NationStates Jolt Archive

There seems to be a (seemingly unnoticed) disagreement between whether religion itself should be respected, or simply people's right to be religious. Personally, I think that it is ok to satirise religion, just as it is ok to satirise politics.

There seems to be a (seemingly unnoticed) disagreement between whether religion itself should be respected, or simply people's right to be religious. Personally, I think that it is ok to satirise religion, just as it is ok to satirise politics.Couldn't agree more. I don't go rioting & church-burning just because [insert name of] god hates my sexual orientation. So why should they have a problem with me, or others, ridiculing [insert name of] religion

I respect people's right to be religious, but I still think it's silly.

I think someone's right to be religious should be respected just like someone's right to be a Star Wars fan. Not everyone like's Star Wars, some people even think it's the stupidest thing ever, but they don't pull all the people with Wookie costumes out in the street and burn them, or go on about how "you can like Star Wars, but keep it in your own house far from me..........

okay, super bad comparison......

so, anyway. People's rights should be respected whether or not you agree with thier choices, I don't see any point in making someone respect someone else's choice though, it's kinda stupid.




I really don't think I added anything.........sorry.

You have th right to be religious

but I can tell you on how crazy it is

Religions, just like democracy and freedom of speech, are ideas and, as such, they should be criticized and attacked. But it should not be an attack or critique against the people holding such ideas.

Where's the option of "Yes, I respect religion, but also respect people's right to mock it"? That'd be my choice.

Religions, just like democracy and freedom of speech, are ideas and, as such, they should be criticized and attacked. But it should not be an attack or critique against the people holding such ideas.
yeah. Thanks.

Where's the option of "Yes, I respect religion, but also respect people's right to mock it"? That'd be my choice.
Here here! "Let Believe and Let Mock!"

I don't mind religious satire at all, even when it's satirising my own religion. In fact, that's the kind of satire I like the most! If you can't have a laugh at your own expensive, you got a major problem.

I think everyone should respect other people's choice to be religious or not, but restricting freedom of expression on the grounds that it may offend someone's religion is ridiculous. It's not really free then, is it? A lot of time you have to want to take offense to take personal offense at some things. Look at Stargate SG-1. If I wanted to, I'm sure I could be really offended by that, but that's pointless so I just sit back and enjoy the explosions and drool over Michael Shanks.

That said, it would be nice if people would grow some damn manners and drop some of the arrogance. But people are arses. What're you gonna do?

Although I'm not religious, I respect religion as a great motivator for social change and unity; for those who follow the same religion. Therein lies the problem; no one can agree on one religion. Although I disagree with the notion that one can't be moral without the guiding light of religion, I totally respect the awesome force that religion has the potential of being.

I respect religion but religous people should not be such pansies about jokes.
*rolls eyes*
Get over yourself.
I respect religion in the fact that it can help people live happier.

Only those christians willing to take one on both cheeks and then give up their shirts and coats.

The rest are dishonest.

I'm a christian but i think its ok if people want to make jokes or cartoons about religion, hey i find a lot of them quite funny.

I respect people who are deserving of respect. I cannot offer respect to those whose ideas are repugnant, who are quick to point out others failings, who set themselves up as moral arbiters against that which they don't understand or respect, themselves.

I have been at the receiving end of offensive comments from those who allege to be representative of higher ideals or purpose. I have also seen those sort of people being the first to cry out against intolerence of their ideals and beliefs.

It's rich, if you can't take the criticism then don't give it out.

I respect the right of people to be religious depending upon their religion (if they're eviscerating people on top of temples...). Equally, I respect the right of those who are not religious to be critical of religion.

What about a simple "Yes" option?

Blasphemous speech/material shouldn't be censored in countries which are supposed to excercise freedom of speech (shouldn't be censored anywhere, but that's utopic thinking). People, however, should think twice before doing that, especially if they criticize a religion known to have extremist factions willing to do anything if someone attacks their religious icons. It's a matter of common sense, considering the consequences of your actions.

PS: I'm Catholic myself.

I respect the right of people to be religious depending upon their religion (if they're eviscerating people on top of temples...). Equally, I respect the right of those who are not religious to be critical of religion.
so people have the right to be relifious if you personally think that what they are doing isn't too bad?

Isn't that forcing your beliefs on others?

so people have the right to be relifious if you personally think that what they are doing isn't too bad?

Isn't that forcing your beliefs on others?Nope. It's simply stating "Your right to exercise your religious ideas ends when you put other people in harms way". I completely agree with that, and not just about religion.

Religion is a completely personal thing, so I have no respect for someone's religious views.

But, since religion is a completely personal thing, I have great respect for someone's right to hold religious views.

As a christian, I respect people's faith. I respect their spirituality.

I don't respect religion. Religion is the manipilation of the faith of the many by an elite few. It's a political exercise of mnd control.

Nope. It's simply stating "Your right to exercise your religious ideas ends when you put other people in harms way". I completely agree with that, and not just about religion.
I think I am in a bad mood today........anyway, I can agree that there are limits to one's rights, but where someone sets those limits is very important, most pro-lifers believe that an abortion is where the line should be drawn on a woman's reproductive rights, because they believe it harms another human, the argument they get back is "quit trying to force your beliefs on me", why should the same not apply to religion? Why should it matter what you think is wrong if they don't?

Nope. It's simply stating "Your right to exercise your religious ideas ends when you put other people in harms way". I completely agree with that, and not just about religion.
Oh. And here I thought he only respected people whose religion involved evisceration at the top of a temple...

some religions don't deserve respect.

do i respect the apostate polygamous mormon sects that manipulate 16 year old girls into marrying their 87 year old "prophet"? NO

do i respect the southern baptist convention? yes (but not as much as i used to)

some sects deserve to be mocked. all should have enough of a sense of themselves to be OK with being mocked on occasion.

so my answer is "it depends"

Oh. And here I thought he only respected people whose religion involved evisceration at the top of a temple...

I certainly respect them. :)

There seems to be a (seemingly unnoticed) disagreement between whether religion itself should be respected, or simply people's right to be religious. Personally, I think that it is ok to satirise religion, just as it is ok to satirise politics.
I respect anyone's right to believe whatever they choose to believe. Just as I respect anyone's right to speak out against whatever beliefs they choose. IMHO, both are absolutely necessary for any society which claims to support freedom.

There seems to be a (seemingly unnoticed) disagreement between whether religion itself should be respected, or simply people's right to be religious. Personally, I think that it is ok to satirise religion, just as it is ok to satirise politics.

Quite. Organised religion, no respect for the institutions. Peoples wish to be religious, go right ahead, believe what you will, just don't let it impinge on me.

As a christian, I respect people's faith. I respect their spirituality.

I don't respect religion. Religion is the manipilation of the faith of the many by an elite few. It's a political exercise of mnd control.
Ditto. I can respect the faith somebody holds in a differing religion without actually respecting that religion.

Only those christians willing to take one on both cheeks and then give up their shirts and coats.

The rest are dishonest.
If you're referring to the "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" idea, please allow me to educate you a little bit. It doesn't literally mean "If somebody slaps your cheek, let him slap the other one", it's more of the idea behind attacks of character. We're talking about a world where people were predominantly right-handed, because left-handedness was still (for whatever reason) considered wicked and strange. If somebody right-handed hits you on the right cheek, it's a backhand, which is usually more of an assault on your dignity. In the Eastern world, that was the highest insult. So it's not so much that Christians are to allow the physical slaps to happen -- it's that they bear the indignity without retort from bitterness or simple retaliation.

basicly I'll support anyones right to believe anything they like.

as long as it doesn't affect me.

don't convert me and I won't convert you (so its five-nil to me...) so i've left, sikhs, jews, hindus, pagans, shintoists, etc alone

only christians, muslims and harry christnas seem to want to convert me so their the only ones I convert back (all hail athiesm....)

I don't think religion should be discriminated it should be treated a bit like being disabled, i.e. you don't mock them for their beliefs and don't do anything about them as long as they don't harm anyone apart from themselves.

so don't have pictures of jesus having sex with Hitler don't show pictures of mohammed (to give you an idea of how horrifying the thing was for them (except more so)) but you can stop people doing certain jobs e.g. probably a bad idea to have a fundementalist anything in a gay and lesbian centre or doing stem cell reasearch or in and abortion clinic. (or if I had my way any form of science)

its not because I think your evil or anything its just i'd prefer to have a world view based on something other then the voices in my head (or in someone elses head, or because they were off their face on ergot or something)

Only those christians willing to take one on both cheeks and then give up their shirts and coats.

The rest are dishonest.

"Turn the other cheek" in Christ's time would not have equated to "get hit on your other cheek too." By turning the other cheek, you would prevent the person from hitting you again. Why? Because it was illegal in Jewish society to gesture or touch someone with the left hand - the unclean hand. On top of that, the only way to hit a slave (or woman) was to backhand them. If you slapped them or punched them, that was an automatic statement that they were on the same social level with you - and could thus legally fight back. So, if someone backhands you with their right hand, and you "turn the other cheek", they cannot backhand you with it again. They cannot backhand you with their left hand - as that is illegal. And do you think they are actually going to do anything to suggest you are at their same social level? It was a form of passive resistance.

Giving your inner garment when sued for your outer garment was also a form of passive resistance. In Christ's time, the person shamed by nudity was not the nude person, but anyone who saw the nude person. Thus, if you started giving up all of your clothing in a court, you would have shamed everyone there, including the person suing you, the judge, etc.


As for the original question, I think that one *should* be sensitive to the religion of another, if they are aware of its taboos and such. But I also think that people shouldn't make dead baby jokes. I'm not going to try and keep them from telling them, however, and I will not try to stop someone who wishes to insult another's religion. I probably just won't associate with them.

Edit: Reordered paragraphs to make more sense.

I think I am in a bad mood today........anyway, I can agree that there are limits to one's rights, but where someone sets those limits is very important, most pro-lifers believe that an abortion is where the line should be drawn on a woman's reproductive rights, because they believe it harms another human, the argument they get back is "quit trying to force your beliefs on me", why should the same not apply to religion? Why should it matter what you think is wrong if they don't?I think it has something to do with the holes over on inane-lane. Some people occationally fall in them, while others purposefully march into to them with lemming-like determination.

For example, Christian supremacists (or whatever you'd like to call them), can't very well argue that eggs & sperm are sacred. Our bodies rid themselves of the things on a regular basis, with or without our approval.
So instead they argue that human life is a minute blob of ooze. Not that it can think or feel, or can even be described as "it", but..

So the argument they're trying to make is whether women have the right to rid themselves of unwanted organic matter - like cancer, for example - and incidentially this is exactly the sort of behaviour that is potentially harmful to innocent bystanders, who want nothing to do with the religious supremacists.

So should they be outlawed? Not if you ask me. I think it's a slippery slope to outlaw people's desire to harm themself.
I don't think people should listen to them though. They have no more right forcing their irrational beliefs on others than I do. And really, there are no public stonings of neo-Con's & religious supremacists, so obviously I'm not forcing my beliefs & fantasies on others.

I respect religion. Of course someone has the right to believe whatever theory he thinks existence was compiled through.

I'm just annoyed if I make an insult to a diety and riligious people say: 'I'm christian, don't do that.' It says to me: 'I can'r have it if people don't like the people I like, everyone has to like the people that I like...' Let's face it. What God did was create inferiour little puny beings in comparishment to himself and told them to love him and if they didn't, or didn't live the way he wanted they'll get punished. God is a very selfabsorbed, arrogant and absolutist person.

If people say that someone I admire is a dick I just ask them to present arguements and innitiate a debate. It's stupid not to be able to handle that not everyone likes what you like. I was beaten up once for saying that I didn't like the backstreet boys, the girl that has beaten me up got punished because she crossed the line there. If I make an insult at God to a conservative christian and I get beaten up they'll tell me it's my fault for provoking. What makes God different? I don't think a lot of people can answer that question, it's just a feeling.

Luckally I'm befriend with some very open minded and intelligent christians who have a scientific back up for their ideas and can handle insults against God.

I have nothing but hate for religion. I don't want people to join Borg colonies but I don't hate them for doing so. Religion whether people like it or not is always political. Religion is mostly wrong and is bound in superstition. Religions poltical ideas are wrong. By far the worse thing about religion is it's disrespect for logic. The ignorant faith ( the Borg program ) is far too important to religion to ever consider reason.

Evil malevalent snip

I really don't think I added anything.........sorry.

Don't be sorry you added something. I liked it.

Here here! "Let Believe and Let Mock!"

I third and or fourth or fifth that maybe even sixth it.

so people have the right to be relifious if you personally think that what they are doing isn't too bad?

Isn't that forcing your beliefs on others?

Yes and what's your problem with that?

so don't have pictures of jesus having sex with Hitler don't show pictures of mohammed (to give you an idea of how horrifying the thing was for them (except more so))

Actually I'd like to see that picture. You could never cuase the Christians in educated countries to riot over a picture.

I have nothing but hate for religion. I don't want people to join Borg colonies but I don't hate them for doing so. Religion whether people like it or not is always political. Religion is mostly wrong and is bound in superstition. Religions poltical ideas are wrong. By far the worse thing about religion is it's disrespect for logic. The ignorant faith ( the Borg program ) is far too important to religion to ever consider reason.

Hah!

*sighs*

That really brings back memories of my early teens. Ahhh, the impetuousness of youth.

Don't be sorry you added something. I liked it.
I would like to add that I do like Star Wars, but it's not easy to be a Star Wars fan in a Star Trek world, it's apparently impossible to like both (I do, I don't see them in competition because they are completely different things, like believing in God and believing in Evolution it's possible to believe both, even if everyone can't)

I have nothing but hate for religion. I don't want people to join Borg colonies but I don't hate them for doing so.

I wouldn't want people to join Borg colonies either. Of course, I thought the Borg was just a Star Trek thing. Where are these "Borg colonies."

Religion whether people like it or not is always political.[/quote

Mine isn't.

[quote]Religion is mostly wrong and is bound in superstition.

Define superstition.

Religions poltical ideas are wrong.

What are "religion's political ideas"?

By far the worse thing about religion is it's disrespect for logic.

How does religion disprespect logic? Mine relies upon it.

The ignorant faith ( the Borg program ) is far too important to religion to ever consider reason.

There is no such thing as "ignorant faith." If one must be ignorant to have faith, then one cannot actually have faith at all. And reason is a big part of my religion, and many others.

And reason is a big part of my religion, and many others.

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this but, "what's your religion?"

Mine's agnostic deism so there's actually some logic involved. Plus we stay quiet and wait for the rest of you to kill yourselves so we can take over. It's an ancient plot that seems to be working fairly well.

BTW: When I googled "Jesus having sex with Hitler" I got this:

http://www.thunderbirdtheatre.com/images/bth_small.jpg

I find it humorous not horrifying, Jesus probably did want some man on man action, I mean he's wearing a dress!

There seems to be a (seemingly unnoticed) disagreement between whether religion itself should be respected, or simply people's right to be religious. Personally, I think that it is ok to satirise religion, just as it is ok to satirise politics.
I respect every individual's right to be superstitious, but I don't respect superstition at all. It's the same way I feel about racism: I believe every individual has the right to choose to be racist, and I will defend their right to do so, but I believe it is a pathetic and disgraceful choice.

I respect 99% of religions, but I don't respect ones that encourage terrorism and riot over cartoons.

I respect every individual's right to be superstitious, but I don't respect superstition at all. It's the same way I feel about racism: I believe every individual has the right to choose to be racist, and I will defend their right to do so, but I believe it is a pathetic and disgraceful choice.
hey that's what I was trying to say. I just want people to respect my right to be religious, it's unfair to expect them to respect my religion. There is a difference.

I respect religion about as much as I respect the fat lazy guy who never pays his rent and spends all day on the couch watching Wheel of Fortune eating Chunky Soup.

I respect "ideal religion" without necessarily respecting the religious establishment that represents it. I make good fun of pretty much anything, except God myself, but I think people should be allowed to make fun of God - at thier own risk. I mean, if God is really God, then he should be perfectly capable of sticking up for himself, no? They'll get their fair dues in good time.

I respect people's right to be religious, but I still think it's silly.

beat me to it
i would have probably used acknowledge instead of respets but same thing more or less.

I hate religious people more than I hate religion.

I respect religion about as much as I respect the fat lazy guy who never pays his rent and spends all day on the couch watching Wheel of Fortune eating Chunky Soup.

What'd I ever do to you?

What'd I ever do to you?

I said religion, not religious people.

Ideally religion is a beautiful concept, much like pacifism. But in the real world neither are practical.

I hate religious people more than I hate religion.

We love you too, sweety.

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this but, "what's your religion?"

Broadly? Christianity. From a more focussed perspective? My religion is my religion. There is no name for it.

I have respect for those who are religious, but don't force it on me.
I have little respect for the centralized religious factories who feel that they're teachings is the only one and will not look at itself and see how it is NOT meeting the needs of those who would like it. Yes, this includes all of the western religions including, but not limited to, Christianity and Islam.
The actual difference between the two of them is very little, but it is enough to cause problems in the world like we see today. Religion has been the biggest causes of conflict throughout history and the cause of millions of deaths.
If the US FDA had to approve it as a drug, it would NOT get approval or be pulled from the shelves shortyly after it's release due how dangerous it is to the health of the public.

I have little respect for the centralized religious factories who feel that they're teachings is the only one and will not look at itself and see how it is NOT meeting the needs of those who would like it. Yes, this includes all of the western religions including, but not limited to, Christianity and Islam.

Neither Christianity nor Islam are "centralized religious factories." Indeed, neither of them can be said to be "centralized" at all. Now, there are various sects of both that do things that I do not agree with - and people who use them to gain power over others. But neither those sects nor those people make up the entirety of either religion.

There is no such thing as "ignorant faith." If one must be ignorant to have faith, then one cannot actually have faith at all. And reason is a big part of my religion, and many others.

Hmm ok name that faith.

There is one faith and or lack of it that I do respect. http://universist.org

It’s great if you need it, just don’t force it on me.

I respect any religion that doesn't


Invade on my liberties (safety, freedom of speech)
Respect that I don't have to believe in their point of view
Try to convert me.
Try to force me to live by their rules (applies to changing the law to make the US more Christian or the attempts to make people live by Sharia laws)


Any religion that can accept that God doesn't need you to do his / her work is fine by me. If God wanted me to believe or do anything, I believe by definition the Omnipotent god does not need anyone (even as a tool) to accomplish that.
I am told I cannot phantom what God's plan is, well neither can anyone else so really I could be right as much as anyone else.

course I could be wrong , all I ask is that you let me be wrong.
cheers
Steven

Broadly? Christianity. From a more focussed perspective? My religion is my religion. There is no name for it.

i think its time we define what religion is
any1?

It's difficult to respect religious people when it is so blatantly obvious that their beleifs are completely unfounded if not completely false. Religion is just one manifestation of many people's inability to think for themsleves. I immediately suspect smallmindedness when I hear someone holds traditional religious beliefs.

I know I just coined a new term, but I don't know what else to call a person's inability to look beyond their immediate surroundings and emotional beliefs to understand the world in a rational way.