NationStates Jolt Archive

So I'm sitting here eating a BLT, and it occurs to me that Muslims cannot eat pork. It's something I've never really thought about, but now that I do, it seems a little silly. (as silly as only eating fish on Fridays)

So my question is why can't Muslims eat pork, how long has it been this way, and what would be the penalty if you did?

Probably the same reason Jews don't eat pork - it was traditionally a bad idea to eat pork in the desert, because it easily got parasites.

I still think it's a little silly that both Judaism and Islam doesn't just abandon it now - it's no longer applicable, and do you think God really cares what kind of meat you eat?

Jews can't eat shellfish. Can Muslims?

Jews can't eat shellfish.

Doesn't stop them eating lobster on Seinfeld.

Did that anyone else notice that as a bit strange?

Probably the same reason Jews don't eat pork - it was traditionally a bad idea to eat pork in the desert, because it easily got parasites.

I still think it's a little silly that both Judaism and Islam doesn't just abandon it now - it's no longer applicable, and do you think God really cares what kind of meat you eat?

It's not a tradition, I believe it was written in the Qu'ran not to eat pig.

I'm not exactly sure why we cannot eat pig, but all I know is their disgusting.

So my question is why can't Muslims eat pork, how long has it been this way, and what would be the penalty if you did?

Says so in Qu'ran. Basically amounts to keeping with Leviticus ch. 11 with the added addendum not to eat carnivores.

As for "why", two reasons:

1] They eat anything. Anything.

2] We didn't create them. When the Creator tells you not to eat part of the Creation, you listen and obey.

My one big question is why Christians can eat pork. Can't they read the Leviticus?

Jews can't eat shellfish. Can Muslims?

Neither can Christians.
Well, ok. Neither can Christians who use Leviticus to condemn certain things. An important disctinction.

Says so in Qu'ran. Basically amounts to keeping with Leviticus ch. 11 with the added addendum not to eat carnivores.

Well carnivors aren't well known for chewing the cud anyway. So that was prolly a bit redundant.

Where does islam stand with whitefish salad and onion on a bagel?

Doesn't stop them eating lobster on Seinfeld.

Did that anyone else notice that as a bit strange?
Not really. I have some Jewish friends and, boy! do they like their pork and shellfish!

As it was said, the prohibition came because piggies get parasites very easily in the desert, also shellfish don't last long. People must have noticed that when someone ate those things in the desert they got sick and sometimes died, and must have thought that it was God punishing them.

Doesn't stop them eating lobster on Seinfeld.

Did that anyone else notice that as a bit strange?

No. There's a huge difference between "can't" and "shouldn't".

ok...im a muslim...
and its true that we are not allowed to eat pork, and it was stated in the prophets age, and was in the Quran, and no one knew why, lately scientists foudn out that pork has some kind of worm that damages your body if it gets in your body, and its true that Jews have the same thing...

and there really isnt like a death penalty or anything, its like lying, what penalty do you get???, it just makes you feal bad, that you disobeyed god, plus there are some rules that god puts, to tests how good you are and strong, and that you should blindly follow him , if you really trusts him...

and i dunno if muslims are allowed to eat shelfish, i know that we arent allowed to eat anything that previously eats meat, (lions, dogs, cats etc..) and anything with hoofs, (Asses, Horses, etc...)

and we are not allowed to drink Wine or any form of alcohol, AT ALL...

http://www.truechristian.com/img/lobsterboy2.jpg

My one big question is why Christians can eat pork. Can't they read the Leviticus?
They believe that Jesus's coming changed the rules somewhat.

Well carnivors aren't well known for chewing the cud anyway. So that was prolly a bit redundant.

It was probably thrown in because people were finding new critters all the time and seeing if they were tastey. Like alligator.

Where does islam stand with whitefish salad and onion on a bagel?

Anyone who doesn't like such things are Infidels and should be skinned alive and fed to donkeys. (7:168)

:p Says so in Qu'ran. Basically amounts to keeping with Leviticus ch. 11 with the added addendum not to eat carnivores.

As for "why", two reasons:

1] They eat anything. Anything.

2] We didn't create them. When the Creator tells you not to eat part of the Creation, you listen and obey.
OK, now I'm REALLY confused. So who created cows and chickens?



Besides, if you want to get technical, cows eat their own afterbirth, which certainly isn't a plant. (shudders in disgust)

My one big question is why Christians can eat pork. Can't they read the Leviticus?
Only when it concerns 'teh gay'

They believe that Jesus's coming changed the rules somewhat.
Not all believe that (see Adventists). And the rest will never say just how much they changed, and Jesus did not make it clear.

:p
OK, now I'm REALLY confused. So who created cows and chickens?

Allah ... but those were permitted for food by Leviticus ch. 11.

Besides, if you want to get technical, cows eat their own afterbirth, which certainly isn't a plant. (shudders in disgust)

Yes, well ... if Allah says it's ok, then pass me the steak sauce.

Only when it concerns 'teh gay'
There you go. Good point.

Armadillo has a shell and it eats ants. I wonder if that's included in the prohibition. It's mighty tasty, it would be a shame if it does.

Turtles also eat anything.

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/images/468x60/pinchsuckburn.gif (http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/)

My one big question is why Christians can eat pork. Can't they read the Leviticus?
Caus Jesus said something along the lines of

It is not what goes into a man’s mouth that corrupts or defiles him, it is what comes out of his mouth that corrupts and defiles

No. There's a huge difference between "can't" and "shouldn't".

Yeah, but I mean the way they never even commented on it as I remeber - they just did it. I'm aware that some Jews are very liberal when it comes to interpreting restrictions like this and others are very harsh, I saw a documentry about it. It just seemed strange not to discuss it, or at least crack a joke out of it.

Maybe they just didn't want to draw attention to the fact.

Not all believe that (see Adventists). And the rest will never say just how much they changed, and Jesus did not make it clear.
True. I was just talking about the mainstream in general. You could get much more specific than what I said.

Caus Jesus said something along the lines of <jesus snipped>

That was just Jesus' way of saying that man on man fellatio is a-ok.

That was just Jesus' way of saying that man on man fellatio is a-ok.
Ok, but it also provides a loophole that allows Christians to eat bacon cheeseburgers served between crabcakes instead of bread.

Maybe they just didn't want to draw attention to the fact.

Aye ... well Seinfeld isn't a "Jew for the sake of Jew" comedian. It's clear he's Jewish, but his humor isn't like Mel Brooks, who pokes fun of being Jewish constantly.

So I'm sitting here eating a BLT, and it occurs to me that Muslims cannot eat pork. It's something I've never really thought about, but now that I do, it seems a little silly. (as silly as only eating fish on Fridays)

So my question is why can't Muslims eat pork, how long has it been this way, and what would be the penalty if you did?Yah. Funny how Muslims are Jewish that way ain't it? But then, the Jews didn't ask that Piglet be excised from Britian either.

http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/Cartoons/02-02-2006.gif

Allah ... but those were permitted for food by Leviticus ch. 11.



Yes, well ... if Allah says it's ok, then pass me the steak sauce.
What about fish? 99.9% of them are carnivores. Can you eat them?


EDIT - And technically, fouls eat insects, making them carnivores, so can you eat chicken or turkey?

What about fish? 99.9% of them are carnivores. Can you eat them?

As long as it has fins and scales, it's okie dokie.

EDIT - And technically, fouls eat insects, making them carnivores, so can you eat chicken or turkey?

Yes ... and stop looking for technicalities. Just read Leviticus ch. 11.

Yah. Funny how Muslims are Jewish that way ain't it? But then, the Jews didn't ask that Piglet be excised from Britian either.

Amusing little cartoon aside, did Muslims ask that Piglet be excised from Britain?

You know ... David Berkowitz was a Jew, that doesn't make all Jews serial killers. A couple of ignorant and indignant Muslims asking for something stupid does not an entire people make.

Amusing little cartoon aside, did Muslims ask that Piglet be excised from Britain?

You know ... David Berkowitz was a Jew, that doesn't make all Jews serial killers. A couple of ignorant and indignant Muslims asking for something stupid does not an entire people make.
I know that. I just like the cartoon. And given that Leviticus IS the (pardon) genisis of the proscription and not even the most radicaly Orthodox Zealot has ever called the depiction of trayf "insensitive", I thought it was a valid point.

Amusing little cartoon aside, did Muslims ask that Piglet be excised from Britain?

You know ... David Berkowitz was a Jew, that doesn't make all Jews serial killers. A couple of ignorant and indignant Muslims asking for something stupid does not an entire people make.
I don't know about that. It's not like it's just Berkowitz. Remember Joel Rifkin?

Amusing little cartoon aside, did Muslims ask that Piglet be excised from Britain?yes, something like thatThe latest assault came in the benefits department at Dudley Council, West Midlands, where employees were told that they were no longer allowed to have any representations of pigs at their desks. Some had little porcine porcelain figurines. Others had toys or calendars of cute little pigs. One had a tissue box depicting Winnie the Pooh and Piglet. All of this had to go, not because of new some new anti-kitsch ordinance, but because Muslims might be offended — particularly now, what with Ramadan beginning. How could a pious Muslim in the Dudley Council, West Midlands benefits department redouble his efforts to conform his life to the will of Allah with all these…pigs staring him in the face? It was an insult!

This was not the first anti-pig initiative in Britain. In Derby, Muslims took offense at plans to restore the statue of the Florentine Boar, which had stood in the Derby Park for over a hundred years before it was decapitated by a German bomb in 1942. Recent plans to rebuild the Boar’s head ran into resistance from local Muslims. Suman Gupta, a local Council member, warned: “If the statue of the boar is put back at the Arboretum I have been told that it will not be there the next day, or at least it won’t be in the same condition the next day at least. We should not have the boar because it is offensive to some of the groups in the immediate area.” However, after more than 2,000 locals signed petitions in favor of the Boar, local authorities decided to bend to public opinion and go ahead with their original plans to restore the statue.



Elsewhere in England pigs did not fare so well. In March 2003, Barbara Harris, head teacher at Park Road Junior Infant and Nursery School in Batley, West Yorkshire, banned stories mentioning pigs. “Recently,” Harris explained, “I have been aware of an occasion where young Muslim children in class were read stories about pigs. We try to be sensitive to the fact that for Muslims talk of pigs is offensive.” Harris didn’t mention whether or not she intended to allow Muslim students to possess copies of the Qur’an at the school, despite its repeated mention of how Allah cursed Jews and turned them into apes and pigs (2:62-65; 5:59-60; 7:166).

Yes ... and stop looking for technicalities. Just read Leviticus ch. 11.
You don't have to be an accusatory cock about it. I was trying to broaden my knowledge of Islam, and try to get a better understanding of those things I know little of.

But if you'd rather just brush me off as someone trying to "look for technicalities" (for what fucking reason, I don't know) then go ahead. Just one more bad impression of a Muslim. *shrugs*

Ok, so I went and read Leviticus Chpt. 11

Now, not only am I confused, because if you add it all up, it says not to eat ANYTHING at all, it is in the Christian bible. So Muslims listen to the Christian bible?


This thread has thouroughly confuesed me to a point I didn't think possible. :headbang:

As long as it has fins and scales, it's okie dokie.

The great swordfish controversy. :eek:

Ok, so I went and read Leviticus Chpt. 11

Now, not only am I confused, because if you add it all up, it says not to eat ANYTHING at all, it is in the Christian bible. So Muslims listen to the Christian bible?


This thread has thouroughly confuesed me to a point I didn't think possible. :headbang:ask Allah to help you out of your self created maze. ;)

Muslims do eat bacon: why else would the Iranian trade embargo on the Danish be inflicting harm? I doubt that the Iranians drink a lot of vodka.

ask Allah to help you out of your self created maze. ;)
I tried. He was too busy bitching at me for the BLT I was eating, and the mass of cartoons on my hard drive dedicated to making fun of him and Jesus. :D

dp

I'm trying to have a muslim friend to eat pork.

The bitch just won't do it :mad: Its horrible to order a pizza and not being able to put pork derivatives in it!

Any religious argument that I can give her to eat pork?

I'm trying to have a muslim friend to eat pork.

The bitch just won't do it :mad: Its horrible to order a pizza and not being able to put pork derivatives in it!

Any religious argument that I can give her to eat pork?
Yeah, religion is just a tool used by people to control the masses. Tell her that if she's a good person, it doesn't matter what she eats, so stfu and eat some bacon. *nods*

I'm trying to have a muslim friend to eat pork.

The bitch just won't do it :mad: Its horrible to order a pizza and not being able to put pork derivatives in it!

Any religious argument that I can give her to eat pork?

Doesn't sound like you're a very good friend to me.

I'm trying to have a muslim friend to eat pork.

The bitch just won't do it :mad: Its horrible to order a pizza and not being able to put pork derivatives in it!

Any religious argument that I can give her to eat pork?
You can try the whole "god is merciful and will forgive you" argument. Like when Emo Philips wanted a bike and prayed every day for a new one. He finally realized that God doesn't work that way so he stole one and asked for forgiveness.

You can try the whole "god is merciful and will forgive you" argument. Like when Emo Philips wanted a bike and prayed every day for a new one. He finally realized that God doesn't work that way so he stole one and asked for forgiveness.

priceless...

where's the mastercard commercial?:D

I'm trying to have a muslim friend to eat pork.

The bitch just won't do it :mad: Its horrible to order a pizza and not being able to put pork derivatives in it!

Any religious argument that I can give her to eat pork?
Look, I'm neither Muslim nor Jewish (nor charismatic Christian), and I don't eat pork as well. Pork sucks.

I tried. He was too busy bitching at me for the BLT I was eating, and the mass of cartoons on my hard drive dedicated to making fun of him and Jesus. :D:D :D

What I meant to say is that.. in real terms..

Jews, Muslims and Christians are almost the same religion..

_ooo_
| |
/\ /\
MuhammeJewsus

That is Why JEWS and MUSLIMS do not eat Pork.

We Christians are lazy when it comes to reading or following Yahve/Allah/Jeohva rules..

We are the lazy kid in the Family.. Lucky for us we are also the Bigger/stronger kid. ;)

Look, I'm neither Muslim nor Jewish (nor charismatic Christian), and I don't eat pork as well. Pork sucks.
I am insulted by your blasphemy and officially call for your nation of origin to punish you. Preferably by beheading you after you make a formal appology to Pork Products (grease be upon them)

Now I'm off to burn down a KFC.

:D :D

What I meant to say is that.. in real terms..

Jews, Muslims and Christians are almost the same religion..

_ooo_
| |
/\ /\
MuhammeJewsus

That is Why JEWS and MUSLIMS do not eat Pork.

We Christians are lazy when it comes to reading or following Yahve/Allah/Jeohva rules..

We are the lazy kid in the Family.. Lucky for us we are also the Bigger/stronger kid. ;)

*Israel flexes its muscles menacingly at that comment*

I am insulted by your blasphemy and officially call for your nation of origin to punish you. Preferably by beheading you after you make a formal appology to Pork Products (grease be upon them)

Now I'm off to burn down a KFC.
You will not silence the tru

slash

Doesn't sound like you're a very good friend to me.I think he is using some sarcasm

I think he is using some sarcasm

Unless the whole post was sarcastic, I stand by my point. After I decided to go Kosher, I've had several (ex-)friends try to force meat/dairy mixtures on me, so maybe I'm a bit over sensitive.

Now, not only am I confused, because if you add it all up, it says not to eat ANYTHING at all, it is in the Christian bible. So Muslims listen to the Christian bible?

Leviticus is part of Torah. Muslims do listen to Torah.

And it's quite clear ...

Basics:

1. Certain animals may not be eaten at all. This restriction includes the flesh, organs, eggs and milk of the forbidden animals.
2. Of the animals that may be eaten, the birds and mammals must be killed in accordance with Jewish law.
3. All blood must be drained from the meat or broiled out of it before it is eaten.
4. Certain parts of permitted animals may not be eaten.
5. Meat (the flesh of birds and mammals) cannot be eaten with dairy. Fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables and grains can be eaten with either meat or dairy. (According to some views, fish may not be eaten with meat).
6. Utensils that have come into contact with meat may not be used with dairy, and vice versa. Utensils that have come into contact with non-kosher food may not be used with kosher food. This applies only where the contact occurred while the food was hot.
7. Grape products made by non-Jews may not be eaten.

You may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud.

You may eat anything that has fins and scales.

For birds, the criteria is less clear. The Torah lists forbidden birds (Lev. 11:13-19; Deut. 14:11-18), but does not specify why these particular birds are forbidden. All of the birds on the list are birds of prey or scavengers, thus the rabbis inferred that this was the basis for the distinction. Other birds are permitted, such as chicken, geese, ducks and turkeys.

Of the "winged swarming things" (winged insects), a few are specifically permitted (Lev. 11:22), but the Sages are no longer certain which ones they are, so all have been forbidden.

Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden.

The sciatic nerve and its adjoining blood vessels may not be eaten.

A certain kind of fat, known as chelev, which surrounds the vital organs and the liver, may not be eaten.

On three separate occasions, the Torah tells us not to "boil a kid in its mother's milk." (Ex. 23:19; Ex. 34:26; Deut. 14:21). The Oral Torah explains that this passage prohibits eating meat and dairy together.

Utensils (pots, pans, plates, flatware, etc., etc.) must also be kosher. A utensil picks up the kosher "status" (meat, dairy, pareve, or treyf) of the food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it, and transmits that status back to the next food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it. Thus, if you cook chicken soup in a saucepan, the pan becomes meat. If you thereafter use the same saucepan to heat up some warm milk, the fleishig status of the pan is transmitted to the milk, and the milchig status of the milk is transmitted to the pan, making both the pan and the milk a forbidden mixture.

Dishwashers are a kashrut problem. If you are going to use a dishwasher in a kosher home, you either need to have separate dish racks or you need to run the dishwasher in between meat and dairy loads.



Clear enough?

You don't have to be an accusatory cock about it. I was trying to broaden my knowledge of Islam, and try to get a better understanding of those things I know little of.

But if you'd rather just brush me off as someone trying to "look for technicalities" (for what fucking reason, I don't know) then go ahead. Just one more bad impression of a Muslim. *shrugs*

Wow! Sensitive.

I'd better put up my flame retardant embassies.

Any religious argument that I can give her to eat pork?

Yes ...

Drop her out into the wilderness and starve her for a few days with no hope of rescue and a salami. She can eat pork if it is to save her life.

You can't, however, put a gun to her head and order her to eat pork to obtain the same results. She would have to let you shoot her.

That's about it.

I'm trying to have a muslim friend to eat pork.

The bitch just won't do it :mad: Its horrible to order a pizza and not being able to put pork derivatives in it!

Any religious argument that I can give her to eat pork?

My brother got a vegetarian friend to eat a scotch egg (A boiled egg wrapped in a layer of sausage meat covered with bread crumbs) by claiming it didn't contain meat. It wasn't that evil of him - he was only vegetarian because of his girlfriend.

Dunno if you have scotch eggs where you come from though.

My brother got a vegetarian friend to eat a scotch egg (A boiled egg wrapped in a layer of sausage meat covered with bread crumbs) by claiming it didn't contain meat. It wasn't that evil of him - he was only vegetarian because of his girlfriend.

Dunno if you have scotch eggs where you come from though.

I love scotch eggs.
Only I can't use pork sausage in them. Ground turkey seasoned right makes a fine substitute.

and we are not allowed to drink Wine or any form of alcohol, AT ALL...
Explains so much.

yes, something like that

The middle story was wrong, in fact it was the council which was refusing to put up the statue because they were terrified of causing offense, the vast majority of local muslims actually supported restoring the boar statue as it was a part of the local heritage.

So overall none of those stories was the result of complaining Muslims, it was the fault of stupid council employees/teachers who think that Muslims spontaneously explode if they're even slightly peeved.

I have a Hindu friend who doesn't eat Beef. Although he's not particularly religious, and his parents don't make him do it, he says he just doesn't like it.

The last time he tried it he was four years old...

In other words: Religions make people do silly things.

But in this particular pork-case, yeah, it's because pork easily goes bad in warm climates, so conveniently the people who wrote the religious texts incorporated that tradition.

I believe that muslims are allowed to eat shellfish. At a muslim run restaurant in Syria where they served neither alchohol nor pork, on religious grounds, I was cheerfully offered a plate of kalimari, prawns, and various other (certainly not kosher) treats. I've read most of (admittedly not all) the qur'an as part of my studies, and have not yet come across any mention of shellfish...(although knowing the habit that certain 7th Century Arabic words have of having at least 16 meanings each, who can tell!?)


The reason Christians don't follow Leviticus's rules on eating stuff goes back to Acts 10:9-15, where Peter has a vision, while he's very hungry, and he sees a bunch of "four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air" appear. A voice tells him to eat them, and he says back "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." And then a voice says to him "What God has cleansed you must not call common". This happens three times. Many christians take this to mean that what was once called unclean is now ok.

There's also Pauls letter to the Romans 14:14 "I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is notheing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean" This seems to me to mean "eat what you like unless you think it's minging".

I have a Hindu friend who doesn't eat Beef. Although he's not particularly religious, and his parents don't make him do it, he says he just doesn't like it.Hindus dont eat Cow meat.. do they?

I tried ham and pork at school...last time I had a decent amount to judge it, I was in the first grade.

9 years later I still don't blame us for banning it. Tastes like crap.

The alcohol though...*chugs*

Hindus dont eat Cow meat.. do they?
Ask a Hindu, but as I understand it, Cows are holy animals and so they don't get hurt.
But that may just be a particular kind of Hindu. In some temples rats are holy, in others it's monkeys. So they are allowed to do whatever they want there (like stealing people's food).

Look, I'm neither Muslim nor Jewish (nor charismatic Christian), and I don't eat pork as well. Pork sucks.

wrong......pork is the food of the god's..they just want to hoard it all for themselves!

nothing like a scrapple filled plate with some bacon and link sides.yummmmmy for the tummy...oh a couple of pancakes will do fine too.

hell,i get bacon on my pizza..sounds gross,but it's really good!

wrong......pork is the food of the god's..they just want to hoard it all for themselves!

nothing like a scrapple filled plate with some bacon and link sides.yummmmmy for the tummy...oh a couple of pancakes will do fine too.

hell,i get bacon on my pizza..sounds gross,but it's really good!


mmmmmmm ... heart attack at 35 ... tastey. :D

Leviticus is part of Torah. Muslims do listen to Torah.

And it's quite clear ...

Basics:

1. Certain animals may not be eaten at all. This restriction includes the flesh, organs, eggs and milk of the forbidden animals.
2. Of the animals that may be eaten, the birds and mammals must be killed in accordance with Jewish law.
3. All blood must be drained from the meat or broiled out of it before it is eaten.
4. Certain parts of permitted animals may not be eaten.
5. Meat (the flesh of birds and mammals) cannot be eaten with dairy. Fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables and grains can be eaten with either meat or dairy. (According to some views, fish may not be eaten with meat).
6. Utensils that have come into contact with meat may not be used with dairy, and vice versa. Utensils that have come into contact with non-kosher food may not be used with kosher food. This applies only where the contact occurred while the food was hot.
7. Grape products made by non-Jews may not be eaten.

You may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud.

You may eat anything that has fins and scales.

For birds, the criteria is less clear. The Torah lists forbidden birds (Lev. 11:13-19; Deut. 14:11-18), but does not specify why these particular birds are forbidden. All of the birds on the list are birds of prey or scavengers, thus the rabbis inferred that this was the basis for the distinction. Other birds are permitted, such as chicken, geese, ducks and turkeys.

Of the "winged swarming things" (winged insects), a few are specifically permitted (Lev. 11:22), but the Sages are no longer certain which ones they are, so all have been forbidden.

Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden.

The sciatic nerve and its adjoining blood vessels may not be eaten.

A certain kind of fat, known as chelev, which surrounds the vital organs and the liver, may not be eaten.

On three separate occasions, the Torah tells us not to "boil a kid in its mother's milk." (Ex. 23:19; Ex. 34:26; Deut. 14:21). The Oral Torah explains that this passage prohibits eating meat and dairy together.

Utensils (pots, pans, plates, flatware, etc., etc.) must also be kosher. A utensil picks up the kosher "status" (meat, dairy, pareve, or treyf) of the food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it, and transmits that status back to the next food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it. Thus, if you cook chicken soup in a saucepan, the pan becomes meat. If you thereafter use the same saucepan to heat up some warm milk, the fleishig status of the pan is transmitted to the milk, and the milchig status of the milk is transmitted to the pan, making both the pan and the milk a forbidden mixture.

Dishwashers are a kashrut problem. If you are going to use a dishwasher in a kosher home, you either need to have separate dish racks or you need to run the dishwasher in between meat and dairy loads.



Clear enough?


holy crap(no pun intended)

i would friggen starve to death following those rules.i can barely understand them..i just eat what tastes good and is easy(read..lazy)to make.

and i dont have a dish washer...but i do have a lazy teenage daughter,and son,that forget how to do dishes on a daily basis.
being a single dad and working,makes it a bit hard to segregate my pile of daily dishes..lol

i was however,burdened with the no meat on friday thing..seeing how i was an altar boy for 10 years...but i still snuck mc'd's every chance i got..now i wish i ate fish like my mom tried to make us eat,instead of filling my gut with fastfood trash.
maybe they got a point?

but pork...you will have to pry my bacon from my cold dead hands(hopefully from a coronary)

wrong......pork is the food of the god's..they just want to hoard it all for themselves!

nothing like a scrapple filled plate with some bacon and link sides.yummmmmy for the tummy...oh a couple of pancakes will do fine too.

hell,i get bacon on my pizza..sounds gross,but it's really good!

Pork has to be one of the most disgusting "food" there is. Muslims and Jews are better off not eating it.

Honestly, besides bacon and similarly processed meat, pig meat just isn't that good. And those can be replaced by good meats, like turkey.

Pork has to be one of the most disgusting "food" there is. Muslims and Jews are better off not eating it.
No, this is:
http://curlygirl.naturlink.pt/holoturia.jpg

yes, something like that
Elsewhere in England pigs did not fare so well. In March 2003, Barbara Harris, head teacher at Park Road Junior Infant and Nursery School in Batley, West Yorkshire, banned stories mentioning pigs. “Recently,” Harris explained, “I have been aware of an occasion where young Muslim children in class were read stories about pigs. We try to be sensitive to the fact that for Muslims talk of pigs is offensive.” Harris didn’t mention whether or not she intended to allow Muslim students to possess copies of the Qur’an at the school, despite its repeated mention of how Allah cursed Jews and turned them into apes and pigs
Oh, does this mean that out of respect for their culture and beliefs and not wanting to offend them, I'll have to change the 'The three little pigs' to 'The three little Jews'?

No, this is:
http://curlygirl.naturlink.pt/holoturia.jpg

On the contrary, it is very healthful, and promotes long life.

Leviticus is part of Torah. Muslims do listen to Torah.

And it's quite clear ...

Basics:

1. Certain animals may not be eaten at all. This restriction includes the flesh, organs, eggs and milk of the forbidden animals.
2. Of the animals that may be eaten, the birds and mammals must be killed in accordance with Jewish law.
3. All blood must be drained from the meat or broiled out of it before it is eaten.
4. Certain parts of permitted animals may not be eaten.
5. Meat (the flesh of birds and mammals) cannot be eaten with dairy. Fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables and grains can be eaten with either meat or dairy. (According to some views, fish may not be eaten with meat).
6. Utensils that have come into contact with meat may not be used with dairy, and vice versa. Utensils that have come into contact with non-kosher food may not be used with kosher food. This applies only where the contact occurred while the food was hot.
7. Grape products made by non-Jews may not be eaten.

You may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud.

You may eat anything that has fins and scales.

For birds, the criteria is less clear. The Torah lists forbidden birds (Lev. 11:13-19; Deut. 14:11-18), but does not specify why these particular birds are forbidden. All of the birds on the list are birds of prey or scavengers, thus the rabbis inferred that this was the basis for the distinction. Other birds are permitted, such as chicken, geese, ducks and turkeys.

Of the "winged swarming things" (winged insects), a few are specifically permitted (Lev. 11:22), but the Sages are no longer certain which ones they are, so all have been forbidden.

Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden.

The sciatic nerve and its adjoining blood vessels may not be eaten.

A certain kind of fat, known as chelev, which surrounds the vital organs and the liver, may not be eaten.

On three separate occasions, the Torah tells us not to "boil a kid in its mother's milk." (Ex. 23:19; Ex. 34:26; Deut. 14:21). The Oral Torah explains that this passage prohibits eating meat and dairy together.

Utensils (pots, pans, plates, flatware, etc., etc.) must also be kosher. A utensil picks up the kosher "status" (meat, dairy, pareve, or treyf) of the food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it, and transmits that status back to the next food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it. Thus, if you cook chicken soup in a saucepan, the pan becomes meat. If you thereafter use the same saucepan to heat up some warm milk, the fleishig status of the pan is transmitted to the milk, and the milchig status of the milk is transmitted to the pan, making both the pan and the milk a forbidden mixture.

Dishwashers are a kashrut problem. If you are going to use a dishwasher in a kosher home, you either need to have separate dish racks or you need to run the dishwasher in between meat and dairy loads.



Clear enough?

I'm guessing you're ashkenazi?

Pork has to be one of the most disgusting "food" there is. Muslims and Jews are better off not eating it.
You've obviously never tried fried cow's intestines then. Or ducks feet. or these delicacies:
http://www.thaibugs.com/images/food5.jpg
cicadas, locusts, mantises, crickets and grasshoppers (deep fried).

On the contrary, it is very healthful, and promotes long life.
Sure, once it's dead and cooked. But just look at it! And if you make it feel uncomfortable it'll shoot you with its intestines!

Sure, once it's dead and cooked. But just look at it! And if you make it feel uncomfortable it'll shoot you with its intestines!

I've only had it cooked. In a nice fish roe sauce.

I <3 the cantonese.

@Demented hamsters, I have also enjoyed fried cows intestines, and ducks feet. And chicken feet too. Braised in Hoisin. That's good stuff.

You've obviously never tried fried cow's intestines then. Or ducks feet. or these delicacies:
http://www.thaibugs.com/images/food5.jpg
cicadas, locusts, mantises, crickets and grasshoppers (deep fried).

I admit I was thinking of the more traditional foods out there.

How do you stop someone from doing something that is risky to their own and their families health?

One way is for your religion to declare it against God's will.

Pigs are not really 'dirty' animals, but they don't have sweat glands. To regulate their body temperature they wallow in mud and water. When they are kept in captivity the mud is mixed with feces and they are commonly infested with worms. Certain types of worms infest the muscles of the host. Eating an animal infected this way causes no harm, if the meat is fully cooked (to a temperature of at least 137 degrees fahrenheit). Undercooked pork can lead to a disease called Trychinosis in humans.

About the time the Jewish and Muslim religions began people cooked over open fires. Meat was commonly undercooked. People commonly got sick from pork.


So "God" ;) proclaims it an unclean animal...

Leviticus tends to be a bit harsh. Nobody listen to Leviticus. If you've slept in the same bed a woman's been in while she's had her period, you've disobeyed Leviticus. Also, that "man shall not lay with man" (anti-gay), "if a child curses its parents' name, the child shall be put to death", etc etc.


Don't quote Leviticus unless you're completely innocent of these things and plan on staying innocent of them. This means if you've ever slept in your parents' bed (where your mom most likely slept, even when she was on her period) then you and your father are goin' to hell. If you curse at your mom for having her period while you were sleeping there, you're going to double-hell, and that's where all the gameshow hosts are.

I <3 the cantonese.

@Demented hamsters, I have also enjoyed fried cows intestines, and ducks feet. And chicken feet too. Braised in Hoisin. That's good stuff.
How could you enjoy those things? cows intestines are just far too gamey for my liking and I couldn't stop myself from thinking what had gone through them prior to the poor thing's death.
However they were nowhere near as disgusting as fried pigs intestines. *shudder* I still feel nauseous thinking about them.
As for the feet things, not enough meat and too much effort imo. I like having a huge chunk of meat I can get my teeth into, not all this picky stuff. And again, I couldn't help think about how much birdcrap those feet trodden in while they'd still been attached to a live bird.

How do you stop someone from doing something that is risky to their own and their families health?

One way is for your religion to declare it against God's will.

Pigs are not really 'dirty' animals, but they don't have sweat glands. To regulate their body temperature they wallow in mud and water. When they are kept in captivity the mud is mixed with feces and they are commonly infested with worms. Certain types of worms infest the muscles of the host. Eating an animal infected this way causes no harm, if the meat is fully cooked (to a temperature of at least 137 degrees fahrenheit). Undercooked pork can lead to a disease called Trychinosis in humans.

About the time the Jewish and Muslim religions began people cooked over open fires. Meat was commonly undercooked. People commonly got sick from pork.


So "God" ;) proclaims it an unclean animal...Be that as it may, it's one of the lousiest foods I've eaten. God obviously has taste.

I simply disagree. I love ham. Honey ham, particularly. Pork, not so much - bacon, not very often - sausage, not at all. Ham, though, good lord.

I'm guessing you're ashkenazi?

He copy pasted off jewfaq.org (which btw, is run by an american ashkenazi jew, but thats neither here nor there).

Muslims follow slightly different rules than Jews about what is clean.

Shellfish is Halal (OK for muslims), but not Kosher.

Alcohol is Kosher, but not Halal.

Everything else is pretty much the same, with the exception that the proper slaughter of a Halal cow is supposed to be with an invocation to Allah instead of YVWH. Muslims regularly eat Kosher food if they cant find anything certified Halal, as long as they make sure that it doesnt contain alcohol.

Edit:

For anyone that wants a more in-depth description of what is Kosher, heres the full webpage.

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

He copy pasted off jewfaq.org (which btw, is run by an american ashkenazi jew, but thats neither here nor there).

Muslims follow slightly different rules than Jews about what is clean.

Shellfish is Halal (OK for muslims), but not Kosher.

Alcohol is Kosher, but not Halal.

Everything else is pretty much the same, with the exception that the proper slaughter of a Halal cow is supposed to be with an invocation to Allah instead of YVWH. Muslims regularly eat Kosher food if they cant find anything certified Halal, as long as they make sure that it doesnt contain alcohol.

Edit:

For anyone that wants a more in-depth description of what is Kosher, heres the full webpage.

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Yah. I know the kashrus laws, I didn't realize he'd copy pasted, I only asked because of the Yiddish.

My understanding, from muslim friends, has always been that apart from alcohol, all kosher is halal, but not all halal is kosher.

Hindus dont eat Cow meat.. do they?

Depends. Plenty of hindus eat meat. A few do eat beef. Are they religious or not, I leave to their conscience. Heck I used to eat beef now and then when I was in college in Chennai.

But on the rural sides and in the cow belt (kinda like the bible belt in the US, except that this is in the north of the country) beef is taboo.

Leonstein
but as I understand it, Cows are holy animals and so they don't get hurt.

Cows are not "holy". All life is divine and cows as surrogate mothers are special and to be respected and not to be harmed. That is the logic behind not eating beef. Its not like a "on your knees and bow" kind holiness that is associated with Gods of the hindu pantheon.

2] We didn't create them. When the Creator tells you not to eat part of the Creation, you listen and obey.

It's things like that that made me ditch Catholicism. No offence, but any god that says "Don't do certain things BECAUSE I FREAKING SAY SO!" has a rather serious inferiority complex.

*awaits shitload of flames*

It's things like that that made me ditch Catholicism. No offence, but any god that says "Don't do certain things BECAUSE I FREAKING SAY SO!" has a rather serious inferiority complex.

*awaits shitload of flames*

That's only the muslim view:

The purpose of kosher laws are maintain purity and to maintain a distinction between the Jew and the non-Jew. Only jews are subject to keeping kosher, everyone else can eat what they want. It may also have something to do with self-discipline, but I can't remember.

There is also the hygene aspect, but that's not accepted as the official reason.

Bottom line however, for you as an ex-catholic, these rules don't apply. And if you wanted to become a practicing jew, there is always the reform.

Pork is really really good stuff. One of the most versatile meats - you can get bacon, gammon, ham, sausages, black pudding and a nice roast joint from it.

Although I prefer beef, I couldn't do without lovely pork.

That's only the muslim view:

The purpose of kosher laws are maintain purity and to maintain a distinction between the Jew and the non-Jew. Only jews are subject to keeping kosher, everyone else can eat what they want. It may also have something to do with self-discipline, but I can't remember.

There is also the hygene aspect, but that's not accepted as the official reason.

Bottom line however, for you as an ex-catholic, these rules don't apply. And if you wanted to become a practicing jew, there is always the reform.

According to Jewish law, Jews are "blessed" with the privelege to keep 613 commandments, while non-Jews are required to keep 7. Of course, the VAST majority of those 613 dont apply to modern life.

In case you are wondering, the 7 commandments Jews believe that all humans (or more specifically, decendants of Noah... but there arent any other humans around) should follow are:
1) to establish courts of justice
2) not to commit blasphemy
3) not to commit idolatry
4) not to commit incest and adultery
5) not to commit bloodshed
6) not to commit robbery
7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal

List is from http://www.jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm

5) not to commit bloodshed

"OMG I CUT MYSELF WHILE SHAVING, I'M GOING TO HELL" ;) :D

Ask a Hindu, but as I understand it, Cows are holy animals and so they don't get hurt.
But that may just be a particular kind of Hindu. In some temples rats are holy, in others it's monkeys. So they are allowed to do whatever they want there (like stealing people's food).


Acctually they may eat it, but it must have died from natural causes, no killing cows in other words...I thinkk old cow would probably taste like eating shoe tough...and nobody wants to eat a cow that's died from a disease...

This was taken from my long-term memory and i reserve the right to be wrong at some parts...

Did you know that in Saudi Arabia it is impossible to buy any food that has pork in it? It's illegal to transport it into the country... not that it doesn't ever happen:D

So I'm sitting here eating a BLT, and it occurs to me that Muslims cannot eat pork. It's something I've never really thought about, but now that I do, it seems a little silly. (as silly as only eating fish on Fridays)

So my question is why can't Muslims eat pork, how long has it been this way, and what would be the penalty if you did?

I don't know much about Islam, truth be known, but as for Judaism - there are certain "rules" regarding animals that can be eaten and those that cannot be eaten. As for Islam, I'm not very sure, but I think that Islam forbids only pork meat.

It's basically one of those traditions that they've been carrying on with since the days in which they lived in the desert (like circumcision). These days in Israel they have fridges, so problem solved, ;) (not to mention that only few people still carry on with that tradition)

I'm guessing you're ashkenazi?

Yes, but I quoted most of that from:

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

No reason to re-invent the wheel, after all.

I don't keep glatt kashrut, myself, but I do make an effort to do so.

Yes, but I quoted most of that from:

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

No reason to re-invent the wheel, after all.

I don't keep glatt kashrut, myself, but I do make an effort to do so.

Glatt's an abused term these days anyway.

Glatt's an abused term these days anyway.

lol ... well it does mean "smooth" ... easy to abuse

Though ... how do you mean?

lol ... well it does mean "smooth" ... easy to abuse

Though ... how do you mean?

Eh? Well you only have to keep glatt if you are sephardi. Ashkenazi can eat animals with small blemishes on the lung. (subject to supervision, I don't know what counts and doesn't, not being a rabbi obviously, but it's something to do with whether or not the lung is punctured).

But people have taken to use glatt interchangeble with la-mehadrin, which is a different thing, and not really needed, as far as I know.

And it really all depends how far you want to go with the torn in the field (treyf) thing.

On the plus side, sephardi get rice and lentils at passover. :)

Eh? Well you only have to keep glatt if you are sephardi. Ashkenazi can eat animals with small blemishes on the lung. (subject to supervision, I don't know what counts and doesn't, not being a rabbi obviously, but it's something to do with whether or not the lung is punctured).

Oh! Okie now I gotcha. Well, I think with such things intent is important. I honestly don't think it's possible to keep perfectly kosher anymore. Way too many variables and the world isn't as simple as it used to be. I'm reasonably sure - by following the story of Elijah - that Allah is pleased with the effort even if the end is not reached.

On the plus side, sephardi get rice and lentils at passover. :)

Heh ... true! My neighbor, an Israeli shephardi, brought us a big rice dish to our seder last Pesach. While I generally prohibit the grain in my home, to refuse such a neighborly gesture would have been far worse.

Honestly, besides bacon and similarly processed meat, pig meat just isn't that good. And those can be replaced by good meats, like turkey.
You are insane. I make chipotle roast pork loin that is more tender and flavorful than any Fillet Mignon.

Religion really is stupid.

and we are not allowed to drink Wine or any form of alcohol, AT ALL...
Didn't seem to stop the 9/11 hijackers from partying when they were in Florida.

Oh! Okie now I gotcha. Well, I think with such things intent is important. I honestly don't think it's possible to keep perfectly kosher anymore. Way too many variables and the world isn't as simple as it used to be. I'm reasonably sure - by following the story of Elijah - that Allah is pleased with the effort even if the end is not reached.


A lot of depends where you live too. My neighborhood has a lot of extremely orthodox, so I could manage pretty well if I wanted. (Though I'd have to study up, and go see the Rabbi about things like glassware).

But it always strikes me that a lot of kasrush is rabbinical interpretation, and not necessarily applicable historically. For example the difference in the sephardi and the ashkenazi rules.

So I find not keeping it, and going to H&H bagels once in a while, works for me. (And I am an atheist as well, so it's sort of a moot point).

(Though I do tend to shop in the kosher market a lot, because it is cheaper and cleaner than most regular supermarkets).

Religion really is stupid.

Boy that is one heck of a first post. So how do you really feel.

Welcome to NationStates general forum.

That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.

(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 13)

You are insane. I make chipotle roast pork loin that is more tender and flavorful than any Fillet Mignon.
And then there's always that Southern US staple: pork chops! Yumm!

However, I draw the line at pigsfeet and hog jowls. And pig brains or chitterlings are just nasty! :gundge:

And then there's always that Southern US staple: pork chops! Yumm!

However, I draw the line at pigsfeet and hog jowls. And pig brains or chitterlings are just nasty! :gundge:

My first try with a new bean soup recipe I got called for hamhocks (never used them before) ... It turned out to be not as bad as I had been afriad of. ;)