NationStates Jolt Archive


Oh, that San Francisco City Supervisor

Deep Kimchi
15-02-2006, 19:44
Taking a page from The Nazz and Silli, I decided to watch some Fox, to see what all the fuss was about.

So, I watched some Hannity and Colmes online. The show is about as newsworthy as Geraldo Rivera, but the San Francisco City Supervisor said some things that were really amusing.

Apparently, he doesn't think that the US needs a military, and that cops can defend the US against invasion.

Both Hannity and Colmes had some faux outrage, and were probably glad that their guest had said something so patently ignorant.

I can see being opposed to having a battleship parked at your city waterfront. Hey, not putting up memorials to servicemen (especially those from WW II) is now the big trend in the US.

But saying the US should have no military? While pacifism is an honorable long term goal, it just doesn't strike me as a prudent idea in today's wacky world.

And to assume that "cops" can defend the US against invasion is pretty stupid.

Not saying that Hannity and Colmes are smart, or make good viewing - the show struck me as the political version of Jerry Springer - except that instead of ignorant trailer park trash saying outrageous things, the show features carefully selected liberals who are certain to say something that sounds really, really stupid.

No wonder some of you get so worked up.

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: As we continue "Hannity & Colmes" from San Francisco tonight, the board of supervisors here overwhelmingly voted to reject a plan last year that would bring the historic World War II Iowa battleship right here to San Francisco harbor, as a museum and tourist center.

We're now joined by one of the supervisors that voted against that plan, Gerardo Sandoval is with us.

Welcome to the show. You just said something to me as we were coming on the air. You don't want a symbol of war in the harbor. Is what you said to me.

GERARDO SANDOVAL, MEMBER OF SAN FRANCISCO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: That's right.

HANNITY: I guess this is just a difference in philosophy. That symbol of war that beat back the forces of fascism in imperial Japan and Nazism, that's really a symbol of peace. Why would you see it as a symbol of war when it defended liberty and freedom?

SANDOVAL: Well, it did do that. But also, it's a warship and it's got guns on it. It fires things. You know, you can't deny what it is.

San Francisco is where we signed the United Nations charter, the original charter, created the United Nations. There are many, many ways to honor veterans and their sacrifice.

HANNITY: I understand that. But you don't have liberty and freedom unless we win that war.

SANDOVAL: Absolutely.

HANNITY: So in that scene — well, then why would you dishonor the men that fought on that ship and preserved your freedom? To say what you want to say?

SANDOVAL: We don't want to dishonor them.

HANNITY: Well, you are dishonoring them.

SANDOVAL: We just don't want to put a 10-story gun on the waterfront where everybody is going to be looking at it every single day.

HANNITY: That gun gives you freedom. That gun ensures your liberty. That gun made this world a safer place.

SANDOVAL: But it could be a flag. It could be a statue. It could be many, many different things.

HANNITY: But is war against the Nazis a good thing? Is war against imperial Japan when they attacked Pearl Harbor, is that a good thing?

SANDOVAL: Well, sometimes you have to resort to violence.

HANNITY: No, no, no. Is war — was war against the Nazis a good thing?

SANDOVAL: Absolutely.

HANNITY: Was war against imperial Japan a good thing?

SANDOVAL: Absolutely. We don't have to put a bomb or a warship right on the waterfront. It's going to be 10 stories tall. You know how tall that is? It's half as big as some of the biggest buildings in San Francisco.

HANNITY: You know something? I guess this is just a philosophical difference. Because you know what? I define peace as the ability to defend ourselves. And you seem to look at that as ship as something negative, not something to be proud of. Not something that gave you a great gift. I don't understand that mentality. Can you explain it to our audience?

SANDOVAL: Well, it's also a fiscal issue not just a symbolic or philosophical.

HANNITY: Yes, hurt that's not the reason. Because a lot of people say it's about money. If I told you the money would be there tomorrow, you would still be against it, wouldn't you?

SANDOVAL: We would still be against it. That's right.

HANNITY: So it's not about money, but you're using it as an excuse.

SANDOVAL: No, no, no. But it's a very real reason. In Oakland right across the bay here, where they brought in the USS — one of the wood...

HANNITY: Would you have the freedom to vote this way, had we not used that ship, that symbol of war as you call it, if we had not won that war? Would you have the ability to even make this vote without that ship?

SANDOVAL: Things would be very, very different. No doubt. But that does not mean we have to put a warship on our waterfront.

HANNITY: Warship? Why don't you call it a peace ship? The peace ship gave you the liberty to be who you are today?

SANDOVAL: Why don't we paint war symbols on all schools if that's the way you feel? So we can honor their sacrifice.

HANNITY: I rarely agree with Dianne Feinstein. And she even says this is not the San Francisco that I know. This is — and I guess this is the mentality. Do you think America should unilaterally disarm? Should we give up our weaponry and our war — our tools of war?

SANDOVAL: You know, that's a very complicated question. But I would say yes, we should. We should invest our money in our kids.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: This is Alan in New York. Should we not have military?

SANDOVAL: I don't think we should have a military. Absolutely.

COLMES: We shouldn't have a military? Wait a minute. Hold on. The United States should not have a military?

SANDOVAL: What good has it done for us in the last five years? That's right. What good has it done us...

HANNITY: Good grief.

SANDOVAL: ... in the last five years.

COLMES: Gerardo, wait a second.

SANDOVAL: We think about the billions that we're spending in Iraq right now, if we spend it on schools. We should not...

COLMES: The United States should not have a military?

SANDOVAL: That's correct.

COLMES: Are you kidding me?

SANDOVAL: The United States should not have a military. All in all, we would be in much, much, much better shape.

COLMES: You've got to be kidding me. We should have no military, we should have no ability to defend ourselves, we should have no armed forces in this country?

SANDOVAL: Well, we shouldn't have a military that goes abroad and starts wars.

COLMES: You just said we shouldn't have a military. I don't want to give — I'm speaking out very forcefully to you, because I don't want to give the impression that Democrats hate the military or don't want a military. We may disagree with certain wars, like the ones fought now.

SANDOVAL: No, but you said should we give up.

COLMES: But to say that we shouldn't have a military is absolutely absurd. It's incredible. That's a ridiculous fringe point of view.

HANNITY: That's exactly what I was thinking, Alan. Welcome to San Francisco.

SANDOVAL: If you're saying that we don't have a right to defend ourselves that's different from we shouldn't have a military.

COLMES: What do you want to defend ourselves — what do you want to defend ourselves with?

SANDOVAL: Well, you got cops. It's called the Coast Guard. There's lots of things different.

COLMES: You want to send cops to defend our shores if we're attacked? You want to send cops overseas if we're attacked? Cops?

SANDOVAL: You want to send people abroad to start these wars.

COLMES: I don't. Actually, Gerardo, you don't know anything about what I stand for if you can say that. I've been one of the most outspoken people against this administration and the war in Iraq.

But that doesn't mean we as Democrats hate the military or don't want to defend this country. And I'm amaze you could get on national television and say we shouldn't have a military in America?

SANDOVAL: Well, that's the way I think a lot of people feel here in San Francisco.

HANNITY: I've got to tell you, this is a first. You made look Alan look like a hawk.

I'm going to tell you something. If America is attacked, you have no defenses. You have no liberty. You have no freedom. You can't think in such a shallow way. You've got to tell me that this is a joke.

SANDOVAL: No, no. Not at all. I think that what you look at where you want America to go, I mean America has got hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years to go.

HANNITY: Without a military, there is no America. Without — it's not a disagreement. It's a fact.

SANDOVAL: We can imagine an America that someday will not have a military. It might take 1,000 years.

HANNITY: OK. And then when Iran bombs you...

SANDOVAL: But that's what you've got to hope for.

HANNITY: Or when al Qaeda attacks you, what are you going to do?
Lunatic Goofballs
15-02-2006, 20:00
I tried watching that show once during one of my breaks at work; I ended up yelling at the television; "Who the hell CARES what you think?!? You're a freakin' reporter!"

I really don't give a rat's ass what Hannity and Colmes think. If they want a real debate, I think they should bring on someone that matters to debate their guests. What the hell kind of 'news' is that?
Megaloria
15-02-2006, 20:01
If Steven Seagal was one of those cops, it would work.
THE LOST PLANET
15-02-2006, 20:02
Well I don't think we need a ten story chunk of metal on the SF waterfront either, whether it's called a warship or a peaceship. A battleship is only beautiful on the open sea.

As for the crack about not needing a military, it did get me thinking. Maybe eventually all we'll need is a reserve and a national guard.


Those seem to be the guys we're sending to fight these days anyways...
Free Soviets
15-02-2006, 20:16
i suppose it would be wrong of me to point out that the deified founding fathers weren't keen on having a standing military either.
IDF
15-02-2006, 20:45
The next time a major earthquake destroys San Francisco, we shouldn't send the military in to save the people. Save the people in surround cities like Oakland, but not SF. Then maybe they will appreciate the importance of our military.

The USS MISSOURI deserves a nice final home. Money shouldn't be an issue. The MISSOURI will generate tourist dollars for the city. I would pay to see her and stand on the spot where the Japanese surrendered to Admiral Chester Nimitz. I mean the city has the USS Pampanino on the waterfront.

Oh and the ship in Oakland is the USS Hornet (CV-12.) I have been aboard her. She is a beautiful ship. She is currently at the exact same berthing place where her predecessor, USS Hornet (CV-8) was loaded with the B-25 Mitchell bombers for Doolittle's raid on Tokyo.
Biotopia
15-02-2006, 21:10
I hate American talkshows, they're so badly unproffesional. You're a JOURNALIST not a COLUMNIST. I don't want to or need to know your opinion.
Silliopolous
15-02-2006, 21:19
Yep, Hannity and Combs have made their careers out of cherrypicking the worst of the left to interview, and passing it off as the mainstream view of Democrats. It lets them score cheap points, but hardly advances any meaningful dialog between the parties.

It is the equivalent of Air america deciding to only ever interviewing Pat Robertson, Bill O'Reilly, Rush, etc.


I mean, there's a place for trash TV I suppose. But not on something purporting itself to be News.

Or "Fair and Balanced"...
IDF
15-02-2006, 21:25
I hate American talkshows, they're so badly unproffesional. You're a JOURNALIST not a COLUMNIST. I don't want to or need to know your opinion.
There is a difference between a journalists and anylists. The talkshow hosts tend to be the former. They aren't reporting the news. They are giving opinions and debating guests who have a different one.
Free Soviets
15-02-2006, 21:30
i suppose it would be wrong of me to point out that the deified founding fathers weren't keen on having a standing military either.

worse than wrong it seems - unmentionable
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
15-02-2006, 21:57
worse than wrong it seems - unmentionable
What? Just because no one fires off a response within an hour we're oppressin' j00? Do you really need conversation that badly?
Anyway, the world changes, evolving documents, words aren't the same, different era, blah, blah, blah.
Free Soviets
15-02-2006, 22:16
What? Just because no one fires off a response within an hour we're oppressin' j00?

within the hour is fine. but i'll have you know that it was an hour and 14 minutes. a man can only be expected to wait so long.
Straughn
16-02-2006, 03:05
Taking a page from The Nazz and Silli, I decided to watch some Fox, to see what all the fuss was about.

So, I watched some Hannity and Colmes online. The show is about as newsworthy as Geraldo Rivera, but the San Francisco City Supervisor said some things that were really amusing.

Apparently, he doesn't think that the US needs a military, and that cops can defend the US against invasion.

Both Hannity and Colmes had some faux outrage, and were probably glad that their guest had said something so patently ignorant.

I can see being opposed to having a battleship parked at your city waterfront. Hey, not putting up memorials to servicemen (especially those from WW II) is now the big trend in the US.

But saying the US should have no military? While pacifism is an honorable long term goal, it just doesn't strike me as a prudent idea in today's wacky world.

And to assume that "cops" can defend the US against invasion is pretty stupid.

Not saying that Hannity and Colmes are smart, or make good viewing - the show struck me as the political version of Jerry Springer - except that instead of ignorant trailer park trash saying outrageous things, the show features carefully selected liberals who are certain to say something that sounds really, really stupid.

No wonder some of you get so worked up.
I think i'm impressed, International Poster of Mystery. No one seems to be jumping your sh*t on this one. Good post. *bows*
Sdaeriji
16-02-2006, 03:16
Let's all count the number of times Hannity spoke in that little exchange, and the number of times Colmes spoke. That's always fun.

21 to 11

That's the Hannity and Colmes show for you.
The Black Forrest
16-02-2006, 03:19
The Iowa? Wasn't that back in August? Why are those two stupid asses talking about it now?

The board is retarded as they forgot the sub pens in Alameda and hmm what's on Treasure Island?.....

Stupid as they are; it's not a new thing.

I think it was back in the Regan Presidency, they wanted the Iowa (or was it the Missouri?) stationed there. It would have meant a great many jobs for support and money from the naval people that would have to live in area.

It was shot down because it might make San Francisco a missile target!

I forget the report/interviewers reply "I hate to tell you this but the city is already a target"

"Oh but this will make us more of a target"

Not exact but you get the meaning.

*Sigh* many people were pissed at the decission.....
Wyfind
16-02-2006, 03:22
;_;

That guy sucks.

San Francisco is cool. I live it in. He makes me sad to be San Franciscan which is bad because San Francisco is awesome, ahah. :P
Silliopolous
16-02-2006, 03:25
Besides, I never get worked up ablut Fox as the OP suggests.

I simply take the time when presented with a regular Fox viewer to pat him on the head, patiently explain to them what real news is (taking care to use short words so as not to confuse them), and hope that eventually they grow up enough to understand the difference...


I'm not terribly hopefull in many cases, but if I can reach just ONE - it will have all been worth it.

:D
Neu Leonstein
16-02-2006, 03:26
Hmm, no military at all is probably a stupid idea - but you don't need to spend 400 billion dollars on it. Maybe that was his point?

As for an invasion...who's going to invade you? I guess a defence would be possible at any rate if you did it like the Japanese and their special "police" units.
Undelia
16-02-2006, 03:37
within the hour is fine. but i'll have you know that it was an hour and 14 minutes. a man can only be expected to wait so long.
Sorry to keep you waiting.:D

Having a standing military has done exactly what the founding fathers thought it would do if one was created. The people are no longer capable of overthrowing the government; it isn’t even an option.

Also, what’s with this bull shit about WW2 being for freedom and liberty? We (the US) had no reason to become involved. The only reason Japan attacked us is because FDR provoked them almost outright, and the Nazis had a low opinion of us because we broke neutrality by supplying the allies. American involvement in WW2 was only to fulfill FDR’s neo-imperialist vision for the world.

He succeeded in his goal, of course, but I am comforted by the fact that polio made sure that he never saw the results of his misdeeds.