NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, apparently parents and students don't.

Parents, Students Fine With Math, Science
By BEN FELLER, AP Education Writer
Wed Feb 15, 4:10 AM ET

Science and math have zoomed to the top of the nation's education agenda. Yet Amanda Cook, a parent of two school-age girls, can't quite see the urgency.

"In Maine, there aren't many jobs that scream out 'math and science,'" said Cook, who lives in Etna, in the central part of the state. Yes, both topics are important, but "most parents are saying you're better off going to school for something there's a big need for."

Nationwide, a new poll shows, many parents are content with the science and math education their children get — a starkly different view than that held by national leaders.

Fifty-seven percent of parents say "things are fine" with the amount of math and science being taught in their child's public school. High school parents seem particularly content — 70 percent say their child gets the right amount of science and math.

Students aren't too worried, either, according to the poll released Tuesday by Public Agenda, a public opinion research group that tracks education trends.

Only half of children in grades six to 12 say that understanding sciences and having strong math skills are essential for them to succeed after high school.

This comes as congressional leaders, governors, corporate executives and top scientists have called for schools to raise the rigor and amount of math and science in school. In his State of the Union address, President Bush made the matter a national priority.

Yet where public officials and employers see slipping production in the sciences as a threat to the nation's economy, parents and students don't share that urgency.

"There's energy and leadership at the top, but there is a task to be done in getting parents and kids to understand some of the ideas," said Jean Johnson, executive president of Public Agenda. "You can do a lot from the top, but you can't do everything. Schools are local. The leadership needs to reach out and help the public understand the challenge."

This week, Bush said, "We can't be the leading country in the world in science and technology unless we educate scientists and young mathematicians." A panel of top scientists and business leaders has warned "the scientific and technical building blocks of our economic leadership are eroding at a time when many other nations are gaining strength."

As for parents and students? In theory, they say, more math and science would be good.

For example, 62 percent of parents say it is crucial for most of today's students to learn high-level math, like advanced algebra and calculus.

The story changes, though, when parents talk specifically about their kids' schools, and when the children relay their own experiences.

Students put a lack of science and math near the bottom of problems they see at school. They are much more worried about bad language, cheating or the pressure for good grades.

Most parents, meanwhile, say their kids are getting a better education than they did. Only 32 percent of parents say their child's school should teach more math and science.

If anything, parents are less worried about math and science these days — not more.

In 1994, 52 percent of parents considered a lack of math and science in their local schools to be a serious problem. Now, only 32 percent say the same thing. During that time, states ramped up standards and testing, which seems to have affected parents' views.

The findings are based on telephone interviews with a nationally random sample of 1,342 public school students in grades six to 12, and of 1,379 parents of children in public school. The interviews were done between Oct. 30 and Dec. 29. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 3.5 percentage points for the students and 4 percentage points for the parents.

___

On The Net:

Public Agenda report: http://www.publicagenda.org/research/pdfs/rc0601.pdf

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060215/ap_on_sc/science_math

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this one, I really don't.

"In Maine, there aren't many jobs that scream out 'math and science,'"
In Maine. There's the key right there. In the real world, jobs require math and science! :p Seriously, I read an article that showed that those with a mathematical degree, or someone who has studied math well beyond high school, get into a lot more higher paying jobs than those who don't. I don't really remember the details, and I don't feel like going back to find it, but that was the point of it.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this one, I really don't.
Laugh at 'em.

They're rednecks and hobos, living out the fantasies they had when they were at school and couldn't do math.

oh, so that's why I spent 15 extra minutes at the gym today trying to help the idiot behind the desk count back change from a $5.....because "you don't need math for regular jobs":rolleyes:

I hate people who can't count change, why do they keep getting put on the register wherever I go?

Laugh at 'em.

They're rednecks and hobos, living out the fantasies they had when they were at school and couldn't do math.
The sad part is though, this is nation wide. I mean, if it were ONLY Maine...

I remember an education professor of mine talking about the sense of entitlement that follows with education. He was musing at the time as to why the value of education has dropped in America. He noted that first generation college students feel no sense of entitlement at all, they know they had to work for their education.

The second generation feels some entitlement, they were told that they were going to college for example.

The third and following generations feel full entitlement. They feel that of course they are going to college and that this experiance would be handed to them with little or no work.

I'm starting to wonder if the US doesn't suffer this same feeling of educational entitlement nation wide. Of course we're the best, we've always been the best, and we don't need to work harder because we'll always be the best... or that seems to be the feeling I'm getting from reading the report.

Here are some of the responses Carl Sagan got when he published an article on improving science and math in American schools.

Not a Americans are stupid We just rank lower in school big deal

Maybe that’s good that we are not as smart as other countries. So then we can just import all of our products and then we don’t have to spend our money on the parts for the goods.

And if other countries are doing better, what does it matter, their most likely going to come over the U.S. anyway?

Our society is doing just fine with what discoveries we are making. It’s going slowly, but the cure for cancer is coming right along.

The U.S. has its own learning system and it may not be as advanced as theirs, but it is just as good. Otherwise I think your article is a very educating one.

Not one kid in this school likes science. I really didn’t understand the point of the article. I thought it was very boreing. I’m just not into anything like that.

I am studying to be a lawyer and frankly I do agree with my parents when they say I have an attitude problem toward science.

It’s true that some American kids don’t try, but we could be smarter than any other country if we wanted to.

Instead of homework, kids will watch TV. I have to agree that I do it. I have to cut down from about 4 hrs. a day.

I don’t believe it’s the school systems fault, I think the whole country is brought up with not enough emphasis on school. I know my mom would rather be watching me play basketball or soccer, instead of helping me with an assignment. Most of the kids I know could care less about doing there work right.

I don’t think American kids are stupid. It just they don’t study hard enough because most of kids work… Lots of people said that Asian people are smarter than American and they are good at everything, but that’s not true. They are not good at sports. They don’t have time to play sports.
I’m in sports myself, and I feel the other kids on my team push you to excel more in that sport than in school.

If we want to rank first, we could all go to school all day and not have any social life.

I can see why a lot of science teachers would get mad at you for insulting there job.

Maybe if the teachers could be more exciting, the children will want to learn… if science is made to be fun, kids will want to learn. To accomplish this, it needs to be started early on, not just taught as facts and figures.

I really find it hard to believe those facts about the U.S. in science. If we are so far behind, how come Michael Gorbachev came to Minnesota and Montana to Control Data to see how we run are computers and thing?

Around 33 hours for fifth graders! In my opinion thats almost as many hours as a full job practically. So instead of homework we can be making money.

When you put down how far behind we are in science and math, why don’t you try tell us this in a little nicer manner? … Have a little pride in your country and its capabilities.

I think your facts were inconclusive and your evidence very flimsy. All in all, you raised a good point.

In short, we're doomed.

oh, so that's why I spent 15 extra minutes at the gym today trying to help the idiot behind the desk count back change from a $5.....because "you don't need math for regular jobs":rolleyes:

I hate people who can't count change, why do they keep getting put on the register wherever I go?
Because my dear Smunkeeville, why rasie wages to get folks who can read, count, and do basic math when you just need to design a register with little pictures that can also tell the person using it what the change is, and what bills need to be given back as change. :p

Well look at the trends. With manufacturing, and technical jobs ever more frequently being outsourced, and wages held low by ever increasing amounts of H1B visas, why the fuck would anyone spend all the time an energy pursuing jobs in short supply with ever more competition on a slanted playing field?

This is the result of almost 30 years of Republican ideology. We're no longer the nation of engineering from the space age. Potato chips or microchips indeed.

The parents are right, but for the wrong reason. If you learn it the jobs still may not come.

Instead of homework, kids will watch TV. I have to agree that I do it. I have to cut down from about 4 hrs. a day.
4 hours a day?!?!? I manage to watch 4 hours of TV before dinner.

Because my dear Smunkeeville, why rasie wages to get folks who can read, count, and do basic math when you just need to design a register with little pictures that can also tell the person using it what the change is, and what bills need to be given back as change. :p

what about the blind? :eek:

Yet another argument against democracy.

Oh yeah, you want to know why high schools in America suck? It’s because too many kids work who don’t need to and they put their job first so they can afford an Ipod or pay their cell phone bill. You want to know why unemployment is so high? Because a bunch of people are working who don’t need to.

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave our kids alone
Hey, teachers! Leave our kids alone
Sorry but the thread title called for this :D

I live in redneck, hick-ass ville. There actually an editorial that said, "We need to teach our children skills similar to those of Mr. Goodwrench, not more math and science." :rolleyes:

I am thankful that my teachers aren't slack-jawed schmucks.

Well, apparently parents and students don't.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060215/ap_on_sc/science_math

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this one, I really don't.please sum up in more fewer words, mine brain cannot comprehend long text...

I live in redneck, hick-ass ville. There actually an editorial that said, "We need to teach our children skills similar to those of Mr. Goodwrench, not more math and science." :rolleyes:
Mr Goodwrench doesn't use math and science, he uses Jesus Magick to fix my trailer.

please sum up in more fewer words, mine brain cannot comprehend long text...
... Please tell me you're joking.

Mr Goodwrench doesn't use math and science, he uses Jesus Magick to fix my trailer.
But for the Jesus Magick to work he's gotta roll high enough to overcome the skill barrier that your trailer poses! :eek:

I think math standards are fine. They currently require us to take 6 semesters at Indiana High Schools. Most schools require 8 though as mine did. THey also require you to take bio, chem, and physics. I found those to be enough.

I'm in Purdue Engineering now and doing fine. We do need to probably improve how they teach it, but there are enough courses out there.

Because my dear Smunkeeville, why rasie wages to get folks who can read, count, and do basic math when you just need to design a register with little pictures that can also tell the person using it what the change is, and what bills need to be given back as change. :p
but she didn't even do my change right.........I had $1.46 in change, that's what the register told her, she gave me $1 3 dimes, 2 nickles, and 8 pennys :headbang: that doesn't even add up, much less it's annoying as all get out. I said give me the dollar and then give me a quarter 2 dimes and a penny, and she said "no that's not right" and then gave me a five, a quarter 2 dimes and 3 pennys :rolleyes:

I almost just walked off with it too, but my kid was there and I didn't want to set a bad example, so I ended up giving her the change back and coming behind the counter and explaining how to count back change and making her a little paper to help

I can imagine how bad it would have been if she hadn't had the little idiot box telling her how much to give me.....

I had a carhop at sonic once.......my total was $3.65 so I gave her a $5 bill and a quarter and a dime, I thought her head was going to explode.........

but she didn't even do my change right.........I had $1.46 in change, that's what the register told her, she gave me $1 3 dimes, 2 nickles, and 8 pennys :headbang: that doesn't even add up, much less it's annoying as all get out. I said give me the dollar and then give me a quarter 2 dimes and a penny, and she said "no that's not right" and then gave me a five, a quarter 2 dimes and 3 pennys :rolleyes:

I almost just walked off with it too, but my kid was there and I didn't want to set a bad example, so I ended up giving her the change back and coming behind the counter and explaining how to count back change and making her a little paper to help

I can imagine how bad it would have been if she hadn't had the little idiot box telling her how much to give me.....

I had a carhop at sonic once.......my total was $3.65 so I gave her a $5 bill and a quarter and a dime, I thought her head was going to explode.........
Wow, the cashiers at my work has to pass a small test that has a small section on change-making. I couldn't imagine how crowded the store would get if every customer had to show the cashier how to make change.

Wow, the cashiers at my work has to pass a small test that has a small section on change-making. I couldn't imagine how crowded the store would get if every customer had to show the cashier how to make change.
I don't think she had ever been expected to make change before, today was the first day that she was at the desk where you buy stuff, and I think she just has never had to figure it out, when I was making her "cheat sheet" she was telling me that at her last job, she just had to count out the paper money and that they had a coin machine that spit out the correct "change". I really felt bad for her, but anyway, after I made her a cheat sheet, I invited her to church and she is planning on coming (she made it tonight, but I didn't because my kids are sick)

I don't think she had ever been expected to make change before, today was the first day that she was at the desk where you buy stuff, and I think she just has never had to figure it out, when I was making her "cheat sheet" she was telling me that at her last job, she just had to count out the paper money and that they had a coin machine that spit out the correct "change".
I wonder when stores stopped teaching the value of five. When I did food service, I was shown a quick and easy method, which is counting to the nearest 5. Once you're there, the rest is very easy.

The US doesn't have a universally terrible education system in math and science. I've heard horror stories, but my experience there was far more positive than it had been at my Canadian high school before. I never ran out of math and science classes to take ... sure, maybe there weren't a huge amount of them *required*, but why make people take more than algebra if they aren't intending to enter a field requiring calculus? For those who were even remotely interested in math/science, the environment was highly encouraging. The biggest nerd in my school was also voted as our graduation speaker. We math/science geeks were respected by parents, teachers, and classmates, which I think made a bigger difference to a lot of people in those classes who wouldn't have been there otherwise than more requirements would have.

The classes have to be available, of course, but the social environment is most critical. If anything, that makes this finding more disturbing.

I don't think she had ever been expected to make change before, today was the first day that she was at the desk where you buy stuff, and I think she just has never had to figure it out, when I was making her "cheat sheet" she was telling me that at her last job, she just had to count out the paper money and that they had a coin machine that spit out the correct "change". I really felt bad for her, but anyway, after I made her a cheat sheet, I invited her to church and she is planning on coming (she made it tonight, but I didn't because my kids are sick)
Some stores do not have change machines. Though you shouldn't need a cheat sheet anyways, this stuff gets covered in grade four or five math and again in grade eight.

Well look at the trends. With manufacturing, and technical jobs ever more frequently being outsourced, and wages held low by ever increasing amounts of H1B visas, why the fuck would anyone spend all the time an energy pursuing jobs in short supply with ever more competition on a slanted playing field?.

For all of the hype about outsourcing, no more than a few hundred thousand jobs have been outsourced in the past decade, and that number is slowing rapidly as the places outsourced to are developing their own industries and consuming their own talent. The IT sector is very healthy, and strongly growing with salaries and opportunities growing again. The outsourcing bogeyman proved to be nonexistent outside of labor intensive manufacturing.

Dont forget that math is used in thousands of occupations outside of IT. Republican policy has had nothing to do with this, and neither has Democratic policy. If anything, the two parties' mismanagement is responsible for the decline.

I wonder when stores stopped teaching the value of five. When I did food service, I was shown a quick and easy method, which is counting to the nearest 5. Once you're there, the rest is very easy.
I tried to explain to her the way that I taught my 4 year old how to make change....

total is $3.47 and then they give you a $5

you need 3 pennys to make 50 cents, that's $3.50
then you need 2 quarters to make $4.00
then $1 to make $5.00

so the change would be $1.53

easy? I thought so, guess not.

Some stores do not have change machines. Though you shouldn't need a cheat sheet anyways, this stuff gets covered in grade four or five math and again in grade eight.
and my point was, that most people don't get out of highschool with basic math skills........and it annoys me.

btw they waited until 4th grade to teach you how to make change?

that's the first thing I taught my kids after they learned to count

it's learn to count to 100
learn to make change
learn to tell time (military)
learn to tell time (standard)


then we started addition and subtraction (which is easier since they know how to make change)

I tried to explain to her the way that I taught my 4 year old how to make change....

total is $3.47 and then they give you a $5

you need 3 pennys to make 50 cents, that's $3.50
then you need 2 quarters to make $4.00
then $1 to make $5.00

so the change would be $1.53

easy? I thought so, guess not.
Exactly, even I can do that and I am soooo not a math person.

oh, so that's why I spent 15 extra minutes at the gym today trying to help the idiot behind the desk count back change from a $5.....because "you don't need math for regular jobs":rolleyes:

I hate people who can't count change, why do they keep getting put on the register wherever I go?

Teaching that person higher level math wouldn't help that. Most of the people I know that are doing well in Calculus and higher math can't do simple arithmetic without a calculator. If we're having problems with people not learning to do simple addition/subtraction/etc and not knowing how to read (which we do), there are problems that need to be addressed that throwing money at math and science can't solve.

But then, you can really trace a lot of problems in education back to problems in economics--poor kids have to drop out to support their families; they don't get the education they need; they have children who have to drop out to support them, etc. It's a deeper problem than poor job training and us getting "beaten" by the Chinese.

The classes have to be available, of course, but the social environment is most critical. If anything, that makes this finding more disturbing.
In most suburban and semi-rural communities, your perceptions about our education system would be correct. Intelligent students are respected by other students, and sometimes revered. However, it is more urban areas where you begin to encounter a stigma attached to intelligence, and there is really nothing we can do about that. We’ve tried throwing money at the problem, which doesn’t work, and the inhabitants of those areas will rarely listen to outsiders.

In most suburban and semi-rural communities, your perceptions about our education system would be correct. Intelligent students are respected by other students, and sometimes revered. However, it is more urban areas where you begin to encounter a stigma attached to intelligence, and there is really nothing we can do about that. We’ve tried throwing money at the problem, which doesn’t work, and the inhabitants of those areas will rarely listen to outsiders.
Like I said, I've heard horror stories, and I know that not all people in the US have my experience. It depends on the state, even the city, that you live in. It is incredibly diverse.

As for the difference between urban/suburban locations, eh, big US cities suck in almost every way, no reason for education to be different.

I certainly think less math and science is in order. To be replaced by courses in politics, philosophy, and humanities

and my point was, that most people don't get out of highschool with basic math skills........and it annoys me.

btw they waited until 4th grade to teach you how to make change?

that's the first thing I taught my kids after they learned to count

it's learn to count to 100
learn to make change
learn to tell time (military)
learn to tell time (standard)


then we started addition and subtraction (which is easier since they know how to make change)
We learn to count
learn to add/subtract
learn to add subtract money
learn to tell time (both at once)
learn to multiply/divide
learn to make change
learn bedmass

I certainly think less math and science is in order. To be replaced by courses in politics, philosophy, and humanities

Personally, I'm better off with the stupid people knowing nothing about the world, so they don't try to debate it.

With manufacturing, and technical jobs ever more frequently being outsourced, and wages held low by ever increasing amounts of H1B visas, why the fuck would anyone spend all the time an energy pursuing jobs in short supply with ever more competition on a slanted playing field?

This is the result of almost 30 years of Republican ideology. We're no longer the nation of engineering from the space age. Potato chips or microchips indeed.

The parents are right, but for the wrong reason. If you learn it the jobs still may not come.

H1B visas have been capped for a few years now (65K) and the congress (I think) shot down a bill proposed to increase the limits. H1B people have to be paid the average salary in the area in that field, else they won't be getting visa.

US industries maybe outsourcing, but they are not losing efficiency and are in no danger of being overtaken by industries from elsewhere. Sure the primacy will erode due to stiff competition from the Indians and the Chinese, but then in an integrated world with MNCs, the nationality of the company will become increasingly irrelevant and misleading.

For ex, a certain Toyota car has more American parts in it than a certain Ford car (dunno which)...so which is the American car here?

Just an example of how the lines are becoming increasingly blurring.

I certainly think less math and science is in order. To be replaced by courses in politics, philosophy, and humanities

The humanities don't cure cancer, or solve the world's energy demands, or allow us the free time to pursue them in the first place. Science and mathematics do, and that's why they are so important. A society that neglects math and science is a society that stagnates and dies, and it's culture is drug down with it.

We learn to count
learn to add/subtract
learn to add subtract money
learn to tell time (both at once)
learn to multiply/divide
learn to make change
learn bedmass
hmm, interesting.

I teach my kids from a hands on perspective, it's how they learn, addition and subtraction can be so abstract, holding coins, making change, learning how numbers work, it seems to have helped them grasp things better than sitting through drills of 1+1=2,2+2=4......

I teach my kids from a hands on perspective, it's how they learn, addition and subtraction can be so abstract, holding coins, making change, learning how numbers work, it seems to have helped them grasp things better than sitting through drills of 1+1=2,2+2=4......

It's different for different people. For example, I have no problem with remembering or using abstract concepts, forumlae and definitions, while others simply can't work without some kind of visual or written aid. It all boils down to individual preference, I suppose.

It's different for different people. For example, I have no problem with remembering or using abstract concepts, forumlae and definitions, while others simply can't work without some kind of visual or written aid. It all boils down to individual preference, I suppose.
yeah. I guess my kids are hands on learners.

oh, so that's why I spent 15 extra minutes at the gym today trying to help the idiot behind the desk count back change from a $5.....because "you don't need math for regular jobs":rolleyes:

I hate people who can't count change, why do they keep getting put on the register wherever I go?

Because there's a secret conspiracy by the ignorant to phase out all intellectual requirments for jobs, thereby giving them access.

Well, apparently parents and students don't.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060215/ap_on_sc/science_math

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this one, I really don't.

Actually our biggest problem is literacy, which is required to perform well in ALL other course-work (including math and science).

I am definitely sending my kids to private school - it is just silly.

I currently have my kids in a day care/preschool. The elementary schools in my town complain to the day care that they are teaching them too much! Apparently, knowing the alphabet, numbers and reading words is a no-no for the kids who move on to kindergarten and first grade from the preschool. The state (NJ) comes into the day-care and tells them to take down the US Flag and the alphabet and number posters! The day care has refused to do it and that is why I am there.
NJ is rated #1 in the number of students who advance to college and is high ranking in many educational stats. If the regulations are that bad here - think about the rest of the country.

Well, apparently parents and students don't.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060215/ap_on_sc/science_math

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this one, I really don't.
They're so damn right about it! Science, and especially math, is far too overestimated! :rolleyes:
While I can still see that some science lessons still have a little purpose, the vast majority of math lessons are totally pointless and won't ever be used again by most students, so there's really no point in forcing it down everyone's throats! :mad:
Rather than wasting the time with this math crap, the time should be used to teach the students the languages and cultures of other countries, which is a great deal more important, especially now in this time of globalisation!

Actually our biggest problem is literacy, which is required to perform well in ALL other course-work (including math and science).
Damn right! The spelling of a lot of American middle- and high school students, as well as still a lot of university students, is still a major catastrophe! They should better see that they fix this!

I am definitely sending my kids to private school - it is just silly.

I currently have my kids in a day care/preschool. The elementary schools in my town complain to the day care that they are teaching them too much! Apparently, knowing the alphabet, numbers and reading words is a no-no for the kids who move on to kindergarten and first grade from the preschool. The state (NJ) comes into the day-care and tells them to take down the US Flag and the alphabet and number posters! The day care has refused to do it and that is why I am there.
NJ is rated #1 in the number of students who advance to college and is high ranking in many educational stats. If the regulations are that bad here - think about the rest of the country.

hooray for new jersey! we're f*cking retarded!

i go to catholic school in nj. coming from 8 yrs of public school, it was a shock. but not as much as grammar.
we talked about things i had never heard of that were basic grammar principles.
apparantly, at my old school, you're not going to college so why do you need grammar?
now though, enlightened, public school problems can be summed up in a few words:

lowering the bar doesn't make everything better

no child left behind lowers the bar unitl everyone passes. i got 99th percentile on their standardized tests.
people think they're doing well and therefore think we don't need anything else.

scores sucked a few years ago. now, since the bar was lowered scores are suddenly passing! :rolleyes:

(this pervades this admin; recruiting numbers, anyone?:rolleyes: )

I am definitely sending my kids to private school - it is just silly.

I currently have my kids in a day care/preschool. The elementary schools in my town complain to the day care that they are teaching them too much! Apparently, knowing the alphabet, numbers and reading words is a no-no for the kids who move on to kindergarten and first grade from the preschool. The state (NJ) comes into the day-care and tells them to take down the US Flag and the alphabet and number posters! The day care has refused to do it and that is why I am there.
NJ is rated #1 in the number of students who advance to college and is high ranking in many educational stats. If the regulations are that bad here - think about the rest of the country.
yep. My local school district is not "allowed" to give a child a grade lower than a D........

and they gave me crap because my kid could read at age 4 :rolleyes: someone actually told me "if you teach her all this now what is she going to do when she is in 7th grade and she knows everything" and gave me a lecture about how "intelligent people don't fit in, so try to slow her down so she will have friends"
:mad:

yep. My local school district is not "allowed" to give a child a grade lower than a D........

and they gave me crap because my kid could read at age 4 :rolleyes: someone actually told me "if you teach her all this now what is she going to do when she is in 7th grade and she knows everything" and gave me a lecture about how "intelligent people don't fit in, so try to slow her down so she will have friends"
:mad:

that's the whole lower the bar so everyone can get to a diploma.
when she knows everything she'll be your boss ya b*tch

yep. My local school district is not "allowed" to give a child a grade lower than a D........

and they gave me crap because my kid could read at age 4 :rolleyes: someone actually told me "if you teach her all this now what is she going to do when she is in 7th grade and she knows everything" and gave me a lecture about how "intelligent people don't fit in, so try to slow her down so she will have friends"
:mad:

I have actually been considering homeschooling because of your comments Smunkeeville. My town supposedly has a "great" school system but great compared to what?

Is having friends the main point of school? I admit to favoring private school for the socialization but to "slow her down so she will have friends" is the stupidest thing I've heard. That is like a sales manager telling their best producer to slow down because you are making the others look bad. It is unfathomable.

that's the whole lower the bar so everyone can get to a diploma.
when she knows everything she'll be your boss ya b*tch
I countered with "what the heck do you mean "know everything" nobody can know everything, she will just keep learning, there is always something to learn"

I countered with "what the heck do you mean "know everything" nobody can know everything, she will just keep learning, there is always something to learn"You're a very nice person. I would've stuck two fingers down my throat & vomited on the person. It's the only thing that can really do such a comment justice, in my opinion.

In the unlikely event I ever have children, I'll merrily sell my organs, if it means I can afford private education.

Is having friends the main point of school? I admit to favoring private school for the socialization but to "slow her down so she will have friends" is the stupidest thing I've heard. That is like a sales manager telling their best producer to slow down because you are making the others look bad. It is unfathomable.
apparently having friends is the only point to public school, because whenever people find out I homeschool they ask "how do you socialize your kids?" and I ask "what do you mean socialize?"

seriously what does that mean? They know how to be around people, they have friends, they can carry on a conversation, what do public school kids do that's so "social"? pass notes in class? put chalk in the teacher's eraser? give smaller children swirlies??? what??

Some stores do not have change machines. Though you shouldn't need a cheat sheet anyways, this stuff gets covered in grade four or five math and again in grade eight.

Don't be so hard on her. Basic math isn't gone over after you graduate elementary school, and in the higher levels people rely on calculators to do simple math. It's difficult to suddenly try to recall shit you were scribbling down on a piece of paper in third grade, when you haven't used the pencil-and-paper method since then. On top of that, there's the pressure of being quick and trying -not- to look incredibly stupid. Putting her on the spot like that was probably really embarassing for her, especially if there was a line behind you.

Example:

I recently applied to a job at Harris Teeter. They make you take two tests there, one on the phone (about random crap like "would you steal, etc") and the other about math. I was confronted with something I hadn't realized - It's literally been years since I did pencil-and-paper multiplication. I'd really forgotten how to do it. I felt ashamed and embarassed sitting there in front of a computer screen trying to use my scratch paper, taking up half the page for that one question, hoping something would eventually click in my head that would trigger me to remember. I felt small and retarded. It was the most depressed I'd gotten in years, all over this stupid problem.

Call me stupid if you want - I did.

Also, nobody ever tells you in school that people give weird amounts of change so they don't have to carry certain coins around. You're always taught people will give you a bill and you give the difference, which is simple enough. But a bill plus two quarters and three pennies, and I'm just looking at the guy going "... What kind of change are you looking for? You've given me many options." He just looks at me like I'm stupid and goes "Gimme a quarter, five nickles and a dime."

The thing is, there's a lot of people like that. The first time that happened to me, I was about to give someone their change of 75cents, three quarters. Suddenly the person goes "Oh, wait, I have a quarter." And I just stand there, stunned. I'm thinking "... You have three more coming to you, though..." And she gives me a quarter. My mind is boggled. She's giving -me- money when I owe her change. What type of person is this? She had to tell me she preferred to carry dollars around instead of change. So I gave her a dollar. Point is, it scared the crap out of me, because there was a line behind her, and at the same time I'm attacking my brain because I think it knows something and it's not telling me - "You were taught this in school, weren't you!" "No, I swear!" *smack* "Don't you lie to me, bitch! She's giving -us- change! Something's up, and I want answers!" "I don't know anything, I promise!"

... I have an overactive imagination.

Regardless. Don't be so hard on people who have a hard time with change. Until you get some actual experience behind a register, it seems a lot easier than it really is. You can do the math in your head just fine when it's just you, but everybody's watching you while you're sitting there counting, and you have to make the decision of whether or not to recount to make sure or hope it was right and give it to her so you can breathe again.


If someone had told me this story before I started working a register, I would've assumed the person was mentally retarded. That they really did have a medical problem. I'm sure many of you are doing the same thing. Some will continue to, while ignoring me, and continue to get angry at people who take more than five seconds while figuring out how much change to give you.

Who gives a shit what the parents and the students want taught? If that were the way teaching was decided, we'd all be learning tons of useless tradeskills and all sorts of weird religious nonsense.