NationStates Jolt Archive

From Goth church services to Hooters restaurants, it appears that Christianity is making an effort to become cool. Too bad they've chosen to neglect Punk and Metal in favor of Goth, but they're trying.

In January, an Anglican church vicar in Cambridge, England, commenced twice-monthly services for goths (with black garments and rock music) at his St. Edward King and Martyr church. Vicar Martin Ramshaw, 34, said he is a goth himself and reports that his dozen or so worshippers go straight from services to a goth nightclub. (He will soon issue goth T-shirts with Jesus speaking, "If the world hates you, remember, it hated me first.") And in Waco, Texas, in January, in another congregation-building move, Catholic Monsignor Isidore Rozycki, attending a gala opening, blessed the city's new Hooters restaurant. [Agence France-Presse, 1-19-06] [Waco Tribune, 1-23-06]

Now that's progressive.

Jesus was pretty goth (and emo as well) with all that "No one understands me because I'm the Son of God" and "I must suffer to save mankind" nonsense.

Reminds me of the "Buddy Jesus" from Dogma...

Jesus was pretty goth (and emo as well) with all that "No one understands me because I'm the Son of God" and "I must suffer to save mankind" nonsense.

That's why he was nailed to two planks of wood. Rightly so.

They need to bring back oratorios and cantatas if you ask me. I mean, who needs punk or goth? I might even convert if they did.

I was kinda impressed by the Catholic blessing a hooters restaurant. I wonder if I can convince a Catholic priest to come and bless the private lapdance room at my favorite titty bar?

http://pressurecooker.phil.cmu.edu/Jesus/buddy.jpg

Religious goths? Weiiiird.

EDIT: I see that Newtsburg already mentioned the buddy jesus. Damn

From Goth church services to Hooters restaurants, it appears that Christianity is making an effort to become cool. Too bad they've chosen to neglect Punk and Metal in favor of Goth, but they're trying.

Well, if you can believe in God, you can believe that it's possible to be both mainstream and counter-culture at the same time.

I smell a brand new crop of FLAGGELANTS! :D

The coolest thing Christianity could do is encourage free thought but that will never happen.

The coolest thing Christianity could do is encourage free thought but that will never happen.
Oh, is that why I was encouraged by my priests to put of Confirmation for six years so I could be sure that Catholicism was the way I wanted to go in life? Or is that why my friends up north at the Convent (by "friends" I really mean it -- they're possibly living vicariously through me, but they're the coolest Sisters I've ever met) never try to steer me in one way or another judging by what the Church should want me to do, because my individual experience and happiness is far more important?

Yes, I see how we stifle free thought left and right.... :rolleyes:

Jesus was pretty goth (and emo as well) with all that "No one understands me because I'm the Son of God" and "I must suffer to save mankind" nonsense.

He was a bit of a perpetual teenager wasn't he?

"Like, why can't everyone love each other, why must be all this hate. No one understands my divine message. I'm going to my room to listen to Gregorian chants"

Simonist']Oh, is that why I was encouraged by my priests to put of Confirmation for six years so I could be sure that Catholicism was the way I wanted to go in life? Or is that why my friends up north at the Convent (by "friends" I really mean it -- they're possibly living vicariously through me, but they're the coolest Sisters I've ever met) never try to steer me in one way or another judging by what the Church should want me to do, because my individual experience and happiness is far more important?

Yes, I see how we stifle free thought left and right.... :rolleyes:

I'm sure you've been warned before about bringing reality into a NS debate...

Simonist']Oh, is that why I was encouraged by my priests to put of Confirmation for six years so I could be sure that Catholicism was the way I wanted to go in life? Or is that why my friends up north at the Convent (by "friends" I really mean it -- they're possibly living vicariously through me, but they're the coolest Sisters I've ever met) never try to steer me in one way or another judging by what the Church should want me to do, because my individual experience and happiness is far more important?

Yes, I see how we stifle free thought left and right.... :rolleyes:

There would be no banned book list in Cathalism if Cathalism encouraged free thought. Also I doubt you can ask any question you want without reprimand. Try asking how any one would know about the first two people to ever exist enough to write about them as they have been written about. Ask how Adam immediatly knew how to farm food or how one of his sons knew how to herd animals. There is tons and tons of incredable stuff it's suggested that your religion knows to be true that you would likely receive chastisment for asking about them.

Christianity is the most widespread religion on the planet. Thus, it is already cool. You people are so 1st century. :rolleyes:

Christianity is the most widespread religion on the planet. Thus, it is already cool. You people are so 1st century. :rolleyes:
No, I'm just ahead of my time. Christianity, Islam, and all other religions will soon be surpassed by the growing popularity of Vodoun.

There would be no banned book list in Cathalism if Cathalism encouraged free thought. Also I doubt you can ask any question you want without reprimand. Try asking how any one would know about the first two people to ever exist enough to write about them as they have been written about. Ask how Adam immediatly knew how to farm food or how one of his sons knew how to herd animals. There is tons and tons of incredable stuff it's suggested that your religion knows to be true that you would likely receive chastisment for asking about them.
Obviously you do know absolutely nothing about -- and here's the correct way to spell it, Sparky -- Catholicism if that's your view of things. Books aren't specifically banned, they're just suggested against. Schools ban books -- the Church just tells us that it's against their message. Get it clear.

Also, yes, I can ask any question I choose to. They can't reprimand a person for wanting more knowledge about their faith, and it only shows your ignorance that you won't see it otherwise. Considering I did spend six years making my decisions based on KNOWLEDGE on many different religions, you think I wouldn't have asked the kinds of questions they might not want to answer? We're not all as mind-numbingly blind as you people want to make us out to be.

Here's a challenge -- either you go and make an attempt to actually learn a bit about these things that you're so against, or you shut your ignorant mouth for lack of information. Sound fair?

No, I'm just ahead of my time. Christianity, Islam, and all other religions will soon be surpassed by the growing popularity of Vodoun.
The problem is, only trolls like Voodoo. So, the Holy See can very easily rally a crusade against these trolls, which are obviously extra terrestrials disguised as fairy tale creaters, and then slaughter them by the thousands and have their blood in the streets or convert them by the point of the swo ... er ... firearm. It goes against the Bible see. Then, when that's all over, humanity will realize the raves in the Megachurches out West are the bomb.

The problem is, only trolls like Voodoo. So, the Holy See can very easily rally a crusade against these trolls, which are obviously extra terrestrials disguised as fairy tale creaters, and then slaughter them by the thousands and have their blood in the streets or convert them by the point of the swo ... er ... firearm. It goes against the Bible see. Then, when that's all over, humanity will realize the raves in the Megachurches out West are the bomb.

After that, humanity will follow the new messiah, the hermaphrodite coupling of Jerry Cornelius and Una Persson.

There would be no banned book list in Cathalism if Cathalism encouraged free thought. Also I doubt you can ask any question you want without reprimand. Try asking how any one would know about the first two people to ever exist enough to write about them as they have been written about. Ask how Adam immediatly knew how to farm food or how one of his sons knew how to herd animals. There is tons and tons of incredable stuff it's suggested that your religion knows to be true that you would likely receive chastisment for asking about them.
I've never heard of a Catholic banned-book list.

Here's a challenge -- either you go and make an attempt to actually learn a bit about these things that you're so against, or you shut your ignorant mouth for lack of information. Sound fair?

The cure for ignorance is knowledge.

The cure for ignorance is knowledge.
Hence my challenge, genius

The cure for ignorance is knowledge.
Nah. Look what happened when we got "knowledge" in the 20th century. That worked out real nice.

"The cure for ignorance is understanding", methinks.

From Goth church services to Hooters restaurants, it appears that Christianity is making an effort to become cool. Too bad they've chosen to neglect Punk and Metal in favor of Goth, but they're trying.
Nothing new about this. Haven't you heard pop Christians refering to the Risen Jesus as "The Riz"? Or talking about how they are "Down with G-O-D?"

The problem is, only trolls like Voodoo. So, the Holy See can very easily rally a crusade against these trolls, which are obviously extra terrestrials disguised as fairy tale creaters, and then slaughter them by the thousands and have their blood in the streets or convert them by the point of the swo ... er ... firearm. It goes against the Bible see. Then, when that's all over, humanity will realize the raves in the Megachurches out West are the bomb.
Firearms? Please, we've got vodoun dolls and with the help of the loa including Ogoun and Baron Samedi we will be victorious.

Nothing new about this. Haven't you heard pop Christians refering to the Risen Jesus as "The Riz"? Or talking about how they are "Down with G-O-D?"
Not until just now. Weird.

From Goth church services to Hooters restaurants, it appears that Christianity is making an effort to become cool. Too bad they've chosen to neglect Punk and Metal in favor of Goth, but they're trying.

Punk and religion don't mix.
Ever.
Remember 'Bad religion'?

Here's a challenge -- either you go and make an attempt to actually learn a bit about these things that you're so against, or you shut your ignorant mouth for lack of information. Sound fair?

I say BS

This Wiki entry disagrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum

The Index's effects were felt throughout much of the Catholic world. From Quebec to Poland it was, for many years, very difficult to find copies of banned works, especially outside of major cities. The Index as an official list having force of law was abolished in 1966 under Pope Paul VI, following the end of the Second Vatican Council and largely due to practical considerations. However, the moral obligation of not circulating or reading those writings which endanger faith and morals remains.

The cure for ignorance is knowledge.
No, the cure for ignorance is to be shot in the face!
Preferably by a vice president, though a Secretary of the Treasury will do as well.

Punk and religion don't mix.
Ever.
Remember 'Bad religion'?
http://christianmusic.com/genres/punk.htm

Kind of scary.

No, the cure for ignorance is to be shot in the face!
Preferably by a vice president, though a Secretary of the Treasury will do as well.

Ignorance-The condition of not knowing something

Knowledge-The condition of knowing something.

Firearms? Please, we've got vodoun dolls and with the help of the loa including Ogoun and Baron Samedi we will be victorious.
Just wait until there's a Chatholic in the White House again. Then, fear our Jesus supported wrath of tactical nuclear missiles, blessed by none other than the Pope and the spirit of Peter himself!

I've never heard of a Catholic banned-book list.

You haven't??

The Vatican has a whole library of banned books. Of course, they don't say they are banned, they simply suggest you do not read them and then all the other christian institutes ban them. The church also never killed anyone, earthly leaders did, after being suggested to do so by the Vatican.

I say BS

This Wiki entry disagrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum

The Index's effects were felt throughout much of the Catholic world. From Quebec to Poland it was, for many years, very difficult to find copies of banned works, especially outside of major cities. The Index as an official list having force of law was abolished in 1966 under Pope Paul VI, following the end of the Second Vatican Council and largely due to practical considerations. However, the moral obligation of not circulating or reading those writings which endanger faith and morals remains.
All that seems to tell about is predominantly censorship, which is a far cry from banning these books. It's the Church's job to try to keep people from things that are damaging to the well being of their faith, but that doesn't mean that they're gonna spank us and say "We said fucking NO!" just because we choose to read them.
The aim of the list was to prevent the reading of immoral books or works containing theological errors and to prevent the corruption of the faithful.
In 1571 a special congregation was erected, the Sacred Congregation of the Index, which had the specific task to investigate those writings that were denounced in Rome as being not exempt of errors, to update the list of Pope Pius IV regularly and also to make lists of corrections in case a writing was not in itself damnable but only in need of correction and put on the list with a mitigating clause (e.g., donec corrigatur (forbidden if not corrected) or donec expurgetur (forbidden if not purged)).
The Index was regularly updated until the 1948 edition. This 32nd edition contained 4,000 titles censored for various reasons: heresy, moral deficiency, sexual explicitness, political incorrectness, and so on.

If you studied any further, as I suggested, you'd also soon learn that there wasn't really a whole lot done against those who actually READ the books on the list, it was more action to censor the authors themselves.

Got anything else? Because "Don't read these books" does not, in my mind, equate an absolute strangulation of free thought.

http://christianmusic.com/genres/punk.htm

Kind of scary.

indeed:confused:

You haven't??

The Vatican has a whole library of banned books. Of course, they don't say they are banned, they simply suggest you do not read them and then all the other christian institutes ban them. The church also never killed anyone, earthly leaders did, after being suggested to do so by the Vatican.

Actually priests were quite happy to fight in battles in the middle ages, they were forbidden to spill blood so they used maces or hammers instead...

Not until just now. Weird.
Whoa, lucky you!

If you want to see some fun examples, you can watch the movie "Saved." They've got "Pastor Skip" running a religious high school, and Pastor Skip does flips, boogies to pop music, and encourages them to "walk with the ultimate rebel!" (aka Jesus)

I've also encountered many folk of this sort in real life. There was an evangelist group on my campus that held "Rock Out For Jesus" concerts and funded a "Get Busy" event on Valentines Day in which participants would spend the day handing out abstinance literature on the street instead of "getting busy" with their significant other.

[QUOTE='[NS]Simonist']If you studied any further, as I suggested, you'd also soon learn that there wasn't really a whole lot done against those who actually READ the books on the list, it was more action to censor the authors themselves.
QUOTE]

*ahem.
About 20 years ago, when you read a book on the forbiddne list when you were in a catholic school, you wouldn't have said that.

If you want to see some fun examples, you can watch the movie "Saved." They've got "Pastor Skip" running a religious high school, and Pastor Skip does flips and encourages them to "walk with the ultimate rebel!" (aka Jesus)
That movie started out good, but then flopped at the end. Should see it though! :)

[QUOTE='[NS]Simonist']If you studied any further, as I suggested, you'd also soon learn that there wasn't really a whole lot done against those who actually READ the books on the list, it was more action to censor the authors themselves.
QUOTE]

*ahem.
About 20 years ago, when you read a book on the forbiddne list when you were in a catholic school, you wouldn't have said that.
About 40 years ago, when my father was distributing these "forbidden books" about his Catholic school and bringing them to monastic retreats, nothing was done about it. My God, does that make us Midwesterners more lenient?

Actually priests were quite happy to fight in battles in the middle ages, they were forbidden to spill blood so they used maces or hammers instead...

I know, it's just the Vatican that keeps claiming they never were engaged in any fights.
Funny, since there was a Vatican army for a long period during the middle ages, which the pope didn't fear to deploy.

Ignorance-The condition of not knowing something
Incorrect. Ignorance, as was defined by Michael Jackson in 2003, is the condition of thinking that Michael Jackson is a pedophile for sleeping with kids.
Knowledge, as defined by School House Rock 3 decades before that, is "power."
Therefore, it is possible to possess both knowledge and ignorance simultaneously, if you happen to find certain ex-pop stars really creepy and own a powerplant.

Simonist'][QUOTE=An archie]
About 40 years ago, when my father was distributing these "forbidden books" about his Catholic school and bringing them to monastic retreats, nothing was done about it. My God, does that make us Midwesterners more lenient?

I guess it does, my parents went to school to European catcholic schools (which is why I am European)

Simonist']All that seems to tell about is predominantly censorship, which is a far cry from banning these books. It's the Church's job to try to keep people from things that are damaging to the well being of their faith, but that doesn't mean that they're gonna spank us and say "We said fucking NO!" just because we choose to read them.




If you studied any further, as I suggested, you'd also soon learn that there wasn't really a whole lot done against those who actually READ the books on the list, it was more action to censor the authors themselves.

Got anything else? Because "Don't read these books" does not, in my mind, equate an absolute strangulation of free thought.


Still the suggestion of the consept of forbidden knowledge is detramental to free thought. The power the Cathlic church suggests as being in words or pictures for that matter simply is not there.

I can easily say raping children is fun and not have to worry about you raping a child.

I can say Jesus never existed and no full well that those words have no effect on your faith.

Whoa, lucky you!

If you want to see some fun examples, you can watch the movie "Saved." They've got "Pastor Skip" running a religious high school, and Pastor Skip does flips, boogies to pop music, and encourages them to "walk with the ultimate rebel!" (aka Jesus)

I've also encountered many folk of this sort in real life. There was an evangelist group on my campus that held "Rock Out For Jesus" concerts and funded a "Get Busy" event on Valentines Day in which participants would spend the day handing out abstinance literature on the street instead of "getting busy" with their significant other.
I wonder why they think Jesus is opposeed to consentual unmarried sex?

That movie started out good, but then flopped at the end. Should see it though! :)
Yeah, I was really disappointed in the ending as well. But they do a really good job of showing the kind of indoctrination that goes on in many modern religious communities and religious schools.

I guess it does, my parents went to school to European catcholic schools (which is why I am European)
No offense, but how was I to gather from your simple statement that you were European? It doesn't even say that in your side info. The Church doesn't have nearly as much direct influence in America as it seems to in Europe, probably because we're an ocean away and can catch 'em before they get to us. Whatever the case, I've never experienced all this brutal personal censorship that everybody envisions of the Church, nor have many of my friends in other areas. Maybe it's actually the European vision of the Church that people consider when they go into this crap......

Sorry but I find it upsetting the idea that any one might believe the idea free thought isn't discouraged by the Catholic church. So I do feel the need to defend my position. Your hate for religious debate aside.

Sorry but I find it upsetting the idea that any one might believe the idea free thought isn't discouraged by the Catholic church. So I do feel the need to defend my position. Your hate for religious debate aside.
I don't mind religious debate one bit, it's what I'm going to college for at the moment. It just seems to me that your position is based more on personal bias than actual facts.

Simonist'] I've never experienced all this brutal personal censorship that everybody envisions of the Church, nor have many of my friends in other areas. Maybe it's actually the European vision of the Church that people consider when they go into this crap......

I'm not sure about America but in Europe there still is the system of confession (it used to be much thougher). The priest demands you
to confess all of your sins, thus invading your private life and regulating it.


EDIT: How do I put that information in my sidescreen thingy?

I'm not sure about America but in Europe there still is the system of confession (it used to be much thougher). The priest demands you
to confess all of your sins, thus invading your private life and regulating it.
Well, the real "invasion" is their deliberate indoctrination of minors, and the way they plant feelings of guilt, shame, self-loathing, and helplessness in the minds of vulnerable individuals. Rituals like confession only play on the violation that has already occured.

I'm not sure about America but in Europe there still is the system of confession (it used to be much thougher). The priest demands you
to confess all of your sins, thus invading your private life and regulating it.


EDIT: How do I put that information in my sidescreen thingy?
Yeah, we have confession as well, but they can't push us for information. It's more of a risk-based system -- if you're too ashamed to tell even your priest what you've done, then it's still on your soul and you better hope you don't die with it on your soul. And to put location in your profile, you go to the Profile link up near the top of the page, then Edit Profile on the left sidebar, then put in your location in the proper area. Simple as that.

From Goth church services to Hooters restaurants, it appears that Christianity is making an effort to become cool. Too bad they've chosen to neglect Punk and Metal in favor of Goth, but they're trying.

There have always been Christian Goths :D

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f293/DubyaGoat/AlwaysGoth.jpg

Well, the real "invasion" is their deliberate indoctrination of minors, and the way they plant feelings of guilt, shame, self-loathing, and helplessness in the minds of vulnerable individuals. ...

Did you plagarise that scare argument straight from the anti-gay-agenda people and just reverse it for your purposes? It sure sounds a lot like the type of paranoia they screech about, except reversed, of course.

I wonder why they think Jesus is opposeed to consentual unmarried sex?

Did he ever condemn it? I know Paul was very hard on 'fornicators and sodomites' but I can't recall anything from Jesus about it.

I'm sure about fifty people will now produce quotes which expose my ignorance of the Bible but never mind.

Did he ever condemn it? I know Paul was very hard on 'fornicators and sodomites' but I can't recall anything from Jesus about it.

I'm sure about fifty people will now produce quotes which expose my ignorance of the Bible but never mind.

Do you want us to bring up those verses? I mean, it's no trouble, but if you already know that their there.....

Now that's progressive.
Naw, it would be more progressive if they played something like Pink Floyd
*hopes someone gets the prog rock joke

Christianity= following rules and beliefs invented by another.
Having no spine= uncool.

I stand by my original assertion.

Christianity would be cool if it encouraged free thought.

Free thought and forbiden knowledge can not co-exist.

Considering the idea that the Catholic church seems to believe in the corrupting power of books that it has dicided to ban a few. There is still a book ban although little in they way of enforcment.

Since no lie can not corrupt so much the the truth can not correct it. I'm of the belief that when it comes to book bannning people don't ban books in order to protect people from lies. People ban books in order to keep people from discovering the truth.

There is the occasional paraniod idea that violence and sex in media is somehow damaging but I doubt it's the reason why the Catholic church bans books. These book bans fall in a different catagory.

A truth reveals a lie.

A lie is protected when books containing the truth are banned.

Too bad they've chosen to neglect Punk and Metal in favor of Goth, but they're trying.

I'm rather glad they have, to be quite honest.

Christians are only cool when they let me slap their cheeks (one, then the other) and then give me their shirts and coats.

Those ones I can shake hands with, the rest are basically liars.

I was kinda impressed by the Catholic blessing a hooters restaurant. I wonder if I can convince a Catholic priest to come and bless the private lapdance room at my favorite titty bar?

trust me, those lapdance rooms were blessed by a priest long ago

Do you want us to bring up those verses? I mean, it's no trouble, but if you already know that their there.....

Sure why not, more knowledge is never a bad thing.

I'm sure you've been warned before about bringing reality into a NS debate...
Well at least anecdotal

Simonist']Hence my challenge, genius

Ah...and here we see the true love towards other people that most judeo-christian religions talk about...:)

Ah...and here we see the true love towards other people that most judeo-christian religions talk about...:)
Christianity never says anything against getting annoyed at somebody and saying "If you don't know what you're talking about, don't say it", or being slightly sarcastic in responses, which is essentially what I did. I mean, unless you can find me the verses that say otherwise....but I'm pretty sure that's well within the boundaries of what we're allowed to do, "true love" aside.

I'm rather glad they have, to be quite honest.

What would be REALLY cool would be jazz-jesus. 50s beatnik attire with shades and clicking his fingers, to a miles davis soundtrack.

I guess it does, my parents went to school to European catcholic schools (which is why I am European)

Well? I went to a Catholic school in England, and read all kindsa crap that wasn't approved of by the Catholic Church. Did anyone reprimand me? No. As Simonist said, they don't forbid these books, they discourage people from reading them.

Of course, they did ban 'Rant' magazine for encouraging contraception, but only insofar as the school itself stopped distributing it. They didn't shoot anyone who read it did they? They just stopped handing it out, in order to prevent what theys aw as a corruption of faith. Whether or not you think it is is an entirely different matter.

Well? I went to a Catholic school in England, and read all kindsa crap that wasn't approved of by the Catholic Church. Did anyone reprimand me? No. As Simonist said, they don't forbid these books, they discourage people from reading them.

Of course, they did ban 'Rant' magazine for encouraging contraception, but only insofar as the school itself stopped distributing it. They didn't shoot anyone who read it did they? They just stopped handing it out, in order to prevent what theys aw as a corruption of faith. Whether or not you think it is is an entirely different matter.

Up untill 1966 there was a very real ban and that isn't very long ago. Probly the only reason the book ban with penalties was given up was becuase it made the Catholic church.

All in and just the same I'd be happy to see the instatution file bankruptsy and go away.

Sure why not, more knowledge is never a bad thing.

Righty ho then, outlawing consensual, unmarried sex would be the same as outlawing adultery, (it seems that the definition of that in the Bible shared the same words that also mean fornication and whatnot, learn something new every day I suppose :/. http://www.yrm.org/qna-fornication.htm ) so that'd apply Matthew 27:28 where Jesus makes the rules even more strict on adultery, and John 8:1-11 (Err, the NIV says some manuscripts didn't have this part of the Bible) shows in the end how Jesus was forgiving the person caught in adultery, but telling her to leave her life of sin, implying she was sinning by being an adultress.

Though there is an interesting point that's been made here, technically speaking, people are right when they say Jesus didn't spend a very long time on adultery and whatnot :/. But I don't see why He'd need to anyway, I mean, if you don't trust His opinion the first time, why need to see it a bunch more times?

(shifty eyes) Us Christians are already cool (shifty eyes)

(shifty eyes) Us Christians are already cool (shifty eyes)


No...not really.

I refer you to:

Stryper.
DC Talk
Delirious?
Micheal W. Smith.
Amy Grant.

Nothing about any of those, are remotely cool.