NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11376032/

I found this interesting and a little sad that teflon could be a likely carcinogen. There have been a few studies suggesting this apparently. I love my teflon pans and hope that it isnt true because cleaning up non-tefloned pans is no fun.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11376032/

I found this interesting and a little sad that teflon could be a likely carcinogen. There have been a few studies suggesting this apparently. I love my teflon pans and hope that it isnt true because cleaning up non-tefloned pans is no fun.This is... old news. Just don't scratch your teflon pans (don't use metallic kitchen utensils on it) and you'll be fine.

There were studies done by the Japanese in the 1980s that proved that beef broth was one of the more potent carcinogens, but I don't hear anyone clamoring to ban it.

There are multiple studies that prove that oxygen in the air (even a minute surplus) is a carcinogen.

The carcinogenicity of any substance is directly related to the dose - it would be more interesting to know what does would be required for a human - and how much teflon you actually ingest over time.

Just waving the "OMFG it's a carcinogen!" is pretty stupid.

I love my teflon pans and hope that it isnt true because cleaning up non-tefloned pans is no fun.

I have a cast iron frying pan and I clean it thusly:

1. Take an organic brush (i.e. made from straw or whatever).
2. Put the pan under hot water.
3. Apply the brush over the surface of the pan.

Tada! No washing up liquid necessary.

This is... old news. Just don't scratch your teflon pans (don't use metallic kitchen utensils on it) and you'll be fine.

Feb. 15, 2006 - I guess it's old in the sentence "this news is two days old".

I have a cast iron frying pan and I clean it thusly:

1. Take an organic brush (i.e. made from straw or whatever).
2. Put the pan under hot water.
3. Apply the brush over the surface of the pan.

Tada! No washing up liquid necessary.
We clean our cast iron thusly:

1.Burn the shit out of whatever is left in the pan.
2.Scrub it out.

See? One less step:) Cast iron is finicky. You need 'break it in', and you don't want to wash all of the oil out of it or things stick like crazy. But there is nothing that tastes better than popcorn popped in a cast iron pot. Cast iron pots and pans also double as highly effective clobbering devices, tend not to slide off the stove as easily as other pots and pans (because of their weight), and will literally last forever. I'm using my great-grandparent's set.

There were studies done by the Japanese in the 1980s that proved that beef broth was one of the more potent carcinogens, but I don't hear anyone clamoring to ban it.

There are multiple studies that prove that oxygen in the air (even a minute surplus) is a carcinogen.

The carcinogenicity of any substance is directly related to the dose - it would be more interesting to know what does would be required for a human - and how much teflon you actually ingest over time.

Just waving the "OMFG it's a carcinogen!" is pretty stupid.

I never heard that about beef broth but I imagine it has to do with basically any cooked food being carconogenic.

Yes I wonder too about the amount of PFOA needed to be carcinogenic. I've probably ingested tons of PFOA over my lifetime.

I was looking for those multiple studies that oxygen was carconogenic in minute amounts and couldn't find it. Nor could I find the beef broth one.

I have a cast iron frying pan and I clean it thusly:

1. Take an organic brush (i.e. made from straw or whatever).
2. Put the pan under hot water.
3. Apply the brush over the surface of the pan.

Tada! No washing up liquid necessary.


it's not always that easy, plus you get cancer from scrubbing too hard

We clean our cast iron thusly:

1.Burn the shit out of whatever is left in the pan.
2.Scrub it out.

See? One less step:) Cast iron is finicky. You need 'break it in', and you don't want to wash all of the oil out of it or things stick like crazy. But there is nothing that tastes better than popcorn popped in a cast iron pot. Cast iron pots and pans also double as highly effective clobbering devices, tend not to slide off the stove as easily as other pots and pans (because of their weight), and will literally last forever. I'm using my great-grandparent's set.


ohhhhh two steps instead of three - I likey!

I have a cast iron skillet that I dont use cuz it rusted.

it's not always that easy, plus you get cancer from scrubbing too hard

With Cast Iron it is. Sometimes you need a squirt of soap, then you boil the water for a few minutes, but a properly seasoned cast iron pan is easy to clean.

I never heard that about beef broth but I imagine it has to do with basically any cooked food being carconogenic.

Yes I wonder too about the amount of PFOA needed to be carcinogenic. I've probably ingested tons of PFOA over my lifetime.

I was looking for those multiple studies that oxygen was carconogenic in minute amounts and couldn't find it. Nor could I find the beef broth one.

If you're looking for studies, go to PubMed and search.

ohhhhh two steps instead of three - I likey!

I have a cast iron skillet that I dont use cuz it rusted.

Clean it! Even a rusty cast iron skillet can be reseasoned and used.

1] Scrub the hell out of it with a hard wire brush and hot water.
2] Coat the entire pan in oil. (I use a bucket filled with oil to dip a rusty pan in)
3] Put the skillet in a fire. Not the oven. An actual fire.
4] Wait about an hour.
5] Repeat 2-3 times.

Good as new!

I saw a news report on this, the slant of the report was that women esp. housewives are more prone to illness because of all the houshold cleaning chemicals we breathe in, and then at the end they talked about a new study that said that teflon could cause cancer and "how many of you women have a no-stick frying pan?"

then the broke for commercial..........and the commercial was about a toilet bowl cleaner with teflon in it to "make cleaning easier"

I thought it was hilarious. (and a little scary)

Clean it! Even a rusty cast iron skillet can be reseasoned and used.

1] Scrub the hell out of it with a hard wire brush and hot water.
2] Coat the entire pan in oil. (I use a bucket filled with oil to dip a rusty pan in)
3] Put the skillet in a fire. Not the oven. An actual fire.
4] Wait about an hour.
5] Repeat 2-3 times.

Good as new!


lol seems easier to risk cancer :p

I saw a news report on this, the slant of the report was that women esp. housewives are more prone to illness because of all the houshold cleaning chemicals we breathe in, and then at the end they talked about a new study that said that teflon could cause cancer and "how many of you women have a no-stick frying pan?"

then the broke for commercial..........and the commercial was about a toilet bowl cleaner with teflon in it to "make cleaning easier"

I thought it was hilarious. (and a little scary)


See? The U.S. needs to invade housewives. They ahve all the chemical weapons and aren't afraid to use them!

Clean it! Even a rusty cast iron skillet can be reseasoned and used.

1] Scrub the hell out of it with a hard wire brush and hot water.
2] Coat the entire pan in oil. (I use a bucket filled with oil to dip a rusty pan in)
3] Put the skillet in a fire. Not the oven. An actual fire.
4] Wait about an hour.
5] Repeat 2-3 times.

Good as new!

Never seasoned a pan that way.

I use Crisco--layer it on thick (1/8 inch or so). Put it in an 500 degree oven for about an hour. Wait for it to cool. Repeat 3 times.

After you've seasoned it, cook with a small amount of olive oil, unless you're using fatty meat.

If you're looking for studies, go to PubMed and search.


obviously my search skills are inferior to yours as I looked there and saw nothing of the sort either.

IIRC according to the study, it is a possible carcinogen in gaseous form. To make it gaseous, it has to be heated to over 400F. Not something that normally occurs on your average stove.

But that's no fun to report.

Someone tell me if I'm wrong on my facts.

obviously my search skills are inferior to yours as I looked there and saw nothing of the sort either.
Maybe he meant the Onion. Stop harrassing him and asking for pesky sources! Accept what he says on face value damnit!

obviously my search skills are inferior to yours as I looked there and saw nothing of the sort either.
Maybe they are inferior. I've been using PubMed for years, even before it was a web page.

Not everyone can find everything at the National Library of Medicine.

Maybe he meant the Onion. Stop harrassing him and asking for pesky sources! Accept what he says on face value damnit!

I guess I should. It does sound more like a study reported in the Onion. lol! :fluffle:

I'd still like to read about it though if anyone else wishes help me out and to try to find any of these multiple studies where oxygen has been found to be carcinogenic.

I guess I should. It does sound more like a study reported in the Onion. lol! :fluffle:

I'd still like to read about it though if anyone else wishes help me out and to try to find any of these multiple studies where oxygen has been found to be carcinogenic.
I'll help you out.

Why don't you start with the effects of oxidation on DNA?

I could go further.

You breathe in oxygen.

It is in the form of two oxygen molecules bound together.

They are separated during the process of being bound to hemoglobin in the blood.

Free radical oxygen.

Search PubMed for oxidative carcinogenesis

More papers on the subject than you can count.

It's one of the things used to prove that there is a safe limit for a carcinogen - that's obvious, otherwise we would all die of cancer.

I'll help you out.

Why don't you start with the effects of oxidation on DNA?


Okay then I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that breathing causes cancer (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s3i2180&rating=3). I don't believe that breathing causes oxidation of DNA so I assume you mean that taking substances that caused oxidation of DNA is what is considered carcinogenic.

Okay then I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that breathing causes cancer (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s3i2180&rating=3). I don't believe that breathing causes oxidation of DNA so I assume you mean that taking substances that caused oxidation of DNA is what is considered carcinogenic.
Oxygen causes oxidation.

By breathing, you introduce oxygen (as O2), which is rapidly separated into free oxygen atoms in your blood.

It's been used for a long time in court cases to prove that there is a safe limit - no such thing as a zero limit for any carcinogen (perhaps a zero practical limit, but not a true zero limit).

Mechanisms of DNA Oxidation (http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/content/full/222/3/246)

Free radicals seem to come from not having a proper diet and the intake of certain chemicals as well.

Mechanisms of DNA Oxidation (http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/content/full/222/3/246)

Free radicals seem to come from not having a proper diet and the intake of certain chemicals as well.
If there was no oxygen present... there's no oxidation.

This is all an attempt to make us free radicals (as opposed to those that have been imprisoned) seem dangerous to public health so that people will support us all being locked up. Shame on you, Deep Kimchi.

This is all an attempt to make us free radicals (as opposed to those that have been imprisoned) seem dangerous to public health so that people will support us all being locked up. Shame on you, Deep Kimchi.

Well, as you know, the source of free radicals is the breathing of air.

If there was no oxygen present... there's no oxidation.


If there were no armys present there wouldn't be any wars.

If there were no armys present there wouldn't be any wars.
*licks you*

This is all an attempt to make us free radicals (as opposed to those that have been imprisoned) seem dangerous to public health so that people will support us all being locked up. Shame on you, Deep Kimchi.


But imagine if you could somehow raise funds by being fairly priced radicals!

But imagine if you could somehow raise funds by being fairly priced radicals!
ah, "free market" radicals... sounds like capitalism to me...

But imagine if you could somehow raise funds by being fairly priced radicals!A free radical auction? I like it...

*licks you*

:fluffle:

See? Thats why I say this stuff... you get the affection from sexy radicals! :D

A free radical auction? I like it...

Why have an auction if they're free?

Why have an auction if they're free?

Have you been to Ebay? People will bid on anything!

Life itself is carcinogenic.

Helping out SB - here's the references to beef broth on Pub Med as a carcinogen. It might not always be mentioned in the title, but it is in the text of the research paper.

Laugh now. I'm pretty good at finding stuff on Pub Med. Now I'll turn around and find the oxygen research.

Adamson RH, Thorgeirsson UP. Carcinogens in foods: Heterocyclic amines and cancer and heart disease. Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology 1995; 369:211-220.

Adamson RH, Thorgeirsson UP, Snyderwine EG, et al. Carcinogenicity of 2-amino-3-methylimidazo[4,5-f] quinoline in nonhuman primates: Induction of tumors in three macaques. Japanese Journal of Cancer Research 1990; 81(1):10-14.

Bjeldanes LF, Morris MM, Felton JS, et al. Mutagens from the cooking of food. II. Survey by Ames/Salmonella test of mutagen formation in the major protein-rich foods of the American diet. Food and Chemical Toxicology 1982; 20(4):357-363.

Bogen KT. Cancer potencies of heterocyclic amines found in cooked foods. Food and Chemical Toxicology 1994; 32(6):505-515.

Dolara P, Commoner B, Vithayathil A, et al. The effect of temperature on the formation of mutagens in heated beef stock and cooked ground beef. Mutation Research 1979; 60(3):231-237.

Esumi H, Ohgaki H, Kohzen E, Takayama S, Sugimura T. Induction of lymphoma in CDF1 mice by the food mutagen, 2-amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b] pyridine. Japanese Journal of Cancer Research 1989; 80(12):1176-1178.

Felton JS, Knize MG, Shen NH, et al. Identification of the mutagens in cooked beef. Environmental Health Perspectives 1986; 67:17-24.

Hayatsu, H. Mutagens in food: detection and prevention. Florida, CRC Press, 1991.

Murray S, Gooderham NJ, Boobis AR, Davies DS. Detection and measurement of MelQx in human urine after ingestion of a cooked meat meal. Carcinogenesis 1989; 10(4):763-765.

Muscat JE, Wynder EL. The consumption of well-done meat and the risk of colorectal cancer. American Journal of Public Health 1994; 84(5):856-858.

Snyderwine EG. Some perspectives on the nutritional aspects of breast cancer research. Food-derived heterocyclic amines as etiologic agents in human mammary cancer. Cancer 1994; 74(3 Supplement):1070-1077.

Stavric B. Biological significance of trace levels of mutagenic heterocycylic aromatic amines in human diet: A critical review. Food and Chemical Toxicology 1994; 32(10):977-994.

Wakabayashi K, Ushiyama H, Takahashi M, et al. Exposure to heterocyclic amines. Environmental Health Perspectives 1993; 99:129-134.

Here Sumamba...

oxygen causes cancer...

http://www.oncolink.org/resources/article.cfm?c=3&s=8&ss=23&Year=2005&Month=8&id=12197

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Exposure at birth to 3 or more minutes of oxygen may be associated with a slightly increased risk of cancer later in childhood, according to researchers.

In a study published in the July issue of the Journal of Pediatrics, Dr. Logan G. Spector, of the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, and colleagues examined the relationship between neonatal oxygen supplementation (O2) and childhood cancer. Included in the Collaborative Perinatal Project were 54,795 children born between 1959 and 1966 and followed to age 8 years.

When comparing O2 exposure for 0 to 2 and 3 or more minutes to no O2, the hazard ratios were 0.69 and 2.87, respectively. When the analysis was restricted to cancers diagnosed after age 1 year, the HR was 2.00 and not significant.

Because the findings do not "unambiguously support an association between O2 and childhood cancer," the investigators do not recommend changes in treatment guidelines. However, additional studies are indicated.

"Pediatricians have already been debating about the possible toxicity of pure oxygen to the eyes, lungs and brain," Dr. Spector said in an interview with Reuters Health. "As a result, several studies have investigated whether room air is as effective as pure oxygen for resuscitating newborns," he noted. "This study should be evidence in this debate."

http://www.pedresearch.org/cgi/content/full/54/6/789

Oxygen Toxicity at Birth: The Pieces Are Put Together
A review of: Naumburg E, Bellocco R, Cnattingius S, et al. 2002 Supplementary oxygen and risk of childhood lymphatic leukaemia. Acta Paediatr 91:1328–1333; and Vento M, Asensi M, Sastre J, et al. 2003 Oxidative stress in asphyxiated term infants resuscitated with 100% oxygen. J Pediatr 142:240–246

OLA DIDRIK SAUGSTAD

Department of Pediatric Research, University of Oslo, Rikshospitalet, 0027 Oslo, Norway, e-mail: o.d.saugstad@klinmed.uio.no

RECENTLY NAUMBURG ET al. (1) presented data indicating there is an association between a brief exposure of pure oxygen at birth and childhood lymphatic leukemia. In a population based case-control study, the authors searched for predisposing factors exerting their influence early in life. Five hundred seventy-eight children with lymphatic leukemia were identified through the Swedish Cancer Register and each matched with one control randomly selected from the Swedish Birth Register.

Helping out SB - here's the references to beef broth on Pub Med as a carcinogen. It might not always be mentioned in the title, but it is in the text of the research paper.

Laugh now. I'm pretty good at finding stuff on Pub Med. Now I'll turn around and find the oxygen research.

Adamson RH, Thorgeirsson UP. Carcinogens in foods: Heterocyclic amines and cancer and heart disease. Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology 1995; 369:211-220.

Adamson RH, Thorgeirsson UP, Snyderwine EG, et al. Carcinogenicity of 2-amino-3-methylimidazo[4,5-f] quinoline in nonhuman primates: Induction of tumors in three macaques. Japanese Journal of Cancer Research 1990; 81(1):10-14.

Bjeldanes LF, Morris MM, Felton JS, et al. Mutagens from the cooking of food. II. Survey by Ames/Salmonella test of mutagen formation in the major protein-rich foods of the American diet. Food and Chemical Toxicology 1982; 20(4):357-363.

Bogen KT. Cancer potencies of heterocyclic amines found in cooked foods. Food and Chemical Toxicology 1994; 32(6):505-515.

Dolara P, Commoner B, Vithayathil A, et al. The effect of temperature on the formation of mutagens in heated beef stock and cooked ground beef. Mutation Research 1979; 60(3):231-237.

Esumi H, Ohgaki H, Kohzen E, Takayama S, Sugimura T. Induction of lymphoma in CDF1 mice by the food mutagen, 2-amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b] pyridine. Japanese Journal of Cancer Research 1989; 80(12):1176-1178.

Felton JS, Knize MG, Shen NH, et al. Identification of the mutagens in cooked beef. Environmental Health Perspectives 1986; 67:17-24.

Hayatsu, H. Mutagens in food: detection and prevention. Florida, CRC Press, 1991.

Murray S, Gooderham NJ, Boobis AR, Davies DS. Detection and measurement of MelQx in human urine after ingestion of a cooked meat meal. Carcinogenesis 1989; 10(4):763-765.

Muscat JE, Wynder EL. The consumption of well-done meat and the risk of colorectal cancer. American Journal of Public Health 1994; 84(5):856-858.

Snyderwine EG. Some perspectives on the nutritional aspects of breast cancer research. Food-derived heterocyclic amines as etiologic agents in human mammary cancer. Cancer 1994; 74(3 Supplement):1070-1077.

Stavric B. Biological significance of trace levels of mutagenic heterocycylic aromatic amines in human diet: A critical review. Food and Chemical Toxicology 1994; 32(10):977-994.

Wakabayashi K, Ushiyama H, Takahashi M, et al. Exposure to heterocyclic amines. Environmental Health Perspectives 1993; 99:129-134.

Thanks, although interesting I am not worried because I don't touch the stuff. I was more interested in the oxygen issue.

Here Sumamba...

oxygen causes cancer...

http://www.oncolink.org/resources/article.cfm?c=3&s=8&ss=23&Year=2005&Month=8&id=12197


kuhl thanks

although I wouldn't go so far as to make a definitive statement based on this article as it only says it is a possibility.

http://www.pedresearch.org/cgi/content/full/54/6/789

Also very interesting, so breathing isn't the cause of cancer but 100% oxygen for a newborn can be dangerous then? It seems that is what it is saying anyway:

Oxygen exposure later in the neonatal period did not reveal an increased risk for childhood lymphatic leukemia.

kuhl thanks

although I wouldn't go so far as to make a definitive statement based on this article as it only says it is a possibility.

Really? Then check this out:

http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/1448.pdf

Oxygen causes mutations. While this one says the jury is still out on cancer, I've posted another study that links it.

Also, other supposed carcinogens have been banned solely on the allegation that they are mutagenic - as is oxygen.

Also very interesting, so breathing isn't the cause of cancer but 100% oxygen for a newborn can be dangerous then? It seems that is what it is saying anyway:
Oxygen at normal levels is safe.

Oxygen at high levels causes cancer.

As I said in my initial post, it is a matter of dose rate. Merely saying that something causes cancer is inaccurate.

You need to know the dose required to cause an effect.

Many supposed carcinogens are safe at certain limits.

Teflon may be one of them - even if you eat the solid substance, it is unreactive - so we would need studies to know how much is actually dissolved in your body or reacts with your body - and how much is excreted unchanged.

Really? Then check this out:

http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/1448.pdf

Oxygen causes mutations. While this one says the jury is still out on cancer, I've posted another study that links it.

Also, other supposed carcinogens have been banned solely on the allegation that they are mutagenic - as is oxygen.

It also seems to be out on mutations as it says "Oxygen may cause mutations". Quite hating on oxygen man. What has oxygen ever done to you? But thanks for the links, I appreciate you taking the time to find this stuff for me:)

Oxygen at normal levels is safe.

Oxygen at high levels causes cancer.

As I said in my initial post, it is a matter of dose rate. Merely saying that something causes cancer is inaccurate.

You need to know the dose required to cause an effect.

Many supposed carcinogens are safe at certain limits.

Teflon may be one of them - even if you eat the solid substance, it is unreactive - so we would need studies to know how much is actually dissolved in your body or reacts with your body - and how much is excreted unchanged.


You are correct and I agreed with you that we need to know the dose rates. I never disputed that. I only wanted to see these numerous studies that showed that oxygen caused cancer, and what you have shown me are articles that say that high dosages of oxygen might possibly cause cancer to asphyxiated newborns in the first 10 minutes of being born or some shit.

You are correct and I agreed with you that we need to know the dose rates. I never disputed that. I only wanted to see these numerous studies that showed that oxygen caused cancer, and what you have shown me are articles that say that high dosages of oxygen might possibly cause cancer to asphyxiated newborns in the first 10 minutes of being born or some shit.


This is not "might". This is evidence.

Oxygen Toxicity at Birth: The Pieces Are Put Together
A review of: Naumburg E, Bellocco R, Cnattingius S, et al. 2002 Supplementary oxygen and risk of childhood lymphatic leukaemia. Acta Paediatr 91:1328–1333; and Vento M, Asensi M, Sastre J, et al. 2003 Oxidative stress in asphyxiated term infants resuscitated with 100% oxygen. J Pediatr 142:240–246

OLA DIDRIK SAUGSTAD

Department of Pediatric Research, University of Oslo, Rikshospitalet, 0027 Oslo, Norway, e-mail: o.d.saugstad@klinmed.uio.no

RECENTLY NAUMBURG ET al. (1) presented data indicating there is an association between a brief exposure of pure oxygen at birth and childhood lymphatic leukemia. In a population based case-control study, the authors searched for predisposing factors exerting their influence early in life. Five hundred seventy-eight children with lymphatic leukemia were identified through the Swedish Cancer Register and each matched with one control randomly selected from the Swedish Birth Register.

You are right, but only in high doses given to newborns in the first 10 minutes after birth apparently. Also if it was so definitive why would they say "Therefore any possible mutagenic, carcinogenic or other long-term detrimental effects of oxygen exposure immediately after birth urgently need to be investigated.". It still doesn't seem to be case closed on it.

If you own birds, get rid of your teflon pans. If you expose birds to the fumes produced by heating teflon (supposedly harmless to humans, btw), they will indeed keel over dead.

Cast-iron pans rule.


*edit: I just blundered in without reading anybody else's posts, sorry if I'm not adding anything new, here

If you own birds, get rid of your teflon pans. If you expose birds to the fumes produced by heating teflon (supposedly harmless to humans, btw), they will indeed keel over dead.

Cast-iron pans rule.

[/SIZE]

I usually put my birds in my teflon pan, with a little bit of olive oil. Is that OK?

Wait wait, don't buy Chinese cast iron pans made from recycled mobile phone batteries. ;)

Maybe someone already mentioned it, but you should check out the studies done on the chemical substance Dihydromonooxide of which exists in abundance on earth, even in our atmosphere and in our oceans! Its a major cause of death at beaches all over the world!</spoof>