NationStates Jolt Archive

ABC has recently shown footage of what they claim to be a discussion between former Iraqi dictator Saddam Huessain and his cabinet discussing WMDS and terrorism. Do you think these tapes are true or rubbish?
Link: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Investigation/story?id=1616996

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Having read that article, nothing seems too fabricated. Probably real, I guess.

Wanna bet we can find American politicians also discussing WMD and Terrorism? :p

From the article, it seems like it might be real, but that it doesn't actually prove anything or provide any new evidence.

i'm waiting for something like a kicked coke bottle on the screen or weird light changes, but nothing happend, so i'll assume. . .

what, don't get the references? read this (http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html)

Wanna bet we can find American politicians also discussing WMD and Terrorism? :p

From the article, it seems like it might be real, but that it doesn't actually prove anything or provide any new evidence.

I posted a thread about this tape about a week ago.

Those who hate Bush or oppose the war were inclined to think the whole tape is useless, partisan hackery that means nothing.

Others think it's indicative of Saddam's deep desire to not only have WMD, but to hide them as well. At least that much is certainly on the tape. But, most people who oppose the Iraq war believe that Saddam was hiding nothing (we certainly didn't find SCUDs filled with smallpox, now did we?), and was harmless.

I believe that the tape proves that as soon as the UN was to leave, concluding that there were no WMD, and if the US did not invade, he certainly would have resumed his WMD programs unchecked.

Additionally, it indicates that he either had knowledge of future terrorist attacks against the US (or an incredible amount of foresight). It also shows that Iraq wanted to avoid being blamed for any WMD attacks in the future, especially if they were working on WMD themselves.

I hardly view Saddam as some helpless innocent. I firmly believe that had not his own scientists deceived him, and had the UN eventually concluded that he was WMD-free, he would have immediately resumed production.

Thanks to the combined efforts of Fox News and CBS, I no longer believe networks breaking news stories. If, in three weeks, there's no evidence that they're fake, then I'll buy it.

Those who hate Bush or oppose the war were inclined to think the whole tape is useless, partisan hackery that means nothing.
I have a feeling that he probably wanted them, and maybe even thought he had them - but that he couldn't afford it.

With the sanctions (and even accounting for various bribes - there's an Aussie partly state-owned company in very deep shit right now...), he had to economise on his funds. The fact that he couldn't even keep his best planes (the Mig-29s) in the air, and that his soldiers apparently didn't get paid much tells me that money was in short supply, even for the military.

A WMD program (particularly one as big as was initially envisioned by the US and others) would have cost a lot of money, and required a lot of materials and expertise. I think he probably tried to get it back on its feet after Desert Storm but gave it up some time after that.

But in his deluded state he probably thought that having WMD would keep him in power and make others fear him, so he kept up an elaborate charade in order to seem more powerful than he really was. Worked too well, I suppose.

As to the Terrorism...well, he had his spies and secret police on the ground. He was bound to hear something from someone, although it would only start to get interesting if he mentioned details, rather than "someone could blow up a boobytrap car with WMD in the US". Tom Clancy might have had the same idea.

For the time being, I think his supposed links to Terrorism remain sketchy at best, and fairly unlikely. He was a secular sort of guy who brutally oppressed Islamic movements in the country. That doesn't make him a great friend of Islamists worldwide, but it does make him fit into exactly the category of secular ruler groups like the Muslim Brotherhood oppose.
Not to forget the whole Osama offering AQ to liberate Kuwait thing.

Those tapes are real, but it doesn't necissarily prove anything. From the brief excerpts they played on air, Saddam foreshadows that America will see terrorist attacks on our home soil, possibly even with WMDs, but he says that Iraq will not be involved. Indeed, Bush already admitted to invading Iraq based on false intelligence, so if some new revelation in these tapes justify his decision, he shouldn't be vindicated. It'd be like mugging a guy because he had a gold watch you wanted, then as police investigated, they found that that guy was just on his way to go rob someone's house. So no one should be exonerated.

Well, my first instinct is to wonder if they're fake, but maybe they aren't. Maybe the US isn't as bad as I've thought it is, but in the end, my criticism has little do with specific actions and more to do with the attitudes and mindset of the US,

I have a feeling that he probably wanted them, and maybe even thought he had them - but that he couldn't afford it.

With the sanctions (and even accounting for various bribes - there's an Aussie partly state-owned company in very deep shit right now...), he had to economise on his funds. The fact that he couldn't even keep his best planes (the Mig-29s) in the air, and that his soldiers apparently didn't get paid much tells me that money was in short supply, even for the military.

A WMD program (particularly one as big as was initially envisioned by the US and others) would have cost a lot of money, and required a lot of materials and expertise. I think he probably tried to get it back on its feet after Desert Storm but gave it up some time after that.

But in his deluded state he probably thought that having WMD would keep him in power and make others fear him, so he kept up an elaborate charade in order to seem more powerful than he really was. Worked too well, I suppose.

As to the Terrorism...well, he had his spies and secret police on the ground. He was bound to hear something from someone, although it would only start to get interesting if he mentioned details, rather than "someone could blow up a boobytrap car with WMD in the US". Tom Clancy might have had the same idea.

For the time being, I think his supposed links to Terrorism remain sketchy at best, and fairly unlikely. He was a secular sort of guy who brutally oppressed Islamic movements in the country. That doesn't make him a great friend of Islamists worldwide, but it does make him fit into exactly the category of secular ruler groups like the Muslim Brotherhood oppose.
Not to forget the whole Osama offering AQ to liberate Kuwait thing.

He was a great friend of the Palestinians. He was holding Abu Nidal as a revered guest until it looked like we were going to invade, then Saddam had him whacked rather publicly.

Saddam also financed most of the suicide bombings in Israel for a while, paying families of men who blew themselves up. A very public program.

Not a lot of love for Islamists, but a lot of love for anyone who was killing Jews.

Probably more for getting the "arab street" on his side than anything else.

Probably more for getting the "arab street" on his side than anything else.
Yep.
Realpolitik is what you would call it, I guess.

Yep.
Realpolitik is what you would call it, I guess.
Yes.

BTW, at a meeting today, we suddenly came up with the idea that perhaps Osama was the greatest manager of all time.

He's running an org with 100,000 worldwide employees.

He has no phone, no Internet, and yet he keeps the machine running despite our best attempts to kill him and his employees. Makes money in various illegal trades, sets goals and achieves some of them.

He would have made a great CEO.

He would have made a great CEO.
He's certainly got the ethical aptitude. :D

And now Bush is going to use these tapes to justify the war...:rolleyes:

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Bush has no need, as theres the Bush "street team" running around waving the flag for him.