NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just wondering if anyone had watched this BBC program which was aired in janurary last year, and I think it got screened at Cannes as well.

In the past our politicians offered us dreams of a better world. Now they promise to protect us from nightmares.

The most frightening of these is the threat of an international terror network. But just as the dreams were not true, neither are these nightmares.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm

As a whole I agreed with the program, but then I'm very ideational in my approach.

So this program is suggesting that the war on terror is basically a big conservative conspiracy to control the world?

How dreadfully original.

Actually its fascinating, not the least for its background on Wolfowitz, Perle and co. Some of it would be hilarious, if it wasnt true.

Actually its fascinating, not the least for its background on Wolfowitz, Perle and co. Some of it would be hilarious, if it wasnt true.
Yep, I was glued to it. Still got it taped on VHS somewhere, but there's no plans for a DVD release due to copyright issues.:(

It traces the roots of islamism and neo-conservatism back to the failures of liberal america. It suggests that deep down they are very similar ideologies, and perhaps becoming mutually dependent.
eg. communitarian aspects, a religious base, an external enemy to fear and ideational.

edit: heh, I have it on DVD and so does my lecturer. c_c

An amazing series. Fucking frightening though.

So this program is suggesting that the war on terror is basically a big conservative conspiracy to control the world?
That's basically what neo-conservatism was based on. Creating fear to gain power.

The bit were the neo-cons are seeking to villify the Soviets in Regans era was scary as well. They asked the CIA to find something on the Soviets... they can back with nothing. So the neo-cons presented them with a book which documented evidence that Soviets were remilitarizing. The CIA then proceded to tell them there and then that they had made up this 'evidence' to blacken the Soviets name 10 years earlier.

Yep, I was glued to it. Still got it taped on VHS somewhere, but there's no plans for a DVD release due to copyright issues.:(
I'll bet it is being torrented somewhere, if you have the bandwidth/desire.

The bit were the neo-cons are seeking to villify the Soviets in Regans era was scary as well. They asked the CIA to find something on the Soviets... they can back with nothing. So the neo-cons presented them with a book which documented evidence that Soviets were remilitarizing. The CIA then proceded to tell them there and then that they had made up this 'evidence' to blacken the Soviets name 10 years earlier.

Not only that...but when presented with the CIA telling them this, the neo-cons refused to believe it. That was the genius twist in the tale.

Yeah, I was trying to figure out how to say that, but my brain was out for lunch. All I could think of were these sentences that sounded weak and self-destructive to my arguement. So I left it out.

Still, I wonder what the program maker thinks now, considering the event that happened 5 months later.

Yeah, I was trying to figure out how to say that, but my brain was out for lunch. All I could think of were these sentences that sounded weak and self-destructive to my arguement. So I left it out.

Still, I wonder what the program maker thinks now, considering the event that happened 5 months later.

Probably what he thought then - "there is a danger from terrorism, but that politicians are blowing it up (bad pun) out of all proportion to justify taking civil liberties being eroded and more and more power accruing to them"

Hmm... yes, it's wonderful tool for politicians. Brown was talking about the security forces foiling 3 terrorist plots since July, but couldn't tell us any more because that would be letting the terrorists (and us), what they actually know. Nada.

You can get them here:

http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

Hmm... yes, it's wonderful tool for politicians. Brown was talking about the security forces foiling 3 terrorist plots since July, but couldn't tell us any more because that would be letting the terrorists (and us), what they actually know. Nada.

I do wonder how much they believe it...the scary thing about the neo-cons on the show seemed to be they believed their own bullshit. And that, in my eyes, is truly terrifying. Not to invoke Godwin's law or anything, but give me a fat old corrupt figure like Goering who goes along with things for realpolitik reasons over a swivel-eyed fanatic who denies reason like Heydrich or Himmler any day...

Perhaps. You couldn't trust Goering, it would have made him unreliable and dangerous. Whereas with Himmler, well, you could trust him to act the same way over and over again.

I once dreamed of being at the Boston Aquarium and tieing an ancher to my brothers feet and throwing him in with all the pretty fishies. *splash*

Perhaps. You couldn't trust Goering, it would have made him unreliable and dangerous. Whereas with Himmler, well, you could trust him to act the same way over and over again.

You could have trusted Goering to do whatever it took to hold on to power, wealth and personal privilige...you could have trusted the other two to do whatever it took to ATTAIN THEIR IDEOLOGICAL DREAM.

Thing is, i think most neo-con's in this are Himmlers (note, no Godwins, just for the sake of comparison in this discussion)...and i think Bush is most definitely a Goering.

You could have trusted Goering to do whatever it took to hold on to power, wealth and personal privilige...you could have trusted the other two to do whatever it took to ATTAIN THEIR IDEOLOGICAL DREAM.

Thing is, i think most neo-con's in this are Himmlers (note, no Godwins, just for the sake of comparison in this discussion)...and i think Bush is most definitely a Goering.
Remembers a scene from a film... yes. You can trust a thief to stab you in the back when it suits his purposes, but you don't know when an idealistic man will lose faith in his ideals and turn on you.

Remembers a scene from a film... yes. You can trust a thief to stab you in the back when it suits his purposes, but you don't know when an idealistic man will lose faith in his ideals and turn on you.There's more to it than that.

However vile a rational person may be, you can at least count on him to be rational. Irrational fanatics are just that - irrational. That's what makes them so bloody creepy. You never know just what fancy will take a hold of them.

You can get them here:

http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
good man.

d/ling