to show how bizzare things can seem out of context)

Maybe this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469425) is why...

ahh look another christian beleiving he is richeous, seems you forgot about all the parts about the crusades and condoning slavery.

I have made no claim to being 'righteous'. I would also like to point out that there is a difference between what people say God wants and what the book containing the supposed "word of God" says we should do.

I'd also like mention that the majority of Christians I deal with, especially leaders within my church, view those events and periods with disgrace, but I have yet to hide behind "But... the Pope said to do it!"
Although... there is the one kid who's really out there. He said that the Broadway turned Cinema production Rent was evil. I shunned him from that point forward. Entertainment's entertainment. He seems to have forgotten that secular activities are all evil.

I also cannot stand the thought of people condoning slavery. How does anyone condone it, Christian, Jewish (religion), Muslim, Atheist, or Deist?

According to the Bible I've grown up with, I'm supposed to "love my neighbor" and such. Maybe I'm wrong but one of our tenants is "Thou shalt not murder".

Here's some quotes from the Qur'an. (these and more at http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes1.html)

Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

These two in particular strike me as... not-peaceful:
Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”


I don't seem to recall Jesus telling anyone to go out and slay non-believers and apostates, but I also haven't read my entire Bible cover to cover. I even recall him preaching to the nonbelievers about love and such.

Here's a few Biblical passages that aren't any less peaceful than all those Quran lines every Islamaphobe loves to quote when they can be bothered to look them up:

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

"This day the LORD will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you down, and cut off your head ... that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel."

I will give the dead bodies of the host of the Philistines this day to the birds of the air and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.

"Utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling baby."

I would also like to point out that there is a difference between what people say God wants and what the book containing the supposed "word of God" says we should do.

so the Qu'ran says it, its bad,
the bible says, it its not the true word of god?
i see a bit of bias

I have made no claim to being 'righteous'. I would also like to point out that there is a difference between what people say God wants and what the book containing the supposed "word of God" says we should do.

I'd also like mention that the majority of Christians I deal with, especially leaders within my church, view those events and periods with disgrace, but I have yet to hide behind "But... the Pope said to do it!"
Although... there is the one kid who's really out there. He said that the Broadway turned Cinema production Rent was evil. I shunned him from that point forward. Entertainment's entertainment. He seems to have forgotten that secular activities are all evil.

I also cannot stand the thought of people condoning slavery. How does anyone condone it, Christian, Jewish (religion), Muslim, Atheist, or Deist?
i still hold that this is a modern-day islamic equivelant of the christian crusades "whoopsie"

oh, and i believe there's some verses (in the New Testiment, even!) about how a slave should serve their master faithfully...

I was watching the Daily Show today, and they reported about a movie, made in Turkey, that portrays Americans as children-killers, among other things. This movie made more $ on its opening day than any other movie in Turkey. This got me into wondering why exactly the Arabs hate us with such ferocity. Iraq and our support of Israel have a lot to do with it, of course, but even before the Iraq invasion they weren't exactly our biggest fans. So, can anyone please adequately explain exactly why they hate us?

Have you seen season 4 of 24? Where the bad guys are from Turkey (they are very careful never to mention that they are Islamic fundamentalists)? What goes around comes around.

Really? :rolleyes:
You are used to shutting up a few Neo-con trolls. I have a masters in history, and an undergrad minor in religion and philosophy. I have studied the Arab-Israeli conflict from a historical and religious perspective. I have done comparative studies on Sunni and Shi'a Islam, as well as various Christian and Jewish sects. If you think that religion is not the heart of the conflict, YOU are the one with the simple perspective.

Again, I did not say that religion isn't at the heart of the conflict. And a major contribution to that was that an actor in the conflict brought religious identity as the basis for demanding and obtaining land (and no, I do not deny Israel's right to exist). Tell me if it is not true that all favored identities of Arabs -except for Wahabbi- weren't secular at the time. The Western World was fearing the socialist Arab back then, wasn't it? Even the Muslim Brotherhood was initially more nationalist than religious (its identification with religion was as practical as Kemal's). Secularism was an indirect contribution of Ottoman ideology - and we all know that, no matter how much Islam split during WWI, no wing was opposed to modernity (not even ibn Saud).
Even religious conflicts are better explained through the impact of border-carving out of the Ottoman legacy. And a recent parallel (which should also account for Christianity "having used to be the same"): Bosnia. Origin in the same border-carving, same legacy.
Religion is at the heart of the conflict inside large portions of the Islamic world because choices have become limited.

so the Qu'ran says it, its bad,
the bible says, it its not the true word of god?
i see a bit of bias

I'm saying there is a difference between the Pope saying "We ought to kill Muslims because of (insert reason)" and Jesus telling me to cast a stone only if I haven't sinned.

I don't put much faith in modern all-powerful leaders, either religious or secular.

EDIT: I apologize, and wish I could stay longer, but I have to be up early for work tomorrow morning.

I only wish I was more intelligent, then I might actually stand a chance in this forum.

I'm saying there is a difference between the Pope saying "We ought to kill Muslims because of (insert reason)" and Jesus telling me to cast a stone only if I haven't sinned.

I don't put much faith in modern all-powerful leaders, either religious or secular.

EDIT: I apologize, and wish I could stay longer, but I have to be up early for work tomorrow morning.

I only wish I was more intelligent, then I might actually stand a chance in this forum.
But the Bible tells you, not the Pope.

But the Bible tells you, not the Pope.
well, according to Catholics, the Pope has the power of Heaven... i mean, the chruch got rid of an entire portion of the cosmos (limbo) quite recently... sounds like that'd be nearly as authoritative as the Bible :rolleyes:

Based on what I see and read on the news, I come to the conclusion that Arab Muslims don't like the US. How else do you explain the burning of American flags at protests? Or a top-grossing movie in an Arab country that negatively depicts American soldiers?

Since America has no movies that negatively depict other countries and their people/soldiers. :)

I was watching the Daily Show today, and they reported about a movie, made in Turkey, that portrays Americans as children-killers, among other things. This movie made more $ on its opening day than any other movie in Turkey. This got me into wondering why exactly the Arabs hate us with such ferocity. Iraq and our support of Israel have a lot to do with it, of course, but even before the Iraq invasion they weren't exactly our biggest fans. So, can anyone please adequately explain exactly why they hate us?

I can tell you Arabs are not the only ones who hate USA (not America, America is a continent)

At least here in Argentina, most of the people hate USA (incluiding me)

well, according to Catholics, the Pope has the power of Heaven... i mean, the chruch got rid of an entire portion of the cosmos (limbo) quite recently... sounds like that'd be nearly as authoritative as the Bible :rolleyes:
That is beside the point. I was making reference to the Bible passages quoted above.

That is beside the point. I was making reference to the Bible passages quoted above.
well, A) there are Biblical passages condoning war and wholesale slaughter of entire peoples, and B) don't mind my limbo-post too mcuh; i was more taking a cheap jab at Catholicism than anything else ;)

A) there are Biblical passages condoning war and wholesale slaughter of entire peoples

That was my point. See previous posts.

B) don't mind my limbo-post too mcuh; i was more taking a cheap jab at Catholicism than anything else ;)

I'm not Catholic. I respect Catholicism most out of all Christianity, but I cannot say your comment affected me or beliefs I would have.

well y'all, it's been an envigorating experience, but i'm off now to a party... luck and levels :)

Because our women are hotter. Except the fat ones, but no one cares about them.

I guess it doesn't help that Judaism has been around longer than Islam?
Also, the Jewish people have been around longer than the Palestinians who want the land as well. Feel free to correct me, but if I remember correctly, the Palestinians were originally an Arab-Greek mix, no? If the ctiteria is who was there first, then the whole of the new world should be turned over to the Native Americans. The whole of Europe should be turned over to the Scotch, Irish, and Welch as the Celts were there first.


I'm assuming this is directed at the recent political victories by Hamas in Israel? Perhaps even the current administrationin Iran? I feel good knowing that my country refuses to support governments that have made open threats against the existence of an allied nation, and have a history of attacking civilians. Do you believe in democracy or don't you? If most of the world had their vote GW wouldn't be pres. right now. He would be up on charges of breaking international law. (Pays to rule a big country instead of a small one)


I'd like to know who these "enemies" are. Are the enemies of the United States or enemies of "Muslim countries"? Then I might be able to come up with an answer. Who in the Mid East is allowed to have "WMD's" and who is threatened for wanting them?


Contrary to popular belief, simply throwing money at problems does not make them disappear. Perhaps if the leaders of poverty stricken nations would concentrate on creating infrastructures the money might actually be worth spending. Shimon Peres in his book "The New Middle East" suggests that the way to peace is through love and not war. (You would think he was a Christian, except Christians are the ones offering hate in this thread) He offers as a solution starting in Gaza and building roads, water, sewer, electrical, schools, a desalinization plant and a port. Then offer low interest loans to people wanting to start businesses. A model England used in Hong Kong. And like Hong Kong, in a few years there would be less reason to fight. Hungry people and people without hope fight more than those that can see a better future.

Cost? The whole program would be about 10% of what the US was spending for tools of war in the Mid-East before 9/11.

After Gaza, he envisioned the West Bank.

Then a high speed rail across N Africa to India and possibly East Asia, and another from Europe to Mecca. Then a channel from the Red Sea to the Dead Sea. As the water dropped into the Dead Sea it could be used to generate electrical which could be used for desalinization. Irrigation of the desert.

The list of ideas goes on. But we have to think of Love and not Hate.

If the ctiteria is who was there first, then the whole of the new world should be turned over to the Native Americans. The whole of Europe should be turned over to the Scotch, Irish, and Welch as the Celts were there first.
You still have responded as to why that miserable peice of desert is the prime real-estate in the mid-east. It doesn't have a hugle fertile river running through it, it doesn't have massiv oil reserves, and it doesn't have gold mines. The fact is, the place is a shit-hole that no one in their right mind would want to live in, but the Jews seem to like, and so the Palestinians have decided that they must have it.
Do you believe in democracy or don't you? If most of the world had their vote GW wouldn't be pres. right now. He would be up on charges of breaking international law. (Pays to rule a big country instead of a small one)
You're right, and the invasions and assassination campaigns that were unleased on Iran and Hamas were horrible things that I fe-
The fact is, the US is reacting to Hamas no differently then the world reacts to Bush, and Americans haven't started trying to blow up the rest of the world.
Who in the Mid East is allowed to have "WMD's" and who is threatened for wanting them?
Sadam and the Saudi Royal family are such big Jews.
Shimon Peres in his book "The New Middle East" suggests that the way to peace is through love and not war. (You would think he was a Christian, except Christians are the ones offering hate in this thread) He offers as a solution starting in Gaza and building roads, water, sewer, electrical, schools, a desalinization plant and a port. Then offer low interest loans to people wanting to start businesses. A model England used in Hong Kong. And like Hong Kong, in a few years there would be less reason to fight. Hungry people and people without hope fight more than those that can see a better future.
Or perhaps England could do it again for the Middle East, they are the ones who fucked up the area in the first place.
The Middle East was never the US's backyard, and wasn't even an interest of the people until after the fighting started. Europe should be the one to take a dump on their citizenry so they can start fixing what their colonialism started.
I'm not sure when the US became known as the Janitor of the world, but I am rather tired of my countrymen dying and my taxes being squandered to clean up other people's shit.

You still have responded as to why that miserable peice of desert is the prime real-estate in the mid-east. It doesn't have a hugle fertile river running through it, it doesn't have massiv oil reserves, and it doesn't have gold mines. The fact is, the place is a shit-hole that no one in their right mind would want to live in, but the Jews seem to like, and so the Palestinians have decided that they must have it.

You're right, and the invasions and assassination campaigns that were unleased on Iran and Hamas were horrible things that I fe-
The fact is, the US is reacting to Hamas no differently then the world reacts to Bush, and Americans haven't started trying to blow up the rest of the world.

Sadam and the Saudi Royal family are such big Jews.

Or perhaps England could do it again for the Middle East, they are the ones who fucked up the area in the first place.
The Middle East was never the US's backyard, and wasn't even an interest of the people until after the fighting started. Europe should be the one to take a dump on their citizenry so they can start fixing what their colonialism started.
I'm not sure when the US became known as the Janitor of the world, but I am rather tired of my countrymen dying and my taxes being squandered to clean up other people's shit.

Ah-ha!

So now I know the truth, Fiddles.

Viva America. ;)

It's not just Arab nations that dislike America.
Don't get me wrong here, I have many good American friends but......well, take a look through any thread on these boards.
I also have a good many Arab friends but......well, take a look through any thread on these boards.
I suppose the short answer is that most of us have some bod we hate, does it matter where they come from or is that just an excuse to say "they're all bad from that country" ?

All the Muslims I know don't hate Americans, its just the ones that do stand out more. :p

Prime example :

You still have responded as to why that miserable peice of desert is the prime real-estate in the mid-east. It doesn't have a hugle fertile river running through it, it doesn't have massiv oil reserves, and it doesn't have gold mines. The fact is, the place is a shit-hole that no one in their right mind would want to live in, but the Jews seem to like, and so the Palestinians have decided that they must have it.

You're right, and the invasions and assassination campaigns that were unleased on Iran and Hamas were horrible things that I fe-
The fact is, the US is reacting to Hamas no differently then the world reacts to Bush, and Americans haven't started trying to blow up the rest of the world.

Sadam and the Saudi Royal family are such big Jews.

Or perhaps England could do it again for the Middle East, they are the ones who fucked up the area in the first place.
The Middle East was never the US's backyard, and wasn't even an interest of the people until after the fighting started. Europe should be the one to take a dump on their citizenry so they can start fixing what their colonialism started.
I'm not sure when the US became known as the Janitor of the world, but I am rather tired of my countrymen dying and my taxes being squandered to clean up other people's shit.

This guy seems to think that the trouble in the middle east is some other persons fault yes?
Seems to think that England did some bad thing yes?
Seems to think that Hamas did some bad out there too?
Has none too good words for Europe?
(Does not seem to realise England to the UK is like blaming ohio for dropping an A bomb on Japan)

Wake up small town boy, theres a big world out here and America is not at the center of it.!

Errr, when is he going to say "yeah, its bad, its a bad area and America has no right to be there? When is he going to stop critisizing other countries and stand back and say "America is bad"?
Not on this thread he won't.

All the Muslims I know don't hate Americans, its just the ones that do stand out more. :p
Excelent response, but we seem to be confusing Arabs with Muslims.
Whilst it may be true that the majority of Arabs are Muslim there are a good number that are not. Could I not say at this point that I hate all Americans that I know (and omit to say that the only ones I know are muslim) Oooh you might say, a double edged sword, and you would be correct in your thinking.

So, what nationality would you perceive me to be, and of what persuasion on the religion front?

Isn't Israel sacred to the Jewish religion? Isn't Utah sacred to the Mormons? Wasn't Jerusalem sacred for Crusaders? And aren't all of these basically worthless deserts on the whole?

Isreal wasn't always a desert. You should have seen it when Jesus was alive: absolutely beautiful.

Crusaders only cared about it because jews did/Jesus born around there.

Utah started as a desert, but after much work we turned it into a hospitalable place. It isn't sacred, it was the only beacon of hope we had after the intolerance of America reared its ugly head. You shoud have seen the mob violence American citixens did against my people. Even the President didn't help. So we left the US.

Later, the USA attacked us because they were jerks and power hungry: we joined the US under gun point... so now Utah became part of America by force.
Really, check your history books.

I was watching the Daily Show today, and they reported about a movie, made in Turkey, that portrays Americans as children-killers, among other things. This movie made more $ on its opening day than any other movie in Turkey. This got me into wondering why exactly the Arabs hate us with such ferocity. Iraq and our support of Israel have a lot to do with it, of course, but even before the Iraq invasion they weren't exactly our biggest fans. So, can anyone please adequately explain exactly why they hate us?Well.. The Turks didn't seem to mind you yanks when you helped them commit genocide on their Kurdish minority. Perhaps they're a bit miffed that your government runs their military, or that your government's raid on Iraq might case new problems with the remains of their Kurdish minority.
Or it could be for not trying to pressure EU to accept Turkey, or for US fairly interventionist approach to disenfranchise the Turkish Islamofascists, & denying & ignoring your government's own role in all the current internal turmoil in Turkey.

It's hard to say really. It would take a couple of years to list the possible reasons any given political grouping in Turkey has for considering America a vile cesspool of murder, corruption, assasination, terrorism & other generally loathed, subversive activities. After all, the entire region have some 50 years of reasons for hating America.

That said, I know a few immigrants from Turkey. Not one of them harbours any major grudge against Americans per se, just your various administrations - a feeling shared by most of the peoples of the world, I'm sure. I also happen to run a website with an Arab. He wants to move to the US & thinks it's a great country (he's been there several times). But that doesn't mean he approves of American forign policy - on the contrary.
Many, many moderates & progressives are sick & tired of the American sponsorship of some of the most brutal totalitarian regimes on the planet, and not just because they have to live with the ever-present risk of being imprisoned for life or executed. Many of them don't actually want to see their countries run by insane monarchs & murderous priests.

so the Qu'ran says it, its bad,
the bible says, it its not the true word of god?
i see a bit of biasNot bias, I think. Lack of context, yes. A lot of that going on.

This guy seems to think that the trouble in the middle east is some other persons fault yes?
Seems to think that England did some bad thing yes?
Europe exploited the Middle East to build itself up, did it not?
And when they left, they abandoned the people and stuck them in arbitrarily scattered borders, did they not?
Seems pretty bad to me.
And the MidEast should be Europe's issue anyway, they're the ones who are closer ethnically and geographically.
Seems to think that Hamas did some bad out there too?
If by "bad" you mean aggravating the local nuclear power, then yes. If by "bad" you mean focusing efforts on a campaign of aggression against said power, rather than improving the lot of its people, then yes. If by "bad" you mean encouraging said power to tighten its grip on the area and providing it with excuses to become even more paranoid, then yes, I would say they've done some bad.
Has none too good words for Europe?
Europe did a lot of great things, just none of them happened to have been done in the Middle East.
But, if you must have someone assuage your ego: Voltaire, Nietzche and deSade make very good reading.
(Does not seem to realise England to the UK is like blaming ohio for dropping an A bomb on Japan)
Is that so?
Buck Palace, 10 Downing Street, these are located in England, ja? And when people refer to "Washington" doing something, they mean America, not just one little rotten-ass ghetto, ja? Even though almost every politician lives in a state far away, ja?
You knew what I meant, anyone reading the post would know what I meant, and so the word works.
Wake up small town boy, theres a big world out here and America is not at the center of it.!
By all accounts, the center of the Earth is made of highly pressurised liquid magma, not a very good place to put a country.
Further, if you had read my post at all, you'd have noticed that I'm noting the various reasons that the Middle East isn't an American issue, and shouldn't be an American problem. Instead, I want America to be the center of America, and leave off aggression and foriegn aid. America for Americans, sort of thing.
Errr, when is he going to say "yeah, its bad, its a bad area and America has no right to be there?
*Ahem*
I'm not sure when the US became known as the Janitor of the world, but I am rather tired of my countrymen dying and my taxes being squandered to clean up other people's shit.
Sort of implies that I don't want the US there at all, doesn't it? I'm an isolationist who would like nothing better than to see the US military scaled back, foriegn aid severed, foriegn debt paid off, and an immediate withdrawal from all foriegn bases not urgently needed.
For example, why are we still the bully boys for Japan? They're our friends these days, and could certianly support a force of their own to defend themselves with.
When is he going to stop critisizing other countries and stand back and say "America is bad"?
Not on this thread he won't.
Bad by what standard? Right now, we're fucking up quite a lot, but most of the human population is fucking up quite a lot.
The US is, at worst, average with potential.

I didn't bother reading through the whole thread, but here are my thoughts on why many Arabs seem to hate Americans. Sorry if they've been stated before.

1) Most Arabs are Muslims. The Muslim world got used to being the center of trade and culture back in the middle ages of Europe. Now since Arab Muslim culture's development has been outpaced by Western Civilization, and the most wealthy and powerful western nation is the USA there's some envy there.

2) Many Arabs are devout Muslims. They truly believe that following the rules laid out in the Koran and Hadith are god's own prescription for happiness and prosperity. Americans don't even come close to following the Koran and the Hadiths, yet America is wealthy and powerful while Arabs are poor, politically weak and militarily weak. Our success is therefore in defiance of their god.

3) The US has supported undemocratic and despotic regimes in the middle east in the name of stability. These corrupt regimes have stolen the people's money through corruption and stifled the people's freedom.

4) Corrupt regimes in the middle east deflect criticism from their people by blaming the CIA and US foreign policy for all of their failures.

5) The US supports Israel. Muslim Arabs see Israel as an unbearable insult because it has established a Jewish state on what was once Muslim land.

I was watching the Daily Show today, and they reported about a movie, made in Turkey, that portrays Americans as children-killers, among other things. This movie made more $ on its opening day than any other movie in Turkey. This got me into wondering why exactly the Arabs hate us with such ferocity. Iraq and our support of Israel have a lot to do with it, of course, but even before the Iraq invasion they weren't exactly our biggest fans. So, can anyone please adequately explain exactly why they hate us?


Call a Turk an Arab, and see what happens.
If you really want to know, why don't you take a class or read a history book, instead of asking a bunch of people online, whose likelihood of providing a good answer is abyssmal.

A: Turkey is not part of the Arabian states, they speak Turkish, are well on their way to be part of the Europian Union and write in the Latin alphabet since Attatürk.

B: You remind me very much of that annoying brat in my schoolbuse that annoys everyone to the extend that everyone hates him and then asks 'What have I done for you to hate me.'

C: 1/3 of the world claims to hate America.

D: More of the world would like kill his dubyaness dictator George Bush II than kill Bin Laden.

E: There are more anti Britney Spears sites on the internet than anti Bin Laden Sites and I estimate that no one even knows her in Arabia.

F: Wicca sucks.

"Why do Arabs hate Americans?"

I know I'll catch flack for this, but in a nutshell it's because we're "infidels" and not Muslims. True story.


Sponsoring the Shah. Sponsoring both sides or one side in wars. Sponsoring Israel and using the veto at the UN to save it from sanctions. Being friendly with unpopular regimes. Theres probably a lot more. When you get a definitive list, way at the bottom you could add "and because we're infidels".

And they hate americans because of one thing- religion. .

Absolute shite. Were that the case Italy is far far closer.

Sponsoring the Shah. Sponsoring both sides or one side in wars. Sponsoring Israel and using the veto at the UN to save it from sanctions. Being friendly with unpopular regimes. Theres probably a lot more. When you get a definitive list, way at the bottom you could add "and because we're infidels".
A slightly more exhaustive - but still limited - list of reasons can be found here. (http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html)

According to the Bible I've grown up with, I'm supposed to "love my neighbor" and such. Maybe I'm wrong but one of our tenants is "Thou shalt not murder".

Here are some quotes from the Qur'an. (these and more at http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes1.html)

Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

These two in particular strike me as... not-peaceful:
Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”


I don't seem to recall Jesus telling anyone to go out and slay non-believers and apostates, but I also haven't read my entire Bible cover to cover. I even recall him preaching to the nonbelievers about love and such.

Old testament. And by the way, when America was sponsoring death squads throughout latin America, who do you think was their inspiration?

Old testament. And by the way, when America was sponsoring death squads throughout latin America, who do you think was their inspiration?
The Old Testament is little more than a bunch of old tales. The core of christian doctrine is the New Testament. When there is a contradiction between Old and New Testament (such as the "violence" issue), the New one prevails. Can muslims say something like that?. No, because all the crap in the Coran was supposed to be written by their only prophet.

A slightly more exhaustive - but still limited - list of reasons can be found here. (http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html)

Nice list, though only a few of those examples have to do with the Middle East.

I was watching the Daily Show today, and they reported about a movie, made in Turkey, that portrays Americans as children-killers, among other things. This movie made more $ on its opening day than any other movie in Turkey. This got me into wondering why exactly the Arabs hate us with such ferocity. Iraq and our support of Israel have a lot to do with it, of course, but even before the Iraq invasion they weren't exactly our biggest fans. So, can anyone please adequately explain exactly why they hate us?

Bacon double cheese burgers and free internet porn. They have neither.

Nice list, though only a few of those examples have to do with the Middle East.Yes & no. America projects am image of itself as being the hight of human achievement, socially, morally, financially & technologically.

Just like the staggering hypocrisy of that image leaves a bad taste in my mouth, you can be sure it only serves as fuel to the fire, for people who've been subjegated to US horror policies throughout the last generation.

"Revisionist historians" piss off a lot of people, because people know they're lying & feel they're being shit on. US propaganda does pretty much the same, outside America.

I did advice, though, that the list I linked to, wasn't an exhaustive resource for US interventionism in the ME region. Not that the info isn't out there, I just accidentially killed my bookmarks (the computer, really) the other day, so.. But Google is your friend.

The Old Testament is little more than a bunch of old tales. The core of christian doctrine is the New Testament. When there is a contradiction between Old and New Testament (such as the "violence" issue), the New one prevails. Can muslims say something like that?. No, because all the crap in the Coran was supposed to be written by their only prophet.
I'd find it funny when somebody living in a country where the religious right are doing their utmost to drive out all of the evolutionists, abortionists and zionists comes out with this sort of statement if it wasn't so depressing.

I was watching the Daily Show today, and they reported about a movie, made in Turkey, that portrays Americans as children-killers, among other things. This movie made more $ on its opening day than any other movie in Turkey. This got me into wondering why exactly the Arabs hate us with such ferocity. Iraq and our support of Israel have a lot to do with it, of course, but even before the Iraq invasion they weren't exactly our biggest fans. So, can anyone please adequately explain exactly why they hate us?

Gee, it's a good thing we never have TV shows or movies that show Arabs as terrorists. They might think we hate them.

No, because all the crap in the Coran was supposed to be written by their only prophet.

Only prophet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasul

You still have responded as to why that miserable peice of desert is the prime real-estate in the mid-east. It doesn't have a hugle fertile river running through it, it doesn't have massiv oil reserves, and it doesn't have gold mines. The fact is, the place is a shit-hole that no one in their right mind would want to live in, but the Jews seem to like, and so the Palestinians have decided that they must have it.

Or perhaps England could do it again for the Middle East, they are the ones who fucked up the area in the first place.
The Middle East was never the US's backyard, and wasn't even an interest of the people until after the fighting started. Europe should be the one to take a dump on their citizenry so they can start fixing what their colonialism started.
I'm not sure when the US became known as the Janitor of the world, but I am rather tired of my countrymen dying and my taxes being squandered to clean up other people's shit.

On the first point you are simply wrong. Palistine was at the end of WW2 the most prosperous area of the Mid-East. An area where the rich went for vacation. The Palistinian people were the best educated, richest, and most liberal part of the area. They followed the original laws of Muslim which recognized Jews and Christians as sister religions. Jews and Christians had to pay and extra tax, but otherwise had all rights to full Citizenship (Unlike being a Muslim or Christian in Israel today. Which brings up the question, is Israel "democratic"?) The Muslim religion recognizes Abraham, Moses, and Jesus as great prophets. They honored Jews and Christians for recognizing those prophets. (Can the same be said for the "Love?" of Christians toward their sister religion) Before WW2 the area was at peace. People of all three religions socialized and lived together better than the religions live together in the US today. Don't you wonder what it would be like if "Christians" showed love and respect for their fellow believers?

On the second point. England is of course the lap dog of the US. If the US made an effort, England would wag it's tail and follow. If fact I'll bet the other western powers would contribute also. The US can't do it alone now because we shot our economic wad on hate.

Bacon double cheese burgers and free internet porn. They have neither.

You forgot the women who dress provocatively and will have sex outside of marriage.

The Old Testament is little more than a bunch of old tales. The core of christian doctrine is the New Testament. When there is a contradiction between Old and New Testament (such as the "violence" issue), the New one prevails. Can muslims say something like that?. No, because all the crap in the Coran was supposed to be written by their only prophet.
So the core of the NT is to hate all who are not Christian, or maybe Jewish. Christians are to spread the word of Jesus through insulting and disrespecting those of other beliefs. Could you show me wher those verses are?

The Old Testament is little more than a bunch of old tales. The core of christian doctrine is the New Testament. When there is a contradiction between Old and New Testament (such as the "violence" issue), the New one prevails. Can muslims say something like that?. No, because all the crap in the Coran was supposed to be written by their only prophet.

Really...the New Testament prevails.on the violence issue.so thats why America supported the Shah.......and the whole latin American death squad thing back in Ronnie Rayguns day...and Vietnam...but wait....I sense your brain saying "BUT THATS DIFFERENT".....


On the first point you are simply wrong. Palistine was at the end of WW2 the most prosperous area of the Mid-East. An area where the rich went for vacation. The Palistinian people were the best educated, richest, and most liberal part of the area. They followed the original laws of Muslim which recognized Jews and Christians as sister religions. Jews and Christians had to pay and extra tax, but otherwise had all rights to full Citizenship (Unlike being a Muslim or Christian in Israel today. Which brings up the question, is Israel "democratic"?) The Muslim religion recognizes Abraham, Moses, and Jesus as great prophets. They honored Jews and Christians for recognizing those prophets. (Can the same be said for the "Love?" of Christians toward their sister religion) Before WW2 the area was at peace. People of all three religions socialized and lived together better than the religions live together in the US today. Don't you wonder what it would be like if "Christians" showed love and respect for their fellow believers?

On the second point. England is of course the lap dog of the US. If the US made an effort, England would wag it's tail and follow. If fact I'll bet the other western powers would contribute also. The US can't do it alone now because we shot our economic wad on hate..

A good post by Goodlife there.

"and because we're infidels".
Christians and Jews aren't infidels. They are "People of the Book". People who's prophets paved the way for Mohammed. As such they are honored as sister religions.

Too Bad Jews and Christians don't return the respect.

Absolute shite. Were that the case Italy is far far closer.

Really? :rolleyes:

Maybe you should examine some evidence, or take a class on comparative religion, or a class on the history of the Arab-Isaeli conflict. Religion IS the center of the problem.

Oh, and they hate Italy too. Italy is part of the west. But Italy is not a superpower, and thus doesn't have as big a target on itself.

Americans have a need for stereotypes and preconcepts, I think this is pretty obvious in movies, so they think all arabs hate them just because some of them do because they think they lack values or whatever.
By the way, i may have some arabic blood cause they ruled the land where my country is now for centuries. (Portugal - not part of Spain and not a Latin American country);)

I hate Arabs. They should be exterminated every Arab sole living alive now. When I come into power in America I will take control of the Middle East and make secret concentration camps. There I will gas them all. ALL OF THEM. DOWN WITH THE ARAB RACE! ONCE THE ARABS ARE GONE! LET THE EUROPEANS OCCUPY THE MIDDLE EAST!
Am I supposed to take this seeriously??

Really...the New Testament prevails.on the violence issue.so thats why America supported the Shah.......and the whole latin American death squad thing back in Ronnie Rayguns day...and Vietnam...but wait....I sense your brain saying "BUT THATS DIFFERENT".....

I don't recall any of those events being inspired by religious commandments.
All of the actions you've listed were viewed as beneficial to America at the time. Or so I have been taught in my public school system.

I will say, though, that Vietnam is a war our leaders got us into with the wrong mindset. We ought to have pummeled the North Vietnamese and then played politics. Taking hills and then leaving them for the enemy to retake isn't exactly a good strategy. But that's another topic.

Christians and Jews aren't infidels. They are "People of the Book". People who's prophets paved the way for Mohammed. As such they are honored as sister religions.

Too Bad Jews and Christians don't return the respect.

Untrue. In Islamic lands, i.e., in Dar al-Islam, Christians and Jews are "non-believers". As such, they are either paying the jizya, or they are dead. They are dhimmi, or they are dead.

Even as tax paying dhimmi, they do not have equal rights.

As an example, if I am a Christian paying the tax, and you are a Moslem who rapes me, unless I can provide a Moslem witness, the rape never happened. Same for murder, theft, etc.

The moment I stop paying the tax, my life is forfeit.

It's right there in the sharia. Stop being an apologist.

Untrue. In Islamic lands, i.e., in Dar al-Islam, Christians and Jews are "non-believers". As such, they are either paying the jizya, or they are dead. They are dhimmi, or they are dead.

Even as tax paying dhimmi, they do not have equal rights.

As an example, if I am a Christian paying the tax, and you are a Moslem who rapes me, unless I can provide a Moslem witness, the rape never happened. Same for murder, theft, etc.

The moment I stop paying the tax, my life is forfeit.

It's right there in the sharia. Stop being an apologist.

Is there a set of countries that formally comprise the "Dar al-Islam"? These are countries where there is no secular law, but rather some kind of Theocracy?

In the case of your example, absent the Muslim (sic?) witness, would the authorities seriously just drop the matter? (I'm not doubting that they could, if they have that kind of power). I would think (or at least hope) that the authorities and Muslim community would be sufficiently worried about the presence of a rapist in their midst that they would pursue the matter via some other kind of evidence.

For example, were there other sufficient evidence to establish the guilt of the rapist, but the judges had it in there power to excuse the perpetrator because of the lack of a Muslim witness, would the judges let the rapist go because the victim is Christian?

Also, in this kind of goverment, is raping a Christian a lesser crime than raping a Muslim?

IF A TOON KILLED MY BROTHER, I'D HATE ME TOO!

haha sorry. THIS THREAD NEEDS MORE ROGER RABBIT OK.
but seriously, it's a stupid question. speaking for myself, being part arab, i hate SOME americans because they are insensitive and have this cavalier attitude about other people's human rights, like they can do whatever they want because OZMG I AM FROM AMERICA. like...get over it. i have no idea.

Americans have a need for stereotypes and preconcepts, I think this is pretty obvious in movies, so they think all arabs hate them just because some of them do because they think they lack values or whatever.
By the way, i may have some arabic blood cause they ruled the land where my country is now for centuries. (Portugal - not part of Spain and not a Latin American country);)

The very irony of this post astounds me. I hope I am not the oonly person who realizes the irony of this.

Do you see 200 million people burning flags, making movies, etc? Because I can also watch statements by Pat Robertson and ask "Why do Americans want to murder elected foreign leaders" as well. If you changed the name of this thread my questions would become "Did you have sex with a zebra?" and so on. Why? Because the proposition that all Arabs hate the US is just as absurd, wether as a "why" or as a "do" question.

I don't see 200 million people burning flags or making movies, but I see millions watching those movies, and millions other who while not engaging in outright terrorism, condone it in one way or another. Don't bring Pat Robertson into this, he's an old, senile fool. If most Arabs don't hate the US, then explain why there is a vicious insurgency in Iraq, why Pakistani villages have to bombed because they harbor Al Qaida operatives, why...well, you get the idea ( I hope)

Ok, first of all. This is coming from a 14 year old arab who's mother works for the U.S. Department Of Defence. Arabs, in general, do not hate americans. If you walk down the street in an arab city and ask people if they hate america, 80% of them will say that they do not. Just because a couple of orginisations use islam as an excuse for their psycological issues does not mean that it is a hatefull religion.

Do all christian Germans hate Jews?
Do all Hispanic people work as gardeners?
Are all African Americans in gangs?


Are all arabs terrorists?

I've found that in America, muslims are integrated very well into society, and I have no problem with American muslims. It's the ones that live in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan that I have a problem with. Do all Germans hate Jews? 65 years ago, the overwhelming majority did. As for the other two questions, they are purely occupational questions and they have nothing to do about people's biases towards other people.

You forgot the women who dress provocatively and will have sex outside of marriage.

Obviously, you lack constant access to bacon double cheesburgers and free internet porn. :D

Christians and Jews aren't infidels. They are "People of the Book". People who's prophets paved the way for Mohammed. As such they are honored as sister religions.

Too Bad Jews and Christians don't return the respect.

Respect like this?
http://www.jcpa.org/phas/world_cartoon.gif
http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-21.htm

or this?
Iran paper's Holocaust cartoons
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4709380.stm

or, most spectacularly, this?
Iranian leader denies Holocaust
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4527142.stm

how about this one?

Palestinians use Church of the Nativity as refuge
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1916580.stm
...if Westerners took over a Mosque and used it like they did, the uproar will be nothing compared to the Danish cartoons.

Check my books to tell me what? That you missed all of my points?

Isreal wasn't always a desert. You should have seen it when Jesus was alive: absolutely beautiful.

1. a. Jesus spent part of his life in the goddamn desert. b. I doubt you have seen the place back then. c. I doubt that it was more beautiful than today's Lebanon. d. no matter what it was, for someone today (where appliable), DESERT OR NOT, the place is holy.

Crusaders only cared about it because jews did/Jesus born around there.

2. So? I could back your point, and say that the main purpose of the First Crusade had completely ignored Jerusalem, and was actually designed to help Byzantines after Mantzikert (especially since the Holy City had been occupied by Muslims for a couple of hundred years by then). BUT: the discourse for the average crusader ever since has centered on the holyness of Palestine, aimed at Muslim and Jewish presence. Not only that, it followed the usually ignored Byzantine rhetoric: they turned the place into a Christian theme park, they massacred all Jews who had managed to resettle, as well as the majority of Syrian/Arab Christians who had decided to follow Monophysitism. Consider the sheer number of religious buildings in Palestine and Syria, and compare it with the Christian population in place at any point in history. NOW: SEE THAT CHRISTIANITY HAS THE NOTION OF A HOLY LAND?

Utah started as a desert, but after much work we turned it into a hospitalable place. It isn't sacred, it was the only beacon of hope we had after the intolerance of America reared its ugly head. You shoud have seen the mob violence American citixens did against my people. Even the President didn't help. So we left the US.

3. Wasn't it "prophecy" that Mormons were to take refuge there? And, frankly, I do not care about reasons and whatever. Nothing of what you said goes beyond the fact that it was as much a holy place as Mecca is (roughly). "Hospitable place [for a religion]" is less of a holy place? Not only did Moses lead his people to a safe haven (the staple holy place), but what do you think Mecca was? Ever heard of the original Hajj?

My point (and this is the REAL point I was making, one that slipped passed your attention) is that there is nothing inherently wrong in having holy places. Plus (something I should have specified earlier) it is only part of the Wahabbis (including Osama) that believe more than the area strictly around Mecca and Medina is taboo. Osama spews out populist nonesense about American troops being a Christain (which this minority also fallaciously pinpoints as the Quranic nonbelievers) presence on "holy" soil. (Now, wether Americans there do in fact serve global peace, or anything other than wish for resource control, is another matter altogether).

I hope I made myself clear.

Americans have a need for stereotypes and preconcepts, I think this is pretty obvious in movies, so they think all arabs hate them just because some of them do because they think they lack values or whatever.
By the way, i may have some arabic blood cause they ruled the land where my country is now for centuries. (Portugal - not part of Spain and not a Latin American country);)

You're stereotyping Americans by saying that Americans have a need for stereotypes. How amusing.

Most of the Arabs do hate Americans. Don't tell me it's just a few radicals. For every activist radical, there are many other nonactivist radicals.